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Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] soapstone - preceramic times

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  • mike white
    also see about mica, i had no idea that the pyramid of the sun at teotihuacan [sic], has a facing of mica a foot thick. mica stores electricity, and is used
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 28, 2007
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         also see about mica, i had no idea that the pyramid of the sun at teotihuacan [sic], has a facing of mica a foot thick.  mica stores electricity, and is used as capacitors for storing electricity today.  it was known and used by the moundbuilders, alternating layers of tombs with mica and white quartz, also having electrical properties.  they had a profound understanding of these things it seems. 
       
       
      mike
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 12:20 AM
      Subject: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] soapstone - preceramic times

      

       
         we have touched upon those mysterious times before pottery was in use, and were somewhat perplexed how such cultures that could produce fine stone monuments, could fail to invent pottery. 
         we mentioned how some high cultures in ancient times used precious metals instead of pottery.  further, we have lesser cultures using basketry and hot stones to cook.  it was brought up how wonderfully gourds and calabashes served the place of pottery, even down to modern times in columbia and ecuador. 
       
         i want to emphasize an often overlooked great invention of the ancients, in widespread use in archaic times, pre 5000 bce.  i speak of the knowledge of the amazing heat properties of soapstone, steatite, and serpentine.  it absorbed heat, and relleased it slowly, evening distributing heat, and keeping food warm after heat was removed.  it was used in pipes, cooking pots, bed warmers, and cooking slab.  harder varieties still line the best fireplaces and woodstoves.  its the perfect choice for solar heating applications.  heat treating at high temp hardens some soapstone for places where a harder surface is needed. 
         there is a great quarry in yancey county, nc, that was mined by the ancients, to obtain beautiful blue soapstone.  one can still see where bowl forms were removed long ago, and ancient stone tool caches are found. 
       
       
        i have a need for slabs of the blue soapstone for my western wall of the lower level.  just with blocks now it warms up lots from the afternoon sun, adding heat downstairs, so its doesnt fall below 64 degrees year-round, with no external heat going.  the blue soapstone would look better and out-perform the blocks, and the bricks around my fireplace.  im afraid to ask the cost for delivery and installation, even though im not far from the quarry.  im spoiled by low china costs. 
         knowing the best use of the various trees and stones was high wisdom among the ancients, and rightly so.  consider the wonderful properties of bentonite clay.  its miraculous as a sealer for waterproofing underground homes and basements.  it expands greatly with contact of water, self plugging leaks. 
       
      mike
       
       


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    • Terry J. Deveau
      ... Mica doesn t store electricity, no more so than air, plastic, or paper, which are also used in capacitors. It is the parallel metal plates in the capacitor
      Message 2 of 12 , May 2 4:01 AM
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        > mica stores electricity, and is used as capacitors for storing
        > electricity today.

        Mica doesn't store electricity, no more so than air, plastic, or paper,
        which are also used in capacitors. It is the parallel metal plates in
        the capacitor that store the electric charge. The dialectric material
        (such as mica) that keeps the oppositely charged plates apart, and
        prevents them from shorting out, can be any non-conductive material.
        Some dialectric materials are slightly better than others, depending
        upon the application. Mica has ceratin advantages in some applications.
        However, just hunks of mica, without being sandwiched between parallel
        metal plates, have no noteworthy electrical properties.

        Terry
      • mike white
        likewise, parallel metal plates do not store electricity. i included an article to explain the physical characteristics of mica, which is composed of parallel
        Message 3 of 12 , May 2 6:26 AM
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             likewise, parallel metal plates do not store electricity.  i included an article to explain the physical characteristics of mica, which is composed of parallel sheets. 
             terry, are you an electrical engineer?  my career of 33.5 years was as electrician, and in electrical engineering.  by itself i cannot say mica will or will not accept a charge on its parallel sheets. 
             it is certainly singular that the ancients gathered and used two minerals such as mica and quartz, which do have specific uses with electricity, as i said. 
           
          mike
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:01 AM
          Subject: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Mica

          > mica stores electricity, and is used as capacitors for storing
          > electricity today.

          Mica doesn't store electricity, no more so than air, plastic, or paper,
          which are also used in capacitors. It is the parallel metal plates in
          the capacitor that store the electric charge. The dialectric material
          (such as mica) that keeps the oppositely charged plates apart, and
          prevents them from shorting out, can be any non-conductive material.
          Some dialectric materials are slightly better than others, depending
          upon the application. Mica has ceratin advantages in some applications.
          However, just hunks of mica, without being sandwiched between parallel
          metal plates, have no noteworthy electrical properties.

          Terry


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        • Rick Osmon
          Mike, I almost answered the same as Terry, but then I realized that it is the dielectric that is the key part of a capacitor. Two metal plates with a gap in a
          Message 4 of 12 , May 2 7:34 AM
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            Mike,

            I almost answered the same as Terry, but then I realized that it is
            the dielectric that is the key part of a capacitor. Two metal plates
            with a gap in a vacuum will still act as a capacitor, but it is much
            less efficient than with a high dielectric gap. Mica makes a decent
            insulator for flat areas, such as insulating heat sinks behind a power
            transistor.

            The piezo nature of quartz coupled to the mica is an interesting
            combination for a culture that "we" have always thought of as brutish
            and ignorant of physics (disregarding astronomical alignments,
            archetectural mastery, hydrological engineering of whole countrysides,
            and advanced surgical techniques).

            There is another very interesting and unique characteristic of mica:
            it "channels" light by wavelength. The thickness of the individual
            sheet of mica is directly related to the wavelength of light that it
            transmits most efficiently. It was used in woodstoves as the "peek"
            window material for over a century because it withstands the
            temperatures without warping or shattering. Today, it is used in high
            tech laser and optical systems for its wavelength selectivity.

            Oz

            --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com, "mike white"
            <infoplz@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > likewise, parallel metal plates do not store electricity. i
            included an article to explain the physical characteristics of mica,
            which is composed of parallel sheets.
            > terry, are you an electrical engineer? my career of 33.5 years
            was as electrician, and in electrical engineering. by itself i cannot
            say mica will or will not accept a charge on its parallel sheets.
            > it is certainly singular that the ancients gathered and used two
            minerals such as mica and quartz, which do have specific uses with
            electricity, as i said.
            >
            > mike
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Terry J. Deveau
            > To: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:01 AM
            > Subject: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Mica
            >
            >
            > > mica stores electricity, and is used as capacitors for storing
            > > electricity today.
            >
            > Mica doesn't store electricity, no more so than air, plastic, or
            paper,
            > which are also used in capacitors. It is the parallel metal plates in
            > the capacitor that store the electric charge. The dialectric material
            > (such as mica) that keeps the oppositely charged plates apart, and
            > prevents them from shorting out, can be any non-conductive material.
            > Some dialectric materials are slightly better than others, depending
            > upon the application. Mica has ceratin advantages in some
            applications.
            > However, just hunks of mica, without being sandwiched between
            parallel
            > metal plates, have no noteworthy electrical properties.
            >
            > Terry
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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            >
            > No virus found in this incoming message.
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          • mike white
            well-said oz, i tried to not speak in technical language, until my words were rudely refuted. mica is nature s most superb dielectric material. a dielectric
            Message 5 of 12 , May 2 7:57 AM
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                 well-said oz, i tried to not speak in technical language, until my words were rudely refuted.  mica is nature's most superb dielectric material.  a dielectric placed in an electrical field has an affinity to draw negative ions to one surface, and positive ions to the opposite side.  the metal plates merely serve to carry off the charge, via conductors.  im inclined to think that raw mica placed on a pyramid, if the cleavage was oriented parallel to the surface it was applied to, would charge positive to one side, and collect a negative charge to the other. 
                 its the same principle carried to a higher level that is used in ancient temples in asia.  they have copper spirals on the roofs that draw charges from the air, impart a holiness to the temple in its atomic vibrations.  it would be much more efficient if the roof was made of mica, which has a natural affinity to separate the charges, not possessed by paper, plastic, air, or metal. 
               
              mike
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 10:34 AM
              Subject: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: Mica

              Mike,

              I almost answered the same as Terry, but then I realized that it is
              the dielectric that is the key part of a capacitor. Two metal plates
              with a gap in a vacuum will still act as a capacitor, but it is much
              less efficient than with a high dielectric gap. Mica makes a decent
              insulator for flat areas, such as insulating heat sinks behind a power
              transistor.

              The piezo nature of quartz coupled to the mica is an interesting
              combination for a culture that "we" have always thought of as brutish
              and ignorant of physics (disregarding astronomical alignments,
              archetectural mastery, hydrological engineering of whole countrysides,
              and advanced surgical techniques).

              There is another very interesting and unique characteristic of mica:
              it "channels" light by wavelength. The thickness of the individual
              sheet of mica is directly related to the wavelength of light that it
              transmits most efficiently. It was used in woodstoves as the "peek"
              window material for over a century because it withstands the
              temperatures without warping or shattering. Today, it is used in high
              tech laser and optical systems for its wavelength selectivity.

              Oz

              --- In Precolumbian_ Inscriptions@ yahoogroups. com, "mike white"
              <infoplz@... > wrote:
              >
              >
              > likewise, parallel metal plates do not store electricity. i
              included an article to explain the physical characteristics of mica,
              which is composed of parallel sheets.
              > terry, are you an electrical engineer? my career of 33.5 years
              was as electrician, and in electrical engineering. by itself i cannot
              say mica will or will not accept a charge on its parallel sheets.
              > it is certainly singular that the ancients gathered and used two
              minerals such as mica and quartz, which do have specific uses with
              electricity, as i said.
              >
              > mike
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Terry J. Deveau
              > To: Precolumbian_ Inscriptions@ yahoogroups. com
              > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:01 AM
              > Subject: [Precolumbian_ Inscriptions] Mica
              >
              >
              > > mica stores electricity, and is used as capacitors for storing
              > > electricity today.
              >
              > Mica doesn't store electricity, no more so than air, plastic, or
              paper,
              > which are also used in capacitors. It is the parallel metal plates in
              > the capacitor that store the electric charge. The dialectric material
              > (such as mica) that keeps the oppositely charged plates apart, and
              > prevents them from shorting out, can be any non-conductive material.
              > Some dialectric materials are slightly better than others, depending
              > upon the application. Mica has ceratin advantages in some
              applications.
              > However, just hunks of mica, without being sandwiched between
              parallel
              > metal plates, have no noteworthy electrical properties.
              >
              > Terry
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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              >
              > No virus found in this incoming message.
              > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
              > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.2/784 - Release Date:
              5/1/2007 2:57 PM
              >


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            • Terry J. Deveau
              ... Mike, all everyone, I certainly don t want to come across as rude. Sorry if I did. As to my credentials, no I m not an electrical engineer, although I did
              Message 6 of 12 , May 2 12:37 PM
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                --- "mike white" <infoplz@...> wrote:

                > i tried to not speak in technical language, until my words
                > were rudely refuted.

                Mike, all everyone, I certainly don't want to come across as rude.

                Sorry if I did.

                As to my credentials, no I'm not an electrical engineer, although I
                did graduate with a diploma for completing the first 3 years of a 5
                year program in electrical engineering (and yes, we did cover
                capacitors rather thoroughly in those first three years). I
                subsequently completed a batchelor of science degree in math. I then
                switch to graduate studies in astronomy, but ran out of steam while
                trying to get my thesis finished for the master degree due to a yound
                family and other obligations. Later, I went back to PSU and completed
                a master of science in acoustics (1999), where I took addditional
                courses in electroacoustics, among many other topics, and once again
                covered capacitors quite thoroughly, along with piezoelectric
                transducers, etc.

                But all that aside, a piece of mica, whether in combination with
                quartz or not, will only hold a trivial static charge, in the same
                way as any other insulator (like a plastic hair comb, which you can
                use to move the flow of water coming out of a faucet). It cannot
                function to store serious amounts of energy, as a capacitor, without
                parallel conductive plates (generally metal, or some other highly
                conductive material, quartz does not qualify). The charge is actually
                held in the metal plates, not in the dialectric insulator. You can
                easily provve this in an experiment with a piece of mica and two
                metal plates, which you can easily make to store a charge. Now
                replace the metal plates with some non-conductive material, or just
                the raw mica, and you will see right away that no significant charge
                can be stored that way.

                Again, I'm very sorry if I'm coming across as rude. That is
                absolutely not my intention.

                With love and peace,
                Terry
              • mobydoc
                G-day Mike and Terry ...et al ; You are both right on your given subjects ...what I would like to do is tie both ideas into that (photovoltaic ) system
                Message 7 of 12 , May 2 2:27 PM
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                      G-day  Mike and Terry ...et al ;

                                You are both right on your given subjects ...what I would like to do is tie both

                    ideas into that (photovoltaic ) system  ...the Solar Cell ...even going back to that Ancient

                  Egyptian  unusual implement  called a ( Djed )  ...which [imho] was a Caduceus  Coil J

                    Mica- Silica has two properties  ...one is ]positive] and the other is [negative] could I be

                   wrong in my assumption ? or how would a Solar Cell work ....I myself am coming from

                   that far out field of  the Auto-electrical  knowledge J which with the advent of the (Alternator )

                   has turned what I used to know [being a Diesel Mechanic )...right on it’s assJ

                    But I’m trans guessing ....

                     Hope I have not laid a land mine  or could it be a Cow patty ...because you guys are

                   way ahead of most of our crew and me in particular  J 

                   

                         regards all         Pat/Mobydoc

                  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

                   

                     likewise, parallel metal plates do not store electricity.  i included an article to explain the physical characteristics of mica, which is composed of parallel sheets. 

                     terry, are you an electrical engineer?  my career of 33.5 years was as electrician, and in electrical engineering.  by itself i cannot say mica will or will not accept a charge on its parallel sheets. 

                     it is certainly singular that the ancients gathered and used two minerals such as mica and quartz, which do have specific uses with electricity, as i said. 

                   

                  mike

                   

                   

                  ----- Original Message -----

                  Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:01 AM

                  Subject: [Precolumbian_ Inscriptions] Mica

                   

                  > mica stores electricity, and is used as capacitors for storing
                  > electricity today.

                  Mica doesn't store electricity, no more so than air, plastic, or paper,
                  which are also used in capacitors. It is the parallel metal plates in
                  the capacitor that store the electric charge. The dialectric material
                  (such as mica) that keeps the oppositely charged plates apart, and
                  prevents them from shorting out, can be any non-conductive material.
                  Some dialectric materials are slightly better than others, depending
                  upon the application. Mica has ceratin advantages in some applications.
                  However, just hunks of mica, without being sandwiched between parallel
                  metal plates, have no noteworthy electrical properties.

                  Terry


                  No virus found in this incoming message.
                  Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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                  5/1/2007 2:57 PM

                • Phil Whitley
                  I just wanted to add my 2 cents worth on the electrical properties of mica. It is used in capacitors as a dilectric material. It simply increases the
                  Message 8 of 12 , May 2 4:07 PM
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                    I just wanted to add my 2 cents worth on the electrical properties of mica.

                    It is used in capacitors as a dilectric material. It simply increases the resistance, or opposition to current flow, between the metal plates. The metal plates have either an absense of electrons, or a surplus of electrons between them - thus storing a "charge" or difference of potential between the plates. If they were separated by air alone, the arcing point would be reached sooner than if a material that has poor conductivity were used instead of air.

                    Mica does not store a charge of energy - it separates it.

                    Quartz crystals produce electrical energy if struck or compressed. It can also be "tuned" to a specific frequency.

                    Solar cells work on a completely different principle. They convert sunlight to electrical energy.

                    Moby, and others interested - Google on "Baghdad Batteries"

                    Brew

                    mobydoc wrote:

                        G-day  Mike and Terry ...et al ;

                                  You are both right on your given subjects ...what I would like to do is tie both

                      ideas into that (photovoltaic ) system  ...the Solar Cell ...even going back to that Ancient

                    Egyptian  unusual implement  called a ( Djed )  ...which [imho] was a Caduceus  Coil J

                      Mica- Silica has two properties  ...one is ]positive] and the other is [negative] could I be

                     wrong in my assumption ? or how would a Solar Cell work ....I myself am coming from

                     that far out field of  the Auto-electrical  knowledge J which with the advent of the (Alternator )

                     has turned what I used to know [being a Diesel Mechanic )...right on it’s assJ

                      But I’m trans guessing ....

                       Hope I have not laid a land mine  or could it be a Cow patty ...because you guys are

                     way ahead of most of our crew and me in particular  J 

                     

                           regards all         Pat/Mobydoc

                    ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --

                     

                       likewise, parallel metal plates do not store electricity.  i included an article to explain the physical characteristics of mica, which is composed of parallel sheets. 

                       terry, are you an electrical engineer?  my career of 33.5 years was as electrician, and in electrical engineering.  by itself i cannot say mica will or will not accept a charge on its parallel sheets. 

                       it is certainly singular that the ancients gathered and used two minerals such as mica and quartz, which do have specific uses with electricity, as i said. 

                     

                    mike

                     

                     

                    ----- Original Message -----

                    Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:01 AM

                    Subject: [Precolumbian_ Inscriptions] Mica

                     

                    > mica stores electricity, and is used as capacitors for storing
                    > electricity today.

                    Mica doesn't store electricity, no more so than air, plastic, or paper,
                    which are also used in capacitors. It is the parallel metal plates in
                    the capacitor that store the electric charge. The dialectric material
                    (such as mica) that keeps the oppositely charged plates apart, and
                    prevents them from shorting out, can be any non-conductive material.
                    Some dialectric materials are slightly better than others, depending
                    upon the application. Mica has ceratin advantages in some applications.
                    However, just hunks of mica, without being sandwiched between parallel
                    metal plates, have no noteworthy electrical properties.

                    Terry


                    No virus found in this incoming message.
                    Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                    Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.2/784 - Release Date:
                    5/1/2007 2:57 PM

                  • mike white
                    its not worth laboring the issue for a passing comment. i prefer to think there was wisdom behind the ancients mining mica, and transporting it hundreds of
                    Message 9 of 12 , May 2 9:48 PM
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                         its not worth laboring the issue for a passing comment.  i prefer to think there was wisdom behind the ancients mining mica, and transporting it hundreds of miles, as in the case of the moundbuilders, with north carolina the nearest source.  in mexico i suppose they may have used mica for its shining quality, but this dont apply in ohio, where it was buried.  in such a setting the earth is the negative plate, and the heavens the positive.  there is a great difference between a dielectric and an insulator. 
                         an interesting book on the construction and location of holy places is 'the new view over atlantis'.  oddly, it is not about atlantis.  our scripture tells us to build our church in places where God may be found.  it gives a new perspective on the purpose of the steeple, and why high places and leylines are sought.  it gives understanding why lines of standing stones were erected, and the quality of a dew pond, and the circle of stones.  the reader needs to use the right brain, as well as the left, to comprehend such things. 
                         lets move on to our favorite studies. 
                       
                      mike
                       
                       
                    • Charles Mattox
                      Mike, Well written. I always enjoy the great commentary from all who post. The use of mica and copper among the ancients is fascinating and I believe all of us
                      Message 10 of 12 , May 2 10:05 PM
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                        Mike,
                        Well written.
                        I always enjoy the great commentary from all who post.
                        The use of mica and copper among the ancients is
                        fascinating and I believe all of us agree the best
                        understanding is yet to come in many regards of these
                        fascinating cultures.
                        Hope all of you are well.
                        Charles
                        --- mike white <infoplz@...> wrote:

                        >
                        > its not worth laboring the issue for a passing
                        > comment. i prefer to think there was wisdom behind
                        > the ancients mining mica, and transporting it
                        > hundreds of miles, as in the case of the
                        > moundbuilders, with north carolina the nearest
                        > source. in mexico i suppose they may have used mica
                        > for its shining quality, but this dont apply in
                        > ohio, where it was buried. in such a setting the
                        > earth is the negative plate, and the heavens the
                        > positive. there is a great difference between a
                        > dielectric and an insulator.
                        > an interesting book on the construction and
                        > location of holy places is 'the new view over
                        > atlantis'. oddly, it is not about atlantis. our
                        > scripture tells us to build our church in places
                        > where God may be found. it gives a new perspective
                        > on the purpose of the steeple, and why high places
                        > and leylines are sought. it gives understanding why
                        > lines of standing stones were erected, and the
                        > quality of a dew pond, and the circle of stones.
                        > the reader needs to use the right brain, as well as
                        > the left, to comprehend such things.
                        > lets move on to our favorite studies.
                        >
                        > mike
                        >
                        >


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                      • mobydoc
                        . G-day Brew et al
                        Message 11 of 12 , May 2 11:39 PM
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                          .

                             G-day Brew  et al J

                              Here’s .[two]pence worth J from  Copernic Pro  J

                          http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1151-2916.1992.tb07857.x

                          (Plus) J

                          http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/01/0114_050114_solarplastic.html

                          __Actually, only part of our solar cell is N-type. The other part is doped with boron, which has only three electrons in its outer shell instead of four, to become P-type silicon. Instead of having free electrons, P-type silicon ("p" for positive) has free holes. Holes really are just the absence of electrons, so they carry the opposite (positive) charge. They move around just like electrons do.

                          The interesting part starts when you put N-type silicon together with P-type silicon. Remember that every PV cell has at least one electric field. Without an electric field, the cell wouldn't work, and this field forms when the N-type and P-type silicon are in contact. Suddenly, the free electrons in the N side, which have been looking all over for holes to fall into, see all the free holes on the P side, and there's a mad rush to fill them in...

                                                                     Pat/Moby

                           

                          ,_._,___

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