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Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] book review of cremo's 'the hidden history of the human race' - [my musings]

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  • mike white
    welcome to all of the new members. if it seems you are getting too many messages, one can go to group main, link below, and set it to only one email, the
    Message 1 of 26 , Feb 6, 2006
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         welcome to all of the new members.  if it seems you are getting too many messages, one can go to group main, link below, and set it to only one email, the daily digest.  i hope you enjoy yourself in the group. 
       
         'nineteenth-century scientists found many stone tools and weapons in early pleistocene, pliocene, miocene, and older strata.'   [this is incredible!]
       
         [but then ive seen a chimp use a stick to draw termites out of logs, and wave a bigger one to threaten others.    this level of development is not difficult for primitive man to meet, but its the level many consider for thinking man. 
         he may have reached this level by 50 mya, for cayce's men of 10 mya were global travellers, meeting to discuss the highest wisdom.  its perfectly conceivable that they may have filled the skins of mammoth or other beasts with hot air or gases, and flew around. 
         flints and shark teeth are very sharp tools, and they had saws, and had art.  imho, these miocene artifacts point to cultured man.  beyond 50 mya is hardest for me to accept.]
         [we must consider the portions of continents that were above the sea in each epoch of time, to know where to search for the earliest humans, or to realize the actual age of the relic or handiwork of man.  the colorado plateau was up 10 mya ago says cayce and geology, and there are depictions on rocks there that are unique to that one area.  the uk must go up and down like an elevator over ages.  peru was said by cayce to be populated 10 mya.]  
        
         'whole categories of facts have disappeared from view.' 
         author specifies 3 divisions of stone tool industries, 1. eoliths, 2. crude paleoliths, and 3. advanced paleoliths and neoliths.   [much better than just old stone age and neolithic.]   
         'eoliths [or dawn stones] are stones with edges naturally suited for certain kind of uses.'  'marks of usage should be present'. 
         'neolithic cultures date back only about 10,000 years, and are associated with agriculture and pottery.'  [some books give 1500 bce for neolithic] 
         
      mike
       
       
    • mike white
      paleolithic implements of the somme region of france to homo erectus, and date them at just .5-.7 mya. scientists of the nineteenth century made several
      Message 2 of 26 , Feb 6, 2006
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           'paleolithic implements of the somme region of france to homo erectus, and date them at just .5-.7' mya. 
           'scientists of the nineteenth century made several discoveries of skeletal remains of anatomically modern human beings in strata of pliocene age.' 
           'because there is much evidence, including skeletal remains, that humans of the fully modern type existed in pre-pliocene times, there is no reason to rule out the possibility that moir's emplements from below the crag formations were made by homo sapiens over 5 million years ago.' 
           'in the angle platform-scar, barnes believed he had found the objectively measurable feature by which one could distinguish natural chipping from human work.'  few experts were able to 'specify what angle barnes was measuring'.  'of human origin if less than 25% of the angles platform scars are obtuse'. 
            these sites yielded dates as great as 30,000 years for humans in america : el cedral in n mexico, santa barbara is off ca, and the rock shelter of boquierao do sitio da pedra furada in n brazil. 
           an image is shown of a beaked graver from calico in s ca., dated at about 200,000 years.  p46
           monte verde chile : dated 12,500-13,000 years, non-clovis culture, many perishable items preserved by bog. 
           [as noted before, no clovis culture has been found in asia.   the bering landbridge, and out of africa theories have muddled prehistory.] 
           'scientists typically demand higher levels of proof for anomalous finds than for evidence that fits'. 
           current thinking has homo erectus the first humans to leave africa about 1 mya. 
            
        end chap 3
         
        mike
         
      • mike white
        [im a bit concerned that the authors cite so often that anatomically modern human skeletons have been found in strata over 2 mya, with no mention of giants.
        Message 3 of 26 , Feb 7, 2006
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             [im a bit concerned that the authors cite so often that 'anatomically modern human' skeletons have been found in strata over 2 mya, with no mention of giants.  there is considerable evidence that giant men did exist.  there were numerous reports of skulls, bones, and even cemeteries of giants in america.  this is attested by vedic literature, so im puzzled the authors neglected to research it.  perhaps their findings were radical enough, without adding further controversy, but they should go where the facts lead.  how do we date the time when men were giants?  were men 5-6 ft tall 5 mya, then giants during pleistocene times, before reverting back to our smaller frame?  the bones and skulls of giants unearthed in america were not fossilized, they did turn to dust shortly after exposure to the air.  would we recognize huge flints as tools of humans, or simply overlook them?  this is a very important omission, it gives an incomplete picture of the human race.  the bible, greeks, egyptians, hindus, and babylonians record the reigns, acts, and deification of the titans.  they seem to have been on almost every continent.] 
             any comments?
           
          mike
           
        • Charles De Vaul
          I was a bit disturbed there too. I eventually decided that everyone has an agenda and giants are not part of his. Perhaps he was thinking that adding the
          Message 4 of 26 , Feb 7, 2006
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            I was a bit disturbed there too. I eventually decided that everyone has
            an agenda and giants are not part of his. Perhaps he was thinking that
            adding the giant info would be pushing the academic world too far at the
            moment. It was one of my main motivations for reading the book though
            and I was as disappointed as you.

            Chuck


            On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 3:30 am, mike white wrote:
            > [im a bit concerned that the authors cite so often that 'anatomically
            > modern human' skeletons have been found in strata over 2 mya, with no
            > mention of giants.  there is considerable evidence that giant men
            > did exist.  there were numerous reports of skulls, bones, and even
            > cemeteries of giants in america.  this is attested by vedic literature,
            > so im puzzled the authors neglected to research it.  perhaps their
            > findings were radical enough, without adding further controversy, but
            > they should go where the facts lead.  how do we date the time when men
            > were giants?  were men 5-6 ft tall 5 mya, then giants during
            > pleistocene times, before reverting back to our smaller frame?  the
            > bones and skulls of giants unearthed in america were not
            > fossilized, they did turn to dust shortly after exposure to the air. 
            > would we recognize huge flints as tools of humans, or simply overlook
            > them?  this is a very important omission, it gives an incomplete
            > picture of the human race.  the bible, greeks, egyptians, hindus, and
            > babylonians record the reigns, acts, and deification of the titans. 
            > they seem to have been on almost every continent.] 
            >
            > any comments?
            >
            > mike
            >
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          • mike white
            [the authors perhaps rightly stayed upon sites and artifacts that represented the record. its not that scores of giant bones and skulls werent found, but they
            Message 5 of 26 , Feb 7, 2006
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                 [the authors perhaps rightly stayed upon sites and artifacts that represented the record.  its not that scores of giant bones and skulls werent found, but they were not preserved properly, and the evidence vanished. 
                 even today, if unfossilized bones of giants were found, how many excavators have the proper spray sealant prepared and ready for instant application?  one doesnt go digging for giants, but are usually surprised by the find, and too slow to hermetically seal the relics.
                 i wonder if abraham was a giant?  we must treat most dating as pipe-dreams, because its given that there were giants in the days of joshua, hundreds of years later.
                 apparently giants and moderns coexisted for a long time, and i wonder if all humans had been giants earlier?  before and after noah's flood, there were giants.  at troy, giants and moderns were in both armies.
                 its possible even cremo is following the wrong tracks.  ape-men and failed proto-human sub-groups may have used the crude stone tools we are studying.  our true ancestors may have lived during the same periods, but were using more refined, but perishable tools, weapons, and goods.  he uses modern stone age cultures to point to the ancient flint workers, and say they were modern humans anatomically, but this is not necessarilly so.  in every age, its likely, as now, that advanced cultures shared the planet with stone age cultures.  maybe the tools of our stone-agers will be the only relics to survive a million years from now, and will archeologists then conclude we were all primitive? ] 
               
              mike
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 3:36 AM
              Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] book review of cremo's 'the hidden history of the human race' - [my musings]

              I was a bit disturbed there too.  I eventually decided that everyone has
              an agenda and giants are not part of his.  Perhaps he was thinking that
              adding the giant info would be pushing the academic world too far at the
              moment.  It was one of my main motivations for reading the book though
              and I was as disappointed as you.

              Chuck
            • Charles De Vaul
              That may be true. If I recall though, there were numerous examples of exceptionally old findings like the gold chain found in coal that have also disappeared.
              Message 6 of 26 , Feb 7, 2006
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                That may be true. If I recall though, there were numerous examples of
                exceptionally old findings like the gold chain found in coal that have
                also disappeared. In fact it seemed that many of the examples would be
                extremely difficult if not impossible to confirm. There were many
                solid, practically undeniable ones as well so I'm not doubting his
                claims, just wondering why he saw fit to put these unconfirmable finds
                with the hard evidence and still saw fit to exclude the giants data.

                Is that what you find as well or am I remembering impressions that were
                off?

                Chuck

                On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 6:16 am, mike white wrote:
                > [the authors perhaps rightly stayed upon sites and artifacts that
                > represented the record.  its not that scores of giant bones and skulls
                > werent found, but they were not preserved properly, and the evidence
                > vanished. 
                >
                > even today, if unfossilized bones of giants were found, how many
                > excavators have the proper spray sealant prepared and ready for instant
                > application?  one doesnt go digging for giants, but are usually
                > surprised by the find, and too slow to hermetically seal the relics.
                >
                > i wonder if abraham was a giant?  we must treat most dating as
                > pipe-dreams, because its given that there were giants in the days of
                > joshua, hundreds of years later.
                >
                > apparently giants and moderns coexisted for a long time, and i wonder
                > if all humans had been giants earlier?  before and after noah's flood,
                > there were giants.  at troy, giants and moderns were in both armies.
                >
                > its possible even cremo is following the wrong tracks.  ape-men and
                > failed proto-human sub-groups may have used the crude stone tools we
                > are studying.  our true ancestors may have lived during the same
                > periods, but were using more refined, but perishable tools, weapons,
                > and goods.  he uses modern stone age cultures to point to the ancient
                > flint workers, and say they were modern humans anatomically, but this
                > is not necessarilly so.  in every age, its likely, as now, that
                > advanced cultures shared the planet with stone age cultures.  maybe the
                > tools of our stone-agers will be the only relics to survive a million
                > years from now, and will archeologists then conclude we were all
                > primitive? ] 
                >
                > mike
                >
                >> ----- Original Message -----
                >>
                >> From: Charles De Vaul
                >>
                >> To: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com
                >>
                >> Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 3:36 AM
                >>
                >> Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] book review of cremo's 'the
                >> hidden history of the human race' - [my musings]
                >>
                >> I was a bit disturbed there too.  I eventually decided that everyone
                >> has
                >> an agenda and giants are not part of his.  Perhaps he was thinking that
                >> adding the giant info would be pushing the academic world too far at
                >> the
                >> moment.  It was one of my main motivations for reading the book though
                >> and I was as disappointed as you.
                >>
                >> Chuck
                >
                > Hosted by http://all-ez.com/epigraphy.htm
                > Group Site : http://www.epigraphyusa.com
                > To unsubscribe from this group, although we hope
                > you stay and help us improve.  First consider changing to daily digest,
                > or no mail - web only, visit main and edit membership :
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions
                > if you must leave send an email to:
                > Precolumbian_Inscriptions-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > SPONSORED LINKS
                >
                > Online social science degree
                >
                > Social science course
                >
                > Social science degree
                >
                > Social science education
                >
                > Bachelor of social science
                >
                > Social science major
                >
                > --------------------
                >
                > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                >
                > Visit your group "Precolumbian_Inscriptions" on the web.
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > Precolumbian_Inscriptions-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                >
                > --------------------
                Charles De Vaul <//>
                www.ruinsofatlantis.com
              • Rafael Andrés Escribano
                Hi Mike, all. Here s Cremo on giant humans:
                Message 7 of 26 , Feb 7, 2006
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                  Hi Mike, all.
                   
                  Here's Cremo on giant humans:
                   
                  <<I am familiar with the reports of giant skeletons, some with unusual features like two rows of teeth, being found in the Midwestern US Indian mounds.  I have not investigated them in detail for a few reasons.  My main interest is evidence for extreme human antiquity – evidence that humans like us existed more than the one or two hundred thousand years most scientists now accept.  The Indian mounds are by all accounts fairly recent, within the past couple thousand years. Second, although the reports are there, I have not yet seen any of the giant bones referred to, what to speak of those with two rows of teeth.  If you have any knowledge of where giant human bones can be seen, let me know.  When I was doing a little media tour of New Zealand a year or so ago, I learned that there were supposedly some bones of humans ten feet high in a natural history museum in Auckland.  But when I showed up to see them, it didn’t happen.  There were cases in the early nineteenth century when bones of other animals were identified as human bones.  That is not necessarily the case with all the discoveries, but one does have to be careful about this.  Also, even today, there are a few people that are 7-8 feet tall.  But when you get to 10 feet, that is really strange.  In any case, I do have an open mind about these discoveries, and would like to know about any hard evidence that supports the original reports.

                  Sincerely yours,
                  Michael Cremo

                  http://www.mcremo.com/flash.htm >>

                   

                  Rafael


                  Dr. Rafael Andrés Escribano
                  Hasting BA-8, Garden Hills Norte
                  Guaynabo, Puerto Rico USA 00966
                  logofilo@...
                  www.logofilo.com
                  787 221 5615
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 4:29 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] book review of cremo's 'the hidden history of the human race' - [my musings]

                   
                     [im a bit concerned that the authors cite so often that 'anatomically modern human' skeletons have been found in strata over 2 mya, with no mention of giants.  there is considerable evidence that giant men did exist.  there were numerous reports of skulls, bones, and even cemeteries of giants in america.  this is attested by vedic literature, so im puzzled the authors neglected to research it.  perhaps their findings were radical enough, without adding further controversy, but they should go where the facts lead.  how do we date the time when men were giants?  were men 5-6 ft tall 5 mya, then giants during pleistocene times, before reverting back to our smaller frame?  the bones and skulls of giants unearthed in america were not fossilized, they did turn to dust shortly after exposure to the air.  would we recognize huge flints as tools of humans, or simply overlook them?  this is a very important omission, it gives an incomplete picture of the human race.  the bible, greeks, egyptians, hindus, and babylonians record the reigns, acts, and deification of the titans.  they seem to have been on almost every continent.] 
                     any comments?
                   
                  mike
                   
                • heychuck@comcast.net
                  Well that settles it then. Excellent answer. Did you write him and ask or did you find that on the net somewhere? Chuck ... From: Rafael Andrés Escribano
                  Message 8 of 26 , Feb 7, 2006
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                    Well that settles it then.  Excellent answer.  Did you write him and ask or did you find that on the net somewhere?
                     
                    Chuck
                     
                    -------------- Original message --------------
                    From: Rafael Andr�s Escribano <logofilo@...>
                    Hi Mike, all.
                     
                    Here's Cremo on giant humans:
                     
                    <<I am familiar with the reports of giant skeletons, some with unusual features like two rows of teeth, being found in the Midwestern US Indian mounds.  I have not investigated them in detail for a few reasons.  My main interest is evidence for extreme human antiquity � evidence that humans like us existed more than the one or two hundred thousand years most scientists now accept.  The Indian mounds are by all accounts fairly recent, within the past couple thousand years. Second, although the reports are there, I have not yet seen any of the giant bones referred to, what to speak of those with two rows of teeth.  If you have any knowledge of where giant human bones can be seen, let me know.  When I was doing a little media tour of New Zealand a year or so ago, I learned that there were supposedly some bones of humans ten feet high in a natural history museum in Auckland.  But when I showed up to see them, it didn�t happen.  There were cases in the early nineteenth century when bones of other animals were identified as human bones.  That is not necessarily the case with all the discoveries, but one does have to be careful about this.  Also, even today, there are a few people that are 7-8 feet tall.  But when you get to 10 feet, that is really strange.  In any case, I do have an open mind about these discoveries, and would like to know about any hard evidence that supports the original reports.

                    Sincerely yours,
                    Michael Cremo

                    http://www.mcremo.com/flash.htm >>

                     

                    Rafael


                    Dr. Rafael Andr�s Escribano
                    Hasting BA-8, Garden Hills Norte
                    Guaynabo, Puerto Rico USA 00966
                    logofilo@...
                    www.logofilo.com
                    787 221 5615
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 4:29 AM
                    Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] book review of cremo's 'the hidden history of the human race' - [my musings]

                     
                       [im a bit concerned that the authors cite so often that 'anatomically modern human' skeletons have been found in strata over 2 mya, with no mention of giants.  there is considerable evidence that giant men did exist.  there were numerous reports of skulls, bones, and even cemeteries of giants in america.  this is attested by vedic literature, so im puzzled the authors neglected to research it.  perhaps their findings were radical enough, without adding further controversy, but they should go where the facts lead.  how do we date the time when men were giants?  were men 5-6 ft tall 5 mya, then giants during pleistocene times, before reverting back to our smaller frame?  the bones and skulls of giants unearthed in america were not fossilized, they did turn to dust shortly after exposure to the air.  would we recognize huge flints as tools of humans, or simply overlook them?  this is a very important omission, it gives an incomplete picture of the human race.  the bible, greeks, egyptians, hindus, and babylonians record the reigns, acts, and deification of the titans.  they seem to have been on almost every continent.] 
                       any comments?
                     
                    mike
                     
                  • mike white
                    thanks rafael and chuck. im glad he has considered giants, and seems to be open, but it could be a long wait for hard evidence. the anecdotal and
                    Message 9 of 26 , Feb 7, 2006
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                         thanks rafael and chuck.  im glad he has considered giants, and seems to be open, but it could be a long wait for hard evidence.  the anecdotal and circumstantial proofs are overwhelming.  if he put a fraction of the effort into the research of giants, he would know much more than a few instances recovered from 'indian mounds'.  this has led him to suppose that the age of giants was during the holocene, when the instances he has heard of may have been genetic throwbacks.  i forget the correct term. 
                         this omission could have led him down the wrong trail.  i just dont think that man remained in the stone age for millions of years, as this study would have us believe. 
                         the authors have written a brilliant book, far ahead of the concensus mainstream, so i will not fault them, but continue the review. 
                       
                      mike
                       
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 8:35 AM
                      Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] book review of cremo's 'the hidden history of the human race' - [my musings]

                      Hi Mike, all.
                       
                      Here's Cremo on giant humans:
                       
                      <<I am familiar with the reports of giant skeletons, some with unusual features like two rows of teeth, being found in the Midwestern US Indian mounds.  I have not investigated them in detail for a few reasons.  My main interest is evidence for extreme human antiquity – evidence that humans like us existed more than the one or two hundred thousand years most scientists now accept.  The Indian mounds are by all accounts fairly recent, within the past couple thousand years. Second, although the reports are there, I have not yet seen any of the giant bones referred to, what to speak of those with two rows of teeth.  If you have any knowledge of where giant human bones can be seen, let me know.  When I was doing a little media tour of New Zealand a year or so ago, I learned that there were supposedly some bones of humans ten feet high in a natural history museum in Auckland.  But when I showed up to see them, it didn’t happen.  There were cases in the early nineteenth century when bones of other animals were identified as human bones.  That is not necessarily the case with all the discoveries, but one does have to be careful about this.  Also, even today, there are a few people that are 7-8 feet tall.  But when you get to 10 feet, that is really strange.  In any case, I do have an open mind about these discoveries, and would like to know about any hard evidence that supports the original reports.

                      Sincerely yours,
                      Michael Cremo

                      http://www.mcremo.com/flash.htm >>

                       

                      Rafael


                      Dr. Rafael Andrés Escribano
                      Hasting BA-8, Garden Hills Norte
                      Guaynabo, Puerto Rico USA 00966
                      logofilo@...
                      www.logofilo.com
                      787 221 5615
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 4:29 AM
                      Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] book review of cremo's 'the hidden history of the human race' - [my musings]

                       
                         [im a bit concerned that the authors cite so often that 'anatomically modern human' skeletons have been found in strata over 2 mya, with no mention of giants.  there is considerable evidence that giant men did exist.  there were numerous reports of skulls, bones, and even cemeteries of giants in america.  this is attested by vedic literature, so im puzzled the authors neglected to research it.  perhaps their findings were radical enough, without adding further controversy, but they should go where the facts lead.  how do we date the time when men were giants?  were men 5-6 ft tall 5 mya, then giants during pleistocene times, before reverting back to our smaller frame?  the bones and skulls of giants unearthed in america were not fossilized, they did turn to dust shortly after exposure to the air.  would we recognize huge flints as tools of humans, or simply overlook them?  this is a very important omission, it gives an incomplete picture of the human race.  the bible, greeks, egyptians, hindus, and babylonians record the reigns, acts, and deification of the titans.  they seem to have been on almost every continent.] 
                         any comments?
                       
                      mike
                       
                    • Rafael Andrés Escribano
                      Hi, Chuck. I just Googled ... Cremo s attitude seems quite sensible. Rafael Dr. Rafael Andrés Escribano Hasting BA-8, Garden
                      Message 10 of 26 , Feb 7, 2006
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                        Hi, Chuck.
                         
                        I just Googled <"Michael Cremo" "giant human">... Cremo's attitude seems quite sensible.
                         
                        Rafael
                         

                        Dr. Rafael Andrés Escribano
                        Hasting BA-8, Garden Hills Norte
                        Guaynabo, Puerto Rico USA 00966
                        logofilo@...
                        www.logofilo.com
                        787 221 5615
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 10:19 AM
                        Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] book review of cremo's 'the hidden history of the human race' - [my musings]

                        Well that settles it then.  Excellent answer.  Did you write him and ask or did you find that on the net somewhere?
                         
                        Chuck
                         
                        -------------- Original message --------------
                        From: Rafael Andrés Escribano <logofilo@...>
                        Hi Mike, all.
                         
                        Here's Cremo on giant humans:
                         
                        <<I am familiar with the reports of giant skeletons, some with unusual features like two rows of teeth, being found in the Midwestern US Indian mounds.  I have not investigated them in detail for a few reasons.  My main interest is evidence for extreme human antiquity – evidence that humans like us existed more than the one or two hundred thousand years most scientists now accept.  The Indian mounds are by all accounts fairly recent, within the past couple thousand years. Second, although the reports are there, I have not yet seen any of the giant bones referred to, what to speak of those with two rows of teeth.  If you have any knowledge of where giant human bones can be seen, let me know.  When I was doing a little media tour of New Zealand a year or so ago, I learned that there were supposedly some bones of humans ten feet high in a natural history museum in Auckland.  But when I showed up to see them, it didn’t happen.  There were cases in the early nineteenth century when bones of other animals were identified as human bones.  That is not necessarily the case with all the discoveries, but one does have to be careful about this.  Also, even today, there are a few people that are 7-8 feet tall.  But when you get to 10 feet, that is really strange.  In any case, I do have an open mind about these discoveries, and would like to know about any hard evidence that supports the original reports.

                        Sincerely yours,
                        Michael Cremo

                        http://www.mcremo.com/flash.htm >>

                         

                        Rafael


                        Dr. Rafael Andrés Escribano
                        Hasting BA-8, Garden Hills Norte
                        Guaynabo, Puerto Rico USA 00966
                        logofilo@...
                        www.logofilo.com
                        787 221 5615
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 4:29 AM
                        Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] book review of cremo's 'the hidden history of the human race' - [my musings]

                         
                           [im a bit concerned that the authors cite so often that 'anatomically modern human' skeletons have been found in strata over 2 mya, with no mention of giants.  there is considerable evidence that giant men did exist.  there were numerous reports of skulls, bones, and even cemeteries of giants in america.  this is attested by vedic literature, so im puzzled the authors neglected to research it.  perhaps their findings were radical enough, without adding further controversy, but they should go where the facts lead.  how do we date the time when men were giants?  were men 5-6 ft tall 5 mya, then giants during pleistocene times, before reverting back to our smaller frame?  the bones and skulls of giants unearthed in america were not fossilized, they did turn to dust shortly after exposure to the air.  would we recognize huge flints as tools of humans, or simply overlook them?  this is a very important omission, it gives an incomplete picture of the human race.  the bible, greeks, egyptians, hindus, and babylonians record the reigns, acts, and deification of the titans.  they seem to have been on almost every continent.] 
                           any comments?
                         
                        mike
                         
                      • tony paim
                        there is evidence that there was an advanced race on earth 120 million years ago, the following link is to a page where there is a map that is dated back to
                        Message 11 of 26 , Feb 7, 2006
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                          there is evidence that there was an advanced race on earth 120 million years ago, the following link is to a page where there is a map that is dated back to 120 million years, found in russia and the people that made the map had to have had air flight and advanced engineering techniques and hydro electricity, due to the dams, this should be the biggest discovery in history but I have not seen anything in the mainstream medis at all, hope this sheds some light on how old humans are and how much has been kept from us, and how many lies have been told to keep the secrets of our origin.

                          http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/04/30/28149.html

                          Tony

                          From: Rafael Andr�s Escribano <logofilo@...>
                          Reply-To: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com
                          To: <Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com>
                          Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] book review of cremo's 'the hidden history of the human race' - [my musings]
                          Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 09:35:29 -0400

                          Hi Mike, all.
                           
                          Here's Cremo on giant humans:
                           
                          <<I am familiar with the reports of giant skeletons, some with unusual features like two rows of teeth, being found in the Midwestern US Indian mounds.  I have not investigated them in detail for a few reasons.  My main interest is evidence for extreme human antiquity � evidence that humans like us existed more than the one or two hundred thousand years most scientists now accept.  The Indian mounds are by all accounts fairly recent, within the past couple thousand years. Second, although the reports are there, I have not yet seen any of the giant bones referred to, what to speak of those with two rows of teeth.  If you have any knowledge of where giant human bones can be seen, let me know.  When I was doing a little media tour of New Zealand a year or so ago, I learned that there were supposedly some bones of humans ten feet high in a natural history museum in Auckland.  But when I showed up to see them, it didn�t happen.  There were cases in the early nineteenth century when bones of other animals were identified as human bones.  That is not necessarily the case with all the discoveries, but one does have to be careful about this.  Also, even today, there are a few people that are 7-8 feet tall.  But when you get to 10 feet, that is really strange.  In any case, I do have an open mind about these discoveries, and would like to know about any hard evidence that supports the original reports.

                          Sincerely yours,
                          Michael Cremo

                          http://www.mcremo.com/flash.htm >>

                           

                          Rafael


                          Dr. Rafael Andr�s Escribano
                          Hasting BA-8, Garden Hills Norte
                          Guaynabo, Puerto Rico USA 00966
                          logofilo@...
                          www.logofilo.com
                          787 221 5615
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 4:29 AM
                          Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] book review of cremo's 'the hidden history of the human race' - [my musings]

                           
                             [im a bit concerned that the authors cite so often that 'anatomically modern human' skeletons have been found in strata over 2 mya, with no mention of giants.  there is considerable evidence that giant men did exist.  there were numerous reports of skulls, bones, and even cemeteries of giants in america.  this is attested by vedic literature, so im puzzled the authors neglected to research it.  perhaps their findings were radical enough, without adding further controversy, but they should go where the facts lead.  how do we date the time when men were giants?  were men 5-6 ft tall 5 mya, then giants during pleistocene times, before reverting back to our smaller frame?  the bones and skulls of giants unearthed in america were not fossilized, they did turn to dust shortly after exposure to the air.  would we recognize huge flints as tools of humans, or simply overlook them?  this is a very important omission, it gives an incomplete picture of the human race.  the bible, greeks, egyptians, hindus, and babylonians record the reigns, acts, and deification of the titans.  they seem to have been on almost every continent.] 
                             any comments?
                           
                          mike
                           


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                        • mike white
                          l.w. patterson holds that the bulb of percussion is the most important sign of intentional work on a flint flake. it appears fire had been used to crack
                          Message 12 of 26 , Feb 7, 2006
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                               l.w. patterson 'holds that the bulb of percussion is the most important sign of intentional work on a flint flake.' 
                               it appears fire had been used to crack flint into usable flakes. 
                               'if even one single piece of evidence for the existence of toolmakers in the miocene or early pliocene were to be accepted, the whole picture of human evolution, built up so carefully in this century, would disintegrate.' 
                                'fossil skeletal remains indistinguishable from those of fully modern humans have been found in the pliocene, miocene, eocene and even earlier.' 
                               [i will not attempt to cite all of the technical aspects of stone tool making, and the criteria for judging if natural or man-made.]
                               in 1932 edison lohr and harold dunning found stone tools on the high terraces of the black's fork river in wyoming, from the middle pleistocene. 
                               in 1887, ameghino made discoveries at monte hermosa, argentina, of crudely worked flints, carved bones, and burned bones, thought to be 3.5 mya. 
                               a toxodon femur with flint projectile embedded in it was found at miramar argentina in strata of 2-3 mya.  note that these toxodon were smaller than toxodon that lived circa 10,000 bce. 
                               its interesting that bola stones have been used for millions of years in argentina. 
                               'could human beings have lived continuously in argentina since the tertiary and not changed their technology?' 
                               in 1958 at lewisville texas, stone tools, burned animal bones, a hearth, and clovis point were found, carbon dated to 38,000 years ago.  after the clovis find the experts backed off on support, for all accept 12,000 for clovis. 
                               sophisticated stone tools, equal to cro magnon's best, were found 75 miles se of mexico city, dated four ways to 250,000 years. 
                               [its this kind of pressure from the establishment that has removed objectivity from our scientific approach.  its said those that find anomalous relics are smarter to rebury them and walk away.  remembering the accepted answers is easier and smarter career-wise, than doing independent thinking, and letting the relics lead one to conclusions.] 
                               at sandia cave nm a folsom blade was found encrusted in travertine dated 250,000 years old.  this data was challenged and suppressed. 
                             
                            mike
                             
                             
                          • Brother Shane
                            http://www.s8int.com/page7.html tony paim wrote: there is evidence that there was an advanced race on earth 120 million years ago,
                            Message 13 of 26 , Feb 7, 2006
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                              http://www.s8int.com/page7.html

                              tony paim <ttiger27@...> wrote:
                              there is evidence that there was an advanced race on earth 120 million years ago, the following link is to a page where there is a map that is dated back to 120 million years, found in russia and the people that made the map had to have had air flight and advanced engineering techniques and hydro electricity, due to the dams, this should be the biggest discovery in history but I have not seen anything in the mainstream medis at all, hope this sheds some light on how old humans are and how much has been kept from us, and how many lies have been told to keep the secrets of our origin.

                              http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/04/30/28149.html
                              Tony

                              From: Rafael André³ Escribano <logofilo@...>
                              Reply-To: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com
                              To: <Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com>
                              Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] book review of cremo's 'the hidden history of the human race' - [my musings]
                              Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 09:35:29 -0400

                              Hi Mike, all.
                               
                              Here's Cremo on giant humans:
                               
                              <<I am familiar with the reports of giant skeletons, some with unusual features like two rows of teeth, being found in the Midwestern US Indian mounds.  I have not investigated them in detail for a few reasons.  My main interest is evidence for extreme human antiquity ? evidence that humans like us existed more than the one or two hundred thousand years most scientists now accept.  The Indian mounds are by all accounts fairly recent, within the past couple thousand years. Second, although the reports are there, I have not yet seen any of the giant bones referred to, what to speak of those with two rows of teeth.  If you have any knowledge of where giant human bones can be seen, let me know.  When I was doing a little media tour of New Zealand a year or so ago, I learned that there were supposedly some bones of humans ten feet high in a natural history museum in Auckland.  But when I showed up to see them, it didn?t happen.  There were cases in the early nineteenth century when bones of other animals were identified as human bones.  That is not necessarily the case with all the discoveries, but one does have to be careful about this.  Also, even today, there are a few people that are 7-8 feet tall.  But when you get to 10 feet, that is really strange.  In any case, I do have an open mind about these discoveries, and would like to know about any hard evidence that supports the original reports.
                              Sincerely yours,
                              Michael Cremo
                               
                              Rafael

                              Dr. Rafael André³ Escribano
                              Hasting BA-8, Garden Hills Norte
                              Guaynabo, Puerto Rico USA 00966
                              logofilo@...
                              www.logofilo.com
                              787 221 5615
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 4:29 AM
                              Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] book review of cremo's 'the hidden history of the human race' - [my musings]

                               
                                 [im a bit concerned that the authors cite so often that 'anatomically modern human' skeletons have been found in strata over 2 mya, with no mention of giants.  there is considerable evidence that giant men did exist.  there were numerous reports of skulls, bones, and even cemeteries of giants in america.  this is attested by vedic literature, so im puzzled the authors neglected to research it.  perhaps their findings were radical enough, without adding further controversy, but they should go where the facts lead.  how do we date the time when men were giants?  were men 5-6 ft tall 5 mya, then giants during pleistocene times, before reverting back to our smaller frame?  the bones and skulls of giants unearthed in america were not fossilized, they did turn to dust shortly after exposure to the air.  would we recognize huge flints as tools of humans, or simply overlook them?  this is a very important omission, it gives an incomplete picture of the human race.  the bible, greeks, egyptians, hindus, and babylonians record the reigns, acts, and deification of the titans.  they seem to have been on almost every continent.] 
                                 any comments?
                               
                              mike
                               


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                            • mike white
                              many finds were made below the lava cap in table mt ca, including a stone hatchet, spearheads, and human jaw bone. a 15 inch stone mortar was found 180 ft
                              Message 14 of 26 , Feb 7, 2006
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                                   many finds were made below the lava cap in table mt ca, including a stone hatchet, spearheads, and human jaw bone.  a 15 inch stone mortar was found 180 ft below the surface beneath the latite cap.  some of these relics seem to be 55 mya.  also found was a small oval tablet of slate, 'with a melon and leaf carved in bas relief'.  [incredible!]
                                  
                                chap 6 p103
                                   aix-en-provence, france : workmen in a limestone quarry in 1786 'found stumps of columns and fragments of stone half-wrought'.  'they found moreover coins, handles of hammers, and other tools'.  at 50 ft depth, covered by 11 beds of limestone. 
                                   [its a sad fact that scientists take pride in ignoring and dismissing such reports without any investigation.] 
                                   in 1830 a marble block was taken from a depth of 60-70 ft, when it was being cut workers saw that within the block two raised letters had been cut, like an i and u.  near philly
                                   an iron nail was found within devonian sandstone in scotland in 1844.  400 mya
                                   in 1852 a huge puddingstone near dorchester, ma was blown up, precambrian found 15 ft below surface.  out of it came an artful silver alloy vase, 'on the side there are six figures or a flower, or bouquet, beautifully inlaid with silver'. 
                                   mention was made of an ancient board where the wood had turned to agate. 
                                   a coin was brought up by a well boring at 114 ft level at lawn ridge illinois.  it bears human figures and inscriptions on both sides.   deposits at the level date 200-400,000 years ago.  copper and iron relics reported from deep under whiteside co, il. 
                                 
                                mike
                                 
                                 
                              • Charles De Vaul
                                That is the first reference I have found that was not on pravada. I was beginning to think it was a hoax but this one does have additional information. At
                                Message 15 of 26 , Feb 7, 2006
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                                  That is the first reference I have found that was not on pravada. I was
                                  beginning to think it was a hoax but this one does have additional
                                  information. At least it appears that way from what I've read. Doesn't
                                  mean it's legit but at least it's a bit more. This find is very
                                  important to my work and a few others whose projects are connected with
                                  mine. If only I could speak with one of these scientists working on
                                  it.

                                  Chuck



                                  On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 7:41 pm, Brother Shane wrote:
                                  > http://www.s8int.com/page7.html
                                  >
                                  > tony paim <ttiger27@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >> there is evidence that there was an advanced race on earth 120 million
                                  >> years ago, the following link is to a page where there is a map that
                                  >> is dated back to 120 million years, found in russia and the people
                                  >> that made the map had to have had air flight and advanced engineering
                                  >> techniques and hydro electricity, due to the dams, this should be the
                                  >> biggest discovery in history but I have not seen anything in the
                                  >> mainstream medis at all, hope this sheds some light on how old humans
                                  >> are and how much has been kept from us, and how many lies have been
                                  >> told to keep the secrets of our origin.
                                  >>
                                  >> http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/04/30/28149.html
                                  >>
                                  >> Tony
                                  >>
                                  >>> --------------------
                                  >>>
                                  >>> From: Rafael André³ Escribano <logofilo@...>
                                  >>> Reply-To: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com
                                  >>> To: <Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com>
                                  >>> Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] book review of cremo's 'the
                                  >>> hidden history of the human race' - [my musings]
                                  >>> Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 09:35:29 -0400
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Hi Mike, all.
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Here's Cremo on giant humans:
                                  >>>
                                  >>> <<I am familiar with the reports of giant skeletons, some with
                                  >>> unusual features like two rows of teeth, being found in the
                                  >>> Midwestern US Indian mounds.  I have not investigated them in detail
                                  >>> for a few reasons.  My main interest is evidence for extreme human
                                  >>> antiquity ? evidence that humans like us existed more than the one or
                                  >>> two hundred thousand years most scientists now accept.  The Indian
                                  >>> mounds are by all accounts fairly recent, within the past couple
                                  >>> thousand years. Second, although the reports are there, I have not
                                  >>> yet seen any of the giant bones referred to, what to speak of those
                                  >>> with two rows of teeth.  If you have any knowledge of where giant
                                  >>> human bones can be seen, let me know.  When I was doing a little
                                  >>> media tour of New Zealand a year or so ago, I learned that there were
                                  >>> supposedly some bones of humans ten feet high in a natural history
                                  >>> museum in Auckland.  But when I showed up to see them, it didn?t
                                  >>> happen.  There were cases in the early nineteenth century when bones
                                  >>> of other animals were identified as human bones.  That is not
                                  >>> necessarily the case with all the discoveries, but one does have to
                                  >>> be careful about this.  Also, even today, there are a few people that
                                  >>> are 7-8 feet tall.  But when you get to 10 feet, that is really
                                  >>> strange.  In any case, I do have an open mind about these
                                  >>> discoveries, and would like to know about any hard evidence that
                                  >>> supports the original reports.
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Sincerely yours,
                                  >>> Michael Cremo
                                  >>>
                                  >>> http://www.mcremo.com/flash.htm >>
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Rafael
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Dr. Rafael André³ Escribano
                                  >>> Hasting BA-8, Garden Hills Norte
                                  >>> Guaynabo, Puerto Rico USA 00966
                                  >>> logofilo@...
                                  >>> www.logofilo.com
                                  >>> 787 221 5615
                                  >>
                                  >>> ----- Original Message -----
                                  >>>
                                  >>> From: mike white
                                  >>>
                                  >>> To: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 4:29 AM
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] book review of cremo's 'the
                                  >>> hidden history of the human race' - [my musings]
                                  >>>
                                  >>> [im a bit concerned that the authors cite so often that 'anatomically
                                  >>> modern human' skeletons have been found in strata over 2 mya, with no
                                  >>> mention of giants.  there is considerable evidence that giant men
                                  >>> did exist.  there were numerous reports of skulls, bones, and even
                                  >>> cemeteries of giants in america.  this is attested by vedic
                                  >>> literature, so im puzzled the authors neglected to research it. 
                                  >>> perhaps their findings were radical enough, without adding further
                                  >>> controversy, but they should go where the facts lead.  how do we date
                                  >>> the time when men were giants?  were men 5-6 ft tall 5 mya, then
                                  >>> giants during pleistocene times, before reverting back to our smaller
                                  >>> frame?  the bones and skulls of giants unearthed in america were not
                                  >>> fossilized, they did turn to dust shortly after exposure to the air. 
                                  >>> would we recognize huge flints as tools of humans, or simply overlook
                                  >>> them?  this is a very important omission, it gives an incomplete
                                  >>> picture of the human race.  the bible, greeks, egyptians, hindus, and
                                  >>> babylonians record the reigns, acts, and deification of the titans. 
                                  >>> they seem to have been on almost every continent.] 
                                  >>>
                                  >>> any comments?
                                  >>>
                                  >>> mike
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Hosted by http://all-ez.com/epigraphy.htm
                                  >>> Group Site : http://www.epigraphyusa.com
                                  >>> To unsubscribe from this group, although we hope
                                  >>> you stay and help us improve.  First consider changing to daily
                                  >>> digest, or no mail - web only, visit main and edit membership :
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                                  >>> Online social science degree
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                                  >>> Social science course
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                                  >>> --------------------
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                                  > you stay and help us improve.  First consider changing to daily digest,
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                                  >
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                                  > --------------------
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                                  www.ruinsofatlantis.com
                                • mike white
                                  [authors included many instances of anomalous finds, such as by the 49ers, which lack the proofs, and are no more credible than the reports of finding giant
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Feb 8, 2006
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                                       [authors included many instances of anomalous finds, such as by the 49ers, which lack the proofs, and are no more credible than the reports of finding giant skulls.  its becoming apparent that they are determined to prove that 'fully modern humans' existed for tens of millions of years.  this is illogical, and perhaps they go too far to disprove evolution.  sure the stone tools that were found 2 mya seem to fit a modern hand, but that does not preclude that physical size did not go up and down during the interim.  i believe that God sizes man appropriately for the size of fauna he must live with in every age.  the toxodon of 2 mya were small, but at 10,000 bce they were huge, there is reason to think that man grew in proportion.  what causes that were in play affected all of the animals, man included.  look at the trilobites, and how many times their size went up and down.  since marine life underwent these size changes too, we must not think that changes in oxygen or the atmosphere, were the key factor.  more likely it was a change in field strength.  imho]
                                       [unconsciously, the researchers probably tend to look for flints and tools that fit the modern hand, overlooking larger masses of flint, thinking they were unworked or natural.] 
                                       [consider the animosity and consequences that some discoverers encountered, because their finds were contrary to current theories - and imagine what would happen had they brought in the tools and weapons of giants.  if they were found by amateurs, they would be ignored, if by professionals, they would be discredited.] 
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                    Kind regards,
                                    Mike White
                                    http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm
                                     
                                    a man might disbelieve something, and prove himself correct. 
                                    another man, believing, caused it to be given to him.
                                  • mike white
                                    [since i was a little critical, i forwarded the last post to michael cremo, so that he has an opportunity to respond.] [it is interesting that at whiteside
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Feb 8, 2006
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                                         [since i was a little critical, i forwarded the last post to michael cremo, so that he has an opportunity to respond.] 
                                         [it is interesting that at whiteside county, illinois, at 120 ft, they found possible ship fittings and boat hook.  there are rivers nearby, but this is about where i think the shore of a former inland sea existed.]
                                         in 1898 at nampa idaho, from 300 ft, well borers brought up a clay female figure.    iron oxide encrusted, showing great age.  [red ocher?]  'general conformity of the object to other relics of man which have been found beneath the lava deposits on the pacific coast.'  plio-pleistocene
                                      [i ask how often did they run the sand pump?  how many feet of debris built up in the tube before they pumped it out?  probably not a significant amount, 20-30 ft maybe.] 
                                         in 1891 a lady in morrisonville, il, broke a coal open to find a gold chain within, of 8 carat gold.  300 mya  [i would question the dating of that geological deposit.  10-50,000 bce is more likely.]
                                         [its good that authors revise human history by including relics left off of the record, and challenging the theories of anthropologists and archeologists, but we also need to challenge the dating of geologists, who still have a gradual-uniformity mindset.  little is gained by a more complete picture of man's artifacts, if we use faulty dating to reference it.  imho] 
                                       
                                      mike
                                       
                                    • mike white
                                      1897 coal miner at webster, iowa, found a stone at 130 ft, that was carved with diamonds, within each was a face of an old man. in 1912 a large chunk of coal
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Feb 8, 2006
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                                           1897 coal miner at webster, iowa, found a stone at 130 ft, that was carved with diamonds, within each was a face of an old man. 
                                           in 1912 a large chunk of coal from the wilburton, ok mines was broke open, and an iron pot fell out.  coal supposedly dated to 312 mya. 
                                           john reid, mining engineer, while prospecting in nevada, found a shoe sole that was fossilized.  a geological date of 213 mya was assigned the deposit. 
                                           [until geologists accept sudden and catastrophic events and revise their chronology, almost all of their datings of strata are worthless.  we now know coal can form in a few thousand years.  another book needs to be written, exposing the wild dating given by geologists.]   
                                           this will interest david : 1928, in a coal mine 2 miles n of heavener, ok, very deep in this 2 mile long mine, blasting disclosed a block wall, made of 12 inch cubes of concrete, all sides polished like a mirror, over 100 yards further the wall or a similar wall was encountered.  the carboniferous coal was dated 286 mya.  the principals are named w.w. mccormick, and a.a. mathis.  reprinted in a book by brad steiger.  [near gloria farley's stomping grounds]
                                           mathis said wilburton, ok [where the iron pot was found too] miners found a 'solid block of silver in the shape of a barrel' with staves.  dated to 300 mya.
                                           1868 a coal mine at hammondville, oh, a slate wall was found, 'carved in bold relief, were several lines of hieroglyphics'.  see book by m.k. jessup 
                                           [i have two books by william corliss, that lists numerous finds such as these.  one is the same referred to by authors, 'ancient man: a handbook of puzzling artifacts'.]
                                           [again, i think we would be misled to accept these dates given by geologists for the strata of these finds.  mammals had not yet appeared by 300 mya, as far as i can determine.] 
                                          
                                        Kind regards,
                                        Mike White
                                        http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm
                                         
                                          
                                      • mike white
                                        [maybe im alone in thinking this way, but i think that when human relics are found in a strata dated 300 mya, the geologists should be told, so that the age of
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Feb 8, 2006
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                                             [maybe im alone in thinking this way, but i think that when human relics are found in a strata dated 300 mya, the geologists should be told, so that the age of the strata might be reduced accordingly.  im a mystic, as well as an antiquarian, no expert in any field, but wide-read enough to be entitled to an opinion.  i try to be open-minded and liberal, but i have difficulty conceiving of humans in a recognizable form before 15 mya, certainly no 'fully modern humans'. 
                                             thats more than adequate time for the record thus far found.  remember that the current culture went from the dark ages to the space age in about 500 years.  this growth of civilization could have occurred 30,000 times in that period. 
                                             philosophically, one might say that we sang and danced together before this world was created, giving man 6 billion years in this system.  and his progress from an atom of hydrogen, up thru the kingdoms, might be suggested.  then, where was man before entering this solar system? 
                                            the consideration was given as modern man.  he was always bipolar, but one might expect that his form and features did change and alter over time.  fully modern human is going too far, when speaking about the age of the earliest and crudest eolites.  he may have been about the same size, but probably hairier, a different shape skull and teeth, and more ability in using the toes. 
                                             cayce told of men having a global conference to discuss and share the highest wisdom, circa 10 mya.  he noted that the men of the sahara were a high culture, leaving mounds and records, but they had tails 10 mya.  both of these cultures sound too advanced to be using crude and primitive stone tools.  we might place them in advanced paleolithic, or neolithic, but it dont seem right.  the inca and aztec used flint and obsidian tools, but their sciences and arts were very advanced. 
                                             i think we are studying the missing links, and are thinking they are man.  what confuses us is that we have been conditioned to believe man started as a primitive brute or a monkey, and has evolved and progressed in a linear fashion over the ages, to arrive at the modern perfection.  cremo would have them much like modern man for long ages.  i believe the old truth, that we began in the golden age, and have degraded as we passed thru time, arriving at the modern man of clay, who has passed his lowpoint, and is cycling upward in perfection. 
                                             so maybe we look for the wrong relics?  our scientists might be surprised one day, when they discover relics denoting a culture higher than our own.  these stone-age tools might reflect the lowpoint of man.  far below that strata, might be levels where cultures become more advanced, the deeper that is dug.   thus the paleolithic tools could be from either the lowpoint of man, or sub-human mixtures and failed offshoots, or both. 
                                             the vedic sages and the lamas may interpret their books to accept hundreds of millions of years for man, but its possible that the ancient sages thought it necessary to veil and confuse the chronology of mans history, as given to us profane.  i think they added some zeroes. 
                                             our brain core is reptilian, so one might expect that during the age of reptiles, man was a reptile.  if we put fully modern man in the reptilian age in our thinking, then when was he using his reptilian brain?  before that age doesnt compute, but he may have began as a reptile after the age of reptiles, which seems more likely.  he may have attained his modern body features by 10 mya, but i doubt it. 
                                             i think it was possible for unlike creatures to breed in the earliest ages, producing ape-man, centaurs and such.  this was before noah i believe.  maybe part of why there was a flood.  there were many mixtures and monstrosities.  its quite possible that they were able to make and use stone tools.  this is my belief, i need not defend it.  each can think what they will.  sometime between 26,000 bce and 10,000 bce, i believe that God changed our chromosones, to prevent such unnatural couplings. 
                                             i think that we are looking at the tools and weapons of the mixtures and sub-humans.  the anomalous finds of gold, and iron relics, like brought up from deep by the 49ers, and in illinois, are the relics of true archaic man.  the 5 adams likely began on 5 continents at the same time, about 10.5 mya.  i was influenced by cayce in arriving at this thinking. 
                                              i will try to be fair in my review, but had to voice my opinion.  the book has been edifying.  it made me think and consider what i trully believe about man's earliest prehistory. 
                                             the wonderful artifacts are being brought up from tremendously deep strata, 120 to 300 feet covers them.  not very many digs have excavated that deep.  our few finds have been from mines and well borings.  the ruins and relics could be widespread from these high cultures so long ago, for us to hit them by coring, and find them within coal and limestone. 
                                             i apolgize for such a long piece of my musings, instead of citing the book. 
                                             i know most disagree with my take, and thats fine.  ]
                                           
                                          Kind regards,
                                          Mike White
                                          http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm
                                           
                                           
                                        • mike white
                                          [ we should note that the advanced cultures discovered deeply buried across america did use copper and iron. so much of the missing copper may be buried 120
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Feb 8, 2006
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                                              [ we should note that the advanced cultures discovered deeply buried across america did use copper and iron.  so much of the missing copper may be buried 120 to 300 feet deep in buried cities of this lost civilization.  
                                               all of the oil wells that have been drilled across america, one  might expect that they hit artifacts quite often, but im not aware of any reports.  business concerns do not want to be delayed by archeologists, so probably dont report these finds.  what a loss to science for the almighty buck.  
                                               it might behoove archeologists to find likely sites, like wilburton, il, and drill systematic 6 inch coring as deep as 350 ft.  after passing the upper hardpan it should go easy.  it would be better if they had an improved method to bring up cores, to improve upon the sand pump.  these round balls of clay covered by red ocher mentioned by cremo probably had been artifacts before the water and pump disturbed them.  lets hope they use core samples like are used on glaciers.  its incredible that they have not made a search for more relics from this lost high culture.  its the crazy dates given by the geologists that has made them turn their backs on these sites.
                                               table mt in california is begging for researchers to seek out more deeply buried relics.  the existing tunnel systems should aid the digs. 
                                               these sites are where we need to look for the earliest americans, not some hunting campsite of paleo hunters who never lifted out of the stone age. 
                                               then we will never hear again the crossing from asia nonsense proposed for 12,000 bce.  ]
                                             
                                            mike
                                             
                                             
                                          • mike white
                                            in 1968 w.j. meister, an amateur trilobite collector, split some shale, and found a shoe print. shale formation dated about 550 mya. sounds like the
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Feb 9, 2006
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                                                 in 1968 w.j. meister, an amateur trilobite collector, split some shale, and found a shoe print.  shale formation dated about 550 mya.  sounds like the trilobites were small then, near antelope spring utah.  
                                                 [we must consider that there are very ancient formations now at the surface of the earth.  our soil today in some places has ancient marine deposits.  now when modern man walks upon it, buries his dead, etc., this does not mean that the footprints, bones, and debris on that surface were contemporary with the original deposit.  i hope im understood.  so modern humans may have tread a strata in 12,000 bce, that was a 500 mya deposit. ]   
                                                 [even the amount of cover is not a totally reliable indicator of great age.  in idaho and california, volcanic events a mere 5,000 years ago could have deposited 100s of feet atop the previous land surface in a matter of days.] 
                                                
                                              mike
                                               
                                            • mike white
                                              some of the finds of modern human bones do seem to have been part of the ancient strata when it was originally laid down. this seems to be true in
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Feb 9, 2006
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                                                   some of the finds of modern human bones do seem to have been part of the ancient strata when it was originally laid down.  this seems to be true in castenedolo, italy, found by ragazzoni in 1875.  3-4 mya
                                                   [ i should make it clear that i neither favor evolution or creationism completely, as currently understood.  i think God created the universe.  i dont believe we had monkey ancestors, and am aware that darwin never suggested we did.  on the other hand, it is clear that all animals evolve and adapt, and there is no reason to exclude man, who was exposed to the same factors.  i think man has changed physically over the ages, and its unlikely that man of 3 mya could be found fully modern.  there are differences that our limited history has given in physical man, his size has changed from 5 ft to gigantic proportions, and reduced again to the modern stature.  around pacifica ancient men apparently had long ears.  around atlantica, the dolichocephalic skulls are widely found in ancient deposits, most date to late pleistocene.   one thing that has not changed, and is eternal, is the soul of man.  it is the pattern for physical man, but the merciful Lord makes adjustments to the physical to better adapt it to its environment.  its not strictly survival of the fittest, and blind adapting to surroundings.  the latter changes are apt to be too slow to preserve the species, where divine intervention in the womb can make rapid alterations.  evolution without God is ignorant.  this is why evolution leaves so many enigmas, such as total extinctions, with deep sterile layers over it, and the unexplainable appearance of new species, much different from those before, as if spontaneous and without parents.  chances are that most of the lesser primates are breeding mistakes of ancient man, and not ancestors.  we must realize there is physical man exposed to the flux of change, and spiritual man basically unchangeable.   everything in the world is changing and becoming.  late pleistocene man was the end product of evolution for that great cycle that ended about 10,000 bce.  modern man seems to be at the mid-point of the about 25,000 year great cycle.  the first half of the cycle was a retrograde or downturn of civilization and evolvement.  we have passed the bottom, and have been making upward progress for a few thousand years, but have a long way to go in evolution, physically, mentally, and spiritually - imho. ] 
                                                   [they have decided that neanderthal was not a human ancestor, but they allege that cro magnon was.  cro magnon suddenly appeared circa 30,000 bce.  later i hope to study this deeper, for now i dont think he is in our family tree.  if the data uncovered by authors is correct, there were modern men millions of years before cro magnon.] 
                                                   holmes, a debunker from the smithsonian, pointed out, 'that bones can become fossilized over the course of a few hundred or thousand years.'  on the calaveras skull.  [men were miners in early ages, and in gold gravels, one might expect to find them.  they may have tunneled in to the ore deposit of 50 mya, died there, and traces of the mine filled in.  the miners may date to 8,000 bce.] 
                                                   [p148  im losing interest in this book.  maybe not the fault of the authors, just that i lack interest in detailed accounts of the discovery of bones, and tend to not believe the key issue that modern humans existed into the miocene.  i apologize for getting only half thru the review of this book.] 
                                                   [ possibly, its because im so anxious to learn more about the discovery of advanced relics being recovered from very deep deposits. 
                                                   the next book may be by william corliss, 'ancient man : a handbook of puzzling artifacts'.  ]
                                                  
                                                Kind regards,
                                                Mike White
                                                http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm
                                                 
                                                a man might disbelieve something, and prove himself correct. 
                                                another man, believing, caused it to be given to him.
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