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Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] book review : frank hibben's 'the lost americans'

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  • mike white
    my bison looks closer to those depicted in the altamira cave of 14,000 years ago. much older than the tang dy of 600-900 ce. if so, its value is much
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 1, 2005
         my bison looks closer to those depicted in the altamira cave of 14,000 years ago.   much older than the tang dy of 600-900 ce.   if so, its value is much greater, if authentic.  it certainly is not a water buffalo. 
         dr hibben mentions that the first question people ask when any ancient relic is found is 'how old is it?'   this compels scientists to make an educated guess, sometimes not so erudite.   it might be wiser for them to sometimes admit the age is unknown. 
         like the petroglyphs rafael showed us from the san rafael swell.  they classified them as drawn by the fremont culture fairly recently.  several years ago i read cayce as saying that men of 10 million years ago left drawings in the four corners area of the southwest, that could still be seen to the present day.  he never indicated the specifics.  out of curiosity i reviewed rock art over the area.  it was my opinion then, and now, that a series of drawings were the work of this group.  they include those at horseshoe canyon, and the similar ones at the san rafael swell.  these are distinctive and unique, depicting long robed men. 
         i realize that spending time on subjects like atlantis, and men contemporary with dinosaurs, open us somewhat to ridicule , but the evidence for both is compelling enough to warrant a fair hearing, and an open discussion.  its very possible that our experts are wrong on both issues.  the preponderance of evidence begs us to consider the alternative views.  its more incredible that the extinctions of so many species would have been complete, than it is that some species survived much longer.  the dinosaurs may have persisted down to pleistocene times, and mankind may have began earlier than thought.  the evidence denying these possibilities is no stronger, than those supporting the contentions.  better to stand on the minority side, than be classed with a foolish majority, until hard proofs come forth that are undeniable.  the march of science keeps pushing back the advent of man.  its almost a joke now to continue to call the americas the 'new world'.  that asians populated the americas, when we keep finding older cities and relics in the americas than have been found in china.  as a simple truth seeker, none of my theories are carved in stone.  they are daily subject to change, as i weigh the facts and investigate the possibilities.   in my writings i have noticed that the strong case that i built some years before gets altered as new findings come forth.  some might see this as a weakness to my scholarship, but i think it proves the honesty of my search for truth.  i dont supress proofs contrary to my views, i alter my opinions.  im anxious to explore south america and mexico, to see firsthand the ruins and relics.  who knows, i may change my mind on giants, atlantis, and contemporary dinosaurs - but i really think i will become more convinced. 
      Kind regards,
      Mike White
    • mike white
      ice age american, or paleo-indians author seems to hold that all evidence of mankind at sandia dates to the vacillations of the last ice age. as if they
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 1, 2005
           'ice age american, or 'paleo-indians' '  author seems to hold that all evidence of mankind at sandia dates to the vacillations of the last ice age.  as if they are more credible by saying, near the end of the last ice age. 
           [i disagree, and find their premise illogical.  they have in sandia cave deposits spanning tens of thousands of years.  authors tells us that the lower sandia men used their own brand of points during a dry spell, that followed a wet, hunting one species of bison and other game.  we are talking about major climate changes happening 4 times.  the slow changing point styles underwent several major changes, indicating a very long time.  the climate changed to wet again, laying a thick layer of yellow ochre, taking thousands of years for drip water to do in a cave.  above that were the folsom people, with their refined points, a different species of bison to hunt.  then after this dry spell, another wet laying down several inches of travertine limestone.  we could be looking at occupations during different ice ages, imho.  the undisturbed yellow ochre layer, and the travertine, each may have taken 10,000 years to lay down.   it indicates more dramatic changes were happening, than the slow advance and retreat of a glacier during the same ice age.  hunters and game were more than inconvenienced, they disappeared from the land, and were replaced much later by others quite different.   i would guess we are looking at 50,000 years of history at sandia cave.  
           dr hibben was ahead of his time in his open-minded work in alaska, but was held by the same academic restraints placed on his contemporaries.   this 1946 book had a major update by hibben in 1968.  but much has changed in the last 37 years, and its telling in the text.   not as much change as needed, but progress nevertheless.]   
           [its remarkably strange that all of these cultures, who did not share weapon making skills, did know and use the atlatl.  the spear throwers were of perishable wood, while the points were of stone.  somehow the perishable was preserved, while the permanent was lost.]   
           "  To the best of our knowledge, the spearthrower was never used in either Africa or mainland Asia, but there are terms for it. " 
           [that kind of dashes the out of africa or asia theories.   im amazed that the atlatl use reached thru pacifica.  in other regions it could have been following the herds.  there was no need for it to have been carried between islands in modern times, which suggests knowledge of the atlatl may predate the sinking of lemuria, ca 50,000 bce.] 
           [im not certain the above quote is entirely true.  prorok found identical flint weapons thru the sahara, to those he met with in mexico.  if the changeable flint points were the same, no doubt they used the persistent atlatl as well.  it was no doubt used in russia and siberia.  it was possibly carried to these places from the americas, imho.  during paleo times the teeming dense populations were in central and south america, not in china or siberia.  the finds in nm seem far older than any in the sahara.  as far as i know the atlatl was not shown on the ica stones.  not sure how that bold guy climbed onto the pterodon's back.  i can see how he kept his seat, waving the flint knife before its eyes.]
           [i laughed at von daniken and his spaceships landing at nazca, now ive lived long enough to suppose that men flew over the nazca plains on pterodon's backs.  oh my!  lol] 

        Kind regards,
        Mike White
      • mike white
        cultural similarity was reported for our northwest tribes and the maori of nz and the japanese. the russians when first encountering these tribes found them
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 1, 2005
             cultural similarity was reported for our northwest tribes and the maori of nz and the japanese.  the russians when first encountering these tribes found them in possession of brass chinese coins.  the currents bring debris from asia to these shores. 
             [hibben based his ideas of development in the americas solely on his examination of primitive hunter cultures.  from this basis he easily dismissed all possibility for the existence of atlantis and lemuria.   he doesnt attempt to consider that the maya apparently had a very accurate calendar by the start of their long count in 3107 bce.  he didnt factor in the great antiquity of the cultures of south america.  his sandia man did not build tiwanaku or the various other megaliths of the americas that may have been built before the folsom point was perfected.  it would be like us going to africa and judging the cultural development of the continent based on zulu technology, while ignoring the culture of egypt.  the hunter nomads moved so much following game, that one group may account for dozens of sites where points were found.  we have no reason to think that these primitives ever represented a majority of the total population of the americas.  there is more reason to think these hunter groups were break-away tribes that left the andean region, and developed a sustainable life style using the atlatl technology that they brought from their parent culture in south america.  just as incan expansion forced a major exodus of the tribes into the north closer to historical times.  the landbridge was at panama, not at the bering straits, imho.]   
             author says antarctica contains enough ice that if spread over the entire globe, it would be 120 ft thick. 
             he confirms folsom points were found in canada, and tries to make a case that this confirms they crossed the bering straits.  this, despite the fact that he has previously stated that folsom points were refined in new mexico.  it seems more likely that hunters went north following herds, and this accounts for folsom points found far to the north.  unless we think that he had folsom technology when he entered the americas, but later forgot it, and then relearned it in nm. 
             we have reached the muck belts of alaska now in the story.  he seems to posit that the piles of megafauna were all local alaska denizens.  a folsom point was found near cook inlet.  he gives the muck deposits a date of 20,000 years.  one non-fluted point was found in the muck so far. 
          Kind regards,
          Mike White
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