Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: book review : velikovsky's 'worlds in collision' - my musings

Expand Messages
  • mike white
    the magical papyrus harris speaks of a cosmic upheaval of fire and water, when the south becomes north, and the earth turns over. again, he adds a little
    Message 1 of 28 , May 5, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
       
         'the magical papyrus harris speaks of a cosmic upheaval of fire and water, when 'the south becomes north, and the earth turns over.' 
         again, he adds a little more from the papyrus ipuwer : 'the land turns round [over] as does a potter's wheel', and the 'earth turned upside down''.  also see the 'ermitage papyrus'.  'harakhte, he riseth in the west.' 
         'in the tomb of senmut, the architect of queen hapshepsut', the ceiling zodiac shows 'a reversed orientation', of the southern sky.'   author says chart became obsolete a few centuries after her reign.  'orion appears west of sirius instead of east'.  [ive heard the zodiac ceiling in the upper room at denderah also shows the stars from the perspective of before and after a poleshift.  this could cause me to falter, if its true, and the dating is reliable.   if author adds his 600 years to hatshepsut, wont it be prior to 1500 bce?] 
         plato in 'the statesman' :  'at certain periods the universe has its present circular motion, and at other periods it revolves in the reverse direction.'  'of all the changes which take place in the heavens this reversal is the greatest and most complete.'   it appears to relate to the time of atreus. 
         strabo has atreus be an early astronomer who 'discovered that the sun revolves in a direction opposite to the movement of the heavens.' 
         [human remembrance seems to recall the period of a full polar reversal, but was it 1500 bce, or 50,000 bce?   if there was a reversal in 1500 bc, and a return reversal in 687 bc, the poles stood reversed 813 years, but if at -747 and -687, only 60 years.  both of these periods are in historical times.  it should be easier to find accounts of the event with accurate dating.  star charts and zodiacs should be more plentiful, showing the reverse order.  the two in egypt are all ive heard about.  i expect if we find such a zodiac, it may be 52,000 years old.  it will likely be found in peru.]  
         [if a poleshift happened near the time of the trojan war, why did homer not give notice of the stars doing a reverse course?]   
         [author puts this period of reversed poles near the end of the zodiacal age of aries the ram.  why didnt ramses the great speak of it?  or hammurabi?  or sargon?  or the shang?  the book is valuable, author demonstrates genius often enough for me to keep reading, even though i remain unconvinced as to dating a close encounter with a comet in 1500 bce, 747 bce, or 687 bce.  its certain that cosmic events have occurred much more often than thought by the many.  lets examine the red clay a moment.  why would gravity throw clay at us first, early in the close encounter?  are we to think that clay is found on the surface of comets and meteors?  if so, why would sticky clay lift off before sand or gravel?  not so i think, it may be a product of cumbustion, from passing thru the atmosphere.  the 'smitherines' of larger rocks, hard, of iron and nickle, mostly, just as in nature there are anomalous rocks too.  seems like scientists would wonder why iridium does not appear from observed combustion of stone and ore upon earth.   seems safer to say that most of the quantity of entire species go extinct during the historical and prehistoric extinctions.  its rather difficult to have an extinction presumably from poleshift ca 10,000 bce, of the complete megafauna, and then find large mammals in florida ca 3,000 bce.  i see no reason to revise the approximate date of the poleshift, or of the majority of the megafauna.  the footprint of a polar cap will not cover distant places of earth on the same event.  im puzzled by greenland remaining frozen with an icecap 2 miles thick.  it does not appear close enough to the pole to be that cold, in its southern half.  why does the glacier not move or retreat?  the north polar cap is indistinct on my globe.  instead of being centered upon the north magnetic or true north pole, is far off center toward greenland.  its as if the current alignment is too new to have a north polar cap, and retains most of the remnant of its former polar cap.  that is a tremendous mass to be that far removed from the north pole, and must lead to terrible imbalances.  the south pole of antarctica looks near center of its polar cap.  man should melt the southern glacier away, at a controlled rate.  i will try to find a proper chart of the extent and position of the northern ice.  my globe may not show ice mass, just continents.  i hope measuring paleomagnetism becomes standard routine on expeditions and digs, as well as magnetic dip on artifacts.  it may be that there is another explanation for the reversed magnetic dip of the etruscan and greek pottery, if the effect is not found worldwide. logically it would only require a poleshift of 35 degrees max, to show a reversed magnetic dip, in it then becomes closer to the south than the north pole.  velikovsky failed to see the inadequacy of the magnetic dip in determining the degree of poleshift.  he thought it indicated a 180 degree reversal.  i dont deny the amount of global destruction that may occur with a poleshift of 30 degrees.  the seas may cross some continents.  it would be startling if he can establish either a poleshift or comet collision from 1500 bce to 687 bce.  i have to admit that the 3 three men from different continents thrown together by a wave into a cave in the hills of ne china, that was recorded in chinese annals from king yahou, may be good proof if a date can be established.   we will see better signs of such a disaster, and not have to rely upon the magnetic dip of pottery.  an effect like the flooding of the black sea, they tag at 5500 bce.  which seems to be the same era cayce gave indirectly for the trojan war and the exodus.  i would expect both authors to have warned mankind of poleshift in these almost divine accounts, instead of plagues, and lengthy wanderings.  the bible does have the poleshift message, but in less prominent places.  he mentioned a large impact crater in labrador from 3,000 bce.  if greenland has 142,000 layers of ice, does it follow that it has been ice covered for 142,000 years?  it should have in the ice cores the debris from the impact that near it.  its a violent and unstable world that we live on.  researchers say its the present peacefulness that is the anomaly.   the ice on antarctica seems to be 174,000 years old.  there seems to be few points in the southern heavens to attract the southern pole, than the black clouds.  where the north seems to move more.  thats illogical that both dont relocate two new axis poles, but the ice mass into lower latitudes of greenland could maybe cause such a phenomena.]
       
       
      Kind regards,
      Mike White
      http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm

       
    • Randall Arnold
      This is some powerful, incredible stuff! I m working on a novel trilogy that will make much use of this material. Mike, you will definitely be credited!
      Message 2 of 28 , May 5, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        This is some powerful, incredible stuff!
         
        I'm working on a novel trilogy that will make much use of this material.  Mike, you will definitely be credited!
         
        Randall (Randy) Arnold


        From: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mike white
        Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 2:46 AM
        To: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: book review : velikovsky's 'worlds in collision' - my musings

         
           'the magical papyrus harris speaks of a cosmic upheaval of fire and water, when 'the south becomes north, and the earth turns over.' 
           again, he adds a little more from the papyrus ipuwer : 'the land turns round [over] as does a potter's wheel', and the 'earth turned upside down''.  also see the 'ermitage papyrus'.  'harakhte, he riseth in the west.' 
           'in the tomb of senmut, the architect of queen hapshepsut', the ceiling zodiac shows 'a reversed orientation', of the southern sky.'   author says chart became obsolete a few centuries after her reign.  'orion appears west of sirius instead of east'.  [ive heard the zodiac ceiling in the upper room at denderah also shows the stars from the perspective of before and after a poleshift.  this could cause me to falter, if its true, and the dating is reliable.   if author adds his 600 years to hatshepsut, wont it be prior to 1500 bce?] 
           plato in 'the statesman' :  'at certain periods the universe has its present circular motion, and at other periods it revolves in the reverse direction.'  'of all the changes which take place in the heavens this reversal is the greatest and most complete.'   it appears to relate to the time of atreus. 
           strabo has atreus be an early astronomer who 'discovered that the sun revolves in a direction opposite to the movement of the heavens.' 
           [human remembrance seems to recall the period of a full polar reversal, but was it 1500 bce, or 50,000 bce?   if there was a reversal in 1500 bc, and a return reversal in 687 bc, the poles stood reversed 813 years, but if at -747 and -687, only 60 years.  both of these periods are in historical times.  it should be easier to find accounts of the event with accurate dating.  star charts and zodiacs should be more plentiful, showing the reverse order.  the two in egypt are all ive heard about.  i expect if we find such a zodiac, it may be 52,000 years old.  it will likely be found in peru.]  
           [if a poleshift happened near the time of the trojan war, why did homer not give notice of the stars doing a reverse course?]   
           [author puts this period of reversed poles near the end of the zodiacal age of aries the ram.  why didnt ramses the great speak of it?  or hammurabi?  or sargon?  or the shang?  the book is valuable, author demonstrates genius often enough for me to keep reading, even though i remain unconvinced as to dating a close encounter with a comet in 1500 bce, 747 bce, or 687 bce.  its certain that cosmic events have occurred much more often than thought by the many.  lets examine the red clay a moment.  why would gravity throw clay at us first, early in the close encounter?  are we to think that clay is found on the surface of comets and meteors?  if so, why would sticky clay lift off before sand or gravel?  not so i think, it may be a product of cumbustion, from passing thru the atmosphere.  the 'smitherines' of larger rocks, hard, of iron and nickle, mostly, just as in nature there are anomalous rocks too.  seems like scientists would wonder why iridium does not appear from observed combustion of stone and ore upon earth.   seems safer to say that most of the quantity of entire species go extinct during the historical and prehistoric extinctions.  its rather difficult to have an extinction presumably from poleshift ca 10,000 bce, of the complete megafauna, and then find large mammals in florida ca 3,000 bce.  i see no reason to revise the approximate date of the poleshift, or of the majority of the megafauna.  the footprint of a polar cap will not cover distant places of earth on the same event.  im puzzled by greenland remaining frozen with an icecap 2 miles thick.  it does not appear close enough to the pole to be that cold, in its southern half.  why does the glacier not move or retreat?  the north polar cap is indistinct on my globe.  instead of being centered upon the north magnetic or true north pole, is far off center toward greenland.  its as if the current alignment is too new to have a north polar cap, and retains most of the remnant of its former polar cap.  that is a tremendous mass to be that far removed from the north pole, and must lead to terrible imbalances.  the south pole of antarctica looks near center of its polar cap.  man should melt the southern glacier away, at a controlled rate.  i will try to find a proper chart of the extent and position of the northern ice.  my globe may not show ice mass, just continents.  i hope measuring paleomagnetism becomes standard routine on expeditions and digs, as well as magnetic dip on artifacts.  it may be that there is another explanation for the reversed magnetic dip of the etruscan and greek pottery, if the effect is not found worldwide. logically it would only require a poleshift of 35 degrees max, to show a reversed magnetic dip, in it then becomes closer to the south than the north pole.  velikovsky failed to see the inadequacy of the magnetic dip in determining the degree of poleshift.  he thought it indicated a 180 degree reversal.  i dont deny the amount of global destruction that may occur with a poleshift of 30 degrees.  the seas may cross some continents.  it would be startling if he can establish either a poleshift or comet collision from 1500 bce to 687 bce.  i have to admit that the 3 three men from different continents thrown together by a wave into a cave in the hills of ne china, that was recorded in chinese annals from king yahou, may be good proof if a date can be established.   we will see better signs of such a disaster, and not have to rely upon the magnetic dip of pottery.  an effect like the flooding of the black sea, they tag at 5500 bce.  which seems to be the same era cayce gave indirectly for the trojan war and the exodus.  i would expect both authors to have warned mankind of poleshift in these almost divine accounts, instead of plagues, and lengthy wanderings.  the bible does have the poleshift message, but in less prominent places.  he mentioned a large impact crater in labrador from 3,000 bce.  if greenland has 142,000 layers of ice, does it follow that it has been ice covered for 142,000 years?  it should have in the ice cores the debris from the impact that near it.  its a violent and unstable world that we live on.  researchers say its the present peacefulness that is the anomaly.   the ice on antarctica seems to be 174,000 years old.  there seems to be few points in the southern heavens to attract the southern pole, than the black clouds.  where the north seems to move more.  thats illogical that both dont relocate two new axis poles, but the ice mass into lower latitudes of greenland could maybe cause such a phenomena.]
         
         
        Kind regards,
        Mike White
        http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm

         


        Hosted by http://all-ez.com/epigraphy.htm
        Group Site : http://www.epigraphyusa.com
        To unsubscribe from this group, although we hope
        you stay and help us improve.  First consider changing to daily digest, or no mail - web only, visit main and edit membership :
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions
        if you must leave send an email to:
        Precolumbian_Inscriptions-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com




        --
        No virus found in this incoming message.
        Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
        Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.5 - Release Date: 5/4/2005


        --
        No virus found in this outgoing message.
        Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
        Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.5 - Release Date: 5/4/2005

      • mike white
        tevel is the hebrew name for the world in which the sun rose in the west. arabot is the name of the sky where the rising point was in the west. references
        Message 3 of 28 , May 6, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
           
             'tevel is the hebrew name for the world in which the sun rose in the west.  arabot is the name of the sky where the rising point was in the west.' 
             'references to the reversal of the movement of the sun that have been gathered here do not refer to one and the same time'.   [over and over author uses 'reversal' in place of 'poleshift', as if all were 180 degree reversals.]  
             'herodotus in egypt speaks of four reversals.'   
             'a thunderbolt, on striking a magnet, reverses the poles of the magnet.' 
             'a short circuit between it and another celestial body could result in the north and south magnetic poles of the earth exchanging places.' 
             'older rocks are less strongly magnetized than more recent ones.' 
             [author seems to state that as basalt is heated it assumes a reversed polarity, and many times stronger.  possibly a very high temperature may trigger a magnetic reversal in a heated fluid?  if that is so, maybe those 8th and 7th bce vases were heated superhot.  this would be harmful to author's main premise.]   [the thunderbolt reversing polarity, and other things seem to connect a field reversal to high temperature.  im about to abandon the -747 and -687bce events, based on a reversal on those dates, taken by magnetic dip on vases of etruscan and greek.  its beyond me why he clung to those so recent dates?   he admits in text to knowing that magnetic dip indicates the prevailing field that the hot matter assumes when dry and hard, and tells which pole the kiln was closest to.  so one gets the reading of either north or south. 
             humboldt took magnetic dip readings, that could soon come in very handy.  i sure would like to find in english, his 'views on nature'.  the measurements were in titles of science, and probably little consulted.  i think i could market copies of humboldt's map showing great detail of the andes.  like prorok, he began his voyage of discovery in his mid twenties, and his fame was established.  its pleasant when one's travel is a commercial success, ask mark twain.  lol 
             if all of the iron meteorites had come from mars, it would have wasted away long ago. 
             ive reminded to mention the fibonaci series in numbers, that we've discussed before.  1,2,3,5,8,13,21, etc.  these are found throughout nature, like the plans of the creator.  by them it is known that venus is in an assigned orbit station, and a planet is missing where now is the asteroid belt.  the majority of its mass is unaccounted for.  there have probably been numerous incidents with this debris, and about 500 remain as comets.  this seems more logical to me, than having them mysteriously ejected from the ort cloud or whatever. 
             i wonder what percent of the red clay is terrestrial? 
           
            
             an iron-nickel meteorite was found on mars from the asteroid belt.  the planets are passing debris from a third. 
           
           
          Kind regards,
          Mike White
          http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm
           
           
        • mobydoc
          Hy Mike etal ; Could a magnetic reversal cause the Magnetosphere to collapse ... would this make us humans that survived the radiation splash from our Sun ..
          Message 4 of 28 , May 6, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            Hy Mike etal ;
                   Could a magnetic reversal cause the Magnetosphere  to collapse  ...
                   would this make us humans that survived the radiation splash from our Sun ..
                   to rely on our old brain ( Cerebellum)...as it is our 'Bios' ...we would have
                  to waite  for our 'new' brain (Cortex ) to reprogram itself ....and stop acting
                   like the other  animals on earth ...primitive ...who attack each other with
               great gusto ....is this the reason the Sages of old whore  'Gold' skull caps ....
                so their skulls (brains) never got eradiated ....( just a theory to ponder on )  :-)
             
                                                      Pat / Moby
          • mike white
            you bring up some interesting points pat. the paleomagnetic people say the stratas show a collapse of the old field, before the field returns in a reversed
            Message 5 of 28 , May 6, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
               
                 you bring up some interesting points pat.  the paleomagnetic people say the stratas show a collapse of the old field, before the field returns in a reversed direction. 
                 in my article on 'poleshift - and the interim of chaos', it was brought up that the three-fold forces imparted by the solar winds at earth's poles, may be disrupted for a time, after the move begins to relocate the axis, and before the new axis is established.  the disturbed forces are electricity, magnetism, and gravity.  these weakened fields may allow the seas to leave their beds.  the human brain is electro-chemical in operation.  our mind may need an electrical-magnetic field to function properly, and its theoretically possible that it may be forced to rely on primitive instincts in our brain core, during the interim of chaos.   lets hope we are all early getting to our mountain caves, and not crash deposited by a wave.   during the fright of the recent tsunami, a phd instinctively followed the monkeys up the hills, and survived. 
               
               
              Kind regards,
              Mike White
              http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: mobydoc
              Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 4:24 AM
              Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: book review : velikovsky's 'worlds in collision' - my musings

              Hy Mike etal ;
                     Could a magnetic reversal cause the Magnetosphere  to collapse  ...
                     would this make us humans that survived the radiation splash from our Sun ..
                     to rely on our old brain ( Cerebellum)...as it is our 'Bios' ...we would have
                    to waite  for our 'new' brain (Cortex ) to reprogram itself ....and stop acting
                     like the other  animals on earth ...primitive ...who attack each other with
                 great gusto ....is this the reason the Sages of old whore  'Gold' skull caps ....
                  so their skulls (brains) never got eradiated ....( just a theory to ponder on )  :-)
               
                                                        Pat / Moby


              Hosted by http://all-ez.com/epigraphy.htm
              Group Site : http://www.epigraphyusa.com
              To unsubscribe from this group, although we hope
              you stay and help us improve.  First consider changing to daily digest, or no mail - web only, visit main and edit membership :
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions
              if you must leave send an email to:
              Precolumbian_Inscriptions-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



            • mobydoc
              Hy Mike and guys ; The way people act ...road rage ...home invasions ...sporting wars ....there seems to be no end to the violence ...if its not the teams
              Message 6 of 28 , May 6, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                   Hy Mike  and guys ;
                     The way people act ...road rage ...home invasions ...sporting wars ....there
                     seems to be no end to the violence ...if its not the teams that are smacking
                    themselve around ...its the spectators ...even boxing (what rules ).!!!!
                      I think its about time this old phart got a younger bod ...with a gnu brain ^~^
                 
                                                     Pat / Moby
                    
                ----- Original Message -----
                Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: book review : velikovsky's 'worlds in collision' - my musings

                 
                   you bring up some interesting points pat.  the paleomagnetic people say the stratas show a collapse of the old field, before the field returns in a reversed direction. 
                   in my article on 'poleshift - and the interim of chaos', it was brought up that the three-fold forces imparted by the solar winds at earth's poles, may be disrupted for a time, after the move begins to relocate the axis, and before the new axis is established.  the disturbed forces are electricity, magnetism, and gravity.  these weakened fields may allow the seas to leave their beds.  the human brain is electro-chemical in operation.  our mind may need an electrical-magnetic field to function properly, and its theoretically possible that it may be forced to rely on primitive instincts in our brain core, during the interim of chaos.   lets hope we are all early getting to our mountain caves, and not crash deposited by a wave.   during the fright of the recent tsunami, a phd instinctively followed the monkeys up the hills, and survived. 
                 
                 
                Kind regards,
                Mike White
                http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm
                 
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: mobydoc
                Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 4:24 AM
                Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: book review : velikovsky's 'worlds in collision' - my musings

                Hy Mike etal ;
                       Could a magnetic reversal cause the Magnetosphere  to collapse  ...
                       would this make us humans that survived the radiation splash from our Sun ..
                       to rely on our old brain ( Cerebellum)...as it is our 'Bios' ...we would have
                      to waite  for our 'new' brain (Cortex ) to reprogram itself ....and stop acting
                       like the other  animals on earth ...primitive ...who attack each other with
                   great gusto ....is this the reason the Sages of old whore  'Gold' skull caps ....
                    so their skulls (brains) never got eradiated ....( just a theory to ponder on )  :-)
                 
                                                          Pat / Moby


                Hosted by http://all-ez.com/epigraphy.htm
                Group Site : http://www.epigraphyusa.com
                To unsubscribe from this group, although we hope
                you stay and help us improve.  First consider changing to daily digest, or no mail - web only, visit main and edit membership :
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions
                if you must leave send an email to:
                Precolumbian_Inscriptions-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com





                Hosted by http://all-ez.com/epigraphy.htm
                Group Site : http://www.epigraphyusa.com
                To unsubscribe from this group, although we hope
                you stay and help us improve.  First consider changing to daily digest, or no mail - web only, visit main and edit membership :
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions
                if you must leave send an email to:
                Precolumbian_Inscriptions-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



              • mike white
                herodotus and mela say that according to egyptian annals, the reversal of the west and east occurred: the sun rose in the west, then in the east, once more in
                Message 7 of 28 , May 7, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                   
                     'herodotus and mela say that according to egyptian annals, the reversal of the west and east occurred: the sun rose in the west, then in the east, once more in the west, and again in the east.' 
                     'mountainous tides uncovered the bottom of the sea; a spark sprang between two celectial bodies; and 'at the turning of the morning', the tides fell in a cataclysmic avalanche.' 
                     'whether there was a complete reversal of the cardinal points as a result of the cosmic catastrophe of the days of the exodus, or only a substantial shift, is a problem not solved here.'  [im glad he confessed this, but for 117 pages he has repeated spoke of complete reversals.  he has not brought venus in as the comet yet, nor a later close encounter of mars.] 
                     [why do we not see a period when burials and tombs were universally made east of the nile, if the sun set there for some time?] 
                     'the greeks, like other people, spoke of the reversal of the quarters of the earth, and not merely in allegories, but in literal terms.'  [strange that ive never noted it.] 
                     [author would have met less problems had he selected the time of noah's flood, instead of exodus.   i find little connection between the reported events of the exodus, and global disaster, where a comet reverses the poles.  the nations met along the way were not in panic and privation, but going about their normal business.  author resorts to legends and myths from all over the world, and concerning different disasters, but they fail to fill basic inadequacies of some of his theories.  he had genius, but i think some theories were wrong, such as venus as a comet, the exodus and reversal in 1500 bce.  he gave no place for the matter of the lost planet, and mars wasted away generating meteorites.   i still have a problem dating the planet destruction.  why would it be 65 million years ago, if most of the impacts and debris fields happened much more recently.  they deny finding meteorites in the strata of 65 million years ago, as far as not being found with fossils.  ive read vulcan was pluto, but we are not told the identity of the planet septimus.  could the ancients have witnessed the destruction of a planet?  in a short period the remaining planets gained much mass from the one destroyed.  this could be the time when wegener's continental drift occurred, as the diameter of the planet increased.  geologists must learn to say 'thousands' instead of millions.] 
                     despite these objections the book has merit.  it asks some good questions, and offers an outline of the physical changes noted, and lists the current theories.  he was far ahead of newton, darwin, sagan and whipple, imho. 
                     'the length of the year during the middle kingdom is not known from any contemporary document.'  [he fails to note a calendar was in use since 4,000 bce in egypt, giving 365.25 days.]  author says a year of 360 days existed only between the 15th and 8th c bce. 
                     during the middle kingdom: 'the earth then revolved on an orbit somewhat closer to the present orbit of venus.' 
                     'the reform of adding five days to a year of 360 days is ascribed to the hyksos king aseth, who also introduced the worship of the bull apis.'   [this is interesting, and points to the hyksos ruling in egypt before the old kingdom, since apis was worshipped by narma and menes.  it would seem to be long before 1500 bce, and in the age of taurus.] 
                   
                   
                  Kind regards,
                  Mike White
                  http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm

                   
                • Charles De Vaul
                  I can t help thinking of the babylonian creation myth. Specifically the battle between marduk and tiamat where marduk shot a thunderbolt into the broken body
                  Message 8 of 28 , May 7, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I can't help thinking of the babylonian creation myth. Specifically the
                    battle between marduk and tiamat where marduk shot a thunderbolt into
                    the broken body of tiamat and detroyed her creating the bracelet of
                    heaven and the earth.

                    I wonder if there's a connection.

                    <//>



                    On Sat, 7 May 2005 5:35 am, mike white wrote:
                    > 'herodotus and mela say that according to egyptian annals, the reversal
                    > of the west and east occurred: the sun rose in the west, then in the
                    > east, once more in the west, and again in the east.' 
                    >
                    > 'mountainous tides uncovered the bottom of the sea; a spark sprang
                    > between two celectial bodies; and 'at the turning of the morning', the
                    > tides fell in a cataclysmic avalanche.' 
                    >
                    > 'whether there was a complete reversal of the cardinal points as a
                    > result of the cosmic catastrophe of the days of the exodus, or only a
                    > substantial shift, is a problem not solved here.'  [im glad he
                    > confessed this, but for 117 pages he has repeated spoke of complete
                    > reversals.  he has not brought venus in as the comet yet, nor a later
                    > close encounter of mars.] 
                    >
                    > [why do we not see a period when burials and tombs were universally
                    > made east of the nile, if the sun set there for some time?] 
                    >
                    > 'the greeks, like other people, spoke of the reversal of the quarters
                    > of the earth, and not merely in allegories, but in literal terms.' 
                    > [strange that ive never noted it.] 
                    >
                    > [author would have met less problems had he selected the time of noah's
                    > flood, instead of exodus.   i find little connection between the
                    > reported events of the exodus, and global disaster, where a comet
                    > reverses the poles.  the nations met along the way were not in panic
                    > and privation, but going about their normal business.  author resorts
                    > to legends and myths from all over the world, and concerning different
                    > disasters, but they fail to fill basic inadequacies of some of his
                    > theories.  he had genius, but i think some theories were wrong, such as
                    > venus as a comet, the exodus and reversal in 1500 bce.  he gave no
                    > place for the matter of the lost planet, and mars wasted away
                    > generating meteorites.   i still have a problem dating the planet
                    > destruction.  why would it be 65 million years ago, if most of the
                    > impacts and debris fields happened much more recently.  they deny
                    > finding meteorites in the strata of 65 million years ago, as far as not
                    > being found with fossils.  ive read vulcan was pluto, but we are not
                    > told the identity of the planet septimus.  could the ancients have
                    > witnessed the destruction of a planet?  in a short period the remaining
                    > planets gained much mass from the one destroyed.  this could be the
                    > time when wegener's continental drift occurred, as the diameter of the
                    > planet increased.  geologists must learn to say 'thousands' instead of
                    > millions.] 
                    >
                    > despite these objections the book has merit.  it asks some good
                    > questions, and offers an outline of the physical changes noted, and
                    > lists the current theories.  he was far ahead of newton, darwin, sagan
                    > and whipple, imho. 
                    >
                    > 'the length of the year during the middle kingdom is not known from any
                    > contemporary document.'  [he fails to note a calendar was in use since
                    > 4,000 bce in egypt, giving 365.25 days.]  author says a year of 360
                    > days existed only between the 15th and 8th c bce. 
                    >
                    > during the middle kingdom: 'the earth then revolved on an orbit
                    > somewhat closer to the present orbit of venus.' 
                    >
                    > 'the reform of adding five days to a year of 360 days is ascribed to
                    > the hyksos king aseth, who also introduced the worship of the bull
                    > apis.'   [this is interesting, and points to the hyksos ruling in egypt
                    > before the old kingdom, since apis was worshipped by narma and menes. 
                    > it would seem to be long before 1500 bce, and in the age of taurus.] 
                    >
                    > Kind regards,
                    >
                    > Mike White
                    > http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm [http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm]
                    >
                    > Hosted by http://all-ez.com/epigraphy.htm
                    > [http://all-ez.com/epigraphy.htm]
                    >
                    > Group Site : http://www.epigraphyusa.com [http://www.epigraphyusa.com]
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, although we hope
                    > you stay and help us improve.  First consider changing to daily digest,
                    > or no mail - web only, visit main and edit membership :
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions
                    > [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions]
                    > if you must leave send an email to:
                    > Precolumbian_Inscriptions-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > --------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions/
                    > [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions/]
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > Precolumbian_Inscriptions-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > [mailto:Precolumbian_Inscriptions-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe]
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                    > [http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/].
                    >

                    Charles De Vaul <//>
                    www.ruinsofatlantis.com
                  • mike white
                    just the content of ancient legends suggests that man has been on earth thru numerous cosmic disasters. it speaks of a long antiquity, far beyond 10,000
                    Message 9 of 28 , May 7, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                       
                         just the content of ancient legends suggests that man has been on earth thru numerous cosmic disasters.  it speaks of a long antiquity, far beyond 10,000 years. 
                         'manetho refers this phenomena [manna] to the time of pharaoh nephercheres.' 
                         city of damieh was called adam before. 
                         the valley of beth-horon should be examined for a fall of meteorites, and signs of the battle of joshua. 
                         'stimulate surmise as to the geographical origin of the indo-iranian or carian migrants to greece.' 
                         'an incomplete catalogue of the literature on atlantis in 1926 included 1,700 titles.' 
                         'crete, a maratime base of carian navigators, may disclose some information about atlantis as soon as the cretan scripts are satisfactorily deciphered.' 
                         author says critias erred, and instead of 9,000 years, only 900 were meant.  he fails to consider that plato spent 22 years as a student in egypt, and could have corrected childish errors.  the alexandrians had several centuries to ponder these words, yet accepted them as written. 
                         [sonchis of sais confirms that all of north africa was ruled by atlanteans.  this is proof enough for me to assume the tuareg were descendants of atlanteans.  the skull elongation is additional proof.  an error is propagated in saying that egypt was never ruled by atlanteans.  the murals depict red-raced rulers, with sloping skulls.  there can be no doubt of the identity of akhenaten and nefertiti.  the question remains is their dynasty misplaced by over 8,000 years, or did they reign during a later period of libyan dominance?]
                         'greece knows two great natural catastrophes: the floods of deucalion and of ogyges.'  the former was the worst, and some ancient authors tried to connect it with the phaethon disaster.  [homer says deucalion was the son of minos, so i accept my sources dating it to about 9750 bce.  im still unconvinced that there was global disaster near the exodus.  if the date assigned to the flooding of the black sea is valid, they may have been in the same era.] 
                         [btw, if we use the dating system of the old world before Christ, when considering the beverly mystery stone's inscription, we have the date 2231, become 1315 bce.] 
                         julius africanus: 'after ogygus, by reason of the vast destruction caused by the flood, the present land of attica remained without a king up to cecrops, a period of 189 years.'  [cecrops was contemporary with minos, so this flood may have been before deucalion.] 
                         'quetzal-cohuatl is the well-known name of the planet venus.'  [since when?] 
                         ogyges founded egyptian thebes. 
                         'i assume also that in the third millennium only four planets could have been seen, and that in astronomical charts of this early period the planet venus cannot be found.'  [very unlikely] 
                         'tistrya of the zend-avesta, the star that attacks the planets.' 
                         'in greece the goddess who suddenly appeared in the sky was pallas athene.  she sprang from the head of zeus-jupiter.'  [i had not really thought of this significance, but its true, and important.  maybe the red spot is where she came out?  this would imply that the exact number of stations was not assigned by the creator.  could there be an infinite number of planets?  i think not, unlike is repulsed, and like is captured.  what of venus is unlike jupiter?  maybe i should write an appendix, or afterward, to velikovsky's work, where the alternatives can be put forth?  there are authors among the members who know this market better than i.  i will search among references for the earliest mention of venus or athena.  we must include the deities of aphrodite and possibly artemis.  any revision of his work now that he is gone, would be met with trouble.  if the planet of venus was ejected from jupiter, and assumed a divine orbit and neutral center, i must consider it well, particularly if any evidence exists that it happened in 1500 bce.   maybe his proofs get stronger further into the book.  i consider this last more important a clue, than the magnetic dip of vases.  ive seen the red spot in telescope, and its impressive.  it could be that recent in formation.]  
                         
                       
                      Kind regards,
                      Mike White
                      http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm

                       
                    • mike white
                      greek: the sea rises up like a wall, and the sun stopping in its course. p169 lake triton : this lake disappeared in a catastrophe in africa when it broke
                      Message 10 of 28 , May 8, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                         
                           greek: the sea rises up like a wall, and the sun stopping in its course.  p169
                          lake triton : 'this lake disappeared in a catastrophe in africa when it broke into the ocean, leaving the desert of sahara.'  birth of athena was same time, its thought. 
                           diodorus : 'disappeared from sight in the course of an earthquake, when those parts of it which lay toward the ocean were torn asunder.' 
                           [venus does go thru phases like the moon, and can be said to have horns at crescent phase.]
                           'the night between the thirteenth and the fourteenth days of the first month after the vernal equinox was the night of the great earthshock.' 
                           'athena killed her father, typhon-pallas, the celestial monster'
                           'under the weight of many arguments, i came to the conclusion - about which i no longer have any doubt - that it was the planet venus, at the time still a comet, that caused the catastrophe of the days of exodus.' 
                           'at an earlier time, jupiter had already caused havoc in the planetary family, the earth included'. 
                           'early astronomers shared ptolemy's opinion that 'venus has the same powers' and also the nature of jupiter.'  'when she becomes sole ruler of the event, in general brings about results similar to those of jupiter.' 
                           isis 'originally belonged to jupiter; osiris being saturn.' 
                        [jupiter shed his feminine side?] 
                           'noga is venus.' 
                         
                         
                        Kind regards,
                        Mike White
                        http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm

                         
                      • mike white
                        venus: it rained napthta on the earth . the cult of apis originated in egypt in the days of the hyksos, after the end of the middle kingdom. [emery says
                        Message 11 of 28 , May 9, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                           
                              venus: 'it rained napthta on the earth'.  
                             'the cult of apis originated in egypt in the days of the hyksos, after the end of the middle kingdom.'  [emery says apis began in old kingdom.  i think it relates more to the sign of taurus than venus.]   
                             [i looked up king aseth of hyksos.  i dont find that name yet.  foreign dynasty, worshipped set, 1655 - 1540 bce ruled northern egypt.  hyksos introduced horses to egypt.  they and the carians were from northern anatolia.  if not scythian themselves, they could have traded with them for horses.  'ruler of foreign lands' was title, and found all thru the eastern med.  they had a hook nose.  their dynasty ended due to a nasty letter that the last hyksos king sent to the king of south egypt, complaining of noise from the hippos.  the last hyksos king was also called aseth [khamudy], after defeat he fled egypt ca 1547 bce.  they are uncertain on dating these dynasties, or their origin.  my guess at this point is they are before the old kingdom, but the sculptured profile did look similar to the mummy profile of ramses the great, semitic.  the chaldeans were called hittites for an era, and possibly hyksos as well, or the hyksos could have ruled from damascas?   almost nothing is known of history from 10,000 bce down to 3,000 bce.  there was continuity, man didnt walk out of africa suddenly in 5,000 bce!   the nile supported man for countless ages.  they try to squeeze 50 kings into the last 45 years of hyksos, much pushing back of dates is needed.  some quote manetho as saying they were from phoenicia.]   
                           
                           
                           
                           
                           
                               [are we certain that the sea peoples were not the hyksos returning?  both seemed to be a maritime, but shepherds as well.   rather than assign an existing people, early scholars coined a name for an unknown.   every few centuries the name of the tribes from anatolia seemed to change.  the hyksos fade into hurrian, and others.  i think its possible that northwestern anatolia, and all along the eastern med coast, changed hands several times, over trade, territory, and women.  there were, no doubt, empires rise and fall that we know nothing about.  i refer to a great chaldean expansion, and an elamite empire, several great magyar and scythian empires.  nothing is known of the gobi, and little of the frisian empire.  half the people think atlantis and lemuria are fables.  history has became a children's story.  astrology has became optics and mathematics.  there is little proof, but the signs suggest the truth, of a long and eventful history on irtha.]
                           
                           
                          Kind regards,
                          Mike White
                          http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm
                           

                           
                        • mike white
                          [all planets inside of earth s orbit goes thru phases, like the moon, and crescents like horns.] worship of the bull was changed to cow devotion, after the
                          Message 12 of 28 , May 9, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                             
                               [all planets inside of earth's orbit goes thru phases, like the moon, and crescents like horns.]
                               worship of the bull was changed to cow devotion, after the milky honey of manna fell.  [so the land of milk and honey was recently devastated by comet?  it may be good to know when cow devotion began in india.]  in both places the birth of venus was fragrant.  
                               [its seldom mentioned by travelers, but even today many cows graze freely and unmolested at the temples of angkor wat.  its a tad unusual, for normally water buffalo are encountered other places.]
                               [head of jupiter may mean his north pole?  i can visualize that the oceans may bulge at the equator, to bring the mass closer to the lines of flux that arc around the globe from the poles.]
                               'after the close of the middle kingdom, the egyptian standard bore the emblem of a fly.' 
                               [before the manna, came flies and vermin.] 
                               [the celestial birth of a god or goddess is at odds with most other reports, that have gods begin as men and heroes, born of woman by a divine father.] 'metis, pregnant with pallas'. 
                               'the flies in the tail of venus were not merely the earthly brood.'  [no for they lived in naptha.] 
                               venus and jupiter 'may be populated by vermin.'   [it would be safer to think with all of the magnetic captures going on between spheres, that vermin from one earth location, was placed in another.  winds and water may have been out of control.]
                               snohomish tribe of nw : 'a long time ago, when all the animals were still human beings, the sky was very low.' 
                            with the shout of 'yahu' they all lifted the sky. 
                               the pawnee tribe practiced human sacrifice just like the aztecs. 
                               [blavatsky said that venus was sister planet of the earth.  it goes thru changes before they happen on earth.] 
                               [strange that the romans did not try to create a great library in italy, and to copy, rather than burn alexandria's manuscripts.  they were wise enough to preserve much of greek culture.]
                               see how much the red spot looks like an eye, with tremendous power. 
                             
                             
                             
                            Kind regards,
                            Mike White
                            http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm
                             
                             
                          • mike white
                            velikovsky admitted ishtar or asteroth is venus. one of the oldest parts of babylon may be the eastern ishtar gate. so old that it depicts extinct animals.
                            Message 13 of 28 , May 9, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                               
                                 velikovsky admitted ishtar or asteroth is venus.  one of the oldest parts of babylon may be the eastern ishtar gate.  so old that it depicts extinct animals.  i believe it to be older than 1500 bce.  its a shame so many of my books are in storage, or we would have reliable info on venus' first appearance speedily.  the reference work 'star names - their lore and meaning' by frankel i think, is invaluable when correlation of all lore and info on the heavens since records were first kept on the stars.  finding the significance of gods, and the multitude of names that many were known by around the globe is fascinating.  they could not have seen what they charted and wrote, without a telescope - but they did, until some lenses or reflectors are found. 
                                 'the choice of paris' concerns venus in a beauty contest.  if this is paris of troy, imho its ca 5500 bce, long before the comet venus scenario.  in fact athena plays an active role in the trojan war.  this comes from psychic cayce and homer.  im not sure pallas athena is connected with venus.  wasnt aphrodite contemporary and unique from athena?  the former famed for love and beauty, and athena for wise counsel and war.  im inclined to look for athena among the moons of jupiter.  i see no reason to ignore the theory that a sun ejects planets, and planets eject moons.  jupiter is a special planet, based on size, and power, and some think its a sun that didnt ignite.   venus is about 85% the size of earth.  it could have ejected from the red spot with room to spare, but it seems unlikely that it could have reached escape velocity from jupiter.
                               
                               
                              Kind regards,
                              Mike White
                              http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm
                               

                               
                            • mike white
                              [some may consider the most ancient fertility figurines to be associated to venus. these go back to paleo man. i read a long article about venus the planet
                              Message 14 of 28 , May 10, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                 
                                   [some may consider the most ancient fertility figurines to be associated to venus.  these go back to paleo man.  i read a long article about venus the planet and deity, but found little to suggest a connection to the comet theory, and late arrival, or any disaster. ] 
                                   originally there were 8 years between olympiads. 
                                   'in the beginning of the first millennium, venus was still a comet.' 
                                   venus : 'it has the most nearly circular orbit among the planets.' 
                                   [the 50 year jubilee, may not be related to a dreaded comet approach, but may refer to the period of sirius b.]
                                 
                                p207 chap 1, mars ... amos:
                                   750bce egypt was ruled by libyan and ethiopian dynasties. 
                                   'khima as saturn and khesil as mars'. 
                                   flood in reign of 'osorkon two of the libyan dynasty.' 
                                   amos said no refuge even on 'mt carmel, rich in caves.'   [mt carmel was the site of several great schools, and would be wonderful to explore, if the politics were safer.]
                                    [it should be noted that floods can ravage most of the earth, with our given volume of water.  'the sea will be heaped up and thrown upon inhabited land.'  'like a wall'  these discuss huge waves, that can reach high places, as they roll over continents.  i dont think that it was ever possible for standing still water, to cover every mountain.] 
                                   [there begins much repeated material from 'the earth in upheaval'.] 
                                   [there is no doubt that the prophets, amos to joel, spoke of cosmic events.  shortly later king ahaz noted the shadow fell back on his sundial.  it does seem to indicate a poleshift, possibly a minor shift.] 
                                   [all of the calendars were not began anew in 747 bce.  even today, jews, thais, and others, use a reckoning that began ca 3100 bce, or a little before.]      
                                   [why were the latin writers so silent about such a tremendous calamity happening on their watch?] 
                                   in 'ages in chaos', author will try to prove that tiryns was the ruined palace of the argive tyrants of 8th c bce.  this is a prehistoric megalithic building, that legend has poseidon laid the foundation.  i wish he would not attempt that.  i think homer implied it was old and in ruin at the time of the trojan war.] 
                                   seneca reported in a play a time when night fell early. 
                                   'the luminaries crossed their former paths obliquely; the pols were shifted; the year lengthened - the orbit of the earth became wider.' 
                                   'the great bear - or one of its stars - never set below the horizon, and thus the polar star was among its stars during the age that came to its end in the time of the argive tyrants.'   [this is the end of the age of aries.  i wondered why the world was spared a disaster between aries and pisces - now i see, maybe they were not spared.  pisces age was first mentioned by daniel ca 500 bce, and he gave the endtime in 2.5 times, or 2500 years.]
                                   'and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll.' 
                                   'until the fall of meteorites in 1803, science was sure that stones falling from the sky occurred only in legends.'
                                 
                                 
                                Kind regards,
                                Mike White
                                http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm
                                 
                                 
                              • Charles De Vaul
                                Zacheria stinchin ? Said the same thing in the 12th planet when describing marduk s passing but I think it was saturn. The larger planet I think bulged
                                Message 15 of 28 , May 10, 2005
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Zacheria "stinchin"<sp>? Said the same thing in the 12th planet when
                                  describing marduk's passing but I think it was saturn. The larger
                                  planet I think bulged and created 4 moons which marduk used as rotating
                                  weapons with which he hit tiamat with. I only have vague memories of
                                  that scenerio and I'm far from my books right now too but it might be
                                  worth reading.

                                  I do know that they've found gas giants in other solar systems many many
                                  times larger than jupiter though. I would think that it would take a
                                  much larger planet to create a sun.

                                  Just my thoughts.

                                  Chuck



                                  On Mon, 9 May 2005 12:53 pm, mike white wrote:
                                  > velikovsky admitted ishtar or asteroth is venus.  one of the oldest
                                  > parts of babylon may be the eastern ishtar gate.  so old that it
                                  > depicts extinct animals.  i believe it to be older than 1500 bce.  its
                                  > a shame so many of my books are in storage, or we would have reliable
                                  > info on venus' first appearance speedily.  the reference work 'star
                                  > names - their lore and meaning' by frankel i think, is invaluable when
                                  > correlation of all lore and info on the heavens since records were
                                  > first kept on the stars.  finding the significance of gods, and the
                                  > multitude of names that many were known by around the globe is
                                  > fascinating.  they could not have seen what they charted and wrote,
                                  > without a telescope - but they did, until some lenses or reflectors are
                                  > found. 
                                  >
                                  > 'the choice of paris' concerns venus in a beauty contest.  if this is
                                  > paris of troy, imho its ca 5500 bce, long before the comet venus
                                  > scenario.  in fact athena plays an active role in the trojan war.  this
                                  > comes from psychic cayce and homer.  im not sure pallas athena is
                                  > connected with venus.  wasnt aphrodite contemporary and unique from
                                  > athena?  the former famed for love and beauty, and athena for wise
                                  > counsel and war.  im inclined to look for athena among the moons of
                                  > jupiter.  i see no reason to ignore the theory that a sun ejects
                                  > planets, and planets eject moons.  jupiter is a special planet, based
                                  > on size, and power, and some think its a sun that didnt ignite.   venus
                                  > is about 85% the size of earth.  it could have ejected from the red
                                  > spot with room to spare, but it seems unlikely that it could have
                                  > reached escape velocity from jupiter.
                                  >
                                  > Kind regards,
                                  >
                                  > Mike White
                                  > http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm [http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm]
                                  >
                                  > Hosted by http://all-ez.com/epigraphy.htm
                                  > [http://all-ez.com/epigraphy.htm]
                                  >
                                  > Group Site : http://www.epigraphyusa.com [http://www.epigraphyusa.com]
                                  > To unsubscribe from this group, although we hope
                                  > you stay and help us improve.  First consider changing to daily digest,
                                  > or no mail - web only, visit main and edit membership :
                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions
                                  > [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions]
                                  > if you must leave send an email to:
                                  > Precolumbian_Inscriptions-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  >
                                  > --------------------
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions/
                                  > [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Precolumbian_Inscriptions/]
                                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  > Precolumbian_Inscriptions-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  > [mailto:Precolumbian_Inscriptions-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe]
                                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                                  > [http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/].
                                  >

                                  Charles De Vaul <//>
                                  www.ruinsofatlantis.com
                                • mike white
                                  [we arrive to the period of 701 bce, when sennacherib marched on palestine. bear in mind all of the southern jews were aware that sargon two had relocated the
                                  Message 16 of 28 , May 10, 2005
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                     
                                       [we arrive to the period of 701 bce, when sennacherib marched on palestine.  bear in mind all of the southern jews were aware that sargon two had relocated the ten northern tribes just 21 years before.  no doubt many saw further conquest coming in the reign of hezekiah, and may have fled palestine.  this may be the time of the migrations of jews to the uk.  cayce spoke of this.  after hearing the words of the prophets then, i would have moved far away.  sumerset may have been inviting.] 
                                     
                                       [tiryns is given 1200 bce, but a strange revival of decoration in ca 650 bce, causes some to lower the date.  i spoke wrong before, homer told of men of tiryns sending ships against troy, even before 1200 bce, easily imho.  many doric motifs.  correct me if im wrong, but doric is the same as goth and were scythian tribes, but are referred to as magyar in the earliest times.  they called them pelasgians, for some reason.  there is some reason to think they may have controlled crete and greece during much of the period from 10,000 bce to maybe 750 bce.  then they migrated north into thrace, the cyclades, then into anatolia, becoming the phrygians, imho.]    
                                     
                                     
                                       its unfortunate that they are now so certain that homer wrote in the 8th c bce.  apparently, we have an 8th ce bce blind bard telling exact details of battles, palaces, and combatants, that happened 500 years before.  
                                       they dont find any transition strata for these ages, yet they use the same designs, etc.  what if the lack of continuity called forth a homer in the greek spirit?  no doubt homer filled this need, and codified some history, and united greek culture.  it could be the experts dating of sites and buildings is in error.  that remains may exist for each of the interim centuries, but on a lesser scale.  one would expect the greek economy would have boomed after the defeat of troy, and bringing home the gold and plunder.  homer called mycene and tiryns 'rich in gold'.  the dating of the blank strata has to be in error, or they are way off in the dating of the trojan war.  cayce leads me to believe ca 5500 bce, which falls in the middle of the long blank period of history.  did schliemann become wealthier after his expenditures on his digs?  much more gold may have been found.   maybe some nation sacked greece in ca 1200 bce, and never got mention in history?  destroyed by fire, then they left.  classic writers tell of agamemnon's son orestes, in 750 bce his bones were found and carried to sparta, they were of giant size.  nobody was surprised, so the date of the trojan war had to have been much earlier. 
                                      
                                      
                                    Kind regards,
                                    Mike White
                                    http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm
                                     
                                     
                                      
                                  • mike white
                                    hey ... only 7 people voted in the poll of whether gradual or sudden explains earthly events. plz try to take a moment by following link in footer to main,
                                    Message 17 of 28 , May 11, 2005
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                       
                                         hey ... only 7 people voted in the poll of whether gradual or sudden explains earthly events.  plz try to take a moment by following link in footer to main, then click left column 'polls'.  it would be nice to have a better representation of what the members think.  identity is protected. 
                                         babylon was destroyed in 689 bce.  sennecherib fought campaigns after babylon was destroyed, and after defeat returned to nineveh, where his prism annals were found. 
                                      egyptians recorded the event with a 'statue of the god with a mouse in the palm of his hand.'  
                                         cure for bubonic plague given as a 'lump of figs' on the boils.  
                                         bible : 'behold, i will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of ahaz, ten degrees backward.  so the sun returned ten degrees'.  [i had misquoted 30, sorry.]  
                                      [this tends to agree with the the literature of the pole changing from the big bear to little bear.  earlier commentary suggested there is ice and glacial evidence showing several small degree recent poleshifts, perhaps as many as 4-5 within the last 10,000 years.]  
                                         it seems very plausible that we may have had a 10 degree poleshift in the reign of ahaz.  enough shift for a significant elongation to the polar icecaps.  possibly several small degree poleshifts of short duration could produce an ice-age.    
                                         herodotus : 'since egypt became a kingdom, the sun had repeatedly changed its direction.' 
                                         china 687 bce : 'stars fell like rain'. 
                                         'according to talmudic sources, an equal perturbation, but in the oppsite direction, occurred on the day ahaz was carried to his grave'.  [second poleshift returned what the first took.]
                                         author has cosmic disasters in the times of moses, joshua, uzziah, ahaz, and hezekiah. 
                                         varro sounds like an interesting roman author. 
                                         history needs more definite dates to piece events together.  author refers to the founding of carthage, which he gives in the 9th c bce, to find the time of homer and the war.  yet the founding of that city by dido was tied to soon after the fall of troy. 
                                         homer : 'most mighty ares .. chieftain of valor, revolving thy fiery circle in ether among the seven wandering stars [planets].' 
                                         'mars and huitzilopochtli were one and the same planet-god.' 
                                         rivalry between mars and venus moves author to think the aztecs entered mexico earlier than thought. 
                                         [im surprised the author hasnt connected the current age of kali yuga to venus.  yuga means conjunction or collision.]
                                         'planet mars saved the terrestrial globe from a major catastrophe by colliding with venus.'  in the 8th c bce
                                          
                                       
                                      Kind regards,
                                      Mike White
                                      http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm
                                       
                                       
                                    • luis_browne
                                      ... sudden explains earthly events. I voted but I was really uncertain if you meant voting sudden implicitly means agreeing with Velokovki s theories, which
                                      Message 18 of 28 , May 12, 2005
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com, "mike white"
                                        <infoplz@c...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > hey ... only 7 people voted in the poll of whether gradual or
                                        sudden explains earthly events.

                                        I voted but I was really uncertain if you meant voting "sudden"
                                        implicitly means agreeing with Velokovki's theories, which I do not.
                                        While I think Velokovski had the right general concept, I think his
                                        proposed dates, research and explanations are outdated and spurious.
                                      • mike white
                                        my choice of book titles and authors may be different from other members. in this busy rat-race, there is room for several reviews, in support other theories.
                                        Message 19 of 28 , May 14, 2005
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                           
                                             my choice of book titles and authors may be different from other members.  in this busy rat-race, there is room for several reviews, in support other theories.  condensing material helps make it available to people too busy to read the whole book.  i may change authors after this title, and save 'peoples of the sea' for another time.  i may read frank hibben, just for the poetry.  hehe
                                             david, ive got a member somewhere who calls himself something like texas ruin trekker.  it would be great for you two to have a discussion. 
                                             lets hope our membership breaks thru the 200 ceiling this summer.  im sorry that i picked my words sloppily with claus and luis.  several experts, from as many sciences, and approaches, are seeking the same answers we are.  its not fair to let one approach consider itself infallible, and more valid evidence, than other approaches.  i suspect none are perfect, but some theories better explain what we see.  i like to hear the dna conclusions, and the tree ring dates.  personally, i trust patina more than the other methods, for assigning a relative date, in reference to other later additions of cuts into the same stone.  it shows clearly by darker thicker patina for the earlier work.  dating one section of patina gives a good notion how far removed the second date will be.   going by dna sampling alone, we are led to conclude there were no male indigenous people in columbia before 1492 ce.  the presence of tracable dna is interesting, but its lack of presence, dont necessarily mean that it was always the same.  dna can prove, but not disprove certain other conclusions.] 
                                              [big picture : our planet suffers frequent and violent sudden disasters.  the lands and seas change places, forcing people to migrate.  climate change has done the same.   are the americas the new world, unpopulated before ca 15,000 bce?  the records seem to indicate that man populated lands when they rose from the sea, and were not covered by ice.  the colorado plateau has probably the oldest evidence for man in america, and maybe the world, imho.  the biggest challenger for greatest antiquity may be in peru.  it would be a great mistake to undervalue the painted stones of ica.  as strange as they are, i feel they are authentic relics.  there may be a few frauds among them.  those that portray high medicine, sciences, and man with 'dinosaurs' - should be investigated for age, and compared to others that are still strewn across the desert.  there last are more likely authentic.  imagine man millions of years ago, drawing his world and sciences on stones, then depositing these into a hill in the desert, and covering them with sand, clay, or soil.  the cover and its pollin content will let us know the climate when the hill archive was created.  it was likely tropical then, before the andes uplifted, and the pacific continent sank, leaving islands and fringes of the continents.   peru and mexico are these fringes, say the mystics. 
                                             it looks as if i will go back to china again before my trip to the andes.  it takes more than history to make the world go round.  my son is hyped up for some globe trotting, and it will be great to show him the ropes.  we will try to get 6 weeks in the andes, and coasts of peru, hopefully next year.  member judith has enjoyed a few trips there.  plus we have a member living in lima, that can help with planning a tour, or joining a group. 
                                           
                                           
                                          Kind regards,
                                          Mike White
                                          http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm
                                           
                                           
                                        • mike white
                                          recurrent displacement of the terrestrial globe, torsion of the lithosphere, and migration of the inner parts of the globe must have caused a succession of
                                          Message 20 of 28 , May 15, 2005
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                             
                                               'recurrent displacement of the terrestrial globe, torsion of the lithosphere, and migration of the inner parts of the globe must have caused a succession of earthquakes over a prolonged period.' 
                                               'when heaven reeled' 
                                               'the earth shook; a collapsing catastrophe was all over the country; nergal strangles the country.'  [mars]
                                               'thus nergal is referred to in connection with the collapse of the temple in nippur that was destroyed in an earthquake.'  
                                               'the babylonians also found that walls of burnt bricks were of greater elasticity than walls of stone'.  
                                               author brings attention to frequent earthquakes in palestine in the 8 c bce, where they are seldom now.  
                                                'geological and faunal similarities of south america and west africa suggested their separation in recent geological times'  [my theory for this drift connects it to a time when space debris falling adds significantly to the earth's mass and by fluid lava brought the whole closer to a sphere, assuming the heat of friction increases with the mass.  it seems logical to place the rapid expansion of earth's diameter to the planet destruction event.  no doubt the lost mass is on earth, mars, and jupiter.  it seems like many comets might be drawn to the sun and be over.  its a bit odd that they are sling-shotted back to the outer solar system.  the atmosphere may deflect some away that strike it at a low angle, but mostly our gravity is acting in the attract mode.  by the grace of God it breaks down large meteorites, to small particles reaching the ground.  seldom is any creature injured by the thousands of tons of space debris that fall to earth each year.  it could be these times when the earth's diameter undergoes rapid expansion, occur soon after huge masses of meteors strike on one side.  i expect that imbalances cause greater friction, producing more heat, with lava rising closer to the surface planet-wide.  volcanoes erupting with vigor.  the upthrust of the lava could push continents apart, displacing the mass with lava.  this would be possibly the time of fire and conflagration.  nobody else has stated this theory, to my knowledge.  it would likely raise global temperatures to extremes.  the plan seems to be that the earth grows in diameter over time.  with a given amount of water, the land increase must come from space.  good news is a bigger garden for man.  enough for everybody, so lets hope leaders learn to avoid provoking war.]
                                               [forgive my wayward asides plz.  now the world could have a more perfect system, benefiting all.  instead of only taking daily food needs to famine areas, that a sustainable lifestyle as close to the current life as possible, be developed and shown to the people, or relocate them.]
                                               author says 80% of earthquake activity is in western americas and east asia.  im amazed he didnt say the tropical pacific of indonesia.  
                                               [most of the south pacific is reported to be covered with lava, and apparently red clay over that.  i wondered how that can be?  then i realized the earth could sustain a direct hit, and a train of gravel.  part of this may be reduced to red clay thru the entry of atmosphere.  the clay may remain airborne several months, before falling.  if the impact ruptured to the magma, lava could flow and harden before the clay layer settled.  what engine rotates the pacific plate counter-clockwise?   the normal currents of the oceans make perfect sense in their motion.  its predictable with our thermodynamics and convections - but what could cause el nino every seven years?  the humboldt current reverses direction.  does the entire circuit of the southern hemisphere current go clockwise then?   from my reading it would take massive temperature or salinity changes to alter its course.  i suspect we have a hot spot from near surface lava along the circuit of the southern current of the pacific.  temp and salinity should be measured along its circuit during el nino.  this is not a good thing, something is out of balance, imho.   it could be important to research, what if it was an undersea super-volcano?  if it were not for the cooling of the sea, we might be in deep doodoo.  a poleshift could raise this area, then what?  
                                               [btw indonesians should be making friends with other countries, and relocating.  the last thing they need is to be thought muslim extremists.  the asian continental shelf seems to include out to japan.  they will get the worse of it.  i have a dread of being in the andes or coasts of peru.  one never knows when these areas will go up and down, they have signs of doing both.  even those living in la paz may not be free from suddenly being flooded by the sea.]
                                             
                                             
                                            Kind regards,
                                            Mike White
                                            http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm
                                                  
                                             
                                          • mike white
                                            mountain building is a process the causes of which have not been established. pliny speaks of the babylonians saying that a force from three planets, those
                                            Message 21 of 28 , May 16, 2005
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                               
                                                 'mountain building is a process the causes of which have not been established.' 
                                                 pliny speaks of the babylonians saying that a force from three planets, those who loose thunderbolts, are responsible for earthquake events. 
                                                 two moons of mars were discovered in 1877, but spoke of earlier fairly accurately by swift, virgil and homer.  asaph hall : 'without fully realizing what he did, he gave the satellites the same names by which they were known to the ancients.'   terror and rout
                                                 'the horses with hoofs of flint'   
                                                 bura and helice greece inundated in 373 bce, with comet over them. 
                                                 old gaonic tradition : 'there are seven archangels, each of whom is associated with a planet.' 
                                                 he has gabriel as mars, venus as michael. 
                                                 'queen of witches, tlagoltiotl, is depicted as riding on a broom and as wearing the witch's peaked hat.' 
                                                 its suggested that we are born with certain ideas innate, like a world deluge.  i would offer fear of falling. 
                                                 [the book of jasher is contained in the apocrypha, variously reputed to be a work from the 12th or 16th c ce, but discussing events of thousands of years ago.]
                                                 'shortsighted belief that no forces could have shaped the world in the past that are not at work also in the present time, a belief that is the very foundation of modern geology and of the theory of evolution.' 
                                                 'what induced the mayas to call by the same name of scorpion, the constellation known to us and to the ancients by the same name?' 
                                                 dragons are a global motif, 'however, bones of this presumably extinct reptile have not been found.'   author suggests it was the comet typhon that suggested it.
                                                 [im considering that maybe it takes major earth changing disasters to act to preserve bones and fossils.  others are a rare exception.  species could come and go, and have no fossils found.] 
                                                 [its a bit disturbing that author does not believe in miracles.  he expects moses and joshua were benefitted by the comet's collision.  if so, they were great scholars and scientists, to get their timing so exact, and knowing what to expect.  with so little faith, im surprised at his degree of intuition and insight in some matters.] 
                                                 'least of all do we place faith in books that demand belief, religious books, though we swear on these.' 
                                                 'because one and the same event is embodied in traditions that are very different indeed, its authenticity becomes highly probable.' 
                                                 [dr legner is interested in images of my collection.  on my epigraphy page, is a black jade carving from the tang dynasty, of what appears an american bison.  600-900ce] 
                                                 [i still am not convinced that moses lived only 800 years before hezekiah.  nor a comet collision, great conflagration, and two poleshifts in that era.  i certainly dont explain the miracles with their phenomena.  something cosmic may have caused a wandering of the poles.  there are dark ages to us from 1200 to 750 bce, and most before 1500 bce remains blank as well.] 
                                                 [what restrains us from accepting that there could have been civilized man, 10,000, 26,000, 50,000, or 152,000 bce?]  
                                                 [not only do i accept there had been long-lived giants, i think we were they in an earlier appearance.]   
                                                
                                               
                                              Kind regards,
                                              Mike White
                                              http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm
                                               
                                               
                                            • mike white
                                              egyptian sky charts, note about author s double zodiac of senmut, who was vizier of hatshepsut. the egyptians had more knowledge of precession and meridians
                                              Message 22 of 28 , May 17, 2005
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                 
                                                   egyptian sky charts, note about author's double zodiac of senmut, who was vizier of hatshepsut.  the egyptians had more knowledge of precession and meridians than many realize. 
                                                 
                                                 

                                                An Annotated Bibliography Of

                                                Studies of Occidental Constellations and

                                                Star Names to the Classical Period

                                                 
                                                   [interesting enough, the scholars contend that the charts of the chinese are from sightings at a different latitude, maybe babylon.  those found at babylon presented a similar error.  those in india show a consistent error from the expected.  something has changed that moderns are not computing, either the date is wrong, or the polar axis has shifted, not just precession.] 
                                                     
                                                 
                                                   william should consult this expert.  im not finding any sundials similar to the ohio rock.  its true, the experts say primitive furnaces leave few traces.  the recreations at chicago were not the wind-fed hill top variety, which may require draft collection area, and chimney, yet it would be hard to prove once it fell in ruin, and was dismantled for stone.
                                                 
                                                 
                                                 
                                                mike
                                                 
                                                  
                                                  
                                              • mike white
                                                kepler reduced that babylon had moved 4.5 degrees since ancient times charted. in historical times at babylon : the earth since then has turned toward the
                                                Message 23 of 28 , May 19, 2005
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                   
                                                     kepler reduced that babylon had moved 4.5 degrees since ancient times charted. 
                                                     in historical times at babylon : 'the earth since then has turned toward the south, and the direction of the polar axis, or its geographical location, or both, have undergone displacement.' 
                                                   
                                                     [there are places where i would differ, but this writer offers up some good food for thought.  you might recall, in past reviews i may have mentioned the andean holy places were 
                                                  'huaca', the aztec and babylonian has 'huacan' to mean temple.]  
                                                   
                                                     "As pointed out earlier, I believe there is the profound similarity between Mashkan-Shapir of Mesopotamia and Mishocan-Chapultepec of the Valley of Mexico, and the anglicized name of Michigan-Superior. " 
                                                     [maybe grasping a little here?  what say u petusek?] 
                                                   
                                                    'diogenes laertius repeated the teachings of leucippus : 'the earth was bent or inclined towards the south because the northern regions grew rigid and inflexible by the snowy and cold weather which ensued thereon.' 
                                                     'the first ray of the equinoctial sun shown through the eastern gate and into the very heart of the temple.'  [now the gate is never opened.  this seems an obvious attempt by the muslim rulers or rabbis to remove all traces of sun worship out of the canon.  yea, but what about that suggested by 'sun' and 'son', more significant to we christians?  im not suggesting that we worship the Sun, but we should learn of its high order in the scheme of things, like now, the sages believed one thing, and the masses a mere childish version.] 
                                                    
                                                   
                                                  Kind regards,
                                                  Mike White
                                                  http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm
                                                   
                                                   
                                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.