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Fw: [Ancient-Mysteries] Riddle of a lost Chinese city on the Atlantic coast

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  • mike white
    ... From: mythisis@aol.com To: undisclosed-recipients: Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 12:44 PM Subject: [Ancient-Mysteries] Riddle of a lost Chinese city on
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 28, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 12:44 PM
      Subject: [Ancient-Mysteries] Riddle of a lost Chinese city on the Atlantic coast

      Riddle of a lost Chinese city on the Atlantic coast
      Feb 24, 2005
      On May 16, a Canadian architect will tell the United Nations of a lost Chinese city on the Atlantic coast of North America, lending weight to the theory that the Chinese arrived in the New World some 70 years before Christopher Columbus.

      Gavin Menzies
      A Canadian architect has discovered what is believed to be the lost naval base of China‘s foremost explorer on the Atlantic coast of North America, lending weight to the theory the Chinese arrived in the New World some 70 years before Christopher Columbus.

      The revelation was made to a Malaysian newspaper by Gavin Menzies, a former British Navy submarine commander and author of the controversial best-selling book, 1421: The Year China Discovered the World.

      Menzies‘s theory that the Chinese Muslim explorer, Admiral Zheng He or Cheng Ho discovered the New World first made international headlines in March 2002 and has sparked controversy and criticism both in the West and China.

      Earlier this month, Menzies revealed that a site was found on the Atlantic coast of North America which may have been Zheng‘s naval base.

      The discoverer of the site, whom Menzies described as a “distinguished Canadian architect“, will inform the Canadian Government and then UNESCO, and ask the latter to make it a World Heritage site, The Star said.

      Public disclosure will then be made on May 16 at the Library of Congress.

      “It‘s huge,“ Menzies said.

      “It has massive walls, and has remained undiscovered for 600 years. And it‘s two-thirds the size of the Forbidden City…Walls, roads, the remains of foundations, graves, God-knows-what.

      “It would cost a vast amount of money to excavate this site. It‘s in a very difficult position to reach. We definitely do need a lot of money to carry on the research,“ according to the daily.

      “And so far, I‘ve received over C$1.23 mil from sales of my book and I‘ve ploughed all that back into research. But the scale of research required now is more than my finances can bear. So I‘m very, very interested in a foundation to raise money and carry on the research, particularly this site of Zheng He‘s.“

      Does the discovery of the naval site in North America confirm Menzies‘ theory once and for all?

      “Yes, but I don‘t need it,“ Menzies said.

      Columbus' ship (forefront) compared to Zheng He's massive vessel (background)
      “This discovery absolutely confirms it but, in my view, my arguments have completely confirmed it already. I could have predicted exactly where this base is, by the way.”

      Menzies theory and his book were featured in a recent Discovery Channel documentary that looked at the mystery of Zheng and his magnificent fleet of giant Ming treasure junks, which he commanded at the request of Emperor Zhu Di in the 15th century.

      Collating historical accounts, archaeological finds and consultations with modern-day historians, archaeologists and scientists, the program studied and put to the test Menzies‘s theory.

      Part of that involved the retracing of the routes that Menzies believes the Chinese took from Africa to Europe, to the Caribbean and along the eastern coast of North America.

      The documentary provided re-enactments, location shooting, and computer-generated models of Zheng‘s fleet in order to bring to life the superpower that was 15th-century China.

      It also presented the views of experts who are opposed to Menzies‘s theory, which stirred a hornet‘s nest among historians and academics.

      Menzies‘s website (www.1421.tv) gets 1,000 visitors a day, and some of them share their own evidence and results of their own research.

      In the last two years, through the website, Menzies and his team have managed to gather some 13,000 people from 120 countries to help them in their continuing research.

      “One of the big mistakes that I made in my book, which I will correct in my next edition, is that I put everything down to Zheng He,“ Menzies explained.

      “But I found out that his predecessor, Kublai Khan, had charted almost all of the world, including the Americas. Zheng He owed a huge amount to Kublai Khan.

      “We subsequently found Chinese maps of the Americas which predates Kublai Khan. These maps will be released to the general public on May 16 which will show that the Chinese had been mapping the Pacific and Atlantic coasts of North and South America for nearly 2,000 years.“

      Gavin Menzies
      Menzies, 66, who spent more than 10 years travelling to more than 120 countries researching his theory, is very protective of his work and said it is not true that his work has been largely criticised, it added.

      “There have been more than 8,000 reviews and mentions of my book and a vast majority accept the book‘s thrust,“ he said.

      “And of the readers of my book and those who write in or e-mail, 99.6% agree with the general thrust of my book. The number of people who say that it‘s untrue is miniscule.“

      His evidence, he said, can be broken down into three basic parts.

      First is that the European explorers such as Magellan, Christopher Columbus, Vasco Da Gama and Captain Cook all had maps showing them the way to their respective destinations.

      Secondly, when the explorers got to the Americas, they found Chinese people there.

      And lastly, Zheng He‘s records of his travels still exist despite the belief that they had been destroyed by the Ming emperors as advised by xenophobic Confucian officials.

      In fact, Menzies claimed that in China, Hong Kong and Singapore, one can get on a bus to a public library and read about it all.

      Meanwhile a Chinese-government backed documentary crew is on the hunt in Warrnambool, Australia for the wreck of one of Zheng‘s ships.

      The documentary focuses on the great historic exploratory sea voyages conducted across the globe under the command of Zheng He, 600 years ago.

      In Warrnambool the documentary will explore the possibility that one of the ships in the four giant fleets under Admiral He‘s command may have been the mystery ship wrecked off the city‘s coastline.

      “They think that instead of being Portuguese the mystery ship wrecked off the coast here might have been Chinese,“ chairman of the Mahogany Ship Committee of Warrnambool Pat Connelly said.

      Connelly escorted the film crews as they captured footage at Levys Point beach where a piece of red olive-type timber, believed to be wreckage of the mystery ship, was found last October.

      The crew‘s interpreter, Paul Qian,: “Recently in China a map from the Ming Dynasty, which was at the time of Zheng He, has been found and an outline of Australia is on the map and it is labelled as being inhabited with humans.“

      Qian said the red olive wood found at Levys Point and its history remained a mystery for the time being.

      “It needs radiocarbon dating but if it is over 700 years old it would have to be Chinese,“ he said. Connelly said the remains of a 600-year-old ship were found several months ago near Nanjing.

      “The timber was dark red, similar to the olive wood found here last October,” Connelly said.

      Who was first: Columbus or Zheng?

      Columbus versus Zheng He

      Columbus
      Some historians believe Zheng He (1371–1435) set sail in for America in July, 1405, half a century before Columbus‘ voyage to America. He was the admiral of a great fleet of big ships, each with nine masts and manned by 500 men. There were great treasure ships over 300-feet long and 150-feet wide, the biggest being 440-feet long and 186-across, capable of carrying 1,000 passengers In comparison, Columbus‘ three ships were less than 50-feet long.

      According to some historians, Zheng He (1371–1435), arguably China‘s greatest navigator, set sail in for America in July, 1405, half a century before Columbus‘ voyage to America.

      Statue of Zheng He, who was said to have been 8 feet tall.
      He was the admiral of a great fleet of big ships, with nine masts and manned by 500 men. There were great treasure ships over 300-feet long and 150-feet wide, the biggest being 440-feet long and 186-across, capable of carrying 1,000 passengers (Columbus‘ three ships were less than 50-feet long).

      Most of the ships were built at the Dragon Bay shipyard near Nanjing, the remains of which can still be seen today.

      Through his big ships, Zheng would travel to the West seven times. For 28 years, he traveled more than 50,000km and visited over 30 countries. But who was Zheng He?

      Ma He, as he was originally known, was born in 1371 to a poor ethnic Hui (Chinese Muslims) family in Yunnan Province, Southwest China. The boy‘s grandfather and father once made an overland pilgrimage to Mecca. Their travels contributed much to young Ma‘s education. He grew up speaking Arabic and Chinese, leaming much about the world to the west and its geography and customs.

      Recruited as a promising eunuch for the Imperial household at the age of ten, Ma was assigned two years later to the retinue of the then Duke Yan, who would later usurp the throne as the Emperor Yong Le.

      Ma was thus awarded the supreme command of the Imperial Household Agency and, upon his conversion to Buddhism, was given the surname Zheng and the religious name Sanbao (or Three Jewels).

      Emperor Yong Le tried to boost his damaged prestige as a usurper by a display of China‘s might abroad, sending spectacular fleets on great voyages and by bringing foreign ambassadors to his court. Command of the fleet was given to his favorite Zheng He, an impressive figure said to be over eight feet tall.

      Unfortunately, Zheng magnificent accomplishment was later targeted by other courtiers as wasteful. Most of his records were destroyed and building of ships with more than 3 masts were considered crimes punishable by death. So, a large part of his excursion has no reports.

      In Africa near Kenya today, there are tribes that are clearly Asian-looking. They also consider themselves as the descendants of Zheng He‘s crew.

      At the opposite end of the Indian Ocean, Arab storytellers tell of the fantastic seven voyages of a Muslim sailor named Sinbad.

      Or was it Sanbao? Historians wonder.

      http://paranormal.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.asianpacificpost.com/news/article/332.html

       
      "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education."
      -Albert Einstein


      Hosted By Astounding Ancients <br>
      http://all-ez.com/ancients.htm 
      To unsubscribe from this group, although we hope
      you stay and help us improve.  First consider changing to daily digest, or no mail - web only, visit main and edit membership :
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    • Shankar's Auction Service
      Boy, this sounds fascinating, let s see what came out of it in let s say ten years from now. It could as well be a well orchestrated hoax, it would not be the
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 1, 2005
      • 0 Attachment

        Boy, this sounds fascinating, let’s see what came out of it in let’s say ten years from now. It could as well be a well orchestrated hoax, it would not be the first on..

         

        Best regards

        Claus Oldag

        SHANKAR'S AUCTION SERVICE LIMITED

        671 24 68, 665 2683, 760 72 80 cell

         


        From: mike white [mailto:infoplz@...]
        Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 3:39 PM
        To: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Fw: [Ancient-Mysteries] Riddle of a lost Chinese city on the Atlantic coast

         

         

         

        ----- Original Message -----

        Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 12:44 PM

        Subject: [Ancient-Mysteries] Riddle of a lost Chinese city on the Atlantic coast

         

        Riddle of a lost Chinese city on the Atlantic coast

        Feb 24, 2005

        On May 16, a Canadian architect will tell the United Nations of a lost Chinese city on the Atlantic coast of North America, lending weight to the theory that the Chinese arrived in the New World some 70 years before Christopher Columbus.

         

        Gavin Menzies

        A Canadian architect has discovered what is believed to be the lost naval base of China‘s foremost explorer on the Atlantic coast of North America, lending weight to the theory the Chinese arrived in the New World some 70 years before Christopher Columbus.

        The revelation was made to a Malaysian newspaper by Gavin Menzies, a former British Navy submarine commander and author of the controversial best-selling book, 1421: The Year China Discovered the World.

        Menzies‘s theory that the Chinese Muslim explorer, Admiral Zheng He or Cheng Ho discovered the New World first made international headlines in March 2002 and has sparked controversy and criticism both in the West and China.

        Earlier this month, Menzies revealed that a site was found on the Atlantic coast of North America which may have been Zheng‘s naval base.

        The discoverer of the site, whom Menzies described as a “distinguished Canadian architect“, will inform the Canadian Government and then UNESCO, and ask the latter to make it a World Heritage site, The Star said.

        Public disclosure will then be made on May 16 at the Library of Congress.

        “It‘s huge,“ Menzies said.

        “It has massive walls, and has remained undiscovered for 600 years. And it‘s two-thirds the size of the Forbidden City…Walls, roads, the remains of foundations, graves, God-knows-what.

        “It would cost a vast amount of money to excavate this site. It‘s in a very difficult position to reach. We definitely do need a lot of money to carry on the research,“ according to the daily.

        “And so far, I‘ve received over C$1.23 mil from sales of my book and I‘ve ploughed all that back into research. But the scale of research required now is more than my finances can bear. So I‘m very, very interested in a foundation to raise money and carry on the research, particularly this site of Zheng He‘s.“

        Does the discovery of the naval site in North America confirm Menzies‘ theory once and for all?

        “Yes, but I don‘t need it,“ Menzies said.

         

        Columbus' ship (forefront) compared to Zheng He's massive vessel (background)

        “This discovery absolutely confirms it but, in my view, my arguments have completely confirmed it already. I could have predicted exactly where this base is, by the way.”

        Menzies theory and his book were featured in a recent Discovery Channel documentary that looked at the mystery of Zheng and his magnificent fleet of giant Ming treasure junks, which he commanded at the request of Emperor Zhu Di in the 15th century.

        Collating historical accounts, archaeological finds and consultations with modern-day historians, archaeologists and scientists, the program studied and put to the test Menzies‘s theory.

        Part of that involved the retracing of the routes that Menzies believes the Chinese took from Africa to Europe, to the Caribbean and along the eastern coast of North America .

        The documentary provided re-enactments, location shooting, and computer-generated models of Zheng‘s fleet in order to bring to life the superpower that was 15th-century China.

        It also presented the views of experts who are opposed to Menzies‘s theory, which stirred a hornet‘s nest among historians and academics.

        Menzies‘s website (www.1421.tv) gets 1,000 visitors a day, and some of them share their own evidence and results of their own research.

        In the last two years, through the website, Menzies and his team have managed to gather some 13,000 people from 120 countries to help them in their continuing research.

        “One of the big mistakes that I made in my book, which I will correct in my next edition, is that I put everything down to Zheng He,“ Menzies explained.

        “But I found out that his predecessor, Kublai Khan, had charted almost all of the world, including the Americas . Zheng He owed a huge amount to Kublai Khan.

        “We subsequently found Chinese maps of the Americas which predates Kublai Khan. These maps will be released to the general public on May 16 which will show that the Chinese had been mapping the Pacific and Atlantic coasts of North and South America for nearly 2,000 years.“

         

        Gavin Menzies

        Menzies, 66, who spent more than 10 years travelling to more than 120 countries researching his theory, is very protective of his work and said it is not true that his work has been largely criticised, it added.

        “There have been more than 8,000 reviews and mentions of my book and a vast majority accept the book‘s thrust,“ he said.

        “And of the readers of my book and those who write in or e-mail, 99.6% agree with the general thrust of my book. The number of people who say that it‘s untrue is miniscule.“

        His evidence, he said, can be broken down into three basic parts.

        First is that the European explorers such as Magellan, Christopher Columbus, Vasco Da Gama and Captain Cook all had maps showing them the way to their respective destinations.

        Secondly, when the explorers got to the Americas , they found Chinese people there.

        And lastly, Zheng He‘s records of his travels still exist despite the belief that they had been destroyed by the Ming emperors as advised by xenophobic Confucian officials.

        In fact, Menzies claimed that in China , Hong Kong and Singapore , one can get on a bus to a public library and read about it all.

        Meanwhile a Chinese-government backed documentary crew is on the hunt in Warrnambool, Australia for the wreck of one of Zheng‘s ships.

        The documentary focuses on the great historic exploratory sea voyages conducted across the globe under the command of Zheng He, 600 years ago.

        In Warrnambool the documentary will explore the possibility that one of the ships in the four giant fleets under Admiral He‘s command may have been the mystery ship wrecked off the city‘s coastline.

        “They think that instead of being Portuguese the mystery ship wrecked off the coast here might have been Chinese,“ chairman of the Mahogany Ship Committee of Warrnambool Pat Connelly said.

        Connelly escorted the film crews as they captured footage at Levys Point beach where a piece of red olive-type timber, believed to be wreckage of the mystery ship, was found last October.

        The crew‘s interpreter, Paul Qian,: “Recently in China a map from the Ming Dynasty, which was at the time of Zheng He, has been found and an outline of Australia is on the map and it is labelled as being inhabited with humans.“

        Qian said the red olive wood found at Levys Point and its history remained a mystery for the time being.

        “It needs radiocarbon dating but if it is over 700 years old it would have to be Chinese,“ he said. Connelly said the remains of a 600-year-old ship were found several months ago near Nanjing .

        “The timber was dark red, similar to the olive wood found here last October,” Connelly said.

        Who was first: Columbus or Zheng?

        Columbus versus Zheng He

         

        Columbus

        Some historians believe Zheng He (1371–1435) set sail in for America in July, 1405, half a century before Columbus ‘ voyage to America . He was the admiral of a great fleet of big ships, each with nine masts and manned by 500 men. There were great treasure ships over 300-feet long and 150-feet wide, the biggest being 440-feet long and 186-across, capable of carrying 1,000 passengers In comparison, Columbus ‘ three ships were less than 50-feet long.

        According to some historians, Zheng He (1371–1435), arguably China‘s greatest navigator, set sail in for America in July, 1405, half a century before Columbus‘ voyage to America.

         

        Statue of Zheng He, who was said to have been 8 feet tall.

        He was the admiral of a great fleet of big ships, with nine masts and manned by 500 men. There were great treasure ships over 300-feet long and 150-feet wide, the biggest being 440-feet long and 186-across, capable of carrying 1,000 passengers ( Columbus ‘ three ships were less than 50-feet long).

        Most of the ships were built at the Dragon Bay shipyard near Nanjing , the remains of which can still be seen today.

        Through his big ships, Zheng would travel to the West seven times. For 28 years, he traveled more than 50,000km and visited over 30 countries. But who was Zheng He?

        Ma He, as he was originally known, was born in 1371 to a poor ethnic Hui (Chinese Muslims) family in Yunnan Province , Southwest China . The boy‘s grandfather and father once made an overland pilgrimage to Mecca. Their travels contributed much to young Ma‘s education. He grew up speaking Arabic and Chinese, leaming much about the world to the west and its geography and customs.

        Recruited as a promising eunuch for the Imperial household at the age of ten, Ma was assigned two years later to the retinue of the then Duke Yan, who would later usurp the throne as the Emperor Yong Le.

        Ma was thus awarded the supreme command of the Imperial Household Agency and, upon his conversion to Buddhism, was given the surname Zheng and the religious name Sanbao (or Three Jewels).

        Emperor Yong Le tried to boost his damaged prestige as a usurper by a display of China‘s might abroad, sending spectacular fleets on great voyages and by bringing foreign ambassadors to his court. Command of the fleet was given to his favorite Zheng He, an impressive figure said to be over eight feet tall.

        Unfortunately, Zheng magnificent accomplishment was later targeted by other courtiers as wasteful. Most of his records were destroyed and building of ships with more than 3 masts were considered crimes punishable by death. So, a large part of his excursion has no reports.

        In Africa near Kenya today, there are tribes that are clearly Asian-looking. They also consider themselves as the descendants of Zheng He‘s crew.

        At the opposite end of the Indian Ocean , Arab storytellers tell of the fantastic seven voyages of a Muslim sailor named Sinbad.

        Or was it Sanbao? Historians wonder.

        http://paranormal.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.asianpacificpost.com/news/article/332.html

         

        "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education."
        -Albert Einstein



        Hosted By Astounding Ancients <br>
        http://all-ez.com/ancients.htm 
        To unsubscribe from this group, although we hope
        you stay and help us improve.  First consider changing to daily digest, or no mail - web only, visit main and edit membership :
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      • luis_browne
        Anybody have any idea where this port was supposed to be located? ... say ten ... would not ... Atlantic ...
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 1, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          Anybody have any idea where this port was supposed to be located?

          --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com, "Shankar's Auction
          Service" <auction@r...> wrote:
          > Boy, this sounds fascinating, let's see what came out of it in let's
          say ten
          > years from now. It could as well be a well orchestrated hoax, it
          would not
          > be the first on..
          >
          > Best regards
          > Claus Oldag
          > SHANKAR'S AUCTION SERVICE LIMITED
          > 671 24 68, 665 2683, 760 72 80 cell
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: mike white [mailto:infoplz@c...]
          > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 3:39 PM
          > To: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Fw: [Ancient-Mysteries] Riddle of a
          > lost Chinese city on the Atlantic coast
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: mythisis@a...
          > To: undisclosed-recipients:
          > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 12:44 PM
          > Subject: [Ancient-Mysteries] Riddle of a lost Chinese city on the
          Atlantic
          > coast
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Riddle of a lost Chinese city on the Atlantic coast
          >
          >
          >
          <http://www.asianpacificpost.com/news_media/images/site_wide/pub/spacer.gif>
          >
          >
          > Feb 24, 2005
          >
          > On May 16, a Canadian architect will tell the United Nations of a lost
          > Chinese city on the Atlantic coast of North America, lending weight
          to the
          > theory that the Chinese arrived in the New World some 70 years before
          > Christopher Columbus.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Gavin Menzies
          > A Canadian architect has discovered what is believed to be the lost
          naval
          > base of China's foremost explorer on the Atlantic coast of North
          America,
          > lending weight to the theory the Chinese arrived in the New World
          some 70
          > years before Christopher Columbus.
          > The revelation was made to a Malaysian newspaper by Gavin Menzies, a
          former
          > British Navy submarine commander and author of the controversial
          > best-selling book, 1421: The Year China Discovered the World.
          > Menzies's theory that the Chinese Muslim explorer, Admiral Zheng He
          or Cheng
          > Ho discovered the New World first made international headlines in
          March 2002
          > and has sparked controversy and criticism both in the West and China.
          > Earlier this month, Menzies revealed that a site was found on the
          Atlantic
          > coast of North America which may have been Zheng's naval base.
          > The discoverer of the site, whom Menzies described as a "distinguished
          > Canadian architect", will inform the Canadian Government and then
          UNESCO,
          > and ask the latter to make it a World Heritage site, The Star said.
          > Public disclosure will then be made on May 16 at the Library of
          Congress.
          > "It's huge," Menzies said.
          > "It has massive walls, and has remained undiscovered for 600 years.
          And it's
          > two-thirds the size of the Forbidden City.Walls, roads, the remains of
          > foundations, graves, God-knows-what.
          > "It would cost a vast amount of money to excavate this site. It's in
          a very
          > difficult position to reach. We definitely do need a lot of money to
          carry
          > on the research," according to the daily.
          > "And so far, I've received over C$1.23 mil from sales of my book and
          I've
          > ploughed all that back into research. But the scale of research
          required now
          > is more than my finances can bear. So I'm very, very interested in a
          > foundation to raise money and carry on the research, particularly
          this site
          > of Zheng He's."
          > Does the discovery of the naval site in North America confirm Menzies'
          > theory once and for all?
          > "Yes, but I don't need it," Menzies said.
          >
          >
          >
          > Columbus' ship (forefront) compared to Zheng He's massive vessel
          > (background)
          > "This discovery absolutely confirms it but, in my view, my arguments
          have
          > completely confirmed it already. I could have predicted exactly
          where this
          > base is, by the way."
          > Menzies theory and his book were featured in a recent Discovery Channel
          > documentary that looked at the mystery of Zheng and his magnificent
          fleet of
          > giant Ming treasure junks, which he commanded at the request of
          Emperor Zhu
          > Di in the 15th century.
          > Collating historical accounts, archaeological finds and
          consultations with
          > modern-day historians, archaeologists and scientists, the program
          studied
          > and put to the test Menzies's theory.
          > Part of that involved the retracing of the routes that Menzies
          believes the
          > Chinese took from Africa to Europe, to the Caribbean and along the
          eastern
          > coast of North America.
          > The documentary provided re-enactments, location shooting, and
          > computer-generated models of Zheng's fleet in order to bring to life the
          > superpower that was 15th-century China.
          > It also presented the views of experts who are opposed to Menzies's
          theory,
          > which stirred a hornet's nest among historians and academics.
          > Menzies's website (www.1421.tv <http://www.1421.tv/> ) gets 1,000
          visitors a
          > day, and some of them share their own evidence and results of their own
          > research.
          > In the last two years, through the website, Menzies and his team have
          > managed to gather some 13,000 people from 120 countries to help them in
          > their continuing research.
          > "One of the big mistakes that I made in my book, which I will
          correct in my
          > next edition, is that I put everything down to Zheng He," Menzies
          explained.
          > "But I found out that his predecessor, Kublai Khan, had charted
          almost all
          > of the world, including the Americas. Zheng He owed a huge amount to
          Kublai
          > Khan.
          > "We subsequently found Chinese maps of the Americas which predates
          Kublai
          > Khan. These maps will be released to the general public on May 16
          which will
          > show that the Chinese had been mapping the Pacific and Atlantic
          coasts of
          > North and South America for nearly 2,000 years."
          >
          >
          >
          > Gavin Menzies
          > Menzies, 66, who spent more than 10 years travelling to more than 120
          > countries researching his theory, is very protective of his work and
          said it
          > is not true that his work has been largely criticised, it added.
          > "There have been more than 8,000 reviews and mentions of my book and
          a vast
          > majority accept the book's thrust," he said.
          > "And of the readers of my book and those who write in or e-mail,
          99.6% agree
          > with the general thrust of my book. The number of people who say
          that it's
          > untrue is miniscule."
          > His evidence, he said, can be broken down into three basic parts.
          > First is that the European explorers such as Magellan, Christopher
          Columbus,
          > Vasco Da Gama and Captain Cook all had maps showing them the way to
          their
          > respective destinations.
          > Secondly, when the explorers got to the Americas, they found Chinese
          people
          > there.
          > And lastly, Zheng He's records of his travels still exist despite
          the belief
          > that they had been destroyed by the Ming emperors as advised by
          xenophobic
          > Confucian officials.
          > In fact, Menzies claimed that in China, Hong Kong and Singapore, one
          can get
          > on a bus to a public library and read about it all.
          > Meanwhile a Chinese-government backed documentary crew is on the hunt in
          > Warrnambool, Australia for the wreck of one of Zheng's ships.
          > The documentary focuses on the great historic exploratory sea voyages
          > conducted across the globe under the command of Zheng He, 600 years ago.
          > In Warrnambool the documentary will explore the possibility that one
          of the
          > ships in the four giant fleets under Admiral He's command may have
          been the
          > mystery ship wrecked off the city's coastline.
          > "They think that instead of being Portuguese the mystery ship
          wrecked off
          > the coast here might have been Chinese," chairman of the Mahogany Ship
          > Committee of Warrnambool Pat Connelly said.
          > Connelly escorted the film crews as they captured footage at Levys Point
          > beach where a piece of red olive-type timber, believed to be
          wreckage of the
          > mystery ship, was found last October.
          > The crew's interpreter, Paul Qian,: "Recently in China a map from
          the Ming
          > Dynasty, which was at the time of Zheng He, has been found and an
          outline of
          > Australia is on the map and it is labelled as being inhabited with
          humans."
          > Qian said the red olive wood found at Levys Point and its history
          remained a
          > mystery for the time being.
          > "It needs radiocarbon dating but if it is over 700 years old it
          would have
          > to be Chinese," he said. Connelly said the remains of a 600-year-old
          ship
          > were found several months ago near Nanjing.
          > "The timber was dark red, similar to the olive wood found here last
          > October," Connelly said.
          >
          > Who was first: Columbus or Zheng?
          >
          > Columbus versus Zheng He
          >
          >
          >
          > Columbus
          > Some historians believe Zheng He (1371-1435) set sail in for America in
          > July, 1405, half a century before Columbus' voyage to America. He
          was the
          > admiral of a great fleet of big ships, each with nine masts and
          manned by
          > 500 men. There were great treasure ships over 300-feet long and 150-feet
          > wide, the biggest being 440-feet long and 186-across, capable of
          carrying
          > 1,000 passengers In comparison, Columbus' three ships were less than
          50-feet
          > long.
          > According to some historians, Zheng He (1371-1435), arguably China's
          > greatest navigator, set sail in for America in July, 1405, half a
          century
          > before Columbus' voyage to America.
          >
          >
          >
          > Statue of Zheng He, who was said to have been 8 feet tall.
          > He was the admiral of a great fleet of big ships, with nine masts
          and manned
          > by 500 men. There were great treasure ships over 300-feet long and
          150-feet
          > wide, the biggest being 440-feet long and 186-across, capable of
          carrying
          > 1,000 passengers (Columbus' three ships were less than 50-feet long).
          > Most of the ships were built at the Dragon Bay shipyard near
          Nanjing, the
          > remains of which can still be seen today.
          > Through his big ships, Zheng would travel to the West seven times.
          For 28
          > years, he traveled more than 50,000km and visited over 30 countries.
          But who
          > was Zheng He?
          > Ma He, as he was originally known, was born in 1371 to a poor ethnic Hui
          > (Chinese Muslims) family in Yunnan Province, Southwest China. The boy's
          > grandfather and father once made an overland pilgrimage to Mecca. Their
          > travels contributed much to young Ma's education. He grew up
          speaking Arabic
          > and Chinese, leaming much about the world to the west and its
          geography and
          > customs.
          > Recruited as a promising eunuch for the Imperial household at the age of
          > ten, Ma was assigned two years later to the retinue of the then Duke
          Yan,
          > who would later usurp the throne as the Emperor Yong Le.
          > Ma was thus awarded the supreme command of the Imperial Household Agency
          > and, upon his conversion to Buddhism, was given the surname Zheng
          and the
          > religious name Sanbao (or Three Jewels).
          > Emperor Yong Le tried to boost his damaged prestige as a usurper by a
          > display of China's might abroad, sending spectacular fleets on great
          voyages
          > and by bringing foreign ambassadors to his court. Command of the
          fleet was
          > given to his favorite Zheng He, an impressive figure said to be over
          eight
          > feet tall.
          > Unfortunately, Zheng magnificent accomplishment was later targeted
          by other
          > courtiers as wasteful. Most of his records were destroyed and
          building of
          > ships with more than 3 masts were considered crimes punishable by
          death. So,
          > a large part of his excursion has no reports.
          > In Africa near Kenya today, there are tribes that are clearly
          Asian-looking.
          > They also consider themselves as the descendants of Zheng He's crew.
          > At the opposite end of the Indian Ocean, Arab storytellers tell of the
          > fantastic seven voyages of a Muslim sailor named Sinbad.
          > Or was it Sanbao? Historians wonder.
          >
          http://paranormal.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.asianpaci
          > ficpost.com/news/article/332.html
          >
          > "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education."
          > -Albert Einstein
          >
          >
          > Hosted By Astounding Ancients <br>
          > http://all-ez.com/ancients.htm
          > To unsubscribe from this group, although we hope
          > you stay and help us improve. First consider changing to daily
          digest, or
          > no mail - web only, visit main and edit membership :
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ancient-Mysteries
          > if you must leave send a blank email to:
          > mailto: Ancient-Mysteries-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Unsubscribe from
          > Ancient-Mysteries
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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          > To unsubscribe from this group, although we hope
          > you stay and help us improve. First consider changing to daily
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          > no mail - web only, visit main and edit membership :
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          > if you must leave send an email to:
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          >
          >
          >
          >
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          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          >
          >
          > ADVERTISEMENT
          >
          >
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          >
          oups/S=1705739206:HM/EXP=1109707494/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http:/www.n
          > etflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075> click here
          >
          >
          >
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          > Yahoo! Groups Links
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          > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
        • Shankar's Auction Service
          Luis, we have to wait until the 16th of May, 2005 ! - Until then it is only on the Atlantic Ocean side of the continent. I am rally keen to hear this news,
          Message 4 of 4 , Mar 1, 2005
          • 0 Attachment

            Luis, we have to wait until the 16th of May, 2005 ! – Until then it is only on the Atlantic Ocean side of the continent. I am rally keen to hear this news, make a mark in youyr calendar.

             

            Best regards

            Claus Oldag

            671 24 68, 665 2683, 760 72 80 cell

             


            From: luis_browne [mailto:luis_browne@...]
            Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 10:33 AM
            To: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: Fw: [Ancient-Mysteries] Riddle of a lost Chinese city on the Atlantic coast

             


            Anybody have any idea where this port was supposed to be located?

            --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com , "Shankar's Auction
            Service" <auction@r...> wrote:
            > Boy, this sounds fascinating, let's see what came out of it in let's
            say ten
            > years from now. It could as well be a well orchestrated hoax, it
            would not
            > be the first on..

            > Best regards
            > Claus Oldag
            > SHANKAR'S AUCTION SERVICE LIMITED
            > 671 24 68, 665 2683, 760 72 80 cell

            >   _____ 
            >
            > From: mike white [mailto:infoplz@c...]
            > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 3:39 PM
            > To: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Fw: [Ancient-Mysteries] Riddle of a
            > lost Chinese city on the Atlantic coast



            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: mythisis@a...
            > To: undisclosed-recipients:
            > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 12:44 PM
            > Subject: [Ancient-Mysteries] Riddle of a lost Chinese city on the
            Atlantic
            > coast

            >
            >
            >
            > Riddle of a lost Chinese city on the Atlantic coast
            >

            >
            <http://www.asianpacificpost.com/news_media/images/site_wide/pub/spacer.gif>
            >
            >
            > Feb 24, 2005
            >
            > On May 16, a Canadian architect will tell the United Nations of a lost
            > Chinese city on the Atlantic coast of North America , lending weight
            to the
            > theory that the Chinese arrived in the New World some 70 years before
            > Christopher Columbus.
            >
            >

            >
            > Gavin Menzies
            > A Canadian architect has discovered what is believed to be the lost
            naval
            > base of China 's foremost explorer on the Atlantic coast of North
            America,
            > lending weight to the theory the Chinese arrived in the New World
            some 70
            > years before Christopher Columbus.
            > The revelation was made to a Malaysian newspaper by Gavin Menzies, a
            former
            > British Navy submarine commander and author of the controversial
            > best-selling book, 1421: The Year China Discovered the World.
            > Menzies's theory that the Chinese Muslim explorer, Admiral Zheng He
            or Cheng
            > Ho discovered the New World first made international headlines in
            March 2002
            > and has sparked controversy and criticism both in the West and China .
            > Earlier this month, Menzies revealed that a site was found on the
            Atlantic
            > coast of North America which may have been Zheng's naval base.
            > The discoverer of the site, whom Menzies described as a "distinguished
            > Canadian architect", will inform the Canadian Government and then
            UNESCO,
            > and ask the latter to make it a World Heritage site, The Star said.
            > Public disclosure will then be made on May 16 at the Library of
            Congress.
            > "It's huge," Menzies said.
            > "It has massive walls, and has remained undiscovered for 600 years.
            And it's
            > two-thirds the size of the Forbidden City.Walls, roads, the remains of
            > foundations, graves, God-knows-what.
            > "It would cost a vast amount of money to excavate this site. It's in
            a very
            > difficult position to reach. We definitely do need a lot of money to
            carry
            > on the research," according to the daily.
            > "And so far, I've received over C$1.23 mil from sales of my book and
            I've
            > ploughed all that back into research. But the scale of research
            required now
            > is more than my finances can bear. So I'm very, very interested in a
            > foundation to raise money and carry on the research, particularly
            this site
            > of Zheng He's."
            > Does the discovery of the naval site in North America confirm Menzies'
            > theory once and for all?
            > "Yes, but I don't need it," Menzies said.
            >

            >
            > Columbus ' ship (forefront) compared to Zheng He's massive vessel
            > (background)
            > "This discovery absolutely confirms it but, in my view, my arguments
            have
            > completely confirmed it already. I could have predicted exactly
            where this
            > base is, by the way."
            > Menzies theory and his book were featured in a recent Discovery Channel
            > documentary that looked at the mystery of Zheng and his magnificent
            fleet of
            > giant Ming treasure junks, which he commanded at the request of
            Emperor Zhu
            > Di in the 15th century.
            > Collating historical accounts, archaeological finds and
            consultations with
            > modern-day historians, archaeologists and scientists, the program
            studied
            > and put to the test Menzies's theory.
            > Part of that involved the retracing of the routes that Menzies
            believes the
            > Chinese took from Africa to Europe, to the Caribbean and along the
            eastern
            > coast of North America .
            > The documentary provided re-enactments, location shooting, and
            > computer-generated models of Zheng's fleet in order to bring to life the
            > superpower that was 15th-century China .
            > It also presented the views of experts who are opposed to Menzies's
            theory,
            > which stirred a hornet's nest among historians and academics.
            > Menzies's website (www.1421.tv <http://www.1421.tv/> ) gets 1,000
            visitors a
            > day, and some of them share their own evidence and results of their own
            > research.
            > In the last two years, through the website, Menzies and his team have
            > managed to gather some 13,000 people from 120 countries to help them in
            > their continuing research.
            > "One of the big mistakes that I made in my book, which I will
            correct in my
            > next edition, is that I put everything down to Zheng He," Menzies
            explained.
            > "But I found out that his predecessor, Kublai Khan, had charted
            almost all
            > of the world, including the Americas . Zheng He owed a huge amount to
            Kublai
            > Khan.
            > "We subsequently found Chinese maps of the Americas which predates
            Kublai
            > Khan. These maps will be released to the general public on May 16
            which will
            > show that the Chinese had been mapping the Pacific and Atlantic
            coasts of
            > North and South America for nearly 2,000 years."
            >

            >
            > Gavin Menzies
            > Menzies, 66, who spent more than 10 years travelling to more than 120
            > countries researching his theory, is very protective of his work and
            said it
            > is not true that his work has been largely criticised, it added.
            > "There have been more than 8,000 reviews and mentions of my book and
            a vast
            > majority accept the book's thrust," he said.
            > "And of the readers of my book and those who write in or e-mail,
            99.6% agree
            > with the general thrust of my book. The number of people who say
            that it's
            > untrue is miniscule."
            > His evidence, he said, can be broken down into three basic parts.
            > First is that the European explorers such as Magellan, Christopher
            Columbus,
            > Vasco Da Gama and Captain Cook all had maps showing them the way to
            their
            > respective destinations.
            > Secondly, when the explorers got to the Americas , they found Chinese
            people
            > there.
            > And lastly, Zheng He's records of his travels still exist despite
            the belief
            > that they had been destroyed by the Ming emperors as advised by
            xenophobic
            > Confucian officials.
            > In fact, Menzies claimed that in China , Hong Kong and Singapore , one
            can get
            > on a bus to a public library and read about it all.
            > Meanwhile a Chinese-government backed documentary crew is on the hunt in
            > Warrnambool , Australia for the wreck of one of Zheng's ships.
            > The documentary focuses on the great historic exploratory sea voyages
            > conducted across the globe under the command of Zheng He, 600 years ago.
            > In Warrnambool the documentary will explore the possibility that one
            of the
            > ships in the four giant fleets under Admiral He's command may have
            been the
            > mystery ship wrecked off the city's coastline.
            > "They think that instead of being Portuguese the mystery ship
            wrecked off
            > the coast here might have been Chinese," chairman of the Mahogany Ship
            > Committee of Warrnambool Pat Connelly said.
            > Connelly escorted the film crews as they captured footage at Levys Point
            > beach where a piece of red olive-type timber, believed to be
            wreckage of the
            > mystery ship, was found last October.
            > The crew's interpreter, Paul Qian,: "Recently in China a map from
            the Ming
            > Dynasty, which was at the time of Zheng He, has been found and an
            outline of
            > Australia is on the map and it is labelled as being inhabited with
            humans."
            > Qian said the red olive wood found at Levys Point and its history
            remained a
            > mystery for the time being.
            > "It needs radiocarbon dating but if it is over 700 years old it
            would have
            > to be Chinese," he said. Connelly said the remains of a 600-year-old
            ship
            > were found several months ago near Nanjing .
            > "The timber was dark red, similar to the olive wood found here last
            > October," Connelly said.
            >
            > Who was first: Columbus or Zheng?
            >
            > Columbus versus Zheng He
            >

            >
            > Columbus
            > Some historians believe Zheng He (1371-1435) set sail in for America in
            > July, 1405, half a century before Columbus ' voyage to America . He
            was the
            > admiral of a great fleet of big ships, each with nine masts and
            manned by
            > 500 men. There were great treasure ships over 300-feet long and 150-feet
            > wide, the biggest being 440-feet long and 186-across, capable of
            carrying
            > 1,000 passengers In comparison, Columbus ' three ships were less than
            50-feet
            > long.
            > According to some historians, Zheng He (1371-1435), arguably China 's
            > greatest navigator, set sail in for America in July, 1405, half a
            century
            > before Columbus ' voyage to America .
            >

            >
            > Statue of Zheng He, who was said to have been 8 feet tall.
            > He was the admiral of a great fleet of big ships, with nine masts
            and manned
            > by 500 men. There were great treasure ships over 300-feet long and
            150-feet
            > wide, the biggest being 440-feet long and 186-across, capable of
            carrying
            > 1,000 passengers ( Columbus ' three ships were less than 50-feet long).
            > Most of the ships were built at the Dragon Bay shipyard near
            Nanjing, the
            > remains of which can still be seen today.
            > Through his big ships, Zheng would travel to the West seven times.
            For 28
            > years, he traveled more than 50,000km and visited over 30 countries.
            But who
            > was Zheng He?
            > Ma He, as he was originally known, was born in 1371 to a poor ethnic Hui
            > (Chinese Muslims) family in Yunnan Province , Southwest China . The boy's
            > grandfather and father once made an overland pilgrimage to Mecca . Their
            > travels contributed much to young Ma's education. He grew up
            speaking Arabic
            > and Chinese, leaming much about the world to the west and its
            geography and
            > customs.
            > Recruited as a promising eunuch for the Imperial household at the age of
            > ten, Ma was assigned two years later to the retinue of the then Duke
            Yan,
            > who would later usurp the throne as the Emperor Yong Le.
            > Ma was thus awarded the supreme command of the Imperial Household Agency
            > and, upon his conversion to Buddhism, was given the surname Zheng
            and the
            > religious name Sanbao (or Three Jewels).
            > Emperor Yong Le tried to boost his damaged prestige as a usurper by a
            > display of China 's might abroad, sending spectacular fleets on great
            voyages
            > and by bringing foreign ambassadors to his court. Command of the
            fleet was
            > given to his favorite Zheng He, an impressive figure said to be over
            eight
            > feet tall.
            > Unfortunately, Zheng magnificent accomplishment was later targeted
            by other
            > courtiers as wasteful. Most of his records were destroyed and
            building of
            > ships with more than 3 masts were considered crimes punishable by
            death. So,
            > a large part of his excursion has no reports.
            > In Africa near Kenya today, there are tribes that are clearly
            Asian-looking.
            > They also consider themselves as the descendants of Zheng He's crew.
            > At the opposite end of the Indian Ocean , Arab storytellers tell of the
            > fantastic seven voyages of a Muslim sailor named Sinbad.
            > Or was it Sanbao? Historians wonder.
            >
            http://paranormal.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.asianpaci
            > ficpost.com/news/article/332.html

            > "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education."
            > -Albert Einstein
            >
            >
            > Hosted By Astounding Ancients <br>
            > http://all-ez.com/ancients.htm 
            > To unsubscribe from this group, although we hope
            > you stay and help us improve.  First consider changing to daily
            digest, or
            > no mail - web only, visit main and edit membership :
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            > if you must leave send a blank email to:
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            > Ancient-Mysteries
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            > no mail - web only, visit main and edit membership :
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