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  • mike white
    http://www.archaeology.org/interactive/tiwanaku/index.html its sad that the andean people are so poor. they need better government. its almost impossible to
    Message 1 of 39 , Dec 12, 2004
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         its sad that the andean people are so poor.  they need better government.  its almost impossible to find an honest person that cannot be corrupted by power and money.  the people were living better under inca rule than they have since.  consider how much improved life would be if the government organized the people and put them to work on public projects.  restore the ancient irrigation systems that have silted up.  plant crops on all of the fertile lands.  restore the textile industry by selective breeding of the herds.  every woman should learn to make clothing.  improve the schools.  the nations of south america should make an economic alliance, and work together for the common good, like north america and europe have done.  imagine the good that would result if the andean countries could lay aside their nationalism and cooperate.  peru, bolivia, chile, and ecuador were united in former times, and should consider working together again. 
         plz forgive the somewhat off-topic nature of this post. 
       
       
      Kind regards,
      Mike White
      http://all-ez.com/yahoo-groups.htm
       
       
    • mike white
      first, tiwanaku, the mystics were silent on whether the city was first built at sealevel. the entire altiplano has the look of having been under the sea, then
      Message 39 of 39 , Oct 30, 2012
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           first, tiwanaku, the mystics were silent on whether the city was first built at sealevel.  the entire altiplano has the look of having been under the sea, then uplifted.  pillow lava on the side of a volcano, marine sediments, and a line of salt lakes to the south by southwest.  imho, during a severe quake, the land could have fallen below the sea, only to be uplifted two miles into the clouds. 
            it was reported that some of the carved stones had a veneer of limestone.  twenty-two different depictions of toxodons were identified.  this creature, who loved tropical swamps, near sealevel, was found all over tiwanaku, but went extinct over 10,000 years ago.  some of the human bones found were fossilized.  all indicative of great age. 
           some say tiwanaku was once a seaport.  currently, we only can see the ruins of a high temple area, and within a mile or so, the colossal works in a jumble at puma punku. 
           the altiplano, called the puno, is a vast basin, the drain apparently had been at la paz, a deep gulley, having been eroded by floods.  after the submersion, the basin was likely quite full of seawater, but the uplift, not being level, gave enough tilt to drain most of the water away.  the old shelf of the lake is not parallel to the current surface of titicaca.  when the land was seabed, the people terraced the tops of mountains.  the experts admit that the oldest terraces were near the top.  this is opposite to common sense ordinarily. 
           its my opinion, that the altiplano, had been uplifted by a peak wave of magma, that soon subsided, leaving a void under the land.  the rumbles heard during quakes suggests that the vast caverns are full of air, and maybe water.  some volcanoes erupt water with fish in it.  incredibly, the altiplano, could fall rapidly, by thousands of feet, if the air and water escape during an eruption or quake. 
           tiwanaku, could have been an earlier troy, controlling the gate between the east and the west.  canals there can still be identified.  old world contacts with the andes appear to be prior to 3000 bce.  it would seem that earth-changes about that time cut-off the sea trade with the amazon and old world.   the ancient principle sea trade route could have been thru the center of south america, terminating at tiwanaku.   the river platte may have been part of the route.  a river runs mainly north-south at the eastern foot of the andes, connecting with the platte and other rivers running east. 
           darwin confirmed the eastern andes were uplifted last.  that uplift may have raised the altiplano with it, but not near as long ago as most accept.  many cultures to the west exhibit too many tropical jungle relics, for it to have come from distant trade.  their cultivated lands become desert.  these ruins can be found from ica south thru the atacama desert, along dried up riverbeds.  it seems clear that the great geological event occurred during the time of cultured man. 
           like a glass of saltwater, over time the salt settles to the bottom of a basin.  i expect that titicaca gets more saline with greater depth.  the inca could only draw off the water near the surface, to be more fresh for crops, etc.  directing the flow thru sand or limestone would further remove salt. 
           i wonder if the inca had found a way to release water from the uplifted lakes to the coastal dry lands?  we wait for more field surveys to trace the source of aquaducts and channels.  from the remains seen, its certain that those folks were expert on hydraulics, and water management.  most of the old water works have failed from lack of maintenance. 
            the bottom of titicaca likely covers old cities.  these have been seen already.  since the lake is shrinking, the old cities must have been built before the submersion in the sea.  the former surface of the altiplano is now covered by mud and sediments to a great depth in parts.  most of the older structures must be buried under the mud and sediments.  we are merely seeing the tip of the iceberg.  
           i continue to hope that one day bolivia will see the advantages of buildng a gate at tiquina, so that the water level could be lowered in the southern section of titicaca.  they would continue to have a long portion of shoreline.  it may yield lots of land, plus maybe uncover some secrets of its long history.  if done gradually, the impact upon the biosphere would be minimal.  a process may be found to remove the salts, to be sold, and use the water for crops.  [its done in israel.] 
           it should be added, that its easier for the altiplano to drop, than it was to be uplifted.  one day, it could suddenly drop during a quake!  its resting upon fluids, that could move quickly. 
           of course, the text books say otherwise.  let the reader decide. 
         
        mike
         
         
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