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Re: mound dating

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  • michael white
    hi pam, terri, john, friends: michell is a very interesting author. i especially treasure his, new view over atlantis . it has very little about atlantis,
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 5, 2001
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      hi pam, terri, john, friends:

      michell is a very interesting author. i especially treasure
      his, 'new view over atlantis'. it has very little about atlantis,
      mainly discussing leylines, ancient mathematics, and the ancient
      sites of england. i saw my error soon after when i posted the bear
      mounds as in wisc, they are in ne iowa nearby. like s&d i find those
      mounds anomalous to other early ones, and expect they were built by
      europeans within the last 3,000 years. i havent seen the remark
      about 'talking trees'. this is eye-catching to me because as a
      mystic this meditation by and learning from trees has been recorded
      in many times and places, eg dodona greece, hebron/mamre israel.
      many bowsprits were carved from live oaks. which genetically look
      remarkably similar to our own helical dna. i will save further
      discussion of this for the ancient-mysteries list.
      many of us here have discussed the shang/olmec connection. we
      have mr winters, who linguistically feels the olmec have an africa
      origin, from common aryan roots possibly. i still cling to my own
      theory that a lost land in the north pacific was the origin for the
      shang. when their land was sunk about 3100bce, they invaded china as
      the shang, and also entered mexico, joining or becoming the olmec.
      ive refined image processing to make earlier posts easier to
      read, so you may want to look over those extracts from ancient
      monuments now. the fort butler area also had much evidence of
      intense heat, including the sides of a 10ft mound outside its
      entrance.
      when this book was written in 1848 settlers had only been in the
      area for about 50 years. yet the mounds had already been destroyed
      greatly by numerous roads and canals. with so much nearby surface
      for these improvements, it was very disturbing that so little respect
      was shown these great works. but as i thought about it, i realized
      that these roads started out from trails laid by interested people
      like us, that wanted to see the mounds.
      the huge amount of labor can not be stressed enough. these
      mounds and earthworks can be compared to the panama canal, the great
      pyramid, and the great wall of china - in the man-hours required for
      their construction. the enigmatic message still cannot be fathomed.
      the newark group are the most incredible. ive walked among them
      awed.
      pam, paul, and others considering a canoe trip should consider
      this area as prime. the scioto and licking rivers, and paint creek
      border the most developed ancient landscape. it may be possible to
      make new discoveries, even at this late date. not much new has been
      added for the last 150 years.
      a special welcome to our new member 'geodowser', and the others,
      now 41. he is very learned in many areas. he has much knowledge of
      burrows' cave, having been there and seen these objects first-hand.
      many of us are anxious for new info about this.
      i think this book review idea has much to offer for the group. i
      will assist any others who wish to do likewise later.


      regards
      mike



      --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@y..., "Pam Giese" <pgiese@p...>
      wrote:
      > In an early issue of The Ley Hunter, John Mitchell suggests that
      some of the effigy mounds (i.e. the group in MacGreagor and some
      around Madison, WI) were aligned to follow constellations (lke the
      Great Bear) rather than alignments. He also notes that Squier and
      Davis mentioned mounds aligning to "TalkingTrees" (large distinctive
      trees used as markers) or as beacons. While Dr. Jim Schertz has
      shown some solar and lunar alignments to some mounds high on hills, I
      don't find it surprising that we don't find solar or lunar alignments
      on all of these.
      >
      > While large temple sites like Cahokia or Aztalan were cities on
      areas where large acreage were cleared, many of the effigy mound
      sites follow the rivers and were on the edge of woodland. If you'd
      out in these flat woodland areas, it can be very difficult to get a
      clear view of the horizon!
      >
      > Pam
      > pgiese@p...
      > **Check out Women as Priests screensaver at:
      > http://www.womenpriests.org/interact/screen.htm ***
      > http://www.oblatesofholysophia.org
    • Paul Troemner
      Mike, Some further thoughts: Vitrification- What happens when a projectile of burning sulfur strikes? Does the molten sulfur cool and vitrify everthing with
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 7, 2001
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        Mike,

        Some further thoughts:

        Vitrification- What happens when a projectile of
        burning sulfur strikes? Does the molten sulfur cool
        and vitrify everthing with it? Anyone know of sources
        of sulfur in Ohio? Perhaps burning sulfur (aka fire
        and "brimstone") was used in Ohio during warfare with
        crude catapults to burn the palisades and resulted in
        vitrification of the fortress walls? Has anyone done
        a chemical analysis of the vitrification?

        The height of the walls above the river level:
        Perhaps the remaining walls are only the ones that
        survived floods over the millenia. What is the flood
        stage level (essentially the highest recorded over the
        last 100 to 150 years)? Perhaps the builders of the
        mounds lived in the area long enough to know how high
        to start building their earthworks to avoid flood
        damage. No sense in spending that much labor and
        material on an earthwork that would be scoured away
        during high water or floods.

        It was my understanding that the defensive earthworks
        dated from the Hopewell horizon (100BC-400AD). The
        effigy mounds dated from later Mississippian horizon
        (600AD-900AD?). However, my recollection on this is
        not clear.

        From "Atlas of Ancient America" by Coe, Snow, &
        Benson:
        p. 56 Cahokia (Illinois) peak between 1050AD and
        1250AD.
        p. 52 Hopewell (Scioto valley, southern Ohio) mounds
        built between 100BC and 600AD.
        p. 51 Serpent Mound (Ohio) either Adena (1100BC-700BC)
        or Hopewell.

        One of my earlier posts mentioned "hastily built"
        forts. Perhaps they were not hastily built, but built
        by later descendants of the geometric earthworks
        builders, who had been driven northward, and had
        different architectural preferences.

        Paul




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      • michael white
        paul i know nothing about sulfur and these things. i think we must also consider greek fire when discussing the possibilities concerning ancient warfare.
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 7, 2001
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          paul i know nothing about sulfur and these things. i think we
          must also consider "greek fire" when discussing the possibilities
          concerning ancient warfare. its possible it was involved in scotland
          and ohio. its now lost knowledge, but enough mentions were made of
          its use in ancient times, that we cant rule it out. anyone smart
          enough to bring mica and quartz crystal together, is capable of most
          anything in science, and its clear they went beyond us and were using
          these substances with etheric currents in metaphysical ways. mica
          that ive found was in small flakes, the ones found in moundbuilder
          graves were large sheets. the sheet size is the plate for storing
          electricity, the larger the better. to place these minerals on a
          leyline would pull these subtle forces out of thin air, causing the
          place to be more holy, or charged with these forces. thats why high
          places have always been the holiest, just as high antennas receive
          better. these graves are probably high priests or guards, with the
          energized ka, forever vigilant. egypt has such to this day. sorry
          to get off topic. just making my point on these wise ones.
          i could be confused on this : recall the sacred way and boat ramp
          at marietta, with evidence that the scioto river cut 30 feet deeper
          into its bed. hoary with age, comes to mind. it seems that this is
          the new port on the ohio river. in ages past the scioto entered the
          ohio river at portsmouth, very likely much older works than at
          marrietta !!! this is incredible. imho
          yes, they chose only the higher terraces for their works. the
          amount of erosion is indicative of hundreds of storms of the century,
          over millennias. thats why 200bc to 600ad is ridiculous.


          regards
          imho



          --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@y..., Paul Troemner <troemner@y...>
          wrote:
          > Mike,
          >
          > Some further thoughts:
          >
          > Vitrification- What happens when a projectile of
          > burning sulfur strikes? Does the molten sulfur cool
          > and vitrify everthing with it? Anyone know of sources
          > of sulfur in Ohio? Perhaps burning sulfur (aka fire
          > and "brimstone") was used in Ohio during warfare with
          > crude catapults to burn the palisades and resulted in
          > vitrification of the fortress walls? Has anyone done
          > a chemical analysis of the vitrification?
          >
          > The height of the walls above the river level:
          > Perhaps the remaining walls are only the ones that
          > survived floods over the millenia. What is the flood
          > stage level (essentially the highest recorded over the
          > last 100 to 150 years)? Perhaps the builders of the
          > mounds lived in the area long enough to know how high
          > to start building their earthworks to avoid flood
          > damage. No sense in spending that much labor and
          > material on an earthwork that would be scoured away
          > during high water or floods.
          >
          > It was my understanding that the defensive earthworks
          > dated from the Hopewell horizon (100BC-400AD). The
          > effigy mounds dated from later Mississippian horizon
          > (600AD-900AD?). However, my recollection on this is
          > not clear.
          >
          > From "Atlas of Ancient America" by Coe, Snow, &
          > Benson:
          > p. 56 Cahokia (Illinois) peak between 1050AD and
          > 1250AD.
          > p. 52 Hopewell (Scioto valley, southern Ohio) mounds
          > built between 100BC and 600AD.
          > p. 51 Serpent Mound (Ohio) either Adena (1100BC-700BC)
          > or Hopewell.
          >
          > One of my earlier posts mentioned "hastily built"
          > forts. Perhaps they were not hastily built, but built
          > by later descendants of the geometric earthworks
          > builders, who had been driven northward, and had
          > different architectural preferences.
          >
          > Paul
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________________________
          > Do You Yahoo!?
          > Find a job, post your resume.
          > http://careers.yahoo.com
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