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Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] amazons

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  • Seppo Tiusanen
    Hi my friend, Sources? I have sources more than 35 pages in my book made during 8 years in Central America, but I will find pretty soon this source to you.
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 10, 2013
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      Hi my friend,

      Sources? I have sources more than 35 pages in my book made during 8 years in Central America, but I will  find pretty soon this source to you.
      How is it possible that people who made Tihuanaco have 31% mtDNA  "other" than mtDNA  A, B,C, D, and X2 from Israel?
      How is it possible that Diaguita tribe of Inca had a chief  called Chalem? Jerusalem was duriing Abraham "URU SHALEM" Uru was a god of daylight and still in the language of Lupaca/Aymara it has a meaning of "day".

      Saludo,
      Seppo

      On 9 June 2013 09:47, iduff Gwinnutt <iduffgwinnutt@...> wrote:
       

       Greetings Seppo!
      Your comment about the " Dna of South American Indians,,etc.." what studies/ and where is the source for this please??
      Duff




      We know enough about DNA of South American Indians
      Tihuanaco was constructed by people who had 31% mtDNA ouside the official Amerindian mtDNA, A, B, C, D, X2?



      Saludos, Seppo



      On 8 June 2013 00:59, mike white <michael.white511@...> wrote:
       
       
      amazons
       
         first, lets discuss the conditions that led to a tribe of female warriors.  then, determine, if the amazons can be seen as unique to a time and place.  traditions can lead to sometimes the death of all of the men in a society.  the males were taught to be brave and bold as soldiers, this was true in greece and scythia.  they all went to war, and came back victorious, or not at all.  mothers told their husbands and sons, to come back carrying their shield, or upon it.  the thoughts and mindset of the women, were much the same as the men.  as seen in the line above. 
         if all of the men of an island or locale, fell in battle, leaving such women, they would unite and organize, for the general welfare and defence.  in time, they might be looked upon as amazons.  this likely happened, over and over, thru long ages, when the same type of battles were taking place, for many thousands of years.  this was certainly true for greece and scythia.  the old name was given the new group of women. 
         lets try to recall the events when egypt was bold enough to invade scythia.  they struck, and maybe looted, and then fled back to egypt.  the scythian warriors [magyar] chased them back to the nile, where the defences prepared by pharaoh, stopped them.  instead of returning to scythia, they loved the luxury they had found, so they stayed in asia, becoming known as the parthians.  very effective, with turning in the saddle, to make great bowshots, upon parting from the enemy, who got careless, thinking that they had routed them. 
         its said, that the women abandoned in scythia, by the parthians, became amazons. 
         there were reports of amazons from the time of the first heracles, thru the time of the trojan war.  the same conditions and mindset, lasted far longer, so we must preclude that amazons could have existed far back in prehistoric times. 
         could amazons have lived along the river, now bearing their name, as recently as 1540 ce?  my first reaction had been highly unlikely, after reading the account of the author of that river adventure.  however, after reviewing what humboldt reported, im left to wonder if it were true.  the turks were putting pressure on greece then, and many men lost their lives.  the conditions were ripe for another tribe of amazons forming.   he found green carved stones, that were associated with the amazon legend. 
         i might question, why the amazons would select to travel as far as south america, when with prowess, they could have carved out a holding somewhere closer to home.  the amazon and orinoco jungles, were and are, dangerous regions, with tribes still using carare poison darts.  they contain very little for an outsider to find to eat.  far easier to be eaten, or have your head shrunk.  this is changing fast today, as settlers slash and burn, deep into the interior.  i had expected that this expansion, would uncover remains of ancient cultures, and cities, like fawcett sought.  so far, no such finds have been reported. 
       
      mike
       
       




    • mike white
      how can researchers be certain that the dna they tested, was from the people who made tihuanaco ? i don t dispute that there were jews in the andes in
      Message 2 of 8 , Jun 10, 2013
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           how can researchers be certain that the dna they tested, was from 'the people who made tihuanaco'?  i don't dispute that there were jews in the andes in prehistoric times. 
         
        mike
         
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 9:02 AM
        Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] amazons

         

        Hi my friend,

        Sources? I have sources more than 35 pages in my book made during 8 years in Central America, but I will  find pretty soon this source to you.
        How is it possible that people who made Tihuanaco have 31% mtDNA  "other" than mtDNA  A, B,C, D, and X2 from Israel?
        How is it possible that Diaguita tribe of Inca had a chief  called Chalem? Jerusalem was duriing Abraham "URU SHALEM" Uru was a god of daylight and still in the language of Lupaca/Aymara it has a meaning of "day".

        Saludo,
        Seppo

        On 9 June 2013 09:47, iduff Gwinnutt <iduffgwinnutt@...> wrote:
         

         Greetings Seppo!
        Your comment about the " Dna of South American Indians,,etc.." what studies/ and where is the source for this please??
        Duff




        We know enough about DNA of South American Indians
        Tihuanaco was constructed by people who had 31% mtDNA ouside the official Amerindian mtDNA, A, B, C, D, X2?



        Saludos, Seppo



        On 8 June 2013 00:59, mike white <michael.white511@...> wrote:
         
         
        amazons
         
           first, lets discuss the conditions that led to a tribe of female warriors.  then, determine, if the amazons can be seen as unique to a time and place.  traditions can lead to sometimes the death of all of the men in a society.  the males were taught to be brave and bold as soldiers, this was true in greece and scythia.  they all went to war, and came back victorious, or not at all.  mothers told their husbands and sons, to come back carrying their shield, or upon it.  the thoughts and mindset of the women, were much the same as the men.  as seen in the line above. 
           if all of the men of an island or locale, fell in battle, leaving such women, they would unite and organize, for the general welfare and defence.  in time, they might be looked upon as amazons.  this likely happened, over and over, thru long ages, when the same type of battles were taking place, for many thousands of years.  this was certainly true for greece and scythia.  the old name was given the new group of women. 
           lets try to recall the events when egypt was bold enough to invade scythia.  they struck, and maybe looted, and then fled back to egypt.  the scythian warriors [magyar] chased them back to the nile, where the defences prepared by pharaoh, stopped them.  instead of returning to scythia, they loved the luxury they had found, so they stayed in asia, becoming known as the parthians.  very effective, with turning in the saddle, to make great bowshots, upon parting from the enemy, who got careless, thinking that they had routed them. 
           its said, that the women abandoned in scythia, by the parthians, became amazons. 
           there were reports of amazons from the time of the first heracles, thru the time of the trojan war.  the same conditions and mindset, lasted far longer, so we must preclude that amazons could have existed far back in prehistoric times. 
           could amazons have lived along the river, now bearing their name, as recently as 1540 ce?  my first reaction had been highly unlikely, after reading the account of the author of that river adventure.  however, after reviewing what humboldt reported, im left to wonder if it were true.  the turks were putting pressure on greece then, and many men lost their lives.  the conditions were ripe for another tribe of amazons forming.   he found green carved stones, that were associated with the amazon legend. 
           i might question, why the amazons would select to travel as far as south america, when with prowess, they could have carved out a holding somewhere closer to home.  the amazon and orinoco jungles, were and are, dangerous regions, with tribes still using carare poison darts.  they contain very little for an outsider to find to eat.  far easier to be eaten, or have your head shrunk.  this is changing fast today, as settlers slash and burn, deep into the interior.  i had expected that this expansion, would uncover remains of ancient cultures, and cities, like fawcett sought.  so far, no such finds have been reported. 
         
        mike
         
         




      • Seppo Tiusanen
        Graves and bones & teeth. For instance Egyin Gol cemetery/Xiongnu grave number 25A is my ancestor. There are many haplotypes especially among Diaguita J1 and
        Message 3 of 8 , Jun 11, 2013
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          Graves and bones & teeth. For instance Egyin Gol cemetery/Xiongnu grave number 25A is my ancestor. There are many haplotypes especially among Diaguita J1 and J2 matching to the Middle East.

          Seppo

          On 10 June 2013 17:44, mike white <michael.white511@...> wrote:
           

           
             how can researchers be certain that the dna they tested, was from 'the people who made tihuanaco'?  i don't dispute that there were jews in the andes in prehistoric times. 
           
          mike
           
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 9:02 AM
          Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] amazons

           

          Hi my friend,

          Sources? I have sources more than 35 pages in my book made during 8 years in Central America, but I will  find pretty soon this source to you.
          How is it possible that people who made Tihuanaco have 31% mtDNA  "other" than mtDNA  A, B,C, D, and X2 from Israel?
          How is it possible that Diaguita tribe of Inca had a chief  called Chalem? Jerusalem was duriing Abraham "URU SHALEM" Uru was a god of daylight and still in the language of Lupaca/Aymara it has a meaning of "day".

          Saludo,
          Seppo

          On 9 June 2013 09:47, iduff Gwinnutt <iduffgwinnutt@...> wrote:
           

           Greetings Seppo!
          Your comment about the " Dna of South American Indians,,etc.." what studies/ and where is the source for this please??
          Duff




          We know enough about DNA of South American Indians
          Tihuanaco was constructed by people who had 31% mtDNA ouside the official Amerindian mtDNA, A, B, C, D, X2?



          Saludos, Seppo



          On 8 June 2013 00:59, mike white <michael.white511@...> wrote:
           
           
          amazons
           
             first, lets discuss the conditions that led to a tribe of female warriors.  then, determine, if the amazons can be seen as unique to a time and place.  traditions can lead to sometimes the death of all of the men in a society.  the males were taught to be brave and bold as soldiers, this was true in greece and scythia.  they all went to war, and came back victorious, or not at all.  mothers told their husbands and sons, to come back carrying their shield, or upon it.  the thoughts and mindset of the women, were much the same as the men.  as seen in the line above. 
             if all of the men of an island or locale, fell in battle, leaving such women, they would unite and organize, for the general welfare and defence.  in time, they might be looked upon as amazons.  this likely happened, over and over, thru long ages, when the same type of battles were taking place, for many thousands of years.  this was certainly true for greece and scythia.  the old name was given the new group of women. 
             lets try to recall the events when egypt was bold enough to invade scythia.  they struck, and maybe looted, and then fled back to egypt.  the scythian warriors [magyar] chased them back to the nile, where the defences prepared by pharaoh, stopped them.  instead of returning to scythia, they loved the luxury they had found, so they stayed in asia, becoming known as the parthians.  very effective, with turning in the saddle, to make great bowshots, upon parting from the enemy, who got careless, thinking that they had routed them. 
             its said, that the women abandoned in scythia, by the parthians, became amazons. 
             there were reports of amazons from the time of the first heracles, thru the time of the trojan war.  the same conditions and mindset, lasted far longer, so we must preclude that amazons could have existed far back in prehistoric times. 
             could amazons have lived along the river, now bearing their name, as recently as 1540 ce?  my first reaction had been highly unlikely, after reading the account of the author of that river adventure.  however, after reviewing what humboldt reported, im left to wonder if it were true.  the turks were putting pressure on greece then, and many men lost their lives.  the conditions were ripe for another tribe of amazons forming.   he found green carved stones, that were associated with the amazon legend. 
             i might question, why the amazons would select to travel as far as south america, when with prowess, they could have carved out a holding somewhere closer to home.  the amazon and orinoco jungles, were and are, dangerous regions, with tribes still using carare poison darts.  they contain very little for an outsider to find to eat.  far easier to be eaten, or have your head shrunk.  this is changing fast today, as settlers slash and burn, deep into the interior.  i had expected that this expansion, would uncover remains of ancient cultures, and cities, like fawcett sought.  so far, no such finds have been reported. 
           
          mike
           
           





        • Seppo Tiusanen
          Here is that 31 %. Volumen 35, Nº 2, 2003. Páginas 269-274 Chungara, Revista de Antropología Chilena ANÁLISIS DE ADNmt DE RESTOS ESQUELETALES DEL SITIO
          Message 4 of 8 , Jun 11, 2013
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            Here is that 31 %.

            Volumen 35, Nº 2, 2003. Páginas 269-274
            Chungara, Revista de Antropología Chilena
            ANÁLISIS DE ADNmt DE RESTOS ESQUELETALES DEL
            SITIO ARQUEOLÓGICO DE TIWANAKU Y SU RELACIÓN
            CON EL ORIGEN DE SUS CONSTRUCTORES
             "La distribución de haplogrupos (A: 8%, B: 15%, C: 23%, D: 23% y otros 31%) relaciona genéticamente a la población estudiada con grupos amazónicos y quechuas actuales."

            http://www.scielo.cl/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0717-73562003000200006&lng=en

            Seppo

            On 11 June 2013 13:49, Seppo Tiusanen <sstiusanen@...> wrote:
            Graves and bones & teeth. For instance Egyin Gol cemetery/Xiongnu grave number 25A is my ancestor. There are many haplotypes especially among Diaguita J1 and J2 matching to the Middle East.

            Seppo


            On 10 June 2013 17:44, mike white <michael.white511@...> wrote:
             

             
               how can researchers be certain that the dna they tested, was from 'the people who made tihuanaco'?  i don't dispute that there were jews in the andes in prehistoric times. 
             
            mike
             
             
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 9:02 AM
            Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] amazons

             

            Hi my friend,

            Sources? I have sources more than 35 pages in my book made during 8 years in Central America, but I will  find pretty soon this source to you.
            How is it possible that people who made Tihuanaco have 31% mtDNA  "other" than mtDNA  A, B,C, D, and X2 from Israel?
            How is it possible that Diaguita tribe of Inca had a chief  called Chalem? Jerusalem was duriing Abraham "URU SHALEM" Uru was a god of daylight and still in the language of Lupaca/Aymara it has a meaning of "day".

            Saludo,
            Seppo

            On 9 June 2013 09:47, iduff Gwinnutt <iduffgwinnutt@...> wrote:
             

             Greetings Seppo!
            Your comment about the " Dna of South American Indians,,etc.." what studies/ and where is the source for this please??
            Duff




            We know enough about DNA of South American Indians
            Tihuanaco was constructed by people who had 31% mtDNA ouside the official Amerindian mtDNA, A, B, C, D, X2?



            Saludos, Seppo



            On 8 June 2013 00:59, mike white <michael.white511@...> wrote:
             
             
            amazons
             
               first, lets discuss the conditions that led to a tribe of female warriors.  then, determine, if the amazons can be seen as unique to a time and place.  traditions can lead to sometimes the death of all of the men in a society.  the males were taught to be brave and bold as soldiers, this was true in greece and scythia.  they all went to war, and came back victorious, or not at all.  mothers told their husbands and sons, to come back carrying their shield, or upon it.  the thoughts and mindset of the women, were much the same as the men.  as seen in the line above. 
               if all of the men of an island or locale, fell in battle, leaving such women, they would unite and organize, for the general welfare and defence.  in time, they might be looked upon as amazons.  this likely happened, over and over, thru long ages, when the same type of battles were taking place, for many thousands of years.  this was certainly true for greece and scythia.  the old name was given the new group of women. 
               lets try to recall the events when egypt was bold enough to invade scythia.  they struck, and maybe looted, and then fled back to egypt.  the scythian warriors [magyar] chased them back to the nile, where the defences prepared by pharaoh, stopped them.  instead of returning to scythia, they loved the luxury they had found, so they stayed in asia, becoming known as the parthians.  very effective, with turning in the saddle, to make great bowshots, upon parting from the enemy, who got careless, thinking that they had routed them. 
               its said, that the women abandoned in scythia, by the parthians, became amazons. 
               there were reports of amazons from the time of the first heracles, thru the time of the trojan war.  the same conditions and mindset, lasted far longer, so we must preclude that amazons could have existed far back in prehistoric times. 
               could amazons have lived along the river, now bearing their name, as recently as 1540 ce?  my first reaction had been highly unlikely, after reading the account of the author of that river adventure.  however, after reviewing what humboldt reported, im left to wonder if it were true.  the turks were putting pressure on greece then, and many men lost their lives.  the conditions were ripe for another tribe of amazons forming.   he found green carved stones, that were associated with the amazon legend. 
               i might question, why the amazons would select to travel as far as south america, when with prowess, they could have carved out a holding somewhere closer to home.  the amazon and orinoco jungles, were and are, dangerous regions, with tribes still using carare poison darts.  they contain very little for an outsider to find to eat.  far easier to be eaten, or have your head shrunk.  this is changing fast today, as settlers slash and burn, deep into the interior.  i had expected that this expansion, would uncover remains of ancient cultures, and cities, like fawcett sought.  so far, no such finds have been reported. 
             
            mike
             
             






          • mike white
            the results of dna studies, often get a wrong interpretation, and invalid conclusions. even if graves and bones & teeth were found, it would be hard to say
            Message 5 of 8 , Jun 11, 2013
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                 the results of dna studies, often get a wrong interpretation, and invalid conclusions. 
                 even if 'graves and bones & teeth' were found, it would be hard to say with certainty, that they date from the founding of tiwanaku.  [in tiwanaku, i use the aymara name] 
                 tiwanaku, by legend, was thrice built, layer over layer.  one would have to dig to bedrock, to be sure.   this region has dozens of feet of sediment deposits, from the wasting away of seawater. 
                 the bones that i was aware of from tiwanaku, are so old, that they turned to fossils.  normally, bones and teeth, turn to dust within 3,000 years. 
                 edgar cayce said the great walls across the mountains, were built 42,000 years ago.  this likely referred to sacsayhuaman.  this was the oldest of the three phases of ancient structures, found in the andes.   tiwanaku may have been rebuilt during each of these eras.  the deeper that is excavated, the larger the stones, and the older.  those cut stones now on the surface, date to the middle and last phase, the last 12,000 years.  the middle phase of architecture, began circa 10,000 bce, and the last phase maybe 3000 bce.  most of the stones at tiwanaku of 1530 ce, have been looted, carried off to be used on railroads, bridges, and buildings from colonial times to present.  that seen today, doesnt even resemble that reported at the conquest.  the museums dont have the statues and monuments that were described.  the best art probably dates from circa 10,000 bce.  most of the works from this era are gone or destroyed.  i bet the conquistadors and clerics, buried much of the best art nearby, so that the royals wouldnt know that the indians had a high culture.  the popular dogma then, was the indians were heathen and savage.  what a find, that would be!  to maintain the lie, the cultured spaniards could not have the better pieces in their homes.  they were rich enough, that they didnt need to sell the statuary.  there may be 60-80 feet of mud over the first tiwanaku.  there are reasons to believe that tiwanaku was first built when the site was nearer sealevel.  much evidence of elevator plate movement, both up and down, is seen today along the coast.  in one event, land falls below the sea, on the next it could be uplifted, higher than before.  this is common over a subduction zone. 
               
              mike
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 3:49 PM
              Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] amazons

               

              Graves and bones & teeth. For instance Egyin Gol cemetery/Xiongnu grave number 25A is my ancestor. There are many haplotypes especially among Diaguita J1 and J2 matching to the Middle East.

              Seppo

              On 10 June 2013 17:44, mike white <michael.white511@...> wrote:
               

               
                 how can researchers be certain that the dna they tested, was from 'the people who made tihuanaco'?  i don't dispute that there were jews in the andes in prehistoric times. 
               
              mike
               
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 9:02 AM
              Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] amazons

               

              Hi my friend,

              Sources? I have sources more than 35 pages in my book made during 8 years in Central America, but I will  find pretty soon this source to you.
              How is it possible that people who made Tihuanaco have 31% mtDNA  "other" than mtDNA  A, B,C, D, and X2 from Israel?
              How is it possible that Diaguita tribe of Inca had a chief  called Chalem? Jerusalem was duriing Abraham "URU SHALEM" Uru was a god of daylight and still in the language of Lupaca/Aymara it has a meaning of "day".

              Saludo,
              Seppo

              On 9 June 2013 09:47, iduff Gwinnutt <iduffgwinnutt@...> wrote:
               

               Greetings Seppo!
              Your comment about the " Dna of South American Indians,,etc.." what studies/ and where is the source for this please??
              Duff




              We know enough about DNA of South American Indians
              Tihuanaco was constructed by people who had 31% mtDNA ouside the official Amerindian mtDNA, A, B, C, D, X2?



              Saludos, Seppo



              On 8 June 2013 00:59, mike white <michael.white511@...> wrote:
               
               
              amazons
               
                 first, lets discuss the conditions that led to a tribe of female warriors.  then, determine, if the amazons can be seen as unique to a time and place.  traditions can lead to sometimes the death of all of the men in a society.  the males were taught to be brave and bold as soldiers, this was true in greece and scythia.  they all went to war, and came back victorious, or not at all.  mothers told their husbands and sons, to come back carrying their shield, or upon it.  the thoughts and mindset of the women, were much the same as the men.  as seen in the line above. 
                 if all of the men of an island or locale, fell in battle, leaving such women, they would unite and organize, for the general welfare and defence.  in time, they might be looked upon as amazons.  this likely happened, over and over, thru long ages, when the same type of battles were taking place, for many thousands of years.  this was certainly true for greece and scythia.  the old name was given the new group of women. 
                 lets try to recall the events when egypt was bold enough to invade scythia.  they struck, and maybe looted, and then fled back to egypt.  the scythian warriors [magyar] chased them back to the nile, where the defences prepared by pharaoh, stopped them.  instead of returning to scythia, they loved the luxury they had found, so they stayed in asia, becoming known as the parthians.  very effective, with turning in the saddle, to make great bowshots, upon parting from the enemy, who got careless, thinking that they had routed them. 
                 its said, that the women abandoned in scythia, by the parthians, became amazons. 
                 there were reports of amazons from the time of the first heracles, thru the time of the trojan war.  the same conditions and mindset, lasted far longer, so we must preclude that amazons could have existed far back in prehistoric times. 
                 could amazons have lived along the river, now bearing their name, as recently as 1540 ce?  my first reaction had been highly unlikely, after reading the account of the author of that river adventure.  however, after reviewing what humboldt reported, im left to wonder if it were true.  the turks were putting pressure on greece then, and many men lost their lives.  the conditions were ripe for another tribe of amazons forming.   he found green carved stones, that were associated with the amazon legend. 
                 i might question, why the amazons would select to travel as far as south america, when with prowess, they could have carved out a holding somewhere closer to home.  the amazon and orinoco jungles, were and are, dangerous regions, with tribes still using carare poison darts.  they contain very little for an outsider to find to eat.  far easier to be eaten, or have your head shrunk.  this is changing fast today, as settlers slash and burn, deep into the interior.  i had expected that this expansion, would uncover remains of ancient cultures, and cities, like fawcett sought.  so far, no such finds have been reported. 
               
              mike
               
               





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