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Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] andes

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  • mike white
    it just dawned on me, that you may mean machu picchu. of course i will be going there. i expect to see more tourists there than natives. its lower than
    Message 1 of 39 , Jul 1, 2012
         it just dawned on me, that you may mean machu picchu.  of course i will be going there.  i expect to see more tourists there than natives.  its lower than cuzco, and i may need to resort to it early on, if i am too affected by the altitude.  the coca tea sounds useful. 
         i plan to allot extra days to seeing parts of ecuador.  cuenca is a very old city.  when the airport was built, many relics of an ancient culture were found. 
         lets pray that the quakes and volcanoes stay under control. 
         if one doesnt mind moderate to simple accomodations, world travel can be affordable.  in some places, if you stay long enough you save money on lower living costs.  come home with a gain.  good hostels can be found, dorm or private.  interesting people can be met in far-away locations.  air fares are tiny on budget airlines, particularly in asia.  what i save allows me to travel longer and more often. 
         the entire andean region has probably been occupied by cultured man for untold ages, tens of thousands easily, with perhaps the oldest sites in the south near the atacama.  i think evidence could be found, showing it was a well-watered jungle, when those people lived there.  our lads will say distant trade accounts for them, again. 
         the winds shift pattern not far below the atacama, bringing much rain on the west winds.  a slight shift of polar axis could cause a big climate change.  chile now gets the benefit. 
         it would require a well outfitted expedition to penetrate the mysteries of the relics in the atacama desert.  an air-conditioned 4wheel vehicle with a local guide might open parts of it.  anything could be found, some relics might dazzle us. 
         atacama tours can be had at san pedro de atacama.  that could be worth the trip.  its near a salt flat.   a museum of padre le paige has malformed skulls and other relics of the ancients and rites.   malformed could refer to an ancient anatomy, an indication of great age.  its pretty clear that these lands were used prior to having been on the seabed, and later uplifted.  there are nazca lines under salt lakes.  im not real fond of desert treks, not with budget travel. 
         wouldnt it be great if the relics in all museums could be viewed on the internet?  it could be the responsibility of each state or province to catalog all of the relics at regional museums.  if private collections were included it would even be better. 
         the andean region was said to be long occupied by lemurians, followed by atlanteans.  structures can be found from each of these ages, from the giants to modern man. 
         i will probably not be able to see everything on my list, im too slow and lazy, but i expect to see many wonderful things, of the antiquities, scenery, and culture.  i will try to copy pics to a pen drive early, just incase the camera or computer drop fail.  then burn the photos to a dvd or a cd-rw disk. 
         surprised that in 2000 the usa dollar became the official currency of ecuador.  it is the most densely populated country of south america. 
         maybe i can bus from piura peru, to macara ecuador, 6 hrs to loja, and 5 hrs onward to cuenca.  bus schedules could cost me much time.  i didnt want to spend too much time on the road.  night travel with a bed seat would be ok.  there are shrunken heads displayed in a cuenca museum.  i didnt expect that at near 7,000 ft.  i looked at a flight from trujillo to cuenca but they had stops at lima and quito, with several layovers longer than the bus trips, with hefty fares.  trujillo to piura by bus 6 hrs, to lima 8 hrs.  i would rather be enroute than waiting in an airport.  picking the right route with the most bus schedules is most important for the trip from trujillo to cuenca, otherwise im stuck overnight in small towns between. 
         huacachina is an oasis resort near ica, that sounds like a better place from which to explore that region.  i will book a night or two there.  it has a pool and a lake. 
         i overheard a ham in finland talking to a hungarian, about how similar are their grammar and word structure. 
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 11:08 AM
      Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] andes


      Re/Mike: ”the leccos are a tribe of rivermen who work along the mapiri river. author said they looked like malays, unrelated racially to the other tribes, always drunk but able while working the river, a strong but gentle people.”

      Please have nice trip to see the Indians in the south, but please take thousands of photos! Lecos has a weekend every day – they drink chicha daily and drunk or “borrachos”.

      They are not genetically malayas, only one haplotype matches Philippines. One haplotype hits STRONGLY to Iceland.

      Anyway we have a lot of tribes from Indonesia and Papua New Guinea – 90 kilometers from my home (Rama).

      If you go up in Peru to Macchu, please take a lot of coca-leaves with tea and please leave the local erotic women in peace (smile)!


      On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 5:57 AM, mike white <michael.white511@...> wrote:

         it may have been my error enrico.  i may have approved the post twice by mistake. 
         i couldnt find the full text on google of 'the rivers flow east'.  so im reading 'across the andes' by c post.  travel there was much more difficult then, crossing the atacama desert by mules to get to the train at san jose. 
         its sad that in 500 years, that so few of the inca irrigation works have been repaired and restored.  nations having so much mineral wealth, have done so little with it.  shame on outsiders who exploit these poor republics, without giving back the needed infrastructure.  better schools are needed.  these are the children of the lemurians and atlanteans, the aymara and quechua. 
         i think i booked more days than i need, so may have extra time to visit other sites.  i will try to find a 4wheel driver in lima for an all day excursion into lesser travelled northern valleys that have rivers.  one legend tells of a valley that when giants entered, was found to have works and tombs of a former race of dwarfs. 
         im convinced that the coastal inca road was an engineering marvel, now unknown.  i will try to verfify that the inca diverted coastal rivers into underground channels that ran alongside the inca road.  this provided water for travellers along the road, and for cultivation of the trees that sheltered the road.  it seems that the inca disrupted the flow when the spaniards arrived.  one primary source described it briefly.  i had to read between the lines.  it was a great idea, and should be restored.  none of the rivers should be allowed to dump into the sea. 
         bolivia should try diplomatic contact with chile to bargain for a seaport.  they could trade mineral rights to a tract elsewhere, specifying that bolivians be employed to work it.   win/win for both.  maybe they can get arica.  it would ease tension between these neighbors.  peru and ecuador could make a similar trade. 
         the author tells of a strange old castle in bolivia, with keep and moat.  the aymara were then hostile on the little used trail near potosi.  they do not like their picture taken. 
         the leccos are a tribe of rivermen who work along the mapiri river.  author said they looked like malays, unrelated racially to the other tribes.  always drunk but able while working the river, a strong but gentle people. 

    • mike white
      first, tiwanaku, the mystics were silent on whether the city was first built at sealevel. the entire altiplano has the look of having been under the sea, then
      Message 39 of 39 , Oct 30, 2012
           first, tiwanaku, the mystics were silent on whether the city was first built at sealevel.  the entire altiplano has the look of having been under the sea, then uplifted.  pillow lava on the side of a volcano, marine sediments, and a line of salt lakes to the south by southwest.  imho, during a severe quake, the land could have fallen below the sea, only to be uplifted two miles into the clouds. 
            it was reported that some of the carved stones had a veneer of limestone.  twenty-two different depictions of toxodons were identified.  this creature, who loved tropical swamps, near sealevel, was found all over tiwanaku, but went extinct over 10,000 years ago.  some of the human bones found were fossilized.  all indicative of great age. 
           some say tiwanaku was once a seaport.  currently, we only can see the ruins of a high temple area, and within a mile or so, the colossal works in a jumble at puma punku. 
           the altiplano, called the puno, is a vast basin, the drain apparently had been at la paz, a deep gulley, having been eroded by floods.  after the submersion, the basin was likely quite full of seawater, but the uplift, not being level, gave enough tilt to drain most of the water away.  the old shelf of the lake is not parallel to the current surface of titicaca.  when the land was seabed, the people terraced the tops of mountains.  the experts admit that the oldest terraces were near the top.  this is opposite to common sense ordinarily. 
           its my opinion, that the altiplano, had been uplifted by a peak wave of magma, that soon subsided, leaving a void under the land.  the rumbles heard during quakes suggests that the vast caverns are full of air, and maybe water.  some volcanoes erupt water with fish in it.  incredibly, the altiplano, could fall rapidly, by thousands of feet, if the air and water escape during an eruption or quake. 
           tiwanaku, could have been an earlier troy, controlling the gate between the east and the west.  canals there can still be identified.  old world contacts with the andes appear to be prior to 3000 bce.  it would seem that earth-changes about that time cut-off the sea trade with the amazon and old world.   the ancient principle sea trade route could have been thru the center of south america, terminating at tiwanaku.   the river platte may have been part of the route.  a river runs mainly north-south at the eastern foot of the andes, connecting with the platte and other rivers running east. 
           darwin confirmed the eastern andes were uplifted last.  that uplift may have raised the altiplano with it, but not near as long ago as most accept.  many cultures to the west exhibit too many tropical jungle relics, for it to have come from distant trade.  their cultivated lands become desert.  these ruins can be found from ica south thru the atacama desert, along dried up riverbeds.  it seems clear that the great geological event occurred during the time of cultured man. 
           like a glass of saltwater, over time the salt settles to the bottom of a basin.  i expect that titicaca gets more saline with greater depth.  the inca could only draw off the water near the surface, to be more fresh for crops, etc.  directing the flow thru sand or limestone would further remove salt. 
           i wonder if the inca had found a way to release water from the uplifted lakes to the coastal dry lands?  we wait for more field surveys to trace the source of aquaducts and channels.  from the remains seen, its certain that those folks were expert on hydraulics, and water management.  most of the old water works have failed from lack of maintenance. 
            the bottom of titicaca likely covers old cities.  these have been seen already.  since the lake is shrinking, the old cities must have been built before the submersion in the sea.  the former surface of the altiplano is now covered by mud and sediments to a great depth in parts.  most of the older structures must be buried under the mud and sediments.  we are merely seeing the tip of the iceberg.  
           i continue to hope that one day bolivia will see the advantages of buildng a gate at tiquina, so that the water level could be lowered in the southern section of titicaca.  they would continue to have a long portion of shoreline.  it may yield lots of land, plus maybe uncover some secrets of its long history.  if done gradually, the impact upon the biosphere would be minimal.  a process may be found to remove the salts, to be sold, and use the water for crops.  [its done in israel.] 
           it should be added, that its easier for the altiplano to drop, than it was to be uplifted.  one day, it could suddenly drop during a quake!  its resting upon fluids, that could move quickly. 
           of course, the text books say otherwise.  let the reader decide. 
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