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Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: velasco

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  • enrico mattievich
    A fragment of stele found in Chavín de Huántar, Peru, by Julio C. Tello, showing part of an engraved Assyrian style god (under his feet it is possible to
    Message 1 of 18 , Jun 17, 2012
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      A fragment of stele found in Chavín de Huántar, Peru, by Julio C. Tello, showing part of an engraved Assyrian style god (under his feet it is possible to distinguish several Greek letters of an inscription) it is similar to some sculptures in the Father Crespi collection, in Ecuador.


      http://phoenicia.org/byblosmart.html   "Could Chavin's Labyrinth be the Remains of the Resounding Palace of Hades and Persephone? [Part 2]"

      Enrico

      2012/6/17 mike white <michael.white511@...>
       

       
      hi stan, all
       
         glad to hear from you again stan.  its disappointing that no library was found.  even without that, the relics that were shown online in the crespi collection, show many fascinating glimpses of former high cultures in ecuador.  its a shame that the collection was broken up and scattered.  many pieces will be lost to us.  
         there are likely lost gold and emerald mines in ecuador.  rivers flowing to the east from it are aurific, but the motherlode is now unknown.  not sure how much mining is now done.  even platinum occurs there. 
         i wonder what products the ancient phoenicians could have traded for gold and emeralds?  they must have been perishable.  lacking products of high enough value to trade may have caused invasions and looting. 
         early accurate maps show wonderful detail of the contour of ice-free antarctica, and upper canada - so the ancient navigators may have known of the route around cape horn and thru the drake passage.  the book by hapgood is worth reading, 'the maps of the ancient sea kings', the title suggests that author may have had a hint they were by the frisians. 
         there were too many mentions of ancient tunnels to be ignored.  maybe lava tubes were meant.  there could be many of these underground in ecuador.  some of these may have been modified and used for storage and caching relics. 
       
      mike
       
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Stan
      Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 10:25 AM
      Subject: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: velasco

       

      Sorry Lads,

      When it comes to metallic libraries in Ecuador, so far, Petronio Jaramillo made it all up well before Juan Moricz appeared on the scene in the 1960's. Then came along the greatest liar of them all, Erich Von Daniken, to spread the falsehoods in his book, Gold of the Gods. I listened to Juan Moricz rant and rave about his hatred of Erich for many hours in the early 1980's.

      I've interviewed all of the players in this story for the last 25 years. Did you know there was a professional Japanese Tayos expedition in the 90's? They penetrated 15 kilometers into the cave!

      I've been in the main Tayos Cave, and also in Stanley Hall's Tayos Cave on the Pastaza River (Tayos Gold). I have it all on video. I know all of the Shuar Natives who live near both caves. I have questioned them extensively.

      As much as I would love the "metallic library" story to be true, it simply is not. That said, I do agree with Mike about the ancient and largely unknown history of Ecuador. There is still much to be discovered here.

      Two months ago, we conducted an expedition into an area just north of Cajas National Park on private property. It took 8 hours to arrive on horseback. We were escorted to this archaeological site by the property owner. It turned out to be a very large and remote "lost city" (one of the first phases of the Canari culture). The site is approximately 5 times larger than Ingapirca. There were five caves on this property. Each cave contained abundant quantities of ceramic archaeological material.

      These lost and remote sites are out there and I will continue to investigate each and every one that comes to my attention. Like most of you, I seek to understand the great ancient mysteries of South America.

      Stan Grist
      www.Adventure-Trader.com

      --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <mirageinspectorjay@...> wrote:
      >
      > metal libraries? I assume that would require some tin from the Bolivian tin mines I've never found to much history of in the english language. Although I must admit time has always been an illusive factor for me dispite the fact that the Welsh symbol for 100 is basically the same as the Yuchi and other societies I dont care to mention except for the early Merovingian tradition who used metal rings to light fires. The eariler method of the nodfyr "fire of necessity" seems to be a method assumed to have come from them although I think it may predate the Roman calendar in former times when a week was reconized before the later idea at the end of antiquity.
      >
      > To a degree the customary 100 braids platted for the maternal line among the Inca is more interesting in the light that Wales wasn't obtained by war but rather birthright. That seems to basically be the bottom line for the "Prince" Madoc incentive from the mindspring of An Essay on the Druids, the Ancient Churches and the Round Towers of Ireland pub.1871 by the Welsh publication society which may provide some overlooked data. pdf also available, public domain "out of copyright" edition & also povided by google books.
      >
      > As far as simular claims that may be inaccurate or accurate regarding the Inca as far as I know are the british israelites so it may be worth wide to consider Mormon traditions & archaeology as well as take note of Brit Am and atavistic languages related Aramaic and Arabic projects espically now that some are complete or near completion.
      >
      > be well,
      > jay
      >
      > --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com, "mike white" <michael.white511@> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > again, i invite and implore a member able to read spanish, to give the group an informal review of the work of velasco on ecuador. its my opinion that ecuador may have a history going back up to 26,000 bce. almost nothing is known of it, yet, it being last conquered by the inca, there is a possibility that more of its ancient high culture and history may still be preserved, if interest is revived. there is no copyright to worry about, so interesting sections could be quoted verbatim.
      > > the location of ancient palaces, cities, and archives are of special interest, as well as references to ophir. pottery and relics of the highest quality have been found in ecuador. the collection of the late padre crespi was incredible that he had warehoused at cuenca. one stone had archaic square hebrew script, that was precolumbian.
      > > the tales of lost tunnels and metal libraries have the ring of truth.
      > >
      > > mike
      > >
      >


    • mike white
      hi seppo, all im pleased that you enjoy the group. we welcome input and comment. the frisian book over the linda suggests that the magyar occupied finland
      Message 2 of 18 , Jun 17, 2012
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        hi seppo, all
         
           im pleased that you enjoy the group.  we welcome input and comment. 
           the frisian book 'over the linda' suggests that the magyar occupied finland and sweden from an early date, that i reckon circa 10,000 bce.  so your language and culture may have a magyar influence.  i believe magyar and scythian are the same people.  let us know your thoughts on this.  magyar inscriptions were found on rocks along the coasts.  runes began with the magyar, long before they were called vikings. 
           for one reason or another, my tour of the andes antiquities has been delayed.  if time allows after peru and bolivia, i will try to get to cuenca, to see what remains of the crespi collection.  i hope the large tombstone with hebrew is still on display.  its weight may have spared it from looters.  i want to get some close-up photos, in order to compare the characters to modern hebrew, and to that found on the decalog stone of ohio.  i bet the two are near the same, but archaic to modern square script.  i contacted hebrew university, but got no reply.  they failed to see the significance of their script being much older than thought. 
           if the phoenician colony in brazil is associated with king hiram of tyre, that i date to 5,000 bce, it may represent the last contact between phoenicia and ophir.  the mideast was in turmoil circa 3000 bce, the first diaspora of the jews.  a near global disaster had occurred, causing invasions and migrations.  israel fell on hard times soon after solomon.  two thousand years of jewish history were lost, began again about 1000 bce.  the stone in ecuador likely dates before 5000 bce. that of ohio 3000 bce. 
           the most wonderful finds of our generation were ignored or denied!  our lads are more comfortable with fallacy.  they think learning should stop, when they leave college.  those who have retired, should feel free to be more open with their opinions.   can they not know of the ica stones, and crespi collection, the acambaro figurines, fuente magna and cabeza, and the cemetery of the giants in ohio.  its unscientific to ignore anomalies.  with study, the number of these anomalies keeps increasing.  so many careers were wasted, with future ridicule likely. 
         
        mike
         
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 10:11 PM
        Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: velasco

         

        Dear Mike,

        I highly appreciate you and you excellent forum - congratulations to you from the bottom of my heart. I am a Finn living among the Amerind during 23 years. Anyway I have been working with the Hungarians for many, many years. I have collected and searched Hugarian cognates in Ecuador and found zero cognates, because I do not speak Hungarian but Estonian.
        Yesterday I have finished a book of about 500 pages about this emphasizing common cognates and ESPECIALLY autosomal STR DNA of CODIS used by FBI and international Police. There were Scythians, Finns, Estonians, Hungarians  and many, many more...even Etruscans and people from Mesopotamia, Persia, Caucasus, INDIA etc.

        We should concentrate especially to the mystery of Lapita!

        You asked before, if somebody knows Spanish. I do it because it is the language at home and if necessary, I wanna help you. Let us investigate it once more with DNA! The Finns are so "isolated" that they must speak at least 4-10 languages.

        Especially in this case I must say that the history is the most an antique lie!

        Saludo cordial,
        Seppo

        On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 5:35 PM, mike white <michael.white511@...> wrote:
         

        

         
           its not my field, i merely cited what moricz reported.  i welcome others more qualified to look deeper, particularly at the names given features of the terrain.  read the legend of the ayar brothers. 
           seppo, are you hungarian? 
         
        mike
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 6:28 PM
        Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: velasco

         

        Hi Mike,
        Can you publish these cognates, please?
        I have a collection of common cognates of 96 pages mainly from the following sources:

        Bertonio Ludovico: Vocabvlario de la Lengva Aymara, Transcriptión del texto original 1612, Juli, Chuquito, Impreso y hecho en Arequipa, Peru,

        ISBN 9972-9706-1-4


        Holguin Diego Gonçales:

        Vocabvlario de la Lengva General de todo el Perv llamada Lengua Qquichua, o del Inca.

        Titulo original: Vocabulario de la Lengva General de todo el Perv llamada

        Lengva Qquichua o del Inca. Lima, Imprenta de Francisco del Canto, 1608.


        Investigations of Finnish Professor Panu Hakola:

        -Are the Major Agglunative Languages Genetically Related?

        Published in Language Sciences, Volume 11, Number 4, pp 367 - 394, 1989 in Great Britain

        - Suomen kielen etäiset sukulaiset

        - Hakola Panu, professor: http://www.suomalaisuudenliitto.fi/vanhatsivut/hakola.htm

        - Hakola Panu, professor: http://www.suomalaisuudenliitto.fi/vanhatsivut/hakola2.htm


        Dr. Mary Sargsyan: 15,000 Years Ago Armenian Language’s Trace In Latin America, 2004,Yerevan, Armenia - Similarity searching between Armenian and Aymara Languages


        Dr. Mary M. Herouni-Sargsyan:

        The Language is a nation’s historical memory attestor,

        published in original Armenian in 3rd volume of “Life-long Learning” magazine, 2008


        SHIMIKUNATA ASIRTACHIK KILLKA

        Inka-Kastellanu DICCIONARIO, (Quechua del Pastaza)

        Lima, Perú 2002


        QHESWA - ESPAÑOL - QHESWA

        SIMI TAQE

        Segunda edición, GOBIERNO REGIONAL CUSCO

        Cusco, Perú, 2005


        Glossary of Terminology of the Shamanic & Ceremonial Traditions of the Inca Medicine Lineage

        http://www.incaglossary.org/p.html


        Igor Garshin Konstantinovich webpages:

        http://garshin.ru/personal/my-works.html


        Fournet, Arnaud

        TOCHARIAN LOANWORDS IN MOKSHA-MORDVIN (PDF)


        Korpilinna Esko, Itkevät jumalat 3-osainen artikkelisarja APU-lehdessä:

        1. Muinaiset suomalaiset Etelä-Amerikan valloittajina

        2. Kalevalan ja Inkain kulttuuri ovat samaa juurta

        3. Väinämöinenkö ensimmäinen Inka?


        Ruhlen Merritt, Joseph H. Greenberg,

        1. An Amerind etymological dictionary

        Department of Anthropological Sciences, Stanford University, 2007

        2. Amerind MALIQ’A ‘Swallow, Throat’ and Its Origin in the Old World, pp. 24251.

        3. Global Etymologies” (with John Bengtson), pp. 277336.


        Fray Domingo de Santo Tomás O.P:

        Grammatica o arte de la lengua general de los indios de los reynos del Peru

        Valladolid, España,1560


        Fray Domingo de Santo Tomás O.P:

        Lexicón o Vocabulario de la lengua general del PERV.

        Valladolid, España,1560


        Comité de Educación Inga de la Organización:

        Musu Runakuna”,

        DICCIONARIO INGA,

        (edición interina en el nuevo alfabeto),

        (borrador de septiembre de 1997)



        Ajacopa Teofilo Laime, Efraín Cazazola, Félix Layme Pairumani:

        Diccionario Bilingűe: Iskay simipi yuyayk'ancha

        La Paz – Bolivia Enero, 2007


        Awank’ay Blanco:

        Runasimipi-Sutikuna

        PDF



        Ellis Robert:

        Peruvia Scythica: The Quichua Language of Peru

        isbn 1437215114, (isbn13: 9781437215113)

        First published 1875


        Bolivia, Ministerio de Educación:

        ARUSIMIÑEE

        Castellano, Aymara, Guaraní, Qhichwa


        Bouda, Karl:

        Tungusisch und Ketschua

        Zeitschrift der Deutschen Morgenländische Gesellschaft

        1960


        Callisaya Gregorio et al:

        Glosario de Nuevos Términos Aimaras

        Universidad Mayor de San Andres, La Paz, Bolivia


        Camacho Gutiérrez Leoncio, Leonidas Mantilla Gutierrez, Shara Huaman Jullunila:

        Apurimaqpaq Runasimi Taqe - Diccionario de Quechua Apurimeño

        Academia Mayor de la Lengua Quechua filial Apurímac

        Abancay, Perú Feb. 2007


        Camacho Gutiérrez Leoncio:

        Apurimakpa Runasimin: El Habla de Apurímac

        Academia de la Lengua Quechua filial Apurímac


        Cerrón-Palomino Rodolfo

        El cantar de Inca Yupanqui y la lengua secreta de los incas

        Apartado Postal No. 210035

        Lima 21, PERU


        Chueca José Gabriel:

        Cerrón-Palomino Rodolfo:“Lengua oficial de los incas fue el aimara; luego, el quechua”

        Sociedad, Vie. 12 sep 2008


        Civallero Edgardo:

        Glosario de lenguas indígenas sudamericanas

        Universidad Nacional de Córdoba – Argentina


        Gobierno Regional Cusco, Academia Mayor de la Lengua Quechua:

        Qheswa Simi Hamut'ana Kurak Suntur: Qheswa -Español – Qheswa, Simi Taque

        Cusco Perú 2005


        Laime Ajacopa, Teofilo:

        DICCIONARIO BILINGÜE: Iskay simipi yuyayk'ancha

        La Paz - Bolivia

        Enero, 2007


        Navarro, Fr. Manuel:

        Vocabulario Castellano-Quechua-Pano con sus respectivas gramáticas Quechua y Pana

        1903, Peru Lima, Imprenta del Estado


        Palavecino, Enrique:

        Elementos lingüísticos de Oceanía en el Quechua

        Buenos Aires, 1926


        Rajki András:

        English – Quechua – Aymara Word List

        A slightly extended Swadesh list

        2005


        Rumiñawi (Instituto Qheshwa Jujuymanta), S. S. de Jujuy:

        RELACIONES ENTRE LENGUAS AMERINDIAS Y EXTRA-CONTINENTALES: Quechua y arameo

        ETC.

        In order to see the roots (typology) of Quechua of Imbabura and other languages you shoud read both:

        Greenhill S.J, Q.D. Atkinson, A. Meade, R.D. Gray:

        The shape and tempo of language evolution


        Wichmann Søren, Eric W. Holman:

        Comparing Macro-Altaic and Native American languages: What Can WALS Tell Us?

        (Presentation at a meeting on Altaic and Native American languages, Seoul, Oct. 28, 2006)

        Søren Wichmann, Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology & Leiden University in collaboration with Eric W. Holman, University of California, Los Angeles

        Greetings, Seppo





        On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 3:11 PM, mike white <michael.white511@...> wrote:
         

         
           i don't see the motive that would inspire such a fraud.  its written that
        Juan Moricz filed a claim for ownership of the land that has the entry to the tunnel system.  if all is a hoax, why would he do that?  has anyone examined the records to see where the boundaries of that claim lie?  no doubt but the entry was concealed. 
           moricz seemed to be accurate on finding many local words having magyar roots. 
           much could be added to our knowledge of history, if experts on ancient magyar and the assyrian language would show some interest. 
         
        mike    
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 10:27 AM
        Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: velasco

         

        Hi Stan and everybody,

        From the very beginning I knew that Juan Moricz was inventing the book daily with his wife - FALSE alarm! He was crazy - el era loco! If there is Erich von Däniken and an astronaut, it must be a heavy FRAUD like colonel James Irwin, the Apollo 15 astronaut in Exodus interpretations. I have seen all this mess when living 2 years in Sinai and even meeting them.

        Let us return via Sumer, Babylon and ancient India to Bolivia and Pokotia once again with DNA and pagan Gods. True or false? During ten years absolutely false to me but now in reality ABSOLUTELY TRUE.


        Saludo cordial,
        Seppo

        On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 3:32 AM, mike white <michael.white511@...> wrote:
         

         
        hi stan, all
         
           glad to hear from you again stan.  its disappointing that no library was found.  even without that, the relics that were shown online in the crespi collection, show many fascinating glimpses of former high cultures in ecuador.  its a shame that the collection was broken up and scattered.  many pieces will be lost to us.  
           there are likely lost gold and emerald mines in ecuador.  rivers flowing to the east from it are aurific, but the motherlode is now unknown.  not sure how much mining is now done.  even platinum occurs there. 
           i wonder what products the ancient phoenicians could have traded for gold and emeralds?  they must have been perishable.  lacking products of high enough value to trade may have caused invasions and looting. 
           early accurate maps show wonderful detail of the contour of ice-free antarctica, and upper canada - so the ancient navigators may have known of the route around cape horn and thru the drake passage.  the book by hapgood is worth reading, 'the maps of the ancient sea kings', the title suggests that author may have had a hint they were by the frisians. 
           there were too many mentions of ancient tunnels to be ignored.  maybe lava tubes were meant.  there could be many of these underground in ecuador.  some of these may have been modified and used for storage and caching relics. 
         
        mike
         
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Stan
        Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 10:25 AM
        Subject: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: velasco

         

        Sorry Lads,

        When it comes to metallic libraries in Ecuador, so far, Petronio Jaramillo made it all up well before Juan Moricz appeared on the scene in the 1960's. Then came along the greatest liar of them all, Erich Von Daniken, to spread the falsehoods in his book, Gold of the Gods. I listened to Juan Moricz rant and rave about his hatred of Erich for many hours in the early 1980's.

        I've interviewed all of the players in this story for the last 25 years. Did you know there was a professional Japanese Tayos expedition in the 90's? They penetrated 15 kilometers into the cave!

        I've been in the main Tayos Cave, and also in Stanley Hall's Tayos Cave on the Pastaza River (Tayos Gold). I have it all on video. I know all of the Shuar Natives who live near both caves. I have questioned them extensively.

        As much as I would love the "metallic library" story to be true, it simply is not. That said, I do agree with Mike about the ancient and largely unknown history of Ecuador. There is still much to be discovered here.

        Two months ago, we conducted an expedition into an area just north of Cajas National Park on private property. It took 8 hours to arrive on horseback. We were escorted to this archaeological site by the property owner. It turned out to be a very large and remote "lost city" (one of the first phases of the Canari culture). The site is approximately 5 times larger than Ingapirca. There were five caves on this property. Each cave contained abundant quantities of ceramic archaeological material.

        These lost and remote sites are out there and I will continue to investigate each and every one that comes to my attention. Like most of you, I seek to understand the great ancient mysteries of South America.

        Stan Grist
        www.Adventure-Trader.com

        --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <mirageinspectorjay@...> wrote:
        >
        > metal libraries? I assume that would require some tin from the Bolivian tin mines I've never found to much history of in the english language. Although I must admit time has always been an illusive factor for me dispite the fact that the Welsh symbol for 100 is basically the same as the Yuchi and other societies I dont care to mention except for the early Merovingian tradition who used metal rings to light fires. The eariler method of the nodfyr "fire of necessity" seems to be a method assumed to have come from them although I think it may predate the Roman calendar in former times when a week was reconized before the later idea at the end of antiquity.
        >
        > To a degree the customary 100 braids platted for the maternal line among the Inca is more interesting in the light that Wales wasn't obtained by war but rather birthright. That seems to basically be the bottom line for the "Prince" Madoc incentive from the mindspring of An Essay on the Druids, the Ancient Churches and the Round Towers of Ireland pub.1871 by the Welsh publication society which may provide some overlooked data. pdf also available, public domain "out of copyright" edition & also povided by google books.
        >
        > As far as simular claims that may be inaccurate or accurate regarding the Inca as far as I know are the british israelites so it may be worth wide to consider Mormon traditions & archaeology as well as take note of Brit Am and atavistic languages related Aramaic and Arabic projects espically now that some are complete or near completion.
        >
        > be well,
        > jay
        >
        > --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com, "mike white" <michael.white511@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > again, i invite and implore a member able to read spanish, to give the group an informal review of the work of velasco on ecuador. its my opinion that ecuador may have a history going back up to 26,000 bce. almost nothing is known of it, yet, it being last conquered by the inca, there is a possibility that more of its ancient high culture and history may still be preserved, if interest is revived. there is no copyright to worry about, so interesting sections could be quoted verbatim.
        > > the location of ancient palaces, cities, and archives are of special interest, as well as references to ophir. pottery and relics of the highest quality have been found in ecuador. the collection of the late padre crespi was incredible that he had warehoused at cuenca. one stone had archaic square hebrew script, that was precolumbian.
        > > the tales of lost tunnels and metal libraries have the ring of truth.
        > >
        > > mike
        > >
        >




      • Stan
        Hi Mike, all, The Crespi metallic relics are still an enigma. Nobody knows where they are now. They appear to be lost to the public. I will continue to try to
        Message 3 of 18 , Jun 18, 2012
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          Hi Mike, all,

          The Crespi metallic relics are still an enigma. Nobody knows where they are now. They appear to be lost to the public. I will continue to try to track them down well into the future.

          The ceramic part of the collection is still in tact in the basement of the Banco Central museum in Cuenca. It is possible to arrange a private viewing of the Crespi ceramic collection. I would be pleased to organize this visit for Mike or any others in the group who come to Cuenca as I am now living here.

          I have been studying the ancient and lost gold and emerald mines in Ecuador for about 25 years. I have located many of the sites. I have discovered the exact locations of the so-called lost cities of El Dorado which all date to pre-Inca times. Since the 1500's they are known as Sevilla de Oro, Logrono, Nambija, Bilbao, Old Zamora, Santiago de las Montanas, Borja and Jaen de Bracamoras. These locations are mentioned in "The Rivers Ran East" by Leonard Clark (can be found in Google books).

          Gold mining is very active in most of these areas today. I can pan at least one gram of gold per hour in any one of these locations; in some places, much more. Even with all of the mining that has taken place over thousands of years, the surface has still not yet been scratched. The gold is more abundant than even I can believe.

          I am also in possession of 2 emeralds (authenticated by the GIA) that came from a river in the northern jungles of Ecuador. These emeralds were obtained from some Cofanes Natives in the 1960's. The old emerald mine is located in their territory. I am still hoping to organize an expedition into this area with the blessing and assistance of today's Cofane chief.

          In my next post, I will share a story of an ancient tunnel that was discovered near Banos in the 1920s. The entrance to the tunnel is through a lava tube cave. The evidence I have is overwhelming that the story is true. I have been in the cave but could not reach the tunnel do to a blockage. With some effort, the cave could be cleared. The owners are good friends and want to sell the property.

          Meanwhile, I have written a small book entitled "How and Where to Find Gold in Ecuador". I would be pleased to send a complimentary copy to anyone in this group. Just send me an email and I will attach it to the return.

          Warm Regards, Stan




          --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com, "mike white" <michael.white511@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > hi stan, all
          >
          > glad to hear from you again stan. its disappointing that no library was found. even without that, the relics that were shown online in the crespi collection, show many fascinating glimpses of former high cultures in ecuador. its a shame that the collection was broken up and scattered. many pieces will be lost to us.
          > there are likely lost gold and emerald mines in ecuador. rivers flowing to the east from it are aurific, but the motherlode is now unknown. not sure how much mining is now done. even platinum occurs there.
          > i wonder what products the ancient phoenicians could have traded for gold and emeralds? they must have been perishable. lacking products of high enough value to trade may have caused invasions and looting.
          > early accurate maps show wonderful detail of the contour of ice-free antarctica, and upper canada - so the ancient navigators may have known of the route around cape horn and thru the drake passage. the book by hapgood is worth reading, 'the maps of the ancient sea kings', the title suggests that author may have had a hint they were by the frisians.
          > there were too many mentions of ancient tunnels to be ignored. maybe lava tubes were meant. there could be many of these underground in ecuador. some of these may have been modified and used for storage and caching relics.
          >
          > mike
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Stan
          > To: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 10:25 AM
          > Subject: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: velasco
          >
          >
          >
          > Sorry Lads,
          >
          > When it comes to metallic libraries in Ecuador, so far, Petronio Jaramillo made it all up well before Juan Moricz appeared on the scene in the 1960's. Then came along the greatest liar of them all, Erich Von Daniken, to spread the falsehoods in his book, Gold of the Gods. I listened to Juan Moricz rant and rave about his hatred of Erich for many hours in the early 1980's.
          >
          > I've interviewed all of the players in this story for the last 25 years. Did you know there was a professional Japanese Tayos expedition in the 90's? They penetrated 15 kilometers into the cave!
          >
          > I've been in the main Tayos Cave, and also in Stanley Hall's Tayos Cave on the Pastaza River (Tayos Gold). I have it all on video. I know all of the Shuar Natives who live near both caves. I have questioned them extensively.
          >
          > As much as I would love the "metallic library" story to be true, it simply is not. That said, I do agree with Mike about the ancient and largely unknown history of Ecuador. There is still much to be discovered here.
          >
          > Two months ago, we conducted an expedition into an area just north of Cajas National Park on private property. It took 8 hours to arrive on horseback. We were escorted to this archaeological site by the property owner. It turned out to be a very large and remote "lost city" (one of the first phases of the Canari culture). The site is approximately 5 times larger than Ingapirca. There were five caves on this property. Each cave contained abundant quantities of ceramic archaeological material.
          >
          > These lost and remote sites are out there and I will continue to investigate each and every one that comes to my attention. Like most of you, I seek to understand the great ancient mysteries of South America.
          >
          > Stan Grist
          > www.Adventure-Trader.com
          >
          > --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <mirageinspectorjay@> wrote:
          > >
          > > metal libraries? I assume that would require some tin from the Bolivian tin mines I've never found to much history of in the english language. Although I must admit time has always been an illusive factor for me dispite the fact that the Welsh symbol for 100 is basically the same as the Yuchi and other societies I dont care to mention except for the early Merovingian tradition who used metal rings to light fires. The eariler method of the nodfyr "fire of necessity" seems to be a method assumed to have come from them although I think it may predate the Roman calendar in former times when a week was reconized before the later idea at the end of antiquity.
          > >
          > > To a degree the customary 100 braids platted for the maternal line among the Inca is more interesting in the light that Wales wasn't obtained by war but rather birthright. That seems to basically be the bottom line for the "Prince" Madoc incentive from the mindspring of An Essay on the Druids, the Ancient Churches and the Round Towers of Ireland pub.1871 by the Welsh publication society which may provide some overlooked data. pdf also available, public domain "out of copyright" edition & also povided by google books.
          > >
          > > As far as simular claims that may be inaccurate or accurate regarding the Inca as far as I know are the british israelites so it may be worth wide to consider Mormon traditions & archaeology as well as take note of Brit Am and atavistic languages related Aramaic and Arabic projects espically now that some are complete or near completion.
          > >
          > > be well,
          > > jay
          > >
          > > --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com, "mike white" <michael.white511@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > again, i invite and implore a member able to read spanish, to give the group an informal review of the work of velasco on ecuador. its my opinion that ecuador may have a history going back up to 26,000 bce. almost nothing is known of it, yet, it being last conquered by the inca, there is a possibility that more of its ancient high culture and history may still be preserved, if interest is revived. there is no copyright to worry about, so interesting sections could be quoted verbatim.
          > > > the location of ancient palaces, cities, and archives are of special interest, as well as references to ophir. pottery and relics of the highest quality have been found in ecuador. the collection of the late padre crespi was incredible that he had warehoused at cuenca. one stone had archaic square hebrew script, that was precolumbian.
          > > > the tales of lost tunnels and metal libraries have the ring of truth.
          > > >
          > > > mike
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • Stan
          Hi All, Actually, it was Petronio Jaramillo who originally invented an adventure novel about the Tayos Cave with his first wife. I video taped a 2-hour
          Message 4 of 18 , Jun 18, 2012
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            Hi All,

            Actually, it was Petronio Jaramillo who originally invented an adventure novel about the Tayos Cave with his first wife. I video taped a 2-hour interview with her where she went into great detail for me about how the novel was conceived and written. Petronio did the talking and she did the writing.

            Somehow, when Petronio was introduced to Juan Moricz (late 60's), the novel then became a reality story. Stan Hall dealt directly with this topic in his book, "Tayos Gold". From this point, with all that I have investigated over 25 years, Juan Moricz turned the fantasy story into a declaration that HE had actually and literally discovered the cave with Petronio's fictitious metallic library and all. It greatly pains me to think that Juan lied about this "ancient tunnel" story, but I have never been able to arrive at any other conclusion, as hard as I have tried.

            Juan Moricz was an amazing investigator and uncovered pieces of history that are invaluable. Too bad he did not share more of his discoveries with the world. His assistant of 15 years, Zoltan Czellar, became like a second father to me after Juan's passing. I have great respect for what those guys were able to do in their time together. More to come later...

            However, it was Erich von Daniken who really took the cake after this. He was the only one who made some serious cash from this fantasy story. His book was one of the main reasons I came to live in Ecuador many years ago.

            With all this said, let us continue to investigate with passion and integrity. I am sure that there are extremely important things to discover that will help to tell the truth of South America'a ancient history.




            --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com, Seppo Tiusanen <sstiusanen@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Stan and everybody,
            >
            > From the very beginning I knew that Juan Moricz was inventing the book
            > daily with his wife - FALSE alarm! He was crazy - el era loco! If there is
            > Erich von Däniken and an astronaut, it must be a heavy FRAUD like colonel
            > James Irwin, the Apollo 15 astronaut in Exodus interpretations. I have seen
            > all this mess when living 2 years in Sinai and even meeting them.
            >
            > Let us return via Sumer, Babylon and ancient India to Bolivia and Pokotia
            > once again with DNA and pagan Gods. True or false? During ten years
            > absolutely false to me but now in reality ABSOLUTELY TRUE.
            >
            > Saludo cordial,
            > Seppo
            >
            > On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 3:32 AM, mike white
            > <michael.white511@...>wrote:
            >
            > > **
            > >
            > >
            > > **
            > >
            > > hi stan, all
            > >
            > > glad to hear from you again stan. its disappointing that no library
            > > was found. even without that, the relics that were shown online in the
            > > crespi collection, show many fascinating glimpses of former high cultures
            > > in ecuador. its a shame that the collection was broken up and scattered.
            > > many pieces will be lost to us.
            > > there are likely lost gold and emerald mines in ecuador. rivers
            > > flowing to the east from it are aurific, but the motherlode is now
            > > unknown. not sure how much mining is now done. even platinum occurs
            > > there.
            > > i wonder what products the ancient phoenicians could have traded for
            > > gold and emeralds? they must have been perishable. lacking products of
            > > high enough value to trade may have caused invasions and looting.
            > > early accurate maps show wonderful detail of the contour of ice-free
            > > antarctica, and upper canada - so the ancient navigators may have known of
            > > the route around cape horn and thru the drake passage. the book by hapgood
            > > is worth reading, 'the maps of the ancient sea kings', the title suggests
            > > that author may have had a hint they were by the frisians.
            > > there were too many mentions of ancient tunnels to be ignored. maybe
            > > lava tubes were meant. there could be many of these underground in
            > > ecuador. some of these may have been modified and used for storage and
            > > caching relics.
            > >
            > > mike
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > *From:* Stan <sdgrist@...>
            > > *To:* Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com
            > > *Sent:* Saturday, June 16, 2012 10:25 AM
            > > *Subject:* [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: velasco
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Sorry Lads,
            > >
            > > When it comes to metallic libraries in Ecuador, so far, Petronio Jaramillo
            > > made it all up well before Juan Moricz appeared on the scene in the 1960's.
            > > Then came along the greatest liar of them all, Erich Von Daniken, to spread
            > > the falsehoods in his book, Gold of the Gods. I listened to Juan Moricz
            > > rant and rave about his hatred of Erich for many hours in the early 1980's.
            > >
            > > I've interviewed all of the players in this story for the last 25 years.
            > > Did you know there was a professional Japanese Tayos expedition in the
            > > 90's? They penetrated 15 kilometers into the cave!
            > >
            > > I've been in the main Tayos Cave, and also in Stanley Hall's Tayos Cave on
            > > the Pastaza River (Tayos Gold). I have it all on video. I know all of the
            > > Shuar Natives who live near both caves. I have questioned them extensively.
            > >
            > > As much as I would love the "metallic library" story to be true, it simply
            > > is not. That said, I do agree with Mike about the ancient and largely
            > > unknown history of Ecuador. There is still much to be discovered here.
            > >
            > > Two months ago, we conducted an expedition into an area just north of
            > > Cajas National Park on private property. It took 8 hours to arrive on
            > > horseback. We were escorted to this archaeological site by the property
            > > owner. It turned out to be a very large and remote "lost city" (one of the
            > > first phases of the Canari culture). The site is approximately 5 times
            > > larger than Ingapirca. There were five caves on this property. Each cave
            > > contained abundant quantities of ceramic archaeological material.
            > >
            > > These lost and remote sites are out there and I will continue to
            > > investigate each and every one that comes to my attention. Like most of
            > > you, I seek to understand the great ancient mysteries of South America.
            > >
            > > Stan Grist
            > > www.Adventure-Trader.com
            > >
            > > --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr"
            > > <mirageinspectorjay@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > metal libraries? I assume that would require some tin from the Bolivian
            > > tin mines I've never found to much history of in the english language.
            > > Although I must admit time has always been an illusive factor for me
            > > dispite the fact that the Welsh symbol for 100 is basically the same as the
            > > Yuchi and other societies I dont care to mention except for the early
            > > Merovingian tradition who used metal rings to light fires. The eariler
            > > method of the nodfyr "fire of necessity" seems to be a method assumed to
            > > have come from them although I think it may predate the Roman calendar in
            > > former times when a week was reconized before the later idea at the end of
            > > antiquity.
            > > >
            > > > To a degree the customary 100 braids platted for the maternal line among
            > > the Inca is more interesting in the light that Wales wasn't obtained by war
            > > but rather birthright. That seems to basically be the bottom line for the
            > > "Prince" Madoc incentive from the mindspring of An Essay on the Druids, the
            > > Ancient Churches and the Round Towers of Ireland pub.1871 by the Welsh
            > > publication society which may provide some overlooked data. pdf also
            > > available, public domain "out of copyright" edition & also povided by
            > > google books.
            > > >
            > > > As far as simular claims that may be inaccurate or accurate regarding
            > > the Inca as far as I know are the british israelites so it may be worth
            > > wide to consider Mormon traditions & archaeology as well as take note of
            > > Brit Am and atavistic languages related Aramaic and Arabic projects
            > > espically now that some are complete or near completion.
            > > >
            > > > be well,
            > > > jay
            > > >
            > > > --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com, "mike white"
            > > <michael.white511@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > again, i invite and implore a member able to read spanish, to give the
            > > group an informal review of the work of velasco on ecuador. its my opinion
            > > that ecuador may have a history going back up to 26,000 bce. almost nothing
            > > is known of it, yet, it being last conquered by the inca, there is a
            > > possibility that more of its ancient high culture and history may still be
            > > preserved, if interest is revived. there is no copyright to worry about, so
            > > interesting sections could be quoted verbatim.
            > > > > the location of ancient palaces, cities, and archives are of special
            > > interest, as well as references to ophir. pottery and relics of the highest
            > > quality have been found in ecuador. the collection of the late padre crespi
            > > was incredible that he had warehoused at cuenca. one stone had archaic
            > > square hebrew script, that was precolumbian.
            > > > > the tales of lost tunnels and metal libraries have the ring of truth.
            > > > >
            > > > > mike
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
          • Seppo Tiusanen
            Hi Mikea and all This all is an old and hided story. 500 hundred years ago the Italian jesuits found that the Peruvian Indians had too many European and Wets
            Message 5 of 18 , Jun 18, 2012
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              Hi Mikea and all


              This all is an old and hided story. 500 hundred years ago the Italian jesuits found that the Peruvian Indians had too many European and Wets Asian words from all languages, Finno/Ugric (Finnish, Estonian and Hungarian), Scythian, Etruscan, Indo-European, Sami, Armenian, Iranese, Aramean, Aryan, Chinese, Ainu of Japan, Hebrew, Scythian, from Caucasus like Nakh, Daghestanian, Avar, Lak, Lezgic, Chuvash, Turan etc. BTW, Chuvash was a Finno-Ugric tribe before (170 common words with Inca).

              The ancient pagan gods reveal a lot - too much - because we do not have much enough DNA-samples from Ecuador, Peru and Bolivia. Where did the first wave from Europe-Babylonia-Sumer India come from?

              The ancient gods reveal too much: Waka, Lopaka, Katari, Amaru, Asiro, Kollyor etc. At least “Simon” has shown us with WALS that Quechua is born between Hungarian and Mongolian Khalka, but Aymara and Quechua was not spoken in Ecuador before Inca occupied it.

              The caves are in the territory of Shuar indians. No DNA samples available of Shuar.The Sabir people inhabited the Caspian Depression prior to the arrival of the Avars. They appear to have been a Turkic people, possibly of Hunnic origin. Some modern historians speculate that a Sabir tribe or fraction, called Suars, may have resettled in the Middle Volga region, where they later merged with Volga Bulgarians. Indeed, one of the foremost cities of Volga Bulgaria was called Suar or Suwar. Today, some Chuvash historians postulate that their nation is partially descended from Sabirs.”

              Do they have something in common: Sabir (Suar) and Shuar of Ecuador?

              According to autosomal STR the Hungarians, Finns and Estonians were the same tribe (even with Kolla of Aymara) during the Neolithic age. According to a Finnish and a German professor (Matthias Castrén and Ritter/Berlin University)) Jujuy especially were Hungarians in Xiongnu. Now Jujuy can be found in north Argentine as Kolla mixed with Lupaca and Jujuy.

              Golden plates? Only some tribes were specialists to make thin plates of gold. It seems that this skill came from Colombia (Calima, Tumaco, San Agustín, Tierradentro, Cauca, Tolima, Quimbaya and Muisca). Anyway there are strange non-indian Y-haplotypes in Ecuador like G2a, R1a1, I1, Chinese O, C3b etc. Surprised to see that the same I1 with alleles can be found among Wayuu-tribe on the Atlantic beaches of Venezuela & Colombia.

              There is at least one genetic university thesis about Ecuador: Sánchez D, González-Andrade F, Budowle B, Martínez-Jarreta B:

              Y chromosome STR haplotypes: genetic data from Mestizos, Amerindian Kichwas and Afroamericans Blacks from Ecuador, (2006)


              Saludo,

              Seppo

               




              On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 10:49 PM, mike white <michael.white511@...> wrote:
               

              

               
              hi seppo, all
               
                 im pleased that you enjoy the group.  we welcome input and comment. 
                 the frisian book 'over the linda' suggests that the magyar occupied finland and sweden from an early date, that i reckon circa 10,000 bce.  so your language and culture may have a magyar influence.  i believe magyar and scythian are the same people.  let us know your thoughts on this.  magyar inscriptions were found on rocks along the coasts.  runes began with the magyar, long before they were called vikings. 
                 for one reason or another, my tour of the andes antiquities has been delayed.  if time allows after peru and bolivia, i will try to get to cuenca, to see what remains of the crespi collection.  i hope the large tombstone with hebrew is still on display.  its weight may have spared it from looters.  i want to get some close-up photos, in order to compare the characters to modern hebrew, and to that found on the decalog stone of ohio.  i bet the two are near the same, but archaic to modern square script.  i contacted hebrew university, but got no reply.  they failed to see the significance of their script being much older than thought. 
                 if the phoenician colony in brazil is associated with king hiram of tyre, that i date to 5,000 bce, it may represent the last contact between phoenicia and ophir.  the mideast was in turmoil circa 3000 bce, the first diaspora of the jews.  a near global disaster had occurred, causing invasions and migrations.  israel fell on hard times soon after solomon.  two thousand years of jewish history were lost, began again about 1000 bce.  the stone in ecuador likely dates before 5000 bce. that of ohio 3000 bce. 
                 the most wonderful finds of our generation were ignored or denied!  our lads are more comfortable with fallacy.  they think learning should stop, when they leave college.  those who have retired, should feel free to be more open with their opinions.   can they not know of the ica stones, and crespi collection, the acambaro figurines, fuente magna and cabeza, and the cemetery of the giants in ohio.  its unscientific to ignore anomalies.  with study, the number of these anomalies keeps increasing.  so many careers were wasted, with future ridicule likely. 
               
              mike
               
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 10:11 PM
              Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: velasco

               

              Dear Mike,

              I highly appreciate you and you excellent forum - congratulations to you from the bottom of my heart. I am a Finn living among the Amerind during 23 years. Anyway I have been working with the Hungarians for many, many years. I have collected and searched Hugarian cognates in Ecuador and found zero cognates, because I do not speak Hungarian but Estonian.
              Yesterday I have finished a book of about 500 pages about this emphasizing common cognates and ESPECIALLY autosomal STR DNA of CODIS used by FBI and international Police. There were Scythians, Finns, Estonians, Hungarians  and many, many more...even Etruscans and people from Mesopotamia, Persia, Caucasus, INDIA etc.

              We should concentrate especially to the mystery of Lapita!

              You asked before, if somebody knows Spanish. I do it because it is the language at home and if necessary, I wanna help you. Let us investigate it once more with DNA! The Finns are so "isolated" that they must speak at least 4-10 languages.

              Especially in this case I must say that the history is the most an antique lie!

              Saludo cordial,
              Seppo

              On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 5:35 PM, mike white <michael.white511@...> wrote:
               

              

               
                 its not my field, i merely cited what moricz reported.  i welcome others more qualified to look deeper, particularly at the names given features of the terrain.  read the legend of the ayar brothers. 
                 seppo, are you hungarian? 
               
              mike
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 6:28 PM
              Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: velasco

               

              Hi Mike,
              Can you publish these cognates, please?
              I have a collection of common cognates of 96 pages mainly from the following sources:

              Bertonio Ludovico: Vocabvlario de la Lengva Aymara, Transcriptión del texto original 1612, Juli, Chuquito, Impreso y hecho en Arequipa, Peru,

              ISBN 9972-9706-1-4


              Holguin Diego Gonçales:

              Vocabvlario de la Lengva General de todo el Perv llamada Lengua Qquichua, o del Inca.

              Titulo original: Vocabulario de la Lengva General de todo el Perv llamada

              Lengva Qquichua o del Inca. Lima, Imprenta de Francisco del Canto, 1608.


              Investigations of Finnish Professor Panu Hakola:

              -Are the Major Agglunative Languages Genetically Related?

              Published in Language Sciences, Volume 11, Number 4, pp 367 - 394, 1989 in Great Britain

              - Suomen kielen etäiset sukulaiset

              - Hakola Panu, professor: http://www.suomalaisuudenliitto.fi/vanhatsivut/hakola.htm

              - Hakola Panu, professor: http://www.suomalaisuudenliitto.fi/vanhatsivut/hakola2.htm


              Dr. Mary Sargsyan: 15,000 Years Ago Armenian Language’s Trace In Latin America, 2004,Yerevan, Armenia - Similarity searching between Armenian and Aymara Languages


              Dr. Mary M. Herouni-Sargsyan:

              The Language is a nation’s historical memory attestor,

              published in original Armenian in 3rd volume of “Life-long Learning” magazine, 2008


              SHIMIKUNATA ASIRTACHIK KILLKA

              Inka-Kastellanu DICCIONARIO, (Quechua del Pastaza)

              Lima, Perú 2002


              QHESWA - ESPAÑOL - QHESWA

              SIMI TAQE

              Segunda edición, GOBIERNO REGIONAL CUSCO

              Cusco, Perú, 2005


              Glossary of Terminology of the Shamanic & Ceremonial Traditions of the Inca Medicine Lineage

              http://www.incaglossary.org/p.html


              Igor Garshin Konstantinovich webpages:

              http://garshin.ru/personal/my-works.html


              Fournet, Arnaud

              TOCHARIAN LOANWORDS IN MOKSHA-MORDVIN (PDF)


              Korpilinna Esko, Itkevät jumalat 3-osainen artikkelisarja APU-lehdessä:

              1. Muinaiset suomalaiset Etelä-Amerikan valloittajina

              2. Kalevalan ja Inkain kulttuuri ovat samaa juurta

              3. Väinämöinenkö ensimmäinen Inka?


              Ruhlen Merritt, Joseph H. Greenberg,

              1. An Amerind etymological dictionary

              Department of Anthropological Sciences, Stanford University, 2007

              2. Amerind MALIQ’A ‘Swallow, Throat’ and Its Origin in the Old World, pp. 24251.

              3. Global Etymologies” (with John Bengtson), pp. 277336.


              Fray Domingo de Santo Tomás O.P:

              Grammatica o arte de la lengua general de los indios de los reynos del Peru

              Valladolid, España,1560


              Fray Domingo de Santo Tomás O.P:

              Lexicón o Vocabulario de la lengua general del PERV.

              Valladolid, España,1560


              Comité de Educación Inga de la Organización:

              Musu Runakuna”,

              DICCIONARIO INGA,

              (edición interina en el nuevo alfabeto),

              (borrador de septiembre de 1997)



              Ajacopa Teofilo Laime, Efraín Cazazola, Félix Layme Pairumani:

              Diccionario Bilingűe: Iskay simipi yuyayk'ancha

              La Paz – Bolivia Enero, 2007


              Awank’ay Blanco:

              Runasimipi-Sutikuna

              PDF



              Ellis Robert:

              Peruvia Scythica: The Quichua Language of Peru

              isbn 1437215114, (isbn13: 9781437215113)

              First published 1875


              Bolivia, Ministerio de Educación:

              ARUSIMIÑEE

              Castellano, Aymara, Guaraní, Qhichwa


              Bouda, Karl:

              Tungusisch und Ketschua

              Zeitschrift der Deutschen Morgenländische Gesellschaft

              1960


              Callisaya Gregorio et al:

              Glosario de Nuevos Términos Aimaras

              Universidad Mayor de San Andres, La Paz, Bolivia


              Camacho Gutiérrez Leoncio, Leonidas Mantilla Gutierrez, Shara Huaman Jullunila:

              Apurimaqpaq Runasimi Taqe - Diccionario de Quechua Apurimeño

              Academia Mayor de la Lengua Quechua filial Apurímac

              Abancay, Perú Feb. 2007


              Camacho Gutiérrez Leoncio:

              Apurimakpa Runasimin: El Habla de Apurímac

              Academia de la Lengua Quechua filial Apurímac


              Cerrón-Palomino Rodolfo

              El cantar de Inca Yupanqui y la lengua secreta de los incas

              Apartado Postal No. 210035

              Lima 21, PERU


              Chueca José Gabriel:

              Cerrón-Palomino Rodolfo:“Lengua oficial de los incas fue el aimara; luego, el quechua”

              Sociedad, Vie. 12 sep 2008


              Civallero Edgardo:

              Glosario de lenguas indígenas sudamericanas

              Universidad Nacional de Córdoba – Argentina


              Gobierno Regional Cusco, Academia Mayor de la Lengua Quechua:

              Qheswa Simi Hamut'ana Kurak Suntur: Qheswa -Español – Qheswa, Simi Taque

              Cusco Perú 2005


              Laime Ajacopa, Teofilo:

              DICCIONARIO BILINGÜE: Iskay simipi yuyayk'ancha

              La Paz - Bolivia

              Enero, 2007


              Navarro, Fr. Manuel:

              Vocabulario Castellano-Quechua-Pano con sus respectivas gramáticas Quechua y Pana

              1903, Peru Lima, Imprenta del Estado


              Palavecino, Enrique:

              Elementos lingüísticos de Oceanía en el Quechua

              Buenos Aires, 1926


              Rajki András:

              English – Quechua – Aymara Word List

              A slightly extended Swadesh list

              2005


              Rumiñawi (Instituto Qheshwa Jujuymanta), S. S. de Jujuy:

              RELACIONES ENTRE LENGUAS AMERINDIAS Y EXTRA-CONTINENTALES: Quechua y arameo

              ETC.

              In order to see the roots (typology) of Quechua of Imbabura and other languages you shoud read both:

              Greenhill S.J, Q.D. Atkinson, A. Meade, R.D. Gray:

              The shape and tempo of language evolution


              Wichmann Søren, Eric W. Holman:

              Comparing Macro-Altaic and Native American languages: What Can WALS Tell Us?

              (Presentation at a meeting on Altaic and Native American languages, Seoul, Oct. 28, 2006)

              Søren Wichmann, Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology & Leiden University in collaboration with Eric W. Holman, University of California, Los Angeles

              Greetings, Seppo





              On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 3:11 PM, mike white <michael.white511@...> wrote:
               

               
                 i don't see the motive that would inspire such a fraud.  its written that
              Juan Moricz filed a claim for ownership of the land that has the entry to the tunnel system.  if all is a hoax, why would he do that?  has anyone examined the records to see where the boundaries of that claim lie?  no doubt but the entry was concealed. 
                 moricz seemed to be accurate on finding many local words having magyar roots. 
                 much could be added to our knowledge of history, if experts on ancient magyar and the assyrian language would show some interest. 
               
              mike    
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 10:27 AM
              Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: velasco

               

              Hi Stan and everybody,

              From the very beginning I knew that Juan Moricz was inventing the book daily with his wife - FALSE alarm! He was crazy - el era loco! If there is Erich von Däniken and an astronaut, it must be a heavy FRAUD like colonel James Irwin, the Apollo 15 astronaut in Exodus interpretations. I have seen all this mess when living 2 years in Sinai and even meeting them.

              Let us return via Sumer, Babylon and ancient India to Bolivia and Pokotia once again with DNA and pagan Gods. True or false? During ten years absolutely false to me but now in reality ABSOLUTELY TRUE.


              Saludo cordial,
              Seppo

              On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 3:32 AM, mike white <michael.white511@...> wrote:
               

               
              hi stan, all
               
                 glad to hear from you again stan.  its disappointing that no library was found.  even without that, the relics that were shown online in the crespi collection, show many fascinating glimpses of former high cultures in ecuador.  its a shame that the collection was broken up and scattered.  many pieces will be lost to us.  
                 there are likely lost gold and emerald mines in ecuador.  rivers flowing to the east from it are aurific, but the motherlode is now unknown.  not sure how much mining is now done.  even platinum occurs there. 
                 i wonder what products the ancient phoenicians could have traded for gold and emeralds?  they must have been perishable.  lacking products of high enough value to trade may have caused invasions and looting. 
                 early accurate maps show wonderful detail of the contour of ice-free antarctica, and upper canada - so the ancient navigators may have known of the route around cape horn and thru the drake passage.  the book by hapgood is worth reading, 'the maps of the ancient sea kings', the title suggests that author may have had a hint they were by the frisians. 
                 there were too many mentions of ancient tunnels to be ignored.  maybe lava tubes were meant.  there could be many of these underground in ecuador.  some of these may have been modified and used for storage and caching relics. 
               
              mike
               
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Stan
              Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 10:25 AM
              Subject: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: velasco

               

              Sorry Lads,

              When it comes to metallic libraries in Ecuador, so far, Petronio Jaramillo made it all up well before Juan Moricz appeared on the scene in the 1960's. Then came along the greatest liar of them all, Erich Von Daniken, to spread the falsehoods in his book, Gold of the Gods. I listened to Juan Moricz rant and rave about his hatred of Erich for many hours in the early 1980's.

              I've interviewed all of the players in this story for the last 25 years. Did you know there was a professional Japanese Tayos expedition in the 90's? They penetrated 15 kilometers into the cave!

              I've been in the main Tayos Cave, and also in Stanley Hall's Tayos Cave on the Pastaza River (Tayos Gold). I have it all on video. I know all of the Shuar Natives who live near both caves. I have questioned them extensively.

              As much as I would love the "metallic library" story to be true, it simply is not. That said, I do agree with Mike about the ancient and largely unknown history of Ecuador. There is still much to be discovered here.

              Two months ago, we conducted an expedition into an area just north of Cajas National Park on private property. It took 8 hours to arrive on horseback. We were escorted to this archaeological site by the property owner. It turned out to be a very large and remote "lost city" (one of the first phases of the Canari culture). The site is approximately 5 times larger than Ingapirca. There were five caves on this property. Each cave contained abundant quantities of ceramic archaeological material.

              These lost and remote sites are out there and I will continue to investigate each and every one that comes to my attention. Like most of you, I seek to understand the great ancient mysteries of South America.

              Stan Grist
              www.Adventure-Trader.com

              --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <mirageinspectorjay@...> wrote:
              >
              > metal libraries? I assume that would require some tin from the Bolivian tin mines I've never found to much history of in the english language. Although I must admit time has always been an illusive factor for me dispite the fact that the Welsh symbol for 100 is basically the same as the Yuchi and other societies I dont care to mention except for the early Merovingian tradition who used metal rings to light fires. The eariler method of the nodfyr "fire of necessity" seems to be a method assumed to have come from them although I think it may predate the Roman calendar in former times when a week was reconized before the later idea at the end of antiquity.
              >
              > To a degree the customary 100 braids platted for the maternal line among the Inca is more interesting in the light that Wales wasn't obtained by war but rather birthright. That seems to basically be the bottom line for the "Prince" Madoc incentive from the mindspring of An Essay on the Druids, the Ancient Churches and the Round Towers of Ireland pub.1871 by the Welsh publication society which may provide some overlooked data. pdf also available, public domain "out of copyright" edition & also povided by google books.
              >
              > As far as simular claims that may be inaccurate or accurate regarding the Inca as far as I know are the british israelites so it may be worth wide to consider Mormon traditions & archaeology as well as take note of Brit Am and atavistic languages related Aramaic and Arabic projects espically now that some are complete or near completion.
              >
              > be well,
              > jay
              >
              > --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com, "mike white" <michael.white511@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > again, i invite and implore a member able to read spanish, to give the group an informal review of the work of velasco on ecuador. its my opinion that ecuador may have a history going back up to 26,000 bce. almost nothing is known of it, yet, it being last conquered by the inca, there is a possibility that more of its ancient high culture and history may still be preserved, if interest is revived. there is no copyright to worry about, so interesting sections could be quoted verbatim.
              > > the location of ancient palaces, cities, and archives are of special interest, as well as references to ophir. pottery and relics of the highest quality have been found in ecuador. the collection of the late padre crespi was incredible that he had warehoused at cuenca. one stone had archaic square hebrew script, that was precolumbian.
              > > the tales of lost tunnels and metal libraries have the ring of truth.
              > >
              > > mike
              > >
              >





            • mike white
              i think the metallic relics of the crespi collection were crated and sent to the vatican. at least thats what i read somewhere. i will do a casual review of
              Message 6 of 18 , Jun 18, 2012
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                   i think the metallic relics of the crespi collection were crated and sent to the vatican.  at least thats what i read somewhere. 
                   i will do a casual review of the book you cited on google, and post comments on my groups. 
                   so the lava tubes are part of this mystery.  im not opposed to finding some gold in a streambed, but my primary focus is on learning an accurate history of the region.  i used to love backpacking and hiking mountain trails, but with age my legs are not up to it now.  im limited to short walks. 
                   if i expect to get to cuenca stan, i will try to meet you for coffee, etc.  im sure we will have lots to talk about.  its great to have someone with firsthand knowledge in the group. 
                   i would be interested in your book on gold hunting.  you can attach it to my group email, or web@...   i will review it for the group, and save you trouble. 
                   there is a valley near quito that was covered by lava, i understand.  there may be a city buried there like pompei.  this was true in mexico. 
                   the natives may have buried sites to hide them from the inca, and later the spaniards.  the quito area likely had high culture far longer than the inca period, for many thousands of years. 
                 
                mike
                 
                 
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Stan
                Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 9:49 AM
                Subject: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: velasco & misc.

                 

                Hi Mike, all,

                The Crespi metallic relics are still an enigma. Nobody knows where they are now. They appear to be lost to the public. I will continue to try to track them down well into the future.

                The ceramic part of the collection is still in tact in the basement of the Banco Central museum in Cuenca. It is possible to arrange a private viewing of the Crespi ceramic collection. I would be pleased to organize this visit for Mike or any others in the group who come to Cuenca as I am now living here.

                I have been studying the ancient and lost gold and emerald mines in Ecuador for about 25 years. I have located many of the sites. I have discovered the exact locations of the so-called lost cities of El Dorado which all date to pre-Inca times. Since the 1500's they are known as Sevilla de Oro, Logrono, Nambija, Bilbao, Old Zamora, Santiago de las Montanas, Borja and Jaen de Bracamoras. These locations are mentioned in "The Rivers Ran East" by Leonard Clark (can be found in Google books).

                Gold mining is very active in most of these areas today. I can pan at least one gram of gold per hour in any one of these locations; in some places, much more. Even with all of the mining that has taken place over thousands of years, the surface has still not yet been scratched. The gold is more abundant than even I can believe.

                I am also in possession of 2 emeralds (authenticated by the GIA) that came from a river in the northern jungles of Ecuador. These emeralds were obtained from some Cofanes Natives in the 1960's. The old emerald mine is located in their territory. I am still hoping to organize an expedition into this area with the blessing and assistance of today's Cofane chief.

                In my next post, I will share a story of an ancient tunnel that was discovered near Banos in the 1920s. The entrance to the tunnel is through a lava tube cave. The evidence I have is overwhelming that the story is true. I have been in the cave but could not reach the tunnel do to a blockage. With some effort, the cave could be cleared. The owners are good friends and want to sell the property.

                Meanwhile, I have written a small book entitled "How and Where to Find Gold in Ecuador". I would be pleased to send a complimentary copy to anyone in this group. Just send me an email and I will attach it to the return.

                Warm Regards, Stan

                --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com, "mike white" <michael.white511@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > hi stan, all
                >
                > glad to hear from you again stan. its disappointing that no library was found. even without that, the relics that were shown online in the crespi collection, show many fascinating glimpses of former high cultures in ecuador. its a shame that the collection was broken up and scattered. many pieces will be lost to us.
                > there are likely lost gold and emerald mines in ecuador. rivers flowing to the east from it are aurific, but the motherlode is now unknown. not sure how much mining is now done. even platinum occurs there.
                > i wonder what products the ancient phoenicians could have traded for gold and emeralds? they must have been perishable. lacking products of high enough value to trade may have caused invasions and looting.
                > early accurate maps show wonderful detail of the contour of ice-free antarctica, and upper canada - so the ancient navigators may have known of the route around cape horn and thru the drake passage. the book by hapgood is worth reading, 'the maps of the ancient sea kings', the title suggests that author may have had a hint they were by the frisians.
                > there were too many mentions of ancient tunnels to be ignored. maybe lava tubes were meant. there could be many of these underground in ecuador. some of these may have been modified and used for storage and caching relics.
                >
                > mike
                >
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Stan
                > To: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 10:25 AM
                > Subject: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: velasco
                >
                >
                >
                > Sorry Lads,
                >
                > When it comes to metallic libraries in Ecuador, so far, Petronio Jaramillo made it all up well before Juan Moricz appeared on the scene in the 1960's. Then came along the greatest liar of them all, Erich Von Daniken, to spread the falsehoods in his book, Gold of the Gods. I listened to Juan Moricz rant and rave about his hatred of Erich for many hours in the early 1980's.
                >
                > I've interviewed all of the players in this story for the last 25 years. Did you know there was a professional Japanese Tayos expedition in the 90's? They penetrated 15 kilometers into the cave!
                >
                > I've been in the main Tayos Cave, and also in Stanley Hall's Tayos Cave on the Pastaza River (Tayos Gold). I have it all on video. I know all of the Shuar Natives who live near both caves. I have questioned them extensively.
                >
                > As much as I would love the "metallic library" story to be true, it simply is not. That said, I do agree with Mike about the ancient and largely unknown history of Ecuador. There is still much to be discovered here.
                >
                > Two months ago, we conducted an expedition into an area just north of Cajas National Park on private property. It took 8 hours to arrive on horseback. We were escorted to this archaeological site by the property owner. It turned out to be a very large and remote "lost city" (one of the first phases of the Canari culture). The site is approximately 5 times larger than Ingapirca. There were five caves on this property. Each cave contained abundant quantities of ceramic archaeological material.
                >
                > These lost and remote sites are out there and I will continue to investigate each and every one that comes to my attention. Like most of you, I seek to understand the great ancient mysteries of South America.
                >
                > Stan Grist
                > www.Adventure-Trader.com
                >
                > --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <mirageinspectorjay@> wrote:
                > >
                > > metal libraries? I assume that would require some tin from the Bolivian tin mines I've never found to much history of in the english language. Although I must admit time has always been an illusive factor for me dispite the fact that the Welsh symbol for 100 is basically the same as the Yuchi and other societies I dont care to mention except for the early Merovingian tradition who used metal rings to light fires. The eariler method of the nodfyr "fire of necessity" seems to be a method assumed to have come from them although I think it may predate the Roman calendar in former times when a week was reconized before the later idea at the end of antiquity.
                > >
                > > To a degree the customary 100 braids platted for the maternal line among the Inca is more interesting in the light that Wales wasn't obtained by war but rather birthright. That seems to basically be the bottom line for the "Prince" Madoc incentive from the mindspring of An Essay on the Druids, the Ancient Churches and the Round Towers of Ireland pub.1871 by the Welsh publication society which may provide some overlooked data. pdf also available, public domain "out of copyright" edition & also povided by google books.
                > >
                > > As far as simular claims that may be inaccurate or accurate regarding the Inca as far as I know are the british israelites so it may be worth wide to consider Mormon traditions & archaeology as well as take note of Brit Am and atavistic languages related Aramaic and Arabic projects espically now that some are complete or near completion.
                > >
                > > be well,
                > > jay
                > >
                > > --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com, "mike white" <michael.white511@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > again, i invite and implore a member able to read spanish, to give the group an informal review of the work of velasco on ecuador. its my opinion that ecuador may have a history going back up to 26,000 bce. almost nothing is known of it, yet, it being last conquered by the inca, there is a possibility that more of its ancient high culture and history may still be preserved, if interest is revived. there is no copyright to worry about, so interesting sections could be quoted verbatim.
                > > > the location of ancient palaces, cities, and archives are of special interest, as well as references to ophir. pottery and relics of the highest quality have been found in ecuador. the collection of the late padre crespi was incredible that he had warehoused at cuenca. one stone had archaic square hebrew script, that was precolumbian.
                > > > the tales of lost tunnels and metal libraries have the ring of truth.
                > > >
                > > > mike
                > > >
                > >
                >

              • enrico mattievich
                *Hi Mike, all* * * *I m very interested in the new book of Seppo Tiusanen!* * * *A metallic object found on the North coast of Peru is* *similar to five
                Message 7 of 18 , Jun 18, 2012
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                  Hi Mike, all

                  I'm very interested in the new book of Seppo Tiusanen!

                  A metallic object found on the North coast of Peru is
                  similar to five sistrum of the Bronze Age found at Bourget
                  lake dwelling, France. Similar metallic tubes was used in
                  Scandinavia.

                  Sistrum is a metal rattle used as musical instrument in
                  the worship of Isis in ancient Egypt.

                  Regards,
                  Enrico 

                  2012/6/18 mike white <michael.white511@...>
                   

                   
                     i think the metallic relics of the crespi collection were crated and sent to the vatican.  at least thats what i read somewhere. 
                     i will do a casual review of the book you cited on google, and post comments on my groups. 
                     so the lava tubes are part of this mystery.  im not opposed to finding some gold in a streambed, but my primary focus is on learning an accurate history of the region.  i used to love backpacking and hiking mountain trails, but with age my legs are not up to it now.  im limited to short walks. 
                     if i expect to get to cuenca stan, i will try to meet you for coffee, etc.  im sure we will have lots to talk about.  its great to have someone with firsthand knowledge in the group. 
                     i would be interested in your book on gold hunting.  you can attach it to my group email, or web@...   i will review it for the group, and save you trouble. 
                     there is a valley near quito that was covered by lava, i understand.  there may be a city buried there like pompei.  this was true in mexico. 
                     the natives may have buried sites to hide them from the inca, and later the spaniards.  the quito area likely had high culture far longer than the inca period, for many thousands of years. 
                   
                  mike
                   
                   
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Stan
                  Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 9:49 AM
                  Subject: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: velasco & misc.

                   

                  Hi Mike, all,

                  The Crespi metallic relics are still an enigma. Nobody knows where they are now. They appear to be lost to the public. I will continue to try to track them down well into the future.

                  The ceramic part of the collection is still in tact in the basement of the Banco Central museum in Cuenca. It is possible to arrange a private viewing of the Crespi ceramic collection. I would be pleased to organize this visit for Mike or any others in the group who come to Cuenca as I am now living here.

                  I have been studying the ancient and lost gold and emerald mines in Ecuador for about 25 years. I have located many of the sites. I have discovered the exact locations of the so-called lost cities of El Dorado which all date to pre-Inca times. Since the 1500's they are known as Sevilla de Oro, Logrono, Nambija, Bilbao, Old Zamora, Santiago de las Montanas, Borja and Jaen de Bracamoras. These locations are mentioned in "The Rivers Ran East" by Leonard Clark (can be found in Google books).

                  Gold mining is very active in most of these areas today. I can pan at least one gram of gold per hour in any one of these locations; in some places, much more. Even with all of the mining that has taken place over thousands of years, the surface has still not yet been scratched. The gold is more abundant than even I can believe.

                  I am also in possession of 2 emeralds (authenticated by the GIA) that came from a river in the northern jungles of Ecuador. These emeralds were obtained from some Cofanes Natives in the 1960's. The old emerald mine is located in their territory. I am still hoping to organize an expedition into this area with the blessing and assistance of today's Cofane chief.

                  In my next post, I will share a story of an ancient tunnel that was discovered near Banos in the 1920s. The entrance to the tunnel is through a lava tube cave. The evidence I have is overwhelming that the story is true. I have been in the cave but could not reach the tunnel do to a blockage. With some effort, the cave could be cleared. The owners are good friends and want to sell the property.

                  Meanwhile, I have written a small book entitled "How and Where to Find Gold in Ecuador". I would be pleased to send a complimentary copy to anyone in this group. Just send me an email and I will attach it to the return.

                  Warm Regards, Stan

                  --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com, "mike white" <michael.white511@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > hi stan, all
                  >
                  > glad to hear from you again stan. its disappointing that no library was found. even without that, the relics that were shown online in the crespi collection, show many fascinating glimpses of former high cultures in ecuador. its a shame that the collection was broken up and scattered. many pieces will be lost to us.
                  > there are likely lost gold and emerald mines in ecuador. rivers flowing to the east from it are aurific, but the motherlode is now unknown. not sure how much mining is now done. even platinum occurs there.
                  > i wonder what products the ancient phoenicians could have traded for gold and emeralds? they must have been perishable. lacking products of high enough value to trade may have caused invasions and looting.
                  > early accurate maps show wonderful detail of the contour of ice-free antarctica, and upper canada - so the ancient navigators may have known of the route around cape horn and thru the drake passage. the book by hapgood is worth reading, 'the maps of the ancient sea kings', the title suggests that author may have had a hint they were by the frisians.
                  > there were too many mentions of ancient tunnels to be ignored. maybe lava tubes were meant. there could be many of these underground in ecuador. some of these may have been modified and used for storage and caching relics.
                  >
                  > mike
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Stan
                  > To: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 10:25 AM
                  > Subject: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: velasco
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Sorry Lads,
                  >
                  > When it comes to metallic libraries in Ecuador, so far, Petronio Jaramillo made it all up well before Juan Moricz appeared on the scene in the 1960's. Then came along the greatest liar of them all, Erich Von Daniken, to spread the falsehoods in his book, Gold of the Gods. I listened to Juan Moricz rant and rave about his hatred of Erich for many hours in the early 1980's.
                  >
                  > I've interviewed all of the players in this story for the last 25 years. Did you know there was a professional Japanese Tayos expedition in the 90's? They penetrated 15 kilometers into the cave!
                  >
                  > I've been in the main Tayos Cave, and also in Stanley Hall's Tayos Cave on the Pastaza River (Tayos Gold). I have it all on video. I know all of the Shuar Natives who live near both caves. I have questioned them extensively.
                  >
                  > As much as I would love the "metallic library" story to be true, it simply is not. That said, I do agree with Mike about the ancient and largely unknown history of Ecuador. There is still much to be discovered here.
                  >
                  > Two months ago, we conducted an expedition into an area just north of Cajas National Park on private property. It took 8 hours to arrive on horseback. We were escorted to this archaeological site by the property owner. It turned out to be a very large and remote "lost city" (one of the first phases of the Canari culture). The site is approximately 5 times larger than Ingapirca. There were five caves on this property. Each cave contained abundant quantities of ceramic archaeological material.
                  >
                  > These lost and remote sites are out there and I will continue to investigate each and every one that comes to my attention. Like most of you, I seek to understand the great ancient mysteries of South America.
                  >
                  > Stan Grist
                  > www.Adventure-Trader.com
                  >
                  > --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <mirageinspectorjay@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > metal libraries? I assume that would require some tin from the Bolivian tin mines I've never found to much history of in the english language. Although I must admit time has always been an illusive factor for me dispite the fact that the Welsh symbol for 100 is basically the same as the Yuchi and other societies I dont care to mention except for the early Merovingian tradition who used metal rings to light fires. The eariler method of the nodfyr "fire of necessity" seems to be a method assumed to have come from them although I think it may predate the Roman calendar in former times when a week was reconized before the later idea at the end of antiquity.
                  > >
                  > > To a degree the customary 100 braids platted for the maternal line among the Inca is more interesting in the light that Wales wasn't obtained by war but rather birthright. That seems to basically be the bottom line for the "Prince" Madoc incentive from the mindspring of An Essay on the Druids, the Ancient Churches and the Round Towers of Ireland pub.1871 by the Welsh publication society which may provide some overlooked data. pdf also available, public domain "out of copyright" edition & also povided by google books.
                  > >
                  > > As far as simular claims that may be inaccurate or accurate regarding the Inca as far as I know are the british israelites so it may be worth wide to consider Mormon traditions & archaeology as well as take note of Brit Am and atavistic languages related Aramaic and Arabic projects espically now that some are complete or near completion.
                  > >
                  > > be well,
                  > > jay
                  > >
                  > > --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com, "mike white" <michael.white511@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > again, i invite and implore a member able to read spanish, to give the group an informal review of the work of velasco on ecuador. its my opinion that ecuador may have a history going back up to 26,000 bce. almost nothing is known of it, yet, it being last conquered by the inca, there is a possibility that more of its ancient high culture and history may still be preserved, if interest is revived. there is no copyright to worry about, so interesting sections could be quoted verbatim.
                  > > > the location of ancient palaces, cities, and archives are of special interest, as well as references to ophir. pottery and relics of the highest quality have been found in ecuador. the collection of the late padre crespi was incredible that he had warehoused at cuenca. one stone had archaic square hebrew script, that was precolumbian.
                  > > > the tales of lost tunnels and metal libraries have the ring of truth.
                  > > >
                  > > > mike
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >


                • mike white
                  the sistrum is an interesting instrument. it pictures hathor, and was used to avoid floods. the egyptians were wise, having added atlantean wisdom to their
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jun 18, 2012
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                  • 0 Attachment
                     
                       the sistrum is an interesting instrument.  it pictures hathor, and was used to avoid floods.  the egyptians were wise, having added atlantean wisdom to their own. 
                       i noted years ago, that the iron wand used in the 'opening the mouth' ritual was shaped to depict the stars of ursa major, the big dipper.  we have lost the significance of these objects. 
                       magic, alchemy, and astrology were advanced arts in egypt.  our culture remains in its infancy.  if these items were made exactly of the proper materials, and if we knew the right words or tones, we might behold wonders. 
                     
                     
                    File:Egyptian - Sistrum - Walters 541207.jpg
                     
                    mike
                     
                     
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 8:47 PM
                    Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: velasco & misc.

                     

                    Hi Mike, all


                    I'm very interested in the new book of Seppo Tiusanen!

                    A metallic object found on the North coast of Peru is
                    similar to five sistrum of the Bronze Age found at Bourget
                    lake dwelling, France. Similar metallic tubes was used in
                    Scandinavia.

                    Sistrum is a metal rattle used as musical instrument in
                    the worship of Isis in ancient Egypt.

                    Regards,
                    Enrico 

                    2012/6/18 mike white <michael.white511@...>
                     

                     
                       i think the metallic relics of the crespi collection were crated and sent to the vatican.  at least thats what i read somewhere. 
                       i will do a casual review of the book you cited on google, and post comments on my groups. 
                       so the lava tubes are part of this mystery.  im not opposed to finding some gold in a streambed, but my primary focus is on learning an accurate history of the region.  i used to love backpacking and hiking mountain trails, but with age my legs are not up to it now.  im limited to short walks. 
                       if i expect to get to cuenca stan, i will try to meet you for coffee, etc.  im sure we will have lots to talk about.  its great to have someone with firsthand knowledge in the group. 
                       i would be interested in your book on gold hunting.  you can attach it to my group email, or web@...   i will review it for the group, and save you trouble. 
                       there is a valley near quito that was covered by lava, i understand.  there may be a city buried there like pompei.  this was true in mexico. 
                       the natives may have buried sites to hide them from the inca, and later the spaniards.  the quito area likely had high culture far longer than the inca period, for many thousands of years. 
                     
                    mike
                     
                     
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Stan
                    Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 9:49 AM
                    Subject: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: velasco & misc.

                     

                    Hi Mike, all,

                    The Crespi metallic relics are still an enigma. Nobody knows where they are now. They appear to be lost to the public. I will continue to try to track them down well into the future.

                    The ceramic part of the collection is still in tact in the basement of the Banco Central museum in Cuenca. It is possible to arrange a private viewing of the Crespi ceramic collection. I would be pleased to organize this visit for Mike or any others in the group who come to Cuenca as I am now living here.

                    I have been studying the ancient and lost gold and emerald mines in Ecuador for about 25 years. I have located many of the sites. I have discovered the exact locations of the so-called lost cities of El Dorado which all date to pre-Inca times. Since the 1500's they are known as Sevilla de Oro, Logrono, Nambija, Bilbao, Old Zamora, Santiago de las Montanas, Borja and Jaen de Bracamoras. These locations are mentioned in "The Rivers Ran East" by Leonard Clark (can be found in Google books).

                    Gold mining is very active in most of these areas today. I can pan at least one gram of gold per hour in any one of these locations; in some places, much more. Even with all of the mining that has taken place over thousands of years, the surface has still not yet been scratched. The gold is more abundant than even I can believe.

                    I am also in possession of 2 emeralds (authenticated by the GIA) that came from a river in the northern jungles of Ecuador. These emeralds were obtained from some Cofanes Natives in the 1960's. The old emerald mine is located in their territory. I am still hoping to organize an expedition into this area with the blessing and assistance of today's Cofane chief.

                    In my next post, I will share a story of an ancient tunnel that was discovered near Banos in the 1920s. The entrance to the tunnel is through a lava tube cave. The evidence I have is overwhelming that the story is true. I have been in the cave but could not reach the tunnel do to a blockage. With some effort, the cave could be cleared. The owners are good friends and want to sell the property.

                    Meanwhile, I have written a small book entitled "How and Where to Find Gold in Ecuador". I would be pleased to send a complimentary copy to anyone in this group. Just send me an email and I will attach it to the return.

                    Warm Regards, Stan

                    --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com, "mike white" <michael.white511@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > hi stan, all
                    >
                    > glad to hear from you again stan. its disappointing that no library was found. even without that, the relics that were shown online in the crespi collection, show many fascinating glimpses of former high cultures in ecuador. its a shame that the collection was broken up and scattered. many pieces will be lost to us.
                    > there are likely lost gold and emerald mines in ecuador. rivers flowing to the east from it are aurific, but the motherlode is now unknown. not sure how much mining is now done. even platinum occurs there.
                    > i wonder what products the ancient phoenicians could have traded for gold and emeralds? they must have been perishable. lacking products of high enough value to trade may have caused invasions and looting.
                    > early accurate maps show wonderful detail of the contour of ice-free antarctica, and upper canada - so the ancient navigators may have known of the route around cape horn and thru the drake passage. the book by hapgood is worth reading, 'the maps of the ancient sea kings', the title suggests that author may have had a hint they were by the frisians.
                    > there were too many mentions of ancient tunnels to be ignored. maybe lava tubes were meant. there could be many of these underground in ecuador. some of these may have been modified and used for storage and caching relics.
                    >
                    > mike
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: Stan
                    > To: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 10:25 AM
                    > Subject: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: velasco
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Sorry Lads,
                    >
                    > When it comes to metallic libraries in Ecuador, so far, Petronio Jaramillo made it all up well before Juan Moricz appeared on the scene in the 1960's. Then came along the greatest liar of them all, Erich Von Daniken, to spread the falsehoods in his book, Gold of the Gods. I listened to Juan Moricz rant and rave about his hatred of Erich for many hours in the early 1980's.
                    >
                    > I've interviewed all of the players in this story for the last 25 years. Did you know there was a professional Japanese Tayos expedition in the 90's? They penetrated 15 kilometers into the cave!
                    >
                    > I've been in the main Tayos Cave, and also in Stanley Hall's Tayos Cave on the Pastaza River (Tayos Gold). I have it all on video. I know all of the Shuar Natives who live near both caves. I have questioned them extensively.
                    >
                    > As much as I would love the "metallic library" story to be true, it simply is not. That said, I do agree with Mike about the ancient and largely unknown history of Ecuador. There is still much to be discovered here.
                    >
                    > Two months ago, we conducted an expedition into an area just north of Cajas National Park on private property. It took 8 hours to arrive on horseback. We were escorted to this archaeological site by the property owner. It turned out to be a very large and remote "lost city" (one of the first phases of the Canari culture). The site is approximately 5 times larger than Ingapirca. There were five caves on this property. Each cave contained abundant quantities of ceramic archaeological material.
                    >
                    > These lost and remote sites are out there and I will continue to investigate each and every one that comes to my attention. Like most of you, I seek to understand the great ancient mysteries of South America.
                    >
                    > Stan Grist
                    > www.Adventure-Trader.com
                    >
                    > --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com, "james m clark jr" <mirageinspectorjay@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > metal libraries? I assume that would require some tin from the Bolivian tin mines I've never found to much history of in the english language. Although I must admit time has always been an illusive factor for me dispite the fact that the Welsh symbol for 100 is basically the same as the Yuchi and other societies I dont care to mention except for the early Merovingian tradition who used metal rings to light fires. The eariler method of the nodfyr "fire of necessity" seems to be a method assumed to have come from them although I think it may predate the Roman calendar in former times when a week was reconized before the later idea at the end of antiquity.
                    > >
                    > > To a degree the customary 100 braids platted for the maternal line among the Inca is more interesting in the light that Wales wasn't obtained by war but rather birthright. That seems to basically be the bottom line for the "Prince" Madoc incentive from the mindspring of An Essay on the Druids, the Ancient Churches and the Round Towers of Ireland pub.1871 by the Welsh publication society which may provide some overlooked data. pdf also available, public domain "out of copyright" edition & also povided by google books.
                    > >
                    > > As far as simular claims that may be inaccurate or accurate regarding the Inca as far as I know are the british israelites so it may be worth wide to consider Mormon traditions & archaeology as well as take note of Brit Am and atavistic languages related Aramaic and Arabic projects espically now that some are complete or near completion.
                    > >
                    > > be well,
                    > > jay
                    > >
                    > > --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com, "mike white" <michael.white511@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > again, i invite and implore a member able to read spanish, to give the group an informal review of the work of velasco on ecuador. its my opinion that ecuador may have a history going back up to 26,000 bce. almost nothing is known of it, yet, it being last conquered by the inca, there is a possibility that more of its ancient high culture and history may still be preserved, if interest is revived. there is no copyright to worry about, so interesting sections could be quoted verbatim.
                    > > > the location of ancient palaces, cities, and archives are of special interest, as well as references to ophir. pottery and relics of the highest quality have been found in ecuador. the collection of the late padre crespi was incredible that he had warehoused at cuenca. one stone had archaic square hebrew script, that was precolumbian.
                    > > > the tales of lost tunnels and metal libraries have the ring of truth.
                    > > >
                    > > > mike
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >


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