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Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] ohio

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  • mike white
    Title: Early history of Cleveland, Ohio : including papers and other matter relating to the adjacent country ; with biographical notices of the pioneers and
    Message 1 of 17 , Jun 17, 2009
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      Title: Early history of Cleveland, Ohio : including papers and other matter relating to the adjacent country ; with biographical notices of the pioneers and surveyors /
      Author: Whittlesey, Charles, 1808-1886.
       
         this text leads me to think that the eries or cat tribe located south of lake erie used the crude forts in defence from the iroquois.  the latter tribe used their canoes as scaling ladders to overcome the pickets atop the forts, and destroyed the eries.  it doesnt prove the eries built the forts, but they and white settlers were known to resort to them for defence. 
        
       
          had the vikings not hid from conversion and church tithes, norway would have had claim to many states from new england thru minn.  masses came here, and perhaps survived up to 400 years, and may have been destroyed by the souix. 
          tree ring dating was known and used by 1800 in ohio. 
          evan's early map shows petroleum on the ohio near yellow creek. 
         im bothered by one thing, the era the giants occupied ohio.  most of the early accounts assumed the giants lived there far back in time, and the eries moved in much later.  yet the cemetery of the giants still showed depressions, where the ground settled after decay.  their burials must have been after the ice-age, when glaciers scoured northern ohio.  it was after the drift, and apparently after those several events that deposited clay over successive forests.  not knowing what caused the clay deposits, i can only guess it was the various glaciers, or floods that followed from debris damming the niagra.  in either case, those giants must have lived at conneaut ohio after 6000 bce.  had it been longer, deposits of soil from space would have filled in the depressions, and added numerous feet of fill above them.  this is a startling conclusion, but if im in error, the date would be more recent, not older.  its possible that the erie indians were direct descendants of the giants.  a remnant of that drive survived the massacre, and early accounts placed them west of the mississippi river.  other accounts stated that the erie people were offshoots of the iroqouis nation, and spoke a variant of the same language.  we normally think the algonquin were the earliest people, but cayce said the iroquois spoke a language closest to atlantean, which tends to place them among the first nations in america.  we may need to allow 12,000 years or more for several eastern tribes, like the iroquois, lenape, and the creek.  many of the eastern states show no indication of having been covered by the sea for at least 50,000 years.  being the most stable lands of the usa, they should have had the earliest cultures, along with the colorado plateau.
       
      imho
      mike
       
       
    • william smith
      Hi Mike   Your great post and information sharing keep us all on our toes. As to who was in Ohio and when it remains a big mstery. I read where a farmer was
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 18, 2009
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        Hi Mike
          Your great post and information sharing keep us all on our toes. As to who was in Ohio and when it remains a big mstery. I read where a farmer was falling a tree and found a bronze ax which dated before Columbus as indicated on the rings in the tree that grew after the ax was left behind.
          As you are aware I am still on the search for the Ohio Rock (Sun dial mold?) This 32 year search has me currently in Newport R.I. investigating the Newport Tower. I will be in the museum of local history managed by the Historical Society today for a viewing of the artifacts found in a 1948 dig. If you like I will cross post my daily findings, however many on the site may not understand the beginning of this story.
        William

        --- On Thu, 6/18/09, mike white <infoplz@...> wrote:

        From: mike white <infoplz@...>
        Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] ohio
        To: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 12:30 AM

         
        Title: Early history of Cleveland, Ohio : including papers and other matter relating to the adjacent country ; with biographical notices of the pioneers and surveyors /
        Author: Whittlesey, Charles, 1808-1886.
         
           this text leads me to think that the eries or cat tribe located south of lake erie used the crude forts in defence from the iroquois.  the latter tribe used their canoes as scaling ladders to overcome the pickets atop the forts, and destroyed the eries.  it doesnt prove the eries built the forts, but they and white settlers were known to resort to them for defence. 
          
         
            had the vikings not hid from conversion and church tithes, norway would have had claim to many states from new england thru minn.  masses came here, and perhaps survived up to 400 years, and may have been destroyed by the souix. 
            tree ring dating was known and used by 1800 in ohio. 
            evan's early map shows petroleum on the ohio near yellow creek. 
           im bothered by one thing, the era the giants occupied ohio.  most of the early accounts assumed the giants lived there far back in time, and the eries moved in much later.  yet the cemetery of the giants still showed depressions, where the ground settled after decay.  their burials must have been after the ice-age, when glaciers scoured northern ohio.  it was after the drift, and apparently after those several events that deposited clay over successive forests.  not knowing what caused the clay deposits, i can only guess it was the various glaciers, or floods that followed from debris damming the niagra.  in either case, those giants must have lived at conneaut ohio after 6000 bce.  had it been longer, deposits of soil from space would have filled in the depressions, and added numerous feet of fill above them.  this is a startling conclusion, but if im in error, the date would be more recent, not older.  its possible that the erie indians were direct descendants of the giants.  a remnant of that drive survived the massacre, and early accounts placed them west of the mississippi river.  other accounts stated that the erie people were offshoots of the iroqouis nation, and spoke a variant of the same language.  we normally think the algonquin were the earliest people, but cayce said the iroquois spoke a language closest to atlantean, which tends to place them among the first nations in america.  we may need to allow 12,000 years or more for several eastern tribes, like the iroquois, lenape, and the creek.  many of the eastern states show no indication of having been covered by the sea for at least 50,000 years.  being the most stable lands of the usa, they should have had the earliest cultures, along with the colorado plateau.
         
        imho
        mike
         
         
      • mike white
        we all have our opinions, as it should be. from cayce, im led to believe that rhode island was the vinland of the vikings. thru deduction, the newport tower
        Message 3 of 17 , Jun 18, 2009
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             we all have our opinions, as it should be.  from cayce, im led to believe that rhode island was the vinland of the vikings.  thru deduction, the newport tower may have been the grain shed spotted by thorvald, which scared him into thinking other europeans were settled there before the vikings.  i think the '78 study revealed that the structure had leanto shed roofs attached originally, in keeping with what thorvald saw.  as to who built the tower, and when, we may never know.  as a young sailor, i was in newport, but wasnt aware of the tower until later, to my regret.  maybe the romans built it. 
             thanks for the kind words, william.  so many mysteries to explore, but so little time and money.  maybe we can share a project some day.  your find was on a hill so they could get draft for a furnace i believe.  i tend to think the item molded was used on a watercraft - but you could be right, afterall you have studied it far longer than i.  it may be fruitful to examine roman boat designs for a part like it, or a similar astronomical tool. its unknown where the legions garrisoned in england fled to after the fall of rome, and compelling reason to think america.  much suggests they reached penn, and may have boated the ohio down from pittsburg. 
           
          mike
           
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 8:15 AM
          Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] ohio

          Hi Mike
            Your great post and information sharing keep us all on our toes. As to who was in Ohio and when it remains a big mstery. I read where a farmer was falling a tree and found a bronze ax which dated before Columbus as indicated on the rings in the tree that grew after the ax was left behind.
            As you are aware I am still on the search for the Ohio Rock (Sun dial mold?) This 32 year search has me currently in Newport R.I. investigating the Newport Tower. I will be in the museum of local history managed by the Historical Society today for a viewing of the artifacts found in a 1948 dig. If you like I will cross post my daily findings, however many on the site may not understand the beginning of this story.
          William

          --- On Thu, 6/18/09, mike white <infoplz@verizon. net> wrote:

          From: mike white <infoplz@verizon. net>
          Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_ Inscriptions] ohio
          To: Precolumbian_ Inscriptions@ yahoogroups. com
          Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 12:30 AM

           
          Title: Early history of Cleveland, Ohio : including papers and other matter relating to the adjacent country ; with biographical notices of the pioneers and surveyors /
          Author: Whittlesey, Charles, 1808-1886.
           
             this text leads me to think that the eries or cat tribe located south of lake erie used the crude forts in defence from the iroquois.  the latter tribe used their canoes as scaling ladders to overcome the pickets atop the forts, and destroyed the eries.  it doesnt prove the eries built the forts, but they and white settlers were known to resort to them for defence. 
            
           
              had the vikings not hid from conversion and church tithes, norway would have had claim to many states from new england thru minn.  masses came here, and perhaps survived up to 400 years, and may have been destroyed by the souix. 
              tree ring dating was known and used by 1800 in ohio. 
              evan's early map shows petroleum on the ohio near yellow creek. 
             im bothered by one thing, the era the giants occupied ohio.  most of the early accounts assumed the giants lived there far back in time, and the eries moved in much later.  yet the cemetery of the giants still showed depressions, where the ground settled after decay.  their burials must have been after the ice-age, when glaciers scoured northern ohio.  it was after the drift, and apparently after those several events that deposited clay over successive forests.  not knowing what caused the clay deposits, i can only guess it was the various glaciers, or floods that followed from debris damming the niagra.  in either case, those giants must have lived at conneaut ohio after 6000 bce.  had it been longer, deposits of soil from space would have filled in the depressions, and added numerous feet of fill above them.  this is a startling conclusion, but if im in error, the date would be more recent, not older.  its possible that the erie indians were direct descendants of the giants.  a remnant of that drive survived the massacre, and early accounts placed them west of the mississippi river.  other accounts stated that the erie people were offshoots of the iroqouis nation, and spoke a variant of the same language.  we normally think the algonquin were the earliest people, but cayce said the iroquois spoke a language closest to atlantean, which tends to place them among the first nations in america.  we may need to allow 12,000 years or more for several eastern tribes, like the iroquois, lenape, and the creek.  many of the eastern states show no indication of having been covered by the sea for at least 50,000 years.  being the most stable lands of the usa, they should have had the earliest cultures, along with the colorado plateau.
           
          imho
          mike
           
           

        • mike white
          repost from ancient-mysteries you asked where the giants came from, in a general sense, we are in denial, giants were our ancestors. the change from huge to
          Message 4 of 17 , Jun 18, 2009
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            repost from ancient-mysteries
             
               you asked where the giants came from, in a general sense, we are in denial, giants were our ancestors.  the change from huge to our new average may have happened further back for most of us, than these people of early ohio.  it may have been near the time of joshua that they lived.  as then, their cemetery has normal sized and giants buried side by side.  perhaps around 5500 bce, there were many giants still alive, while modern man had assumed smaller proportion.  by 1500 bce the change in size may have been complete globally. 
             
            mike
            ps
               before 10,000 bce, giants were the norm, by 1000 bce only an odd vestige of giants existed, imho.  so the cemetery in ohio likely dates between 5500 bce and 1500 bce. 
             
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 12:30 AM
            Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] ohio

             
            Title: Early history of Cleveland, Ohio : including papers and other matter relating to the adjacent country ; with biographical notices of the pioneers and surveyors /
            Author: Whittlesey, Charles, 1808-1886.
             
               this text leads me to think that the eries or cat tribe located south of lake erie used the crude forts in defence from the iroquois.  the latter tribe used their canoes as scaling ladders to overcome the pickets atop the forts, and destroyed the eries.  it doesnt prove the eries built the forts, but they and white settlers were known to resort to them for defence. 
              
             
                had the vikings not hid from conversion and church tithes, norway would have had claim to many states from new england thru minn.  masses came here, and perhaps survived up to 400 years, and may have been destroyed by the souix. 
                tree ring dating was known and used by 1800 in ohio. 
                evan's early map shows petroleum on the ohio near yellow creek. 
               im bothered by one thing, the era the giants occupied ohio.  most of the early accounts assumed the giants lived there far back in time, and the eries moved in much later.  yet the cemetery of the giants still showed depressions, where the ground settled after decay.  their burials must have been after the ice-age, when glaciers scoured northern ohio.  it was after the drift, and apparently after those several events that deposited clay over successive forests.  not knowing what caused the clay deposits, i can only guess it was the various glaciers, or floods that followed from debris damming the niagra.  in either case, those giants must have lived at conneaut ohio after 6000 bce.  had it been longer, deposits of soil from space would have filled in the depressions, and added numerous feet of fill above them.  this is a startling conclusion, but if im in error, the date would be more recent, not older.  its possible that the erie indians were direct descendants of the giants.  a remnant of that drive survived the massacre, and early accounts placed them west of the mississippi river.  other accounts stated that the erie people were offshoots of the iroqouis nation, and spoke a variant of the same language.  we normally think the algonquin were the earliest people, but cayce said the iroquois spoke a language closest to atlantean, which tends to place them among the first nations in america.  we may need to allow 12,000 years or more for several eastern tribes, like the iroquois, lenape, and the creek.  many of the eastern states show no indication of having been covered by the sea for at least 50,000 years.  being the most stable lands of the usa, they should have had the earliest cultures, along with the colorado plateau.
             
            imho
            mike
             
             

          • william smith
            Hi Mike   I agree that many opinions have been made about the Newport Tower and I am sure many more will be made in the future as new technology is used for
            Message 5 of 17 , Jun 18, 2009
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              Hi Mike
                I agree that many opinions have been made about the Newport Tower and I am sure many more will be made in the future as new technology is used for dating and proper use of the web. I gave a short talk last fall in RI and voiced my opinion on the tower's intent. Some say that it is a Mill built by Bennedict Arnold. Some say it is a church, lighthouse or just an early land claim marker. When I told them I felt the tower had multiple functions of which many they were not aware of I thought I would be banned from the state.
                I spent the most part of the day, today viewing some of the more than 2000 artifacts found in the Godfrey dig in 1948 I am more convinced that it is what I suggested last fall. In these artifacts viewed today (meat cleaver, pipe stems, pipe bowls, modern finger rings, toy lead soldier, gun flint, glass pottery, pocket knife, piece of oil jar, buttons of shell and bone, iron tools, clay marbles, glass marbles, brass keyhole plate, thimbal,  sizzors, four knives with bone handles,bone handle fork, chalk, medallion with lady of ?, fish hook large with barb, porciline doll face, iron wedge, iron nails various sizes, small fish hook, whale caubal vertabra bone, ox bone,). I did not find any thing that would have been out of place in a 500 year old cod fish processing smokehouse.
                The Newport Tower is built with dimensions that use the Scotish EL unit of measure. The south window aligns on a true north south line with the builders mark on the top of the tower on the north outer wall. His mark is a small triangle stone pionting up and was used many times by the templers and masons in building structures.
                My theory is that the Newport Tower was built by the Portuguese to function as a base station for their lunar compass and a cod fish processing three story smoke house for preserving cod fish to be sold in Europe. It was built by orders from Jose Cort real in 1472. The actual completion was in 1501 by Micheal Cort real (Son of Jose). Micheal was looking for his brother Jasper who waas lost in 1500. Micheal also did not return to Europe because of conflict with the native Americans in 1511 as identified on Dighton Rock. The Native Americans chased the Cort reals out of Newport in 1511 and into New Hampshere where they lost their stone (Mystery Stone) from their loadstone compass, they then went to New York where they left the remains of the loadstone compass and other cartographor tools in a cave, from New York they went on the old indian trail to the head waters of the Ohio. On their way down the Ohio they stopped long enough to bury some of their burdon and mark its position with a time stone (Ohio Rock). They went on to the falls of the Ohio where they may have met their fate near Louiville.
                 I have a lot more to tell, however much more testing has to be completed to prove my theorys. A good example of one planned test is to answer the question as to why one spot on the ground outside of the tower will not grow vegitation. My theory is this is where the smoked felletts of cod packed in oak barrels with salt were placed for adding fresh water to seal the barrels. The salt alone will not kill the soil for 500 years, however since the fish was dipped in boiling cod liver oil before smoking to seal the meat, some of this oil also leaked from the barrels before they were water tight. The cod liver oil soaked into the ground holding the salt toward the surface, contaminating it forever.
                As I told you years ago I would post any research I felt important about the Ohio Rock I will continue to advise your group. I will be going to Concord Friday to view the Mystery Stone and show a reproduction of the same with the loadstone in place to share this information with the musium curator.
                The Newport tower has a limited life due to mother nature, we all need to  dig fast and hard in order to obtain federal funding to preserve it for our grandchildren.
              excuse the miss-spelled words, sitting in a motel in Newport and watching the rain outside makes the field work very difficult.
              William Smith 

              --- On Thu, 6/18/09, mike white <infoplz@...> wrote:

              From: mike white <infoplz@...>
              Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] ohio
              To: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 8:51 AM

               
                 we all have our opinions, as it should be.  from cayce, im led to believe that rhode island was the vinland of the vikings.  thru deduction, the newport tower may have been the grain shed spotted by thorvald, which scared him into thinking other europeans were settled there before the vikings.  i think the '78 study revealed that the structure had leanto shed roofs attached originally, in keeping with what thorvald saw.  as to who built the tower, and when, we may never know.  as a young sailor, i was in newport, but wasnt aware of the tower until later, to my regret.  maybe the romans built it. 
                 thanks for the kind words, william.  so many mysteries to explore, but so little time and money.  maybe we can share a project some day.  your find was on a hill so they could get draft for a furnace i believe.  i tend to think the item molded was used on a watercraft - but you could be right, afterall you have studied it far longer than i.  it may be fruitful to examine roman boat designs for a part like it, or a similar astronomical tool. its unknown where the legions garrisoned in england fled to after the fall of rome, and compelling reason to think america.  much suggests they reached penn, and may have boated the ohio down from pittsburg. 
               
              mike
               
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 8:15 AM
              Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_ Inscriptions] ohio

              Hi Mike
                Your great post and information sharing keep us all on our toes. As to who was in Ohio and when it remains a big mstery. I read where a farmer was falling a tree and found a bronze ax which dated before Columbus as indicated on the rings in the tree that grew after the ax was left behind.
                As you are aware I am still on the search for the Ohio Rock (Sun dial mold?) This 32 year search has me currently in Newport R.I. investigating the Newport Tower. I will be in the museum of local history managed by the Historical Society today for a viewing of the artifacts found in a 1948 dig. If you like I will cross post my daily findings, however many on the site may not understand the beginning of this story.
              William

              --- On Thu, 6/18/09, mike white <infoplz@verizon. net> wrote:

              From: mike white <infoplz@verizon. net>
              Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_ Inscriptions] ohio
              To: Precolumbian_ Inscriptions@ yahoogroups. com
              Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 12:30 AM

               
              Title: Early history of Cleveland, Ohio : including papers and other matter relating to the adjacent country ; with biographical notices of the pioneers and surveyors /
              Author: Whittlesey, Charles, 1808-1886.
               
                 this text leads me to think that the eries or cat tribe located south of lake erie used the crude forts in defence from the iroquois.  the latter tribe used their canoes as scaling ladders to overcome the pickets atop the forts, and destroyed the eries.  it doesnt prove the eries built the forts, but they and white settlers were known to resort to them for defence. 
                
               
                  had the vikings not hid from conversion and church tithes, norway would have had claim to many states from new england thru minn.  masses came here, and perhaps survived up to 400 years, and may have been destroyed by the souix. 
                  tree ring dating was known and used by 1800 in ohio. 
                  evan's early map shows petroleum on the ohio near yellow creek. 
                 im bothered by one thing, the era the giants occupied ohio.  most of the early accounts assumed the giants lived there far back in time, and the eries moved in much later.  yet the cemetery of the giants still showed depressions, where the ground settled after decay.  their burials must have been after the ice-age, when glaciers scoured northern ohio.  it was after the drift, and apparently after those several events that deposited clay over successive forests.  not knowing what caused the clay deposits, i can only guess it was the various glaciers, or floods that followed from debris damming the niagra.  in either case, those giants must have lived at conneaut ohio after 6000 bce.  had it been longer, deposits of soil from space would have filled in the depressions, and added numerous feet of fill above them.  this is a startling conclusion, but if im in error, the date would be more recent, not older.  its possible that the erie indians were direct descendants of the giants.  a remnant of that drive survived the massacre, and early accounts placed them west of the mississippi river.  other accounts stated that the erie people were offshoots of the iroqouis nation, and spoke a variant of the same language.  we normally think the algonquin were the earliest people, but cayce said the iroquois spoke a language closest to atlantean, which tends to place them among the first nations in america.  we may need to allow 12,000 years or more for several eastern tribes, like the iroquois, lenape, and the creek.  many of the eastern states show no indication of having been covered by the sea for at least 50,000 years.  being the most stable lands of the usa, they should have had the earliest cultures, along with the colorado plateau.
               
              imho
              mike
               
               

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