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inca lands

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  • mike white
    im rereading hiram bingham s inca lands . he wasnt a very good observer. he became obsessed with climbing mt coropuno, and overlooked petroglyphs, etc, on
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 1, 2008
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         im rereading hiram bingham's 'inca lands'. 
         he wasnt a very good observer.  he became obsessed with climbing mt coropuno, and overlooked petroglyphs, etc, on the way. 
         this is a discussion group, its awful quiet.  i had hoped for commentary and participation.  i had stated our generation is 'vain', in that they thought themselves more advanced and evolved than ancient man, and got a brief rebuttal.  unexpected, but elaborate if you wish. 
         the expedition was well-funded, and staffed, but ive yet to read any reports from the other members. 
         bingham claimed the quechua were of the brown race.  i think this was an error, he may have got that impression from a few of mixed-race.  humboldt met many in columbia who claimed to be of the white race, but were black. 
         he cited poznansky as saying that tiwanaku had been at sealevel during its early occupation, and had trapped an inland sea with the uplift.  he disagreed with that conclusion.  yet he thought montessino was one of the best historians, i agree, but was surprised he thought so. 
         a tourist would have noticed more important details of tiwanaku that bingham.  he was credited with discovering machu picchu, but it was noted on the maps of others before him. 
         he commented upon the invasion from the southeast during pachacuti's reign circa 800 ce, and said the invaders were evicted from their home territory by giants. 
         his map seems to place ollantaytambo wrong, halfway to cuzco from machu picchu. 
         montessino also thought ecuador was home to ophir, great-grandson of noah. 
       
      mike
       
       
    • jdaintira@aol.com
      In a message dated 10/1/2008 3:51:11 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, infoplz@verizon.net writes: his map seems to place ollantaytambo wrong, halfway to cuzco
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 1, 2008
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        In a message dated 10/1/2008 3:51:11 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, infoplz@... writes:
          his map seems to place ollantaytambo wrong, halfway to cuzco from machu picchu.
        In terms of his travel, that is probably correct.  Cuzco to Ollantaytambo is about 80 km, Cuzco to Machu Picchu is about 110 km, but there is no direct route from Cuzco to MP.  All "roads" lead through Ollantaytambo.    Think of it as a triangle with Ollantaytambo at the tip and what would be a direct route from Cuzco to MP as the base.  ~ JM




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      • mike white
        ok, but few maps are the same. ive seen maps that show machu picchu and ollantaytambo in opposite places as this one, some show them side by side at the end
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 1, 2008
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             ok, but few maps are the same.  ive seen maps that show machu picchu and ollantaytambo in opposite places as this one, some show them side by side at the end of the rr track. 
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 4:47 PM
          Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] inca lands

          In a message dated 10/1/2008 3:51:11 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, infoplz@verizon. net writes:
            his map seems to place ollantaytambo wrong, halfway to cuzco from machu picchu.
          In terms of his travel, that is probably correct.  Cuzco to Ollantaytambo is about 80 km, Cuzco to Machu Picchu is about 110 km, but there is no direct route from Cuzco to MP.  All "roads" lead through Ollantaytambo.    Think of it as a triangle with Ollantaytambo at the tip and what would be a direct route from Cuzco to MP as the base.  ~ JM




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        • mike white
          this word means flea town. it may seem odd that i speak of fleas so much, but like patina, much can be learned by a layman, from such things. Piquillacta i
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 2, 2008
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               this word means flea town.  it may seem odd that i speak of fleas so much, but like patina, much can be learned by a layman, from such things.
            Piquillacta
               i believe the inca came to peru circa 10,000 bce.  no doubt, readers accustomed to textbook history consider this date to be hoary with age, and exaggerated.  after i opened my mind to common sense and logic, it seems recent, when speaking of cultured man. 
               the land of peru is perhaps one of the oldest sites of human habitation still above the sea.  the inka of 10,000 bce, and the children of ophir of 25,000 bce were the newcomers. 
               the inca had a flea tax.  the poorest people were fully provided for by the benevolent inca administration, but had to contribute to society, so they had to fill a quill or thread with fleas. 
               little has been written on the quantity of fleas being an indicate of how long a site had been occupied by mankind, but it should be studied, as it can be a good relative indication of the antiquity of a site.  nobody knows how these fleas, which require clothed human hosts, could survive in an abandoned city, but they do, in a teeming multitude.  ive read capt stephens 'incidents of travel in the holy land', in which he reports laying down in a room of ancient building, and could hear and see the horde of fleas moving toward his room, rustling the leaves and grasses with their numbers. 
               sites teeming with fleas, and with heavy patina on carved stones are very ancient locales of humanity, and would be prime sites to excavate. 
               the quechua are probably of the red race.  cayce said they came south about the same time the atlantean refugees came to peru, circa 10,000 bce.  they may have centered in ecuador, with the sons of ophir.  the inca were surprised later to learn that the people of ecuador spoke quechua.  it must be that the inca had given up writing so long before that they forgot much of their own history.  the quipu may have recorded it, but nobody was actively reading the oldest achives of quipu.  our scholars had almost 500 years to learn to read quipu, but failed, and its too late now. 
               it would have been more wise to have built a gate and fortress across the narrow entry pass into the basin of cuzco, than the enormous walls of sacsayhuaman, which are of little military importance.  a small force could have kept the entire basin safe, with its fields and water supply. 
               bingham called the inca a 'brown race'.  they were white. 
               salapunco [sala=ruined punco=gate] shared the megalithic construction of ollantaytambo and sacsahuaman. 
               many ancient reports of mt serpents 25-30 ft remain unconfirmed. 
               trees could grow on the altiplano, but were over-harvested. 
               i get the idea that cultures before the inca were first to use terraces, as seen the lower urubamba valley. 
               charles weiner had heard of machu picchu in 1875 but was unable to reach it. 
               heller had discovered a small member of the kangaroo family in peru.  he also shot a dozen spectacled bears. 
               the pre-inca high culture may have extended from salapunco to deeper into the tropical region. 
               the cohoba narcotic is made from a tree found here, sniffed with a bifurcated tube. 
               bingham refers to the quechua language as quichua, same spoken in mexico. 
             
            mike
             
             
          • mike white
            at espiritu pampas they found round ruins, and very old burials in jars or cists. not sure their claim of inca pottery were valid. he quotes montesinos again,
            Message 5 of 10 , Oct 2, 2008
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                 at espiritu pampas they found round ruins, and very old burials in jars or cists.  not sure their claim of inca pottery were valid. 
                 he quotes montesinos again, of how sixty generations of amautas had ruled peru before the inca.  their dynasty ended circa 800 ce when they were invaded from the southeast.  [ i think these were also inca, merely named after their name for teacher or wise men. ]  cuzco was sacked by the invaders.  he said writing was invented and later forbidden during the reign of pachacuti 7 in circa 800 ce.  [ very unlikely]   he dates the first manco capac to 1300 ce. 
                 two mules died of bites from the fer-de-lance near machu picchu. 
                
              end
               
               
              History of the Incas
              By Pedro Sarmiento de Gamboa,
               
                 author starts with a history of atlantis.  he wrongly interprets plato's words.  instead of libya and asia, he assumes all of asia and all of africa, for the area of atlantis.  then figures south america was part of atlantis. 
                 he states noah was a giant.  he was well-read, but was careful to not offend the church. 
                 he says there were 6 floods. 
                 he had ulysses founding lisbon, before crossing the atlantic to people mexico with greeks. 
               
              mike
               
               
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