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  • mike white
    i spent some time with google earth tonight. we are fortunate to be able to explore vast areas in the comfort of our homes. there is an area ene of cuzco that
    Message 1 of 14 , Aug 5, 2008
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         i spent some time with google earth tonight.  we are fortunate to be able to explore vast areas in the comfort of our homes.
         there is an area ene of cuzco that is highlighted in a square.  amid that section is a round blackish circle at 13 09 42.23s    71 33 11.46w.  zoom in on it, and at 11,193 ft there is what looks like a plateau with buildings on it.  very interesting. 
         i note how close the amazon comes to trujillo.  makes one wonder why the ancients located on the arid coast, when only a narrow range separated them from low fertile lands. 
         while flying over giza and cairo, i noted the ancient surveyed fields far to the west.  these were oriented northeast-southwest, about 30 degrees off our north.  its peculiar that ancient high cultures in the americas favored the same orientation, as if the earth had been at that position stable long enough for civilization to flourish in egypt and the americas.  i wonder when that poleshift occurred, perhaps 10,000 bce. 
       
      mike
       
       
    • jdaintira@aol.com
      In a message dated 8/5/2008 11:54:40 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, infoplz@verizon.net writes: amid that section is a round blackish circle at 13 09 42.23s
      Message 2 of 14 , Aug 6, 2008
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        In a message dated 8/5/2008 11:54:40 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, infoplz@... writes:
        amid that section is a round blackish circle at 13 09 42.23s  
         
        I am unable to work with Google Earth, but I am guessing that you may be looking at Moray, which has three large circular depressions, one quite deep. It is also in the general direction you describe.
         
         
        This is quite close to the town of Salinas where the salt beds are located on the cliffs overlooking the Urubamba River and the Sacred Valley.
         
        On one of my trips we hiked across the descending salt pools and then down the hills to the river below.
         
        It is my belief that these were/are sacred ball courts. While most Meso American ball courts are rectangular, there are other circular ones on the far north Peruvian coast as well as at some of the Anasazi ruins in northern AZ.
         
        The Trujillo ruins (Moche and Chimu), like the other ancient civilizations along the Peruvian coast, were built in a river valley.
         
        While most of the water from the Andes flows east and becomes a part of the Amazon basin, there are a few rivers to the Pacific.
         
        This provided wonderful arable land that could be easily irrigated as well as both Ocean and river fish, and there was a lively trade with the mountain people for other food stuffs that came from the jungle areas.
         
        Baring natural disasters, such as heavy rains or earthquakes, these river civilizations were far easier to build/maintain and easily flourished, allowing for the development of a large artisan class.
         
        Even with the ingenious terraced agriculture of the high mountain areas, the combination of natural disasters, weather extremes, and battling the constant jungle growth makes the Amazon area far more difficult to sustain. 
         
        It is interesting that the Pyramid of the Sun at Teotihuacan has the same footprint and orientation, slightly off true north, as that found at the Great Pyramid at Giza.(as per Sitchen)  And Graham Hancock is also claiming this for other ancient sites such as at Ankor Wat, etc.
         
        ~Judith Marie




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      • mike white
        no its far to the east of moray, in an uninhabited mountain plateau, with nothing nearby. its either bad pixels on resolution, or possibly an important find.
        Message 3 of 14 , Aug 6, 2008
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             no its far to the east of moray, in an uninhabited mountain plateau, with nothing nearby.  its either bad pixels on resolution, or possibly an important find.  i printed the enlargement, but dont see how to send it as an image, without using a flatbed scanner.  it appears to be large intricate buildings with courtyards.  it may have a moat.  no roads, paths, or rivers near it.  i hope others will use the info i gave to take a look.  i was able to return to it ok.  its looks impregnable, like on an accropolis.  maybe i can scan and send it from the pc in my study, that has a flatbed. 
           
          mike
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 3:28 AM
          Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] google earth

          In a message dated 8/5/2008 11:54:40 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, infoplz@verizon. net writes:
          amid that section is a round blackish circle at 13 09 42.23s  
           
          I am unable to work with Google Earth, but I am guessing that you may be looking at Moray, which has three large circular depressions, one quite deep. It is also in the general direction you describe.
           
           
          This is quite close to the town of Salinas where the salt beds are located on the cliffs overlooking the Urubamba River and the Sacred Valley.
           
          On one of my trips we hiked across the descending salt pools and then down the hills to the river below.
           
          It is my belief that these were/are sacred ball courts. While most Meso American ball courts are rectangular, there are other circular ones on the far north Peruvian coast as well as at some of the Anasazi ruins in northern AZ.
           
          The Trujillo ruins (Moche and Chimu), like the other ancient civilizations along the Peruvian coast, were built in a river valley.
           
          While most of the water from the Andes flows east and becomes a part of the Amazon basin, there are a few rivers to the Pacific.
           
          This provided wonderful arable land that could be easily irrigated as well as both Ocean and river fish, and there was a lively trade with the mountain people for other food stuffs that came from the jungle areas.
           
          Baring natural disasters, such as heavy rains or earthquakes, these river civilizations were far easier to build/maintain and easily flourished, allowing for the development of a large artisan class.
           
          Even with the ingenious terraced agriculture of the high mountain areas, the combination of natural disasters, weather extremes, and battling the constant jungle growth makes the Amazon area far more difficult to sustain. 
           
          It is interesting that the Pyramid of the Sun at Teotihuacan has the same footprint and orientation, slightly off true north, as that found at the Great Pyramid at Giza.(as per Sitchen)  And Graham Hancock is also claiming this for other ancient sites such as at Ankor Wat, etc.
           
          ~Judith Marie




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        • jdaintira@aol.com
          In a message dated 8/6/2008 1:53:06 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, infoplz@verizon.net writes: no its far to the east of moray, in an uninhabited mountain
          Message 4 of 14 , Aug 6, 2008
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            In a message dated 8/6/2008 1:53:06 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, infoplz@... writes:
            no its far to the east of moray, in an uninhabited mountain plateau, with nothing nearby. 
            I so wish that I could get Google Earth to work for me.  It took so long to download and then no luck working with it at all.  ~ JM




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          • mike white
            i think the old scanner needs cleaning, but i hope you can discern the details i see. mike ... From: jdaintira@aol.com To:
            Message 5 of 14 , Aug 6, 2008
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                 i think the old scanner needs cleaning, but i hope you can discern the details i see. 
               
              mike
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 5:04 AM
              Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] google earth

              In a message dated 8/6/2008 1:53:06 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, infoplz@verizon. net writes:
              no its far to the east of moray, in an uninhabited mountain plateau, with nothing nearby. 
              I so wish that I could get Google Earth to work for me.  It took so long to download and then no luck working with it at all.  ~ JM




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            • mike white
              it could be the lost greater temple of the sun, that cayce spoke of. he said it had much gold and silver, and had proofs of atlantis! i should be allowed the
              Message 6 of 14 , Aug 6, 2008
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                   it could be the lost greater temple of the sun, that cayce spoke of.  he said it had much gold and silver, and had proofs of atlantis!  i should be allowed the first helicopter flight in, if its the real thing, that it appears to be.  the wide flight of stairs on the lower left could indicate that it is a temple.  it that is indeed what it looks like. 
                   anyone else see these things? 
                 
                mike
                 
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 5:42 AM
                Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] google earth

                 
                   i think the old scanner needs cleaning, but i hope you can discern the details i see. 
                 
                mike
                 
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 5:04 AM
                Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_ Inscriptions] google earth

                In a message dated 8/6/2008 1:53:06 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, infoplz@verizon. net writes:
                no its far to the east of moray, in an uninhabited mountain plateau, with nothing nearby. 
                I so wish that I could get Google Earth to work for me.  It took so long to download and then no luck working with it at all.  ~ JM




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              • mike white
                its about 40 miles northeast of cuzco, and only about 2.5 miles of steep trail off a road. luckily the image was taken during andean summer, or it couldn t
                Message 7 of 14 , Aug 6, 2008
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                      its about 40 miles northeast of cuzco, and only about 2.5 miles of steep trail off a road.  luckily the image was taken during andean summer, or it couldn't have been seen.  the inca could have followed dried river gorges fairly direct from cuzco.  it may be a fortress, based on its strategic location.  after measuring distances, its possible that its a modern building.  some people like isolation and privacy.  ive never seen such crooked roads as they have near this location, it may be the infamous death road.  one probably could not find a parking place along that road.  a hiker would need to be dropped off, and picked up later.  it would be a wonderful excursion to investigate this site. 
                   
                  mike
                   
                   
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 6:04 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] google earth

                   
                     it could be the lost greater temple of the sun, that cayce spoke of.  he said it had much gold and silver, and had proofs of atlantis!  i should be allowed the first helicopter flight in, if its the real thing, that it appears to be.  the wide flight of stairs on the lower left could indicate that it is a temple.  it that is indeed what it looks like. 
                     anyone else see these things? 
                   
                  mike
                   
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 5:42 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_ Inscriptions] google earth

                   
                     i think the old scanner needs cleaning, but i hope you can discern the details i see. 
                   
                  mike
                   
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 5:04 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_ Inscriptions] google earth

                  In a message dated 8/6/2008 1:53:06 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, infoplz@verizon. net writes:
                  no its far to the east of moray, in an uninhabited mountain plateau, with nothing nearby. 
                  I so wish that I could get Google Earth to work for me.  It took so long to download and then no luck working with it at all.  ~ JM




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                  No virus found in this incoming message.
                  Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com 
                  Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1592 - Release Date: 8/5/2008 6:03 AM
                  

                  No virus found in this incoming message.
                  Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com 
                  Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1592 - Release Date: 8/5/2008 6:03 AM
                  

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                • jdaintira@aol.com
                  In a message dated 8/6/2008 3:02:40 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, infoplz@verizon.net writes: the wide flight of stairs on the lower left could indicate
                  Message 8 of 14 , Aug 6, 2008
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                    In a message dated 8/6/2008 3:02:40 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, infoplz@... writes:
                    the wide flight of stairs on the lower left could indicate that it is a temple.  it that is indeed what it looks like. 
                       anyone else see these things? 
                    Not really.  It is so hard to tell detail with digital photos as they break down into geometric shapes.
                     
                    It reminded me of an impact crater, but I agree that it would be worth flying into via helicopter.
                     
                    ~JM




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                  • mike white
                    when dealing with the unknown, anything is possible. i dont think its blur from poor resolution, since the shapes form from far above, and not just at maximum
                    Message 9 of 14 , Aug 6, 2008
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                         when dealing with the unknown, anything is possible.  i dont think its blur from poor resolution, since the shapes form from far above, and not just at maximum zoom.  i did a study of elevations.  the features are low, and may be below surface.  the whole complex is blackened, as if burned.  not much more can be determined, without going to the site to see firsthand.  its proximity to a road means nothing, because many great ruins were discovered near towns, in which none of the population had ever seen or heard about.  these features are so low that they probably could not be seen until directly upon them. 
                         certain things point to an impact.  the large clearing, the blackened look, its round shape, but the rectangular shapes upon it are hard to explain, unless a ufo went down. 
                       
                      mike
                       
                       
                       
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 1:16 PM
                      Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] google earth

                      In a message dated 8/6/2008 3:02:40 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, infoplz@verizon. net writes:
                      the wide flight of stairs on the lower left could indicate that it is a temple.  it that is indeed what it looks like. 
                         anyone else see these things? 
                      Not really.  It is so hard to tell detail with digital photos as they break down into geometric shapes.
                       
                      It reminded me of an impact crater, but I agree that it would be worth flying into via helicopter.
                       
                      ~JM




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                    • mike white
                      i tilted the image to view it horizontally, no features show above the surface, but neither do the trees. so it begins to look more like a crater, or sunken
                      Message 10 of 14 , Aug 6, 2008
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                           i tilted the image to view it horizontally, no features show above the surface, but neither do the trees.  so it begins to look more like a crater, or sunken temple.   the crater measures about 170 ft diameter, and the surface features do not appear leveled.  the square is about 50 ft per side.  the larger rectangle about 30 ft by 60 ft. 
                           the easiest route up is along a creek gorge, rising 3500 ft in 2.5 miles, requiring a team with canyoneering experience. 
                           a meteorite that size could be valuable.  i may pass my findings to the appropriate people.  an interesting diversion, that demonstrates what might be accomplished by this method. 
                         
                        mike
                         
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:19 PM
                        Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] google earth

                         
                           when dealing with the unknown, anything is possible.  i dont think its blur from poor resolution, since the shapes form from far above, and not just at maximum zoom.  i did a study of elevations.  the features are low, and may be below surface.  the whole complex is blackened, as if burned.  not much more can be determined, without going to the site to see firsthand.  its proximity to a road means nothing, because many great ruins were discovered near towns, in which none of the population had ever seen or heard about.  these features are so low that they probably could not be seen until directly upon them. 
                           certain things point to an impact.  the large clearing, the blackened look, its round shape, but the rectangular shapes upon it are hard to explain, unless a ufo went down. 
                         
                        mike
                         
                         
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 1:16 PM
                        Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_ Inscriptions] google earth

                        In a message dated 8/6/2008 3:02:40 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, infoplz@verizon. net writes:
                        the wide flight of stairs on the lower left could indicate that it is a temple.  it that is indeed what it looks like. 
                           anyone else see these things? 
                        Not really.  It is so hard to tell detail with digital photos as they break down into geometric shapes.
                         
                        It reminded me of an impact crater, but I agree that it would be worth flying into via helicopter.
                         
                        ~JM




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                      • michael white
                        It is a 2 day bus ride from Trujillo to Yurimaguas on the Ucayali. Tri-Frontier to Peru coast overland google map  Amazonas, San Martín, Loreto - CTN -
                        Message 11 of 14 , Aug 7, 2008
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                          It is a 2 day bus ride from Trujillo to Yurimaguas on the Ucayali.


                          Kind regards from Michael White, Clara Bravo & Delicia Andrés.
                          Cahuide 495 (Opposite Huayna Capac 542)
                          Urb. Santa María, Trujillo, Peru.
                          Tel +51 44 299997/243347/949662710/949607119
                          http://www.xanga.com/TrujilloPeru
                          http://communities.msn.com/TrujilloPeru/pictures
                          microbewhite@...

                          --- On Wed, 8/6/08, mike white <infoplz@...> wrote:
                          From: mike white <infoplz@...>
                          Subject: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] google earth
                          To: Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 2:56 AM

                           
                             i spent some time with google earth tonight.  we are fortunate to be able to explore vast areas in the comfort of our homes.
                             there is an area ene of cuzco that is highlighted in a square.  amid that section is a round blackish circle at 13 09 42.23s    71 33 11.46w.  zoom in on it, and at 11,193 ft there is what looks like a plateau with buildings on it.  very interesting. 
                             i note how close the amazon comes to trujillo.  makes one wonder why the ancients located on the arid coast, when only a narrow range separated them from low fertile lands. 
                             while flying over giza and cairo, i noted the ancient surveyed fields far to the west.  these were oriented northeast-southwest , about 30 degrees off our north.  its peculiar that ancient high cultures in the americas favored the same orientation, as if the earth had been at that position stable long enough for civilization to flourish in egypt and the americas.  i wonder when that poleshift occurred, perhaps 10,000 bce. 
                           
                          mike
                           
                           

                        • mike white
                          in the mountains, direct and by road, are far different. i wasnt indicating the frontier of the amazon, just the well-watered low lands east of trujillo,
                          Message 12 of 14 , Aug 8, 2008
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                               in the mountains, direct and by road, are far different.   i wasnt indicating the frontier of the amazon, just the well-watered low lands east of trujillo, across the cordillero. 
                               i appreciate your posting.  it seems to show which countries have developed roads.  peru and bolivia lag their neighbors.  i was amazed that brasil has penetrated the jungle and matto grosso so far. 
                             
                            mike
                             
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 9:34 PM
                            Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] google earth

                            It is a 2 day bus ride from Trujillo to Yurimaguas on the Ucayali.


                            Kind regards from Michael White, Clara Bravo & Delicia Andrés.
                            Cahuide 495 (Opposite Huayna Capac 542)
                            Urb. Santa María, Trujillo, Peru.
                            Tel +51 44 299997/243347/ 949662710/ 949607119
                            http://www.xanga. com/TrujilloPeru
                            http://communities. msn.com/Trujillo Peru/pictures
                            microbewhite@ yahoo.com

                            --- On Wed, 8/6/08, mike white <infoplz@verizon. net> wrote:
                            From: mike white <infoplz@verizon. net>
                            Subject: [Precolumbian_ Inscriptions] google earth
                            To: Precolumbian_ Inscriptions@ yahoogroups. com
                            Date: Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 2:56 AM

                             
                               i spent some time with google earth tonight.  we are fortunate to be able to explore vast areas in the comfort of our homes.
                               there is an area ene of cuzco that is highlighted in a square.  amid that section is a round blackish circle at 13 09 42.23s    71 33 11.46w.  zoom in on it, and at 11,193 ft there is what looks like a plateau with buildings on it.  very interesting. 
                               i note how close the amazon comes to trujillo.  makes one wonder why the ancients located on the arid coast, when only a narrow range separated them from low fertile lands. 
                               while flying over giza and cairo, i noted the ancient surveyed fields far to the west.  these were oriented northeast-southwest , about 30 degrees off our north.  its peculiar that ancient high cultures in the americas favored the same orientation, as if the earth had been at that position stable long enough for civilization to flourish in egypt and the americas.  i wonder when that poleshift occurred, perhaps 10,000 bce. 
                             
                            mike
                             
                             

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                          • bigalemc2
                            Mike - Your speculation that the angular position being similar had to do with a pole shift does not carry water, I don t think. Why? Because if that 30
                            Message 13 of 14 , Aug 9, 2008
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                              Mike -

                              Your speculation that the angular position being similar had to do with a pole shift does not carry water, I don't think.  Why?

                              Because if that 30 degrees off our north was the alignment in Egypt, then the alignment over in the Americas could NOT have been the same, not on a spherical earth.  As one travels west around the old equator, the current equator does NOT keep the same angular relationship.

                              Here is my best reconstruction:

                              Using Hapgood's Hudson Bay North Pole at 60N 83W, at the longitude of Egypt, the Equator would have passed the current Equator at roughly the island of Sao Tome, off the west coast of Africa near Gabon and Equatorial Guinea, at about 0N 7E .   If pole shifts actually did occur (and I am one who does think they did), then the old Equator must intersect the new one at 2 places.   As depicted in the book The H.A.B. Theory, this point would have been one of the 'pivot points' for the pole shift, and would have seen no shifting, but only rotation.  At 180 to the west at 0N 183W, the other pivot point, in the middle of the western Pacific, also would have seen only rotation.

                              Those two places must be 90 degrees around from the line of maximum movement.  Hapgood determined that the old pole was at 60N, so if the new pole is at 90N, then there was 30 degrees of movement along this line.  The line of maximum movement is a great circle passing through both the old pole and new pole.  This line would be the worst impacted by the shift, seeing the greatest 'sloshing' of water onto the continents, etc.  if the old pole was at Hapgood's Hudson Bay position and the NEW one is at our present pole position, then the maximum line ran through Hudson Bay, due north to the new pole position.  But the crustal MOVEMENT along that line was SOUTHWARD (in the Americas), as the new pole rushed to the position that the Hudson Bay pole had previously occupied.

                              That line would have gone close to Detroit, Cincinnati, Atlanta, and Tampa, down past Havana and San Jose, Costa Rica, with all of those diving straight southward by about 30 degrees.  On that side of the globe the water would seem to have come from the south (as the land slid under the water) and inundated everything from that direction.  In  the eastern hemisphere the line would have gone through Siberia, western Mongolia, and down through Burma (Myanmar) toward Rangoon.  This line precisely includes the region of the most severe distortion of the Himalayas, where there is a thrusted region east of Tibet where the Indian plate surged northward into China, under the Asian plate.

                              That would have put the alignment in Egypt different than you describe - about 30 degrees SOUTH of due east, as we now reckon.  At Egypt's that longitude THEN, Egypt's current east was then pointing about 30 degrees south of east

                              Now, if we follow that Equator to the west, what do we get when we get into the Americas?

                              In Peru, their pre-shift east would have been almost the same as it is now, maybe 3 to 5 degrees south of the current east direction.

                              Further north, the Mayan's pre-shift east would have been about 5 degrees south of the current WEST direction.

                              For the Aztecs, further west yet, their pre-shift east would have been about 10 degrees south of the current WEST position.

                              All of this is due to the earth being a sphere.

                              For those who learned that the earth is not a sphere, but is an oblate spheroid, if they will sit down and do the math, the earth is more perfectly spherical than a billiard ball.  Trust me, I have done the math.  So, when I call it a sphere, I do mean it.  Of course it is not a perfect sphere.  But when even a billiard ball is less perfect a sphere, what does a planet have to do to get some respect?

                              But the bottom line here is that, if Hapgood's Hudson Bay North Pole is correct, then what you are seeing, Mike, is not anything to do with the pre-shift polar alignment.  But even if it did on one of the locations, it would not be able to keep that angular juxtaposition at the other.

                              For all these reasons, Mike, I think your speculation is not correct.

                              But I am completely open for anyone to show me why my view here is wrong.

                              Steve Garcia



                              --- In Precolumbian_Inscriptions@yahoogroups.com, "mike white" <infoplz@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > i spent some time with google earth tonight. we are fortunate to be able to explore vast areas in the comfort of our homes.
                              > there is an area ene of cuzco that is highlighted in a square. amid that section is a round blackish circle at 13 09 42.23s 71 33 11.46w. zoom in on it, and at 11,193 ft there is what looks like a plateau with buildings on it. very interesting.
                              > i note how close the amazon comes to trujillo. makes one wonder why the ancients located on the arid coast, when only a narrow range separated them from low fertile lands.
                              > while flying over giza and cairo, i noted the ancient surveyed fields far to the west. these were oriented northeast-southwest, about 30 degrees off our north. its peculiar that ancient high cultures in the americas favored the same orientation, as if the earth had been at that position stable long enough for civilization to flourish in egypt and the americas. i wonder when that poleshift occurred, perhaps 10,000 bce.
                              >
                              > mike
                              >
                            • mike white
                              here again, a member has no comment about the main issue of the thread, but singles out a passing aside to argue. i did not claim the alignments were exactly
                              Message 14 of 14 , Aug 9, 2008
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                                   here again, a member has no comment about the main issue of the thread, but singles out a passing aside to argue.  i did not claim the alignments were exactly the same, merely pointed out the facts, that many ancient monuments in the americas, and in egypt, favor a general southwest to northeast orientation.  just as now, buildings on both continents are generally aligned north-south magnetic. 
                                   you base your position on assumptions and theories, such as that the former north magnetic pole when these cultures thrived was at hudon bay, and that hapgood's sliding crust theory was factual.  many of us have studied it, and are not persuaded.  its fine with me if there are different opinions, but i dont care to debate it. 
                                   did you use google earth to examine the anomaly that was the crux of this thread?  it may or may not be important, but was an interesting diversion to get the group to use this tool to explore wilderness areas. 
                                 
                                mike
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: bigalemc2
                                Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 8:46 PM
                                Subject: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] Re: google earth

                                Mike -

                                Your speculation that the angular position being similar had to do with a pole shift does not carry water, I don't think.  Why?

                                Because if that 30 degrees off our north was the alignment in Egypt, then the alignment over in the Americas could NOT have been the same, not on a spherical earth.  As one travels west around the old equator, the current equator does NOT keep the same angular relationship.

                                Here is my best reconstruction:

                                Using Hapgood's Hudson Bay North Pole at 60N 83W, at the longitude of Egypt, the Equator would have passed the current Equator at roughly the island of Sao Tome, off the west coast of Africa near Gabon and Equatorial Guinea, at about 0N 7E .   If pole shifts actually did occur (and I am one who does think they did), then the old Equator must intersect the new one at 2 places.   As depicted in the book The H.A.B. Theory, this point would have been one of the 'pivot points' for the pole shift, and would have seen no shifting, but only rotation.  At 180 to the west at 0N 183W, the other pivot point, in the middle of the western Pacific, also would have seen only rotation.

                                Those two places must be 90 degrees around from the line of maximum movement.  Hapgood determined that the old pole was at 60N, so if the new pole is at 90N, then there was 30 degrees of movement along this line.  The line of maximum movement is a great circle passing through both the old pole and new pole.  This line would be the worst impacted by the shift, seeing the greatest 'sloshing' of water onto the continents, etc.  if the old pole was at Hapgood's Hudson Bay position and the NEW one is at our present pole position, then the maximum line ran through Hudson Bay, due north to the new pole position.  But the crustal MOVEMENT along that line was SOUTHWARD (in the Americas), as the new pole rushed to the position that the Hudson Bay pole had previously occupied.

                                That line would have gone close to Detroit, Cincinnati, Atlanta, and Tampa, down past Havana and San Jose, Costa Rica, with all of those diving straight southward by about 30 degrees.  On that side of the globe the water would seem to have come from the south (as the land slid under the water) and inundated everything from that direction.  In  the eastern hemisphere the line would have gone through Siberia, western Mongolia, and down through Burma (Myanmar) toward Rangoon.  This line precisely includes the region of the most severe distortion of the Himalayas, where there is a thrusted region east of Tibet where the Indian plate surged northward into China, under the Asian plate.

                                That would have put the alignment in Egypt different than you describe - about 30 degrees SOUTH of due east, as we now reckon.  At Egypt's that longitude THEN, Egypt's current east was then pointing about 30 degrees south of east

                                Now, if we follow that Equator to the west, what do we get when we get into the Americas?

                                In Peru, their pre-shift east would have been almost the same as it is now, maybe 3 to 5 degrees south of the current east direction.

                                Further north, the Mayan's pre-shift east would have been about 5 degrees south of the current WEST direction.

                                For the Aztecs, further west yet, their pre-shift east would have been about 10 degrees south of the current WEST position.

                                All of this is due to the earth being a sphere.

                                For those who learned that the earth is not a sphere, but is an oblate spheroid, if they will sit down and do the math, the earth is more perfectly spherical than a billiard ball.  Trust me, I have done the math.  So, when I call it a sphere, I do mean it.  Of course it is not a perfect sphere.  But when even a billiard ball is less perfect a sphere, what does a planet have to do to get some respect?

                                But the bottom line here is that, if Hapgood's Hudson Bay North Pole is correct, then what you are seeing, Mike, is not anything to do with the pre-shift polar alignment.  But even if it did on one of the locations, it would not be able to keep that angular juxtaposition at the other.

                                For all these reasons, Mike, I think your speculation is not correct.

                                But I am completely open for anyone to show me why my view here is wrong.

                                Steve Garcia



                                --- In Precolumbian_ Inscriptions@ yahoogroups. com, "mike white" <infoplz@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > i spent some time with google earth tonight. we are fortunate to be able to explore vast areas in the comfort of our homes.
                                > there is an area ene of cuzco that is highlighted in a square. amid that section is a round blackish circle at 13 09 42.23s 71 33 11.46w. zoom in on it, and at 11,193 ft there is what looks like a plateau with buildings on it. very interesting.
                                > i note how close the amazon comes to trujillo. makes one wonder why the ancients located on the arid coast, when only a narrow range separated them from low fertile lands.
                                > while flying over giza and cairo, i noted the ancient surveyed fields far to the west. these were oriented northeast-southwest , about 30 degrees off our north. its peculiar that ancient high cultures in the americas favored the same orientation, as if the earth had been at that position stable long enough for civilization to flourish in egypt and the americas. i wonder when that poleshift occurred, perhaps 10,000 bce.
                                >
                                > mike
                                >

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