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Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] book review : 'the incas' by cieza de leon

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  • mike white
    over halfway thru the book, but had some distractions. im enjoying it as a primary source, but a little disappointed that so little was said on tiwannaku,
    Message 1 of 15 , Jul 2, 2008
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         over halfway thru the book, but had some distractions.  im enjoying it as a primary source, but a little disappointed that so little was said on tiwannaku, etc. 
       
         the old adage is very true i think, that the truth is stranger than fiction.  we only look for what we expect.  those higher trained, are more prone to do this. 
         case in point is canada.  most of us do not expect canada to have ancient sites and advanced cultures, due to the present climate prevailing.  this kind of thinking has always kept the most wonderful sites from being found.  its the least expected places, that have the most exciting finds.  deep in the sahara, the gobi, or atacama deserts, high in the andes, and on the seafloors - and in canada, may have the most exciting finds.  thousands of years ago, before our lads reckon the stone age, these places likely had better climates, and high cultures.  the hostile conditions do not attract expeditions.  cayce said near hudson bay was a center of atlantis culture during its early period. 
         it can be confusing locating atlantis, for we must specify the period to locate it correctly.  imho, the last period of atlantis was a reduced area around the bahamas.  however, 250,000 years before, atlantis may have been centered in areas like hudson bay and patagonia.  its location depended upon what land masses were above water, and located in a good climate. 
         few will take my word, or cayce's on such things, but i relate it just for your consideration.  we all know what the experts say, so i air an alternative view.  we could be misled by the out-of-africa cradle of mankind.  numerous finds are already disproving it, and being ignored.  i tend to believe there were 5 cradles for the five races, with africa the cradle of the black race only. 
         atlantis and lemuria were the most recent mother cultures, but they were not located where the races had their cradles.  i trust cayce on this, he gave the colorado plateau as the cradle of the red race, that reached its apex with the atlanteans after they moved away. 
         the lemurians reached the high point for the brown race that had its cradle in what is now the andes.  im not sure the location of lemuria at its highest point, perhaps somewhere in the pacific basin. 
         it seems the white race is now leading, but our golden age may have been circa 10,000 bce.  it had its cradle in the caucasus or carpathian region, but reached its apex in egypt.  not sure we will reach that high again before the yellow race ascends to the top.   
         its possible that the yellow and black races reached their high point so long ago, that we have no record of it.  the white race may be last in line.  the mystics say we soon will enter the fifth root race, which suggests one of the others has yet to have its day, either the yellow or the black. 
         so, there are many fields waiting to be conquered.  the best sites and finds are still unfound.  our own preconceived notions and theories blind us, and keep us from looking in the right places.  we stop digging far short of the best finds.   future explorers may one day find sites of an advanced culture of 10 mya.  seems farfetched now ...  it may be in the andes, az or utah. 
       
      imho
      mike
       
       
    • Rafael Andrés Escribano
      Hi, Mike. Here s a few random and not so random comments: I think it s very
      Message 2 of 15 , Jul 2, 2008
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        Hi, Mike. 

        Here's a few random and not so random comments:

        <<the old adage is very true i think, that the truth is stranger than fiction>>

        I think it's very true but I don't think it's that old. One of the first dictionaries to record it, as far as I know, is "The New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy" (2002) (http://www.bartleby.com/59/3/truthisstran.html). The idea, however, is probably very old. 

        <<we only look for what we expect.>>

        I don't. I look both for what I expect AND for what I do not expect. 

        <<those higher trained, are more prone to do this. >> 

        Those who are badly trained may be. Those who are well trained are not. Your training is in our own hands unless we renounce that responsiblity. 

        <<most of us do not expect canada to have ancient sites and advanced cultures, due to the present climate prevailing.>>

        I don't. 

        <<- and in canada, may have the most exciting finds.  thousands of years ago, before our lads reckon the stone age, these places likely had better climates, and high cultures.>> 

        It is always interesting to see who these "lads" are and who are their employers....

        <<it seems the white race is now leading>>

        To me, the contrary seems to be happening. For the last 2,000 years, at least, it seems to me, the white race has been made war against, with usury being the main and most "invisible" weapon of that war. We are seeing it now (especially since WW2) in the galloping inflation (a disguised modality of usury and expropriation) we are suffering. Not surprisingly, usury was until recently considered a sin, punished with excommunion by religious authorities, and with death by civil authorities --as it is portrayed, for example, in Cervantes works... And not only the white race, ALL races are the target of that war waged by a very astute minority of international bankers. 911 and its wake has been only an intensification of that war of expropriation and destitution of traditional communities...

        In good faith, 

        Rafael 


        On Jul 2, 2008, at 6:00 AM, mike white wrote:


         
           over halfway thru the book, but had some distractions.  im enjoying it as a primary source, but a little disappointed that so little was said on tiwannaku, etc. 
         
           the old adage is very true i think, that the truth is stranger than fiction.  we only look for what we expect.  those higher trained, are more prone to do this. 
           case in point is canada.  most of us do not expect canada to have ancient sites and advanced cultures, due to the present climate prevailing.  this kind of thinking has always kept the most wonderful sites from being found.  its the least expected places, that have the most exciting finds.  deep in the sahara, the gobi, or atacama deserts, high in the andes, and on the seafloors - and in canada, may have the most exciting finds.  thousands of years ago, before our lads reckon the stone age, these places likely had better climates, and high cultures.  the hostile conditions do not attract expeditions.  cayce said near hudson bay was a center of atlantis culture during its early period. 
           it can be confusing locating atlantis, for we must specify the period to locate it correctly.  imho, the last period of atlantis was a reduced area around the bahamas.  however, 250,000 years before, atlantis may have been centered in areas like hudson bay and patagonia.  its location depended upon what land masses were above water, and located in a good climate. 
           few will take my word, or cayce's on such things, but i relate it just for your consideration.  we all know what the experts say, so i air an alternative view.  we could be misled by the out-of-africa cradle of mankind.  numerous finds are already disproving it, and being ignored.  i tend to believe there were 5 cradles for the five races, with africa the cradle of the black race only. 
           atlantis and lemuria were the most recent mother cultures, but they were not located where the races had their cradles.  i trust cayce on this, he gave the colorado plateau as the cradle of the red race, that reached its apex with the atlanteans after they moved away. 
           the lemurians reached the high point for the brown race that had its cradle in what is now the andes.  im not sure the location of lemuria at its highest point, perhaps somewhere in the pacific basin. 
           it seems the white race is now leading, but our golden age may have been circa 10,000 bce.  it had its cradle in the caucasus or carpathian region, but reached its apex in egypt.  not sure we will reach that high again before the yellow race ascends to the top.   
           its possible that the yellow and black races reached their high point so long ago, that we have no record of it.  the white race may be last in line.  the mystics say we soon will enter the fifth root race, which suggests one of the others has yet to have its day, either the yellow or the black. 
           so, there are many fields waiting to be conquered.  the best sites and finds are still unfound.  our own preconceived notions and theories blind us, and keep us from looking in the right places.  we stop digging far short of the best finds.   future explorers may one day find sites of an advanced culture of 10 mya.  seems farfetched now ...  it may be in the andes, az or utah. 
         
        imho
        mike
         
         


      • mike white
        recall that hapgood discussed an ancient map that had uncanny accuracy, that seemed to have been made before the last ice-age. on it were shown port cities
        Message 3 of 15 , Jul 2, 2008
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             recall that hapgood discussed an ancient map that had uncanny accuracy, that seemed to have been made before the last ice-age.  on it were shown port cities along canada's northern shore, that are now in ice-bound wilderness.   
             there is reason to think, based on actual knapping sites discovered, that the clovis culture began in canada, before coming south. 
             most of the population of canada live along the border with the usa.  the great expanse of canada is relatively unexplored, or only crossed in the winter snow-cover, or by air.  i venture to say that its almost as unknown as the amazon jungle.  swarms of biting insects discourage all but the boldest adventurers. 
             after being graded by the passage of glaciers, and the ground hardened by permafrost, who can say what relics lie buried? 
             lands rise and sink below the sea, climates change thru the ages.  man now occupies almost all lands, even those inhospitable.  i believe this was always the case.  so it would be almost impossible to find an area that didnt once have a population.  at any period of man's long sojourn on earth, there were men at all stages of development, stone-age tribes in one region, and high cultures in others.  this is a logical assumption, since man has not changed that much.  in fact, we are vulnerable of returning to a stone-age at the present.  it would not take much of a global disaster to cause society to collapse, and for modern man to return to primitive savagery. 
             let it be said, that none on this list are ever included, when the term 'our lads' refers to the mainstream concensus. 
             rafael, i bet great finds remain unfound on puerto rico.  its close proximity to the last portions of atlantis would suggest that it must have been part of that empire a mere 12,000 years ago.  its just a matter of time until relics turn up in road-cuts, excavations for foundations of buildings, wells, or coastal caverns now undersea. 
             the purpose of my post was not to be critical of academics, but to encourage more exploration and discovery.  every generation is apt to think that all great finds have already been made.  im saying the field remains wide open.  i wish more had said such things years ago when i was a young man. 
           
          mike
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 4:44 PM
          Subject: Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] book review : 'the incas' by cieza de leon

          Hi, Mike. 


          Here's a few random and not so random comments:

          <<the old adage is very true i think, that the truth is stranger than fiction>>

          I think it's very true but I don't think it's that old. One of the first dictionaries to record it, as far as I know, is "The New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy" (2002) (http://www.bartleby .com/59/3/ truthisstran. html). The idea, however, is probably very old. 

          <<we only look for what we expect.>>

          I don't. I look both for what I expect AND for what I do not expect. 

          <<those higher trained, are more prone to do this. >> 

          Those who are badly trained may be. Those who are well trained are not. Your training is in our own hands unless we renounce that responsiblity. 

          <<most of us do not expect canada to have ancient sites and advanced cultures, due to the present climate prevailing.>>

          I don't. 

          <<- and in canada, may have the most exciting finds.  thousands of years ago, before our lads reckon the stone age, these places likely had better climates, and high cultures.>> 

          It is always interesting to see who these "lads" are and who are their employers... .

          <<it seems the white race is now leading>>

          To me, the contrary seems to be happening. For the last 2,000 years, at least, it seems to me, the white race has been made war against, with usury being the main and most "invisible" weapon of that war. We are seeing it now (especially since WW2) in the galloping inflation (a disguised modality of usury and expropriation) we are suffering. Not surprisingly, usury was until recently considered a sin, punished with excommunion by religious authorities, and with death by civil authorities --as it is portrayed, for example, in Cervantes works... And not only the white race, ALL races are the target of that war waged by a very astute minority of international bankers. 911 and its wake has been only an intensification of that war of expropriation and destitution of traditional communities. ..

          In good faith, 

          Rafael 


          On Jul 2, 2008, at 6:00 AM, mike white wrote:


           
             over halfway thru the book, but had some distractions.   im enjoying it as a primary source, but a little disappointed that so little was said on tiwannaku, etc. 
           
             the old adage is very true i think, that the truth is stranger than fiction.  we only look for what we expect.  those higher trained, are more prone to do this. 
             case in point is canada.  most of us do not expect canada to have ancient sites and advanced cultures, due to the present climate prevailing.  this kind of thinking has always kept the most wonderful sites from being found.  its the least expected places, that have the most exciting finds.  deep in the sahara, the gobi, or atacama deserts, high in the andes, and on the seafloors - and in canada, may have the most exciting finds.  thousands of years ago, before our lads reckon the stone age, these places likely had better climates, and high cultures.  the hostile conditions do not attract expeditions.  cayce said near hudson bay was a center of atlantis culture during its early period. 
             it can be confusing locating atlantis, for we must specify the period to locate it correctly.  imho, the last period of atlantis was a reduced area around the bahamas.  however, 250,000 years before, atlantis may have been centered in areas like hudson bay and patagonia.  its location depended upon what land masses were above water, and located in a good climate. 
             few will take my word, or cayce's on such things, but i relate it just for your consideration.  we all know what the experts say, so i air an alternative view.  we could be misled by the out-of-africa cradle of mankind.  numerous finds are already disproving it, and being ignored.  i tend to believe there were 5 cradles for the five races, with africa the cradle of the black race only. 
             atlantis and lemuria were the most recent mother cultures, but they were not located where the races had their cradles.  i trust cayce on this, he gave the colorado plateau as the cradle of the red race, that reached its apex with the atlanteans after they moved away. 
             the lemurians reached the high point for the brown race that had its cradle in what is now the andes.  im not sure the location of lemuria at its highest point, perhaps somewhere in the pacific basin. 
             it seems the white race is now leading, but our golden age may have been circa 10,000 bce.  it had its cradle in the caucasus or carpathian region, but reached its apex in egypt.  not sure we will reach that high again before the yellow race ascends to the top.   
             its possible that the yellow and black races reached their high point so long ago, that we have no record of it.  the white race may be last in line.  the mystics say we soon will enter the fifth root race, which suggests one of the others has yet to have its day, either the yellow or the black. 
             so, there are many fields waiting to be conquered.  the best sites and finds are still unfound.  our own preconceived notions and theories blind us, and keep us from looking in the right places.  we stop digging far short of the best finds.   future explorers may one day find sites of an advanced culture of 10 mya.  seems farfetched now ...  it may be in the andes, az or utah. 
           
          imho
          mike
           
           




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        • jdaintira@aol.com
          In a message dated 7/2/2008 2:07:12 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, rafael.escribano@mac.com writes: it seems the white race is now leading To me, the
          Message 4 of 15 , Jul 2, 2008
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            In a message dated 7/2/2008 2:07:12 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, rafael.escribano@... writes:
            it seems the white race is now leading>>

            To me, the contrary seems to be happening. For the last 2,000 years, at least, it seems to me, the white race has been made war against, with usury being the main and most "invisible" weapon of that war. We are seeing it now (especially since WW2) in the galloping inflation (a disguised modality of usury and expropriation) we are suffering. Not surprisingly, usury was until recently considered a sin, punished with excommunion by religious authorities, and with death by civil authorities --as it is portrayed, for example, in Cervantes works... And not only the white race, ALL races are the target of that war waged by a very astute minority of international bankers. 911 and its wake has been only an intensification of that war of expropriation and destitution of traditional communities...
            Well said, Rafael
             
            Up until about ten years ago I had thought that Brazil was about to be the next Super Power, now it seems to be China.
             
            I have found that the supposed "third world" countries I have visited are fascinating and with vibrant energy and enormous potential.
             
            And you are so right about usury, etc.  The US Supreme Court recently ruled that banks can charge interest based on the laws in the state in which the back has is headquarters and that the laws of other states enacted to protects its consumers are superceded.  That means that a lot of banks suddenly have headquarters in Delaware, even if it is an in name only PO Box.  And the US Congress got into the act by allowing interest rates on Credit Cards up to about 30%.
             
            Running afoul of these companies, as I have in the case of Chase, is like being indebted to the Mafia.
             
            Now, the use of ethanol and other corn based products is destroying the economy of small villages in Central America and making a food staple too expensive for people he to afford food.
             
            None of this is really about "Race" as there are wonderful people of all races, but it is about culture.
             
            Any country that celebrates GREED IS GOOD will eventually fall.
             
            ~Judith Marie




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          • Phil Whitley
            More evidence of this event has been found. I ve been following the evidence from the Rock Shelter dig and this new article ties it up in a neat package. See
            Message 5 of 15 , Jul 2, 2008
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              More evidence of this event has been found. I've been following the evidence from the Rock Shelter dig and this new article ties it up in a neat package.

              See Exploding Asteroid Theory Strengthened by New Evidence

              <Snips from Article>

              Geological evidence found in Ohio and Indiana in recent weeks is strengthening the case to attribute what happened 12,900 years ago in North America -- when the end of the last Ice Age unexpectedly turned into a phase of extinction for animals and humans – to a cataclysmic comet or asteroid explosion over top of Canada.

              The timing attached to this theory of about 12,900 years ago is consistent with the known disappearances in North America of the wooly mammoth population and the first distinct human society to inhabit the continent, known as the Clovis civilization. At that time, climatic history suggests the Ice Age should have been drawing to a close, but a rapid change known as the Younger Dryas event, instead ushered in another 1,300 years of glacial conditions. A cataclysmic explosion consistent with West’s theory would have the potential to create the kind of atmospheric turmoil necessary to produce such conditions.

              "The kind of evidence we are finding does suggest that climate change at the end of the last Ice Age was the result of a catastrophic event," Tankersley says.  <end snip>

              Brew


            • Phil Whitley
              I just found this article tonight and can t tell you how glad I am that James Adovasio is on the project team. He is one of the few archaeologists that KNOW
              Message 6 of 15 , Jul 14, 2008
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                I just found this article tonight and can't tell you how glad I am that
                James Adovasio is on the project team. He is one of the few
                archaeologists that KNOW that there are pre-Clovis sites. I believe he
                was in on the Rock Shelter project when they found earlier artifacts
                there too.

                http://www.utexas.edu/news/2008/07/14/tarl_gulf/

                AUSTIN, Texas — C. Andrew Hemmings, research associate of the Texas
                Archeological Research Laboratory (TARL) at The University of Texas at
                Austin, will lead an underwater archeological expedition July 30 to Aug.
                12 in the Gulf of Mexico to search for submerged evidence of the first
                Americans.

                Hemmings and James Adovasio, director of the Mercyhurst College
                Archaeological Institute in Erie, Pa., who serves as co-principal
                investigator of the project, will study ancient submerged coastlines in
                the northeastern Gulf to determine where early Americans, known as the
                Clovis culture, might have lived more than 12,000 years ago when the
                underwater terrain was dry land.

                "The archeological record is out there, it's just underwater," Hemmings
                said. "The study's findings will contribute to our understanding of
                early humans in North America, including the timing of their arrival,
                lifestyles and migration patterns, and could add further proof that the
                peopling of the western hemisphere was a lengthier and more complicated
                process than is typically believed."

                The expedition has earned more than $200,000 in grant support, including
                $100,000 from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.
                Additional supporters include TARL, the Gault School of Archaeological
                Research in Austin, Florida Bureau of Archaeological Research, Florida
                Geological Survey, Mercyhurst College and the University of South Florida.

                Hemmings and the 12-person research team will embark July 30 on the
                University of South Florida's research vessel "Suncoaster" to explore an
                area near the Florida Middle Grounds 100 to 200 miles off Florida's west
                coast at depths of 40 to 110 meters. Archeological finds uncovered by
                past dredging operations, fishermen and geologists point to the area's
                potential to have hosted human inhabitants long ago, the researchers said.

                In shallow depths, divers will inspect sites to collect artifacts and
                recover soils for radiocarbon dating. At deeper locations, the research
                team will use remotely operated vehicles and remote sensing tools to
                explore submerged sites and search for fossil remains and stone artifacts.

                "We will start our investigation in shallow areas available to Clovis
                people 12 to 13,000 years ago, and then proceed to older, deeper
                landscapes that could have only been inhabited by people older than
                Clovis," Hemmings said.


                Brew
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