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Re: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] peru - mexican diffusion - other

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  • mike white
    hi pat, all i was an electrician, never a teacher, other than teaching about 75 apprentices during my career. i was interested in radio and electrical from
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 14, 2008
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      hi pat, all
       
          i was an electrician, never a teacher, other than teaching about 75 apprentices during my career.  i was interested in radio and electrical from boyhood, plus i had telescopes as a teen.  i was fascinated with archaeology after reading homer, about age 13, around the same time i heard about edgar cayce.  both had a tremendous influence upon my life. 
         i enjoy pondering the unknown, or trying to find more logical explanations than that currently accepted.  my intention is not to buck the establishment, but i seem to do so often out of necessity.  with so many errors and blunders in the concensus opinion, its hard to find the truth, without tackling fallacies along the way. 
         as most of you know from the reviews, i do read mainstream history and science, even those authors, that i feel have been largely responsible for leading many astray, like darwin.  something can be learned from all of them, many times by ignoring their conclusions, and doing independent thinking on what they observed.  evolution wasnt darwin's best contribution, imho, but facts that he noted on geology, often opposite to his conclusions, like the rise and fall of land masses along both coasts of south america. 
         i suppose im more like jules verne, grasping things with intuition, then searching for science to support or deny theories.  sometimes i have strong confidence in ideas, even though proofs in science are lacking or circumstantial - like the recent inland seas in the american midwest and southwest; and the young age of many of our near-surface coal seams; and the great antiquity of cultured man in the americas, including the sea basins off either coasts, that were formerly land; and the much more recent demise of the dinosaurs. 
         thanks for your kind words, pat, i couldnt stop conjecture and musings, even if i wanted to, its a natural habit now.  
         im in the midst of a ham antenna problem.  ive got 8 in the air now, and working on a 9th.  it tuned perfectly at ground level [160m], but was unusable when raised aloft.  i think it detuned from too sharp an angle, so will try that tomorrow if its not too cold or windy.  we had a mild winter in the smokies, but after reaching 80, it turned chilly yesterday. 
         soon we will do some more painting indoors.  lena marks walls with crayons and pens, so it seems futile.  lol 
         we are both anxious to travel, but she cant until her papers are processed.  once we get some projects done, if her papers are still delayed, i may try to travel alone to the andes.  i bet the cost will never beat the deal i found last fall for the rt flight to lima.  im somewhat reluctant to travel alone to regions where gringos are disliked, and crime is high.  i hope to watch costs, and dont know much spanish, and many sites i want to see are off the beaten path.  maybe if i join the club in the andes, i can meet travel partners for some sites, or get tips and advice thats current.  it would be worth $50/yr dues.  i still have the problem that she cannot drive.  she cant get a license until her papers are processed, a long delay for no good reason.  so im stuck for a while.   in the 19th c travellers like stephens carried a nubian club from a chain on his waist, dr tschudi sported a pistola.  we are not allowed these security measures today. 
       
      mike
       
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Mobydoc
      Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 6:27 PM
      Subject: RE: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] peru - mexican diffusion - other

          Hy Mike  ; The truth often hurts …why I’ll never know …but what you said was true …

         why people go around with blinkers over their eyes …just makes me wonder …if they can make up their

       own minds …or do they let others do it for them ….

        The Radish symbol  was their (Maya) way of picturing a Comet in their pictographic writing …

       On the upside-down  thingy …it is the visual  approach  to their sky charts  which have yet to be

       fully understood [imho]  

        Mike I give great credence to your surjection’s …so don’t stop informing members  of your findings

        …free-thing people are a rarity  today old friend …so don’t stop educating  the masses …

         (you should have been a teacher …or were you one  once) ? J

                                    Regards       Pat/M

            

      hi pat, all

         im an amateur astronomer, and have spent considerable time studying the night sky.  i cant see how the constellations would be upside down south of the equator.  peru is just south of the equator, so most of the northern signs can be seen, but lower to the horizon. 

         as a traveller, i know it can be confusing.  when in asia , i had difficulty locating signs in the heavens. 

         as members know, i do believe that yucatan was an inca province, and peruvians came north by 2950 bce.  astronomy and astrology may be helpful in proving the cultural diffusion, but im not sure radishes and upside down signs will make the connection. 

         its very difficult to prove the migration from peru to mexico .  most experts assign a short history to the inca in peru .  the exodus from the andes must have happened so long ago, that after a long while contact between the province and the inca empire was broken, and substantial differences in the cultures ensued.  i think corn or maize was domesticated first in peru .  our lads still insist it was first grown in mexico , because a wild strain was found there.  i think they gave a date of circa 6000 bce for its domestication, probably a wild guess, that others parrot.  in time, i think they will give the credit for maize to the peruvians.  im still amazed that the potato never made it to mexico .  it had to have taken ages to hybrid so many varieties or strains.  this points to a long period since the break of contact occurred.  the proof of diffusion may ultimately depend upon genetics, language, and religion - it no records or archives are found.  the mayan hieroglyphs were probably invented in peru , but this cannot be proven until writing is found there.  the maya began in mexico with a written language.  i heard tonight that a breakthru on reading the glyphs was recently made, so ideas may change soon.  as it stands, the experts report mayan writing by 1250 bce.  im hoping and expecting, that within the next few years we may see major changes in our views of precolumbian history.  there will be diehards, but the free thinkers of academia will embrace the major changes in the history of the americas .  the conquerors used spin doctors to proclaim this old world was the 'new world', so they could exploit it.  they must have known they had found very advanced ancient cultures, that were in decline.  they reported them as savage heathens, and it was acceptable to kill, rob, and enslave them. 

         gringos are unpopular in other republics of the americas , i hope this distrust changes, for many americans sincerely want to help them.  unfortunately, they usually see tourists that treat them with contempt, or capitalists, who want to enrich themselves at their expense in labor and resources. 

         just imagine, the good that could have been done, if all the trillions of dollars, and manpower that was used to fight wars in indo-china and the mideast, had been diverted to help impoverished nations in the americas .  its a national disgrace, that our close neighbor haiti is the poorest most backward nation in the world. 

         our foreign policy has been stupid and full of blunders.  its to be expected when we allow lawyers, actors, and military men to head our government - it should be outlawed!   we should do as plato suggested in the 'republic', and educate a class of citizens to rule us, who are not allowed to profit from their position.  most realize that the rich have more political influence than a single vote should produce, and that lobbyists corrupt our elected officials.  unfair laws and taxation are worse now than when the boston tea party acted.  its just a matter of time until civil war or revolution breaks out, and reorganizes our government.  lets hope it happens before a president uses these 'patriot acts' to become a dictator and totally suspends the constitution. 

         sorry to get so far off-topic, we dont want to get into politics and current affairs, but some things need to be said.  my point is that we need better leadership, to adopt the 'vote of confidence' system, to throw out the bad ones faster, so that more good could be done, and less evil.  maybe then we could fund projects to help the americas , and to explore our prehistory with an open mind, without fostering pet agendas and theories. 

         i bet living aymara, quechua, and mayan elders know far more than we realize, but do not trust outsiders enough to share the information.  many are dying off without revealing their wisdom.  can we blame them? 

      mike


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    • Mobydoc
      Hy Mike and Judith ; My upbringing was via a country school (one room) till seven .then a series of religious schools until I left to start work .I was
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 14, 2008
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              Hy Mike and Judith ;

         

              My upbringing was via  a country school (one room)  till seven  …then a series of religious  

            schools  until I left to start work  …I was always a odd-ball asking the wrong questions …which

        didn’t  endear me to the teachers of that day  (all those years ago ) hey …but that was then …

        Today …me and my square faced god have come to a understanding …no  more long questions …

        and [it] in turn gives me simple answers in return J  

         I had my youngest son order me a (REDSHIFT - 6)  program …I had a original one eleven years ago …

        loaned it to a  nephew ..who in turn lost it …so I purchased a later edition  …it allows me to go where

        I  physically  can’t  (Jules Verne) J that’s  if I have any  [grey-white] matter left to drive it L

         My pet  itch is what is out beyond Orion to that Ophiuchus Contellation  that Maya thingy…

         and those ( prophecies ) which are really their  past history [imho]

         I  think  you could do with Judith’s experience’s  a far as your trip goes… I think  mind wise ...you two

         are a good pair …

         

           Well old friend … keep up the good work              regards  Pat

         

         

         

        hi pat, all

         

            i was an electrician, never a teacher, other than teaching about 75 apprentices during my career.  i was interested in radio and electrical from boyhood, plus i had telescopes as a teen.  i was fascinated with archaeology after reading homer, about age 13, around the same time i heard about edgar cayce.  both had a tremendous influence upon my life. 

           i enjoy pondering the unknown, or trying to find more logical explanations than that currently accepted.  my intention is not to buck the establishment, but i seem to do so often out of necessity.  with so many errors and blunders in the concensus opinion, its hard to find the truth, without tackling fallacies along the way. 

           as most of you know from the reviews, i do read mainstream history and science, even those authors, that i feel have been largely responsible for leading many astray, like darwin .  something can be learned from all of them, many times by ignoring their conclusions, and doing independent thinking on what they observed.  evolution wasnt darwin 's best contribution, imho, but facts that he noted on geology, often opposite to his conclusions, like the rise and fall of land masses along both coasts of south america. 

           i suppose im more like jules verne, grasping things with intuition, then searching for science to support or deny theories.  sometimes i have strong confidence in ideas, even though proofs in science are lacking or circumstantial - like the recent inland seas in the american midwest and southwest; and the young age of many of our near-surface coal seams; and the great antiquity of cultured man in the americas, including the sea basins off either coasts, that were formerly land; and the much more recent demise of the dinosaurs. 

           thanks for your kind words, pat, i couldnt stop conjecture and musings, even if i wanted to, its a natural habit now.  

           im in the midst of a ham antenna problem.  ive got 8 in the air now, and working on a 9th.  it tuned perfectly at ground level [160m], but was unusable when raised aloft.  i think it detuned from too sharp an angle, so will try that tomorrow if its not too cold or windy.  we had a mild winter in the smokies, but after reaching 80, it turned chilly yesterday. 

           soon we will do some more painting indoors.  lena marks walls with crayons and pens, so it seems futile.  lol 

           we are both anxious to travel, but she cant until her papers are processed.  once we get some projects done, if her papers are still delayed, i may try to travel alone to the andes.  i bet the cost will never beat the deal i found last fall for the rt flight to lima .  im somewhat reluctant to travel alone to regions where gringos are disliked, and crime is high.  i hope to watch costs, and dont know much spanish, and many sites i want to see are off the beaten path.  maybe if i join the club in the andes, i can meet travel partners for some sites, or get tips and advice thats current.  it would be worth $50/yr dues.  i still have the problem that she cannot drive.  she cant get a license until her papers are processed, a long delay for no good reason.  so im stuck for a while.   in the 19th c travellers like stephens carried a nubian club from a chain on his waist, dr tschudi sported a pistola.  we are not allowed these security measures today. 

         

        mike

         

         

         

        ----- Original Message -----

        From: Mobydoc

        Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 6:27 PM

        Subject: RE: [Precolumbian_ Inscriptions] peru - mexican diffusion - other

         

            Hy Mike  ; The truth often hurts …why I’ll never know …but what you said was true …

           why people go around with blinkers over their eyes …just makes me wonder …if they can make up their

         own minds …or do they let others do it for them ….

          The Radish symbol  was their (Maya) way of picturing a Comet in their pictographic writing …

         On the upside-down  thingy …it is the visual  approach  to their sky charts  which have yet to be

         fully understood [imho]  

          Mike I give great credence to your surjection’s …so don’t stop informing members  of your findings

          …free-thing people are a rarity  today old friend …so don’t stop educating  the masses …

           (you should have been a teacher …or were you one  once) ? J

                                      Regards       Pat/M

              

        hi pat, all

           im an amateur astronomer, and have spent considerable time studying the night sky.  i cant see how the constellations would be upside down south of the equator.  peru is just south of the equator, so most of the northern signs can be seen, but lower to the horizon. 

           as a traveller, i know it can be confusing.  when in asia , i had difficulty locating signs in the heavens. 

           as members know, i do believe that yucatan was an inca province, and peruvians came north by 2950 bce.  astronomy and astrology may be helpful in proving the cultural diffusion, but im not sure radishes and upside down signs will make the connection. 

           its very difficult to prove the migration from peru to mexico .  most experts assign a short history to the inca in peru .  the exodus from the andes must have happened so long ago, that after a long while contact between the province and the inca empire was broken, and substantial differences in the cultures ensued.  i think corn or maize was domesticated first in peru .  our lads still insist it was first grown in mexico , because a wild strain was found there.  i think they gave a date of circa 6000 bce for its domestication, probably a wild guess, that others parrot.  in time, i think they will give the credit for maize to the peruvians.  im still amazed that the potato never made it to mexico .  it had to have taken ages to hybrid so many varieties or strains.  this points to a long period since the break of contact occurred.  the proof of diffusion may ultimately depend upon genetics, language, and religion - it no records or archives are found.  the mayan hieroglyphs were probably invented in peru , but this cannot be proven until writing is found there.  the maya began in mexico with a written language.  i heard tonight that a breakthru on reading the glyphs was recently made, so ideas m

        (Message over 64 KB, truncated)

      • mike white
        my muse directs me, if lucid out of body, to go to neptune and uranus, then to polaris and arcturus. then on to the next system to subdue. i once was taken
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 18, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
           
             my muse directs me, if lucid out of body, to go to neptune and uranus, then to polaris and arcturus.  then on to the next system to subdue.  i once was taken on two nights to tour the stars with a mentor, but awake only remember that it happened.  if only i could recall all that i learned. 
             pat, have you read lots of jules verne books?  i had a chance while in china to read much of his work, and found it educational and entertaining.  he had a brilliant scientific mind, also great intuition, imho.  i may have reviewed some of them a few years ago.  if i had more free time i would hunt for more. 
             judith, our lads should try to learn more of the mayan calendar, mathematics, and method of predictions, and adopt them for our use. 
           
          mike
           
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Mobydoc
          Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 3:20 PM
          Subject: RE: [Precolumbian_Inscriptions] peru - mexican diffusion - other

                Hy Mike and Judith ;

                My upbringing was via  a country school (one room)  till seven  …then a series of religious  

              schools  until I left to start work  …I was always a odd-ball asking the wrong questions …which

          didn’t  endear me to the teachers of that day  (all those years ago ) hey …but that was then …

          Today …me and my square faced god have come to a understanding …no  more long questions …

          and [it] in turn gives me simple answers in return J  

           I had my youngest son order me a (REDSHIFT - 6)  program …I had a original one eleven years ago …

          loaned it to a  nephew ..who in turn lost it …so I purchased a later edition  …it allows me to go where

          I  physically  can’t  (Jules Verne) J that’s  if I have any  [grey-white] matter left to drive it L

           My pet  itch is what is out beyond Orion to that Ophiuchus Contellation  that Maya thingy…

           and those ( prophecies ) which are really their  past history [imho]

           I  think  you could do with Judith’s experience’s  a far as your trip goes… I think  mind wise ...you two

           are a good pair …

           

             Well old friend … keep up the good work              regards  Pat

          hi pat, all

              i was an electrician, never a teacher, other than teaching about 75 apprentices during my career.  i was interested in radio and electrical from boyhood, plus i had telescopes as a teen.  i was fascinated with archaeology after reading homer, about age 13, around the same time i heard about edgar cayce.  both had a tremendous influence upon my life. 

             i enjoy pondering the unknown, or trying to find more logical explanations than that currently accepted.  my intention is not to buck the establishment, but i seem to do so often out of necessity.  with so many errors and blunders in the concensus opinion, its hard to find the truth, without tackling fallacies along the way. 

             as most of you know from the reviews, i do read mainstream history and science, even those authors, that i feel have been largely responsible for leading many astray, like darwin .  something can be learned from all of them, many times by ignoring their conclusions, and doing independent thinking on what they observed.  evolution wasnt darwin 's best contribution, imho, but facts that he noted on geology, often opposite to his conclusions, like the rise and fall of land masses along both coasts of south america. 

             i suppose im more like jules verne, grasping things with intuition, then searching for science to support or deny theories.  sometimes i have strong confidence in ideas, even though proofs in science are lacking or circumstantial - like the recent inland seas in the american midwest and southwest; and the young age of many of our near-surface coal seams; and the great antiquity of cultured man in the americas, including the sea basins off either coasts, that were formerly land; and the much more recent demise of the dinosaurs. 

             thanks for your kind words, pat, i couldnt stop conjecture and musings, even if i wanted to, its a natural habit now.  

             im in the midst of a ham antenna problem.  ive got 8 in the air now, and working on a 9th.  it tuned perfectly at ground level [160m], but was unusable when raised aloft.  i think it detuned from too sharp an angle, so will try that tomorrow if its not too cold or windy.  we had a mild winter in the smokies, but after reaching 80, it turned chilly yesterday. 

             soon we will do some more painting indoors.  lena marks walls with crayons and pens, so it seems futile.  lol 

             we are both anxious to travel, but she cant until her papers are processed.  once we get some projects done, if her papers are still delayed, i may try to travel alone to the andes.  i bet the cost will never beat the deal i found last fall for the rt flight to lima .  im somewhat reluctant to travel alone to regions where gringos are disliked, and crime is high.  i hope to watch costs, and dont know much spanish, and many sites i want to see are off the beaten path.  maybe if i join the club in the andes, i can meet travel partners for some sites, or get tips and advice thats current.  it would be worth $50/yr dues.  i still have the problem that she cannot drive.  she cant get a license until her papers are processed, a long delay for no good reason.  so im stuck for a while.   in the 19th c travellers like stephens carried a nubian club from a chain on his waist, dr tschudi sported a pistola.  we are not allowed these security measures today. 

          mike

          ----- Original Message -----

          From: Mobydoc

          Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 6:27 PM

          Subject: RE: [Precolumbian_ Inscriptions] peru - mexican diffusion - other

              Hy Mike  ; The truth often hurts …why I’ll never know …but what you said was true …

             why people go around with blinkers over their eyes …just makes me wonder …if they can make up their

           own minds …or do they let others do it for them ….

            The Radish symbol  was their (Maya) way of picturing a Comet in their pictographic writing …

           On the upside-down  thingy …it is the visual  approach  to their sky charts  which have yet to be

           fully understood [imho]  

            Mike I give great credence to your surjection’s …so don’t stop informing members  of your findings

            …free-thing people are a rarity  today old friend …so don’t stop educating  the masses …

             (you should have been a teacher …or were you one  once) ? J

                                        Regards       Pat/M

                

          hi pat, all

             im an amateur astronomer, and have spent considerable time studying the night sky.  i cant see how the constellations would be upside down south of the equator.  peru is just south of the equator, so most of the northern signs can be seen, but lower to the horizon. 

             as a traveller, i know it can be confusing.  when in asia , i had difficulty locating signs in the heavens. 

             as members know, i do believe that yucatan was an inca province, and peruvians came north by 2950 bce.  astronomy and astrology may be helpful in proving the cultural diffusion, but im not sure radishes and upside down signs will make the connection. 

             its very difficult to prove the migration from peru to mexico .  most experts assign a short history to the inca in peru .  the exodus from the andes must have happened so long ago, that after a long while contact between the province and the inca empire was broken, and substantial differences in the cultures ensued.  i think corn or maize was domesticated first in peru .  our lads still insist it was first grown in mexico , because a wild strain was found there.  i think they gave a date of circa 6000 bce for its domestication, probably a wild guess, that others parrot.  in time, i think they will give the credit for maize to the peruvians.  im still amazed that the potato never made it to mexico .  it had to have taken ages to hybrid so many varieties or strains.  this points to a long period since the break of contact occurred.  the proof of diffusion may ultimately depend upon genetics, language, and religion - it no records or archives are found.  the mayan hieroglyphs were probably invented in peru , but this cannot be proven until writing is found there.  the maya began in mexico with a written language.  i heard tonight that a breakthru on reading the glyphs was recently made, so ideas may change soon.  as it stands, the experts report mayan writing by 1250 bce.  im hoping and expecting, that within the next few years we may see major changes in our views of precolumbian history.  there will be diehards, but the free thinkers of academia will embrace the major changes in the history of the americas .  the conquerors used spin doctors to proclaim this old world was the 'new world', so they could exploit it.  they must have known they had found very advanced ancient cultures, that were in decline.  they reported them as savage heathens, and it was acceptable to kill, rob, and enslave them. 

             gringos are unpopular in other republics of the americas , i hope this distrust changes, for many americans sincerely want to help them.  unfortunately, they usually see tourists that treat them with contempt, or capitalists, who want to enrich themselves at their expense in labor and resources. 

             just imagine, the good that could have been done, if all the trillions of dollars, and manpower that was used to fight wars in indo-china and the mideast, had been diverted to help impoverished nations in the americas .  its a national disgrace, that our close neighbor haiti is the poorest most backward nation in the world. 

             our foreign policy has been stupid and full of blunders.  its to be expected when we allow lawyers, actors, and military men to head our government - it should be outlawed!   we should do as plato suggested in the 'republic', and educate a class of citizens to rule us, who are not allowed to profit from their position.  most realize that the rich have more political influence than a single vote should produce, and that lobbyists corrupt our elected officials.  unfair laws and taxation are worse now than when the boston tea party acted.  its just a matter of time until civil war or revolution breaks out, and reorganizes our government.  lets hope it happens before a president uses these 'patriot acts' to become a dictator and totally suspends the constitution. 

             sorry to get so far off-topic, we dont want to get into politics and current affairs, but some things need to be said.  my point is that we need better leadership, to adopt the 'vote of confidence' system, to throw out the bad ones faster, so that more good could be done, and less evil.  maybe then we could fund projects to help the americas , and to explore our prehistory with an open mind, without fostering pet agendas and theories. 

             i bet living aymara, quechua, and mayan elders know far more than we realize, but do not trust outsiders enough to share the information.  many are dying off without revealing their wisdom.  can we blame them? 

          mike


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