Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [California PortaBoters] Minimum temp for handling the Bote?

Expand Messages
  • Merton Leeper
    Rickard:      I assemble my Bote in my garage, then put it into the bed of my pickup, lower the tonneau cover, and drive to the lake.  Once it is put
    Message 1 of 30 , Dec 2, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Rickard:
           I assemble my Bote in my garage, then put it into the bed of my pickup, lower the tonneau cover, and drive to the lake.  Once it is put together in the Spring, it stays in my garage until it is disassembled in the Fall.  Thus, it is put together once a season and taken down once each season.  Then it hangs on the ceiling, above my truck, during the ice fishing season.  Mert




      ________________________________
      From: Rickard <nilsson.rickard@...>
      To: PortaBote@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 3:40:12 AM
      Subject: Re: [California PortaBoters] Minimum temp for handling the Bote?

       


      Thanks all of you for your comments!

      Although there doesn't seem to be any simple answer in terms of an exact lower temp limit, the overall impression is that the bote can take rather harsh and cold conditions. Once on water there's no risk for failure and safety is of course the most important thing. But what about forcing up the hull with some kind of jack or tool when you don't have the muscles to open it yourself with the bote-opener? This situation can occur with a new bote in not so low temps. I have read the recommendation to store the bote indoors before opening it in cold weather, but I can't recall any ban against opening a cold hull, not even with tools - or have I missed something?

      (The sea doesn't freeze at the same moment air temperature pass below zero Celsius. It takes weeks and months to cool down the water mass and during that period a freak like me can get the idea to take a trip... By the end of february the ice use to be about one meter thick and the bote will hang in the garage, I promise!)

      Regards
      Rickard

      --- In PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com, Merton Leeper <mertleeper@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > Rickard:
      >      I use my Porta Bote in all kinds of conditions without problems.  This season, for instance, I was the first Bote on Antero Reservoir (smack dab in the middle of the Colorado Rockies at about 9000 ft.) and I actually had to slowly plow thru the ice two out of the four continuous days we fished.  No problems at all.  We just went slowly.  Ice cover was only about one fourth to one half inch.  And in the middle the lake was open.  Fished in weather in the mid-thirties for the last week of April and half of May.  No problems of any kind cropped up!!  Mert from Colorado
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ____________ _________ _________ __
      > From: Rickard <nilsson.rickard@ ...>
      > To: PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com
      > Sent: Fri, November 27, 2009 2:34:29 PM
      > Subject: [California PortaBoters] Minimum temp for handling the Bote?
      >
      >  
      > Hi,
      >
      > I have asked my local dealer before but he doesn't know and it seems as he never got any answer from the manufacturer either. The problem is, the material used for the hull in a Porta-bote is a plastic developed by Italian scientists in the 30:s and 40:s (that had nothing to do with space-age as claimed in some Porta-bote advertisments) usually named polypropylene (PP). This material has a number of very favourable features but also one very significant drawback - it gets brittle at low temperatures. I live in an area where we use Celsius for temperature and the critical limit is, according to some polypropylene manufacturers, about -18 degrees Celsius. Noone uses the bote on water at that temperature because then ice covers the surface. But, for various reasons one might handle the bote, transport it, practise putting it together or whatever and then there could be a risk for damaging the hull at that temperature. As you probably have noticed, the hull
      > is very thin along the edges where the pieces foldes. Along those critical lines the hull is NOT 5 mm thick, it's very much thinner. Therefore I'm rather concerned about this temperature issue because I love the bote, it's portability and everything, but cannot get this damned temp issue out of my mind. Polypropylene can be modified in many ways, I know that, please, anyone, tell me something that makes me forget about this issue! (Sorry, I already know about the Mt Everest story... just another Porta-bote trip in summer conditions, not at all convincing to a Swede). I would like to hear something like: the bote has been folded and unfolded 100000 times at -15 degrees Celsius without any sign of degradation of strenght.
      >
      > Thanks for every response!
      > Rickard
      > Porta-Bote lover in Sweden
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • lifewithrye
      Have you heard anything from portabote? I am thinking about buying one but have heard no closure to your issue. Michael
      Message 2 of 30 , Dec 15, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Have you heard anything from portabote? I am thinking about buying one but have heard no closure to your issue.
        Michael

        --- In PortaBote@yahoogroups.com, sk <sk@...> wrote:
        >
        > There is a product called Tear-Aid Type A.
        >
        > www.Cabelas.com sells it.
        >
        > It's an incredibly strong Polypropylene tape
        > that stretches and bonds to the polypropylene hull.
        >
        > It WORKS!
        >
        > On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 8:30 PM, jbgordonca <jimarley@...> wrote:
        >
        > >
        > >
        > > Did you contact Porta-Boat. They have a warranty. We all would be
        > > interested in their answer. Jim
        > >
        > > --- In PortaBote@yahoogroups.com <PortaBote%40yahoogroups.com>, "David
        > > Fulcher" <davidfulcher@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I do not know about folding and unfolding 100000 times in - 15c
        > > > but i can tell you my 2002 boat developed a hole in the bottom rear
        > > center fold after about 60 folding and unfoldings in warm weather. Tryed
        > > epoxy recommended by 3M and it held until i folded the boat then it broke
        > > loose. I am unable to use it at all because of the big leak. I liked and had
        > > fun with the boat as long as it lasted. Any one want to buy a leaky boat.
        > > >
        > > > Dave
        > > >
        > > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > > From: Rickard
        > > > To: PortaBote@yahoogroups.com <PortaBote%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > > Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 4:34 PM
        > > > Subject: [California PortaBoters] Minimum temp for handling the Bote?
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Hi,
        > > >
        > > > I have asked my local dealer before but he doesn't know and it seems as
        > > he never got any answer from the manufacturer either. The problem is, the
        > > material used for the hull in a Porta-bote is a plastic developed by Italian
        > > scientists in the 30:s and 40:s (that had nothing to do with space-age as
        > > claimed in some Porta-bote advertisments)usually named polypropylene (PP).
        > > This material has a number of very favourable features but also one very
        > > significant drawback - it gets brittle at low temperatures. I live in an
        > > area where we use Celsius for temperature and the critical limit is,
        > > according to some polypropylene manufacturers, about -18 degrees Celsius.
        > > Noone uses the bote on water at that temperature because then ice covers the
        > > surface. But, for various reasons one might handle the bote, transport it,
        > > practise putting it together or whatever and then there could be a risk for
        > > damaging the hull at that temperature. As you probably have noticed, the
        > > hull is very th! in along the edges where the pieces foldes. Along those
        > > critical lines the hull is NOT 5 mm thick, it's very much thinner. Therefore
        > > I'm rather concerned about this temperature issue because I love the bote,
        > > it's portability and everything, but cannot get this damned temp issue out
        > > of my mind. Polypropylene can be modified in many ways, I know that, please,
        > > anyone, tell me something that makes me forget about this issue! (Sorry, I
        > > already know about the Mt Everest story... just another Porta-bote trip in
        > > summer conditions, not at all convincing to a Swede). I would like to hear
        > > something like: the bote has been folded and unfolded 100000 times at -15
        > > degrees Celsius without any sign of degradation of strenght.
        > > >
        > > > Thanks for every response!
        > > > Rickard
        > > > Porta-Bote lover in Sweden
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • sk
        Hi Please read the answer we sent . Portatech ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 30 , Dec 15, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi

          Please read the answer we sent .

          Portatech

          On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 6:59 PM, lifewithrye <menard1955@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          > Have you heard anything from portabote? I am thinking about buying one but
          > have heard no closure to your issue.
          > Michael
          >
          > --- In PortaBote@yahoogroups.com <PortaBote%40yahoogroups.com>, sk <sk@...>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > There is a product called Tear-Aid Type A.
          > >
          > > www.Cabelas.com sells it.
          > >
          > > It's an incredibly strong Polypropylene tape
          > > that stretches and bonds to the polypropylene hull.
          > >
          > > It WORKS!
          > >
          > > On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 8:30 PM, jbgordonca <jimarley@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Did you contact Porta-Boat. They have a warranty. We all would be
          > > > interested in their answer. Jim
          > > >
          > > > --- In PortaBote@yahoogroups.com <PortaBote%40yahoogroups.com><PortaBote%
          > 40yahoogroups.com>, "David
          > > > Fulcher" <davidfulcher@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > I do not know about folding and unfolding 100000 times in - 15c
          > > > > but i can tell you my 2002 boat developed a hole in the bottom rear
          > > > center fold after about 60 folding and unfoldings in warm weather.
          > Tryed
          > > > epoxy recommended by 3M and it held until i folded the boat then it
          > broke
          > > > loose. I am unable to use it at all because of the big leak. I liked
          > and had
          > > > fun with the boat as long as it lasted. Any one want to buy a leaky
          > boat.
          > > > >
          > > > > Dave
          > > > >
          > > > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > > > From: Rickard
          > > > > To: PortaBote@yahoogroups.com <PortaBote%40yahoogroups.com><PortaBote%
          > 40yahoogroups.com>
          > > > > Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 4:34 PM
          > > > > Subject: [California PortaBoters] Minimum temp for handling the Bote?
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Hi,
          > > > >
          > > > > I have asked my local dealer before but he doesn't know and it seems
          > as
          > > > he never got any answer from the manufacturer either. The problem is,
          > the
          > > > material used for the hull in a Porta-bote is a plastic developed by
          > Italian
          > > > scientists in the 30:s and 40:s (that had nothing to do with space-age
          > as
          > > > claimed in some Porta-bote advertisments)usually named polypropylene
          > (PP).
          > > > This material has a number of very favourable features but also one
          > very
          > > > significant drawback - it gets brittle at low temperatures. I live in
          > an
          > > > area where we use Celsius for temperature and the critical limit is,
          > > > according to some polypropylene manufacturers, about -18 degrees
          > Celsius.
          > > > Noone uses the bote on water at that temperature because then ice
          > covers the
          > > > surface. But, for various reasons one might handle the bote, transport
          > it,
          > > > practise putting it together or whatever and then there could be a risk
          > for
          > > > damaging the hull at that temperature. As you probably have noticed,
          > the
          > > > hull is very th! in along the edges where the pieces foldes. Along
          > those
          > > > critical lines the hull is NOT 5 mm thick, it's very much thinner.
          > Therefore
          > > > I'm rather concerned about this temperature issue because I love the
          > bote,
          > > > it's portability and everything, but cannot get this damned temp issue
          > out
          > > > of my mind. Polypropylene can be modified in many ways, I know that,
          > please,
          > > > anyone, tell me something that makes me forget about this issue!
          > (Sorry, I
          > > > already know about the Mt Everest story... just another Porta-bote trip
          > in
          > > > summer conditions, not at all convincing to a Swede). I would like to
          > hear
          > > > something like: the bote has been folded and unfolded 100000 times at
          > -15
          > > > degrees Celsius without any sign of degradation of strenght.
          > > > >
          > > > > Thanks for every response!
          > > > > Rickard
          > > > > Porta-Bote lover in Sweden
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • David Fulcher
          I did hear from portabote and was told that the tear-aid should work. No mention of warranty. I have applied it to the hole and will test it last January in
          Message 4 of 30 , Dec 16, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            I did hear from portabote and was told that the tear-aid should work. No mention of warranty. I have applied it to the hole and will test it last January in saltwater. I have doubt that it will work but am hopefull it will.

            Dave

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: lifewithrye
            To: PortaBote@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 9:59 PM
            Subject: Re: [California PortaBoters] Minimum temp for handling the Bote?



            Have you heard anything from portabote? I am thinking about buying one but have heard no closure to your issue.
            Michael

            --- In PortaBote@yahoogroups.com, sk <sk@...> wrote:
            >
            > There is a product called Tear-Aid Type A.
            >
            > www.Cabelas.com sells it.
            >
            > It's an incredibly strong Polypropylene tape
            > that stretches and bonds to the polypropylene hull.
            >
            > It WORKS!
            >
            > On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 8:30 PM, jbgordonca <jimarley@...> wrote:
            >
            > >
            > >
            > > Did you contact Porta-Boat. They have a warranty. We all would be
            > > interested in their answer. Jim
            > >
            > > --- In PortaBote@yahoogroups.com <PortaBote%40yahoogroups.com>, "David
            > > Fulcher" <davidfulcher@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I do not know about folding and unfolding 100000 times in - 15c
            > > > but i can tell you my 2002 boat developed a hole in the bottom rear
            > > center fold after about 60 folding and unfoldings in warm weather. Tryed
            > > epoxy recommended by 3M and it held until i folded the boat then it broke
            > > loose. I am unable to use it at all because of the big leak. I liked and had
            > > fun with the boat as long as it lasted. Any one want to buy a leaky boat.
            > > >
            > > > Dave
            > > >
            > > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > > From: Rickard
            > > > To: PortaBote@yahoogroups.com <PortaBote%40yahoogroups.com>
            > > > Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 4:34 PM
            > > > Subject: [California PortaBoters] Minimum temp for handling the Bote?
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Hi,
            > > >
            > > > I have asked my local dealer before but he doesn't know and it seems as
            > > he never got any answer from the manufacturer either. The problem is, the
            > > material used for the hull in a Porta-bote is a plastic developed by Italian
            > > scientists in the 30:s and 40:s (that had nothing to do with space-age as
            > > claimed in some Porta-bote advertisments)usually named polypropylene (PP).
            > > This material has a number of very favourable features but also one very
            > > significant drawback - it gets brittle at low temperatures. I live in an
            > > area where we use Celsius for temperature and the critical limit is,
            > > according to some polypropylene manufacturers, about -18 degrees Celsius.
            > > Noone uses the bote on water at that temperature because then ice covers the
            > > surface. But, for various reasons one might handle the bote, transport it,
            > > practise putting it together or whatever and then there could be a risk for
            > > damaging the hull at that temperature. As you probably have noticed, the
            > > hull is very th! in along the edges where the pieces foldes. Along those
            > > critical lines the hull is NOT 5 mm thick, it's very much thinner. Therefore
            > > I'm rather concerned about this temperature issue because I love the bote,
            > > it's portability and everything, but cannot get this damned temp issue out
            > > of my mind. Polypropylene can be modified in many ways, I know that, please,
            > > anyone, tell me something that makes me forget about this issue! (Sorry, I
            > > already know about the Mt Everest story... just another Porta-bote trip in
            > > summer conditions, not at all convincing to a Swede). I would like to hear
            > > something like: the bote has been folded and unfolded 100000 times at -15
            > > degrees Celsius without any sign of degradation of strenght.
            > > >
            > > > Thanks for every response!
            > > > Rickard
            > > > Porta-Bote lover in Sweden
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Rickard
            We have 5 degrees F (-15 Celsius)today and this weekend I want to unfold my boat that is stored outdoors at a shipyard to take some measures for a sonar mount.
            Message 5 of 30 , Feb 20, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              We have 5 degrees F (-15 Celsius)today and this weekend I want to unfold my boat that is stored outdoors at a shipyard to take some measures for a sonar mount. Can I do that without any risk for damages without warming it up in advance?

              Yes or no, please?

              Rickard



              --- In PortaBote@yahoogroups.com, Merton Leeper <mertleeper@...> wrote:
              >
              > Rickard:
              >      I assemble my Bote in my garage, then put it into the bed of my pickup, lower the tonneau cover, and drive to the lake.  Once it is put together in the Spring, it stays in my garage until it is disassembled in the Fall.  Thus, it is put together once a season and taken down once each season.  Then it hangs on the ceiling, above my truck, during the ice fishing season.  Mert
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: Rickard <nilsson.rickard@...>
              > To: PortaBote@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 3:40:12 AM
              > Subject: Re: [California PortaBoters] Minimum temp for handling the Bote?
              >
              >  
              >
              >
              > Thanks all of you for your comments!
              >
              > Although there doesn't seem to be any simple answer in terms of an exact lower temp limit, the overall impression is that the bote can take rather harsh and cold conditions. Once on water there's no risk for failure and safety is of course the most important thing. But what about forcing up the hull with some kind of jack or tool when you don't have the muscles to open it yourself with the bote-opener? This situation can occur with a new bote in not so low temps. I have read the recommendation to store the bote indoors before opening it in cold weather, but I can't recall any ban against opening a cold hull, not even with tools - or have I missed something?
              >
              > (The sea doesn't freeze at the same moment air temperature pass below zero Celsius. It takes weeks and months to cool down the water mass and during that period a freak like me can get the idea to take a trip... By the end of february the ice use to be about one meter thick and the bote will hang in the garage, I promise!)
              >
              > Regards
              > Rickard
              >
              > --- In PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com, Merton Leeper <mertleeper@ ...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Rickard:
              > >      I use my Porta Bote in all kinds of conditions without problems.  This season, for instance, I was the first Bote on Antero Reservoir (smack dab in the middle of the Colorado Rockies at about 9000 ft.) and I actually had to slowly plow thru the ice two out of the four continuous days we fished.  No problems at all.  We just went slowly.  Ice cover was only about one fourth to one half inch.  And in the middle the lake was open.  Fished in weather in the mid-thirties for the last week of April and half of May.  No problems of any kind cropped up!!  Mert from Colorado
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ____________ _________ _________ __
              > > From: Rickard <nilsson.rickard@ ...>
              > > To: PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com
              > > Sent: Fri, November 27, 2009 2:34:29 PM
              > > Subject: [California PortaBoters] Minimum temp for handling the Bote?
              > >
              > >  
              > > Hi,
              > >
              > > I have asked my local dealer before but he doesn't know and it seems as he never got any answer from the manufacturer either. The problem is, the material used for the hull in a Porta-bote is a plastic developed by Italian scientists in the 30:s and 40:s (that had nothing to do with space-age as claimed in some Porta-bote advertisments) usually named polypropylene (PP). This material has a number of very favourable features but also one very significant drawback - it gets brittle at low temperatures. I live in an area where we use Celsius for temperature and the critical limit is, according to some polypropylene manufacturers, about -18 degrees Celsius. Noone uses the bote on water at that temperature because then ice covers the surface. But, for various reasons one might handle the bote, transport it, practise putting it together or whatever and then there could be a risk for damaging the hull at that temperature. As you probably have noticed, the hull
              > > is very thin along the edges where the pieces foldes. Along those critical lines the hull is NOT 5 mm thick, it's very much thinner. Therefore I'm rather concerned about this temperature issue because I love the bote, it's portability and everything, but cannot get this damned temp issue out of my mind. Polypropylene can be modified in many ways, I know that, please, anyone, tell me something that makes me forget about this issue! (Sorry, I already know about the Mt Everest story... just another Porta-bote trip in summer conditions, not at all convincing to a Swede). I would like to hear something like: the bote has been folded and unfolded 100000 times at -15 degrees Celsius without any sign of degradation of strenght.
              > >
              > > Thanks for every response!
              > > Rickard
              > > Porta-Bote lover in Sweden
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Pete, in Tacoma WA
              Don t do it. Wait till the bote hull temp is well above freezing, such as 45 degrees F. - not the air temp, the hull material temp. Better to wait till above
              Message 6 of 30 , Feb 20, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Don't do it. Wait till the bote hull temp is well above freezing, such as 45 degrees F. - not the air temp, the hull material temp. Better to wait till above 55, but who can wait that long? The lower the temp, the higher the strain on the polymer molecules, particularly at the stress points of the hinge area.
                 
                So, bring the folded bote inside where it can warm up.
                 
                -Pete, in Tacoma WA

                --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Rickard <nilsson.rickard@...> wrote:


                From: Rickard <nilsson.rickard@...>
                Subject: Re: [California PortaBoters] Minimum temp for handling the Bote?
                To: PortaBote@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 9:03 PM


                 



                We have 5 degrees F (-15 Celsius)today and this weekend I want to unfold my boat that is stored outdoors at a shipyard to take some measures for a sonar mount. Can I do that without any risk for damages without warming it up in advance?

                Yes or no, please?

                Rickard

                --- In PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com, Merton Leeper <mertleeper@ ...> wrote:
                >
                > Rickard:
                >      I assemble my Bote in my garage, then put it into the bed of my pickup, lower the tonneau cover, and drive to the lake.  Once it is put together in the Spring, it stays in my garage until it is disassembled in the Fall.  Thus, it is put together once a season and taken down once each season.  Then it hangs on the ceiling, above my truck, during the ice fishing season.  Mert
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ____________ _________ _________ __
                > From: Rickard <nilsson.rickard@ ...>
                > To: PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com
                > Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 3:40:12 AM
                > Subject: Re: [California PortaBoters] Minimum temp for handling the Bote?
                >
                >  
                >
                >
                > Thanks all of you for your comments!
                >
                > Although there doesn't seem to be any simple answer in terms of an exact lower temp limit, the overall impression is that the bote can take rather harsh and cold conditions. Once on water there's no risk for failure and safety is of course the most important thing. But what about forcing up the hull with some kind of jack or tool when you don't have the muscles to open it yourself with the bote-opener? This situation can occur with a new bote in not so low temps. I have read the recommendation to store the bote indoors before opening it in cold weather, but I can't recall any ban against opening a cold hull, not even with tools - or have I missed something?
                >
                > (The sea doesn't freeze at the same moment air temperature pass below zero Celsius. It takes weeks and months to cool down the water mass and during that period a freak like me can get the idea to take a trip... By the end of february the ice use to be about one meter thick and the bote will hang in the garage, I promise!)
                >
                > Regards
                > Rickard
                >
                > --- In PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com, Merton Leeper <mertleeper@ ...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Rickard:
                > >      I use my Porta Bote in all kinds of conditions without problems.  This season, for instance, I was the first Bote on Antero Reservoir (smack dab in the middle of the Colorado Rockies at about 9000 ft.) and I actually had to slowly plow thru the ice two out of the four continuous days we fished.  No problems at all.  We just went slowly.  Ice cover was only about one fourth to one half inch.  And in the middle the lake was open.  Fished in weather in the mid-thirties for the last week of April and half of May.  No problems of any kind cropped up!!  Mert from Colorado
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                > > From: Rickard <nilsson.rickard@ ...>
                > > To: PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com
                > > Sent: Fri, November 27, 2009 2:34:29 PM
                > > Subject: [California PortaBoters] Minimum temp for handling the Bote?
                > >
                > >  
                > > Hi,
                > >
                > > I have asked my local dealer before but he doesn't know and it seems as he never got any answer from the manufacturer either. The problem is, the material used for the hull in a Porta-bote is a plastic developed by Italian scientists in the 30:s and 40:s (that had nothing to do with space-age as claimed in some Porta-bote advertisments) usually named polypropylene (PP). This material has a number of very favourable features but also one very significant drawback - it gets brittle at low temperatures. I live in an area where we use Celsius for temperature and the critical limit is, according to some polypropylene manufacturers, about -18 degrees Celsius. Noone uses the bote on water at that temperature because then ice covers the surface. But, for various reasons one might handle the bote, transport it, practise putting it together or whatever and then there could be a risk for damaging the hull at that temperature. As you probably have noticed, the
                hull
                > > is very thin along the edges where the pieces foldes. Along those critical lines the hull is NOT 5 mm thick, it's very much thinner. Therefore I'm rather concerned about this temperature issue because I love the bote, it's portability and everything, but cannot get this damned temp issue out of my mind. Polypropylene can be modified in many ways, I know that, please, anyone, tell me something that makes me forget about this issue! (Sorry, I already know about the Mt Everest story... just another Porta-bote trip in summer conditions, not at all convincing to a Swede). I would like to hear something like: the bote has been folded and unfolded 100000 times at -15 degrees Celsius without any sign of degradation of strenght.
                > >
                > > Thanks for every response!
                > > Rickard
                > > Porta-Bote lover in Sweden
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >











                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Rickard
                Thanks Pete, That s my gut-feeling too. What annoys me is that no representative of Porta-Bote has anything clear to say about this kind of situation. I have
                Message 7 of 30 , Feb 20, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Thanks Pete,

                  That's my gut-feeling too. What annoys me is that no representative of Porta-Bote has anything clear to say about this kind of situation. I have tried several times through several channels to get an answer but the impression this far is..... they simply don't know. The local dealer asks the manufacturer and the manufacturer forwards to my local dealer. Is that professional? The NASA (NASA has gone into everything and dismissed nearly 100%, perhaps also the polypropylene idea, who knows?) and Mt Everest stories contain nothing that tells me what I can do and what I cannot do.

                  I don't dare unfold my bote this weekend because the constructor and the dealer doesn't give clear answers, because of my guts and because what people say. I hope the bote is more than just a plastic toy that works well on a sunny summer day but breaks apart as soon someone tries its unknown limits.

                  I'm aware this sounds like whining but I'm seriously concerned because I had low temp plans for my bote, on water also, this winter and this persistent absence of clear facts has hampered me.

                  I'm a bit angry, I'm doubtful, I'm inquisitive and curious, and I'm still fond of my bote, don't worry.

                  Regards,
                  Rickard

                  --- In PortaBote@yahoogroups.com, "Pete, in Tacoma WA" <peder_y2k@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Don't do it. Wait till the bote hull temp is well above freezing, such as 45 degrees F. - not the air temp, the hull material temp. Better to wait till above 55, but who can wait that long? The lower the temp, the higher the strain on the polymer molecules, particularly at the stress points of the hinge area.
                  >  
                  > So, bring the folded bote inside where it can warm up.
                  >  
                  > -Pete, in Tacoma WA
                  >
                  > --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Rickard <nilsson.rickard@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > From: Rickard <nilsson.rickard@...>
                  > Subject: Re: [California PortaBoters] Minimum temp for handling the Bote?
                  > To: PortaBote@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 9:03 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > We have 5 degrees F (-15 Celsius)today and this weekend I want to unfold my boat that is stored outdoors at a shipyard to take some measures for a sonar mount. Can I do that without any risk for damages without warming it up in advance?
                  >
                  > Yes or no, please?
                  >
                  > Rickard
                  >
                  > --- In PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com, Merton Leeper <mertleeper@ ...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Rickard:
                  > >      I assemble my Bote in my garage, then put it into the bed of my pickup, lower the tonneau cover, and drive to the lake.  Once it is put together in the Spring, it stays in my garage until it is disassembled in the Fall.  Thus, it is put together once a season and taken down once each season.  Then it hangs on the ceiling, above my truck, during the ice fishing season.  Mert
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                  > > From: Rickard <nilsson.rickard@ ...>
                  > > To: PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com
                  > > Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 3:40:12 AM
                  > > Subject: Re: [California PortaBoters] Minimum temp for handling the Bote?
                  > >
                  > >  
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Thanks all of you for your comments!
                  > >
                  > > Although there doesn't seem to be any simple answer in terms of an exact lower temp limit, the overall impression is that the bote can take rather harsh and cold conditions. Once on water there's no risk for failure and safety is of course the most important thing. But what about forcing up the hull with some kind of jack or tool when you don't have the muscles to open it yourself with the bote-opener? This situation can occur with a new bote in not so low temps. I have read the recommendation to store the bote indoors before opening it in cold weather, but I can't recall any ban against opening a cold hull, not even with tools - or have I missed something?
                  > >
                  > > (The sea doesn't freeze at the same moment air temperature pass below zero Celsius. It takes weeks and months to cool down the water mass and during that period a freak like me can get the idea to take a trip... By the end of february the ice use to be about one meter thick and the bote will hang in the garage, I promise!)
                  > >
                  > > Regards
                  > > Rickard
                  > >
                  > > --- In PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com, Merton Leeper <mertleeper@ ...> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Rickard:
                  > > >      I use my Porta Bote in all kinds of conditions without problems.  This season, for instance, I was the first Bote on Antero Reservoir (smack dab in the middle of the Colorado Rockies at about 9000 ft.) and I actually had to slowly plow thru the ice two out of the four continuous days we fished.  No problems at all.  We just went slowly.  Ice cover was only about one fourth to one half inch.  And in the middle the lake was open.  Fished in weather in the mid-thirties for the last week of April and half of May.  No problems of any kind cropped up!!  Mert from Colorado
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                  > > > From: Rickard <nilsson.rickard@ ...>
                  > > > To: PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com
                  > > > Sent: Fri, November 27, 2009 2:34:29 PM
                  > > > Subject: [California PortaBoters] Minimum temp for handling the Bote?
                  > > >
                  > > >  
                  > > > Hi,
                  > > >
                  > > > I have asked my local dealer before but he doesn't know and it seems as he never got any answer from the manufacturer either. The problem is, the material used for the hull in a Porta-bote is a plastic developed by Italian scientists in the 30:s and 40:s (that had nothing to do with space-age as claimed in some Porta-bote advertisments) usually named polypropylene (PP). This material has a number of very favourable features but also one very significant drawback - it gets brittle at low temperatures. I live in an area where we use Celsius for temperature and the critical limit is, according to some polypropylene manufacturers, about -18 degrees Celsius. Noone uses the bote on water at that temperature because then ice covers the surface. But, for various reasons one might handle the bote, transport it, practise putting it together or whatever and then there could be a risk for damaging the hull at that temperature. As you probably have noticed, the
                  > hull
                  > > > is very thin along the edges where the pieces foldes. Along those critical lines the hull is NOT 5 mm thick, it's very much thinner. Therefore I'm rather concerned about this temperature issue because I love the bote, it's portability and everything, but cannot get this damned temp issue out of my mind. Polypropylene can be modified in many ways, I know that, please, anyone, tell me something that makes me forget about this issue! (Sorry, I already know about the Mt Everest story... just another Porta-bote trip in summer conditions, not at all convincing to a Swede). I would like to hear something like: the bote has been folded and unfolded 100000 times at -15 degrees Celsius without any sign of degradation of strenght.
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks for every response!
                  > > > Rickard
                  > > > Porta-Bote lover in Sweden
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Pete, in Tacoma WA
                  Using the bote in low temps is no problem, but folding and unfolding should be avoided. No point in pressing the limits. Even steel gets brittle and can easily
                  Message 8 of 30 , Feb 20, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Using the bote in low temps is no problem, but folding and unfolding should be avoided. No point in pressing the limits. Even steel gets brittle and can easily break at low enough temps., like 30 below. Gotta keep the stuff at proper temps. Ice road truckers can have problems with trailers that have been left out too long in the cold.
                     
                    The limiting factor is, don't be folding/unfolding the bote with hull material temperature that are so cold you can't keep your bare hands on them.
                     
                    -Pete, in Tacoma, WA

                    --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Rickard <nilsson.rickard@...> wrote:


                    From: Rickard <nilsson.rickard@...>
                    Subject: Re: [California PortaBoters] Minimum temp for handling the Bote?
                    To: PortaBote@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 12:29 AM


                     





                    Thanks Pete,

                    That's my gut-feeling too. What annoys me is that no representative of Porta-Bote has anything clear to say about this kind of situation. I have tried several times through several channels to get an answer but the impression this far is..... they simply don't know. The local dealer asks the manufacturer and the manufacturer forwards to my local dealer. Is that professional? The NASA (NASA has gone into everything and dismissed nearly 100%, perhaps also the polypropylene idea, who knows?) and Mt Everest stories contain nothing that tells me what I can do and what I cannot do.

                    I don't dare unfold my bote this weekend because the constructor and the dealer doesn't give clear answers, because of my guts and because what people say. I hope the bote is more than just a plastic toy that works well on a sunny summer day but breaks apart as soon someone tries its unknown limits.

                    I'm aware this sounds like whining but I'm seriously concerned because I had low temp plans for my bote, on water also, this winter and this persistent absence of clear facts has hampered me.

                    I'm a bit angry, I'm doubtful, I'm inquisitive and curious, and I'm still fond of my bote, don't worry.

                    Regards,
                    Rickard

                    --- In PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com, "Pete, in Tacoma WA" <peder_y2k@. ..> wrote:
                    >
                    > Don't do it. Wait till the bote hull temp is well above freezing, such as 45 degrees F. - not the air temp, the hull material temp. Better to wait till above 55, but who can wait that long? The lower the temp, the higher the strain on the polymer molecules, particularly at the stress points of the hinge area.
                    >  
                    > So, bring the folded bote inside where it can warm up.
                    >  
                    > -Pete, in Tacoma WA
                    >
                    > --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Rickard <nilsson.rickard@ ...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > From: Rickard <nilsson.rickard@ ...>
                    > Subject: Re: [California PortaBoters] Minimum temp for handling the Bote?
                    > To: PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com
                    > Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 9:03 PM
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > We have 5 degrees F (-15 Celsius)today and this weekend I want to unfold my boat that is stored outdoors at a shipyard to take some measures for a sonar mount. Can I do that without any risk for damages without warming it up in advance?
                    >
                    > Yes or no, please?
                    >
                    > Rickard
                    >
                    > --- In PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com, Merton Leeper <mertleeper@ ...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Rickard:
                    > >      I assemble my Bote in my garage, then put it into the bed of my pickup, lower the tonneau cover, and drive to the lake.  Once it is put together in the Spring, it stays in my garage until it is disassembled in the Fall.  Thus, it is put together once a season and taken down once each season.  Then it hangs on the ceiling, above my truck, during the ice fishing season.  Mert
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                    > > From: Rickard <nilsson.rickard@ ...>
                    > > To: PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com
                    > > Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 3:40:12 AM
                    > > Subject: Re: [California PortaBoters] Minimum temp for handling the Bote?
                    > >
                    > >  
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Thanks all of you for your comments!
                    > >
                    > > Although there doesn't seem to be any simple answer in terms of an exact lower temp limit, the overall impression is that the bote can take rather harsh and cold conditions. Once on water there's no risk for failure and safety is of course the most important thing. But what about forcing up the hull with some kind of jack or tool when you don't have the muscles to open it yourself with the bote-opener? This situation can occur with a new bote in not so low temps. I have read the recommendation to store the bote indoors before opening it in cold weather, but I can't recall any ban against opening a cold hull, not even with tools - or have I missed something?
                    > >
                    > > (The sea doesn't freeze at the same moment air temperature pass below zero Celsius. It takes weeks and months to cool down the water mass and during that period a freak like me can get the idea to take a trip... By the end of february the ice use to be about one meter thick and the bote will hang in the garage, I promise!)
                    > >
                    > > Regards
                    > > Rickard
                    > >
                    > > --- In PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com, Merton Leeper <mertleeper@ ...> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Rickard:
                    > > >      I use my Porta Bote in all kinds of conditions without problems.  This season, for instance, I was the first Bote on Antero Reservoir (smack dab in the middle of the Colorado Rockies at about 9000 ft.) and I actually had to slowly plow thru the ice two out of the four continuous days we fished.  No problems at all.  We just went slowly.  Ice cover was only about one fourth to one half inch.  And in the middle the lake was open.  Fished in weather in the mid-thirties for the last week of April and half of May.  No problems of any kind cropped up!!  Mert from Colorado
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                    > > > From: Rickard <nilsson.rickard@ ...>
                    > > > To: PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com
                    > > > Sent: Fri, November 27, 2009 2:34:29 PM
                    > > > Subject: [California PortaBoters] Minimum temp for handling the Bote?
                    > > >
                    > > >  
                    > > > Hi,
                    > > >
                    > > > I have asked my local dealer before but he doesn't know and it seems as he never got any answer from the manufacturer either. The problem is, the material used for the hull in a Porta-bote is a plastic developed by Italian scientists in the 30:s and 40:s (that had nothing to do with space-age as claimed in some Porta-bote advertisments) usually named polypropylene (PP). This material has a number of very favourable features but also one very significant drawback - it gets brittle at low temperatures. I live in an area where we use Celsius for temperature and the critical limit is, according to some polypropylene manufacturers, about -18 degrees Celsius. Noone uses the bote on water at that temperature because then ice covers the surface. But, for various reasons one might handle the bote, transport it, practise putting it together or whatever and then there could be a risk for damaging the hull at that temperature. As you probably have noticed, the
                    > hull
                    > > > is very thin along the edges where the pieces foldes. Along those critical lines the hull is NOT 5 mm thick, it's very much thinner. Therefore I'm rather concerned about this temperature issue because I love the bote, it's portability and everything, but cannot get this damned temp issue out of my mind. Polypropylene can be modified in many ways, I know that, please, anyone, tell me something that makes me forget about this issue! (Sorry, I already know about the Mt Everest story... just another Porta-bote trip in summer conditions, not at all convincing to a Swede). I would like to hear something like: the bote has been folded and unfolded 100000 times at -15 degrees Celsius without any sign of degradation of strenght.
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks for every response!
                    > > > Rickard
                    > > > Porta-Bote lover in Sweden
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >











                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • viktorwalraven
                    Don t worry, Sandy for sure will be able to answer this question. Kind Regards, Viktor.
                    Message 9 of 30 , Feb 21, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Don't worry, Sandy for sure will be able to answer this question. Kind Regards, Viktor.

                      --- In PortaBote@yahoogroups.com, "Pete, in Tacoma WA" <peder_y2k@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Using the bote in low temps is no problem, but folding and unfolding should be avoided. No point in pressing the limits. Even steel gets brittle and can easily break at low enough temps., like 30 below. Gotta keep the stuff at proper temps. Ice road truckers can have problems with trailers that have been left out too long in the cold.
                      >  
                      > The limiting factor is, don't be folding/unfolding the bote with hull material temperature that are so cold you can't keep your bare hands on them.
                      >  
                      > -Pete, in Tacoma, WA
                      >
                      > --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Rickard <nilsson.rickard@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > From: Rickard <nilsson.rickard@...>
                      > Subject: Re: [California PortaBoters] Minimum temp for handling the Bote?
                      > To: PortaBote@yahoogroups.com
                      > Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 12:29 AM
                      >
                      >
                      >  
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Thanks Pete,
                      >
                      > That's my gut-feeling too. What annoys me is that no representative of Porta-Bote has anything clear to say about this kind of situation. I have tried several times through several channels to get an answer but the impression this far is..... they simply don't know. The local dealer asks the manufacturer and the manufacturer forwards to my local dealer. Is that professional? The NASA (NASA has gone into everything and dismissed nearly 100%, perhaps also the polypropylene idea, who knows?) and Mt Everest stories contain nothing that tells me what I can do and what I cannot do.
                      >
                      > I don't dare unfold my bote this weekend because the constructor and the dealer doesn't give clear answers, because of my guts and because what people say. I hope the bote is more than just a plastic toy that works well on a sunny summer day but breaks apart as soon someone tries its unknown limits.
                      >
                      > I'm aware this sounds like whining but I'm seriously concerned because I had low temp plans for my bote, on water also, this winter and this persistent absence of clear facts has hampered me.
                      >
                      > I'm a bit angry, I'm doubtful, I'm inquisitive and curious, and I'm still fond of my bote, don't worry.
                      >
                      > Regards,
                      > Rickard
                      >
                      > --- In PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com, "Pete, in Tacoma WA" <peder_y2k@ ..> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Don't do it. Wait till the bote hull temp is well above freezing, such as 45 degrees F. - not the air temp, the hull material temp. Better to wait till above 55, but who can wait that long? The lower the temp, the higher the strain on the polymer molecules, particularly at the stress points of the hinge area.
                      > >  
                      > > So, bring the folded bote inside where it can warm up.
                      > >  
                      > > -Pete, in Tacoma WA
                      > >
                      > > --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Rickard <nilsson.rickard@ ...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > From: Rickard <nilsson.rickard@ ...>
                      > > Subject: Re: [California PortaBoters] Minimum temp for handling the Bote?
                      > > To: PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com
                      > > Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 9:03 PM
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >  
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > We have 5 degrees F (-15 Celsius)today and this weekend I want to unfold my boat that is stored outdoors at a shipyard to take some measures for a sonar mount. Can I do that without any risk for damages without warming it up in advance?
                      > >
                      > > Yes or no, please?
                      > >
                      > > Rickard
                      > >
                      > > --- In PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com, Merton Leeper <mertleeper@ ...> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Rickard:
                      > > >      I assemble my Bote in my garage, then put it into the bed of my pickup, lower the tonneau cover, and drive to the lake.  Once it is put together in the Spring, it stays in my garage until it is disassembled in the Fall.  Thus, it is put together once a season and taken down once each season.  Then it hangs on the ceiling, above my truck, during the ice fishing season.  Mert
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                      > > > From: Rickard <nilsson.rickard@ ...>
                      > > > To: PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com
                      > > > Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 3:40:12 AM
                      > > > Subject: Re: [California PortaBoters] Minimum temp for handling the Bote?
                      > > >
                      > > >  
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Thanks all of you for your comments!
                      > > >
                      > > > Although there doesn't seem to be any simple answer in terms of an exact lower temp limit, the overall impression is that the bote can take rather harsh and cold conditions. Once on water there's no risk for failure and safety is of course the most important thing. But what about forcing up the hull with some kind of jack or tool when you don't have the muscles to open it yourself with the bote-opener? This situation can occur with a new bote in not so low temps. I have read the recommendation to store the bote indoors before opening it in cold weather, but I can't recall any ban against opening a cold hull, not even with tools - or have I missed something?
                      > > >
                      > > > (The sea doesn't freeze at the same moment air temperature pass below zero Celsius. It takes weeks and months to cool down the water mass and during that period a freak like me can get the idea to take a trip... By the end of february the ice use to be about one meter thick and the bote will hang in the garage, I promise!)
                      > > >
                      > > > Regards
                      > > > Rickard
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com, Merton Leeper <mertleeper@ ...> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Rickard:
                      > > > > ÃÆ'‚ ÃÆ'‚ ÃÆ'‚ ÃÆ'‚  I use my Porta Bote in all kinds of conditions without problems.ÃÆ'‚  This season, for instance, I was the first Bote on Antero Reservoir (smack dab in the middle of the Colorado Rockies at about 9000 ft.)ÃÆ'‚ and I actually had to slowly plow thru the ice two out of the four continuous days we fished.ÃÆ'‚  No problems at all.ÃÆ'‚  We just went slowly.ÃÆ'‚  Ice cover was only about one fourth to one half inch.ÃÆ'‚  And in the middle the lake was open.ÃÆ'‚  Fished in weather in the mid-thirties for the last week of April and half of May.ÃÆ'‚  No problems of any kind cropped up!!ÃÆ'‚  Mert from Colorado
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                      > > > > From: Rickard <nilsson.rickard@ ...>
                      > > > > To: PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com
                      > > > > Sent: Fri, November 27, 2009 2:34:29 PM
                      > > > > Subject: [California PortaBoters] Minimum temp for handling the Bote?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
                      > > > > Hi,
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I have asked my local dealer before but he doesn't know and it seems as he never got any answer from the manufacturer either. The problem is, the material used for the hull in a Porta-bote is a plastic developed by Italian scientists in the 30:s and 40:s (that had nothing to do with space-age as claimed in some Porta-bote advertisments) usually named polypropylene (PP). This material has a number of very favourable features but also one very significant drawback - it gets brittle at low temperatures. I live in an area where we use Celsius for temperature and the critical limit is, according to some polypropylene manufacturers, about -18 degrees Celsius. Noone uses the bote on water at that temperature because then ice covers the surface. But, for various reasons one might handle the bote, transport it, practise putting it together or whatever and then there could be a risk for damaging the hull at that temperature. As you probably have noticed, the
                      > > hull
                      > > > > is very thin along the edges where the pieces foldes. Along those critical lines the hull is NOT 5 mm thick, it's very much thinner. Therefore I'm rather concerned about this temperature issue because I love the bote, it's portability and everything, but cannot get this damned temp issue out of my mind. Polypropylene can be modified in many ways, I know that, please, anyone, tell me something that makes me forget about this issue! (Sorry, I already know about the Mt Everest story... just another Porta-bote trip in summer conditions, not at all convincing to a Swede). I would like to hear something like: the bote has been folded and unfolded 100000 times at -15 degrees Celsius without any sign of degradation of strenght.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Thanks for every response!
                      > > > > Rickard
                      > > > > Porta-Bote lover in Sweden
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Glenn Branch
                      Hey, guys. Just a thought. Since portabote doesn t seem to have the answer, volunteer to get that answer. Ask portabote folks if you can be their research
                      Message 10 of 30 , Feb 21, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hey, guys. Just a thought. Since portabote doesn't seem to have the answer, volunteer to get that answer. Ask portabote folks if you can be their "research" arm on that particular question and ask for some sample material. Do a controlled piece in "room temperature" - at a stated degree. Then use other samples at varying degrees from freezing to well below that. And of course keep good records, even photo records. Then ask for a free bote or accessories for your efforts.

                        Obviously, once the bote is on the water, it will warm up to freezing or above simply because of the contact with the (unfrozen) water. Seems what you want to know is: at what temperature will the bote hinging area be compromised during setup or teardown. Experimentation will get you there, but not with your own bote!!

                        Go for it!

                        Glenn in Amarillo, TX





                        ________________________________
                        From: "Pete, in Tacoma WA" <peder_y2k@...>
                        To: PortaBote@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sat, February 20, 2010 10:30:56 PM
                        Subject: Re: [California PortaBoters] Minimum temp for handling the Bote?


                        Using the bote in low temps is no problem, but folding and unfolding should be avoided. No point in pressing the limits. Even steel gets brittle and can easily break at low enough temps., like 30 below. Gotta keep the stuff at proper temps. Ice road truckers can have problems with trailers that have been left out too long in the cold.

                        The limiting factor is, don't be folding/unfolding the bote with hull material temperature that are so cold you can't keep your bare hands on them.

                        -Pete, in Tacoma, WA

                        --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Rickard <nilsson.rickard@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                        From: Rickard <nilsson.rickard@ yahoo.com>
                        Subject: Re: [California PortaBoters] Minimum temp for handling the Bote?
                        To: PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com
                        Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 12:29 AM



                        Thanks Pete,

                        That's my gut-feeling too. What annoys me is that no representative of Porta-Bote has anything clear to say about this kind of situation. I have tried several times through several channels to get an answer but the impression this far is..... they simply don't know. The local dealer asks the manufacturer and the manufacturer forwards to my local dealer. Is that professional? The NASA (NASA has gone into everything and dismissed nearly 100%, perhaps also the polypropylene idea, who knows?) and Mt Everest stories contain nothing that tells me what I can do and what I cannot do.

                        I don't dare unfold my bote this weekend because the constructor and the dealer doesn't give clear answers, because of my guts and because what people say. I hope the bote is more than just a plastic toy that works well on a sunny summer day but breaks apart as soon someone tries its unknown limits.

                        I'm aware this sounds like whining but I'm seriously concerned because I had low temp plans for my bote, on water also, this winter and this persistent absence of clear facts has hampered me.

                        I'm a bit angry, I'm doubtful, I'm inquisitive and curious, and I'm still fond of my bote, don't worry.

                        Regards,
                        Rickard

                        --- In PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com, "Pete, in Tacoma WA" <peder_y2k@. ..> wrote:
                        >
                        > Don't do it. Wait till the bote hull temp is well above freezing, such as 45 degrees F. - not the air temp, the hull material temp. Better to wait till above 55, but who can wait that long? The lower the temp, the higher the strain on the polymer molecules, particularly at the stress points of the hinge area.
                        > Â
                        > So, bring the folded bote inside where it can warm up.
                        > Â
                        > -Pete, in Tacoma WA
                        >
                        > --- On Sat, 2/20/10, Rickard <nilsson.rickard@ ...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > From: Rickard <nilsson.rickard@ ...>
                        > Subject: Re: [California PortaBoters] Minimum temp for handling the Bote?
                        > To: PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com
                        > Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 9:03 PM
                        >
                        >
                        > Â
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > We have 5 degrees F (-15 Celsius)today and this weekend I want to unfold my boat that is stored outdoors at a shipyard to take some measures for a sonar mount. Can I do that without any risk for damages without warming it up in advance?
                        >
                        > Yes or no, please?
                        >
                        > Rickard
                        >
                        > --- In PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com, Merton Leeper <mertleeper@ ...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Rickard:
                        > >     I assemble my Bote in my garage, then put it into the bed of my pickup, lower the tonneau cover, and drive to the lake. Once it is put together in the Spring, it stays in my garage until it is disassembled in the Fall. Thus, it is put together once a season and taken down once each season. Then it hangs on the ceiling, above my truck, during the ice fishing season. Mert
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                        > > From: Rickard <nilsson.rickard@ ...>
                        > > To: PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com
                        > > Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 3:40:12 AM
                        > > Subject: Re: [California PortaBoters] Minimum temp for handling the Bote?
                        > >
                        > > ÂÂ
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Thanks all of you for your comments!
                        > >
                        > > Although there doesn't seem to be any simple answer in terms of an exact lower temp limit, the overall impression is that the bote can take rather harsh and cold conditions. Once on water there's no risk for failure and safety is of course the most important thing. But what about forcing up the hull with some kind of jack or tool when you don't have the muscles to open it yourself with the bote-opener? This situation can occur with a new bote in not so low temps. I have read the recommendation to store the bote indoors before opening it in cold weather, but I can't recall any ban against opening a cold hull, not even with tools - or have I missed something?
                        > >
                        > > (The sea doesn't freeze at the same moment air temperature pass below zero Celsius. It takes weeks and months to cool down the water mass and during that period a freak like me can get the idea to take a trip... By the end of february the ice use to be about one meter thick and the bote will hang in the garage, I promise!)
                        > >
                        > > Regards
                        > > Rickard
                        > >
                        > > --- In PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com, Merton Leeper <mertleeper@ ...> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Rickard:
                        > > >     I use my Porta Bote in all kinds of conditions without problems. This season, for instance, I was the first Bote on Antero Reservoir (smack dab in the middle of the Colorado Rockies at about 9000 ft.) and I actually had to slowly plow thru the ice two out of the four continuous days we fished. No problems at all. We just went slowly. Ice cover was only about one fourth to one half inch. And in the middle the lake was open. Fished in weather in the mid-thirties for the last week of April and half of May. No problems of any kind cropped up!! Mert from Colorado
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                        > > > From: Rickard <nilsson.rickard@ ...>
                        > > > To: PortaBote@yahoogrou ps.com
                        > > > Sent: Fri, November 27, 2009 2:34:29 PM
                        > > > Subject: [California PortaBoters] Minimum temp for handling the Bote?
                        > > >
                        > > > ÂÂÂ
                        > > > Hi,
                        > > >
                        > > > I have asked my local dealer before but he doesn't know and it seems as he never got any answer from the manufacturer either. The problem is, the material used for the hull in a Porta-bote is a plastic developed by Italian scientists in the 30:s and 40:s (that had nothing to do with space-age as claimed in some Porta-bote advertisments) usually named polypropylene (PP). This material has a number of very favourable features but also one very significant drawback - it gets brittle at low temperatures. I live in an area where we use Celsius for temperature and the critical limit is, according to some polypropylene manufacturers, about -18 degrees Celsius. Noone uses the bote on water at that temperature because then ice covers the surface. But, for various reasons one might handle the bote, transport it, practise putting it together or whatever and then there could be a risk for damaging the hull at that temperature. As you probably have noticed, the
                        > hull
                        > > > is very thin along the edges where the pieces foldes. Along those critical lines the hull is NOT 5 mm thick, it's very much thinner. Therefore I'm rather concerned about this temperature issue because I love the bote, it's portability and everything, but cannot get this damned temp issue out of my mind. Polypropylene can be modified in many ways, I know that, please, anyone, tell me something that makes me forget about this issue! (Sorry, I already know about the Mt Everest story... just another Porta-bote trip in summer conditions, not at all convincing to a Swede). I would like to hear something like: the bote has been folded and unfolded 100000 times at -15 degrees Celsius without any sign of degradation of strenght.
                        > > >
                        > > > Thanks for every response!
                        > > > Rickard
                        > > > Porta-Bote lover in Sweden
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.