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  • Michael Donovan
    Below is a thread going back to the argument on this list that Gerald Hawkins, who showed the diatonic in crop circles, did not discover new Euclidian
    Message 1 of 1 , Nov 4, 2004
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      Below is a thread going back to the argument on this list that Gerald Hawkins, who showed the diatonic in crop circles, did not discover new Euclidian Theorums.  Dee's attachement I will copy and paste to the next, subject 'Back to the weird 2'.
      **********thread read from bottom**************************
      Dee,
          You stated below, in regards to the new theorems, (quote), "...It was a lot of fun doing them." (unquote)  What an understatement, Dee, considering that you absolutly must, as do I, feel like the real 'Indiana Jones'.
          Hoping that my foot is not jamming up my mouth I am going to say that there could be, might be, possibly be a problem in that the 'new theorums' supposed are covered by, incorporated in, or 'all a part of' known, (not new), properties of regualar polygons.  Perhaps.  Maybe.  And to be frank I will go beyond 'not sure'.  Dee, I don't know.  That is why I separated the issues in the book.  The diatonic observations are good enough for me.
          I am on about 15 Internet math discussions groups.  The attack on Gerald Hawkins claims came from Polytopia, a Yahoo group.  And the guy who shot a hole in the concept of new Euclidian theorums is a great guy, sharp mind, but thinks crops circles a hoax or joke.  Talked about mowing them in the lawn for his kids.  In most all areas of math I consider this group 'my betters'.  So I am going to post both your file and this thread to it and see what happens.
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Dee Gragg" <deegragg@...>
      Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 5:53 PM
      Subject: Re: Analysis of The Miamisburg Formation; 3 Nov 2004

      > Hi Michael:
      >
      >    Thanks for your reply and very kind words.  Let me
      > first address the Euclidean theorems.  Dr. Hawkins
      > discovered and proved four theorems. 
      >
      >    After his death I wanted to read his proofs.  But I
      > could find no one who had the proofs or knew how to do
      > them.  So I undertook to prove them myself.  I was
      > successful in proving all four theorems (not without
      > considerable struggle). 
      >
      >    In the process I discovered five new theorems and
      > proved them as well making a total of nine; all
      > unknown to the mathematics world in general. 
      >
      >    Dr Hawkins checked Euclid's 12 volumes of theorems
      > and found that they were not in his work.  I too
      > checked and did not find them nor the five new ones
      > which I discovered.  Since I feel that this is of
      > interest to you I am sending the paper I wrote proving
      > all the theorems.
      >
      >   Now as to the Musical notes encoded in the circles.
      > They are not unrelated to the theorems.  In fact, all
      > four of Dr. Hawkins theorems are related to musical
      > notes.  Alas, I found that only two of mine were; F
      > below middle C and F two octaves below Middle C.
      >
      >   I hope you enjoy the theorems and the crop circles
      > as well.  It was a lot of fun doing them.
      >
      >    Please let me know if you have any further
      > questions or comments.
      >
      > Kindest Regards,
      > Dee
      > --- Michael Donovan <michael1@...> wrote:
      >
      > > This is an eyeopener,
      > >     I have much of a book, The Crop Circle Message,
      > > complete.  Over the past
      > > month I have recieved, (and seems that I am going
      > > with), an offer from a
      > > computer programer to put the material into a
      > > interactive computer program.
      > >     I am going to make one comment, and hope for
      > > some feedback and
      > > clairification.
      > >     But, first, this is just wonderful work.  The
      > > timing for me personally
      > > is mindblowing.
      > >     I have in front of me page 441 of The
      > > Mathematics Teacher, Vol 91, No.
      > > 5, May 1998 where Gerald Hawkins posted some of his
      > > concepts with a paid
      > > advertisment giving Boston University Research as
      > > the source.  I feel that
      > > it might, (I stress 'might'), be unfortunate that
      > > two issues have become
      > > intertwined.  One being the observation of diatonic
      > > (and now other...,)
      > > scales and notes being observed in crop circles, and
      > > the other the
      > > possibility of additional Euclidian theorms.  There
      > > has been a serious
      > > challange regarding the additional Euclidian theorm.
      > >  This came through the
      > > Polytopia yahoo math group, and these guys are no
      > > slouches.  Nor am I versed
      > > enough to form an opinion, particularly without more
      > > information.  I simply
      > > forwarded that information to Freddy Silva and never
      > > got a reply.  However,
      > > I was very unconcerned because I separate the
      > > issues.  The observation that
      > > the diationic 'crops' up again and again is for me
      > > far more exciting that
      > > the possibility of a new Euclidian theorm.  And I am
      > > suggesting that it
      > > 'might' be wise for all to make that separation
      > > until the new theorm
      > > question is resolved.  At least that is what I am
      > > doing.
      > >     That said, let me explain more why the timing of
      > > this was so
      > > mindblowing.  I am assuming for a moment that it is
      > > true that a 'sub' note
      > > (black key) now arrives.  I 'feel' there will be
      > > more.  Here are my
      > > reasons....:
      > >     1- The crop circles are a program of learning.
      > > As we 'get' the
      > > diationic 'they/it/whatever' can begin to add to it.
      > >     2- The new geometry is balls, lines and points
      > > don't exist.  It is akin
      > > to spherepacking, but you must also assume the balls
      > > are both vibrating and
      > > moving.  The key 'shape' it only in the 'center' in
      > > movement.  It must move
      > > to keep center.  The key shape is balls around
      > > balls, making a ball, a ball
      > > of 12 balls around one.  Say you start with the size
      > > of a pea.  13 of these
      > > can make another ball the size of a golf ball.  13
      > > of these can make another
      > > ball the size of a softball, and on and on in a
      > > geometric (logrithmic)
      > > progression.  If you examine any one of these groups
      > > you see seven 'rings'
      > > of vibration.  The seven rings are identical in
      > > angle, but not size (of
      > > course) to the next jump of balls, and THIS is the
      > > 'octave'.
      > >     3- There is a subset of 12 planes.  !!!!!!
      > > Harder to see , but now come
      > > the black keys.
      > >     Perhaps some of you have the September-October
      > > issue of Nexus.  Look on
      > > page 49, An Introduction to Global Scaling Theory by
      > > Dr. Harmut Muller.
      > > First he starts out by saying that there was a time
      > > that math was leading
      > > physics.  And it seems that for the past decades
      > > math has just been a
      > > stepchild of physics.  Except for some hints.... and
      > > here (as he calls it a
      > > 'goldmine')  is a biggie....;
      > >     (quote from pg 49, Dr. Muller) "...The first
      > > indication of the existence
      > > of this scientific goldmine came from biology.  As a
      > > rresult of 12 years of
      > > research, Cislenko published his 'Structurer of
      > > Fauna and Flora with Regard
      > > to Body Size of Organisms' (Moscow 1980).  He work
      > > documents what is
      > > probably the most important biological discovery in
      > > the 20th century.
      > > Cislenko was able to prove that segments of incresed
      > > species representation
      > > are repeated on the logrithmic line of body sized in
      > > equal intervals (aprox.
      > > 0.5 units of the decadic logarithm).  The phenomenon
      > > is not explicable from
      > > a biological point of view.  Why should mature
      > > individuals of amphibians,
      > > reptiles, fish, birds and mammals of different
      > > species find it similarly
      > > advantageous to have a body size in the range of
      > > 8-12 centimeters, 33-55
      > > centimeters or 1.5-2.4 meters?" (unquote, Dr.
      > > Muller)
      > >     Why indeed?
      > >     Unless...
      > >     Unless the organisms are jumping in maturity to
      > > octave fullnesses.
      > > Think again of the pea, golf ball, softball?
      > >     Dee, and all that worked on this new discovery,
      > > and there seem to be
      > > many involved.  Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful,
      > > wonderful.  Thank you,
      > > thank you, thank you.
      > >     Michael Donovan, Camden, ME
      > >     The New Geometry, www.midcoast.com/~michael1
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: "Dee Gragg" <deegragg@...>
      > > To: <cbajis@...>; <exopolitics@...>;
      > > <JDAIntiRa@...>;
      > > <jhbos5@...>; <marchu@...>;
      > > <Mark@...>;
      > > <markthurston@...>; <michael1@...>;
      > > <mntnhiker@...>;
      > > <mstewart@...>;
      > > <order@...>;
      > > <qala@...>; <rgarner@...>;
      > > <volconsumer@...>;
      > > <zy@...>
      > > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 7:11 PM
      > > Subject: Analysis of The Miamisburg Formation; 3 Nov
      > > 2004
      > >
      > >
      > > > Hi All:
      > > >
      > > >   First, Thank you all for your comments and
      > > > encouragement on the previous two papers.  You
      > > were
      > > > most kind and I appreciate it.
      > > >
      > > >    This paper presents the analysis of the United
      > > > States   Miamisburg Formation of 2004.  It is a
      > > sister
      > > > formation to the Locust Grove Formation of 2003. I
      > > > believe you will find it important for at least
      > > two
      > > > reasons.
      > > >
      > > >    (1) It strengthens the existing relationship
      > > > between crop circles and musical notes.
      > > >
      > > >    (2) It gives the first nondiatonic ratio found
      > > in
      > > > the formations.  For the first time we have found
      > > one
      > > > of the black piano keys!
      > > >
      > > >    I would be happy to have any of your comments
      > > and I
      > > > will try to answer any questions.
      > > >
      > > >    I hope to see many of you at the SIGNS of
      > > DESTINY
      > > > 2004 in Tempe November 19-22.  Dr. Snow has put
      > > > together another great program for us.
      > > >
      > > > Kindest Regards,
      > > > Dee
      > >
      > >
       
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