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A2/A2

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  • Flatness International
    Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for good reason. I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE s all-time best
    Message 1 of 30 , Jul 1, 2011
      Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for good reason.

      I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's all-time
      best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.

      He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are pleased....he is
      available now.

      Ron
      www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html
    • LYNN AUGSPURGER
      Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add him to the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index A2/A2 cow
      Message 2 of 30 , Jul 1, 2011
        Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add him to the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index A2/A2 cow (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least you can sell to the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
        Lynn Augspurger

        --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:


        From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
        Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
        To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM


         



        Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for good reason.

        I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's all-time
        best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.

        He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are pleased....he is
        available now.

        Ron
        www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html








        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Flatness International
        Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110. I ve had the 555 stud code number since 2006. Thanks for adding him to your list Ron www.flatnessintl.com ...
        Message 3 of 30 , Jul 2, 2011
          Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110.

          I've had the 555 stud code number since 2006.

          Thanks for adding him to your list

          Ron
          www.flatnessintl.com

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
          To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:07 PM
          Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2


          Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add him to the
          list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index A2/A2 cow
          (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least you can sell to
          the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
          Lynn Augspurger

          --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:


          From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
          Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
          To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM






          Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for good reason.

          I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's all-time
          best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.

          He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are pleased....he is
          available now.

          Ron
          www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html








          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • Flatness International
          Where is your list of A2/A2 bulls? Ron www.flatnessintl.com ... From: Flatness International To: Sent:
          Message 4 of 30 , Jul 3, 2011
            Where is your list of A2/A2 bulls?

            Ron
            www.flatnessintl.com

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
            To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:24 AM
            Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2


            > Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110.
            >
            > I've had the 555 stud code number since 2006.
            >
            > Thanks for adding him to your list
            >
            > Ron
            > www.flatnessintl.com
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
            > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:07 PM
            > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
            >
            >
            > Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add him to
            > the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index A2/A2
            > cow (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least you can
            > sell to the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
            > Lynn Augspurger
            >
            > --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
            > Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
            > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for good
            > reason.
            >
            > I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's
            > all-time
            > best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.
            >
            > He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are pleased....he is
            > available now.
            >
            > Ron
            > www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
          • LYNN AUGSPURGER
            The last list was on this discussion group August 2, 2010.  I am having trouble putting together a new list which includes 555HO00110 but it is not going
            Message 5 of 30 , Jul 4, 2011
              The last list was on this discussion group August 2, 2010.  I am having trouble putting together a new list which includes 555HO00110 but it is not going well. So I will post it when done. Lynn

              --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:


              From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
              Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
              To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:12 AM


               



              Where is your list of A2/A2 bulls?

              Ron
              www.flatnessintl.com

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
              To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:24 AM
              Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2

              > Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110.
              >
              > I've had the 555 stud code number since 2006.
              >
              > Thanks for adding him to your list
              >
              > Ron
              > www.flatnessintl.com
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
              > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:07 PM
              > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
              >
              >
              > Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add him to
              > the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index A2/A2
              > cow (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least you can
              > sell to the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
              > Lynn Augspurger
              >
              > --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
              > Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
              > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for good
              > reason.
              >
              > I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's
              > all-time
              > best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.
              >
              > He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are pleased....he is
              > available now.
              >
              > Ron
              > www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >








              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Flatness International
              Thanks Lynn, I understand A2/A2 milk is selling at health food stores in Aus and NZ at a premium. Any such activity seen in the US yet? Ron
              Message 6 of 30 , Jul 4, 2011
                Thanks Lynn,

                I understand A2/A2 milk is selling at health food stores in Aus and NZ at a
                premium. Any such activity seen in the US yet?

                Ron
                www.flatnessintl.com



                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 8:20 AM
                Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2


                The last list was on this discussion group August 2, 2010. I am having
                trouble putting together a new list which includes 555HO00110 but it is not
                going well. So I will post it when done. Lynn

                --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:


                From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:12 AM






                Where is your list of A2/A2 bulls?

                Ron
                www.flatnessintl.com

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:24 AM
                Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2

                > Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110.
                >
                > I've had the 555 stud code number since 2006.
                >
                > Thanks for adding him to your list
                >
                > Ron
                > www.flatnessintl.com
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:07 PM
                > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                >
                >
                > Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add him to
                > the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index A2/A2
                > cow (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least you can
                > sell to the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
                > Lynn Augspurger
                >
                > --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                > Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for good
                > reason.
                >
                > I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's
                > all-time
                > best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.
                >
                > He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are pleased....he is
                > available now.
                >
                > Ron
                > www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >








                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                ------------------------------------

                Yahoo! Groups Links
              • BRYAN QUANBURY
                Lynn, I have a couple of lists I found I will send to you. Bryan
                Message 7 of 30 , Jul 4, 2011
                  Lynn,

                  I have a couple of lists I found I will send to you.

                  Bryan

                  --- In PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com, LYNN AUGSPURGER <augspurger@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > The last list was on this discussion group August 2, 2010.  I am having trouble putting together a new list which includes 555HO00110 but it is not going well. So I will post it when done. Lynn
                  >
                  > --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                  > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                  > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:12 AM
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Where is your list of A2/A2 bulls?
                  >
                  > Ron
                  > www.flatnessintl.com
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                  > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:24 AM
                  > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                  >
                  > > Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110.
                  > >
                  > > I've had the 555 stud code number since 2006.
                  > >
                  > > Thanks for adding him to your list
                  > >
                  > > Ron
                  > > www.flatnessintl.com
                  > >
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                  > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:07 PM
                  > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add him to
                  > > the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index A2/A2
                  > > cow (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least you can
                  > > sell to the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
                  > > Lynn Augspurger
                  > >
                  > > --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                  > > Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                  > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for good
                  > > reason.
                  > >
                  > > I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's
                  > > all-time
                  > > best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.
                  > >
                  > > He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are pleased....he is
                  > > available now.
                  > >
                  > > Ron
                  > > www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Mark Yeazel
                  I did a couple searches on Google to see what I could find. A2A2 milk is listed as everything from that savior of health to a complete hoax with no credible
                  Message 8 of 30 , Jul 4, 2011
                    I did a couple searches on Google to see what I could find. A2A2 milk is
                    listed as everything from that savior of health to a complete hoax with no
                    credible research done. Which is true?

                    On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Flatness International <flintl@...>wrote:

                    > **
                    >
                    >
                    > Thanks Lynn,
                    >
                    > I understand A2/A2 milk is selling at health food stores in Aus and NZ at a
                    >
                    > premium. Any such activity seen in the US yet?
                    >
                    >
                    > Ron
                    > www.flatnessintl.com
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                    > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 8:20 AM
                    > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                    >
                    > The last list was on this discussion group August 2, 2010. I am having
                    > trouble putting together a new list which includes 555HO00110 but it is not
                    >
                    > going well. So I will post it when done. Lynn
                    >
                    > --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                    > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                    > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:12 AM
                    >
                    > Where is your list of A2/A2 bulls?
                    >
                    > Ron
                    > www.flatnessintl.com
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                    > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:24 AM
                    > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                    >
                    > > Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110.
                    > >
                    > > I've had the 555 stud code number since 2006.
                    > >
                    > > Thanks for adding him to your list
                    > >
                    > > Ron
                    > > www.flatnessintl.com
                    > >
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                    > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:07 PM
                    > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add him to
                    > > the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index A2/A2
                    > > cow (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least you can
                    > > sell to the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
                    > > Lynn Augspurger
                    > >
                    > > --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                    > > Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                    > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for good
                    > > reason.
                    > >
                    > > I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's
                    > > all-time
                    > > best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.
                    > >
                    > > He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are pleased....he is
                    > > available now.
                    > >
                    > > Ron
                    > > www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------------
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >



                    --
                    Mark Yeazel


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Flatness International
                    Often the truth is somewhere in the middle....the website....www.betacasein.net....seems to be fair and balanced My friend that grows organic potatoes just
                    Message 9 of 30 , Jul 4, 2011
                      Often the truth is somewhere in the middle....the
                      website....www.betacasein.net....seems to be fair and balanced

                      My friend that grows organic potatoes just smiles and enjoys his highly
                      overpaid income.

                      Is organic milk better than nornal milk ? Many consumers say yes. Many
                      organic dairymen are now buying only semen from A2/A2 bulls. Is the customer
                      always right...depends if you want to keep him.

                      Near the HFA headquarters in Vermont is the distr center for Whole Foods.
                      HFA employees have been on wage freezes. Whole Foods is enjoying a
                      bonanza.....is that right..no.... is it a fact...yes.

                      Ron
                      www.flatnessintl.com



                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Mark Yeazel" <y2kows@...>
                      To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 11:59 AM
                      Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2


                      >I did a couple searches on Google to see what I could find. A2A2 milk is
                      > listed as everything from that savior of health to a complete hoax with no
                      > credible research done. Which is true?
                      >
                      > On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Flatness International
                      > <flintl@...>wrote:
                      >
                      >> **
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Thanks Lynn,
                      >>
                      >> I understand A2/A2 milk is selling at health food stores in Aus and NZ at
                      >> a
                      >>
                      >> premium. Any such activity seen in the US yet?
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Ron
                      >> www.flatnessintl.com
                      >>
                      >> ----- Original Message -----
                      >> From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                      >> To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                      >> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 8:20 AM
                      >> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                      >>
                      >> The last list was on this discussion group August 2, 2010. I am having
                      >> trouble putting together a new list which includes 555HO00110 but it is
                      >> not
                      >>
                      >> going well. So I will post it when done. Lynn
                      >>
                      >> --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                      >>
                      >> From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                      >> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                      >> To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                      >> Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:12 AM
                      >>
                      >> Where is your list of A2/A2 bulls?
                      >>
                      >> Ron
                      >> www.flatnessintl.com
                      >>
                      >> ----- Original Message -----
                      >> From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                      >> To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                      >> Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:24 AM
                      >> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                      >>
                      >> > Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110.
                      >> >
                      >> > I've had the 555 stud code number since 2006.
                      >> >
                      >> > Thanks for adding him to your list
                      >> >
                      >> > Ron
                      >> > www.flatnessintl.com
                      >> >
                      >> > ----- Original Message -----
                      >> > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                      >> > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                      >> > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:07 PM
                      >> > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add him
                      >> > to
                      >> > the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index A2/A2
                      >> > cow (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least you
                      >> > can
                      >> > sell to the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
                      >> > Lynn Augspurger
                      >> >
                      >> > --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                      >> > Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                      >> > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                      >> > Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for good
                      >> > reason.
                      >> >
                      >> > I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's
                      >> > all-time
                      >> > best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.
                      >> >
                      >> > He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are pleased....he
                      >> > is
                      >> > available now.
                      >> >
                      >> > Ron
                      >> > www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > ------------------------------------
                      >> >
                      >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >>
                      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >>
                      >> ------------------------------------
                      >>
                      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > Mark Yeazel
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • LYNN AUGSPURGER
                      UK Guernsey Society requires bulls imported to be certified A2/A2. So there is some possible value, and certainly there are many consumers who think so.
                      Message 10 of 30 , Jul 4, 2011
                        UK Guernsey Society requires bulls imported to be certified A2/A2.
                        So there is some possible value, and certainly there are many consumers who think so.
                        http://ukguernsey.com/cms/the-news/1-latest-news/57-can-milk-help-autism.html
                        It it thought useful for juvenille diabetes and autism.
                        Lynn Augspurger

                        --- On Mon, 7/4/11, Mark Yeazel <y2kows@...> wrote:


                        From: Mark Yeazel <y2kows@...>
                        Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                        To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Monday, July 4, 2011, 11:59 AM


                        I did a couple searches on Google to see what I could find.  A2A2 milk is
                        listed as everything from that savior of health to a complete hoax with no
                        credible research done.  Which is true?

                        On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Flatness International <flintl@...>wrote:

                        > **
                        >
                        >
                        > Thanks Lynn,
                        >
                        > I understand A2/A2 milk is selling at health food stores in Aus and NZ at a
                        >
                        > premium. Any such activity seen in the US yet?
                        >
                        >
                        > Ron
                        > www.flatnessintl.com
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                        > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 8:20 AM
                        > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                        >
                        > The last list was on this discussion group August 2, 2010. I am having
                        > trouble putting together a new list which includes 555HO00110 but it is not
                        >
                        > going well. So I will post it when done. Lynn
                        >
                        > --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                        > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                        > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                        > Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:12 AM
                        >
                        > Where is your list of A2/A2 bulls?
                        >
                        > Ron
                        > www.flatnessintl.com
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                        > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:24 AM
                        > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                        >
                        > > Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110.
                        > >
                        > > I've had the 555 stud code number since 2006.
                        > >
                        > > Thanks for adding him to your list
                        > >
                        > > Ron
                        > > www.flatnessintl.com
                        > >
                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                        > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                        > > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:07 PM
                        > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add him to
                        > > the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index A2/A2
                        > > cow (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least you can
                        > > sell to the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
                        > > Lynn Augspurger
                        > >
                        > > --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                        > > Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                        > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for good
                        > > reason.
                        > >
                        > > I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's
                        > > all-time
                        > > best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.
                        > >
                        > > He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are pleased....he is
                        > > available now.
                        > >
                        > > Ron
                        > > www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ------------------------------------
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >

                        >



                        --
                        Mark Yeazel


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                        ------------------------------------

                        Yahoo! Groups Links





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Flatness International
                        the website is www.betacasein.org ... From: Flatness International To: Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011
                        Message 11 of 30 , Jul 4, 2011
                          the website is www.betacasein.org

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                          To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 1:14 PM
                          Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2


                          > Often the truth is somewhere in the middle....the
                          > website....www.betacasein.net....seems to be fair and balanced
                          >
                          > My friend that grows organic potatoes just smiles and enjoys his highly
                          > overpaid income.
                          >
                          > Is organic milk better than nornal milk ? Many consumers say yes. Many
                          > organic dairymen are now buying only semen from A2/A2 bulls. Is the
                          > customer
                          > always right...depends if you want to keep him.
                          >
                          > Near the HFA headquarters in Vermont is the distr center for Whole Foods.
                          > HFA employees have been on wage freezes. Whole Foods is enjoying a
                          > bonanza.....is that right..no.... is it a fact...yes.
                          >
                          > Ron
                          > www.flatnessintl.com
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "Mark Yeazel" <y2kows@...>
                          > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 11:59 AM
                          > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                          >
                          >
                          >>I did a couple searches on Google to see what I could find. A2A2 milk is
                          >> listed as everything from that savior of health to a complete hoax with
                          >> no
                          >> credible research done. Which is true?
                          >>
                          >> On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Flatness International
                          >> <flintl@...>wrote:
                          >>
                          >>> **
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>> Thanks Lynn,
                          >>>
                          >>> I understand A2/A2 milk is selling at health food stores in Aus and NZ
                          >>> at
                          >>> a
                          >>>
                          >>> premium. Any such activity seen in the US yet?
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>> Ron
                          >>> www.flatnessintl.com
                          >>>
                          >>> ----- Original Message -----
                          >>> From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                          >>> To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                          >>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 8:20 AM
                          >>> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                          >>>
                          >>> The last list was on this discussion group August 2, 2010. I am having
                          >>> trouble putting together a new list which includes 555HO00110 but it is
                          >>> not
                          >>>
                          >>> going well. So I will post it when done. Lynn
                          >>>
                          >>> --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                          >>>
                          >>> From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                          >>> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                          >>> To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                          >>> Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:12 AM
                          >>>
                          >>> Where is your list of A2/A2 bulls?
                          >>>
                          >>> Ron
                          >>> www.flatnessintl.com
                          >>>
                          >>> ----- Original Message -----
                          >>> From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                          >>> To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                          >>> Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:24 AM
                          >>> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                          >>>
                          >>> > Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110.
                          >>> >
                          >>> > I've had the 555 stud code number since 2006.
                          >>> >
                          >>> > Thanks for adding him to your list
                          >>> >
                          >>> > Ron
                          >>> > www.flatnessintl.com
                          >>> >
                          >>> > ----- Original Message -----
                          >>> > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                          >>> > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                          >>> > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:07 PM
                          >>> > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                          >>> >
                          >>> >
                          >>> > Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add him
                          >>> > to
                          >>> > the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index
                          >>> > A2/A2
                          >>> > cow (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least you
                          >>> > can
                          >>> > sell to the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
                          >>> > Lynn Augspurger
                          >>> >
                          >>> > --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                          >>> >
                          >>> >
                          >>> > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                          >>> > Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                          >>> > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                          >>> > Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM
                          >>> >
                          >>> >
                          >>> >
                          >>> >
                          >>> >
                          >>> >
                          >>> > Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for good
                          >>> > reason.
                          >>> >
                          >>> > I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's
                          >>> > all-time
                          >>> > best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.
                          >>> >
                          >>> > He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are pleased....he
                          >>> > is
                          >>> > available now.
                          >>> >
                          >>> > Ron
                          >>> > www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html
                          >>> >
                          >>> >
                          >>> >
                          >>> >
                          >>> >
                          >>> >
                          >>> >
                          >>> >
                          >>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >>> >
                          >>> >
                          >>> >
                          >>> > ------------------------------------
                          >>> >
                          >>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >>> >
                          >>> >
                          >>> >
                          >>>
                          >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >>>
                          >>> ------------------------------------
                          >>>
                          >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> --
                          >> Mark Yeazel
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> ------------------------------------
                          >>
                          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Mark Yeazel
                          I have heard reports, anecdotal of course, that claim the same about raw milk helping juvenile diabetes and autism. Interesting that the Weston Price (food
                          Message 12 of 30 , Jul 4, 2011
                            I have heard reports, anecdotal of course, that claim the same about raw
                            milk helping juvenile diabetes and autism. Interesting that the Weston
                            Price (food freedom, raw milk proponents, grazing) people are very
                            anti-Holstein. I wonder if this could be part of the reason. They are very
                            pro-Guernsey.

                            I do think Ron has it right, the consumer is always right. So if they want
                            A2A2, we need to pay attention. If they want polled, better find a polled
                            bull to use in the herd.

                            On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 1:21 PM, LYNN AUGSPURGER <augspurger@...>wrote:

                            > **
                            >
                            >
                            > UK Guernsey Society requires bulls imported to be certified A2/A2.
                            > So there is some possible value, and certainly there are many consumers who
                            > think so.
                            >
                            > http://ukguernsey.com/cms/the-news/1-latest-news/57-can-milk-help-autism.html
                            > It it thought useful for juvenille diabetes and autism.
                            > Lynn Augspurger
                            >
                            >
                            > --- On Mon, 7/4/11, Mark Yeazel <y2kows@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > From: Mark Yeazel <y2kows@...>
                            > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                            > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                            > Date: Monday, July 4, 2011, 11:59 AM
                            >
                            >
                            > I did a couple searches on Google to see what I could find. A2A2 milk is
                            > listed as everything from that savior of health to a complete hoax with no
                            > credible research done. Which is true?
                            >
                            > On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Flatness International <flintl@...
                            > >wrote:
                            >
                            > > **
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Thanks Lynn,
                            > >
                            > > I understand A2/A2 milk is selling at health food stores in Aus and NZ at
                            > a
                            > >
                            > > premium. Any such activity seen in the US yet?
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Ron
                            > > www.flatnessintl.com
                            > >
                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                            > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                            > > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 8:20 AM
                            > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                            > >
                            > > The last list was on this discussion group August 2, 2010. I am having
                            > > trouble putting together a new list which includes 555HO00110 but it is
                            > not
                            > >
                            > > going well. So I will post it when done. Lynn
                            > >
                            > > --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                            > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                            > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:12 AM
                            > >
                            > > Where is your list of A2/A2 bulls?
                            > >
                            > > Ron
                            > > www.flatnessintl.com
                            > >
                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                            > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                            > > Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:24 AM
                            > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                            > >
                            > > > Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110.
                            > > >
                            > > > I've had the 555 stud code number since 2006.
                            > > >
                            > > > Thanks for adding him to your list
                            > > >
                            > > > Ron
                            > > > www.flatnessintl.com
                            > > >
                            > > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                            > > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                            > > > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:07 PM
                            > > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add him
                            > to
                            > > > the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index A2/A2
                            > > > cow (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least you
                            > can
                            > > > sell to the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
                            > > > Lynn Augspurger
                            > > >
                            > > > --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                            > > > Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                            > > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for good
                            > > > reason.
                            > > >
                            > > > I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's
                            > > > all-time
                            > > > best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.
                            > > >
                            > > > He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are pleased....he
                            > is
                            > > > available now.
                            > > >
                            > > > Ron
                            > > > www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > ------------------------------------
                            > > >
                            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            > > ------------------------------------
                            > >
                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            > --
                            > Mark Yeazel
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >



                            --
                            Mark Yeazel


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Flatness International
                            As well as preventing heart disease. ... From: LYNN AUGSPURGER To: Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011
                            Message 13 of 30 , Jul 5, 2011
                              As well as preventing heart disease.

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                              To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 1:21 PM
                              Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2


                              UK Guernsey Society requires bulls imported to be certified A2/A2.
                              So there is some possible value, and certainly there are many consumers who
                              think so.
                              http://ukguernsey.com/cms/the-news/1-latest-news/57-can-milk-help-autism.html
                              It it thought useful for juvenille diabetes and autism.
                              Lynn Augspurger

                              --- On Mon, 7/4/11, Mark Yeazel <y2kows@...> wrote:


                              From: Mark Yeazel <y2kows@...>
                              Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                              To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Monday, July 4, 2011, 11:59 AM


                              I did a couple searches on Google to see what I could find. A2A2 milk is
                              listed as everything from that savior of health to a complete hoax with no
                              credible research done. Which is true?

                              On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Flatness International
                              <flintl@...>wrote:

                              > **
                              >
                              >
                              > Thanks Lynn,
                              >
                              > I understand A2/A2 milk is selling at health food stores in Aus and NZ at
                              > a
                              >
                              > premium. Any such activity seen in the US yet?
                              >
                              >
                              > Ron
                              > www.flatnessintl.com
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                              > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 8:20 AM
                              > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                              >
                              > The last list was on this discussion group August 2, 2010. I am having
                              > trouble putting together a new list which includes 555HO00110 but it is
                              > not
                              >
                              > going well. So I will post it when done. Lynn
                              >
                              > --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                              > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                              > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:12 AM
                              >
                              > Where is your list of A2/A2 bulls?
                              >
                              > Ron
                              > www.flatnessintl.com
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                              > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:24 AM
                              > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                              >
                              > > Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110.
                              > >
                              > > I've had the 555 stud code number since 2006.
                              > >
                              > > Thanks for adding him to your list
                              > >
                              > > Ron
                              > > www.flatnessintl.com
                              > >
                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                              > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                              > > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:07 PM
                              > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add him to
                              > > the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index A2/A2
                              > > cow (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least you can
                              > > sell to the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
                              > > Lynn Augspurger
                              > >
                              > > --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                              > > Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                              > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for good
                              > > reason.
                              > >
                              > > I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's
                              > > all-time
                              > > best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.
                              > >
                              > > He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are pleased....he
                              > > is
                              > > available now.
                              > >
                              > > Ron
                              > > www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ------------------------------------
                              > >
                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >



                              --
                              Mark Yeazel


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                              ------------------------------------

                              Yahoo! Groups Links





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                              ------------------------------------

                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                            • Flatness International
                              I heard a couple of days ago about a guy with organic Longhorns , but has a separate herd where he uses a polled bull from Burkets. The polled bull got in with
                              Message 14 of 30 , Jul 5, 2011
                                I heard a couple of days ago about a guy with organic Longhorns , but has a
                                separate herd where he uses a polled bull from Burkets.

                                The polled bull got in with the Longhorns somehow and got rid of those horns
                                on some, in one cross...doing what he should right.

                                Ron
                                www.flatnessintl.com

                                ----- Original Message -----

                                From: "Mark Yeazel" <y2kows@...>
                                To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 7:35 PM
                                Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2


                                >I have heard reports, anecdotal of course, that claim the same about raw
                                > milk helping juvenile diabetes and autism. Interesting that the Weston
                                > Price (food freedom, raw milk proponents, grazing) people are very
                                > anti-Holstein. I wonder if this could be part of the reason. They are
                                > very
                                > pro-Guernsey.
                                >
                                > I do think Ron has it right, the consumer is always right. So if they
                                > want
                                > A2A2, we need to pay attention. If they want polled, better find a polled
                                > bull to use in the herd.
                                >
                                > On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 1:21 PM, LYNN AUGSPURGER
                                > <augspurger@...>wrote:
                                >
                                >> **
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> UK Guernsey Society requires bulls imported to be certified A2/A2.
                                >> So there is some possible value, and certainly there are many consumers
                                >> who
                                >> think so.
                                >>
                                >> http://ukguernsey.com/cms/the-news/1-latest-news/57-can-milk-help-autism.html
                                >> It it thought useful for juvenille diabetes and autism.
                                >> Lynn Augspurger
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> --- On Mon, 7/4/11, Mark Yeazel <y2kows@...> wrote:
                                >>
                                >> From: Mark Yeazel <y2kows@...>
                                >> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                >> To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                >> Date: Monday, July 4, 2011, 11:59 AM
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> I did a couple searches on Google to see what I could find. A2A2 milk is
                                >> listed as everything from that savior of health to a complete hoax with
                                >> no
                                >> credible research done. Which is true?
                                >>
                                >> On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Flatness International <flintl@...
                                >> >wrote:
                                >>
                                >> > **
                                >> >
                                >> >
                                >> > Thanks Lynn,
                                >> >
                                >> > I understand A2/A2 milk is selling at health food stores in Aus and NZ
                                >> > at
                                >> a
                                >> >
                                >> > premium. Any such activity seen in the US yet?
                                >> >
                                >> >
                                >> > Ron
                                >> > www.flatnessintl.com
                                >> >
                                >> > ----- Original Message -----
                                >> > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                >> > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                >> > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 8:20 AM
                                >> > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                >> >
                                >> > The last list was on this discussion group August 2, 2010. I am having
                                >> > trouble putting together a new list which includes 555HO00110 but it is
                                >> not
                                >> >
                                >> > going well. So I will post it when done. Lynn
                                >> >
                                >> > --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                >> >
                                >> > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                >> > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                >> > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                >> > Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:12 AM
                                >> >
                                >> > Where is your list of A2/A2 bulls?
                                >> >
                                >> > Ron
                                >> > www.flatnessintl.com
                                >> >
                                >> > ----- Original Message -----
                                >> > From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                                >> > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                >> > Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:24 AM
                                >> > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                >> >
                                >> > > Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110.
                                >> > >
                                >> > > I've had the 555 stud code number since 2006.
                                >> > >
                                >> > > Thanks for adding him to your list
                                >> > >
                                >> > > Ron
                                >> > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                >> > >
                                >> > > ----- Original Message -----
                                >> > > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                >> > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                >> > > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:07 PM
                                >> > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                >> > >
                                >> > >
                                >> > > Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add him
                                >> to
                                >> > > the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index
                                >> > > A2/A2
                                >> > > cow (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least you
                                >> can
                                >> > > sell to the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
                                >> > > Lynn Augspurger
                                >> > >
                                >> > > --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                >> > >
                                >> > >
                                >> > > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                >> > > Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                >> > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                >> > > Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM
                                >> > >
                                >> > >
                                >> > >
                                >> > >
                                >> > >
                                >> > >
                                >> > > Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for good
                                >> > > reason.
                                >> > >
                                >> > > I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's
                                >> > > all-time
                                >> > > best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.
                                >> > >
                                >> > > He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are
                                >> > > pleased....he
                                >> is
                                >> > > available now.
                                >> > >
                                >> > > Ron
                                >> > > www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html
                                >> > >
                                >> > >
                                >> > >
                                >> > >
                                >> > >
                                >> > >
                                >> > >
                                >> > >
                                >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >> > >
                                >> > >
                                >> > >
                                >> > > ------------------------------------
                                >> > >
                                >> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >> > >
                                >> > >
                                >> > >
                                >> >
                                >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >> >
                                >> > ------------------------------------
                                >> >
                                >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >> >
                                >> >
                                >> >
                                >>
                                >> --
                                >> Mark Yeazel
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >>
                                >> ------------------------------------
                                >>
                                >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >>
                                >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --
                                > Mark Yeazel
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • BRYAN QUANBURY
                                Polled Organic Longhorns. Is there a customer for that?
                                Message 15 of 30 , Jul 5, 2011
                                  Polled Organic Longhorns.
                                  Is there a customer for that?


                                  --- In PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com, "Flatness International" <flintl@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I heard a couple of days ago about a guy with organic Longhorns , but has a
                                  > separate herd where he uses a polled bull from Burkets.
                                  >
                                  > The polled bull got in with the Longhorns somehow and got rid of those horns
                                  > on some, in one cross...doing what he should right.
                                  >
                                  > Ron
                                  > www.flatnessintl.com
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  >
                                  > From: "Mark Yeazel" <y2kows@...>
                                  > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 7:35 PM
                                  > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > >I have heard reports, anecdotal of course, that claim the same about raw
                                  > > milk helping juvenile diabetes and autism. Interesting that the Weston
                                  > > Price (food freedom, raw milk proponents, grazing) people are very
                                  > > anti-Holstein. I wonder if this could be part of the reason. They are
                                  > > very
                                  > > pro-Guernsey.
                                  > >
                                  > > I do think Ron has it right, the consumer is always right. So if they
                                  > > want
                                  > > A2A2, we need to pay attention. If they want polled, better find a polled
                                  > > bull to use in the herd.
                                  > >
                                  > > On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 1:21 PM, LYNN AUGSPURGER
                                  > > <augspurger@...>wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >> **
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >> UK Guernsey Society requires bulls imported to be certified A2/A2.
                                  > >> So there is some possible value, and certainly there are many consumers
                                  > >> who
                                  > >> think so.
                                  > >>
                                  > >> http://ukguernsey.com/cms/the-news/1-latest-news/57-can-milk-help-autism.html
                                  > >> It it thought useful for juvenille diabetes and autism.
                                  > >> Lynn Augspurger
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >> --- On Mon, 7/4/11, Mark Yeazel <y2kows@...> wrote:
                                  > >>
                                  > >> From: Mark Yeazel <y2kows@...>
                                  > >> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                  > >> To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                  > >> Date: Monday, July 4, 2011, 11:59 AM
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >> I did a couple searches on Google to see what I could find. A2A2 milk is
                                  > >> listed as everything from that savior of health to a complete hoax with
                                  > >> no
                                  > >> credible research done. Which is true?
                                  > >>
                                  > >> On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Flatness International <flintl@...
                                  > >> >wrote:
                                  > >>
                                  > >> > **
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> > Thanks Lynn,
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> > I understand A2/A2 milk is selling at health food stores in Aus and NZ
                                  > >> > at
                                  > >> a
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> > premium. Any such activity seen in the US yet?
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> > Ron
                                  > >> > www.flatnessintl.com
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > >> > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                  > >> > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > >> > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 8:20 AM
                                  > >> > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> > The last list was on this discussion group August 2, 2010. I am having
                                  > >> > trouble putting together a new list which includes 555HO00110 but it is
                                  > >> not
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> > going well. So I will post it when done. Lynn
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> > --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                  > >> > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                  > >> > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                  > >> > Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:12 AM
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> > Where is your list of A2/A2 bulls?
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> > Ron
                                  > >> > www.flatnessintl.com
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > >> > From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                                  > >> > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > >> > Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:24 AM
                                  > >> > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> > > Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110.
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > > I've had the 555 stud code number since 2006.
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > > Thanks for adding him to your list
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > > Ron
                                  > >> > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > >> > > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                  > >> > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > >> > > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:07 PM
                                  > >> > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > > Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add him
                                  > >> to
                                  > >> > > the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index
                                  > >> > > A2/A2
                                  > >> > > cow (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least you
                                  > >> can
                                  > >> > > sell to the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
                                  > >> > > Lynn Augspurger
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > > --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                  > >> > > Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                  > >> > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                  > >> > > Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > > Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for good
                                  > >> > > reason.
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > > I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's
                                  > >> > > all-time
                                  > >> > > best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > > He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are
                                  > >> > > pleased....he
                                  > >> is
                                  > >> > > available now.
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > > Ron
                                  > >> > > www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > > ------------------------------------
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> > >
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> > ------------------------------------
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> >
                                  > >> >
                                  > >>
                                  > >> --
                                  > >> Mark Yeazel
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >>
                                  > >> ------------------------------------
                                  > >>
                                  > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >>
                                  > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --
                                  > > Mark Yeazel
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ------------------------------------
                                  > >
                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • Flatness International
                                  No... Longhorns is all about the longest horns and the longest are on steers. ... From: BRYAN QUANBURY To:
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Jul 5, 2011
                                    No... Longhorns is all about the longest horns and the longest are on
                                    steers.

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "BRYAN QUANBURY" <bquanbury@...>
                                    To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 8:38 AM
                                    Subject: [PolledDairyCows] Re: A2/A2


                                    > Polled Organic Longhorns.
                                    > Is there a customer for that?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com, "Flatness International"
                                    > <flintl@...> wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >> I heard a couple of days ago about a guy with organic Longhorns , but has
                                    >> a
                                    >> separate herd where he uses a polled bull from Burkets.
                                    >>
                                    >> The polled bull got in with the Longhorns somehow and got rid of those
                                    >> horns
                                    >> on some, in one cross...doing what he should right.
                                    >>
                                    >> Ron
                                    >> www.flatnessintl.com
                                    >>
                                    >> ----- Original Message -----
                                    >>
                                    >> From: "Mark Yeazel" <y2kows@...>
                                    >> To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                    >> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 7:35 PM
                                    >> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> >I have heard reports, anecdotal of course, that claim the same about raw
                                    >> > milk helping juvenile diabetes and autism. Interesting that the Weston
                                    >> > Price (food freedom, raw milk proponents, grazing) people are very
                                    >> > anti-Holstein. I wonder if this could be part of the reason. They are
                                    >> > very
                                    >> > pro-Guernsey.
                                    >> >
                                    >> > I do think Ron has it right, the consumer is always right. So if they
                                    >> > want
                                    >> > A2A2, we need to pay attention. If they want polled, better find a
                                    >> > polled
                                    >> > bull to use in the herd.
                                    >> >
                                    >> > On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 1:21 PM, LYNN AUGSPURGER
                                    >> > <augspurger@...>wrote:
                                    >> >
                                    >> >> **
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >> UK Guernsey Society requires bulls imported to be certified A2/A2.
                                    >> >> So there is some possible value, and certainly there are many
                                    >> >> consumers
                                    >> >> who
                                    >> >> think so.
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >> http://ukguernsey.com/cms/the-news/1-latest-news/57-can-milk-help-autism.html
                                    >> >> It it thought useful for juvenille diabetes and autism.
                                    >> >> Lynn Augspurger
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >> --- On Mon, 7/4/11, Mark Yeazel <y2kows@...> wrote:
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >> From: Mark Yeazel <y2kows@...>
                                    >> >> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                    >> >> To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                    >> >> Date: Monday, July 4, 2011, 11:59 AM
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >> I did a couple searches on Google to see what I could find. A2A2 milk
                                    >> >> is
                                    >> >> listed as everything from that savior of health to a complete hoax
                                    >> >> with
                                    >> >> no
                                    >> >> credible research done. Which is true?
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >> On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Flatness International <flintl@...
                                    >> >> >wrote:
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >> > **
                                    >> >> >
                                    >> >> >
                                    >> >> > Thanks Lynn,
                                    >> >> >
                                    >> >> > I understand A2/A2 milk is selling at health food stores in Aus and
                                    >> >> > NZ
                                    >> >> > at
                                    >> >> a
                                    >> >> >
                                    >> >> > premium. Any such activity seen in the US yet?
                                    >> >> >
                                    >> >> >
                                    >> >> > Ron
                                    >> >> > www.flatnessintl.com
                                    >> >> >
                                    >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
                                    >> >> > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                    >> >> > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                    >> >> > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 8:20 AM
                                    >> >> > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                    >> >> >
                                    >> >> > The last list was on this discussion group August 2, 2010. I am
                                    >> >> > having
                                    >> >> > trouble putting together a new list which includes 555HO00110 but it
                                    >> >> > is
                                    >> >> not
                                    >> >> >
                                    >> >> > going well. So I will post it when done. Lynn
                                    >> >> >
                                    >> >> > --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                    >> >> >
                                    >> >> > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                    >> >> > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                    >> >> > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                    >> >> > Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:12 AM
                                    >> >> >
                                    >> >> > Where is your list of A2/A2 bulls?
                                    >> >> >
                                    >> >> > Ron
                                    >> >> > www.flatnessintl.com
                                    >> >> >
                                    >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
                                    >> >> > From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                                    >> >> > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                    >> >> > Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:24 AM
                                    >> >> > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                    >> >> >
                                    >> >> > > Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110.
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > > I've had the 555 stud code number since 2006.
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > > Thanks for adding him to your list
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > > Ron
                                    >> >> > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    >> >> > > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                    >> >> > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                    >> >> > > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:07 PM
                                    >> >> > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > > Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add
                                    >> >> > > him
                                    >> >> to
                                    >> >> > > the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index
                                    >> >> > > A2/A2
                                    >> >> > > cow (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least
                                    >> >> > > you
                                    >> >> can
                                    >> >> > > sell to the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
                                    >> >> > > Lynn Augspurger
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > > --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                    >> >> > > Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                    >> >> > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                    >> >> > > Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > > Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for
                                    >> >> > > good
                                    >> >> > > reason.
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > > I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's
                                    >> >> > > all-time
                                    >> >> > > best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > > He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are
                                    >> >> > > pleased....he
                                    >> >> is
                                    >> >> > > available now.
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > > Ron
                                    >> >> > > www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > > ------------------------------------
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> > >
                                    >> >> >
                                    >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >> >> >
                                    >> >> > ------------------------------------
                                    >> >> >
                                    >> >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >> >> >
                                    >> >> >
                                    >> >> >
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >> --
                                    >> >> Mark Yeazel
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >> ------------------------------------
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >>
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> > --
                                    >> > Mark Yeazel
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> > ------------------------------------
                                    >> >
                                    >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Greg Palen
                                    The original research on A2A2 Beta Casein was done in New Zealand in the 1980s. The researcher involved had health issues to which he eventually succumbed,
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Jul 5, 2011
                                      The original research on A2A2 Beta Casein was done in New Zealand in the 1980s. The researcher involved had health issues to which he eventually succumbed, around the time Fonterra and other established dairy interests essentially debunked his conclusions (which had been based on fairly limited data), believing they were "protecting" the dairy industry.

                                      A decade or so later this material was reviewed by someone who decided it should be done in a more organized fashion. I have seen references to seventy studies-- done mostly in Europe (many of them funded by the UN's World Health Organization) that do support the original NZ conclusions. The Weston Price Foundation became involved after this point. It is but one of the many food health issues that this Foundation pursues, and much of their viewpoint will show up in the "Acres USA" publications, alongside the views of Joel Salatin, Jo Robinson, or Michael Pollan; and in "The Milkweed" of Peter Hardin (the food activists concerned with various practices in dairy).

                                      A2A2 Beta Casein is in that same limbo that rBST fell into-- when ag researchers line up to prove or disprove something that could have major commercial consequences (A2 vs A1 is a major challenge to continued "pooling" of milk supplies by milk cooperatives who prefer to market milk as a volume commodity, rather than as a differentiable product capable of some premium market sectors). The fact no one eats just milk-- and that myriad variation in the total production process for milk exists-- makes studying single gene effects on health difficult if not impossible to verify, which is why ultimately we just fall back on broad inference from large bodies of statistics (a process many biologists find suspect).

                                      The A1 mutation of Beta Casein, which only occurs in bovines-- not in humans, goats, water buffalos, or any other mammalian specie ever tested-- appears to raise a challenge to the "pure" reputation of COW milk as a health food, not against milk in any other specie. But the identification of a simple qualitative gene that can be removed by selective breeding (as we might do with more difficulty with any lethal recessive) is not a challenge to cow milk as much as it is to continuing narrow breeding focuses that basically ignore the consumer's interest in our practices. The identification of the A2 gene as having major positive health aspects is "the road to redemption" for the bovine species, in its essence an affirmation of our belief that "milk is good for the body".

                                      Stoneyfield Yogurt is encouraging Organic Valley (CROPP) members to (1) test their herds for A2, (2) use only A2A2 sires, (3) remove A1 cows as they breed A2 replacements; they wish to quickly develop A2A2 (homozygous A2) herds so that their product can be labelled as produced by homozygous A2 cows. The idea of organic producers using "science" (as the technology adapting sector understands the term) as a basis for product differentiation to earn premium prices is novel, if not disturbing, to most mainstream observers in our food industries who are complacent about the commoditization of milk as an industrial input.

                                      The bias in favor of Guernseys reflects that 90+% of the Guernsey cows tested (on three continents) show as heterozygous or homozygous A2. There is no negative bias against Holsteins, which test as 50% A2 (note a majority of the LIC Friesian-type Holsteins active in AI are homozygous A2A2) -- Jerseys test globally as 60% A2. If there is a negative bias it would be against non-Holstein Red breeds, which are only 30% to 40% A2. (Thus the organic grazing guy who followed the peer pressure into red breed crosses may be behind his purebred Jersey or Holstein contemporaries in reaching this goal.)

                                      Will we ever know with certainty if the A2 vs A1 controversy has scientific merit?

                                      In answer, will we ever return to a stage when any ag research is "pure" (not funded by animal rights, or environmental activists, or established commercial interests seeking to create non-tariff trade barriers against entrepeneurial competition) and in addition, see universal acceptance of any conclusions that affect established commercial power?

                                      The point to understand about A2 is that it tends to be favored in the organic dairy sector and generally ignored in the conventional (commodity milk) sector. Thus-- like polled-- it is a genetic side street, where selecting in favor of A2 will gain you genetic customers within a market niche rather than the index mainstream.

                                      It is clearly not an issue with consumers outside of those seeking organic or "real" [raw] milk-- but heaven help us if the AMA latches onto this issue in any of their doctors' focus on autoimmune diseases. (Heart doctors created the margarine industry as a competitor for butter-- on what we now know to be "flawed" science. Misled grandmothers still teach the margarine gospel to their anorexic granddaughters, as they paved the way for their daughters to be the original obese vegetarian generation.)

                                      As Ron's recent post indicates, mainstream breeding can be easily combined to produce A2A2 sires. The Savage Leigh Bellwood Linda and Beachlawn Blwood L Lily [high index] cow lines have both produced A2A2 sons. Taurus' +2.89 Type "Morracco" bull [Roy x Outside-- a frequently duplicated pedigree] is A2A2 also. Mr Sam [Durham son] at Select is A2A2. Many higher profile Jersey sires [eg, Forest Glen Avery Action] are A2A2.

                                      If the Holstein breed is already 50% A2 but is less than 1% polled, it would be a much easier market to pursue. (Our latest two Jersey herdsires are both polled and A2A2 Beta Casein, the Michigan grazing/organic dairy market for Jersey bulls is large enough to absorb all we would choose to raise in this combination.)

                                      Greg Palen

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Flatness International
                                      To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 7:21 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2



                                      As well as preventing heart disease.

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                      To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 1:21 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2

                                      UK Guernsey Society requires bulls imported to be certified A2/A2.
                                      So there is some possible value, and certainly there are many consumers who
                                      think so.
                                      http://ukguernsey.com/cms/the-news/1-latest-news/57-can-milk-help-autism.html
                                      It it thought useful for juvenille diabetes and autism.
                                      Lynn Augspurger

                                      --- On Mon, 7/4/11, Mark Yeazel <y2kows@...> wrote:

                                      From: Mark Yeazel <y2kows@...>
                                      Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                      To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                      Date: Monday, July 4, 2011, 11:59 AM

                                      I did a couple searches on Google to see what I could find. A2A2 milk is
                                      listed as everything from that savior of health to a complete hoax with no
                                      credible research done. Which is true?

                                      On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Flatness International
                                      <flintl@...>wrote:

                                      > **
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Thanks Lynn,
                                      >
                                      > I understand A2/A2 milk is selling at health food stores in Aus and NZ at
                                      > a
                                      >
                                      > premium. Any such activity seen in the US yet?
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Ron
                                      > www.flatnessintl.com
                                      >
                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                      > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                      > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 8:20 AM
                                      > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                      >
                                      > The last list was on this discussion group August 2, 2010. I am having
                                      > trouble putting together a new list which includes 555HO00110 but it is
                                      > not
                                      >
                                      > going well. So I will post it when done. Lynn
                                      >
                                      > --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                      > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                      > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:12 AM
                                      >
                                      > Where is your list of A2/A2 bulls?
                                      >
                                      > Ron
                                      > www.flatnessintl.com
                                      >
                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                                      > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                      > Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:24 AM
                                      > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                      >
                                      > > Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110.
                                      > >
                                      > > I've had the 555 stud code number since 2006.
                                      > >
                                      > > Thanks for adding him to your list
                                      > >
                                      > > Ron
                                      > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                      > >
                                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                      > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                      > > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:07 PM
                                      > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add him to
                                      > > the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index A2/A2
                                      > > cow (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least you can
                                      > > sell to the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
                                      > > Lynn Augspurger
                                      > >
                                      > > --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                      > > Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                      > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for good
                                      > > reason.
                                      > >
                                      > > I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's
                                      > > all-time
                                      > > best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.
                                      > >
                                      > > He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are pleased....he
                                      > > is
                                      > > available now.
                                      > >
                                      > > Ron
                                      > > www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > ------------------------------------
                                      > >
                                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      > ------------------------------------
                                      >
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >

                                      --
                                      Mark Yeazel

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                      ------------------------------------

                                      Yahoo! Groups Links

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                      ------------------------------------

                                      Yahoo! Groups Links








                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Greg Palen
                                      Holstein USA vs Whole Foods... classic and basic economics. The supply of people kept on staff at Brattleboro VT given today s communication and data
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Jul 5, 2011
                                        Holstein USA vs Whole Foods... classic and basic economics.

                                        The "supply" of people kept on staff at Brattleboro VT given today's communication and data collation technology, dramatically exceeds the "demand" for their services. (Plus you see the inefficiency of being hundreds if not thousands of miles from your current membership.
                                        Brattelboro VT is now "ski country" no longer "cow country".)

                                        You have a cow best suited for the 40% of the market that drinks fluid milk, but thanks to the foresight of Holstein leadership to exert power in Washington DC in the 1960s and 1970s, we see 92% of all dairy cows are Holstein. Can the Holstein breed still grow, justifying we keep all these extra people on staff, or has it peaked?

                                        This is the classic economic expression of a "matured" market. Holsteins are a matured breed in any economic sense. Existing infrastructure is capable of supporting Holstein breeders and the Holstein cow now and into the future. More importantly, the market is saying (in light of ET technology and Genomic technology) we no longer need all these existing Holstein breeders-- so demand for registration of calves, and all services such as pedigrees that are based on that registry, is not going to grow .

                                        Whole Foods, on the other hand, is part of a growth market-- the market for "premium" food, for food whose origin is known, for food whose production process is specified, for food fits some epicure's definition of added quality. (Not just the "organic" catchall, Whole Foods has gone way beyond simple organic).

                                        When you are in a growth industry, economics are in your favor. Resources (including money, but more importantly, people) are entering your industry. You have not yet reached that point where your products are so ubiquitous as to become commodities-- differences on which premium prices can be based are sought out, not marginalized (as we have seen in the dairy business-- lower the value of butterfat, lower the value of protein, ignore the value of variable vitamin and mineral content, deny the value of living digestive enzymes, cook out any differences in flavor, homogenize, separate and reconstitute, "commoditize").

                                        So Whole Foods can pay more, and attract better (smarter, more productive) people, while dodgy old "traditional" organizations in matured activities become repositories for ski bums who only work the minimum to pay for playing at the maximum, or for mental burnouts who have no future vision but cling to memories of past glories, thus can (and should) pay less.

                                        The dairy industry owes Holstein USA no obligation to pay its people more. In any market the consumer sets the price for value received. If Holstein cannot provide more value it also cannot demand higher prices. Its current CEO seems to understand that, but gets little help from his staff -- or his membership-- in figuring out how to add value.

                                        Trying to turn milk pricing back to the class I premium glory days of the 1970s is not going to help any, either, in spite of all efforts to deny that the cow's basic profitability on all levels-- (not just production but reproduction and feed efficiency)-- and fitness for adapting to the environmental changes in the industry, to determine her future share of the market, is always the issue in surviving if not thriving in any matured industry.

                                        Greg Palen

                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: Flatness International
                                        To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 1:46 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2



                                        the website is www.betacasein.org

                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                                        To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 1:14 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2

                                        > Often the truth is somewhere in the middle....the
                                        > website....www.betacasein.net....seems to be fair and balanced
                                        >
                                        > My friend that grows organic potatoes just smiles and enjoys his highly
                                        > overpaid income.
                                        >
                                        > Is organic milk better than nornal milk ? Many consumers say yes. Many
                                        > organic dairymen are now buying only semen from A2/A2 bulls. Is the
                                        > customer
                                        > always right...depends if you want to keep him.
                                        >
                                        > Near the HFA headquarters in Vermont is the distr center for Whole Foods.
                                        > HFA employees have been on wage freezes. Whole Foods is enjoying a
                                        > bonanza.....is that right..no.... is it a fact...yes.
                                        >
                                        > Ron
                                        > www.flatnessintl.com
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: "Mark Yeazel" <y2kows@...>
                                        > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                        > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 11:59 AM
                                        > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >>I did a couple searches on Google to see what I could find. A2A2 milk is
                                        >> listed as everything from that savior of health to a complete hoax with
                                        >> no
                                        >> credible research done. Which is true?
                                        >>
                                        >> On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Flatness International
                                        >> <flintl@...>wrote:
                                        >>
                                        >>> **
                                        >>>
                                        >>>
                                        >>> Thanks Lynn,
                                        >>>
                                        >>> I understand A2/A2 milk is selling at health food stores in Aus and NZ
                                        >>> at
                                        >>> a
                                        >>>
                                        >>> premium. Any such activity seen in the US yet?
                                        >>>
                                        >>>
                                        >>> Ron
                                        >>> www.flatnessintl.com
                                        >>>
                                        >>> ----- Original Message -----
                                        >>> From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                        >>> To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                        >>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 8:20 AM
                                        >>> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                        >>>
                                        >>> The last list was on this discussion group August 2, 2010. I am having
                                        >>> trouble putting together a new list which includes 555HO00110 but it is
                                        >>> not
                                        >>>
                                        >>> going well. So I will post it when done. Lynn
                                        >>>
                                        >>> --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                        >>>
                                        >>> From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                        >>> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                        >>> To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                        >>> Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:12 AM
                                        >>>
                                        >>> Where is your list of A2/A2 bulls?
                                        >>>
                                        >>> Ron
                                        >>> www.flatnessintl.com
                                        >>>
                                        >>> ----- Original Message -----
                                        >>> From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                                        >>> To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                        >>> Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:24 AM
                                        >>> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                        >>>
                                        >>> > Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110.
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> > I've had the 555 stud code number since 2006.
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> > Thanks for adding him to your list
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> > Ron
                                        >>> > www.flatnessintl.com
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> > ----- Original Message -----
                                        >>> > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                        >>> > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                        >>> > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:07 PM
                                        >>> > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> > Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add him
                                        >>> > to
                                        >>> > the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index
                                        >>> > A2/A2
                                        >>> > cow (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least you
                                        >>> > can
                                        >>> > sell to the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
                                        >>> > Lynn Augspurger
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> > --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                        >>> > Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                        >>> > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                        >>> > Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> > Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for good
                                        >>> > reason.
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> > I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's
                                        >>> > all-time
                                        >>> > best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> > He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are pleased....he
                                        >>> > is
                                        >>> > available now.
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> > Ron
                                        >>> > www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> > ------------------------------------
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> >
                                        >>> >
                                        >>>
                                        >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >>>
                                        >>> ------------------------------------
                                        >>>
                                        >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >>>
                                        >>>
                                        >>>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> --
                                        >> Mark Yeazel
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> ------------------------------------
                                        >>
                                        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ------------------------------------
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >








                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Flatness International
                                        The Holstein breed is 25% ....A2/A2...not 50% Nothing good is easy. Ron www.flatnessintl.com ... From: Greg Palen To:
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Jul 5, 2011
                                          The Holstein breed is 25% ....A2/A2...not 50%

                                          Nothing good is easy.

                                          Ron
                                          www.flatnessintl.com



                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: "Greg Palen" <greg@...>
                                          To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 11:56 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2


                                          > The original research on A2A2 Beta Casein was done in New Zealand in the
                                          > 1980s. The researcher involved had health issues to which he eventually
                                          > succumbed, around the time Fonterra and other established dairy interests
                                          > essentially debunked his conclusions (which had been based on fairly
                                          > limited data), believing they were "protecting" the dairy industry.
                                          >
                                          > A decade or so later this material was reviewed by someone who decided it
                                          > should be done in a more organized fashion. I have seen references to
                                          > seventy studies-- done mostly in Europe (many of them funded by the UN's
                                          > World Health Organization) that do support the original NZ conclusions.
                                          > The Weston Price Foundation became involved after this point. It is
                                          > but one of the many food health issues that this Foundation pursues, and
                                          > much of their viewpoint will show up in the "Acres USA" publications,
                                          > alongside the views of Joel Salatin, Jo Robinson, or Michael Pollan; and
                                          > in "The Milkweed" of Peter Hardin (the food activists concerned with
                                          > various practices in dairy).
                                          >
                                          > A2A2 Beta Casein is in that same limbo that rBST fell into-- when ag
                                          > researchers line up to prove or disprove something that could have major
                                          > commercial consequences (A2 vs A1 is a major challenge to continued
                                          > "pooling" of milk supplies by milk cooperatives who prefer to market milk
                                          > as a volume commodity, rather than as a differentiable product capable of
                                          > some premium market sectors). The fact no one eats just milk-- and
                                          > that myriad variation in the total production process for milk exists--
                                          > makes studying single gene effects on health difficult if not impossible
                                          > to verify, which is why ultimately we just fall back on broad inference
                                          > from large bodies of statistics (a process many biologists find suspect).
                                          >
                                          > The A1 mutation of Beta Casein, which only occurs in bovines-- not in
                                          > humans, goats, water buffalos, or any other mammalian specie ever tested--
                                          > appears to raise a challenge to the "pure" reputation of COW milk as a
                                          > health food, not against milk in any other specie. But the
                                          > identification of a simple qualitative gene that can be removed by
                                          > selective breeding (as we might do with more difficulty with any lethal
                                          > recessive) is not a challenge to cow milk as much as it is to continuing
                                          > narrow breeding focuses that basically ignore the consumer's interest in
                                          > our practices. The identification of the A2 gene as having major
                                          > positive health aspects is "the road to redemption" for the bovine
                                          > species, in its essence an affirmation of our belief that "milk is good
                                          > for the body".
                                          >
                                          > Stoneyfield Yogurt is encouraging Organic Valley (CROPP) members to (1)
                                          > test their herds for A2, (2) use only A2A2 sires, (3) remove A1 cows as
                                          > they breed A2 replacements; they wish to quickly develop A2A2 (homozygous
                                          > A2) herds so that their product can be labelled as produced by homozygous
                                          > A2 cows. The idea of organic producers using "science" (as the
                                          > technology adapting sector understands the term) as a basis for product
                                          > differentiation to earn premium prices is novel, if not disturbing, to
                                          > most mainstream observers in our food industries who are complacent about
                                          > the commoditization of milk as an industrial input.
                                          >
                                          > The bias in favor of Guernseys reflects that 90+% of the Guernsey cows
                                          > tested (on three continents) show as heterozygous or homozygous A2.
                                          > There is no negative bias against Holsteins, which test as 50% A2 (note a
                                          > majority of the LIC Friesian-type Holsteins active in AI are homozygous
                                          > A2A2) -- Jerseys test globally as 60% A2. If there is a negative bias
                                          > it would be against non-Holstein Red breeds, which are only 30% to 40% A2.
                                          > (Thus the organic grazing guy who followed the peer pressure into red
                                          > breed crosses may be behind his purebred Jersey or Holstein contemporaries
                                          > in reaching this goal.)
                                          >
                                          > Will we ever know with certainty if the A2 vs A1 controversy has
                                          > scientific merit?
                                          >
                                          > In answer, will we ever return to a stage when any ag research is "pure"
                                          > (not funded by animal rights, or environmental activists, or established
                                          > commercial interests seeking to create non-tariff trade barriers against
                                          > entrepeneurial competition) and in addition, see universal acceptance of
                                          > any conclusions that affect established commercial power?
                                          >
                                          > The point to understand about A2 is that it tends to be favored in the
                                          > organic dairy sector and generally ignored in the conventional (commodity
                                          > milk) sector. Thus-- like polled-- it is a genetic side street, where
                                          > selecting in favor of A2 will gain you genetic customers within a market
                                          > niche rather than the index mainstream.
                                          >
                                          > It is clearly not an issue with consumers outside of those seeking organic
                                          > or "real" [raw] milk-- but heaven help us if the AMA latches onto this
                                          > issue in any of their doctors' focus on autoimmune diseases. (Heart
                                          > doctors created the margarine industry as a competitor for butter-- on
                                          > what we now know to be "flawed" science. Misled grandmothers still
                                          > teach the margarine gospel to their anorexic granddaughters, as they paved
                                          > the way for their daughters to be the original obese vegetarian
                                          > generation.)
                                          >
                                          > As Ron's recent post indicates, mainstream breeding can be easily combined
                                          > to produce A2A2 sires. The Savage Leigh Bellwood Linda and Beachlawn
                                          > Blwood L Lily [high index] cow lines have both produced A2A2 sons.
                                          > Taurus' +2.89 Type "Morracco" bull [Roy x Outside-- a frequently
                                          > duplicated pedigree] is A2A2 also. Mr Sam [Durham son] at Select is
                                          > A2A2. Many higher profile Jersey sires [eg, Forest Glen Avery Action]
                                          > are A2A2.
                                          >
                                          > If the Holstein breed is already 50% A2 but is less than 1% polled, it
                                          > would be a much easier market to pursue. (Our latest two Jersey
                                          > herdsires are both polled and A2A2 Beta Casein, the Michigan
                                          > grazing/organic dairy market for Jersey bulls is large enough to absorb
                                          > all we would choose to raise in this combination.)
                                          >
                                          > Greg Palen
                                          >
                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > From: Flatness International
                                          > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 7:21 AM
                                          > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > As well as preventing heart disease.
                                          >
                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                          > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                          > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 1:21 PM
                                          > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                          >
                                          > UK Guernsey Society requires bulls imported to be certified A2/A2.
                                          > So there is some possible value, and certainly there are many consumers
                                          > who
                                          > think so.
                                          >
                                          > http://ukguernsey.com/cms/the-news/1-latest-news/57-can-milk-help-autism.html
                                          > It it thought useful for juvenille diabetes and autism.
                                          > Lynn Augspurger
                                          >
                                          > --- On Mon, 7/4/11, Mark Yeazel <y2kows@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > From: Mark Yeazel <y2kows@...>
                                          > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                          > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Date: Monday, July 4, 2011, 11:59 AM
                                          >
                                          > I did a couple searches on Google to see what I could find. A2A2 milk is
                                          > listed as everything from that savior of health to a complete hoax with
                                          > no
                                          > credible research done. Which is true?
                                          >
                                          > On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Flatness International
                                          > <flintl@...>wrote:
                                          >
                                          > > **
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Thanks Lynn,
                                          > >
                                          > > I understand A2/A2 milk is selling at health food stores in Aus and NZ
                                          > at
                                          > > a
                                          > >
                                          > > premium. Any such activity seen in the US yet?
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Ron
                                          > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                          > >
                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                          > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                          > > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 8:20 AM
                                          > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                          > >
                                          > > The last list was on this discussion group August 2, 2010. I am having
                                          > > trouble putting together a new list which includes 555HO00110 but it is
                                          > > not
                                          > >
                                          > > going well. So I will post it when done. Lynn
                                          > >
                                          > > --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                          > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                          > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:12 AM
                                          > >
                                          > > Where is your list of A2/A2 bulls?
                                          > >
                                          > > Ron
                                          > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                          > >
                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                                          > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                          > > Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:24 AM
                                          > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                          > >
                                          > > > Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I've had the 555 stud code number since 2006.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Thanks for adding him to your list
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Ron
                                          > > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                          > > >
                                          > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                          > > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                          > > > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:07 PM
                                          > > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add him
                                          > to
                                          > > > the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index
                                          > A2/A2
                                          > > > cow (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least you
                                          > can
                                          > > > sell to the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
                                          > > > Lynn Augspurger
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                          > > > Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                          > > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > > Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for good
                                          > > > reason.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's
                                          > > > all-time
                                          > > > best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are
                                          > pleased....he
                                          > > > is
                                          > > > available now.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Ron
                                          > > > www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > ------------------------------------
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > >
                                          > > ------------------------------------
                                          > >
                                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > --
                                          > Mark Yeazel
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                          > ------------------------------------
                                          >
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                          > ------------------------------------
                                          >
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ------------------------------------
                                          >
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                        • Flatness International
                                          Do you remember how we got those glory days of the 70 s? Do you know why Congress still gives big oil subsidies? Ron www.flatnerssintl.com ... From: Greg
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Jul 5, 2011
                                            Do you remember how we got those glory days of the 70's?

                                            Do you know why Congress still gives big oil subsidies?

                                            Ron
                                            www.flatnerssintl.com

                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: "Greg Palen" <greg@...>
                                            To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 1:58 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2


                                            > Holstein USA vs Whole Foods... classic and basic economics.
                                            >
                                            > The "supply" of people kept on staff at Brattleboro VT given today's
                                            > communication and data collation technology, dramatically exceeds the
                                            > "demand" for their services. (Plus you see the inefficiency of being
                                            > hundreds if not thousands of miles from your current membership.
                                            > Brattelboro VT is now "ski country" no longer "cow country".)
                                            >
                                            > You have a cow best suited for the 40% of the market that drinks fluid
                                            > milk, but thanks to the foresight of Holstein leadership to exert power in
                                            > Washington DC in the 1960s and 1970s, we see 92% of all dairy cows are
                                            > Holstein. Can the Holstein breed still grow, justifying we keep all
                                            > these extra people on staff, or has it peaked?
                                            >
                                            > This is the classic economic expression of a "matured" market.
                                            > Holsteins are a matured breed in any economic sense. Existing
                                            > infrastructure is capable of supporting Holstein breeders and the Holstein
                                            > cow now and into the future. More importantly, the market is saying (in
                                            > light of ET technology and Genomic technology) we no longer need all these
                                            > existing Holstein breeders-- so demand for registration of calves, and all
                                            > services such as pedigrees that are based on that registry, is not going
                                            > to grow .
                                            >
                                            > Whole Foods, on the other hand, is part of a growth market-- the market
                                            > for "premium" food, for food whose origin is known, for food whose
                                            > production process is specified, for food fits some epicure's definition
                                            > of added quality. (Not just the "organic" catchall, Whole Foods has
                                            > gone way beyond simple organic).
                                            >
                                            > When you are in a growth industry, economics are in your favor.
                                            > Resources (including money, but more importantly, people) are entering
                                            > your industry. You have not yet reached that point where your products
                                            > are so ubiquitous as to become commodities-- differences on which premium
                                            > prices can be based are sought out, not marginalized (as we have seen in
                                            > the dairy business-- lower the value of butterfat, lower the value of
                                            > protein, ignore the value of variable vitamin and mineral content, deny
                                            > the value of living digestive enzymes, cook out any differences in flavor,
                                            > homogenize, separate and reconstitute, "commoditize").
                                            >
                                            > So Whole Foods can pay more, and attract better (smarter, more productive)
                                            > people, while dodgy old "traditional" organizations in matured activities
                                            > become repositories for ski bums who only work the minimum to pay for
                                            > playing at the maximum, or for mental burnouts who have no future vision
                                            > but cling to memories of past glories, thus can (and should) pay less.
                                            >
                                            > The dairy industry owes Holstein USA no obligation to pay its people more.
                                            > In any market the consumer sets the price for value received. If
                                            > Holstein cannot provide more value it also cannot demand higher prices.
                                            > Its current CEO seems to understand that, but gets little help from his
                                            > staff -- or his membership-- in figuring out how to add value.
                                            >
                                            > Trying to turn milk pricing back to the class I premium glory days of the
                                            > 1970s is not going to help any, either, in spite of all efforts to deny
                                            > that the cow's basic profitability on all levels-- (not just production
                                            > but reproduction and feed efficiency)-- and fitness for adapting to the
                                            > environmental changes in the industry, to determine her future share of
                                            > the market, is always the issue in surviving if not thriving in any
                                            > matured industry.
                                            >
                                            > Greg Palen
                                            >
                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > From: Flatness International
                                            > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 1:46 PM
                                            > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > the website is www.betacasein.org
                                            >
                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                                            > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                            > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 1:14 PM
                                            > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                            >
                                            > > Often the truth is somewhere in the middle....the
                                            > > website....www.betacasein.net....seems to be fair and balanced
                                            > >
                                            > > My friend that grows organic potatoes just smiles and enjoys his highly
                                            > > overpaid income.
                                            > >
                                            > > Is organic milk better than nornal milk ? Many consumers say yes. Many
                                            > > organic dairymen are now buying only semen from A2/A2 bulls. Is the
                                            > > customer
                                            > > always right...depends if you want to keep him.
                                            > >
                                            > > Near the HFA headquarters in Vermont is the distr center for Whole
                                            > Foods.
                                            > > HFA employees have been on wage freezes. Whole Foods is enjoying a
                                            > > bonanza.....is that right..no.... is it a fact...yes.
                                            > >
                                            > > Ron
                                            > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > > From: "Mark Yeazel" <y2kows@...>
                                            > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                            > > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 11:59 AM
                                            > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >>I did a couple searches on Google to see what I could find. A2A2 milk
                                            > is
                                            > >> listed as everything from that savior of health to a complete hoax
                                            > with
                                            > >> no
                                            > >> credible research done. Which is true?
                                            > >>
                                            > >> On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Flatness International
                                            > >> <flintl@...>wrote:
                                            > >>
                                            > >>> **
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>> Thanks Lynn,
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>> I understand A2/A2 milk is selling at health food stores in Aus and
                                            > NZ
                                            > >>> at
                                            > >>> a
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>> premium. Any such activity seen in the US yet?
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>> Ron
                                            > >>> www.flatnessintl.com
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>> ----- Original Message -----
                                            > >>> From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                            > >>> To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                            > >>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 8:20 AM
                                            > >>> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>> The last list was on this discussion group August 2, 2010. I am
                                            > having
                                            > >>> trouble putting together a new list which includes 555HO00110 but it
                                            > is
                                            > >>> not
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>> going well. So I will post it when done. Lynn
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>> --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>> From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                            > >>> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                            > >>> To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                            > >>> Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:12 AM
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>> Where is your list of A2/A2 bulls?
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>> Ron
                                            > >>> www.flatnessintl.com
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>> ----- Original Message -----
                                            > >>> From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                                            > >>> To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                            > >>> Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:24 AM
                                            > >>> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>> > Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110.
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> > I've had the 555 stud code number since 2006.
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> > Thanks for adding him to your list
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> > Ron
                                            > >>> > www.flatnessintl.com
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > >>> > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                            > >>> > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                            > >>> > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:07 PM
                                            > >>> > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> > Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add
                                            > him
                                            > >>> > to
                                            > >>> > the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index
                                            > >>> > A2/A2
                                            > >>> > cow (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least
                                            > you
                                            > >>> > can
                                            > >>> > sell to the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
                                            > >>> > Lynn Augspurger
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> > --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                            > >>> > Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                            > >>> > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                            > >>> > Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> > Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for good
                                            > >>> > reason.
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> > I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's
                                            > >>> > all-time
                                            > >>> > best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> > He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are
                                            > pleased....he
                                            > >>> > is
                                            > >>> > available now.
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> > Ron
                                            > >>> > www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> > ------------------------------------
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>> >
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>> ------------------------------------
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>
                                            > >>
                                            > >>
                                            > >> --
                                            > >> Mark Yeazel
                                            > >>
                                            > >>
                                            > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > >>
                                            > >>
                                            > >>
                                            > >> ------------------------------------
                                            > >>
                                            > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            > >>
                                            > >>
                                            > >>
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > ------------------------------------
                                            > >
                                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ------------------------------------
                                            >
                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                          • Jamie
                                            Greg wrote: while dodgy old traditional organizations in matured activities become repositories for ski bums who only work the minimum to pay for playing at
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Jul 5, 2011
                                              Greg wrote: "while dodgy old "traditional" organizations in matured activities become
                                              repositories for ski bums who only work the minimum to pay for playing at the
                                              maximum, or for mental burnouts who have no future vision but cling to memories
                                              of past glories, thus can (and should) pay less."


                                              Jamie says: Tell it like it is Greg. Don't pull your punches! :-)

                                              --- In PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Palen" <greg@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Holstein USA vs Whole Foods... classic and basic economics.
                                              >
                                              > The "supply" of people kept on staff at Brattleboro VT given today's communication and data collation technology, dramatically exceeds the "demand" for their services. (Plus you see the inefficiency of being hundreds if not thousands of miles from your current membership.
                                              > Brattelboro VT is now "ski country" no longer "cow country".)
                                              >
                                              > You have a cow best suited for the 40% of the market that drinks fluid milk, but thanks to the foresight of Holstein leadership to exert power in Washington DC in the 1960s and 1970s, we see 92% of all dairy cows are Holstein. Can the Holstein breed still grow, justifying we keep all these extra people on staff, or has it peaked?
                                              >
                                              > This is the classic economic expression of a "matured" market. Holsteins are a matured breed in any economic sense. Existing infrastructure is capable of supporting Holstein breeders and the Holstein cow now and into the future. More importantly, the market is saying (in light of ET technology and Genomic technology) we no longer need all these existing Holstein breeders-- so demand for registration of calves, and all services such as pedigrees that are based on that registry, is not going to grow .
                                              >
                                              > Whole Foods, on the other hand, is part of a growth market-- the market for "premium" food, for food whose origin is known, for food whose production process is specified, for food fits some epicure's definition of added quality. (Not just the "organic" catchall, Whole Foods has gone way beyond simple organic).
                                              >
                                              > When you are in a growth industry, economics are in your favor. Resources (including money, but more importantly, people) are entering your industry. You have not yet reached that point where your products are so ubiquitous as to become commodities-- differences on which premium prices can be based are sought out, not marginalized (as we have seen in the dairy business-- lower the value of butterfat, lower the value of protein, ignore the value of variable vitamin and mineral content, deny the value of living digestive enzymes, cook out any differences in flavor, homogenize, separate and reconstitute, "commoditize").
                                              >
                                              > So Whole Foods can pay more, and attract better (smarter, more productive) people, while dodgy old "traditional" organizations in matured activities become repositories for ski bums who only work the minimum to pay for playing at the maximum, or for mental burnouts who have no future vision but cling to memories of past glories, thus can (and should) pay less.
                                              >
                                              > The dairy industry owes Holstein USA no obligation to pay its people more. In any market the consumer sets the price for value received. If Holstein cannot provide more value it also cannot demand higher prices. Its current CEO seems to understand that, but gets little help from his staff -- or his membership-- in figuring out how to add value.
                                              >
                                              > Trying to turn milk pricing back to the class I premium glory days of the 1970s is not going to help any, either, in spite of all efforts to deny that the cow's basic profitability on all levels-- (not just production but reproduction and feed efficiency)-- and fitness for adapting to the environmental changes in the industry, to determine her future share of the market, is always the issue in surviving if not thriving in any matured industry.
                                              >
                                              > Greg Palen
                                              >
                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > From: Flatness International
                                              > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 1:46 PM
                                              > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > the website is www.betacasein.org
                                              >
                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                                              > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 1:14 PM
                                              > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                              >
                                              > > Often the truth is somewhere in the middle....the
                                              > > website....www.betacasein.net....seems to be fair and balanced
                                              > >
                                              > > My friend that grows organic potatoes just smiles and enjoys his highly
                                              > > overpaid income.
                                              > >
                                              > > Is organic milk better than nornal milk ? Many consumers say yes. Many
                                              > > organic dairymen are now buying only semen from A2/A2 bulls. Is the
                                              > > customer
                                              > > always right...depends if you want to keep him.
                                              > >
                                              > > Near the HFA headquarters in Vermont is the distr center for Whole Foods.
                                              > > HFA employees have been on wage freezes. Whole Foods is enjoying a
                                              > > bonanza.....is that right..no.... is it a fact...yes.
                                              > >
                                              > > Ron
                                              > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > > From: "Mark Yeazel" <y2kows@...>
                                              > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 11:59 AM
                                              > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >>I did a couple searches on Google to see what I could find. A2A2 milk is
                                              > >> listed as everything from that savior of health to a complete hoax with
                                              > >> no
                                              > >> credible research done. Which is true?
                                              > >>
                                              > >> On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Flatness International
                                              > >> <flintl@...>wrote:
                                              > >>
                                              > >>> **
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> Thanks Lynn,
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> I understand A2/A2 milk is selling at health food stores in Aus and NZ
                                              > >>> at
                                              > >>> a
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> premium. Any such activity seen in the US yet?
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> Ron
                                              > >>> www.flatnessintl.com
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> ----- Original Message -----
                                              > >>> From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                              > >>> To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > >>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 8:20 AM
                                              > >>> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> The last list was on this discussion group August 2, 2010. I am having
                                              > >>> trouble putting together a new list which includes 555HO00110 but it is
                                              > >>> not
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> going well. So I will post it when done. Lynn
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                              > >>> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                              > >>> To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >>> Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:12 AM
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> Where is your list of A2/A2 bulls?
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> Ron
                                              > >>> www.flatnessintl.com
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> ----- Original Message -----
                                              > >>> From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                                              > >>> To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > >>> Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:24 AM
                                              > >>> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> > Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110.
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> > I've had the 555 stud code number since 2006.
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> > Thanks for adding him to your list
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> > Ron
                                              > >>> > www.flatnessintl.com
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > >>> > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                              > >>> > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > >>> > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:07 PM
                                              > >>> > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> > Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add him
                                              > >>> > to
                                              > >>> > the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index
                                              > >>> > A2/A2
                                              > >>> > cow (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least you
                                              > >>> > can
                                              > >>> > sell to the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
                                              > >>> > Lynn Augspurger
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> > --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                              > >>> > Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                              > >>> > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >>> > Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> > Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for good
                                              > >>> > reason.
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> > I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's
                                              > >>> > all-time
                                              > >>> > best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> > He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are pleased....he
                                              > >>> > is
                                              > >>> > available now.
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> > Ron
                                              > >>> > www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> > ------------------------------------
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>> >
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> ------------------------------------
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>
                                              > >>
                                              > >>
                                              > >> --
                                              > >> Mark Yeazel
                                              > >>
                                              > >>
                                              > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              > >>
                                              > >>
                                              > >>
                                              > >> ------------------------------------
                                              > >>
                                              > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > >>
                                              > >>
                                              > >>
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > ------------------------------------
                                              > >
                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                            • Greg Palen
                                              I meant 50% possess the gene , ie, at least one A2 allele (heterozygous A2). Thus 25% (half) might be homozygous A2A2, given neither A2 or A1 is recessive or
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Jul 5, 2011
                                                I meant 50% possess "the gene", ie, at least one A2 allele (heterozygous A2).
                                                Thus 25% (half) might be homozygous A2A2, given neither A2 or A1 is recessive or dominant.

                                                Guernsey 90%, Jersey 60%, Holstein 50%, Br Swiss 40%, Ayrshire/SRB/NWR 30%.
                                                Most other breeds mentioned in the research papers I read 40% to 30%.

                                                Greg

                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: Flatness International
                                                To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 3:22 PM
                                                Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2



                                                The Holstein breed is 25% ....A2/A2...not 50%

                                                Nothing good is easy.

                                                Ron
                                                www.flatnessintl.com

                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: "Greg Palen" <greg@...>
                                                To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 11:56 AM
                                                Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2

                                                > The original research on A2A2 Beta Casein was done in New Zealand in the
                                                > 1980s. The researcher involved had health issues to which he eventually
                                                > succumbed, around the time Fonterra and other established dairy interests
                                                > essentially debunked his conclusions (which had been based on fairly
                                                > limited data), believing they were "protecting" the dairy industry.
                                                >
                                                > A decade or so later this material was reviewed by someone who decided it
                                                > should be done in a more organized fashion. I have seen references to
                                                > seventy studies-- done mostly in Europe (many of them funded by the UN's
                                                > World Health Organization) that do support the original NZ conclusions.
                                                > The Weston Price Foundation became involved after this point. It is
                                                > but one of the many food health issues that this Foundation pursues, and
                                                > much of their viewpoint will show up in the "Acres USA" publications,
                                                > alongside the views of Joel Salatin, Jo Robinson, or Michael Pollan; and
                                                > in "The Milkweed" of Peter Hardin (the food activists concerned with
                                                > various practices in dairy).
                                                >
                                                > A2A2 Beta Casein is in that same limbo that rBST fell into-- when ag
                                                > researchers line up to prove or disprove something that could have major
                                                > commercial consequences (A2 vs A1 is a major challenge to continued
                                                > "pooling" of milk supplies by milk cooperatives who prefer to market milk
                                                > as a volume commodity, rather than as a differentiable product capable of
                                                > some premium market sectors). The fact no one eats just milk-- and
                                                > that myriad variation in the total production process for milk exists--
                                                > makes studying single gene effects on health difficult if not impossible
                                                > to verify, which is why ultimately we just fall back on broad inference
                                                > from large bodies of statistics (a process many biologists find suspect).
                                                >
                                                > The A1 mutation of Beta Casein, which only occurs in bovines-- not in
                                                > humans, goats, water buffalos, or any other mammalian specie ever tested--
                                                > appears to raise a challenge to the "pure" reputation of COW milk as a
                                                > health food, not against milk in any other specie. But the
                                                > identification of a simple qualitative gene that can be removed by
                                                > selective breeding (as we might do with more difficulty with any lethal
                                                > recessive) is not a challenge to cow milk as much as it is to continuing
                                                > narrow breeding focuses that basically ignore the consumer's interest in
                                                > our practices. The identification of the A2 gene as having major
                                                > positive health aspects is "the road to redemption" for the bovine
                                                > species, in its essence an affirmation of our belief that "milk is good
                                                > for the body".
                                                >
                                                > Stoneyfield Yogurt is encouraging Organic Valley (CROPP) members to (1)
                                                > test their herds for A2, (2) use only A2A2 sires, (3) remove A1 cows as
                                                > they breed A2 replacements; they wish to quickly develop A2A2 (homozygous
                                                > A2) herds so that their product can be labelled as produced by homozygous
                                                > A2 cows. The idea of organic producers using "science" (as the
                                                > technology adapting sector understands the term) as a basis for product
                                                > differentiation to earn premium prices is novel, if not disturbing, to
                                                > most mainstream observers in our food industries who are complacent about
                                                > the commoditization of milk as an industrial input.
                                                >
                                                > The bias in favor of Guernseys reflects that 90+% of the Guernsey cows
                                                > tested (on three continents) show as heterozygous or homozygous A2.
                                                > There is no negative bias against Holsteins, which test as 50% A2 (note a
                                                > majority of the LIC Friesian-type Holsteins active in AI are homozygous
                                                > A2A2) -- Jerseys test globally as 60% A2. If there is a negative bias
                                                > it would be against non-Holstein Red breeds, which are only 30% to 40% A2.
                                                > (Thus the organic grazing guy who followed the peer pressure into red
                                                > breed crosses may be behind his purebred Jersey or Holstein contemporaries
                                                > in reaching this goal.)
                                                >
                                                > Will we ever know with certainty if the A2 vs A1 controversy has
                                                > scientific merit?
                                                >
                                                > In answer, will we ever return to a stage when any ag research is "pure"
                                                > (not funded by animal rights, or environmental activists, or established
                                                > commercial interests seeking to create non-tariff trade barriers against
                                                > entrepeneurial competition) and in addition, see universal acceptance of
                                                > any conclusions that affect established commercial power?
                                                >
                                                > The point to understand about A2 is that it tends to be favored in the
                                                > organic dairy sector and generally ignored in the conventional (commodity
                                                > milk) sector. Thus-- like polled-- it is a genetic side street, where
                                                > selecting in favor of A2 will gain you genetic customers within a market
                                                > niche rather than the index mainstream.
                                                >
                                                > It is clearly not an issue with consumers outside of those seeking organic
                                                > or "real" [raw] milk-- but heaven help us if the AMA latches onto this
                                                > issue in any of their doctors' focus on autoimmune diseases. (Heart
                                                > doctors created the margarine industry as a competitor for butter-- on
                                                > what we now know to be "flawed" science. Misled grandmothers still
                                                > teach the margarine gospel to their anorexic granddaughters, as they paved
                                                > the way for their daughters to be the original obese vegetarian
                                                > generation.)
                                                >
                                                > As Ron's recent post indicates, mainstream breeding can be easily combined
                                                > to produce A2A2 sires. The Savage Leigh Bellwood Linda and Beachlawn
                                                > Blwood L Lily [high index] cow lines have both produced A2A2 sons.
                                                > Taurus' +2.89 Type "Morracco" bull [Roy x Outside-- a frequently
                                                > duplicated pedigree] is A2A2 also. Mr Sam [Durham son] at Select is
                                                > A2A2. Many higher profile Jersey sires [eg, Forest Glen Avery Action]
                                                > are A2A2.
                                                >
                                                > If the Holstein breed is already 50% A2 but is less than 1% polled, it
                                                > would be a much easier market to pursue. (Our latest two Jersey
                                                > herdsires are both polled and A2A2 Beta Casein, the Michigan
                                                > grazing/organic dairy market for Jersey bulls is large enough to absorb
                                                > all we would choose to raise in this combination.)
                                                >
                                                > Greg Palen
                                                >
                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > From: Flatness International
                                                > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 7:21 AM
                                                > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > As well as preventing heart disease.
                                                >
                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                                > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 1:21 PM
                                                > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                >
                                                > UK Guernsey Society requires bulls imported to be certified A2/A2.
                                                > So there is some possible value, and certainly there are many consumers
                                                > who
                                                > think so.
                                                >
                                                > http://ukguernsey.com/cms/the-news/1-latest-news/57-can-milk-help-autism.html
                                                > It it thought useful for juvenille diabetes and autism.
                                                > Lynn Augspurger
                                                >
                                                > --- On Mon, 7/4/11, Mark Yeazel <y2kows@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > From: Mark Yeazel <y2kows@...>
                                                > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Date: Monday, July 4, 2011, 11:59 AM
                                                >
                                                > I did a couple searches on Google to see what I could find. A2A2 milk is
                                                > listed as everything from that savior of health to a complete hoax with
                                                > no
                                                > credible research done. Which is true?
                                                >
                                                > On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Flatness International
                                                > <flintl@...>wrote:
                                                >
                                                > > **
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > Thanks Lynn,
                                                > >
                                                > > I understand A2/A2 milk is selling at health food stores in Aus and NZ
                                                > at
                                                > > a
                                                > >
                                                > > premium. Any such activity seen in the US yet?
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > Ron
                                                > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                                > >
                                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                                > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                > > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 8:20 AM
                                                > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                > >
                                                > > The last list was on this discussion group August 2, 2010. I am having
                                                > > trouble putting together a new list which includes 555HO00110 but it is
                                                > > not
                                                > >
                                                > > going well. So I will post it when done. Lynn
                                                > >
                                                > > --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                                > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:12 AM
                                                > >
                                                > > Where is your list of A2/A2 bulls?
                                                > >
                                                > > Ron
                                                > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                                > >
                                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > > From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                                                > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                > > Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:24 AM
                                                > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                > >
                                                > > > Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > I've had the 555 stud code number since 2006.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Thanks for adding him to your list
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Ron
                                                > > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                                > > >
                                                > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > > > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                                > > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                > > > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:07 PM
                                                > > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add him
                                                > to
                                                > > > the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index
                                                > A2/A2
                                                > > > cow (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least you
                                                > can
                                                > > > sell to the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
                                                > > > Lynn Augspurger
                                                > > >
                                                > > > --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                                > > > Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                > > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > > Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for good
                                                > > > reason.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's
                                                > > > all-time
                                                > > > best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are
                                                > pleased....he
                                                > > > is
                                                > > > available now.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Ron
                                                > > > www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > ------------------------------------
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > >
                                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                > >
                                                > > ------------------------------------
                                                > >
                                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > --
                                                > Mark Yeazel
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
                                                > ------------------------------------
                                                >
                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
                                                > ------------------------------------
                                                >
                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > ------------------------------------
                                                >
                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >








                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Flatness International
                                                So we agree... 25% of Holsteins are A2/A2! ... From: Greg Palen To: Sent: Tuesday, July 05,
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Jul 5, 2011
                                                  So we agree... 25% of Holsteins are A2/A2!

                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: "Greg Palen" <greg@...>
                                                  To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 3:26 PM
                                                  Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2


                                                  >I meant 50% possess "the gene", ie, at least one A2 allele (heterozygous
                                                  >A2).
                                                  > Thus 25% (half) might be homozygous A2A2, given neither A2 or A1 is
                                                  > recessive or dominant.
                                                  >
                                                  > Guernsey 90%, Jersey 60%, Holstein 50%, Br Swiss 40%, Ayrshire/SRB/NWR
                                                  > 30%.
                                                  > Most other breeds mentioned in the research papers I read 40% to 30%.
                                                  >
                                                  > Greg
                                                  >
                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                  > From: Flatness International
                                                  > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 3:22 PM
                                                  > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > The Holstein breed is 25% ....A2/A2...not 50%
                                                  >
                                                  > Nothing good is easy.
                                                  >
                                                  > Ron
                                                  > www.flatnessintl.com
                                                  >
                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                  > From: "Greg Palen" <greg@...>
                                                  > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  > Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 11:56 AM
                                                  > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                  >
                                                  > > The original research on A2A2 Beta Casein was done in New Zealand in
                                                  > the
                                                  > > 1980s. The researcher involved had health issues to which he eventually
                                                  > > succumbed, around the time Fonterra and other established dairy
                                                  > interests
                                                  > > essentially debunked his conclusions (which had been based on fairly
                                                  > > limited data), believing they were "protecting" the dairy industry.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > A decade or so later this material was reviewed by someone who decided
                                                  > it
                                                  > > should be done in a more organized fashion. I have seen references to
                                                  > > seventy studies-- done mostly in Europe (many of them funded by the
                                                  > UN's
                                                  > > World Health Organization) that do support the original NZ conclusions.
                                                  > > The Weston Price Foundation became involved after this point. It is
                                                  > > but one of the many food health issues that this Foundation pursues,
                                                  > and
                                                  > > much of their viewpoint will show up in the "Acres USA" publications,
                                                  > > alongside the views of Joel Salatin, Jo Robinson, or Michael Pollan;
                                                  > and
                                                  > > in "The Milkweed" of Peter Hardin (the food activists concerned with
                                                  > > various practices in dairy).
                                                  > >
                                                  > > A2A2 Beta Casein is in that same limbo that rBST fell into-- when ag
                                                  > > researchers line up to prove or disprove something that could have
                                                  > major
                                                  > > commercial consequences (A2 vs A1 is a major challenge to continued
                                                  > > "pooling" of milk supplies by milk cooperatives who prefer to market
                                                  > milk
                                                  > > as a volume commodity, rather than as a differentiable product capable
                                                  > of
                                                  > > some premium market sectors). The fact no one eats just milk-- and
                                                  > > that myriad variation in the total production process for milk exists--
                                                  > > makes studying single gene effects on health difficult if not
                                                  > impossible
                                                  > > to verify, which is why ultimately we just fall back on broad inference
                                                  > > from large bodies of statistics (a process many biologists find
                                                  > suspect).
                                                  > >
                                                  > > The A1 mutation of Beta Casein, which only occurs in bovines-- not in
                                                  > > humans, goats, water buffalos, or any other mammalian specie ever
                                                  > tested--
                                                  > > appears to raise a challenge to the "pure" reputation of COW milk as a
                                                  > > health food, not against milk in any other specie. But the
                                                  > > identification of a simple qualitative gene that can be removed by
                                                  > > selective breeding (as we might do with more difficulty with any lethal
                                                  > > recessive) is not a challenge to cow milk as much as it is to
                                                  > continuing
                                                  > > narrow breeding focuses that basically ignore the consumer's interest
                                                  > in
                                                  > > our practices. The identification of the A2 gene as having major
                                                  > > positive health aspects is "the road to redemption" for the bovine
                                                  > > species, in its essence an affirmation of our belief that "milk is good
                                                  > > for the body".
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Stoneyfield Yogurt is encouraging Organic Valley (CROPP) members to (1)
                                                  > > test their herds for A2, (2) use only A2A2 sires, (3) remove A1 cows as
                                                  > > they breed A2 replacements; they wish to quickly develop A2A2
                                                  > (homozygous
                                                  > > A2) herds so that their product can be labelled as produced by
                                                  > homozygous
                                                  > > A2 cows. The idea of organic producers using "science" (as the
                                                  > > technology adapting sector understands the term) as a basis for product
                                                  > > differentiation to earn premium prices is novel, if not disturbing, to
                                                  > > most mainstream observers in our food industries who are complacent
                                                  > about
                                                  > > the commoditization of milk as an industrial input.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > The bias in favor of Guernseys reflects that 90+% of the Guernsey cows
                                                  > > tested (on three continents) show as heterozygous or homozygous A2.
                                                  > > There is no negative bias against Holsteins, which test as 50% A2 (note
                                                  > a
                                                  > > majority of the LIC Friesian-type Holsteins active in AI are homozygous
                                                  > > A2A2) -- Jerseys test globally as 60% A2. If there is a negative bias
                                                  > > it would be against non-Holstein Red breeds, which are only 30% to 40%
                                                  > A2.
                                                  > > (Thus the organic grazing guy who followed the peer pressure into red
                                                  > > breed crosses may be behind his purebred Jersey or Holstein
                                                  > contemporaries
                                                  > > in reaching this goal.)
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Will we ever know with certainty if the A2 vs A1 controversy has
                                                  > > scientific merit?
                                                  > >
                                                  > > In answer, will we ever return to a stage when any ag research is
                                                  > "pure"
                                                  > > (not funded by animal rights, or environmental activists, or
                                                  > established
                                                  > > commercial interests seeking to create non-tariff trade barriers
                                                  > against
                                                  > > entrepeneurial competition) and in addition, see universal acceptance
                                                  > of
                                                  > > any conclusions that affect established commercial power?
                                                  > >
                                                  > > The point to understand about A2 is that it tends to be favored in the
                                                  > > organic dairy sector and generally ignored in the conventional
                                                  > (commodity
                                                  > > milk) sector. Thus-- like polled-- it is a genetic side street, where
                                                  > > selecting in favor of A2 will gain you genetic customers within a
                                                  > market
                                                  > > niche rather than the index mainstream.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > It is clearly not an issue with consumers outside of those seeking
                                                  > organic
                                                  > > or "real" [raw] milk-- but heaven help us if the AMA latches onto this
                                                  > > issue in any of their doctors' focus on autoimmune diseases. (Heart
                                                  > > doctors created the margarine industry as a competitor for butter-- on
                                                  > > what we now know to be "flawed" science. Misled grandmothers still
                                                  > > teach the margarine gospel to their anorexic granddaughters, as they
                                                  > paved
                                                  > > the way for their daughters to be the original obese vegetarian
                                                  > > generation.)
                                                  > >
                                                  > > As Ron's recent post indicates, mainstream breeding can be easily
                                                  > combined
                                                  > > to produce A2A2 sires. The Savage Leigh Bellwood Linda and Beachlawn
                                                  > > Blwood L Lily [high index] cow lines have both produced A2A2 sons.
                                                  > > Taurus' +2.89 Type "Morracco" bull [Roy x Outside-- a frequently
                                                  > > duplicated pedigree] is A2A2 also. Mr Sam [Durham son] at Select is
                                                  > > A2A2. Many higher profile Jersey sires [eg, Forest Glen Avery Action]
                                                  > > are A2A2.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > If the Holstein breed is already 50% A2 but is less than 1% polled, it
                                                  > > would be a much easier market to pursue. (Our latest two Jersey
                                                  > > herdsires are both polled and A2A2 Beta Casein, the Michigan
                                                  > > grazing/organic dairy market for Jersey bulls is large enough to absorb
                                                  > > all we would choose to raise in this combination.)
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Greg Palen
                                                  > >
                                                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                  > > From: Flatness International
                                                  > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 7:21 AM
                                                  > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > As well as preventing heart disease.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                  > > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                                  > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  > > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 1:21 PM
                                                  > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                  > >
                                                  > > UK Guernsey Society requires bulls imported to be certified A2/A2.
                                                  > > So there is some possible value, and certainly there are many consumers
                                                  > > who
                                                  > > think so.
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > http://ukguernsey.com/cms/the-news/1-latest-news/57-can-milk-help-autism.html
                                                  > > It it thought useful for juvenille diabetes and autism.
                                                  > > Lynn Augspurger
                                                  > >
                                                  > > --- On Mon, 7/4/11, Mark Yeazel <y2kows@...> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > From: Mark Yeazel <y2kows@...>
                                                  > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                  > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > Date: Monday, July 4, 2011, 11:59 AM
                                                  > >
                                                  > > I did a couple searches on Google to see what I could find. A2A2 milk
                                                  > is
                                                  > > listed as everything from that savior of health to a complete hoax with
                                                  > > no
                                                  > > credible research done. Which is true?
                                                  > >
                                                  > > On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Flatness International
                                                  > > <flintl@...>wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > > **
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Thanks Lynn,
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > I understand A2/A2 milk is selling at health food stores in Aus and
                                                  > NZ
                                                  > > at
                                                  > > > a
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > premium. Any such activity seen in the US yet?
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Ron
                                                  > > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                  > > > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                                  > > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  > > > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 8:20 AM
                                                  > > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > The last list was on this discussion group August 2, 2010. I am
                                                  > having
                                                  > > > trouble putting together a new list which includes 555HO00110 but it
                                                  > is
                                                  > > > not
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > going well. So I will post it when done. Lynn
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                                  > > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                  > > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > > Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:12 AM
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Where is your list of A2/A2 bulls?
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Ron
                                                  > > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                  > > > From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                                                  > > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  > > > Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:24 AM
                                                  > > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > > Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > I've had the 555 stud code number since 2006.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Thanks for adding him to your list
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Ron
                                                  > > > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                  > > > > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                                  > > > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  > > > > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:07 PM
                                                  > > > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add
                                                  > him
                                                  > > to
                                                  > > > > the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index
                                                  > > A2/A2
                                                  > > > > cow (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least
                                                  > you
                                                  > > can
                                                  > > > > sell to the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
                                                  > > > > Lynn Augspurger
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                                  > > > > Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                  > > > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > > > Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for good
                                                  > > > > reason.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's
                                                  > > > > all-time
                                                  > > > > best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are
                                                  > > pleased....he
                                                  > > > > is
                                                  > > > > available now.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Ron
                                                  > > > > www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > ------------------------------------
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > ------------------------------------
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > --
                                                  > > Mark Yeazel
                                                  > >
                                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  > >
                                                  > > ------------------------------------
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  > >
                                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  > >
                                                  > > ------------------------------------
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > ------------------------------------
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > ------------------------------------
                                                  >
                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                • LYNN AUGSPURGER
                                                  Closer to 12%. Lynn ... From: Flatness International Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2 To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday,
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Jul 5, 2011
                                                    Closer to 12%.
                                                    Lynn

                                                    --- On Tue, 7/5/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:


                                                    From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                                    Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                    To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: Tuesday, July 5, 2011, 3:45 PM


                                                     



                                                    So we agree... 25% of Holsteins are A2/A2!

                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    From: "Greg Palen" <greg@...>
                                                    To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 3:26 PM
                                                    Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2

                                                    >I meant 50% possess "the gene", ie, at least one A2 allele (heterozygous
                                                    >A2).
                                                    > Thus 25% (half) might be homozygous A2A2, given neither A2 or A1 is
                                                    > recessive or dominant.
                                                    >
                                                    > Guernsey 90%, Jersey 60%, Holstein 50%, Br Swiss 40%, Ayrshire/SRB/NWR
                                                    > 30%.
                                                    > Most other breeds mentioned in the research papers I read 40% to 30%.
                                                    >
                                                    > Greg
                                                    >
                                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                                    > From: Flatness International
                                                    > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 3:22 PM
                                                    > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > The Holstein breed is 25% ....A2/A2...not 50%
                                                    >
                                                    > Nothing good is easy.
                                                    >
                                                    > Ron
                                                    > www.flatnessintl.com
                                                    >
                                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                                    > From: "Greg Palen" <greg@...>
                                                    > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    > Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 11:56 AM
                                                    > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                    >
                                                    > > The original research on A2A2 Beta Casein was done in New Zealand in
                                                    > the
                                                    > > 1980s. The researcher involved had health issues to which he eventually
                                                    > > succumbed, around the time Fonterra and other established dairy
                                                    > interests
                                                    > > essentially debunked his conclusions (which had been based on fairly
                                                    > > limited data), believing they were "protecting" the dairy industry.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > A decade or so later this material was reviewed by someone who decided
                                                    > it
                                                    > > should be done in a more organized fashion. I have seen references to
                                                    > > seventy studies-- done mostly in Europe (many of them funded by the
                                                    > UN's
                                                    > > World Health Organization) that do support the original NZ conclusions.
                                                    > > The Weston Price Foundation became involved after this point. It is
                                                    > > but one of the many food health issues that this Foundation pursues,
                                                    > and
                                                    > > much of their viewpoint will show up in the "Acres USA" publications,
                                                    > > alongside the views of Joel Salatin, Jo Robinson, or Michael Pollan;
                                                    > and
                                                    > > in "The Milkweed" of Peter Hardin (the food activists concerned with
                                                    > > various practices in dairy).
                                                    > >
                                                    > > A2A2 Beta Casein is in that same limbo that rBST fell into-- when ag
                                                    > > researchers line up to prove or disprove something that could have
                                                    > major
                                                    > > commercial consequences (A2 vs A1 is a major challenge to continued
                                                    > > "pooling" of milk supplies by milk cooperatives who prefer to market
                                                    > milk
                                                    > > as a volume commodity, rather than as a differentiable product capable
                                                    > of
                                                    > > some premium market sectors). The fact no one eats just milk-- and
                                                    > > that myriad variation in the total production process for milk exists--
                                                    > > makes studying single gene effects on health difficult if not
                                                    > impossible
                                                    > > to verify, which is why ultimately we just fall back on broad inference
                                                    > > from large bodies of statistics (a process many biologists find
                                                    > suspect).
                                                    > >
                                                    > > The A1 mutation of Beta Casein, which only occurs in bovines-- not in
                                                    > > humans, goats, water buffalos, or any other mammalian specie ever
                                                    > tested--
                                                    > > appears to raise a challenge to the "pure" reputation of COW milk as a
                                                    > > health food, not against milk in any other specie. But the
                                                    > > identification of a simple qualitative gene that can be removed by
                                                    > > selective breeding (as we might do with more difficulty with any lethal
                                                    > > recessive) is not a challenge to cow milk as much as it is to
                                                    > continuing
                                                    > > narrow breeding focuses that basically ignore the consumer's interest
                                                    > in
                                                    > > our practices. The identification of the A2 gene as having major
                                                    > > positive health aspects is "the road to redemption" for the bovine
                                                    > > species, in its essence an affirmation of our belief that "milk is good
                                                    > > for the body".
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Stoneyfield Yogurt is encouraging Organic Valley (CROPP) members to (1)
                                                    > > test their herds for A2, (2) use only A2A2 sires, (3) remove A1 cows as
                                                    > > they breed A2 replacements; they wish to quickly develop A2A2
                                                    > (homozygous
                                                    > > A2) herds so that their product can be labelled as produced by
                                                    > homozygous
                                                    > > A2 cows. The idea of organic producers using "science" (as the
                                                    > > technology adapting sector understands the term) as a basis for product
                                                    > > differentiation to earn premium prices is novel, if not disturbing, to
                                                    > > most mainstream observers in our food industries who are complacent
                                                    > about
                                                    > > the commoditization of milk as an industrial input.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > The bias in favor of Guernseys reflects that 90+% of the Guernsey cows
                                                    > > tested (on three continents) show as heterozygous or homozygous A2.
                                                    > > There is no negative bias against Holsteins, which test as 50% A2 (note
                                                    > a
                                                    > > majority of the LIC Friesian-type Holsteins active in AI are homozygous
                                                    > > A2A2) -- Jerseys test globally as 60% A2. If there is a negative bias
                                                    > > it would be against non-Holstein Red breeds, which are only 30% to 40%
                                                    > A2.
                                                    > > (Thus the organic grazing guy who followed the peer pressure into red
                                                    > > breed crosses may be behind his purebred Jersey or Holstein
                                                    > contemporaries
                                                    > > in reaching this goal.)
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Will we ever know with certainty if the A2 vs A1 controversy has
                                                    > > scientific merit?
                                                    > >
                                                    > > In answer, will we ever return to a stage when any ag research is
                                                    > "pure"
                                                    > > (not funded by animal rights, or environmental activists, or
                                                    > established
                                                    > > commercial interests seeking to create non-tariff trade barriers
                                                    > against
                                                    > > entrepeneurial competition) and in addition, see universal acceptance
                                                    > of
                                                    > > any conclusions that affect established commercial power?
                                                    > >
                                                    > > The point to understand about A2 is that it tends to be favored in the
                                                    > > organic dairy sector and generally ignored in the conventional
                                                    > (commodity
                                                    > > milk) sector. Thus-- like polled-- it is a genetic side street, where
                                                    > > selecting in favor of A2 will gain you genetic customers within a
                                                    > market
                                                    > > niche rather than the index mainstream.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > It is clearly not an issue with consumers outside of those seeking
                                                    > organic
                                                    > > or "real" [raw] milk-- but heaven help us if the AMA latches onto this
                                                    > > issue in any of their doctors' focus on autoimmune diseases. (Heart
                                                    > > doctors created the margarine industry as a competitor for butter-- on
                                                    > > what we now know to be "flawed" science. Misled grandmothers still
                                                    > > teach the margarine gospel to their anorexic granddaughters, as they
                                                    > paved
                                                    > > the way for their daughters to be the original obese vegetarian
                                                    > > generation.)
                                                    > >
                                                    > > As Ron's recent post indicates, mainstream breeding can be easily
                                                    > combined
                                                    > > to produce A2A2 sires. The Savage Leigh Bellwood Linda and Beachlawn
                                                    > > Blwood L Lily [high index] cow lines have both produced A2A2 sons.
                                                    > > Taurus' +2.89 Type "Morracco" bull [Roy x Outside-- a frequently
                                                    > > duplicated pedigree] is A2A2 also. Mr Sam [Durham son] at Select is
                                                    > > A2A2. Many higher profile Jersey sires [eg, Forest Glen Avery Action]
                                                    > > are A2A2.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > If the Holstein breed is already 50% A2 but is less than 1% polled, it
                                                    > > would be a much easier market to pursue. (Our latest two Jersey
                                                    > > herdsires are both polled and A2A2 Beta Casein, the Michigan
                                                    > > grazing/organic dairy market for Jersey bulls is large enough to absorb
                                                    > > all we would choose to raise in this combination.)
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Greg Palen
                                                    > >
                                                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                    > > From: Flatness International
                                                    > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 7:21 AM
                                                    > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > As well as preventing heart disease.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                    > > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                                    > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    > > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 1:21 PM
                                                    > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                    > >
                                                    > > UK Guernsey Society requires bulls imported to be certified A2/A2.
                                                    > > So there is some possible value, and certainly there are many consumers
                                                    > > who
                                                    > > think so.
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > http://ukguernsey.com/cms/the-news/1-latest-news/57-can-milk-help-autism.html
                                                    > > It it thought useful for juvenille diabetes and autism.
                                                    > > Lynn Augspurger
                                                    > >
                                                    > > --- On Mon, 7/4/11, Mark Yeazel <y2kows@...> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > From: Mark Yeazel <y2kows@...>
                                                    > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                    > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > Date: Monday, July 4, 2011, 11:59 AM
                                                    > >
                                                    > > I did a couple searches on Google to see what I could find. A2A2 milk
                                                    > is
                                                    > > listed as everything from that savior of health to a complete hoax with
                                                    > > no
                                                    > > credible research done. Which is true?
                                                    > >
                                                    > > On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Flatness International
                                                    > > <flintl@...>wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > > **
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Thanks Lynn,
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > I understand A2/A2 milk is selling at health food stores in Aus and
                                                    > NZ
                                                    > > at
                                                    > > > a
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > premium. Any such activity seen in the US yet?
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Ron
                                                    > > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                    > > > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                                    > > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    > > > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 8:20 AM
                                                    > > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > The last list was on this discussion group August 2, 2010. I am
                                                    > having
                                                    > > > trouble putting together a new list which includes 555HO00110 but it
                                                    > is
                                                    > > > not
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > going well. So I will post it when done. Lynn
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                                    > > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                    > > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > > Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:12 AM
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Where is your list of A2/A2 bulls?
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Ron
                                                    > > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                    > > > From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                                                    > > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    > > > Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:24 AM
                                                    > > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > > Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110.
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > I've had the 555 stud code number since 2006.
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > Thanks for adding him to your list
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > Ron
                                                    > > > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                    > > > > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                                    > > > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    > > > > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:07 PM
                                                    > > > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add
                                                    > him
                                                    > > to
                                                    > > > > the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index
                                                    > > A2/A2
                                                    > > > > cow (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least
                                                    > you
                                                    > > can
                                                    > > > > sell to the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
                                                    > > > > Lynn Augspurger
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                                    > > > > Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                    > > > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > > > Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for good
                                                    > > > > reason.
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's
                                                    > > > > all-time
                                                    > > > > best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are
                                                    > > pleased....he
                                                    > > > > is
                                                    > > > > available now.
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > Ron
                                                    > > > > www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > ------------------------------------
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > ------------------------------------
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > --
                                                    > > Mark Yeazel
                                                    > >
                                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    > >
                                                    > > ------------------------------------
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    > >
                                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    > >
                                                    > > ------------------------------------
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > ------------------------------------
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > ------------------------------------
                                                    >
                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >








                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • Flatness International
                                                    Likwise 75% are not.....so just using any Holstein bull for A2/A2.... is like driving around without a map, with no destination in mind. ... From: Flatness
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Jul 5, 2011
                                                      Likwise 75% are not.....so just using any Holstein bull for A2/A2.... is
                                                      like driving around without a map, with no destination in mind.

                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                      From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                                                      To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                      Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 3:45 PM
                                                      Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2


                                                      > So we agree... 25% of Holsteins are A2/A2!
                                                      >
                                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                                      > From: "Greg Palen" <greg@...>
                                                      > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                      > Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 3:26 PM
                                                      > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >>I meant 50% possess "the gene", ie, at least one A2 allele (heterozygous
                                                      >>A2).
                                                      >> Thus 25% (half) might be homozygous A2A2, given neither A2 or A1 is
                                                      >> recessive or dominant.
                                                      >>
                                                      >> Guernsey 90%, Jersey 60%, Holstein 50%, Br Swiss 40%, Ayrshire/SRB/NWR
                                                      >> 30%.
                                                      >> Most other breeds mentioned in the research papers I read 40% to 30%.
                                                      >>
                                                      >> Greg
                                                      >>
                                                      >> ----- Original Message -----
                                                      >> From: Flatness International
                                                      >> To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                      >> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 3:22 PM
                                                      >> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >> The Holstein breed is 25% ....A2/A2...not 50%
                                                      >>
                                                      >> Nothing good is easy.
                                                      >>
                                                      >> Ron
                                                      >> www.flatnessintl.com
                                                      >>
                                                      >> ----- Original Message -----
                                                      >> From: "Greg Palen" <greg@...>
                                                      >> To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                      >> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 11:56 AM
                                                      >> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                      >>
                                                      >> > The original research on A2A2 Beta Casein was done in New Zealand in
                                                      >> the
                                                      >> > 1980s. The researcher involved had health issues to which he
                                                      >> eventually
                                                      >> > succumbed, around the time Fonterra and other established dairy
                                                      >> interests
                                                      >> > essentially debunked his conclusions (which had been based on fairly
                                                      >> > limited data), believing they were "protecting" the dairy industry.
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > A decade or so later this material was reviewed by someone who decided
                                                      >> it
                                                      >> > should be done in a more organized fashion. I have seen references to
                                                      >> > seventy studies-- done mostly in Europe (many of them funded by the
                                                      >> UN's
                                                      >> > World Health Organization) that do support the original NZ
                                                      >> conclusions.
                                                      >> > The Weston Price Foundation became involved after this point. It is
                                                      >> > but one of the many food health issues that this Foundation pursues,
                                                      >> and
                                                      >> > much of their viewpoint will show up in the "Acres USA" publications,
                                                      >> > alongside the views of Joel Salatin, Jo Robinson, or Michael Pollan;
                                                      >> and
                                                      >> > in "The Milkweed" of Peter Hardin (the food activists concerned with
                                                      >> > various practices in dairy).
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > A2A2 Beta Casein is in that same limbo that rBST fell into-- when ag
                                                      >> > researchers line up to prove or disprove something that could have
                                                      >> major
                                                      >> > commercial consequences (A2 vs A1 is a major challenge to continued
                                                      >> > "pooling" of milk supplies by milk cooperatives who prefer to market
                                                      >> milk
                                                      >> > as a volume commodity, rather than as a differentiable product capable
                                                      >> of
                                                      >> > some premium market sectors). The fact no one eats just milk-- and
                                                      >> > that myriad variation in the total production process for milk
                                                      >> exists--
                                                      >> > makes studying single gene effects on health difficult if not
                                                      >> impossible
                                                      >> > to verify, which is why ultimately we just fall back on broad
                                                      >> inference
                                                      >> > from large bodies of statistics (a process many biologists find
                                                      >> suspect).
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > The A1 mutation of Beta Casein, which only occurs in bovines-- not in
                                                      >> > humans, goats, water buffalos, or any other mammalian specie ever
                                                      >> tested--
                                                      >> > appears to raise a challenge to the "pure" reputation of COW milk as a
                                                      >> > health food, not against milk in any other specie. But the
                                                      >> > identification of a simple qualitative gene that can be removed by
                                                      >> > selective breeding (as we might do with more difficulty with any
                                                      >> lethal
                                                      >> > recessive) is not a challenge to cow milk as much as it is to
                                                      >> continuing
                                                      >> > narrow breeding focuses that basically ignore the consumer's interest
                                                      >> in
                                                      >> > our practices. The identification of the A2 gene as having major
                                                      >> > positive health aspects is "the road to redemption" for the bovine
                                                      >> > species, in its essence an affirmation of our belief that "milk is
                                                      >> good
                                                      >> > for the body".
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > Stoneyfield Yogurt is encouraging Organic Valley (CROPP) members to
                                                      >> (1)
                                                      >> > test their herds for A2, (2) use only A2A2 sires, (3) remove A1 cows
                                                      >> as
                                                      >> > they breed A2 replacements; they wish to quickly develop A2A2
                                                      >> (homozygous
                                                      >> > A2) herds so that their product can be labelled as produced by
                                                      >> homozygous
                                                      >> > A2 cows. The idea of organic producers using "science" (as the
                                                      >> > technology adapting sector understands the term) as a basis for
                                                      >> product
                                                      >> > differentiation to earn premium prices is novel, if not disturbing, to
                                                      >> > most mainstream observers in our food industries who are complacent
                                                      >> about
                                                      >> > the commoditization of milk as an industrial input.
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > The bias in favor of Guernseys reflects that 90+% of the Guernsey cows
                                                      >> > tested (on three continents) show as heterozygous or homozygous A2.
                                                      >> > There is no negative bias against Holsteins, which test as 50% A2
                                                      >> (note
                                                      >> a
                                                      >> > majority of the LIC Friesian-type Holsteins active in AI are
                                                      >> homozygous
                                                      >> > A2A2) -- Jerseys test globally as 60% A2. If there is a negative bias
                                                      >> > it would be against non-Holstein Red breeds, which are only 30% to 40%
                                                      >> A2.
                                                      >> > (Thus the organic grazing guy who followed the peer pressure into red
                                                      >> > breed crosses may be behind his purebred Jersey or Holstein
                                                      >> contemporaries
                                                      >> > in reaching this goal.)
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > Will we ever know with certainty if the A2 vs A1 controversy has
                                                      >> > scientific merit?
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > In answer, will we ever return to a stage when any ag research is
                                                      >> "pure"
                                                      >> > (not funded by animal rights, or environmental activists, or
                                                      >> established
                                                      >> > commercial interests seeking to create non-tariff trade barriers
                                                      >> against
                                                      >> > entrepeneurial competition) and in addition, see universal acceptance
                                                      >> of
                                                      >> > any conclusions that affect established commercial power?
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > The point to understand about A2 is that it tends to be favored in the
                                                      >> > organic dairy sector and generally ignored in the conventional
                                                      >> (commodity
                                                      >> > milk) sector. Thus-- like polled-- it is a genetic side street, where
                                                      >> > selecting in favor of A2 will gain you genetic customers within a
                                                      >> market
                                                      >> > niche rather than the index mainstream.
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > It is clearly not an issue with consumers outside of those seeking
                                                      >> organic
                                                      >> > or "real" [raw] milk-- but heaven help us if the AMA latches onto this
                                                      >> > issue in any of their doctors' focus on autoimmune diseases. (Heart
                                                      >> > doctors created the margarine industry as a competitor for butter-- on
                                                      >> > what we now know to be "flawed" science. Misled grandmothers still
                                                      >> > teach the margarine gospel to their anorexic granddaughters, as they
                                                      >> paved
                                                      >> > the way for their daughters to be the original obese vegetarian
                                                      >> > generation.)
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > As Ron's recent post indicates, mainstream breeding can be easily
                                                      >> combined
                                                      >> > to produce A2A2 sires. The Savage Leigh Bellwood Linda and Beachlawn
                                                      >> > Blwood L Lily [high index] cow lines have both produced A2A2 sons.
                                                      >> > Taurus' +2.89 Type "Morracco" bull [Roy x Outside-- a frequently
                                                      >> > duplicated pedigree] is A2A2 also. Mr Sam [Durham son] at Select is
                                                      >> > A2A2. Many higher profile Jersey sires [eg, Forest Glen Avery Action]
                                                      >> > are A2A2.
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > If the Holstein breed is already 50% A2 but is less than 1% polled, it
                                                      >> > would be a much easier market to pursue. (Our latest two Jersey
                                                      >> > herdsires are both polled and A2A2 Beta Casein, the Michigan
                                                      >> > grazing/organic dairy market for Jersey bulls is large enough to
                                                      >> absorb
                                                      >> > all we would choose to raise in this combination.)
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > Greg Palen
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > ----- Original Message -----
                                                      >> > From: Flatness International
                                                      >> > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                      >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 7:21 AM
                                                      >> > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > As well as preventing heart disease.
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > ----- Original Message -----
                                                      >> > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                                      >> > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                      >> > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 1:21 PM
                                                      >> > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > UK Guernsey Society requires bulls imported to be certified A2/A2.
                                                      >> > So there is some possible value, and certainly there are many
                                                      >> consumers
                                                      >> > who
                                                      >> > think so.
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> http://ukguernsey.com/cms/the-news/1-latest-news/57-can-milk-help-autism.html
                                                      >> > It it thought useful for juvenille diabetes and autism.
                                                      >> > Lynn Augspurger
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > --- On Mon, 7/4/11, Mark Yeazel <y2kows@...> wrote:
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > From: Mark Yeazel <y2kows@...>
                                                      >> > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                      >> > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                      >> > Date: Monday, July 4, 2011, 11:59 AM
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > I did a couple searches on Google to see what I could find. A2A2 milk
                                                      >> is
                                                      >> > listed as everything from that savior of health to a complete hoax
                                                      >> with
                                                      >> > no
                                                      >> > credible research done. Which is true?
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Flatness International
                                                      >> > <flintl@...>wrote:
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > > **
                                                      >> > >
                                                      >> > >
                                                      >> > > Thanks Lynn,
                                                      >> > >
                                                      >> > > I understand A2/A2 milk is selling at health food stores in Aus and
                                                      >> NZ
                                                      >> > at
                                                      >> > > a
                                                      >> > >
                                                      >> > > premium. Any such activity seen in the US yet?
                                                      >> > >
                                                      >> > >
                                                      >> > > Ron
                                                      >> > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                                      >> > >
                                                      >> > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                      >> > > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                                      >> > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                      >> > > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 8:20 AM
                                                      >> > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                      >> > >
                                                      >> > > The last list was on this discussion group August 2, 2010. I am
                                                      >> having
                                                      >> > > trouble putting together a new list which includes 555HO00110 but it
                                                      >> is
                                                      >> > > not
                                                      >> > >
                                                      >> > > going well. So I will post it when done. Lynn
                                                      >> > >
                                                      >> > > --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                                      >> > >
                                                      >> > > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                                      >> > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                      >> > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                      >> > > Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:12 AM
                                                      >> > >
                                                      >> > > Where is your list of A2/A2 bulls?
                                                      >> > >
                                                      >> > > Ron
                                                      >> > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                                      >> > >
                                                      >> > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                      >> > > From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                                                      >> > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                      >> > > Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:24 AM
                                                      >> > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                      >> > >
                                                      >> > > > Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110.
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > > I've had the 555 stud code number since 2006.
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > > Thanks for adding him to your list
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > > Ron
                                                      >> > > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                      >> > > > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                                      >> > > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                      >> > > > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:07 PM
                                                      >> > > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > > Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add
                                                      >> him
                                                      >> > to
                                                      >> > > > the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index
                                                      >> > A2/A2
                                                      >> > > > cow (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least
                                                      >> you
                                                      >> > can
                                                      >> > > > sell to the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
                                                      >> > > > Lynn Augspurger
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > > --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                                      >> wrote:
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                                      >> > > > Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                      >> > > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                      >> > > > Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > > Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for
                                                      >> good
                                                      >> > > > reason.
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > > I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's
                                                      >> > > > all-time
                                                      >> > > > best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > > He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are
                                                      >> > pleased....he
                                                      >> > > > is
                                                      >> > > > available now.
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > > Ron
                                                      >> > > > www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > > ------------------------------------
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > > >
                                                      >> > >
                                                      >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      >> > >
                                                      >> > > ------------------------------------
                                                      >> > >
                                                      >> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                      >> > >
                                                      >> > >
                                                      >> > >
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > --
                                                      >> > Mark Yeazel
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > ------------------------------------
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > ------------------------------------
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > ------------------------------------
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> >
                                                      >> >
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >> ------------------------------------
                                                      >>
                                                      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > ------------------------------------
                                                      >
                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                    • Flatness International
                                                      Sounds even better...but why? ... From: LYNN AUGSPURGER To: Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 3:48 PM
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Jul 5, 2011
                                                        Sounds even better...but why?

                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                                        To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 3:48 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2


                                                        Closer to 12%.
                                                        Lynn

                                                        --- On Tue, 7/5/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:


                                                        From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                                        Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                        To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Date: Tuesday, July 5, 2011, 3:45 PM






                                                        So we agree... 25% of Holsteins are A2/A2!

                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        From: "Greg Palen" <greg@...>
                                                        To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 3:26 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2

                                                        >I meant 50% possess "the gene", ie, at least one A2 allele (heterozygous
                                                        >A2).
                                                        > Thus 25% (half) might be homozygous A2A2, given neither A2 or A1 is
                                                        > recessive or dominant.
                                                        >
                                                        > Guernsey 90%, Jersey 60%, Holstein 50%, Br Swiss 40%, Ayrshire/SRB/NWR
                                                        > 30%.
                                                        > Most other breeds mentioned in the research papers I read 40% to 30%.
                                                        >
                                                        > Greg
                                                        >
                                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                                        > From: Flatness International
                                                        > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 3:22 PM
                                                        > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > The Holstein breed is 25% ....A2/A2...not 50%
                                                        >
                                                        > Nothing good is easy.
                                                        >
                                                        > Ron
                                                        > www.flatnessintl.com
                                                        >
                                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                                        > From: "Greg Palen" <greg@...>
                                                        > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        > Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 11:56 AM
                                                        > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                        >
                                                        > > The original research on A2A2 Beta Casein was done in New Zealand in
                                                        > the
                                                        > > 1980s. The researcher involved had health issues to which he eventually
                                                        > > succumbed, around the time Fonterra and other established dairy
                                                        > interests
                                                        > > essentially debunked his conclusions (which had been based on fairly
                                                        > > limited data), believing they were "protecting" the dairy industry.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > A decade or so later this material was reviewed by someone who decided
                                                        > it
                                                        > > should be done in a more organized fashion. I have seen references to
                                                        > > seventy studies-- done mostly in Europe (many of them funded by the
                                                        > UN's
                                                        > > World Health Organization) that do support the original NZ conclusions.
                                                        > > The Weston Price Foundation became involved after this point. It is
                                                        > > but one of the many food health issues that this Foundation pursues,
                                                        > and
                                                        > > much of their viewpoint will show up in the "Acres USA" publications,
                                                        > > alongside the views of Joel Salatin, Jo Robinson, or Michael Pollan;
                                                        > and
                                                        > > in "The Milkweed" of Peter Hardin (the food activists concerned with
                                                        > > various practices in dairy).
                                                        > >
                                                        > > A2A2 Beta Casein is in that same limbo that rBST fell into-- when ag
                                                        > > researchers line up to prove or disprove something that could have
                                                        > major
                                                        > > commercial consequences (A2 vs A1 is a major challenge to continued
                                                        > > "pooling" of milk supplies by milk cooperatives who prefer to market
                                                        > milk
                                                        > > as a volume commodity, rather than as a differentiable product capable
                                                        > of
                                                        > > some premium market sectors). The fact no one eats just milk-- and
                                                        > > that myriad variation in the total production process for milk exists--
                                                        > > makes studying single gene effects on health difficult if not
                                                        > impossible
                                                        > > to verify, which is why ultimately we just fall back on broad inference
                                                        > > from large bodies of statistics (a process many biologists find
                                                        > suspect).
                                                        > >
                                                        > > The A1 mutation of Beta Casein, which only occurs in bovines-- not in
                                                        > > humans, goats, water buffalos, or any other mammalian specie ever
                                                        > tested--
                                                        > > appears to raise a challenge to the "pure" reputation of COW milk as a
                                                        > > health food, not against milk in any other specie. But the
                                                        > > identification of a simple qualitative gene that can be removed by
                                                        > > selective breeding (as we might do with more difficulty with any lethal
                                                        > > recessive) is not a challenge to cow milk as much as it is to
                                                        > continuing
                                                        > > narrow breeding focuses that basically ignore the consumer's interest
                                                        > in
                                                        > > our practices. The identification of the A2 gene as having major
                                                        > > positive health aspects is "the road to redemption" for the bovine
                                                        > > species, in its essence an affirmation of our belief that "milk is good
                                                        > > for the body".
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Stoneyfield Yogurt is encouraging Organic Valley (CROPP) members to (1)
                                                        > > test their herds for A2, (2) use only A2A2 sires, (3) remove A1 cows as
                                                        > > they breed A2 replacements; they wish to quickly develop A2A2
                                                        > (homozygous
                                                        > > A2) herds so that their product can be labelled as produced by
                                                        > homozygous
                                                        > > A2 cows. The idea of organic producers using "science" (as the
                                                        > > technology adapting sector understands the term) as a basis for product
                                                        > > differentiation to earn premium prices is novel, if not disturbing, to
                                                        > > most mainstream observers in our food industries who are complacent
                                                        > about
                                                        > > the commoditization of milk as an industrial input.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > The bias in favor of Guernseys reflects that 90+% of the Guernsey cows
                                                        > > tested (on three continents) show as heterozygous or homozygous A2.
                                                        > > There is no negative bias against Holsteins, which test as 50% A2 (note
                                                        > a
                                                        > > majority of the LIC Friesian-type Holsteins active in AI are homozygous
                                                        > > A2A2) -- Jerseys test globally as 60% A2. If there is a negative bias
                                                        > > it would be against non-Holstein Red breeds, which are only 30% to 40%
                                                        > A2.
                                                        > > (Thus the organic grazing guy who followed the peer pressure into red
                                                        > > breed crosses may be behind his purebred Jersey or Holstein
                                                        > contemporaries
                                                        > > in reaching this goal.)
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Will we ever know with certainty if the A2 vs A1 controversy has
                                                        > > scientific merit?
                                                        > >
                                                        > > In answer, will we ever return to a stage when any ag research is
                                                        > "pure"
                                                        > > (not funded by animal rights, or environmental activists, or
                                                        > established
                                                        > > commercial interests seeking to create non-tariff trade barriers
                                                        > against
                                                        > > entrepeneurial competition) and in addition, see universal acceptance
                                                        > of
                                                        > > any conclusions that affect established commercial power?
                                                        > >
                                                        > > The point to understand about A2 is that it tends to be favored in the
                                                        > > organic dairy sector and generally ignored in the conventional
                                                        > (commodity
                                                        > > milk) sector. Thus-- like polled-- it is a genetic side street, where
                                                        > > selecting in favor of A2 will gain you genetic customers within a
                                                        > market
                                                        > > niche rather than the index mainstream.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > It is clearly not an issue with consumers outside of those seeking
                                                        > organic
                                                        > > or "real" [raw] milk-- but heaven help us if the AMA latches onto this
                                                        > > issue in any of their doctors' focus on autoimmune diseases. (Heart
                                                        > > doctors created the margarine industry as a competitor for butter-- on
                                                        > > what we now know to be "flawed" science. Misled grandmothers still
                                                        > > teach the margarine gospel to their anorexic granddaughters, as they
                                                        > paved
                                                        > > the way for their daughters to be the original obese vegetarian
                                                        > > generation.)
                                                        > >
                                                        > > As Ron's recent post indicates, mainstream breeding can be easily
                                                        > combined
                                                        > > to produce A2A2 sires. The Savage Leigh Bellwood Linda and Beachlawn
                                                        > > Blwood L Lily [high index] cow lines have both produced A2A2 sons.
                                                        > > Taurus' +2.89 Type "Morracco" bull [Roy x Outside-- a frequently
                                                        > > duplicated pedigree] is A2A2 also. Mr Sam [Durham son] at Select is
                                                        > > A2A2. Many higher profile Jersey sires [eg, Forest Glen Avery Action]
                                                        > > are A2A2.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > If the Holstein breed is already 50% A2 but is less than 1% polled, it
                                                        > > would be a much easier market to pursue. (Our latest two Jersey
                                                        > > herdsires are both polled and A2A2 Beta Casein, the Michigan
                                                        > > grazing/organic dairy market for Jersey bulls is large enough to absorb
                                                        > > all we would choose to raise in this combination.)
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Greg Palen
                                                        > >
                                                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                        > > From: Flatness International
                                                        > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > > Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 7:21 AM
                                                        > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > As well as preventing heart disease.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                        > > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                                        > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        > > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 1:21 PM
                                                        > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                        > >
                                                        > > UK Guernsey Society requires bulls imported to be certified A2/A2.
                                                        > > So there is some possible value, and certainly there are many consumers
                                                        > > who
                                                        > > think so.
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > http://ukguernsey.com/cms/the-news/1-latest-news/57-can-milk-help-autism.html
                                                        > > It it thought useful for juvenille diabetes and autism.
                                                        > > Lynn Augspurger
                                                        > >
                                                        > > --- On Mon, 7/4/11, Mark Yeazel <y2kows@...> wrote:
                                                        > >
                                                        > > From: Mark Yeazel <y2kows@...>
                                                        > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                        > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > > Date: Monday, July 4, 2011, 11:59 AM
                                                        > >
                                                        > > I did a couple searches on Google to see what I could find. A2A2 milk
                                                        > is
                                                        > > listed as everything from that savior of health to a complete hoax with
                                                        > > no
                                                        > > credible research done. Which is true?
                                                        > >
                                                        > > On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Flatness International
                                                        > > <flintl@...>wrote:
                                                        > >
                                                        > > > **
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > Thanks Lynn,
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > I understand A2/A2 milk is selling at health food stores in Aus and
                                                        > NZ
                                                        > > at
                                                        > > > a
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > premium. Any such activity seen in the US yet?
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > Ron
                                                        > > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                        > > > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                                        > > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        > > > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 8:20 AM
                                                        > > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > The last list was on this discussion group August 2, 2010. I am
                                                        > having
                                                        > > > trouble putting together a new list which includes 555HO00110 but it
                                                        > is
                                                        > > > not
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > going well. So I will post it when done. Lynn
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                                        > > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                        > > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > > > Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:12 AM
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > Where is your list of A2/A2 bulls?
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > Ron
                                                        > > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                        > > > From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                                                        > > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        > > > Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:24 AM
                                                        > > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > > Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110.
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > I've had the 555 stud code number since 2006.
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > Thanks for adding him to your list
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > Ron
                                                        > > > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                        > > > > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                                        > > > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        > > > > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:07 PM
                                                        > > > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add
                                                        > him
                                                        > > to
                                                        > > > > the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index
                                                        > > A2/A2
                                                        > > > > cow (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least
                                                        > you
                                                        > > can
                                                        > > > > sell to the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
                                                        > > > > Lynn Augspurger
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                                        > > > > Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                        > > > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > > > > Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for good
                                                        > > > > reason.
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's
                                                        > > > > all-time
                                                        > > > > best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are
                                                        > > pleased....he
                                                        > > > > is
                                                        > > > > available now.
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > Ron
                                                        > > > > www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > ------------------------------------
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > ------------------------------------
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > --
                                                        > > Mark Yeazel
                                                        > >
                                                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        > >
                                                        > > ------------------------------------
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                        > >
                                                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        > >
                                                        > > ------------------------------------
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > ------------------------------------
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > ------------------------------------
                                                        >
                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >








                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                                        ------------------------------------

                                                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                      • Greg Palen
                                                        I was a kid in school. Earl Butz wanted to farm fencerow to fencerow and Nixon raised all the farm subsidies to create some exportable surpluses. The less
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Jul 5, 2011
                                                          I was a kid in school. Earl Butz wanted to farm fencerow to fencerow and Nixon raised all the farm subsidies to create some exportable surpluses.

                                                          The less obvious point becomes who exerted what political pressure to influence what kind of subsidy and how to qualify. The class I bottling premiums were added by milk cooperative "super pool" agreements on top of the basic farm subsidy that codified milk "classes" that treated all milk not used for bottling as "surplus" to be processed (and stored) (and offered for export). A lower "class" meant a lower price for butter, nonfat powder, cream, and cheese categories (the forms the USDA could store in caves for future export, or needed for school lunches, they wanted to buy cheaper).

                                                          Market demand/supply mechanisms and producer referendums eventually pushed various regional milk orders into component pricing as a way to eliminate this unreality of bottling milk being worth more, milk solids being worth less, as fluid use was going down and hard product sales were going up. "End product pricing" is another term-- add up what is sold and for how much, distribute the farmer's share according to who is contributing the most in generating that income (the dairyman who produces protein, instead of water and high cell counts).

                                                          Today I can buy a gallon of whole milk for $2.49 a gallon at Kroger's (which is $29.88 retail for a hundred weight of milk-- assuming a 40% dairy case markup, that means a wholesale price of $17.93). In that same Kroger's I cannot find a single variety of real cheese that is not priced at least $5.00 per pound, with some up to $12.00 per pound. These imply milk values of from $50.00 to $120.00 retail ($30.00 to $72.00 wholesale) for a hundred weight of milk. Yogurt at 60 cents for six ounces implies milk values of $160.00 retail cwt, or at a wholesale level, $96.00/cwt. Even Velveeta (which is 10% real cheese and 90% added MPCs and congealed Grade B milk) is now priced $5.38 for two pounds, so at $2.69/pound is maybe a $26.90/cwt product made up from processing leftovers.

                                                          If you had a cheese plant and knew that BB Kappa Casein milk would give you 15% more cheese from the same cwt of milk as commodity pooled milk, would you be willing to pay certain farmers more to get all BB K/C milk? What prevents this? USDA rules under FMMOs, that expect that bonus to be shared by all (fed into the monthly pricing formula) and the tandem demagoguery of milk cooperative leaders who insist that "every dairyman should be paid the same" (unless he is big and deserves a volume premium). When you allow your product to become a commodity, all "genetic" differences are lost to market valuation. This is actually not very healthy for your genetic support industry's finances either.

                                                          It is always clear that the bulk of dairy income is from milk solids, and thus the higher the total components in milk, the higher the value of that milk, even for bottling (where excess solids above the legal requirement can be sold separately). The fact that 60% of milk consumed is in a non-bottled form just emphasizes the disparity between the current way milk is priced to the farmer and the value of that product once it leaves the farm. Paying us on "volume" of milk is not equitable, never was before, and is even less equitable today.

                                                          The biggest enemy of dairy farm profitability is the dairyman, eg, being focused on having the lowest hauling costs (another form of volume premium your neighbor subsidizes) thus putting all milk (good bad or indifferent) on the same truck. Saving 50 cents per hundredweight on trucking may cost a high component low cell count dairy $4 to $10 per hundredweight on the potential value he has bred and fed to produce. But you have to be a good team player and support your regional milk cooperative... which usually dictates who your hauler is... and then vote for the candidate recommended by the co-op who will "preserve dairy's position at USDA".

                                                          Unimaginative marketing of milk has led us to similarly bad genetic selection decisions, the milk check and the cull pen being the only "market feedback" a dairyman ever gets.

                                                          Greg Palen

                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          From: Flatness International
                                                          To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 3:24 PM
                                                          Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2



                                                          Do you remember how we got those glory days of the 70's?

                                                          Do you know why Congress still gives big oil subsidies?

                                                          Ron
                                                          www.flatnerssintl.com

                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          From: "Greg Palen" <greg@...>
                                                          To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 1:58 PM
                                                          Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2

                                                          > Holstein USA vs Whole Foods... classic and basic economics.
                                                          >
                                                          > The "supply" of people kept on staff at Brattleboro VT given today's
                                                          > communication and data collation technology, dramatically exceeds the
                                                          > "demand" for their services. (Plus you see the inefficiency of being
                                                          > hundreds if not thousands of miles from your current membership.
                                                          > Brattelboro VT is now "ski country" no longer "cow country".)
                                                          >
                                                          > You have a cow best suited for the 40% of the market that drinks fluid
                                                          > milk, but thanks to the foresight of Holstein leadership to exert power in
                                                          > Washington DC in the 1960s and 1970s, we see 92% of all dairy cows are
                                                          > Holstein. Can the Holstein breed still grow, justifying we keep all
                                                          > these extra people on staff, or has it peaked?
                                                          >
                                                          > This is the classic economic expression of a "matured" market.
                                                          > Holsteins are a matured breed in any economic sense. Existing
                                                          > infrastructure is capable of supporting Holstein breeders and the Holstein
                                                          > cow now and into the future. More importantly, the market is saying (in
                                                          > light of ET technology and Genomic technology) we no longer need all these
                                                          > existing Holstein breeders-- so demand for registration of calves, and all
                                                          > services such as pedigrees that are based on that registry, is not going
                                                          > to grow .
                                                          >
                                                          > Whole Foods, on the other hand, is part of a growth market-- the market
                                                          > for "premium" food, for food whose origin is known, for food whose
                                                          > production process is specified, for food fits some epicure's definition
                                                          > of added quality. (Not just the "organic" catchall, Whole Foods has
                                                          > gone way beyond simple organic).
                                                          >
                                                          > When you are in a growth industry, economics are in your favor.
                                                          > Resources (including money, but more importantly, people) are entering
                                                          > your industry. You have not yet reached that point where your products
                                                          > are so ubiquitous as to become commodities-- differences on which premium
                                                          > prices can be based are sought out, not marginalized (as we have seen in
                                                          > the dairy business-- lower the value of butterfat, lower the value of
                                                          > protein, ignore the value of variable vitamin and mineral content, deny
                                                          > the value of living digestive enzymes, cook out any differences in flavor,
                                                          > homogenize, separate and reconstitute, "commoditize").
                                                          >
                                                          > So Whole Foods can pay more, and attract better (smarter, more productive)
                                                          > people, while dodgy old "traditional" organizations in matured activities
                                                          > become repositories for ski bums who only work the minimum to pay for
                                                          > playing at the maximum, or for mental burnouts who have no future vision
                                                          > but cling to memories of past glories, thus can (and should) pay less.
                                                          >
                                                          > The dairy industry owes Holstein USA no obligation to pay its people more.
                                                          > In any market the consumer sets the price for value received. If
                                                          > Holstein cannot provide more value it also cannot demand higher prices.
                                                          > Its current CEO seems to understand that, but gets little help from his
                                                          > staff -- or his membership-- in figuring out how to add value.
                                                          >
                                                          > Trying to turn milk pricing back to the class I premium glory days of the
                                                          > 1970s is not going to help any, either, in spite of all efforts to deny
                                                          > that the cow's basic profitability on all levels-- (not just production
                                                          > but reproduction and feed efficiency)-- and fitness for adapting to the
                                                          > environmental changes in the industry, to determine her future share of
                                                          > the market, is always the issue in surviving if not thriving in any
                                                          > matured industry.
                                                          >
                                                          > Greg Palen
                                                          >
                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                          > From: Flatness International
                                                          > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 1:46 PM
                                                          > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > the website is www.betacasein.org
                                                          >
                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                          > From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                                                          > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 1:14 PM
                                                          > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                          >
                                                          > > Often the truth is somewhere in the middle....the
                                                          > > website....www.betacasein.net....seems to be fair and balanced
                                                          > >
                                                          > > My friend that grows organic potatoes just smiles and enjoys his highly
                                                          > > overpaid income.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Is organic milk better than nornal milk ? Many consumers say yes. Many
                                                          > > organic dairymen are now buying only semen from A2/A2 bulls. Is the
                                                          > > customer
                                                          > > always right...depends if you want to keep him.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Near the HFA headquarters in Vermont is the distr center for Whole
                                                          > Foods.
                                                          > > HFA employees have been on wage freezes. Whole Foods is enjoying a
                                                          > > bonanza.....is that right..no.... is it a fact...yes.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Ron
                                                          > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                          > > From: "Mark Yeazel" <y2kows@...>
                                                          > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          > > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 11:59 AM
                                                          > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >>I did a couple searches on Google to see what I could find. A2A2 milk
                                                          > is
                                                          > >> listed as everything from that savior of health to a complete hoax
                                                          > with
                                                          > >> no
                                                          > >> credible research done. Which is true?
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >> On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Flatness International
                                                          > >> <flintl@...>wrote:
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>> **
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>> Thanks Lynn,
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>> I understand A2/A2 milk is selling at health food stores in Aus and
                                                          > NZ
                                                          > >>> at
                                                          > >>> a
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>> premium. Any such activity seen in the US yet?
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>> Ron
                                                          > >>> www.flatnessintl.com
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>> ----- Original Message -----
                                                          > >>> From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                                          > >>> To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          > >>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 8:20 AM
                                                          > >>> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>> The last list was on this discussion group August 2, 2010. I am
                                                          > having
                                                          > >>> trouble putting together a new list which includes 555HO00110 but it
                                                          > is
                                                          > >>> not
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>> going well. So I will post it when done. Lynn
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>> --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>> From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                                          > >>> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                          > >>> To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > >>> Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:12 AM
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>> Where is your list of A2/A2 bulls?
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>> Ron
                                                          > >>> www.flatnessintl.com
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>> ----- Original Message -----
                                                          > >>> From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                                                          > >>> To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          > >>> Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:24 AM
                                                          > >>> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>> > Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110.
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> > I've had the 555 stud code number since 2006.
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> > Thanks for adding him to your list
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> > Ron
                                                          > >>> > www.flatnessintl.com
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> > ----- Original Message -----
                                                          > >>> > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                                          > >>> > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          > >>> > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:07 PM
                                                          > >>> > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> > Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add
                                                          > him
                                                          > >>> > to
                                                          > >>> > the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index
                                                          > >>> > A2/A2
                                                          > >>> > cow (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least
                                                          > you
                                                          > >>> > can
                                                          > >>> > sell to the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
                                                          > >>> > Lynn Augspurger
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> > --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                                          > >>> > Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                          > >>> > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > >>> > Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> > Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for good
                                                          > >>> > reason.
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> > I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's
                                                          > >>> > all-time
                                                          > >>> > best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> > He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are
                                                          > pleased....he
                                                          > >>> > is
                                                          > >>> > available now.
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> > Ron
                                                          > >>> > www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> > ------------------------------------
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>> >
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>> ------------------------------------
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >> --
                                                          > >> Mark Yeazel
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >> ------------------------------------
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >>
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > ------------------------------------
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > ------------------------------------
                                                          >
                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >








                                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        • Flatness International
                                                          Oops... wrong answer try again. ... From: Greg Palen To: Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 4:16 PM
                                                          Message 28 of 30 , Jul 5, 2011
                                                            Oops... wrong answer try again.

                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                            From: "Greg Palen" <greg@...>
                                                            To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                            Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 4:16 PM
                                                            Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2


                                                            >I was a kid in school. Earl Butz wanted to farm fencerow to fencerow
                                                            >and Nixon raised all the farm subsidies to create some exportable
                                                            >surpluses.
                                                            >
                                                            > The less obvious point becomes who exerted what political pressure to
                                                            > influence what kind of subsidy and how to qualify. The class I
                                                            > bottling premiums were added by milk cooperative "super pool" agreements
                                                            > on top of the basic farm subsidy that codified milk "classes" that treated
                                                            > all milk not used for bottling as "surplus" to be processed (and stored)
                                                            > (and offered for export). A lower "class" meant a lower price for
                                                            > butter, nonfat powder, cream, and cheese categories (the forms the USDA
                                                            > could store in caves for future export, or needed for school lunches, they
                                                            > wanted to buy cheaper).
                                                            >
                                                            > Market demand/supply mechanisms and producer referendums eventually pushed
                                                            > various regional milk orders into component pricing as a way to eliminate
                                                            > this unreality of bottling milk being worth more, milk solids being worth
                                                            > less, as fluid use was going down and hard product sales were going up.
                                                            > "End product pricing" is another term-- add up what is sold and for how
                                                            > much, distribute the farmer's share according to who is contributing the
                                                            > most in generating that income (the dairyman who produces protein, instead
                                                            > of water and high cell counts).
                                                            >
                                                            > Today I can buy a gallon of whole milk for $2.49 a gallon at Kroger's
                                                            > (which is $29.88 retail for a hundred weight of milk-- assuming a 40%
                                                            > dairy case markup, that means a wholesale price of $17.93). In that
                                                            > same Kroger's I cannot find a single variety of real cheese that is not
                                                            > priced at least $5.00 per pound, with some up to $12.00 per pound.
                                                            > These imply milk values of from $50.00 to $120.00 retail ($30.00 to $72.00
                                                            > wholesale) for a hundred weight of milk. Yogurt at 60 cents for six
                                                            > ounces implies milk values of $160.00 retail cwt, or at a wholesale level,
                                                            > $96.00/cwt. Even Velveeta (which is 10% real cheese and 90% added
                                                            > MPCs and congealed Grade B milk) is now priced $5.38 for two pounds, so at
                                                            > $2.69/pound is maybe a $26.90/cwt product made up from processing
                                                            > leftovers.
                                                            >
                                                            > If you had a cheese plant and knew that BB Kappa Casein milk would give
                                                            > you 15% more cheese from the same cwt of milk as commodity pooled milk,
                                                            > would you be willing to pay certain farmers more to get all BB K/C milk?
                                                            > What prevents this? USDA rules under FMMOs, that expect that bonus to
                                                            > be shared by all (fed into the monthly pricing formula) and the tandem
                                                            > demagoguery of milk cooperative leaders who insist that "every dairyman
                                                            > should be paid the same" (unless he is big and deserves a volume premium).
                                                            > When you allow your product to become a commodity, all "genetic"
                                                            > differences are lost to market valuation. This is actually not very
                                                            > healthy for your genetic support industry's finances either.
                                                            >
                                                            > It is always clear that the bulk of dairy income is from milk solids, and
                                                            > thus the higher the total components in milk, the higher the value of that
                                                            > milk, even for bottling (where excess solids above the legal requirement
                                                            > can be sold separately). The fact that 60% of milk consumed is in a
                                                            > non-bottled form just emphasizes the disparity between the current way
                                                            > milk is priced to the farmer and the value of that product once it leaves
                                                            > the farm. Paying us on "volume" of milk is not equitable, never was
                                                            > before, and is even less equitable today.
                                                            >
                                                            > The biggest enemy of dairy farm profitability is the dairyman, eg, being
                                                            > focused on having the lowest hauling costs (another form of volume premium
                                                            > your neighbor subsidizes) thus putting all milk (good bad or indifferent)
                                                            > on the same truck. Saving 50 cents per hundredweight on trucking may
                                                            > cost a high component low cell count dairy $4 to $10 per hundredweight on
                                                            > the potential value he has bred and fed to produce. But you have to be
                                                            > a good team player and support your regional milk cooperative... which
                                                            > usually dictates who your hauler is... and then vote for the candidate
                                                            > recommended by the co-op who will "preserve dairy's position at USDA".
                                                            >
                                                            > Unimaginative marketing of milk has led us to similarly bad genetic
                                                            > selection decisions, the milk check and the cull pen being the only
                                                            > "market feedback" a dairyman ever gets.
                                                            >
                                                            > Greg Palen
                                                            >
                                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                                            > From: Flatness International
                                                            > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                            > Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 3:24 PM
                                                            > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > Do you remember how we got those glory days of the 70's?
                                                            >
                                                            > Do you know why Congress still gives big oil subsidies?
                                                            >
                                                            > Ron
                                                            > www.flatnerssintl.com
                                                            >
                                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                                            > From: "Greg Palen" <greg@...>
                                                            > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                            > Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 1:58 PM
                                                            > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                            >
                                                            > > Holstein USA vs Whole Foods... classic and basic economics.
                                                            > >
                                                            > > The "supply" of people kept on staff at Brattleboro VT given today's
                                                            > > communication and data collation technology, dramatically exceeds the
                                                            > > "demand" for their services. (Plus you see the inefficiency of being
                                                            > > hundreds if not thousands of miles from your current membership.
                                                            > > Brattelboro VT is now "ski country" no longer "cow country".)
                                                            > >
                                                            > > You have a cow best suited for the 40% of the market that drinks fluid
                                                            > > milk, but thanks to the foresight of Holstein leadership to exert power
                                                            > in
                                                            > > Washington DC in the 1960s and 1970s, we see 92% of all dairy cows are
                                                            > > Holstein. Can the Holstein breed still grow, justifying we keep all
                                                            > > these extra people on staff, or has it peaked?
                                                            > >
                                                            > > This is the classic economic expression of a "matured" market.
                                                            > > Holsteins are a matured breed in any economic sense. Existing
                                                            > > infrastructure is capable of supporting Holstein breeders and the
                                                            > Holstein
                                                            > > cow now and into the future. More importantly, the market is saying (in
                                                            > > light of ET technology and Genomic technology) we no longer need all
                                                            > these
                                                            > > existing Holstein breeders-- so demand for registration of calves, and
                                                            > all
                                                            > > services such as pedigrees that are based on that registry, is not
                                                            > going
                                                            > > to grow .
                                                            > >
                                                            > > Whole Foods, on the other hand, is part of a growth market-- the market
                                                            > > for "premium" food, for food whose origin is known, for food whose
                                                            > > production process is specified, for food fits some epicure's
                                                            > definition
                                                            > > of added quality. (Not just the "organic" catchall, Whole Foods has
                                                            > > gone way beyond simple organic).
                                                            > >
                                                            > > When you are in a growth industry, economics are in your favor.
                                                            > > Resources (including money, but more importantly, people) are entering
                                                            > > your industry. You have not yet reached that point where your products
                                                            > > are so ubiquitous as to become commodities-- differences on which
                                                            > premium
                                                            > > prices can be based are sought out, not marginalized (as we have seen
                                                            > in
                                                            > > the dairy business-- lower the value of butterfat, lower the value of
                                                            > > protein, ignore the value of variable vitamin and mineral content, deny
                                                            > > the value of living digestive enzymes, cook out any differences in
                                                            > flavor,
                                                            > > homogenize, separate and reconstitute, "commoditize").
                                                            > >
                                                            > > So Whole Foods can pay more, and attract better (smarter, more
                                                            > productive)
                                                            > > people, while dodgy old "traditional" organizations in matured
                                                            > activities
                                                            > > become repositories for ski bums who only work the minimum to pay for
                                                            > > playing at the maximum, or for mental burnouts who have no future
                                                            > vision
                                                            > > but cling to memories of past glories, thus can (and should) pay less.
                                                            > >
                                                            > > The dairy industry owes Holstein USA no obligation to pay its people
                                                            > more.
                                                            > > In any market the consumer sets the price for value received. If
                                                            > > Holstein cannot provide more value it also cannot demand higher prices.
                                                            > > Its current CEO seems to understand that, but gets little help from his
                                                            > > staff -- or his membership-- in figuring out how to add value.
                                                            > >
                                                            > > Trying to turn milk pricing back to the class I premium glory days of
                                                            > the
                                                            > > 1970s is not going to help any, either, in spite of all efforts to deny
                                                            > > that the cow's basic profitability on all levels-- (not just production
                                                            > > but reproduction and feed efficiency)-- and fitness for adapting to the
                                                            > > environmental changes in the industry, to determine her future share of
                                                            > > the market, is always the issue in surviving if not thriving in any
                                                            > > matured industry.
                                                            > >
                                                            > > Greg Palen
                                                            > >
                                                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                            > > From: Flatness International
                                                            > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                            > > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 1:46 PM
                                                            > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > > the website is www.betacasein.org
                                                            > >
                                                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                            > > From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                                                            > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                            > > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 1:14 PM
                                                            > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                            > >
                                                            > > > Often the truth is somewhere in the middle....the
                                                            > > > website....www.betacasein.net....seems to be fair and balanced
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > > My friend that grows organic potatoes just smiles and enjoys his
                                                            > highly
                                                            > > > overpaid income.
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > > Is organic milk better than nornal milk ? Many consumers say yes.
                                                            > Many
                                                            > > > organic dairymen are now buying only semen from A2/A2 bulls. Is the
                                                            > > > customer
                                                            > > > always right...depends if you want to keep him.
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > > Near the HFA headquarters in Vermont is the distr center for Whole
                                                            > > Foods.
                                                            > > > HFA employees have been on wage freezes. Whole Foods is enjoying a
                                                            > > > bonanza.....is that right..no.... is it a fact...yes.
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > > Ron
                                                            > > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                            > > > From: "Mark Yeazel" <y2kows@...>
                                                            > > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                            > > > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 11:59 AM
                                                            > > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > >>I did a couple searches on Google to see what I could find. A2A2 milk
                                                            > > is
                                                            > > >> listed as everything from that savior of health to a complete hoax
                                                            > > with
                                                            > > >> no
                                                            > > >> credible research done. Which is true?
                                                            > > >>
                                                            > > >> On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Flatness International
                                                            > > >> <flintl@...>wrote:
                                                            > > >>
                                                            > > >>> **
                                                            > > >>>
                                                            > > >>>
                                                            > > >>> Thanks Lynn,
                                                            > > >>>
                                                            > > >>> I understand A2/A2 milk is selling at health food stores in Aus and
                                                            > > NZ
                                                            > > >>> at
                                                            > > >>> a
                                                            > > >>>
                                                            > > >>> premium. Any such activity seen in the US yet?
                                                            > > >>>
                                                            > > >>>
                                                            > > >>> Ron
                                                            > > >>> www.flatnessintl.com
                                                            > > >>>
                                                            > > >>> ----- Original Message -----
                                                            > > >>> From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                                            > > >>> To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                            > > >>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 8:20 AM
                                                            > > >>> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                            > > >>>
                                                            > > >>> The last list was on this discussion group August 2, 2010. I am
                                                            > > having
                                                            > > >>> trouble putting together a new list which includes 555HO00110 but
                                                            > it
                                                            > > is
                                                            > > >>> not
                                                            > > >>>
                                                            > > >>> going well. So I will post it when done. Lynn
                                                            > > >>>
                                                            > > >>> --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                                            > > >>>
                                                            > > >>> From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                                            > > >>> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                            > > >>> To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                            > > >>> Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:12 AM
                                                            > > >>>
                                                            > > >>> Where is your list of A2/A2 bulls?
                                                            > > >>>
                                                            > > >>> Ron
                                                            > > >>> www.flatnessintl.com
                                                            > > >>>
                                                            > > >>> ----- Original Message -----
                                                            > > >>> From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                                                            > > >>> To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                            > > >>> Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:24 AM
                                                            > > >>> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                            > > >>>
                                                            > > >>> > Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110.
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> > I've had the 555 stud code number since 2006.
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> > Thanks for adding him to your list
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> > Ron
                                                            > > >>> > www.flatnessintl.com
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> > ----- Original Message -----
                                                            > > >>> > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                                            > > >>> > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                            > > >>> > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:07 PM
                                                            > > >>> > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> > Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add
                                                            > > him
                                                            > > >>> > to
                                                            > > >>> > the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index
                                                            > > >>> > A2/A2
                                                            > > >>> > cow (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least
                                                            > > you
                                                            > > >>> > can
                                                            > > >>> > sell to the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
                                                            > > >>> > Lynn Augspurger
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> > --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                                            > wrote:
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                                            > > >>> > Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                            > > >>> > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                            > > >>> > Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> > Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for
                                                            > good
                                                            > > >>> > reason.
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> > I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of
                                                            > ZADE's
                                                            > > >>> > all-time
                                                            > > >>> > best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> > He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are
                                                            > > pleased....he
                                                            > > >>> > is
                                                            > > >>> > available now.
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> > Ron
                                                            > > >>> > www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> > ------------------------------------
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>> >
                                                            > > >>>
                                                            > > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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                                                            > > >>>
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                                                            > > >>
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                                                            > > >> --
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                                                          • Greg Palen
                                                            Quite possibly! What an amazing thing (you and I agreeing)!! I doubt if 25% of all Holstein AI bulls tested so far in the US ended up A2A2, but that can be a
                                                            Message 29 of 30 , Jul 5, 2011
                                                              Quite possibly!
                                                              What an amazing thing (you and I agreeing)!!

                                                              I doubt if 25% of all Holstein AI bulls tested so far in the US ended up A2A2, but that can be a skewed result if any high ranked A1A1 carriers were getting preferential usage.

                                                              Generation by generation the proportion of A2A2 could change (matching the disproportion of A1A1) without having much effect on the breed level of heterozygous A2 possession.

                                                              Greg

                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                              From: Flatness International
                                                              To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                              Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 3:45 PM
                                                              Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2



                                                              So we agree... 25% of Holsteins are A2/A2!

                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                              From: "Greg Palen" <greg@...>
                                                              To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                              Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 3:26 PM
                                                              Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2

                                                              >I meant 50% possess "the gene", ie, at least one A2 allele (heterozygous
                                                              >A2).
                                                              > Thus 25% (half) might be homozygous A2A2, given neither A2 or A1 is
                                                              > recessive or dominant.
                                                              >
                                                              > Guernsey 90%, Jersey 60%, Holstein 50%, Br Swiss 40%, Ayrshire/SRB/NWR
                                                              > 30%.
                                                              > Most other breeds mentioned in the research papers I read 40% to 30%.
                                                              >
                                                              > Greg
                                                              >
                                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                                              > From: Flatness International
                                                              > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                              > Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 3:22 PM
                                                              > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              > The Holstein breed is 25% ....A2/A2...not 50%
                                                              >
                                                              > Nothing good is easy.
                                                              >
                                                              > Ron
                                                              > www.flatnessintl.com
                                                              >
                                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                                              > From: "Greg Palen" <greg@...>
                                                              > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                              > Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 11:56 AM
                                                              > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                              >
                                                              > > The original research on A2A2 Beta Casein was done in New Zealand in
                                                              > the
                                                              > > 1980s. The researcher involved had health issues to which he eventually
                                                              > > succumbed, around the time Fonterra and other established dairy
                                                              > interests
                                                              > > essentially debunked his conclusions (which had been based on fairly
                                                              > > limited data), believing they were "protecting" the dairy industry.
                                                              > >
                                                              > > A decade or so later this material was reviewed by someone who decided
                                                              > it
                                                              > > should be done in a more organized fashion. I have seen references to
                                                              > > seventy studies-- done mostly in Europe (many of them funded by the
                                                              > UN's
                                                              > > World Health Organization) that do support the original NZ conclusions.
                                                              > > The Weston Price Foundation became involved after this point. It is
                                                              > > but one of the many food health issues that this Foundation pursues,
                                                              > and
                                                              > > much of their viewpoint will show up in the "Acres USA" publications,
                                                              > > alongside the views of Joel Salatin, Jo Robinson, or Michael Pollan;
                                                              > and
                                                              > > in "The Milkweed" of Peter Hardin (the food activists concerned with
                                                              > > various practices in dairy).
                                                              > >
                                                              > > A2A2 Beta Casein is in that same limbo that rBST fell into-- when ag
                                                              > > researchers line up to prove or disprove something that could have
                                                              > major
                                                              > > commercial consequences (A2 vs A1 is a major challenge to continued
                                                              > > "pooling" of milk supplies by milk cooperatives who prefer to market
                                                              > milk
                                                              > > as a volume commodity, rather than as a differentiable product capable
                                                              > of
                                                              > > some premium market sectors). The fact no one eats just milk-- and
                                                              > > that myriad variation in the total production process for milk exists--
                                                              > > makes studying single gene effects on health difficult if not
                                                              > impossible
                                                              > > to verify, which is why ultimately we just fall back on broad inference
                                                              > > from large bodies of statistics (a process many biologists find
                                                              > suspect).
                                                              > >
                                                              > > The A1 mutation of Beta Casein, which only occurs in bovines-- not in
                                                              > > humans, goats, water buffalos, or any other mammalian specie ever
                                                              > tested--
                                                              > > appears to raise a challenge to the "pure" reputation of COW milk as a
                                                              > > health food, not against milk in any other specie. But the
                                                              > > identification of a simple qualitative gene that can be removed by
                                                              > > selective breeding (as we might do with more difficulty with any lethal
                                                              > > recessive) is not a challenge to cow milk as much as it is to
                                                              > continuing
                                                              > > narrow breeding focuses that basically ignore the consumer's interest
                                                              > in
                                                              > > our practices. The identification of the A2 gene as having major
                                                              > > positive health aspects is "the road to redemption" for the bovine
                                                              > > species, in its essence an affirmation of our belief that "milk is good
                                                              > > for the body".
                                                              > >
                                                              > > Stoneyfield Yogurt is encouraging Organic Valley (CROPP) members to (1)
                                                              > > test their herds for A2, (2) use only A2A2 sires, (3) remove A1 cows as
                                                              > > they breed A2 replacements; they wish to quickly develop A2A2
                                                              > (homozygous
                                                              > > A2) herds so that their product can be labelled as produced by
                                                              > homozygous
                                                              > > A2 cows. The idea of organic producers using "science" (as the
                                                              > > technology adapting sector understands the term) as a basis for product
                                                              > > differentiation to earn premium prices is novel, if not disturbing, to
                                                              > > most mainstream observers in our food industries who are complacent
                                                              > about
                                                              > > the commoditization of milk as an industrial input.
                                                              > >
                                                              > > The bias in favor of Guernseys reflects that 90+% of the Guernsey cows
                                                              > > tested (on three continents) show as heterozygous or homozygous A2.
                                                              > > There is no negative bias against Holsteins, which test as 50% A2 (note
                                                              > a
                                                              > > majority of the LIC Friesian-type Holsteins active in AI are homozygous
                                                              > > A2A2) -- Jerseys test globally as 60% A2. If there is a negative bias
                                                              > > it would be against non-Holstein Red breeds, which are only 30% to 40%
                                                              > A2.
                                                              > > (Thus the organic grazing guy who followed the peer pressure into red
                                                              > > breed crosses may be behind his purebred Jersey or Holstein
                                                              > contemporaries
                                                              > > in reaching this goal.)
                                                              > >
                                                              > > Will we ever know with certainty if the A2 vs A1 controversy has
                                                              > > scientific merit?
                                                              > >
                                                              > > In answer, will we ever return to a stage when any ag research is
                                                              > "pure"
                                                              > > (not funded by animal rights, or environmental activists, or
                                                              > established
                                                              > > commercial interests seeking to create non-tariff trade barriers
                                                              > against
                                                              > > entrepeneurial competition) and in addition, see universal acceptance
                                                              > of
                                                              > > any conclusions that affect established commercial power?
                                                              > >
                                                              > > The point to understand about A2 is that it tends to be favored in the
                                                              > > organic dairy sector and generally ignored in the conventional
                                                              > (commodity
                                                              > > milk) sector. Thus-- like polled-- it is a genetic side street, where
                                                              > > selecting in favor of A2 will gain you genetic customers within a
                                                              > market
                                                              > > niche rather than the index mainstream.
                                                              > >
                                                              > > It is clearly not an issue with consumers outside of those seeking
                                                              > organic
                                                              > > or "real" [raw] milk-- but heaven help us if the AMA latches onto this
                                                              > > issue in any of their doctors' focus on autoimmune diseases. (Heart
                                                              > > doctors created the margarine industry as a competitor for butter-- on
                                                              > > what we now know to be "flawed" science. Misled grandmothers still
                                                              > > teach the margarine gospel to their anorexic granddaughters, as they
                                                              > paved
                                                              > > the way for their daughters to be the original obese vegetarian
                                                              > > generation.)
                                                              > >
                                                              > > As Ron's recent post indicates, mainstream breeding can be easily
                                                              > combined
                                                              > > to produce A2A2 sires. The Savage Leigh Bellwood Linda and Beachlawn
                                                              > > Blwood L Lily [high index] cow lines have both produced A2A2 sons.
                                                              > > Taurus' +2.89 Type "Morracco" bull [Roy x Outside-- a frequently
                                                              > > duplicated pedigree] is A2A2 also. Mr Sam [Durham son] at Select is
                                                              > > A2A2. Many higher profile Jersey sires [eg, Forest Glen Avery Action]
                                                              > > are A2A2.
                                                              > >
                                                              > > If the Holstein breed is already 50% A2 but is less than 1% polled, it
                                                              > > would be a much easier market to pursue. (Our latest two Jersey
                                                              > > herdsires are both polled and A2A2 Beta Casein, the Michigan
                                                              > > grazing/organic dairy market for Jersey bulls is large enough to absorb
                                                              > > all we would choose to raise in this combination.)
                                                              > >
                                                              > > Greg Palen
                                                              > >
                                                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                              > > From: Flatness International
                                                              > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                              > > Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 7:21 AM
                                                              > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > > As well as preventing heart disease.
                                                              > >
                                                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                              > > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                                              > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                              > > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 1:21 PM
                                                              > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                              > >
                                                              > > UK Guernsey Society requires bulls imported to be certified A2/A2.
                                                              > > So there is some possible value, and certainly there are many consumers
                                                              > > who
                                                              > > think so.
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > http://ukguernsey.com/cms/the-news/1-latest-news/57-can-milk-help-autism.html
                                                              > > It it thought useful for juvenille diabetes and autism.
                                                              > > Lynn Augspurger
                                                              > >
                                                              > > --- On Mon, 7/4/11, Mark Yeazel <y2kows@...> wrote:
                                                              > >
                                                              > > From: Mark Yeazel <y2kows@...>
                                                              > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                              > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                              > > Date: Monday, July 4, 2011, 11:59 AM
                                                              > >
                                                              > > I did a couple searches on Google to see what I could find. A2A2 milk
                                                              > is
                                                              > > listed as everything from that savior of health to a complete hoax with
                                                              > > no
                                                              > > credible research done. Which is true?
                                                              > >
                                                              > > On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Flatness International
                                                              > > <flintl@...>wrote:
                                                              > >
                                                              > > > **
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > Thanks Lynn,
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > I understand A2/A2 milk is selling at health food stores in Aus and
                                                              > NZ
                                                              > > at
                                                              > > > a
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > premium. Any such activity seen in the US yet?
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > Ron
                                                              > > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                              > > > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                                              > > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                              > > > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 8:20 AM
                                                              > > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > The last list was on this discussion group August 2, 2010. I am
                                                              > having
                                                              > > > trouble putting together a new list which includes 555HO00110 but it
                                                              > is
                                                              > > > not
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > going well. So I will post it when done. Lynn
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                                              > > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                              > > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                              > > > Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:12 AM
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > Where is your list of A2/A2 bulls?
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > Ron
                                                              > > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                              > > > From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                                                              > > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                              > > > Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:24 AM
                                                              > > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > > Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110.
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > I've had the 555 stud code number since 2006.
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > Thanks for adding him to your list
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > Ron
                                                              > > > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                              > > > > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                                              > > > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                              > > > > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:07 PM
                                                              > > > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add
                                                              > him
                                                              > > to
                                                              > > > > the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index
                                                              > > A2/A2
                                                              > > > > cow (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least
                                                              > you
                                                              > > can
                                                              > > > > sell to the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
                                                              > > > > Lynn Augspurger
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                                              > > > > Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                              > > > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                              > > > > Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for good
                                                              > > > > reason.
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's
                                                              > > > > all-time
                                                              > > > > best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are
                                                              > > pleased....he
                                                              > > > > is
                                                              > > > > available now.
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > Ron
                                                              > > > > www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > ------------------------------------
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > ------------------------------------
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > > --
                                                              > > Mark Yeazel
                                                              > >
                                                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                              > >
                                                              > > ------------------------------------
                                                              > >
                                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                              > >
                                                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                              > >
                                                              > > ------------------------------------
                                                              > >
                                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > > ------------------------------------
                                                              > >
                                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                              > >
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                                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                            • Roy MacGregor
                                                              There is that do you talk about memories or dreams again. Greg this is easily my favorite post on here. You can follow the crowd off the cliff or decide to do
                                                              Message 30 of 30 , Jul 6, 2011
                                                                There is that do you talk about memories or dreams again.
                                                                Greg this is easily my favorite post on here.
                                                                You can follow the crowd off the cliff or decide to do things different
                                                                We all need to pay more attention to what's in the milk if you wait for conformation from the experts you will be last in line.
                                                                Breeders can take control of their genetics or they can let the big
                                                                A.I test their cows for free. When single herds get over 50 bulls tested in a single round the control factor is already in
                                                                overdrive.
                                                                If there are too many employees in our herdbook offices what
                                                                Do you call our A.I structures? Our herdbooks are in bed with
                                                                A.I otherwise branding prefixes would never had been allowed
                                                                and breeders would have the right to their own animals information
                                                                before being forced to sign contracts on the unknown.
                                                                It is totally screwed up.

                                                                Nothing is free.

                                                                Sent from my iPhone

                                                                On Jul 5, 2011, at 4:26 PM, "Jamie" <jtaitjamieson@...> wrote:

                                                                > Greg wrote: "while dodgy old "traditional" organizations in matured activities become
                                                                > repositories for ski bums who only work the minimum to pay for playing at the
                                                                > maximum, or for mental burnouts who have no future vision but cling to memories
                                                                > of past glories, thus can (and should) pay less."
                                                                >
                                                                > Jamie says: Tell it like it is Greg. Don't pull your punches! :-)
                                                                >
                                                                > --- In PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Palen" <greg@...> wrote:
                                                                > >
                                                                > > Holstein USA vs Whole Foods... classic and basic economics.
                                                                > >
                                                                > > The "supply" of people kept on staff at Brattleboro VT given today's communication and data collation technology, dramatically exceeds the "demand" for their services. (Plus you see the inefficiency of being hundreds if not thousands of miles from your current membership.
                                                                > > Brattelboro VT is now "ski country" no longer "cow country".)
                                                                > >
                                                                > > You have a cow best suited for the 40% of the market that drinks fluid milk, but thanks to the foresight of Holstein leadership to exert power in Washington DC in the 1960s and 1970s, we see 92% of all dairy cows are Holstein. Can the Holstein breed still grow, justifying we keep all these extra people on staff, or has it peaked?
                                                                > >
                                                                > > This is the classic economic expression of a "matured" market. Holsteins are a matured breed in any economic sense. Existing infrastructure is capable of supporting Holstein breeders and the Holstein cow now and into the future. More importantly, the market is saying (in light of ET technology and Genomic technology) we no longer need all these existing Holstein breeders-- so demand for registration of calves, and all services such as pedigrees that are based on that registry, is not going to grow .
                                                                > >
                                                                > > Whole Foods, on the other hand, is part of a growth market-- the market for "premium" food, for food whose origin is known, for food whose production process is specified, for food fits some epicure's definition of added quality. (Not just the "organic" catchall, Whole Foods has gone way beyond simple organic).
                                                                > >
                                                                > > When you are in a growth industry, economics are in your favor. Resources (including money, but more importantly, people) are entering your industry. You have not yet reached that point where your products are so ubiquitous as to become commodities-- differences on which premium prices can be based are sought out, not marginalized (as we have seen in the dairy business-- lower the value of butterfat, lower the value of protein, ignore the value of variable vitamin and mineral content, deny the value of living digestive enzymes, cook out any differences in flavor, homogenize, separate and reconstitute, "commoditize").
                                                                > >
                                                                > > So Whole Foods can pay more, and attract better (smarter, more productive) people, while dodgy old "traditional" organizations in matured activities become repositories for ski bums who only work the minimum to pay for playing at the maximum, or for mental burnouts who have no future vision but cling to memories of past glories, thus can (and should) pay less.
                                                                > >
                                                                > > The dairy industry owes Holstein USA no obligation to pay its people more. In any market the consumer sets the price for value received. If Holstein cannot provide more value it also cannot demand higher prices. Its current CEO seems to understand that, but gets little help from his staff -- or his membership-- in figuring out how to add value.
                                                                > >
                                                                > > Trying to turn milk pricing back to the class I premium glory days of the 1970s is not going to help any, either, in spite of all efforts to deny that the cow's basic profitability on all levels-- (not just production but reproduction and feed efficiency)-- and fitness for adapting to the environmental changes in the industry, to determine her future share of the market, is always the issue in surviving if not thriving in any matured industry.
                                                                > >
                                                                > > Greg Palen
                                                                > >
                                                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                > > From: Flatness International
                                                                > > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                                > > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 1:46 PM
                                                                > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                                > >
                                                                > >
                                                                > >
                                                                > > the website is www.betacasein.org
                                                                > >
                                                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                > > From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                                                                > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                > > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 1:14 PM
                                                                > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                                > >
                                                                > > > Often the truth is somewhere in the middle....the
                                                                > > > website....www.betacasein.net....seems to be fair and balanced
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > My friend that grows organic potatoes just smiles and enjoys his highly
                                                                > > > overpaid income.
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > Is organic milk better than nornal milk ? Many consumers say yes. Many
                                                                > > > organic dairymen are now buying only semen from A2/A2 bulls. Is the
                                                                > > > customer
                                                                > > > always right...depends if you want to keep him.
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > Near the HFA headquarters in Vermont is the distr center for Whole Foods.
                                                                > > > HFA employees have been on wage freezes. Whole Foods is enjoying a
                                                                > > > bonanza.....is that right..no.... is it a fact...yes.
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > Ron
                                                                > > > www.flatnessintl.com
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                > > > From: "Mark Yeazel" <y2kows@...>
                                                                > > > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                > > > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 11:59 AM
                                                                > > > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > >>I did a couple searches on Google to see what I could find. A2A2 milk is
                                                                > > >> listed as everything from that savior of health to a complete hoax with
                                                                > > >> no
                                                                > > >> credible research done. Which is true?
                                                                > > >>
                                                                > > >> On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Flatness International
                                                                > > >> <flintl@...>wrote:
                                                                > > >>
                                                                > > >>> **
                                                                > > >>>
                                                                > > >>>
                                                                > > >>> Thanks Lynn,
                                                                > > >>>
                                                                > > >>> I understand A2/A2 milk is selling at health food stores in Aus and NZ
                                                                > > >>> at
                                                                > > >>> a
                                                                > > >>>
                                                                > > >>> premium. Any such activity seen in the US yet?
                                                                > > >>>
                                                                > > >>>
                                                                > > >>> Ron
                                                                > > >>> www.flatnessintl.com
                                                                > > >>>
                                                                > > >>> ----- Original Message -----
                                                                > > >>> From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                                                > > >>> To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                > > >>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 8:20 AM
                                                                > > >>> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                                > > >>>
                                                                > > >>> The last list was on this discussion group August 2, 2010. I am having
                                                                > > >>> trouble putting together a new list which includes 555HO00110 but it is
                                                                > > >>> not
                                                                > > >>>
                                                                > > >>> going well. So I will post it when done. Lynn
                                                                > > >>>
                                                                > > >>> --- On Sun, 7/3/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                                                > > >>>
                                                                > > >>> From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                                                > > >>> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                                > > >>> To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                                > > >>> Date: Sunday, July 3, 2011, 8:12 AM
                                                                > > >>>
                                                                > > >>> Where is your list of A2/A2 bulls?
                                                                > > >>>
                                                                > > >>> Ron
                                                                > > >>> www.flatnessintl.com
                                                                > > >>>
                                                                > > >>> ----- Original Message -----
                                                                > > >>> From: "Flatness International" <flintl@...>
                                                                > > >>> To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                > > >>> Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 3:24 AM
                                                                > > >>> Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                                > > >>>
                                                                > > >>> > Hi Lynnn.... his stud code number is 555HO00110.
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> > I've had the 555 stud code number since 2006.
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> > Thanks for adding him to your list
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> > Ron
                                                                > > >>> > www.flatnessintl.com
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                > > >>> > From: "LYNN AUGSPURGER" <augspurger@...>
                                                                > > >>> > To: <PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                > > >>> > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:07 PM
                                                                > > >>> > Subject: Re: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> > Good for you. Now if we had his stud code and number we could add him
                                                                > > >>> > to
                                                                > > >>> > the list of A2/A2 bulls. Now you need to find a polled high index
                                                                > > >>> > A2/A2
                                                                > > >>> > cow (homozygous polled would be great) and carry it on. At least you
                                                                > > >>> > can
                                                                > > >>> > sell to the Amish who insist now on A2/A2.
                                                                > > >>> > Lynn Augspurger
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> > --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Flatness International <flintl@...> wrote:
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> > From: Flatness International <flintl@...>
                                                                > > >>> > Subject: [PolledDairyCows] A2/A2
                                                                > > >>> > To: PolledDairyCows@yahoogroups.com
                                                                > > >>> > Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:20 PM
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> > Recently I had questions regarding Beta-Casein, A2/A2......for good
                                                                > > >>> > reason.
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> > I believed a high milk index , high Net Merit son of one of ZADE's
                                                                > > >>> > all-time
                                                                > > >>> > best Excellent (91)2E dtrs , may be such a bull.
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> > He is DEFENDER ..and he is now officially A2/A2 ..we are pleased....he
                                                                > > >>> > is
                                                                > > >>> > available now.
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> > Ron
                                                                > > >>> > www.flatnessintl.com/defender.html
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> > ------------------------------------
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>> >
                                                                > > >>>
                                                                > > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                                > > >>>
                                                                > > >>> ------------------------------------
                                                                > > >>>
                                                                > > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                > > >>>
                                                                > > >>>
                                                                > > >>>
                                                                > > >>
                                                                > > >>
                                                                > > >>
                                                                > > >> --
                                                                > > >> Mark Yeazel
                                                                > > >>
                                                                > > >>
                                                                > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                                > > >>
                                                                > > >>
                                                                > > >>
                                                                > > >> ------------------------------------
                                                                > > >>
                                                                > > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                > > >>
                                                                > > >>
                                                                > > >>
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > ------------------------------------
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > >
                                                                > >
                                                                > >
                                                                > >
                                                                > >
                                                                > >
                                                                > >
                                                                > >
                                                                > >
                                                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                                > >
                                                                >
                                                                >


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