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Affinity between DRAVIDIAN and TURKISH

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  • Polat Kaya
    Dear Ram Varmha, Thank you for your letter regarding the name Dravidian. My respond follows. You said: It is my understanding that the word Tamil (properly
    Message 1 of 1 , Oct 2, 2004
      Dear Ram Varmha,

      Thank you for your letter regarding the name Dravidian. My respond follows.

      You said:

      "It is my understanding that the word Tamil (properly Tamizh) has been
      identified with Dravida, the Sanskrit generic definition for the South
      Indian peoples and their languages."

      "Therefore, I am confused about the etymology of the name 'Dravidian',
      as in the portion of your text below. Are you not comparing a late
      1800AD word, Dravidian, (coined by an Englishman), with Turkish or
      Turkic, as the base of origin for that word, to establish relationship
      between Dravidian and Turanian? Furthermore, the suffix 'ian' is an
      anglicized additive, such as Ind - Ind_ian; Dravid - Dravid_ian."

      Thus DRAVIDA from the Sanskrit source says that they were an ancient
      peoples.

      There is a reference saying that the Sanskrit term "dravida" means
      "south". This meaning is not relevant to the name DRAVIDA. As it is
      understood from your definition above, the term DRAVIDA describes the
      identity of a group of ancient peoples. The name does not have any
      relation to the "south", i.e., even if DRAVIDA people were living in a
      much more northern geography, they would still be known by the name
      DRAVIDA. Evidently, the final destination of the Dravidians was
      the South Indian continent and southeast Asia. Their Turkish-like
      agglutinative language is an indication that they were one of the
      branches of the ancient Turanian "Tur/Turk peoples, who, like many
      other Tur/Turk peoples, migrated from their homeland in Turan in Asia
      to many other parts of the world. Thus the name DRAVIDA must refer to
      tribal roots and also to their religious Sky-God deity with whom they were
      associated. The name TUR is one name of the ancient Turanian Sky-God. This
      name is also known in the form of TYR or THOR in western languages.
      Of course TUR is the generic name of the TUR/TURK peoples also. In ancient
      times the identification of religious affiliation of the people within
      their tribal identity name was an important aspect of the name.

      When British linguist Bishop Caldwell used the term DRAVIDIAN, in
      actuality he was not coining a new word, but rather he was using the
      already available Sanskrit term DRAVIDA and was adding an IAN suffix
      to it. Although, the term DRAVIDIAN is not ancient, the root term
      DRAVID, DRAVIDA, etc. is ancient as you have also indicated.

      Turkish being the Turanian language is a very ancient language
      contrary to the views of the establishment. It is my view that
      without knowing Turkish and Turkish culture, modern linguists
      are not going to solve their problems. Turkish is the so-called
      "PROTO" language that linguists are looking for. Even the name
      "PROTO" is from Turkish "BIRATA" meaning "one father".

      My view in the analysis of the etymology of the word DRAVIDA is that
      it is a composite word made up of "DR + AVI + DA" from Turkish words
      of "TUR + AVI + DI". In this composition, the word DR or DUR, is the
      term TUR which is a generic name for the TUR/TURK peoples. AVI is the
      Turkish term "EVI" (ÖYÜ, OYU) meaning "the house, home, homeland,
      country" and DI or IDI is the verbal suffix of the verb "to be", that
      is, "OLMAK" in Turkish. Thus in modern Turkish, the whole composition
      means "TUR + EVI + IDI" literally meaning "Tur + the house + was"
      indicating that "they were TUR homes (peoples)". TUR peoples spoke
      TURKISH and they have done that since very ancient times. Regarding
      the word "TUR" or "DUR", the following examples can help to understand
      it better. For example:

      a) The name TURKIA (TURCIA) is a living example of it. It is made up
      from "TURK + IA" ("TÜRKIYE", "Türk öyü") meaning "Home of Turks" or
      "house of Turks" The suffix -IA, and/or -YE are versions of old
      Turkish
      word "ÖY" meaning "home, house, land, country". In the name TURKIA,
      there is the root word TUR embedded in it.

      b) The name "THRACIA" (TIRAKIA) is an anagram of Turkish "TURUK OYU"
      (TURK OYU) again meaning "home of Turks" which again has the root word
      TUR in it.

      c) The name ETRURIA, the land of ancient ETRUSCANS, is also the
      anagram of Turkish expression "TUR ER OYU" meaning "home of TUR men".
      Both names ETRURIA and ETRUSCANS have TUR embedded in them..

      d) The ancient name TROY is a distortion of Turkish "TUR ÖY" again
      meaning "House of Turs". The root word TR and TUR are in the name.

      e) In a similar manner, so is the name DRAVIDIAN as I explained above.

      Regarding Dravidians, Michael Wood writes the following: [1]

      "A new picture has begun to emerge, only since the 1980s. The crucial
      discovery has been the proving beyond any doubt, that the ancient
      pre-Aryan language of Iran, Elamite, is cognate with the ancient
      Dravidian languages still spoken in Southern India, best known of
      which is Tamil. These languages descend from a prehistoric speech
      spoken today in Iran and northwestern India, and doubtless in the
      early villages like Mehrgarh: indeed a pocket of related language,
      Braui, is still spoken today in a small area of West Pakistan on the
      Iranian border. The original proto-language split up around 5000 BC,
      at a guess, after the invention of agriculture, to judge by its common
      terminology in Elamite and Dravidian."

      "The Indus civilization was almost certainly Dravidian, its culture
      closely related to Elamite world of Iran." [2]

      Pre-Iranian culture was Turanian culture and civilization before the
      Aryans. Indus civilization was also a Turanian culture like the
      Sumerian culture was. Dravidian being related to these ancient
      cultures ties them all together and also to Turkish. They are all
      agglutinative languages although historians and linguists are
      conditioned not to mention the name Tur/Turk.

      Just because we are told that British linguist Bishop Caldwell coined
      the term Dravidian in the 1800's, we should not automatically assume
      that he invented it from scratch or that his coined term is pure
      English. Evidently the Bishop Caldwell took the ancient name
      DRAVID or DRAVIDA and converted it into the present form of DRAVIDIAN
      as an English word. However this newly formed form of the word does
      not wipe away the ancientness of the root name. Additionally the
      suffix IAN does not belong to the English language at all in origin.
      The so-called "English" suffix IAN is really a version of Turkish expression
      "OY + AN" ("IA + AN", "öyler") meaning "houses, homes". The suffix AN
      is an ancient Turkish suffix indicating plurality. We must also
      understand that the sources offering the etymology of Dravidian as
      "coined by British linguist Bishop Caldwell in the 1800's" does not
      constitute an etymology at all. Such an atymology would simply be a
      sophistry obliterating its Turkic origin.

      Similarly the IAN at the end of the word INDIAN is also Turkic in
      origin. Tur/Turk peoples have been in India throughout the known
      history. For that reason, INDIA is known as HINDUSTAN in Turkish. The
      magnificent TAJ-MAHAL, a marble mausoleum built (1631-1645) at Agra,
      India, by the Turkic Mogul Emperor Shah Jahan, in memory of his wife,
      is one of the recent monuments left behind by Turkic peoples in India.
      When documentaries "inform" us that it was built by a "Moslem ruler",
      they are deliberately avoiding the term "Turkish ruler" in order to
      bury the Turkicness of this wonder. Even the architect of the Taj
      Mahal was Turkish (Isa Celebi). Turks and the Turkish language have
      significantly impacted in the make up of the URDU language.

      Through extensive research into many English language words, I have
      discovered that English, just like Greek, Latin and other
      European languages, is an artificially manufactured language using
      Turkish words and phrases as source material which are then
      anagrammatized into "English" to diguise the Turkic origin. The suffix
      IAN is one such restructured suffix from Turkish. This is not known by
      linguists.

      For example, compare the following Dravidian words with corresponding
      Turkish words for very close affinity of these two languages. (The
      Dravidian source is from internet site called "A DRAVIDIAN
      ETYMOLOGICAL DICTIONARY", by T. Burrow and M. B. Emeneau. I wish to
      salute these authors for the excellent work that they have done in
      providing us with such a dictionary on Dravidian languages) at URL:

      http://dsal.uchicago.edu/dictionaries/burrow/

      1. Dravidian (Dr.): AN upper part;

      Turkish (Tr.) "AN" meaning "sky" as in "TANRI" meaning "GOD" from
      "aTa + AN + ERI" (ATA AN ERI) meaning "Father Man of Sky".

      2. Dr. ANNAL greatness, exaltation, superiority, great man, king, god;

      Tr. "HAN AN AL" meaning "Lord Sky Red" referring to sun god. Tr. HAN king.

      3. Dr. ENRU the sun;

      Tr. TANRU god, sun god.

      4. Dr. ADDI heat of the sun;

      Tr. ODDI "it is hot", "it is fire"

      5a. Dr, ACCAN father, lord; ACCA mother;

      Tr. ECHE father, mother; ECHE HAN lord father, lord mother.

      5b) Dr. AJJA grandfather; AJJI grandmother.

      Tr. ECHE greatfather or greatmother, that is, for the elder and/or
      head person of the house.; it is a duality term which can be used for
      both man and women leader of the family. For example, Tr. TANRIÇE
      (goddess) is from "TANRI ECHE" (god greatmother).

      6. Dr. PULLI, PULLE, BOLLE mark, dot, speck, spot.

      Tr. PULLU meaning with specks, dots,. marks.

      7. Dr. (Tu.) KAR-BULE, KAR-BOLLE a fowl having white plumage with
      black spots.

      Tr. KARA PULLU meaning "with black spots, specks".

      8. Dr. (Ta.) ARAM moral or religious duty, virtue;

      Tr. AR virtue, modesty, honesty, bashful, chaste.

      9. Dr. (Ta.) KATA cut through ridge of paddy-field to let surplus
      water run off;

      Tr. AKIT meaning "to let the water run off".

      10. Dr. (Ta.) KATA inferior, worse than;

      Tr. KÖTÜ bad, inferior, poor in quality.

      11a. Dr. (Ta.) IRAI anyone who is great (as one's father or guru or
      any renowned and illustrious person), master, chief, elder brother,
      husband, king, supreme god, height, head, eminence;

      Tr. ER man, husband, hero, warrior, soldier.
      Tr. ERAY moon-man, moon-god, venerable person.

      11b. Dr. IRAIMAI kingly superiority, celebrity, government,
      divinity;

      Tr. "ER AY MA" meaning "magnificent moon man" referring to a divinity
      or a superiority.

      11c. Dr. IRAIVAN god, chief, master, husband, venerable person;

      Tr. "ER AY-HAN" meaning "Man Moon-Lord" (god), lord man, head man.

      12. Dr. (Ta.) ARU (ARI-) state of being dried, etc.;

      Tr. KURU dry, dried up.

      13. Dr. ARISU to cause to go out, allay, dry (tr.);

      Tr. KURUSU dried up water.

      14. Dr. AR (ART-) to be dried, dry up, disappear;

      Tr. ERI- to melt away, to disappear as in snow melting and
      disappearing.

      15. Dr. ARIKE state of growing or being dry or parched;

      Tr. ARIK channel, channel cut to dry up a watery land.

      16. Dr. (Ta.) KANAL (kanalv-, kananr-) sun, heat, sun's ray, light;

      Tr. KUN (GÜN) sun; KUN AL (AL GÜN) red hot sun, hot sun.

      17. Dr. KANI (-v-,-nt-) to be redhot, glow, get angry;

      Tr. a) KUN (GÜN) sun, b) KAN blood, blood colour; c) KAN OL becoming
      blood red as one gets angry ( Turkish "Yüzü KAN GIBI OLMAK" meaning
      "face gettin very red when angry").

      18. Dr. KANARCI heat, glow, anger;

      Tr. KIZARAN glowing red hot, and also face getting red when one gets
      angry.

      19. Dr. (Ta.) KARU black;

      Tr. KARA black.

      20. Dr. KARUKKAL darkness, twilight, cloudiness;

      Tr. KARA GOK dark sky; KARANLUK darkness.

      21. Dr. (Ta.) KARU sunburnt paddy crop;
      KARUKKU (karukki-) to darken by heat, burn, scorch, toast, fry;
      KARUKU (karuki-) to be scorched, blackened by fire or sun;

      Tr. KURAKLUK drought, causing burned out crop by sun. KURU dry.

      22. Dr. (Ta.) APPAN, APPU father;

      Tr. BABA, APA father

      23. Dr. APPACCI father;

      Tr. BABACIK dear father, endearnment of father.

      24. Dr. APPATTAI elder sister;

      Tr. APLA / ABLA elder sister.

      25. Dr. (Ta.) ATTAN father, elder, person of rank or eminence;

      Tr. ATA father, ATA HAN lord father, elder person of rank or eminence;

      26. Dr. ATTISU to cause to evaporate by boiling;

      Tr. ATTI SU (SU ATTI) threw away its water, evaporated.

      27. Dr. ANTARISU to evaporate, as water by boiling;

      Tr. SUYUNI ATAR it throws away its water, it evaporates.

      28. Dr. (To.) POT mountain (esp. tit pot id.).

      Tr. "TEPE hill;

      29. Dr. (Ka.) BETTA, BETTU big hill, mountain;

      Tr. TEPETU "it is hill, it is mountain".

      30. Dr. (Te.) AMMA, AMA mother, matron; hon. title of woman;

      Tr. ANA, ANNA, ANNE mother; MAMA, MEME mother, mother's breast.

      31. Dr. (To.) UF IN- (ID-) to blow, blow away (e.g. ashes);

      Tr. ÜFLEMEK to blow, blow away.

      32. Dr. (Ka.) UPH, UPHI sound emitted when strongly blowing with the
      mouth to remove impurities;

      Tr. ÜFLEMEK (ISLIK) to blow whisle.

      33. Dr. (Ta.) IYANKU (IYANKI-) to move, stir, go, proceed, walk about;
      in.movement, act of going;

      Tr. "UYANUK" being awake, moving, stirring, going. Almost identical.

      34. Dr. (Ta. ) TIRAGANI, TIRAGANE, TIRUGANI, TIRUGANE, TIRUGUNI
      turning, that which turns, a wheel for raising water;

      Tr. TONERGAN (dönergen) that which turns, that which returns.

      Note: It seems that the Dravidian suffixes -LI and -CI are very
      similar to Turkish -LI and -CI.

      Ram, this is a small sample that I researched in my very limited time.
      With all these examples, Dravidian and Turkish can be regarded as being
      very related to each other as their names also suggest. In fact, they
      are almost sister languages. Over thousands of years of separation,
      they have somehow been alienated from each other.

      I hope this answers your question.

      My best wishes to you in your endeavor,

      Polat Kaya

      02/10/2004

      The reader is cordially invited to visit Polat Kaya Library for other
      writings at URL:
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Polat_Kaya/

      ================


      > Ram Varmha wrote:
      >
      > Dear Dr. Polat Kaya,
      >
      > I was very interested in your article on Tur-Turk of Turania. Ref:
      > ANCIENT TURS/TURKS OF TURAN AND THEIR LEGACIES TO THE WORLD
      > ("Sumerians" - Ancient Turanian Tur/Turk people)By POLAT KAYA
      >
      >
      > However, I will appreciate clarification on the paragraph below, re
      > Dravidians. It is my understanding that the word Tamil (properly
      > Tamizh) has been identified with Dravida, the Sanskrit generic
      > definition for the South Indian peoples and their languages. The
      > word was derived from old Buddhist and Jain texts; Dramilia,
      > Dramila, Damila, Tamizha, Tamizh, Tamil. The South Indian language
      > family of Tamil, Malayalam, Telugu and Kannada was given the name
      > 'Dravidian' by the eminent British linguist Bishop Caldwell in his
      > Comparative Grammar of the Dravidian Languages, 1875. The word
      > Dravidian was Caldwell's creation; nothing ancient about that.
      >
      > Therefore, I am confused about the etymology of the name
      > 'Dravidian', as in the portion of your text below. Are you not
      > comparing a late 1800AD word, Dravidian, (coined by an
      > Englishman), with Turkish or Turkic, as the base of origin for that
      > word, to establish relationship between Dravidian and Turanian?
      > Furthermore, the suffix 'ian' is an anglicized additive, such as Ind
      > - Ind_ian; Dravid - Dravid_ian.
      >
      > Will you kindly clarify?
      >
      > Thanks and with regards.
      >
      > Ram Varmha
      >
      >
      >
      > http://www.compmore.net/~tntr/tur1.html
      >
      > DRAVIDIAN
      >
      > Some scholars bring forth the similarities between the DRAVIDIAN and
      > Sumerian languages. Encyclopaedia Britannica World Languages
      > Dictionary [1963, Vol.1, p. 384] defines DRAVIDIAN as follows:
      >
      > "ONE BELONGING TO THE MOST ANCIENT INDIGENOUS RACE OF SOUTHERN
      > INDIA. A NON-INDO-EUROPEAN FAMILY OF AGGLUTINATIVE LANGUAGES SPOKEN
      > PRIMARILY IN SOUTHERN INDIA AND NORTHERN CEYLON, INCLUDING TAMIL,
      > MALAYALAM, KANARESE, AND TELUGU".
      >
      > Let us examine the etymology of the name DRAVIDIAN: "DR-AVIDI-AN" <
      > Turkish "DuR-AVIDI-AN" (TUR-EVIDI-LER) meaning "They were Houses of
      > Turs". Indeed this is most enlightening. What everybody keeps
      > calling "Dravidian" without knowing who they were ethnically turns
      > out to be the most ancient Tur/Turk people of India. Their name
      > "DUR-AVIDI-AN" / "TUR-EVIDI-LER" tells it in plain Turkish. But
      > writing the name in such a concatenated manner makes them
      > unrecognizable as Turkish. This is a form of anagrammatizing or
      > disguising of Turkish language names and titles. There appears to
      > be a deception being perpetrated which the scholars should take note
      > of. We must note that the cleverly disguised word DR is nothing but
      > the word DUR/TUR indicating the name of TUR/TURK peoples. Secondly
      > the term AVIDI is nothing but the Turkish phrase EV-IDI meaning "It
      > was the house of". And thirdly, the ancient Turkic term AN has a
      > number of meanings expressed by it, one of which is the ancient
      > Turkic plurality suffix, presently -LER/LAR in Turkish. [7] [For AN
      > as Turkish plurality suffix, see Karl H. Menges, "The Turkic
      > Languages and Peoples An Introduction to Turkic Studies", Otto
      > Harrassowitz, Wiesbaden, 1968, p. 111]. The suffix -ian that
      > appears at the end of many names such as Sumer-ian, actually is from
      > Turkic phrase 'ui-an" (uyler/öyler) meaning "the houses". The
      > suffix refers to the branches of peoples separated from the main
      > family of Turs.
      >
      >
      >
      > A service
      > of allingus Professional Language Solutions Co. - Istanbul
      > allingus@...
      >

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