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Polands Dirty Work

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  • Danuta Janina Wójcik
    Witam, That is quite the remark, Dear M. Poland is known to preserve and respect grave sites. The second finding of Swedish gravesite, happens to be on my
    Message 1 of 26 , Dec 3, 2008
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      Witam,

      That is quite the remark, Dear M.

      Poland is known to preserve and respect grave sites.  The second finding of  Swedish gravesite, happens to be on my 1st cousins - street.  I have seen it, there  is a wooden cross erected in the farmers field, where the remains are found.

       

      17,000 Swedes found in Polish mass grave

      Published: 4 Nov 06 18:30 CET
      Online: http://www.thelocal.se/5409/20061104/

      Polish archaeologists have succeeded in locating mass graves containing the remains of 17,000 Swedish soldiers, Aftonbladet reports.

       
      The soldiers perished at the Battle of Kalisz in western Poland on October 29, 1706, six years into the Great Northern War. The battle was part of King Karl XII’s unexpected campaign against neutral Poland-Lithuania, which began after Swedish forces split the Russian army in two at the Battle of Narva in 1700.

      The war finally ended in defeat for Sweden at the Treaty of Nystad in 1721.

      Archaeologist Leszek Ziabka claims that Sweden has displayed a complete lack of interest in the fate of its fallen troops.

      “Swedish authorities have a list of all the names but don’t care about them,” Ziabka told Aftonbladet.

      General Arvid Axel Mardefelt’s troops were severely routed at the Battle of Kalisz, which lasted just two and a half hours. Those Swedish soldiers not slain in the heat of battle were quickly pursued and killed by a contingent of Ukrainian Cossacks.

      “We have so far dug up eight complete skeletons. The remains of at least 1,000 Swedes are located here,” said Ziabka.

      A second mass grave at nearby Koscielna Wies contains the remains of a further 16,000 Swedish soldiers, according to Polish news agency PAP. The agency further reports that farmers in the region have begun digging up skeletons, as well as weapons belonging to the Swedish soldiers.

      The Polish archaeologist explained that his team lacks the resources to analyse the finds. But should his Swedish counterparts show an interest they will be given full access to the three centuries old remains of their countrymen.

      “Despite the fact that Sweden is no longer interested in its fallen soldiers we in Poland intend to erect a monument to them,” said Ziabka.

      News agency PAP reported that the Swedish soldiers will not be forgotten on All Saints’ Day – Polish farmers plan to light candles on the mass graves as a mark of respect.
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 3:59 AM
      Subject: [Poland-speaks-out] Re: Polands Dirty Work

      Dear M.,

      Sorry for the lost of your family grave. I had a look for any news
      about this event but could find nothing on the web.

      May I ask what facts you actually have? If I understand it correctly
      something has happen to the cemetery and you have assumed it was the
      Polish Government/Poles responsibility. This maybe true but without
      proof I have my doubt.

      In my limited experience the cemetery is likely private or part of
      Church land not a public cemetery e.g. many Jewish cemeteries belong
      to them rather than being public.

      Even if it turns out the Polish Government authorized it then as long
      as they followed the law it is nothing to complain about e.g. here in
      the UK the government is looking at various ways to deal with
      overcrowding in cemeteries. After my Parents death it will fall to me
      to ensure that our ownership of the plot of land is maintained and if
      necessary fight to stop them refusing the land.

      If the Polish government has illegally taken the land or illegally
      authorised the taking of the land then it definitely something to
      complain about. I would support such a complaint BUT I need proof of
      wrong doing by the Polish Government/Poles which currently you failed
      to provide.

      Regards

      Jan Niechwiadowicz, Cardiff

    • theforce
      Witam, That is quite the remark, Dear M. Poland is known to preserve and respect grave sites. The second finding of Swedish gravesite, happens to be on my 1st
      Message 2 of 26 , Dec 3, 2008
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        Witam,
        That is quite the remark, Dear M.
        Poland is known to preserve and respect grave sites. The second finding of Swedish gravesite, happens to be on my 1st cousins - street. I have seen it, there is a wooden cross erected in the farmers field, where the remains are found.

         

         Well Obviously, They didn’t this time…perhaps because Rusyns were involved. What’s even more outrageous is that it’s in the middle of nothing and across the street from a church. No reason to bull doze!!!

         Praise your government if you like,  to me THEY SUCK!

         


        Sorry for the lost of your family grave. I had a look for any news
        about this event but could find nothing on the web.

        May I ask what facts you actually have? If I understand it correctly
        something has happen to the cemetery and you have assumed it was the
        Polish Government/Poles responsibility. This maybe true but without
        proof I have my doubt.

         

        Yes you understand it correctly…..Not posted????  ….. Of course who would say “LOOK WHAT I DID” ?    Who do you think bought the grave?   The casket?   The Stone? ….hint…….. NOT THE GOVERNMENT And if the government was not involved in it’s distruction,

        Why did they allow it to happen?  Where is their protection?

      • Danuta Janina Wójcik
        Witaj the force, Why didn t your relative go to the church or to the gmina or even ask a community member the reason... why?? Pozdrawiam, Danuta ... From:
        Message 3 of 26 , Dec 3, 2008
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          Witaj the force,
           
           
          Why didn't your relative go to the church or to the gmina or even ask a community member the reason...  why??
           
           
          Pozdrawiam,
          Danuta 
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: theforce
          Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 6:07 PM
          Subject: [Poland-speaks-out] Re: Polands Dirty Work

          Witam,
          That is quite the remark, Dear M.
          Poland is known to preserve and respect grave sites. The second finding of Swedish gravesite, happens to be on my 1st cousins - street. I have seen it, there is a wooden cross erected in the farmers field, where the remains are found.

           Well Obviously, They didn’t this time…perhaps because Rusyns were involved. What’s even more outrageous is that it’s in the middle of nothing and across the street from a church. No reason to bull doze!!!

           Praise your government if you like,  to me THEY SUCK!


          Sorry for the lost of your family grave. I had a look for any news
          about this event but could find nothing on the web.

          May I ask what facts you actually have? If I understand it correctly
          something has happen to the cemetery and you have assumed it was the
          Polish Government/Poles responsibility. This maybe true but without
          proof I have my doubt.

          Yes you understand it correctly…..Not posted????  ….. Of course who would say “LOOK WHAT I DID” ?    Who do you think bought the grave?   The casket?   The Stone? ….hint…….. NOT THE GOVERNMENT And if the government was not involved in it’s distruction,

          Why did they allow it to happen?  Where is their protection?

        • Carol Dove
          Hello Danuta and the force,   Would they have a way of knowing it has Russia s buried there? Is it just Russian s? Like we have suggested, I would speak up
          Message 4 of 26 , Dec 3, 2008
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            Hello Danuta and the force,
             
            Would they have a way of knowing it has Russia's buried there? Is it just Russian's? Like we have suggested, I would speak up and ask who and why before condeming all of Poland? 
             
            I am confused as I cannot find more on this, Carol

            --- On Wed, 12/3/08, Danuta Janina Wójcik <sandlily@...> wrote:
            From: Danuta Janina Wójcik <sandlily@...>
            Subject: Re: [Poland-speaks-out] Re: Polands Dirty Work
            To: Poland-speaks-out@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 7:25 PM

            Witaj the force,
             
             
            Why didn't your relative go to the church or to the gmina or even ask a community member the reason...  why??
             
             
            Pozdrawiam,
            Danuta 
             
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: theforce
            Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 6:07 PM
            Subject: [Poland-speaks- out] Re: Polands Dirty Work

            Witam,
            That is quite the remark, Dear M.
            Poland is known to preserve and respect grave sites. The second finding of Swedish gravesite, happens to be on my 1st cousins - street. I have seen it, there is a wooden cross erected in the farmers field, where the remains are found.

             Well Obviously, They didn’t this time…perhaps because Rusyns were involved. What’s even more outrageous is that it’s in the middle of nothing and across the street from a church. No reason to bull doze!!!

             Praise your government if you like,  to me THEY SUCK!


            Sorry for the lost of your family grave. I had a look for any news
            about this event but could find nothing on the web.

            May I ask what facts you actually have? If I understand it correctly
            something has happen to the cemetery and you have assumed it was the
            Polish Government/Poles responsibility. This maybe true but without
            proof I have my doubt.

            Yes you understand it correctly…..Not posted????  ….. Of course who would say “LOOK WHAT I DID” ?    Who do you think bought the grave?   The casket?   The Stone? ….hint…….. NOT THE GOVERNMENT And if the government was not involved in it’s distruction,

            Why did they allow it to happen?  Where is their protection?


          • Danuta Janina Wójcik
            Witaj Carol, I have no idea, you have to ask the force, if it was a Greek Catholic Cemetary or Roman Catholic Cemetary. If he is concerned then he needs to
            Message 5 of 26 , Dec 3, 2008
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              Witaj Carol,
               
              I have no idea, you have to ask the force, if it was a Greek Catholic Cemetary or Roman Catholic Cemetary.  If he is concerned then he needs to find out the details. 
               
              Pozdrawiam,
              Danuta
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 8:08 PM
              Subject: Re: [Poland-speaks-out] Re: Polands Dirty Work

              Hello Danuta and the force,
               
              Would they have a way of knowing it has Russia's buried there? Is it just Russian's? Like we have suggested, I would speak up and ask who and why before condeming all of Poland? 
               
              I am confused as I cannot find more on this, Carol

              --- On Wed, 12/3/08, Danuta Janina Wójcik <sandlily@shaw. ca> wrote:
              From: Danuta Janina Wójcik <sandlily@shaw. ca>
              Subject: Re: [Poland-speaks- out] Re: Polands Dirty Work
              To: Poland-speaks- out@yahoogroups. com
              Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 7:25 PM

              Witaj the force,
               
               
              Why didn't your relative go to the church or to the gmina or even ask a community member the reason...  why??
               
               
              Pozdrawiam,
              Danuta 
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: theforce
              Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 6:07 PM
              Subject: [Poland-speaks- out] Re: Polands Dirty Work

              Witam,
              That is quite the remark, Dear M.
              Poland is known to preserve and respect grave sites. The second finding of Swedish gravesite, happens to be on my 1st cousins - street. I have seen it, there is a wooden cross erected in the farmers field, where the remains are found.

               Well Obviously, They didn’t this time…perhaps because Rusyns were involved. What’s even more outrageous is that it’s in the middle of nothing and across the street from a church. No reason to bull doze!!!

               Praise your government if you like,  to me THEY SUCK!


              Sorry for the lost of your family grave. I had a look for any news
              about this event but could find nothing on the web.

              May I ask what facts you actually have? If I understand it correctly
              something has happen to the cemetery and you have assumed it was the
              Polish Government/Poles responsibility. This maybe true but without
              proof I have my doubt.

              Yes you understand it correctly…..Not posted????  ….. Of course who would say “LOOK WHAT I DID” ?    Who do you think bought the grave?   The casket?   The Stone? ….hint…….. NOT THE GOVERNMENT And if the government was not involved in it’s distruction,

              Why did they allow it to happen?  Where is their protection?


            • Thyme Trax
              Carol is this the place in question This site is also in English i hope... http://www.skarbieclemkowszczyzny.neostrada.pl/02s_historia.htm pozdrawiam Krysia
              Message 6 of 26 , Dec 3, 2008
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                Carol is this the place in question
                This site is also in English i hope...
                pozdrawiam Krysia


                --- On Wed, 12/3/08, Carol Dove <stashaok@...> wrote:
                From: Carol Dove <stashaok@...>
                Subject: Re: [Poland-speaks-out] Re: Polands Dirty Work
                To: Poland-speaks-out@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 6:19 AM

                Has he asked local authority's what took place? I looked and there is nothing in the news. He also can call the news in (or you can). As Jan stated, laws are different in Poland than we have here in the USA. From the photo's I saw "Szlachtowa" is beautiful. I know my Grandfather had to pay for his families graves, he sent checks from here in the USA. Let us know what you do or if someone reports it?
                 
                Thanks, Carol

                --- On Tue, 12/2/08, theforce <Rusyn@roadrunner. com> wrote:
                From: theforce <Rusyn@roadrunner. com>
                Subject: [Poland-speaks- out] Re: Polands Dirty Work
                To: Poland-speaks- out@yahoogroups. com
                Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 6:06 PM

                Link?  No they don’t broadcast news like this. My cousin crossed over the boarder to do some site seeing and

                 Was shocked to see where my family grave site was, was now freshly plowed by a dozer. Szlachtowa S.E. Poland

                M.



              • Danuta Janina Wojcik
                Witam, Here is the site to the Parish http://www.szczawnica.net/mportal/content/view/19/55/1/2/ And the history http://www.jaworki.skpb.lodz.pl/okol_rus.html
                Message 7 of 26 , Dec 3, 2008
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                  Witam,
                   
                   
                   
                  Pozdrawiam
                  Danuta
                   
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:44 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Poland-speaks-out] Re: Polands Dirty Work-Scarbiec Lemkow

                  Carol is this the place in question
                  This site is also in English i hope...
                  pozdrawiam Krysia


                  --- On Wed, 12/3/08, Carol Dove <stashaok@yahoo. com> wrote:
                  From: Carol Dove <stashaok@yahoo. com>
                  Subject: Re: [Poland-speaks- out] Re: Polands Dirty Work
                  To: Poland-speaks- out@yahoogroups. com
                  Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 6:19 AM

                  Has he asked local authority's what took place? I looked and there is nothing in the news. He also can call the news in (or you can). As Jan stated, laws are different in Poland than we have here in the USA. From the photo's I saw "Szlachtowa" is beautiful. I know my Grandfather had to pay for his families graves, he sent checks from here in the USA. Let us know what you do or if someone reports it?
                   
                  Thanks, Carol

                  --- On Tue, 12/2/08, theforce <Rusyn@roadrunner. com> wrote:
                  From: theforce <Rusyn@roadrunner. com>
                  Subject: [Poland-speaks- out] Re: Polands Dirty Work
                  To: Poland-speaks- out@yahoogroups. com
                  Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 6:06 PM

                  Link?  No they don’t broadcast news like this. My cousin crossed over the boarder to do some site seeing and

                   Was shocked to see where my family grave site was, was now freshly plowed by a dozer. Szlachtowa S.E. Poland

                  M.



                • Carol Dove
                  The Force,   Is this the people you speak of?   Lemko people, called Rusini or Rusnaki belong to The Eastern Slav, I have a great site on the Lemko s.
                  Message 8 of 26 , Dec 4, 2008
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                    The Force,
                     
                    Is this the people you speak of?
                     
                    "Lemko" people, called 'Rusini'or 'Rusnaki' belong to The Eastern Slav, I have a great site on the "Lemko's.
                     
                    Thanks, Carol

                    --- On Wed, 12/3/08, Danuta Janina Wojcik <sandlily@...> wrote:
                    From: Danuta Janina Wojcik <sandlily@...>
                    Subject: Re: [Poland-speaks-out] Re: Polands Dirty Work-Scarbiec Lemkow
                    To: Poland-speaks-out@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 11:30 PM

                    Witam,
                     
                     
                     
                    Pozdrawiam
                    Danuta
                     
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:44 PM
                    Subject: Re: [Poland-speaks- out] Re: Polands Dirty Work-Scarbiec Lemkow

                    Carol is this the place in question
                    This site is also in English i hope...
                    pozdrawiam Krysia


                    --- On Wed, 12/3/08, Carol Dove <stashaok@yahoo. com> wrote:
                    From: Carol Dove <stashaok@yahoo. com>
                    Subject: Re: [Poland-speaks- out] Re: Polands Dirty Work
                    To: Poland-speaks- out@yahoogroups. com
                    Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 6:19 AM

                    M.

                    Has he asked local authority's what took place? I looked and there is nothing in the news. He also can call the news in (or you can). As Jan stated, laws are different in Poland than we have here in the USA. From the photo's I saw "Szlachtowa" is beautiful. I know my Grandfather had to pay for his families graves, he sent checks from here in the USA. Let us know what you do or if someone reports it?
                     
                    Thanks, Carol

                    --- On Tue, 12/2/08, theforce <Rusyn@roadrunner. com> wrote:
                    From: theforce <Rusyn@roadrunner. com>
                    Subject: [Poland-speaks- out] Re: Polands Dirty Work
                    To: Poland-speaks- out@yahoogroups. com
                    Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 6:06 PM

                    Link?  No they don’t broadcast news like this. My cousin crossed over the boarder to do some site seeing and

                     Was shocked to see where my family grave site was, was now freshly plowed by a dozer. Szlachtowa S.E. Poland




                  • theforce
                    Hello Danuta and the force, Would they have a way of knowing it has Russia s buried there? Is it just Russian s? Like we have suggested, I would speak up and
                    Message 9 of 26 , Dec 4, 2008
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                      Hello Danuta and the force,
                       
                      Would they have a way of knowing it has Russia 's buried there? Is it just Russian's? Like we have suggested, I would speak up and ask who and why before condeming all of Poland ? 

                       

                      Sure they would know! The stones are (were) written in Cyrillic !!

                       And who else could possibly be responsible? The government !    either because they did it, or, because they allowed it to happen, either way it’s sacrilege.

                      M.

                       

                    • Carol Dove
                      Hey M,   Did you call or send the message to have someone call? It may not be to late. Reguardless of who it was they are humans. Someones, mother, father,
                      Message 10 of 26 , Dec 4, 2008
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                        Hey M,
                         
                        Did you call or send the message to have someone call? It may not be to late. Reguardless of who it was they are humans. Someones, mother, father, daughter, son...
                         
                        Carol

                        --- On Thu, 12/4/08, theforce <Rusyn@...> wrote:
                        From: theforce <Rusyn@...>
                        Subject: [Poland-speaks-out] Re: Polands Dirty Work
                        To: Poland-speaks-out@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 7:12 PM

                        Hello Danuta and the force,
                         
                        Would they have a way of knowing it has Russia 's buried there? Is it just Russian's? Like we have suggested, I would speak up and ask who and why before condeming all of Poland ? 

                         

                        Sure they would know! The stones are (were) written in Cyrillic !!

                         And who else could possibly be responsible? The government !    either because they did it, or, because they allowed it to happen, either way it’s sacrilege.

                        M.

                         


                      • theforce
                        It is too late, it s all gone bulldozed under.. What will they say if they called? OOP s sorry ? Poland has done nothing to repair it s mistreatment of
                        Message 11 of 26 , Dec 5, 2008
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                          It is too late, it’s all gone  bulldozed under…… What will they say if they called?   “OOP’s  sorry” ?

                          Poland has done nothing to repair it’s mistreatment of our people.

                          M.

                           

                           

                           

                           

                          Hey M,
                           
                          Did you call or send the message to have someone call? It may not be to late. Reguardless of who it was they are humans. Someones, mother, father, daughter, son...
                           
                          Carol

                        • Paul Havers
                          OK looks like theforce has an issue with Poland in general and the Government, I suggest that he does something about it instead of raving about how he and his
                          Message 12 of 26 , Dec 6, 2008
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                            OK looks like theforce has an issue with Poland in general and the
                            Government, I suggest that he does something about it instead of raving
                            about how he and his family/people have been harmed. We all have
                            suffered in some ways and manage to contain this instead of venting it
                            out on a user group. The information needs to be checked as I'd
                            mentioned in earlier email as t a notice do remove the remains is given.

                            So please no more 'They did it' 'Look what Poland has done' mails untill
                            all the facts have ben substantiated, I joined this group to exchange
                            meaningful information and not to have unchecked information thrown at
                            me and whan capital letters are used it insinuates a very angry tone.

                            Paul

                            theforce wrote:
                            >
                            > Witam,
                            > That is quite the remark, Dear M.
                            > Poland is known to preserve and respect grave sites. The second
                            > finding of Swedish gravesite, happens to be on my 1st cousins -
                            > street. I have seen it, there is a wooden cross erected in the farmers
                            > field, where the remains are found.
                            >
                            > *Well Obviously, They didn’t this time…perhaps because Rusyns were
                            > involved. What’s even more outrageous is that it’s in the middle of
                            > nothing and across the street from a church. No reason to bull doze!!!*
                            >
                            > * Praise your government if you like, to me THEY SUCK!*
                            >
                            > * *
                            >
                            >
                            > Sorry for the lost of your family grave. I had a look for any news
                            > about this event but could find nothing on the web.
                            >
                            > May I ask what facts you actually have? If I understand it correctly
                            > something has happen to the cemetery and you have assumed it was the
                            > Polish Government/Poles responsibility. This maybe true but without
                            > proof I have my doubt.
                            >
                            > *Yes you understand it correctly…..Not posted???? ….. Of course who
                            > would say “LOOK WHAT I DID” ? Who do you think bought the grave? The
                            > casket? The Stone? ….hint…….. NOT THE GOVERNMENT And if the government
                            > was not involved in it’s distruction, *
                            >
                            > *Why did they allow it to happen? Where is their protection?***
                            >
                            >
                          • theforce
                            When your house and land is taken, and you are forced to move, and then someone goes and bull dozes your family graves and wipes out your existence, Then
                            Message 13 of 26 , Dec 6, 2008
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                              When your house and land is taken, and you are forced to move, and then “someone” goes and bull dozes  your family graves and wipes out your existence, Then some cumquat tells you “you shouldn’t rave” and “you have issues” You can bet they are connected. No you won’t hear anymore about it from me here, I can only hope you are treated as well. Good Luck to you Pole!

                               

                               

                               

                               

                              Posted by: "Paul Havers" haverp@...   haverp

                              Sat Dec 6, 2008 1:12 am (PST)

                              OK looks like theforce has an issue with Poland in general and the
                              Government, I suggest that he does something about it instead of raving
                              about how he and his family/people have been harmed.

                               

                            • Paul Havers
                              Listen sunshine if you were told to move at the current time as it seems that you are stating that is what has happened I would be very sceptical of the truth.
                              Message 14 of 26 , Dec 6, 2008
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                                Listen sunshine if you were told to move at the current time as it seems
                                that you are stating that is what has happened I would be very sceptical
                                of the truth. As for loosing everything don't think that you have been
                                singled out, my mother came to the UK after the end of WW2 as the land
                                that she and all my ancestors have lived on was taken from her forcibly
                                by Ukrainians and she had 2 choices one was to get out fast and the
                                other to stay and die. Lots of my ancestors graves have been buldozed by
                                the Ukrainians and the house where my mum grew up was destroyed by the
                                same after they wwere forced out. So don't try to partonise me with your
                                sob stories as I do know what was going on and how things were done to
                                move people from a country that they grew up in and lived. This was done
                                forcibly so take care how you aproach your emails to me, FYI I'm British
                                of half Polish parentage.



                                theforce wrote:
                                >
                                > *When your house and land is taken, and you are forced to move, and
                                > then “someone” goes and bull dozes your family graves and wipes out
                                > your existence, Then some cumquat tells you “you shouldn’t rave” and
                                > “you have issues” You can bet they are connected. No you won’t hear
                                > anymore about it from me here, I can only hope you are treated as
                                > well. Good Luck to you Pole!*
                                >
                                > * *
                                >
                                > * *
                                >
                                > * *
                                >
                                > * *
                                >
                                > *Posted by: "Paul Havers" haverp@...
                                > <mailto:haverp@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Polands%20Dirty%20Work>
                                > haverp <http://profiles.yahoo.com/haverp>*
                                >
                                > *Sat Dec 6, 2008 1:12 am (PST) *
                                >
                                > OK looks like theforce has an issue with Poland in general and the
                                > Government, I suggest that he does something about it instead of raving
                                > about how he and his family/people have been harmed.
                                >
                                >
                              • Danuta Janina Wójcik
                                Witam the force, We have all told you to be proactive and make the inquiries. I have given you enough information for a start. Remember, regardless of your
                                Message 15 of 26 , Dec 6, 2008
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                                  Witam the force,

                                  We have all told you to be proactive and make the inquiries. I have given
                                  you enough information for a start. Remember, regardless of your ancestors
                                  ethnicity, they were Poles from Szlachtowa and they passed on to greener
                                  pastures, as being Polish citizens and you can't change that.

                                  Pozdrawiam,
                                  Danuta

                                  -- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Paul Havers" <haverp@...>
                                  To: <Poland-speaks-out@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 3:04 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [Poland-speaks-out] Re: Polands Dirty Work


                                  > Listen sunshine if you were told to move at the current time as it seems
                                  > that you are stating that is what has happened I would be very sceptical
                                  > of the truth. As for loosing everything don't think that you have been
                                  > singled out, my mother came to the UK after the end of WW2 as the land
                                  > that she and all my ancestors have lived on was taken from her forcibly
                                  > by Ukrainians and she had 2 choices one was to get out fast and the
                                  > other to stay and die. Lots of my ancestors graves have been buldozed by
                                  > the Ukrainians and the house where my mum grew up was destroyed by the
                                  > same after they wwere forced out. So don't try to partonise me with your
                                  > sob stories as I do know what was going on and how things were done to
                                  > move people from a country that they grew up in and lived. This was done
                                  > forcibly so take care how you aproach your emails to me, FYI I'm British
                                  > of half Polish parentage.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > theforce wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >> *When your house and land is taken, and you are forced to move, and
                                  >> then “someone” goes and bull dozes your family graves and wipes out
                                  >> your existence, Then some cumquat tells you “you shouldn’t rave” and
                                  >> “you have issues” You can bet they are connected. No you won’t hear
                                  >> anymore about it from me here, I can only hope you are treated as
                                  >> well. Good Luck to you Pole!*
                                  >>
                                  >> * *
                                  >>
                                  >> * *
                                  >>
                                  >> * *
                                  >>
                                  >> * *
                                  >>
                                  >> *Posted by: "Paul Havers" haverp@...
                                  >> <mailto:haverp@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Polands%20Dirty%20Work>
                                  >> haverp <http://profiles.yahoo.com/haverp>*
                                  >>
                                  >> *Sat Dec 6, 2008 1:12 am (PST) *
                                  >>
                                  >> OK looks like theforce has an issue with Poland in general and the
                                  >> Government, I suggest that he does something about it instead of raving
                                  >> about how he and his family/people have been harmed.
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Paul Havers
                                  Please unsubscribe me from this group. I didn t join to get abuse from people who jump into conclusions, don t do their research correctly, have no idea as to
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Dec 9, 2008
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                                    Please unsubscribe me from this group. I didn't join to get abuse from
                                    people who jump into conclusions, don't do their research correctly,
                                    have no idea as to what actually happened and when recommendations and
                                    advice is given they persist in sending abusive emails to my private
                                    address.

                                    I will be setting junk filters to delete all emails from those concerned.

                                    Paul



                                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                    Eastern Borderlands of the 2nd Polish Republic 1919 - 1945
                                    Maps, Descriptions of Towns and much more. www.kresy.co.uk
                                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                  • Carol Dove
                                    Paul,   I am sorry and was not aware of his private emails. I would rather have the one doing the offending leave than to have a member that I value.  
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Dec 9, 2008
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                                      Paul,
                                       
                                      I am sorry and was not aware of his private emails. I would rather have the one doing the offending leave than to have a member that I value.
                                       
                                      Please let me know if this would help, Carol

                                      --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Paul Havers <haverp@...> wrote:
                                      From: Paul Havers <haverp@...>
                                      Subject: [Poland-speaks-out] Unsubscribe
                                      To: Poland-speaks-out@yahoogroups.com
                                      Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 12:36 AM

                                      Please unsubscribe me from this group. I didn't join to get abuse from 
                                      people who jump into conclusions, don't do their research correctly, 
                                      have no idea as to what actually happened and when recommendations and 
                                      advice is given they persist in sending abusive emails to my private 
                                      address.
                                      
                                      I will be setting junk filters to delete all emails from those concerned.
                                      
                                      Paul
                                      
                                      
                                      
                                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
                                      Eastern Borderlands of the 2nd Polish Republic 1919 - 1945
                                      Maps, Descriptions of Towns and much more. www.kresy.co.uk 
                                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                      
                                      
                                      ------------------------------------
                                      
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                                    • Carol
                                      M and Group, It saddens me to see a PSO member send a message like the one I recieved from Paul. I value his membership and no one has the right to send
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Dec 10, 2008
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                                        M and Group,

                                        It saddens me to see a PSO member send a message like the one I
                                        recieved from Paul. I value his membership and no one has the right
                                        to send private emails because they posted a response. On behalf of
                                        PSO I'm sorry this happened and I do hope you reconsider?

                                        I do not want anyone to feel they can come here and trash Polish, we
                                        have seen to much of this. I did give M the benifit of dought asking
                                        for proof. This does not open the door to send abusive emails. I
                                        believe you owe Paul an apology.

                                        This should be a safe place for Polish to speak out.

                                        Carol



                                        --- In Poland-speaks-out@yahoogroups.com, "theforce" <Rusyn@...>
                                        wrote:
                                        >
                                        > When your house and land is taken, and you are forced to move, and
                                        then
                                        > "someone" goes and bull dozes your family graves and wipes out your
                                        > existence, Then some cumquat tells you "you shouldn't rave"
                                        and "you have
                                        > issues" You can bet they are connected. No you won't hear anymore
                                        about it
                                        > from me here, I can only hope you are treated as well. Good Luck to
                                        you
                                        > Pole!
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Posted by: "Paul Havers"
                                        > <mailto:haverp@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Polands%20Dirty%20Work>
                                        > haverp@... <http://profiles.yahoo.com/haverp> haverp
                                        >
                                        > Sat Dec 6, 2008 1:12 am (PST)
                                        >
                                        > OK looks like theforce has an issue with Poland in general and the
                                        > Government, I suggest that he does something about it instead of
                                        raving
                                        > about how he and his family/people have been harmed.
                                        >
                                      • theforce
                                        Dear Carol & Others, You can welcome Paul back in and I will happily take the fall, Unsubscribe me, People who want to protect the actions of a government
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Dec 10, 2008
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                                          Dear Carol & Others,

                                             You can welcome Paul back in and I will happily take the fall, Unsubscribe me,  People who want to protect the actions of a government bent on evil toward any minority I want no part of. I attacked the government Paul attacked me, then I retaliated,  there is a distinct difference!.  I see that you draw the line at who can speak out and about what. Enjoy yourselves.

                                          M.

                                           

                                           

                                        • Paul Havers
                                          M This will be my last message to you so please do read it and try to understand. When did I attack you, all I did was to offer some helpful advice and asked
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Dec 12, 2008
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                                            M
                                            This will be my last message to you so please do read it and try to
                                            understand.
                                            When did I attack you, all I did was to offer some helpful advice and
                                            asked you to make sure that you had your facts straight and provide some
                                            sort of proof of the said deed. You to date have not provided any proof
                                            of this and when I informed you of how the Polish Government works you
                                            accuse me of protecting it. This seems a bit silly as I'm British and
                                            live in the UK so how can I protect the Polish Government. Other members
                                            offered you advice and you chose to ignore it or at least it seems that
                                            way. Please don't take this as a 'dig' but I have noticed that
                                            Russians/Russyns or now Ukrainians always seem to class themselves as
                                            victims of Poland and have forgotten their manners. I had family that
                                            lived in the Old Kresy areas and do have first hand knowledge of what
                                            went on there, this was passed on to me by my ancestors and there are a
                                            number of books on the subject. I also run a site dedicated to the
                                            regions which has received a great deal of publicity for publishing
                                            actual facts on the area and it was published in the Polish Press, so as
                                            you can see I do know what I'm talking about.

                                            Please do your research and have proof before you make accusations
                                            against any one or any nation as not having researched or had proof you
                                            make yourself look like a fool and no serious minded researcher will
                                            talk to you.

                                            Paul

                                            theforce wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Dear Carol & Others,
                                            >
                                            > You can welcome Paul back in and I will happily take the fall,
                                            > Unsubscribe me, People who want to protect the actions of a
                                            > government bent on evil toward any minority I want no part of. I
                                            > attacked the government Paul attacked me, then I retaliated, there is
                                            > a distinct difference!. I see that you draw the line at who can speak
                                            > out and about what. Enjoy yourselves.
                                            >
                                            > M.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >

                                            --


                                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                            Eastern Borderlands of the 2nd Polish Republic 1919 - 1945
                                            Maps, Descriptions of Towns and much more. www.kresy.co.uk
                                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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