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Re: From Linder

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  • Carol
    Hey Linder, Ok so you are saying that Ukrainian s are Polish? Having to lie about your country is nothing short of crazy. No Linder I am not saying you are
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 12, 2008
      Hey Linder,

      Ok so you are saying that Ukrainian's are Polish? Having to lie about
      your country is nothing short of crazy. No Linder I am not saying you
      are crazy, I am saying the way our Polish families that went back
      to "occupied Poland/Ukraine) have been forced to lie is.

      I recall reading a story of a Polish lady going back to where her
      home was after amnesty and the ones that were not sent to Siberia,
      made fun of her beyond belief.

      Carol


      --- In Poland-speaks-out@yahoogroups.com, "Linder Ladbrooke"
      <ladbrooke@...> wrote:
      >
      > Danuta,
      >
      > Have you ACTUSLLY got relatives that are now Ukranian? The ones
      that were
      > born in Poland, taken over by the Russians and had to become
      Russian or get
      > shot/deported? Then later, had to become Ukranian??? Or is this
      sweeping
      > statement out of a book?? I HAVE!!!!! Even so, they still think of
      > themselves as 'truley Polish' but had to hide it for so long. I
      shall
      > forgive your lack of REAL knowledge this time.
      >
      > If you wish to reply in an 'unkind tone' please do it by private
      email,
      > which is 'ladbrooke@...'. I do not 'perform' slanging-matches for
      > all to see on the open internet, and I do not usually bother to
      reply to
      > such ignorance.
      >
      > Linder
      >
    • Danuta Janina Wójcik
      Witaj Linder, I appreciate your message to me. And yes, I have had relatives that were forced to take Soviet Russian citizenship and then Ukrainian
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 12, 2008
        Witaj Linder,
         
        I appreciate your message to me.  And yes, I have had relatives that were forced to take Soviet Russian citizenship and then Ukrainian citizenship? And yes, I have a family that I visit in Ukraine, that were at one time, true Polish citizens. And yes, I have family that has resided in the immediate area of the yellow and blue attempted take over in 1940. 
         
        Soviet Citizenship changed over after WWII and Ukraine citizenship was implemented, when Ukraine became a State in 1991. 
         
        In my opinion, whatever the ethnicity of the person, who joined the Ukrainian Nationalist/Nazi Collaborations of WWII should be held responsible, for crimes against humanity. The Ukrainian Nationalists had an agenda, self determination to gain a State, as promised to them by the Nazi General Government.   OUN carried on their rampage, until they released the true nature of the Nazi regime.  Do we excuse them? Absolutely, not.
         
        Linder,  beneficial info, if you still have relatives East of the Curzon Line.  The Pole Card was instituted, as of April 1, 2008.
         
         
        Here is one of the benefits:  The Pole's Card will specify its holder's appurtenance to the Polish nation. The Card, which will have unlimited validity, will be issued free-of-charge by any Polish Consulate General to those who will provide documentary evidence of their Polish roots. Its holder will be able to get a national visa, which gives a right to multiple border crossings, a right to be employed in Poland without a work permit, and access to the education system under the same terms as Polish citizens, as well as to the use of free healthcare services in an emergency and a 37-percent discount on the railways.
         
        Pozdrawiam
        Danuta z Kanady
         
         
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 12:23 PM
        Subject: [Poland-speaks-out] From Linder

        Danuta,

        Have you ACTUSLLY got relatives that are now Ukranian? The ones that were
        born in Poland, taken over by the Russians and had to become Russian or get
        shot/deported? Then later, had to become Ukranian??? Or is this sweeping
        statement out of a book?? I HAVE!!!!! Even so, they still think of
        themselves as 'truley Polish' but had to hide it for so long. I shall
        forgive your lack of REAL knowledge this time.

        If you wish to reply in an 'unkind tone' please do it by private email,
        which is 'ladbrooke@ntlworld .com'. I do not 'perform' slanging-matches for
        all to see on the open internet, and I do not usually bother to reply to
        such ignorance.

        Linder

      • Linder Ladbrooke
        No Carole, The bit of western Ukraine, that WAS Poland [Lwow and a bit more east of it] in 1939, was taken over by the Russians in 1939-1940. Those folk s had
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 12, 2008
          No Carole,
           
          The bit of western Ukraine, that WAS Poland [Lwow and a bit more east of it] in 1939, was taken over by the Russians in 1939-1940. Those folk's had 2 choices, well, the young fella's anyway. get shot/join the Ru Army/be deported to Siberia. These are peasants I'm talking about, not 'politcal/important' folk's. That way, their families could stay on the land they'd had for 100's of years, to grow food for the Russians.But, the ones that joined the Ru Army had to 'swear aligiance' and take on the RU  thinking [or pretend to]. Say anything  to stay alive, as the 5 prisions in Lwow were very dangerous places. The Nazi's were on there way to Lwow, so, Ru's slaughtered hundreds, old/sick/disabled - hide evidence of murders/torture/make locals clean, hide bodiies, absolute chaos there. All the fit/able, stuck on trains to Krasnoyarsk, near Mongolia [Asia, Russia] then to a Ru Army Training Section, then, when trained, as 'front-line' fodder for Ru Army. Still loving their homeland of Poland, but keeping it a secret to stay alive. From there on, do as the Ru Army said to stay alive and hopefully, keep your family alive. Many 'jumped-up' charges in the first place to even get you  into Lwow prison! [this is what I'm looking for at te moment]. When you get chance, you escape from that lot and go looking for the formation of the Polish Army some 2000? miles away in Buzuluk area. No release papers from Stalin, on the 'run' . Join Polish Army for safety. 
           
          This is the 'western-side' of Ukr. I think, perhaps the 'eastern-side' of Ukr had it differently! I honstely don't know, never had reason to look intoo it.  But, sweeping statements, about ALL of Ukr don't go down too well with me!!.  
           
          M-IN-LAW just arrived, need to play the 'good d-in-law' now - gotta go!
           
          Your mate
          Linder [no time for sp-check!]
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Poland-speaks-out@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Poland-speaks-out@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Carol
          Sent: 12 July 2008 18:52
          To: Poland-speaks-out@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Poland-speaks-out] Re: From Linder

          Hey Linder,

          Ok so you are saying that Ukrainian's are Polish? Having to lie about
          your country is nothing short of crazy. No Linder I am not saying you
          are crazy, I am saying the way our Polish families that went back
          to "occupied Poland/Ukraine) have been forced to lie is.

          I recall reading a story of a Polish lady going back to where her
          home was after amnesty and the ones that were not sent to Siberia,
          made fun of her beyond belief.

          Carol

          --- In Poland-speaks- out@yahoogroups. com, "Linder Ladbrooke"
          <ladbrooke@. ..> wrote:
          >
          > Danuta,
          >
          > Have you ACTUSLLY got relatives that are now Ukranian? The ones
          that were
          > born in Poland, taken over by the Russians and had to become
          Russian or get
          > shot/deported? Then later, had to become Ukranian??? Or is this
          sweeping
          > statement out of a book?? I HAVE!!!!! Even so, they still think of
          > themselves as 'truley Polish' but had to hide it for so long. I
          shall
          > forgive your lack of REAL knowledge this time.
          >
          > If you wish to reply in an 'unkind tone' please do it by private
          email,
          > which is 'ladbrooke@. ..'. I do not 'perform' slanging-matches for
          > all to see on the open internet, and I do not usually bother to
          reply to
          > such ignorance.
          >
          > Linder
          >

        • Linder Ladbrooke
          Danuta, Perhaps it would be a good idea, from now on, if you clarified which group of people you were talking about, in your postings! Not ALL Ukranians were
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 13, 2008
            Danuta,
             
            Perhaps it would be  a good idea, from now on, if you clarified which group of people you were talking about, in your postings! Not ALL Ukranians were bad, as in any other country at war. I know all about the 'Polish Card' and it's helpful if you still have you original papers from before the war. If they weren't distroyed  by the NKVD or later the KGB.
             
            Please apprecite that I have much important work to do for my village in Ukraine [I send computers/school books/clothing parcels etc], so, from now on I will end this discussion. Thank you gor you views, although a little 'narrow'
             
            Linder
             
             
             -----Original Message-----
            From: Poland-speaks-out@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Poland-speaks-out@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Danuta Janina Wójcik
            Sent: 12 July 2008 19:43
            To: Poland-speaks-out@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [Poland-speaks-out] From Linder

            Witaj Linder,
             
            I appreciate your message to me.  And yes, I have had relatives that were forced to take Soviet Russian citizenship and then Ukrainian citizenship? And yes, I have a family that I visit in Ukraine, that were at one time, true Polish citizens. And yes, I have family that has resided in the immediate area of the yellow and blue attempted take over in 1940. 
             
            Soviet Citizenship changed over after WWII and Ukraine citizenship was implemented, when Ukraine became a State in 1991. 
             
            In my opinion, whatever the ethnicity of the person, who joined the Ukrainian Nationalist/ Nazi Collaborations of WWII should be held responsible, for crimes against humanity. The Ukrainian Nationalists had an agenda, self determination to gain a State, as promised to them by the Nazi General Government.   OUN carried on their rampage, until they released the true nature of the Nazi regime.  Do we excuse them? Absolutely, not.
             
            Linder,  beneficial info, if you still have relatives East of the Curzon Line.  The Pole Card was instituted, as of April 1, 2008.
             
             
            Here is one of the benefits:  The Pole's Card will specify its holder's appurtenance to the Polish nation. The Card, which will have unlimited validity, will be issued free-of-charge by any Polish Consulate General to those who will provide documentary evidence of their Polish roots. Its holder will be able to get a national visa, which gives a right to multiple border crossings, a right to be employed in Poland without a work permit, and access to the education system under the same terms as Polish citizens, as well as to the use of free healthcare services in an emergency and a 37-percent discount on the railways.
             
            Pozdrawiam
            Danuta z Kanady
             
             
             
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 12:23 PM
            Subject: [Poland-speaks- out] From Linder

            Danuta,

            Have you ACTUSLLY got relatives that are now Ukranian? The ones that were
            born in Poland, taken over by the Russians and had to become Russian or get
            shot/deported? Then later, had to become Ukranian??? Or is this sweeping
            statement out of a book?? I HAVE!!!!! Even so, they still think of
            themselves as 'truley Polish' but had to hide it for so long. I shall
            forgive your lack of REAL knowledge this time.

            If you wish to reply in an 'unkind tone' please do it by private email,
            which is 'ladbrooke@ntlworld .com'. I do not 'perform' slanging-matches for
            all to see on the open internet, and I do not usually bother to reply to
            such ignorance.

            Linder

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