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Re: PCN local custom-built frame

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  • Resty Refuerzo
    thanks for your reply, ramil, it s good to know that steel is alive and well. thought everyone was into aluminum frames for their lightness. i myself is still
    Message 1 of 25 , Jun 30, 2005
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      thanks for your reply, ramil, it's good to know that steel is alive and well. thought everyone was into aluminum frames for their lightness. i myself is still using a frame made of tange no. 2 and which was made by ranada in 1995. should you decide to have one made, just make sure ave gets all the alignment right. think that is the weak point of local frame builders, esp. the wheel dropouts. safe cycling to you -resty

      Ramil Ramos <ramil_ramos@...> wrote:Bro,

      I called him and he gave estimates for road frame only (no fork/ no
      paint): using Columbus tubing - around 4T,
      using Prestige tubing - around 8T (less weight).
      Wala sya carved lugs, puro standard lang. I like to get a Prestige
      tubing with carved lugs sana (para artistic and personalized todo-todo
      na). You can specify head angle and seat angle... WOW! Pwede ka
      palang magpagaya ng frame style but with your size talaga. 2 weeks work.

      I think tumaas na charges nya dahil sabi sa kin noon sa Cartimar,
      around 3,500 with paint na daw. Pero considering a custom-built
      frame, mas mura na ito than having it done elsewhere abroad. Support
      Pinoy kasi ako e. I'm also thinking of putting a sticker with words
      like 'Meldea custom-built bike' e, baka makadiscount pa ako hehehe.

      Ramil

      --- In PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com, yonip_rekib
      <yonip_rekib@y...> wrote:
      > bro,
      >
      > magkano pagawa ng frame sa kaniya?
      >
      > Resty Refuerzo <restyrefuerzo@y...> wrote:
      > hi ramil,
      >
      > should you go ahead and have a frame made, i wonder what tubes
      you'll use? or lugs?
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Philippine Cycling Network
      > (Always smile or wave at a fellow cyclist. Tayo-tayo na nga lang ito
      kaya't huwag maging snob! :))
      >
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
      >
      >
      > Visit your group "PhilippineCyclingNetwork" on the web.
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > PhilippineCyclingNetwork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
      Service.
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      >
      >
      >
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    • King Bernas
      steel is real, as they say. my road bike is also built on a locally made chromo frame. i got it second hand from ress bautista (who has now upgraded to second
      Message 2 of 25 , Jul 1 1:41 AM
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        steel is real, as they say. my road bike is also built on a locally
        made chromo frame. i got it second hand from ress bautista (who has
        now upgraded to second hand italian steel :)

        para sa akin, aesthetically, mas ok talaga ang classic geometry and
        thin tubes. the ride is also more comfortable then aluminum.
        frankly, i'm also not that strong a rider to benefit from the
        stiffness of aluminum frames anyway :)

        --- In PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com, Resty Refuerzo
        <restyrefuerzo@y...> wrote:
        > thanks for your reply, ramil, it's good to know that steel is
        alive and well. thought everyone was into aluminum frames for their
        lightness. i myself is still using a frame made of tange no. 2 and
        which was made by ranada in 1995. should you decide to have one
        made, just make sure ave gets all the alignment right. think that is
        the weak point of local frame builders, esp. the wheel dropouts.
        safe cycling to you -resty
        >
        > Ramil Ramos <ramil_ramos@y...> wrote:Bro,
        >
        > I called him and he gave estimates for road frame only (no fork/ no
        > paint): using Columbus tubing - around 4T,
        > using Prestige tubing - around 8T (less weight).
        > Wala sya carved lugs, puro standard lang. I like to get a Prestige
        > tubing with carved lugs sana (para artistic and personalized todo-
        todo
        > na). You can specify head angle and seat angle... WOW! Pwede ka
        > palang magpagaya ng frame style but with your size talaga. 2
        weeks work.
        >
        > I think tumaas na charges nya dahil sabi sa kin noon sa Cartimar,
        > around 3,500 with paint na daw. Pero considering a custom-built
        > frame, mas mura na ito than having it done elsewhere abroad.
        Support
        > Pinoy kasi ako e. I'm also thinking of putting a sticker with
        words
        > like 'Meldea custom-built bike' e, baka makadiscount pa ako
        hehehe.
        >
        > Ramil
        >
        > --- In PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com, yonip_rekib
        > <yonip_rekib@y...> wrote:
        > > bro,
        > >
        > > magkano pagawa ng frame sa kaniya?
        > >
        > > Resty Refuerzo <restyrefuerzo@y...> wrote:
        > > hi ramil,
        > >
        > > should you go ahead and have a frame made, i wonder what tubes
        > you'll use? or lugs?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Philippine Cycling Network
        > > (Always smile or wave at a fellow cyclist. Tayo-tayo na nga lang
        ito
        > kaya't huwag maging snob! :))
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ---------------------------------
        > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        > >
        > >
        > > Visit your group "PhilippineCyclingNetwork" on the web.
        > >
        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > > PhilippineCyclingNetwork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        > Service.
        > >
        > >
        > > ---------------------------------
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > __________________________________________________
        > > Do You Yahoo!?
        > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > > http://mail.yahoo.com
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Philippine Cycling Network
        > (Always smile or wave at a fellow cyclist. Tayo-tayo na nga lang
        ito kaya't huwag maging snob! :))
        >
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        >
        >
        > Visit your group "PhilippineCyclingNetwork" on the web.
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > PhilippineCyclingNetwork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        Service.
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Eduard
        That is the nice part about the work of Ave. HE uses a jig to make sure everything is straight and accurate. Imported jig yon from the US and I believe siya
        Message 3 of 25 , Jul 1 1:54 AM
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          That is the nice part about the work of Ave. HE uses a jig to make sure
          everything is straight and accurate. Imported jig yon from the US and I
          believe siya lang meron ditto sa Pinas

          Eduard



          _____

          From: PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Resty
          Refuerzo
          Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 1:30 PM
          To: PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: PCN local custom-built frame



          thanks for your reply, ramil, it's good to know that steel is alive and
          well. thought everyone was into aluminum frames for their lightness. i
          myself is still using a frame made of tange no. 2 and which was made by
          ranada in 1995. should you decide to have one made, just make sure ave gets
          all the alignment right. think that is the weak point of local frame
          builders, esp. the wheel dropouts. safe cycling to you -resty

          Ramil Ramos <ramil_ramos@...> wrote:Bro,

          I called him and he gave estimates for road frame only (no fork/ no
          paint): using Columbus tubing - around 4T,
          using Prestige tubing - around 8T (less weight).
          Wala sya carved lugs, puro standard lang. I like to get a Prestige
          tubing with carved lugs sana (para artistic and personalized todo-todo
          na). You can specify head angle and seat angle... WOW! Pwede ka
          palang magpagaya ng frame style but with your size talaga. 2 weeks work.

          I think tumaas na charges nya dahil sabi sa kin noon sa Cartimar,
          around 3,500 with paint na daw. Pero considering a custom-built
          frame, mas mura na ito than having it done elsewhere abroad. Support
          Pinoy kasi ako e. I'm also thinking of putting a sticker with words
          like 'Meldea custom-built bike' e, baka makadiscount pa ako hehehe.

          Ramil

          --- In PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com, yonip_rekib
          <yonip_rekib@y...> wrote:
          > bro,
          >
          > magkano pagawa ng frame sa kaniya?
          >
          > Resty Refuerzo <restyrefuerzo@y...> wrote:
          > hi ramil,
          >
          > should you go ahead and have a frame made, i wonder what tubes
          you'll use? or lugs?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Philippine Cycling Network
          > (Always smile or wave at a fellow cyclist. Tayo-tayo na nga lang ito
          kaya't huwag maging snob! :))
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
          >
          >
          > Visit your group "PhilippineCyclingNetwork" on the web.
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > PhilippineCyclingNetwork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service.
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________________________
          > Do You Yahoo!?
          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          > http://mail.yahoo.com
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






          Philippine Cycling Network
          (Always smile or wave at a fellow cyclist. Tayo-tayo na nga lang ito kaya't
          huwag maging snob! :))



          ---------------------------------
          YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


          Visit your group "PhilippineCyclingNetwork" on the web.

          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          PhilippineCyclingNetwork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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          ---------------------------------





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          Philippine Cycling Network
          (Always smile or wave at a fellow cyclist. Tayo-tayo na nga lang ito kaya't
          huwag maging snob! :))




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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ricardo Ledesma
          Steel is good, I went thru about six frames built by Rey Delay, whom Ave learned from in the mid 80 s. In fact, I used to see Ave cutting the tubes for Rey as
          Message 4 of 25 , Jul 1 3:41 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            Steel is good, I went thru about six frames built by Rey Delay, whom Ave
            learned from in the mid 80's. In fact, I used to see Ave cutting the tubes
            for Rey as an apprentice and file all the welds to a fillet brazed finish.
            Rey always did the welds. There is one thing, "knowledge" in building frames
            very important. It is good that you can have a custom made frame, but what
            specs do you follow? Unless you know very well the proper length of top,
            head and seat tube that will make you ride properly. Does your builder know
            the right lengths?

            I kept a record of all the frames I have come to own thru the years. Its
            funny cause when I look at the frames specs that Rey built for me, all of
            them were too long. But I was just starting out so I didn't know. For my
            height I now ride 51-52 top tubes and he always built me 54's! Kaya pala
            masakit yung likod ko parati. Custom frame builders abroad know proper
            proportion sa when you go custom, balanced ang build for your height. If you
            do not know the proper tubes and your builder is not to knowledgable, you
            will still end up with an ill fitting frame.

            Try these sites to have an idea of your range so you will know when going to
            your builder:

            http://www.esp-ergomotion.com/

            http://www.coloradocyclist.com/bikefit/

            http://www.wrenchscience.com/WS1/default.asp

            http://www.tiemeyercycles.com/fit.htm

            Rickyled



            _____

            From: PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of King Bernas
            Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 4:42 PM
            To: PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: PCN local custom-built frame



            steel is real, as they say. my road bike is also built on a locally
            made chromo frame. i got it second hand from ress bautista (who has
            now upgraded to second hand italian steel :)

            para sa akin, aesthetically, mas ok talaga ang classic geometry and
            thin tubes. the ride is also more comfortable then aluminum.
            frankly, i'm also not that strong a rider to benefit from the
            stiffness of aluminum frames anyway :)

            --- In PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com, Resty Refuerzo
            <restyrefuerzo@y...> wrote:
            > thanks for your reply, ramil, it's good to know that steel is
            alive and well. thought everyone was into aluminum frames for their
            lightness. i myself is still using a frame made of tange no. 2 and
            which was made by ranada in 1995. should you decide to have one
            made, just make sure ave gets all the alignment right. think that is
            the weak point of local frame builders, esp. the wheel dropouts.
            safe cycling to you -resty
            >
            > Ramil Ramos <ramil_ramos@y...> wrote:Bro,
            >
            > I called him and he gave estimates for road frame only (no fork/ no
            > paint): using Columbus tubing - around 4T,
            > using Prestige tubing - around 8T (less weight).
            > Wala sya carved lugs, puro standard lang. I like to get a Prestige
            > tubing with carved lugs sana (para artistic and personalized todo-
            todo
            > na). You can specify head angle and seat angle... WOW! Pwede ka
            > palang magpagaya ng frame style but with your size talaga. 2
            weeks work.
            >
            > I think tumaas na charges nya dahil sabi sa kin noon sa Cartimar,
            > around 3,500 with paint na daw. Pero considering a custom-built
            > frame, mas mura na ito than having it done elsewhere abroad.
            Support
            > Pinoy kasi ako e. I'm also thinking of putting a sticker with
            words
            > like 'Meldea custom-built bike' e, baka makadiscount pa ako
            hehehe.
            >
            > Ramil
            >
            > --- In PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com, yonip_rekib
            > <yonip_rekib@y...> wrote:
            > > bro,
            > >
            > > magkano pagawa ng frame sa kaniya?
            > >
            > > Resty Refuerzo <restyrefuerzo@y...> wrote:
            > > hi ramil,
            > >
            > > should you go ahead and have a frame made, i wonder what tubes
            > you'll use? or lugs?
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Philippine Cycling Network
            > > (Always smile or wave at a fellow cyclist. Tayo-tayo na nga lang
            ito
            > kaya't huwag maging snob! :))
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ---------------------------------
            > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            > >
            > >
            > > Visit your group "PhilippineCyclingNetwork" on the web.
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > PhilippineCyclingNetwork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            > Service.
            > >
            > >
            > > ---------------------------------
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > __________________________________________________
            > > Do You Yahoo!?
            > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > > http://mail.yahoo.com
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Philippine Cycling Network
            > (Always smile or wave at a fellow cyclist. Tayo-tayo na nga lang
            ito kaya't huwag maging snob! :))
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            >
            >
            > Visit your group "PhilippineCyclingNetwork" on the web.
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > PhilippineCyclingNetwork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            Service.
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Yahoo! Mail Mobile
            > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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            huwag maging snob! :))




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          • Resty Refuerzo
            haven t ridden an aluminum road bike so i can t say anything about it. but surely when it comes to aesthetics, nothing beats a lugged, steel bike. fancy lugs,
            Message 5 of 25 , Jul 1 5:08 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              haven't ridden an aluminum road bike so i can't say anything about it. but surely when it comes to aesthetics, nothing beats a lugged, steel bike. fancy lugs, fancy seat tube/stay cluster design, and fancy paint job.
            • Resty Refuerzo
              thanks for this piece of info, eduard, nice to know ave uses a jig.
              Message 6 of 25 , Jul 1 5:10 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                thanks for this piece of info, eduard, nice to know ave uses a jig.
              • Resty Refuerzo
                haha so you were a victim too of Rey Delay, ricky, last i heard of rey, he was immigrating to the states. don t know if he s still around.
                Message 7 of 25 , Jul 1 5:14 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  haha so you were a "victim" too of Rey Delay, ricky, last i heard of rey, he was immigrating to the states. don't know if he's still around.
                • biciciclismo
                  Typically, the frame builder should have an extensive knowledge of different intricacies of frame geometry. It is the frame builder who dictates what are the
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jul 1 11:46 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Typically, the frame builder should have an extensive knowledge of
                    different intricacies of frame geometry. It is the frame builder who
                    dictates what are the lengths and angle of top tube, seat tube, etc.
                    based on the type of riding you will be doing --i.e. racing, touring,
                    century -- and measurements of the critical parts of your body. The
                    ride quality of the bike hinges on these parameters rather than the
                    type of tube and quality of weld (of course, these are important
                    too). This philosophy is very evident on Richard Sach's custom bike
                    here in the U.S.

                    Does anyone know if Ave possess this knowledge or have compared his
                    bike to an off-the-shelf bike like Trek or Giant? I am very much
                    interested on having a custom frame made in Philippines. I would like
                    to patronize Pinoy's product as much as possible as long the quality
                    of the product is good. I'd appreciate any feedback.
                    Salamat!

                    --- In PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com, "Ricardo Ledesma"
                    <campled@t...> wrote:
                    > Steel is good, I went thru about six frames built by Rey Delay,
                    whom Ave
                    > learned from in the mid 80's. In fact, I used to see Ave cutting
                    the tubes
                    > for Rey as an apprentice and file all the welds to a fillet brazed
                    finish.
                    > Rey always did the welds. There is one thing, "knowledge" in
                    building frames
                    > very important. It is good that you can have a custom made frame,
                    but what
                    > specs do you follow? Unless you know very well the proper length of
                    top,
                    > head and seat tube that will make you ride properly. Does your
                    builder know
                    > the right lengths?
                    >
                    > I kept a record of all the frames I have come to own thru the
                    years. Its
                    > funny cause when I look at the frames specs that Rey built for me,
                    all of
                    > them were too long. But I was just starting out so I didn't know.
                    For my
                    > height I now ride 51-52 top tubes and he always built me 54's! Kaya
                    pala
                    > masakit yung likod ko parati. Custom frame builders abroad know
                    proper
                    > proportion sa when you go custom, balanced ang build for your
                    height. If you
                    > do not know the proper tubes and your builder is not to
                    knowledgable, you
                    > will still end up with an ill fitting frame.
                    >
                    > Try these sites to have an idea of your range so you will know when
                    going to
                    > your builder:
                    >
                    > http://www.esp-ergomotion.com/
                    >
                    > http://www.coloradocyclist.com/bikefit/
                    >
                    > http://www.wrenchscience.com/WS1/default.asp
                    >
                    > http://www.tiemeyercycles.com/fit.htm
                    >
                    > Rickyled
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > _____
                    >
                    > From: PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com
                    > [mailto:PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of King
                    Bernas
                    > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 4:42 PM
                    > To: PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: PCN local custom-built frame
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > steel is real, as they say. my road bike is also built on a locally
                    > made chromo frame. i got it second hand from ress bautista (who has
                    > now upgraded to second hand italian steel :)
                    >
                    > para sa akin, aesthetically, mas ok talaga ang classic geometry and
                    > thin tubes. the ride is also more comfortable then aluminum.
                    > frankly, i'm also not that strong a rider to benefit from the
                    > stiffness of aluminum frames anyway :)
                    >
                    > --- In PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com, Resty Refuerzo
                    > <restyrefuerzo@y...> wrote:
                    > > thanks for your reply, ramil, it's good to know that steel is
                    > alive and well. thought everyone was into aluminum frames for
                    their
                    > lightness. i myself is still using a frame made of tange no. 2 and
                    > which was made by ranada in 1995. should you decide to have one
                    > made, just make sure ave gets all the alignment right. think that
                    is
                    > the weak point of local frame builders, esp. the wheel dropouts.
                    > safe cycling to you -resty
                    > >
                    > > Ramil Ramos <ramil_ramos@y...> wrote:Bro,
                    > >
                    > > I called him and he gave estimates for road frame only (no fork/
                    no
                    > > paint): using Columbus tubing - around 4T,
                    > > using Prestige tubing - around 8T (less weight).
                    > > Wala sya carved lugs, puro standard lang. I like to get a
                    Prestige
                    > > tubing with carved lugs sana (para artistic and personalized todo-
                    > todo
                    > > na). You can specify head angle and seat angle... WOW! Pwede ka
                    > > palang magpagaya ng frame style but with your size talaga. 2
                    > weeks work.
                    > >
                    > > I think tumaas na charges nya dahil sabi sa kin noon sa Cartimar,
                    > > around 3,500 with paint na daw. Pero considering a custom-built
                    > > frame, mas mura na ito than having it done elsewhere abroad.
                    > Support
                    > > Pinoy kasi ako e. I'm also thinking of putting a sticker with
                    > words
                    > > like 'Meldea custom-built bike' e, baka makadiscount pa ako
                    > hehehe.
                    > >
                    > > Ramil
                    > >
                    > > --- In PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com, yonip_rekib
                    > > <yonip_rekib@y...> wrote:
                    > > > bro,
                    > > >
                    > > > magkano pagawa ng frame sa kaniya?
                    > > >
                    > > > Resty Refuerzo <restyrefuerzo@y...> wrote:
                    > > > hi ramil,
                    > > >
                    > > > should you go ahead and have a frame made, i wonder what tubes
                    > > you'll use? or lugs?
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Philippine Cycling Network
                    > > > (Always smile or wave at a fellow cyclist. Tayo-tayo na nga
                    lang
                    > ito
                    > > kaya't huwag maging snob! :))
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                  • Ricardo Ledesma
                    Hi Resty, Di naman victim. I enjoyed rin riding his frames before. None of them failed and I never heard of any of his frames failing. Sa dami ng pinagawa ko
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jul 1 6:04 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi Resty,

                      Di naman victim. I enjoyed rin riding his frames before. None of them failed
                      and I never heard of any of his frames failing. Sa dami ng pinagawa ko okay
                      Rey, I was very familiar with his work, his family and place of work. Did
                      you meet his big wife?

                      When I look back, I always wondered if Rey had the proper science to frame
                      building. Sometimes it looked like he was over torching some welds. Isn't
                      there a limit to what the tube can withstand? Its all done by feel and
                      experience. If you had a road bike made and had lugs, he will flex those
                      lugs to whatever angle you want even if they were made for a set angle only.
                      Nothing was impossible with him. I even bought the early Softride beam
                      alone, and had him make the frame for me. Its still alive now & I see a
                      triathlete using it. He claimed to have a jig, but it was a slab of marble
                      with pencil lines. Nobody ever complained that his order na 73 seat angle
                      turned out to be 75 or 72.

                      Ang kalaban lang ng steel is rust. But if you clean and maintain your frame
                      often, this won't be a problem. I even had more problems with aluminum,
                      Cannondale pa. There was corrosion in the water bottle area, siguro mixed
                      with pawis na.

                      It was exciting to go thru a frame build. First buy the tubes (Tange or
                      Columbus, all bike stores had them) and demand for the stickers (Prestige
                      was tops). Then for roadies look for your lugs (the more pointed and
                      intricate the better). I think Tryon in JP Rizal still has. Go to the
                      builder and wait. Visit every now & then. In the mean time, go thru all the
                      magazines and choose your brand! This was the best part. You could have
                      Basso, Colnago etc. When you finally get your frame three to four weeks
                      delayed, you go to the painter. There were only two good ones, Medi Balahula
                      in San Antonio village Mkt. and Vergel of Paranaque that I was aware of.
                      Just show them the magazine & they do the rest. Medi used to have a graphic
                      artist but he left ( Saudi daw pero nasa cartimar lang pala). Now, you will
                      have to get a decal maker for the intricate fonts. Medi will clear coat it
                      (madalas sobra kintab sa dami ng clear). Then you go to your LBS and build
                      it up. Those were the days.

                      Rickyled

                      _____

                      From: PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Resty
                      Refuerzo
                      Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 8:14 PM
                      To: PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: PCN local custom-built frame




                      haha so you were a "victim" too of Rey Delay, ricky, last i heard of rey, he
                      was immigrating to the states. don't know if he's still around.




                      Philippine Cycling Network
                      (Always smile or wave at a fellow cyclist. Tayo-tayo na nga lang ito kaya't
                      huwag maging snob! :))




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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Eduard
                      Hmmm. I think this is where riders who are well versed and willing to help out come in. I believe if we (riders) give them (or him) the info and have them/him
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jul 2 12:19 AM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hmmm. I think this is where riders who are well versed and willing to help
                        out come in. I believe if we (riders) give them (or him) the info and have
                        them/him make it then they may improve their art and the cycling community
                        would greatly benefit. Just imagine if you give them literature/data about
                        building etc etc to further their knowledge and they do succeed :-)

                        Problem lang diyan is some builders are stubborn and think they know
                        everything BUT it is worth a try to help out.

                        Eduard



                        _____

                        From: PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com
                        [mailto:PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of biciciclismo
                        Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2005 2:47 AM
                        To: PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: PCN local custom-built frame



                        Typically, the frame builder should have an extensive knowledge of
                        different intricacies of frame geometry. It is the frame builder who
                        dictates what are the lengths and angle of top tube, seat tube, etc.
                        based on the type of riding you will be doing --i.e. racing, touring,
                        century -- and measurements of the critical parts of your body. The
                        ride quality of the bike hinges on these parameters rather than the
                        type of tube and quality of weld (of course, these are important
                        too). This philosophy is very evident on Richard Sach's custom bike
                        here in the U.S.

                        Does anyone know if Ave possess this knowledge or have compared his
                        bike to an off-the-shelf bike like Trek or Giant? I am very much
                        interested on having a custom frame made in Philippines. I would like
                        to patronize Pinoy's product as much as possible as long the quality
                        of the product is good. I'd appreciate any feedback.
                        Salamat!

                        --- In PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com, "Ricardo Ledesma"
                        <campled@t...> wrote:
                        > Steel is good, I went thru about six frames built by Rey Delay,
                        whom Ave
                        > learned from in the mid 80's. In fact, I used to see Ave cutting
                        the tubes
                        > for Rey as an apprentice and file all the welds to a fillet brazed
                        finish.
                        > Rey always did the welds. There is one thing, "knowledge" in
                        building frames
                        > very important. It is good that you can have a custom made frame,
                        but what
                        > specs do you follow? Unless you know very well the proper length of
                        top,
                        > head and seat tube that will make you ride properly. Does your
                        builder know
                        > the right lengths?
                        >
                        > I kept a record of all the frames I have come to own thru the
                        years. Its
                        > funny cause when I look at the frames specs that Rey built for me,
                        all of
                        > them were too long. But I was just starting out so I didn't know.
                        For my
                        > height I now ride 51-52 top tubes and he always built me 54's! Kaya
                        pala
                        > masakit yung likod ko parati. Custom frame builders abroad know
                        proper
                        > proportion sa when you go custom, balanced ang build for your
                        height. If you
                        > do not know the proper tubes and your builder is not to
                        knowledgable, you
                        > will still end up with an ill fitting frame.
                        >
                        > Try these sites to have an idea of your range so you will know when
                        going to
                        > your builder:
                        >
                        > http://www.esp-ergomotion.com/
                        >
                        > http://www.coloradocyclist.com/bikefit/
                        >
                        > http://www.wrenchscience.com/WS1/default.asp
                        >
                        > http://www.tiemeyercycles.com/fit.htm
                        >
                        > Rickyled
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > _____
                        >
                        > From: PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com
                        > [mailto:PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of King
                        Bernas
                        > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 4:42 PM
                        > To: PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: PCN local custom-built frame
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > steel is real, as they say. my road bike is also built on a locally
                        > made chromo frame. i got it second hand from ress bautista (who has
                        > now upgraded to second hand italian steel :)
                        >
                        > para sa akin, aesthetically, mas ok talaga ang classic geometry and
                        > thin tubes. the ride is also more comfortable then aluminum.
                        > frankly, i'm also not that strong a rider to benefit from the
                        > stiffness of aluminum frames anyway :)
                        >
                        > --- In PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com, Resty Refuerzo
                        > <restyrefuerzo@y...> wrote:
                        > > thanks for your reply, ramil, it's good to know that steel is
                        > alive and well. thought everyone was into aluminum frames for
                        their
                        > lightness. i myself is still using a frame made of tange no. 2 and
                        > which was made by ranada in 1995. should you decide to have one
                        > made, just make sure ave gets all the alignment right. think that
                        is
                        > the weak point of local frame builders, esp. the wheel dropouts.
                        > safe cycling to you -resty
                        > >
                        > > Ramil Ramos <ramil_ramos@y...> wrote:Bro,
                        > >
                        > > I called him and he gave estimates for road frame only (no fork/
                        no
                        > > paint): using Columbus tubing - around 4T,
                        > > using Prestige tubing - around 8T (less weight).
                        > > Wala sya carved lugs, puro standard lang. I like to get a
                        Prestige
                        > > tubing with carved lugs sana (para artistic and personalized todo-
                        > todo
                        > > na). You can specify head angle and seat angle... WOW! Pwede ka
                        > > palang magpagaya ng frame style but with your size talaga. 2
                        > weeks work.
                        > >
                        > > I think tumaas na charges nya dahil sabi sa kin noon sa Cartimar,
                        > > around 3,500 with paint na daw. Pero considering a custom-built
                        > > frame, mas mura na ito than having it done elsewhere abroad.
                        > Support
                        > > Pinoy kasi ako e. I'm also thinking of putting a sticker with
                        > words
                        > > like 'Meldea custom-built bike' e, baka makadiscount pa ako
                        > hehehe.
                        > >
                        > > Ramil
                        > >
                        > > --- In PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com, yonip_rekib
                        > > <yonip_rekib@y...> wrote:
                        > > > bro,
                        > > >
                        > > > magkano pagawa ng frame sa kaniya?
                        > > >
                        > > > Resty Refuerzo <restyrefuerzo@y...> wrote:
                        > > > hi ramil,
                        > > >
                        > > > should you go ahead and have a frame made, i wonder what tubes
                        > > you'll use? or lugs?
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Philippine Cycling Network
                        > > > (Always smile or wave at a fellow cyclist. Tayo-tayo na nga
                        lang
                        > ito
                        > > kaya't huwag maging snob! :))
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                        > > (Always smile or wave at a fellow cyclist. Tayo-tayo na nga lang
                        > ito kaya't huwag maging snob! :))
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                        > (Always smile or wave at a fellow cyclist. Tayo-tayo na nga lang
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                        huwag maging snob! :))




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                      • Resty Refuerzo
                        Hi Ricky, I meant victim as in fREYme delayed. He d tell his customer to come back on this date for his frame, the customer so excited to pick up his frame,
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jul 2 2:34 AM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi Ricky, I meant victim as in "fREYme delayed." He'd tell his customer to come back on this date for his frame, the customer so excited to pick up his frame, only to be let down because Rey hasn't even started on his frame on the said date.

                          When we had our frames made, his "jig" then was a piece of plywood with those pencil lines like you said. One thing I won't forget was his stomping on a frame with his foot to "coldset" it. He was wearing soft slippers then. Then eyeball to see if the frame was aligned.

                          Rey was a character, in a nice way. Too bad, his craftsmanship was never acknowleged. Despite working with crude tools, he did come up with "works of art." Resty

                          Ricardo Ledesma <campled@...> wrote:
                          Hi Resty,

                          Di naman victim. I enjoyed rin riding his frames before. None of them failed
                          and I never heard of any of his frames failing. Sa dami ng pinagawa ko okay
                          Rey, I was very familiar with his work, his family and place of work. Did
                          you meet his big wife?

                          When I look back, I always wondered if Rey had the proper science to frame
                          building. Sometimes it looked like he was over torching some welds. Isn't
                          there a limit to what the tube can withstand? Its all done by feel and
                          experience. If you had a road bike made and had lugs, he will flex those
                          lugs to whatever angle you want even if they were made for a set angle only.
                          Nothing was impossible with him. I even bought the early Softride beam
                          alone, and had him make the frame for me. Its still alive now & I see a
                          triathlete using it. He claimed to have a jig, but it was a slab of marble
                          with pencil lines. Nobody ever complained that his order na 73 seat angle
                          turned out to be 75 or 72.

                          Ang kalaban lang ng steel is rust. But if you clean and maintain your frame
                          often, this won't be a problem. I even had more problems with aluminum,
                          Cannondale pa. There was corrosion in the water bottle area, siguro mixed
                          with pawis na.

                          It was exciting to go thru a frame build. First buy the tubes (Tange or
                          Columbus, all bike stores had them) and demand for the stickers (Prestige
                          was tops). Then for roadies look for your lugs (the more pointed and
                          intricate the better). I think Tryon in JP Rizal still has. Go to the
                          builder and wait. Visit every now & then. In the mean time, go thru all the
                          magazines and choose your brand! This was the best part. You could have
                          Basso, Colnago etc. When you finally get your frame three to four weeks
                          delayed, you go to the painter. There were only two good ones, Medi Balahula
                          in San Antonio village Mkt. and Vergel of Paranaque that I was aware of.
                          Just show them the magazine & they do the rest. Medi used to have a graphic
                          artist but he left ( Saudi daw pero nasa cartimar lang pala). Now, you will
                          have to get a decal maker for the intricate fonts. Medi will clear coat it
                          (madalas sobra kintab sa dami ng clear). Then you go to your LBS and build
                          it up. Those were the days.

                          Rickyled

                          _____

                          From: PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com
                          [mailto:PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Resty
                          Refuerzo
                          Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 8:14 PM
                          To: PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: PCN local custom-built frame




                          haha so you were a "victim" too of Rey Delay, ricky, last i heard of rey, he
                          was immigrating to the states. don't know if he's still around.




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                        • Jojo
                          if the bikebuilder lacks knowledge of frame geometry, the cyclist should exert efforts to know which frame measurements suit him and ask the builder to follow
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jul 3 10:41 PM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            if the bikebuilder lacks knowledge of frame geometry, the cyclist should
                            exert efforts to know which frame measurements suit him and ask the builder
                            to follow such specs. the cyclist should not rely on the builder totally,
                            it is the cyclist who will ride the bike anyway and not the builder...worst
                            case, borrow a bike that fits your purpose and that you are comfortable
                            with, then ask the builder to follow exactly the same geometry or make
                            adjustments as needed.

                            At 02:46 AM 7/2/2005, you wrote:
                            >Typically, the frame builder should have an extensive knowledge of
                            >different intricacies of frame geometry. It is the frame builder who
                            >dictates what are the lengths and angle of top tube, seat tube, etc.
                            >based on the type of riding you will be doing --i.e. racing, touring,
                            >century -- and measurements of the critical parts of your body. The
                            >ride quality of the bike hinges on these parameters rather than the
                            >type of tube and quality of weld (of course, these are important
                            >too). This philosophy is very evident on Richard Sach's custom bike
                            >here in the U.S.
                            >
                            >Does anyone know if Ave possess this knowledge or have compared his
                            >bike to an off-the-shelf bike like Trek or Giant? I am very much
                            >interested on having a custom frame made in Philippines. I would like
                            >to patronize Pinoy's product as much as possible as long the quality
                            >of the product is good. I'd appreciate any feedback.
                            >Salamat!
                            >
                            >--- In PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com, "Ricardo Ledesma"
                            ><campled@t...> wrote:
                            > > Steel is good, I went thru about six frames built by Rey Delay,
                            >whom Ave
                            > > learned from in the mid 80's. In fact, I used to see Ave cutting
                            >the tubes
                            > > for Rey as an apprentice and file all the welds to a fillet brazed
                            >finish.
                            > > Rey always did the welds. There is one thing, "knowledge" in
                            >building frames
                            > > very important. It is good that you can have a custom made frame,
                            >but what
                            > > specs do you follow? Unless you know very well the proper length of
                            >top,
                            > > head and seat tube that will make you ride properly. Does your
                            >builder know
                            > > the right lengths?
                            > >
                            > > I kept a record of all the frames I have come to own thru the
                            >years. Its
                            > > funny cause when I look at the frames specs that Rey built for me,
                            >all of
                            > > them were too long. But I was just starting out so I didn't know.
                            >For my
                            > > height I now ride 51-52 top tubes and he always built me 54's! Kaya
                            >pala
                            > > masakit yung likod ko parati. Custom frame builders abroad know
                            >proper
                            > > proportion sa when you go custom, balanced ang build for your
                            >height. If you
                            > > do not know the proper tubes and your builder is not to
                            >knowledgable, you
                            > > will still end up with an ill fitting frame.
                            > >
                            > > Try these sites to have an idea of your range so you will know when
                            >going to
                            > > your builder:
                            > >
                            > > <http://www.esp-ergomotion.com/>http://www.esp-ergomotion.com/
                            > >
                            > > http://www.coloradocyclist.com/bikefit/
                            > >
                            > >
                            > <http://www.wrenchscience.com/WS1/default.asp>http://www.wrenchscience.com/WS1/default.asp
                            > >
                            > > http://www.tiemeyercycles.com/fit.htm
                            > >
                            > > Rickyled
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > _____
                            > >
                            > > From: PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com
                            > > [mailto:PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of King
                            >Bernas
                            > > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 4:42 PM
                            > > To: PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Subject: Re: PCN local custom-built frame
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > steel is real, as they say. my road bike is also built on a locally
                            > > made chromo frame. i got it second hand from ress bautista (who has
                            > > now upgraded to second hand italian steel :)
                            > >
                            > > para sa akin, aesthetically, mas ok talaga ang classic geometry and
                            > > thin tubes. the ride is also more comfortable then aluminum.
                            > > frankly, i'm also not that strong a rider to benefit from the
                            > > stiffness of aluminum frames anyway :)
                            > >
                            > > --- In PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com, Resty Refuerzo
                            > > <restyrefuerzo@y...> wrote:
                            > > > thanks for your reply, ramil, it's good to know that steel is
                            > > alive and well. thought everyone was into aluminum frames for
                            >their
                            > > lightness. i myself is still using a frame made of tange no. 2 and
                            > > which was made by ranada in 1995. should you decide to have one
                            > > made, just make sure ave gets all the alignment right. think that
                            >is
                            > > the weak point of local frame builders, esp. the wheel dropouts.
                            > > safe cycling to you -resty
                            > > >
                            > > > Ramil Ramos <ramil_ramos@y...> wrote:Bro,
                            > > >
                            > > > I called him and he gave estimates for road frame only (no fork/
                            >no
                            > > > paint): using Columbus tubing - around 4T,
                            > > > using Prestige tubing - around 8T (less weight).
                            > > > Wala sya carved lugs, puro standard lang. I like to get a
                            >Prestige
                            > > > tubing with carved lugs sana (para artistic and personalized todo-
                            > > todo
                            > > > na). You can specify head angle and seat angle... WOW! Pwede ka
                            > > > palang magpagaya ng frame style but with your size talaga. 2
                            > > weeks work.
                            > > >
                            > > > I think tumaas na charges nya dahil sabi sa kin noon sa Cartimar,
                            > > > around 3,500 with paint na daw. Pero considering a custom-built
                            > > > frame, mas mura na ito than having it done elsewhere abroad.
                            > > Support
                            > > > Pinoy kasi ako e. I'm also thinking of putting a sticker with
                            > > words
                            > > > like 'Meldea custom-built bike' e, baka makadiscount pa ako
                            > > hehehe.
                            > > >
                            > > > Ramil
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com, yonip_rekib
                            > > > <yonip_rekib@y...> wrote:
                            > > > > bro,
                            > > > >
                            > > > > magkano pagawa ng frame sa kaniya?
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Resty Refuerzo <restyrefuerzo@y...> wrote:
                            > > > > hi ramil,
                            > > > >
                            > > > > should you go ahead and have a frame made, i wonder what tubes
                            > > > you'll use? or lugs?
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Philippine Cycling Network
                            > > > > (Always smile or wave at a fellow cyclist. Tayo-tayo na nga
                            >lang
                            > > ito
                            > > > kaya't huwag maging snob! :))
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                            > > oors&w4=Sell+stuff&c=4&s=55&.sig=qy1-RoXk2WxfoHuVLaJySQ> bike
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                          • Ramil Ramos
                            I agree! Madami websites that discuss about bike fit. Ricky has listed some (Thanks pre). The material and labor costs are lower dito sa atin. Most of the
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jul 5 9:17 PM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I agree! Madami websites that discuss about bike fit. Ricky has
                              listed some (Thanks pre). The material and labor costs are lower dito
                              sa atin. Most of the parts kasi are NOS ("new old stocks" they bought
                              in old price pa). The skills are here, we just need to update them.
                              Kaya lang nga some are really resistant to changes.

                              I'll look around muna for the lugs that I want, then saka ko pagawa
                              ang gusto ko talaga. Meron ba kayo alam somebody selling carved lugs
                              (ala-Sach)? OR somebody who could do carvings on the lugs?

                              Last week, I bought a pre-owned custom-built lugless road frame (from
                              Mcky Camba/taga-UP) with the geometry of GIANT OCR. I checked on the
                              web and similar nga slightly smaller lang(T-T=500 instead of 535mm).
                              Dinala ko ke Medy last Monday for custom-paint. I'll post the picture
                              once I finished this project in 2 weeks siguro.

                              Good reading materials on recording your present road bike position:
                              << http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/fix/?id=roadposition >>
                              --- and recording your MTB position
                              << http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/fix/?id=position >>

                              :) Ramil

                              --- In PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
                              <eduardtf@g...> wrote:
                              > Hmmm. I think this is where riders who are well versed and willing
                              to help
                              > out come in. I believe if we (riders) give them (or him) the info
                              and have
                              > them/him make it then they may improve their art and the cycling
                              community
                              > would greatly benefit. Just imagine if you give them literature/data
                              about
                              > building etc etc to further their knowledge and they do succeed :-)
                              >
                              > Problem lang diyan is some builders are stubborn and think they know
                              > everything BUT it is worth a try to help out.
                              >
                              > Eduard
                            • Eduard
                              If I wasn t mistaken I saw some lugs at Ballistics. But be careful tuso daw yung owner/sales doon Eduard _____ From: PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com
                              Message 14 of 25 , Jul 6 1:15 AM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                If I wasn't mistaken I saw some lugs at Ballistics. But be careful tuso daw
                                yung owner/sales doon

                                Eduard



                                _____

                                From: PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com
                                [mailto:PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ramil Ramos
                                Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 12:17 PM
                                To: PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: PCN local custom-built frame



                                I agree! Madami websites that discuss about bike fit. Ricky has
                                listed some (Thanks pre). The material and labor costs are lower dito
                                sa atin. Most of the parts kasi are NOS ("new old stocks" they bought
                                in old price pa). The skills are here, we just need to update them.
                                Kaya lang nga some are really resistant to changes.

                                I'll look around muna for the lugs that I want, then saka ko pagawa
                                ang gusto ko talaga. Meron ba kayo alam somebody selling carved lugs
                                (ala-Sach)? OR somebody who could do carvings on the lugs?

                                Last week, I bought a pre-owned custom-built lugless road frame (from
                                Mcky Camba/taga-UP) with the geometry of GIANT OCR. I checked on the
                                web and similar nga slightly smaller lang(T-T=500 instead of 535mm).
                                Dinala ko ke Medy last Monday for custom-paint. I'll post the picture
                                once I finished this project in 2 weeks siguro.

                                Good reading materials on recording your present road bike position:
                                << http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/fix/?id=roadposition >>
                                --- and recording your MTB position
                                << http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/fix/?id=position >>

                                :) Ramil

                                --- In PhilippineCyclingNetwork@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
                                <eduardtf@g...> wrote:
                                > Hmmm. I think this is where riders who are well versed and willing
                                to help
                                > out come in. I believe if we (riders) give them (or him) the info
                                and have
                                > them/him make it then they may improve their art and the cycling
                                community
                                > would greatly benefit. Just imagine if you give them literature/data
                                about
                                > building etc etc to further their knowledge and they do succeed :-)
                                >
                                > Problem lang diyan is some builders are stubborn and think they know
                                > everything BUT it is worth a try to help out.
                                >
                                > Eduard




                                Philippine Cycling Network
                                (Always smile or wave at a fellow cyclist. Tayo-tayo na nga lang ito kaya't
                                huwag maging snob! :))




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