Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Peterhead] Re: Seamen

Expand Messages
  • Jean Cameron
    To Mary Barnes: Thankyou for your imput about the seamen s tickets. I will be in touch with Wade. Jean ... From: Mary Barnes To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 20 , Sep 15, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      To Mary Barnes: Thankyou for your imput about the seamen's tickets. I will be in touch with Wade. Jean
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Mary Barnes
      To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 6:53 PM
      Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Re: Seamen


      To Jean and William,

      Note that it's important to distinguish between Seamen's and Master's
      tickets (see http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/UK19thCSeamen.html). If
      Jean's list is of seamen and their ticket numbers, Robert Davidson's
      Master's ticket will not be on it. From 1835, seamen had to be
      registered and their certificate of registration was called a ticket.
      But when an experienced seaman completed the process of qualifying as
      a master, he was issued with a new certificate, with a different number.

      I found out about my Peterhead shipmaster ancestors, first from Wade
      Buchan's website (go to http://users.bigpond.net.au/phdgen/, choose
      Miscellaneous Records and then Peterhead Seamen 1840s and 50s).
      Incidentally, there's only one Robert Davidson listed, born in
      Peterhead in 1791, seamen's ticket number 131108. If you think this is
      your guy, contact Wade. He has copies of the actual tickets.

      On a visit to Britain last year, I found out more about my shipmasters
      from the Lloyd's Captains Register, held at the Guildhall Library in
      London (see http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/capreg.htm). It has details of
      each Shipmaster's career after gaining his master's ticket.
      Unfortunately only the index is available online (see http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/capintro.htm
      ), and even that is not yet complete. However, the Ds are complete,
      and I notice that although there are many Robert Davidsons on it,
      there is only one born in Peterhead (in 1839), with Master's
      certificate of competency number C32589, changed to C32598, awarded at
      London in 1875. I've no idea why the number might have been changed,
      maybe just an error in the original entry. You need the number of the
      master's ticket to find out more. At the library in the National
      Maritime Museum in Greenwich I was able (armed with the number) to get
      a copy of the actual "ticket" and, much more important, his
      application for the ticket, which gave details of his career as a
      mariner up till that time, including all the ships he had sailed on.
      If you are not able to visit London, you could probably get a
      researcher to look up the records for you, but it's not nearly as
      exciting as going there in person and handling the actual records!

      I hope this is of some help.

      Mary Barnes
      marysb@...





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • William E. Scheyer
      Mary: Thanks for your help. My Robert Davidson was born on October 28, 1840 in Cruden. So, perhaps the Robert Davidson with ticket number 131108 was his father
      Message 2 of 20 , Sep 16, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Mary:

        Thanks for your help. My Robert Davidson was born on October 28, 1840 in
        Cruden. So, perhaps the Robert Davidson with ticket number 131108 was his
        father or grandfather. I can see this will take a lot more work although, I
        do have many crew lists etc. from the national archives showing Captain
        Robert Davidson Certificate number 32589. Perhaps I'll contact Wade also.

        Regards,

        William

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Peterhead@yahoogroups.com]On
        Behalf Of Jean Cameron
        Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:54 PM
        To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Re: Seamen


        To Mary Barnes: Thankyou for your imput about the seamen's tickets. I
        will be in touch with Wade. Jean
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Mary Barnes
        To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 6:53 PM
        Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Re: Seamen

        To Jean and William,

        Note that it's important to distinguish between Seamen's and Master's
        tickets (see http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/UK19thCSeamen.html). If
        Jean's list is of seamen and their ticket numbers, Robert Davidson's
        Master's ticket will not be on it. From 1835, seamen had to be
        registered and their certificate of registration was called a ticket.
        But when an experienced seaman completed the process of qualifying as
        a master, he was issued with a new certificate, with a different number.

        I found out about my Peterhead shipmaster ancestors, first from Wade
        Buchan's website (go to http://users.bigpond.net.au/phdgen/, choose
        Miscellaneous Records and then Peterhead Seamen 1840s and 50s).
        Incidentally, there's only one Robert Davidson listed, born in
        Peterhead in 1791, seamen's ticket number 131108. If you think this is
        your guy, contact Wade. He has copies of the actual tickets.

        On a visit to Britain last year, I found out more about my shipmasters
        from the Lloyd's Captains Register, held at the Guildhall Library in
        London (see http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/capreg.htm). It has details of
        each Shipmaster's career after gaining his master's ticket.
        Unfortunately only the index is available online (see
        http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/capintro.htm
        ), and even that is not yet complete. However, the Ds are complete,
        and I notice that although there are many Robert Davidsons on it,
        there is only one born in Peterhead (in 1839), with Master's
        certificate of competency number C32589, changed to C32598, awarded at
        London in 1875. I've no idea why the number might have been changed,
        maybe just an error in the original entry. You need the number of the
        master's ticket to find out more. At the library in the National
        Maritime Museum in Greenwich I was able (armed with the number) to get
        a copy of the actual "ticket" and, much more important, his
        application for the ticket, which gave details of his career as a
        mariner up till that time, including all the ships he had sailed on.
        If you are not able to visit London, you could probably get a
        researcher to look up the records for you, but it's not nearly as
        exciting as going there in person and handling the actual records!

        I hope this is of some help.

        Mary Barnes
        marysb@...

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Mary Barnes
        William, I think it really would be worth your while to go (or get someone to go for you) to both the Guildhall Library and the National Maritime Museum,
        Message 3 of 20 , Sep 16, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          William,

          I think it really would be worth your while to go (or get someone to
          go for you) to both the Guildhall Library and the National Maritime
          Museum, because between the two you would get the complete career
          history of the Robert Davidson who had master's ticket C32589 /
          C32598, who seems to be the one you're interested in (but better check
          both numbers, as it's not clear when or why the number was changed).

          Mary


          Mary Barnes
          marysb@...






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • William E. Scheyer
          Mary: You are quite correct. But, since I live in the USA I ll need to get someone to do the leg work for me. Do you have a list of such people? William ...
          Message 4 of 20 , Sep 17, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Mary:

            You are quite correct. But, since I live in the USA I'll need to get someone
            to do the leg work for me. Do you have a list of such people?

            William

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Peterhead@yahoogroups.com]On
            Behalf Of Mary Barnes
            Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 9:33 PM
            To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Re: Seamen


            William,

            I think it really would be worth your while to go (or get someone to
            go for you) to both the Guildhall Library and the National Maritime
            Museum, because between the two you would get the complete career
            history of the Robert Davidson who had master's ticket C32589 /
            C32598, who seems to be the one you're interested in (but better check
            both numbers, as it's not clear when or why the number was changed).

            Mary

            Mary Barnes
            marysb@...

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Mary Barnes
            On 18/09/2009, at 10:28 AM, William E. Scheyer wrote ... I don t have a list for London, but I know such people exist, and have used one in another city. Try
            Message 5 of 20 , Sep 18, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              On 18/09/2009, at 10:28 AM, William E. Scheyer wrote
              > Mary:
              >
              > You are quite correct. But, since I live in the USA I'll need to get
              > someone
              > to do the leg work for me. Do you have a list of such people?
              >
              > William
              >








              I don't have a list for London, but I know such people exist, and have
              used one in another city. Try googling something like "genealogical
              researcher London" and see what you get.

              Mary

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jean Cameron
              Can someone please tell me the requirements to get a seamen s ticket early 1800 s. Thanks. Jean Cameron [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 20 , Sep 18, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Can someone please tell me the requirements to get a seamen's ticket early 1800's. Thanks.

                Jean Cameron

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Mary Barnes
                Hi Jean, I don t think there were any requirements for a ticket except that the man would have had to be employed on a seagoing vessel. And I m not sure if
                Message 7 of 20 , Sep 18, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Jean,

                  I don't think there were any requirements for a "ticket" except that
                  the man would have had to be employed on a seagoing vessel. And I'm
                  not sure if it applied to all vessels in the coastal trade, maybe only
                  to those visiting foreign ports. The Mates' and Master's tickets were
                  a different matter. To get these, a seaman had to provide his record
                  of experience and pass exams. The exceptioin was when the system was
                  first introduced, when experienced seamen who had already been in
                  command of vessels were granted master's certificates on the basis of
                  their experience only.

                  See http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/UK19thCSeamen.html.
                  Organised service records of a seaman's career do not commence until
                  1835.
                  The Merchant Shipping Act of 1835 required masters of all ships to
                  file Agreements and Crew Lists with the Registrar General of Shipping
                  and Seamen.
                  From 1844, any seaman leaving the UK was required to have a register
                  ticket, details being entered in this series of registers. This
                  register gives the name, place of birth and Register Ticket number.
                  The ticket system was abandoned in 1857.

                  See also The National Archives Research guide merchant Seaman
                  Registers of Service 1835-1857 http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=127&j=1


                  On 19/09/2009, at 10:32 AM, Jean Cameron wrote:

                  > Can someone please tell me the requirements to get a seamen's ticket
                  > early 1800's. Thanks.
                  >
                  > Jean Cameron,___
                  >





                  Mary Barnes
                  marysb@...






                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Jean Cameron
                  Hi Mary: Thanks so much for your information, one of these days I hope to pull it all together. Jean ... From: Mary Barnes To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                  Message 8 of 20 , Sep 19, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Mary: Thanks so much for your information, one of these days I hope to pull it all together. Jean
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Mary Barnes
                    To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 6:40 PM
                    Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Seamen


                    Hi Jean,

                    I don't think there were any requirements for a "ticket" except that
                    the man would have had to be employed on a seagoing vessel. And I'm
                    not sure if it applied to all vessels in the coastal trade, maybe only
                    to those visiting foreign ports. The Mates' and Master's tickets were
                    a different matter. To get these, a seaman had to provide his record
                    of experience and pass exams. The exceptioin was when the system was
                    first introduced, when experienced seamen who had already been in
                    command of vessels were granted master's certificates on the basis of
                    their experience only.

                    See http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/UK19thCSeamen.html.
                    Organised service records of a seaman's career do not commence until
                    1835.
                    The Merchant Shipping Act of 1835 required masters of all ships to
                    file Agreements and Crew Lists with the Registrar General of Shipping
                    and Seamen.
                    From 1844, any seaman leaving the UK was required to have a register
                    ticket, details being entered in this series of registers. This
                    register gives the name, place of birth and Register Ticket number.
                    The ticket system was abandoned in 1857.

                    See also The National Archives Research guide merchant Seaman
                    Registers of Service 1835-1857 http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=127&j=1

                    On 19/09/2009, at 10:32 AM, Jean Cameron wrote:

                    > Can someone please tell me the requirements to get a seamen's ticket
                    > early 1800's. Thanks.
                    >
                    > Jean Cameron,___
                    >

                    Mary Barnes
                    marysb@...

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • William E. Scheyer
                    Mary: I followed your advise and hired a researcher. It was well worth the cost as I now have not only a report but also photos of all my GGGrandfather s
                    Message 9 of 20 , Dec 29, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Mary:

                      I followed your advise and hired a researcher. It was well worth the cost as
                      I now have not only a report but also photos of all my GGGrandfather's
                      certificates and applications for same.

                      William

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Peterhead@yahoogroups.com]On
                      Behalf Of Mary Barnes
                      Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 9:33 PM
                      To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Re: Seamen


                      William,

                      I think it really would be worth your while to go (or get someone to
                      go for you) to both the Guildhall Library and the National Maritime
                      Museum, because between the two you would get the complete career
                      history of the Robert Davidson who had master's ticket C32589 /
                      C32598, who seems to be the one you're interested in (but better check
                      both numbers, as it's not clear when or why the number was changed).

                      Mary

                      Mary Barnes
                      marysb@...

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Mary Barnes
                      Good to hear from you again, William. I m glad that it worked out well for you. These certificates are full of information, aren t they? Mary ... Mary Barnes
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jan 7, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Good to hear from you again, William. I'm glad that it worked out well for you. These certificates are full of information, aren't they?

                        Mary

                        On 30/12/2009, at 11:21 AM, William E. Scheyer wrote:

                        > Mary:
                        >
                        > I followed your advise and hired a researcher. It was well worth the cost as
                        > I now have not only a report but also photos of all my GGGrandfather's
                        > certificates and applications for same.
                        >
                        > William
                        >
                        >

                        Mary Barnes
                        marysb@...






                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • William E. Scheyer
                        Mary: Yes, the certificates hold plenty of information. I even learned about ships my gggfather captained I never knew about. Once again, thanks for your
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jan 13, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Mary:

                          Yes, the certificates hold plenty of information. I even learned about ships
                          my gggfather captained I never knew about. Once again, thanks for your
                          advice.

                          William


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Peterhead@yahoogroups.com]On
                          Behalf Of Mary Barnes
                          Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 2:34 AM
                          To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Re: Seamen



                          Good to hear from you again, William. I'm glad that it worked out well for
                          you. These certificates are full of information, aren't they?

                          Mary

                          On 30/12/2009, at 11:21 AM, William E. Scheyer wrote:

                          > Mary:
                          >
                          > I followed your advise and hired a researcher. It was well worth the
                          cost as
                          > I now have not only a report but also photos of all my GGGrandfather's
                          > certificates and applications for same.
                          >
                          > William
                          >
                          >

                          Mary Barnes
                          marysb@...

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.