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Silmeen/Salmeen

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  • ssn_richmond
    Hi I have been reading all the correspondence about the Stephen family with interest as I have some connections too.My relatives are Alexander and Jane ( Jean)
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 26, 2006
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      Hi

      I have been reading all the correspondence about the Stephen family
      with interest as I have some connections too.My relatives are
      Alexander and Jane ( Jean) who lived in Boddam Village at the time of
      the 1841 Census.They were both 25 at the time and their children were
      called George,Jean and Alexander.They then went on to have lots more
      children!
      Their grand-daughter married John Silmeen (Salmeen ) from Peterhead
      and I would love to hear from anyone who has any knowledge of that
      family name. That was my maiden name and I think it may have now died
      out in Scotland/England (where the family moved to in about 1890 ).Can
      anyone prove me wrong?

      Thanks
      Sue
    • Cci
      Hi Sue, No you have nt died out. On the FreeBDM for England there are Silmeen s in Durham, Kent and Berkshire. What names are you looking for? Catherine ...
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 26, 2006
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        Hi Sue,
        No you have'nt died out.
        On the FreeBDM for England there are Silmeen's in Durham, Kent and Berkshire.
        What names are you looking for?
        Catherine





        ----- Original Message -----
        From: ssn_richmond
        To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 8:15 PM
        Subject: [Peterhead] Silmeen/Salmeen


        Hi

        I have been reading all the correspondence about the Stephen family
        with interest as I have some connections too.My relatives are
        Alexander and Jane ( Jean) who lived in Boddam Village at the time of
        the 1841 Census.They were both 25 at the time and their children were
        called George,Jean and Alexander.They then went on to have lots more
        children!
        Their grand-daughter married John Silmeen (Salmeen ) from Peterhead
        and I would love to hear from anyone who has any knowledge of that
        family name. That was my maiden name and I think it may have now died
        out in Scotland/England (where the family moved to in about 1890 ).Can
        anyone prove me wrong?

        Thanks
        Sue






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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Alison Kennedy
        Hi, John Silmeen (bc 1859, son of John Silmeen (died before 1884), occ.labourer & Williamina Silmeen ms Webster) married Jane (Jean) Finnie (b. 1862, Phd,
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 26, 2006
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          Hi,

          John Silmeen (bc 1859, son of John Silmeen (died before 1884), occ.labourer & Williamina Silmeen ms Webster) married Jane (Jean) Finnie (b. 1862, Phd, daughter of George Finnie & Jane Stephen) on 9 August 1884 at Phd. John Silmeen jnr. was a seaman in the Merchant Service.

          By 1891 census the couple were living in Aberdeen as follows:

          Parish of St. Nicholas (Aberdeen) 1891 Census
          District 11; Page 26; Schedule 150; 6 St. Andrew's Street

          Jane Silmeen, head, mar, 32, Seaman's wife, Aberdeenshire, Peterhead
          John Silmeen, son, 3, Aberdeenshire, Peterhead
          Kenneth Silmeen, son, 3 months, Aberdeenshire, Aberdeen

          Not related as far as I know, but have done some work on the Finnie side of the tree and hope this helps.

          Alison


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Cci
          To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 1:43 PM
          Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Silmeen/Salmeen


          Hi Sue,
          No you have'nt died out.
          On the FreeBDM for England there are Silmeen's in Durham, Kent and Berkshire.
          What names are you looking for?
          Catherine

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: ssn_richmond
          To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 8:15 PM
          Subject: [Peterhead] Silmeen/Salmeen

          Hi

          I have been reading all the correspondence about the Stephen family
          with interest as I have some connections too.My relatives are
          Alexander and Jane ( Jean) who lived in Boddam Village at the time of
          the 1841 Census.They were both 25 at the time and their children were
          called George,Jean and Alexander.They then went on to have lots more
          children!
          Their grand-daughter married John Silmeen (Salmeen ) from Peterhead
          and I would love to hear from anyone who has any knowledge of that
          family name. That was my maiden name and I think it may have now died
          out in Scotland/England (where the family moved to in about 1890 ).Can
          anyone prove me wrong?

          Thanks
          Sue

          ----------------------------------------------------------

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          Checked by AVG Free Edition.
          Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.3/395 - Release Date: 7/21/2006

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • ssn_richmond
          Hi Catherine and Alison Thanks for all your hard work - much appreciated. Catherine,thanks for the extra info on the Silmeen family.Have you any idea about why
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 27, 2006
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            Hi Catherine and Alison

            Thanks for all your hard work - much appreciated.

            Catherine,thanks for the extra info on the Silmeen family.Have you
            any idea about why they might have moved to Aberdeen in 1890 and
            then on to South Shields?
            I would like to think that that was my Williamina Webster,and her
            mother's name was certainly Mary (Wallace) but from her Death
            Certificate she would seem to have been born in 1832 which would
            have made her 9 in 1841.Perhaps it was a mistake in the census? It
            would seem more reasonable to have children of 12 9 and 6 rather
            than 12 6 and 6. I'll have to do more research!

            Alison, I was really interested to hear about your Finnie
            connection.The Jane Finnie you mentioned who married John Silmeen
            later married George Moffatt and was my father's "Granny Moffatt".He
            always spoke very affectionately of her and I still have a photo of
            her.
            Do you have any info on Jane's grandfather Alexander Finnie (1804-
            1865 ) or his wife Margaret Craib? Regards Sue
          • Cci
            Hi Sue, The ages on the 1841 census, was rounded up, they are not exact ages as later census s, so I would say this is your family. I checked on the FreeCen
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 27, 2006
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              Hi Sue,
              The ages on the 1841 census, was rounded up, they are not exact ages as later census's, so I would say this is your family.
              I checked on the FreeCen site also and they have the same data I gave you.
              Catherine







              ----- Original Message -----
              From: ssn_richmond
              To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 7:36 PM
              Subject: [Peterhead] Silmeen/Salmeen


              Hi Catherine and Alison

              Thanks for all your hard work - much appreciated.

              Catherine,thanks for the extra info on the Silmeen family.Have you
              any idea about why they might have moved to Aberdeen in 1890 and
              then on to South Shields?
              I would like to think that that was my Williamina Webster,and her
              mother's name was certainly Mary (Wallace) but from her Death
              Certificate she would seem to have been born in 1832 which would
              have made her 9 in 1841.Perhaps it was a mistake in the census? It
              would seem more reasonable to have children of 12 9 and 6 rather
              than 12 6 and 6. I'll have to do more research!

              Alison, I was really interested to hear about your Finnie
              connection.The Jane Finnie you mentioned who married John Silmeen
              later married George Moffatt and was my father's "Granny Moffatt".He
              always spoke very affectionately of her and I still have a photo of
              her.
              Do you have any info on Jane's grandfather Alexander Finnie (1804-
              1865 ) or his wife Margaret Craib? Regards Sue






              ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


              No virus found in this incoming message.
              Checked by AVG Free Edition.
              Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.3/395 - Release Date: 7/21/2006


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Ray Hennessy
              Hi Sue Catherine was not quite accurate in her reply. The intention for the 1841 Census of Scotland was that adults over 15 should have their ages ROUNDED DOWN
              Message 6 of 12 , Jul 28, 2006
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                Hi Sue

                Catherine was not quite accurate in her reply.

                The intention for the 1841 Census of Scotland was that adults over 15 should have their ages ROUNDED DOWN to the next multiple of FIVE. So someone aged 18 should be recorded as "15", 27 would appear as "25", and so on.

                Babies younger than one year should have their age recorded as the number of whole months of their age and from 1 to 15 years, the recorded age should show the number of complete years. Someone 12 years and 360 days should be down as "12".

                Having said that - the counsel of perfection - note that the enumerators were a bit of a law to themselves. Some followed the rules exactly. Others recorded the exact age in years for all respondents aged over one year [or as exact as it could be calculated]. And some seemed to do a bit of give and take. I have seen one case of a wife 12 years older than her husband having her 1841 age down as the same as his.

                And of course the respondents had their own agenda. Some lied, some just didn't know how old they were, and some seem to have been guessed by the "head" of the household, especially for lowly servants.

                Note that these differences may not have been "mistakes" at the time: the guesses might have been genuinely the best they could work out. And don't forget that the records have been heavily marked by the returning officers when checking the enumerators' efforts so sometimes the age on the form/film simply can't be accurately read for transcription.

                After all that, I think Catherine is probably right in saying this is likely to be your family.

                Best wishes

                Ray Hennessy


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Cci
                To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 1:40 PM
                Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Silmeen/Salmeen


                Hi Sue,
                The ages on the 1841 census, was rounded up, they are not exact ages as later census's, so I would say this is your family.
                I checked on the FreeCen site also and they have the same data I gave you.
                Catherine

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: ssn_richmond
                To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 7:36 PM
                Subject: [Peterhead] Silmeen/Salmeen

                Hi Catherine and Alison

                Thanks for all your hard work - much appreciated.

                Catherine,thanks for the extra info on the Silmeen family.Have you
                any idea about why they might have moved to Aberdeen in 1890 and
                then on to South Shields?
                I would like to think that that was my Williamina Webster,and her
                mother's name was certainly Mary (Wallace) but from her Death
                Certificate she would seem to have been born in 1832 which would
                have made her 9 in 1841.Perhaps it was a mistake in the census? It
                would seem more reasonable to have children of 12 9 and 6 rather
                than 12 6 and 6. I'll have to do more research!

                Alison, I was really interested to hear about your Finnie
                connection.The Jane Finnie you mentioned who married John Silmeen
                later married George Moffatt and was my father's "Granny Moffatt".He
                always spoke very affectionately of her and I still have a photo of
                her.
                Do you have any info on Jane's grandfather Alexander Finnie (1804-
                1865 ) or his wife Margaret Craib? Regards Sue


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              • ssn_richmond
                Hi Ray Thanks for the interesting info on the 1841 census. It explains why two of my ancestors who are described as 55 and 40 may not actually have an age gap
                Message 7 of 12 , Jul 29, 2006
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                  Hi Ray

                  Thanks for the interesting info on the 1841 census. It explains why
                  two of my ancestors who are described as 55 and 40 may not actually
                  have an age gap of 15 years. It could in theory be just over 10 which
                  seems more probable.
                  Unfortunately I could not find my Webster family in the 1851 census so
                  I am unable to double check.I'll never know if Williamina was a twin!

                  Regards
                  Sue
                • Alison Kennedy
                  Hi Sue, Alexander Finnie (bc 1786 - died 1843, Longside) & wife Margaret Craib (bc 1800, Longside - died 1851, Longside) married 13 March 1819, Longside. I am
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jul 29, 2006
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                    Hi Sue,

                    Alexander Finnie (bc 1786 - died 1843, Longside) & wife Margaret Craib (bc 1800, Longside - died 1851, Longside) married 13 March 1819, Longside. I am aware of twelve children which I also have information on - what or how much information do you need or already have. I was in contact a few years ago with someone in Canada who was also linked to this family.

                    Alison

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: ssn_richmond
                    To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 12:36 PM
                    Subject: [Peterhead] Silmeen/Salmeen


                    Hi Catherine and Alison

                    Thanks for all your hard work - much appreciated.

                    Catherine,thanks for the extra info on the Silmeen family.Have you
                    any idea about why they might have moved to Aberdeen in 1890 and
                    then on to South Shields?
                    I would like to think that that was my Williamina Webster,and her
                    mother's name was certainly Mary (Wallace) but from her Death
                    Certificate she would seem to have been born in 1832 which would
                    have made her 9 in 1841.Perhaps it was a mistake in the census? It
                    would seem more reasonable to have children of 12 9 and 6 rather
                    than 12 6 and 6. I'll have to do more research!

                    Alison, I was really interested to hear about your Finnie
                    connection.The Jane Finnie you mentioned who married John Silmeen
                    later married George Moffatt and was my father's "Granny Moffatt".He
                    always spoke very affectionately of her and I still have a photo of
                    her.
                    Do you have any info on Jane's grandfather Alexander Finnie (1804-
                    1865 ) or his wife Margaret Craib? Regards Sue





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Ray Hennessy
                    Sue Richmond wrote: Thanks for the interesting info on the 1841 census. It explains why two of my ancestors who are described as 55 and 40 may not actually
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jul 30, 2006
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                      Sue Richmond wrote:

                      Thanks for the interesting info on the 1841 census. It explains why
                      two of my ancestors who are described as 55 and 40 may not actually
                      have an age gap of 15 years. It could in theory be just over 10 which
                      seems more probable.
                      _____________________________________________________________

                      Hi Sue

                      Allowing for the vagaries of age-recording in the 1841 Census, "large" differences in the ages of spouses are not so unusual. There could be a number of reasons.

                      In our straightforward tree we have one man marrying in 1839 at the age of 29, losing his wife [?in childbirth?] and then remarrying in 1849 to a woman over 15 years his junior. Another man married at least three times: the last was in 1848 when he was 61 and his wife was 40. Despite their advanced ages, they had three children in the next 5 years.

                      We are fairly sure the reason these widowers, both Agricultural Servants, remarried within a year was to have someone to look after the bairns [as well as all the other benefits of marital bliss, of course]. Similarly any young widow with babies to care for would get married again as soon as possible if she was not to be a burden on her family or the Parish Poor Fund.

                      Another possible reason for an age difference would be where the man was determined to be responsible and make a living for himself before taking a wife. As this could take till he was in his 30s, or later, and he would want to have children, the wife would likely be much younger than him. [I knew of a 30-year-old teacher in Shropshire in 1970 who was proposed to by a 50 year old bachelor farmer by this reasoning. She said No!]

                      We have a case in the tree where the wife was over 10 years older than the husband but haven't been able to work out what the rationale was. True love??

                      All things are possible and some of them are reasonable too!

                      Best wishes

                      Ray Hennessy



                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: ssn_richmond
                      To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 4:20 PM
                      Subject: [Peterhead] Silmeen/Salmeen


                      Hi Ray

                      Thanks for the interesting info on the 1841 census. It explains why
                      two of my ancestors who are described as 55 and 40 may not actually
                      have an age gap of 15 years. It could in theory be just over 10 which
                      seems more probable.
                      Unfortunately I could not find my Webster family in the 1851 census so
                      I am unable to double check.I'll never know if Williamina was a twin!

                      Regards
                      Sue





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • ssn_richmond
                      Hi Ray Thanks for the interesting information about the 1841 Census.It helps to put meat on the bones Do you know about the naming customs of Scottish
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jul 30, 2006
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                        Hi Ray

                        Thanks for the interesting information about the 1841 Census.It
                        helps to put "meat" on the "bones"
                        Do you know about the naming customs of Scottish children?
                        Was the firstborn traditionally named after the parents or the
                        maternal or paternal grandparents or was it just personal preference?

                        Thanks
                        Sue








                        --- In Peterhead@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Hennessy" <ray@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Sue Richmond wrote:
                        >
                        > Thanks for the interesting info on the 1841 census. It explains
                        why
                        > two of my ancestors who are described as 55 and 40 may not
                        actually
                        > have an age gap of 15 years. It could in theory be just over 10
                        which
                        > seems more probable.
                        > _____________________________________________________________
                        >
                        > Hi Sue
                        >
                        > Allowing for the vagaries of age-recording in the 1841
                        Census, "large" differences in the ages of spouses are not so
                        unusual. There could be a number of reasons.
                        >
                        > In our straightforward tree we have one man marrying in 1839 at
                        the age of 29, losing his wife [?in childbirth?] and then remarrying
                        in 1849 to a woman over 15 years his junior. Another man married at
                        least three times: the last was in 1848 when he was 61 and his wife
                        was 40. Despite their advanced ages, they had three children in the
                        next 5 years.
                        >
                        > We are fairly sure the reason these widowers, both Agricultural
                        Servants, remarried within a year was to have someone to look after
                        the bairns [as well as all the other benefits of marital bliss, of
                        course]. Similarly any young widow with babies to care for would
                        get married again as soon as possible if she was not to be a burden
                        on her family or the Parish Poor Fund.
                        >
                        > Another possible reason for an age difference would be where the
                        man was determined to be responsible and make a living for himself
                        before taking a wife. As this could take till he was in his 30s, or
                        later, and he would want to have children, the wife would likely be
                        much younger than him. [I knew of a 30-year-old teacher in
                        Shropshire in 1970 who was proposed to by a 50 year old bachelor
                        farmer by this reasoning. She said No!]
                        >
                        > We have a case in the tree where the wife was over 10 years older
                        than the husband but haven't been able to work out what the
                        rationale was. True love??
                        >
                        > All things are possible and some of them are reasonable too!
                        >
                        > Best wishes
                        >
                        > Ray Hennessy
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: ssn_richmond
                        > To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 4:20 PM
                        > Subject: [Peterhead] Silmeen/Salmeen
                        >
                        >
                        > Hi Ray
                        >
                        > Thanks for the interesting info on the 1841 census. It explains
                        why
                        > two of my ancestors who are described as 55 and 40 may not
                        actually
                        > have an age gap of 15 years. It could in theory be just over 10
                        which
                        > seems more probable.
                        > Unfortunately I could not find my Webster family in the 1851
                        census so
                        > I am unable to double check.I'll never know if Williamina was a
                        twin!
                        >
                        > Regards
                        > Sue
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Lexi Clark
                        One Common Naming Pattern 1. First son: father s father 2. Second son: mother s father 3. Third son: father 4. Fourth son: father s oldest brother 5. Fifth
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jul 30, 2006
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                          One Common Naming Pattern
                          1. First son: father's father

                          2. Second son: mother's father

                          3. Third son: father

                          4. Fourth son: father's oldest brother

                          5. Fifth son: father's second oldest brother or mother's oldest brother

                          6. First daughter: mother's mother.

                          7. Second daughter: father's mother.

                          8. Third daughter: mother

                          9. Fourth daughter: mother's oldest sister

                          10. Fifth daughter: mother's second oldest sister or father's oldest sister.


                          Lexi


                          From: "ssn_richmond" <susanrichmond2000@...>
                          Reply-To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                          To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [Peterhead] Re: Silmeen/Salmeen
                          Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 14:12:27 -0000

                          Hi Ray

                          Thanks for the interesting information about the 1841 Census.It
                          helps to put "meat" on the "bones"
                          Do you know about the naming customs of Scottish children?
                          Was the firstborn traditionally named after the parents or the
                          maternal or paternal grandparents or was it just personal preference?

                          Thanks
                          Sue








                          --- In Peterhead@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Hennessy" <ray@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Sue Richmond wrote:
                          >
                          > Thanks for the interesting info on the 1841 census. It explains
                          why
                          > two of my ancestors who are described as 55 and 40 may not
                          actually
                          > have an age gap of 15 years. It could in theory be just over 10
                          which
                          > seems more probable.
                          > _____________________________________________________________
                          >
                          > Hi Sue
                          >
                          > Allowing for the vagaries of age-recording in the 1841
                          Census, "large" differences in the ages of spouses are not so
                          unusual. There could be a number of reasons.
                          >
                          > In our straightforward tree we have one man marrying in 1839 at
                          the age of 29, losing his wife [?in childbirth?] and then remarrying
                          in 1849 to a woman over 15 years his junior. Another man married at
                          least three times: the last was in 1848 when he was 61 and his wife
                          was 40. Despite their advanced ages, they had three children in the
                          next 5 years.
                          >
                          > We are fairly sure the reason these widowers, both Agricultural
                          Servants, remarried within a year was to have someone to look after
                          the bairns [as well as all the other benefits of marital bliss, of
                          course]. Similarly any young widow with babies to care for would
                          get married again as soon as possible if she was not to be a burden
                          on her family or the Parish Poor Fund.
                          >
                          > Another possible reason for an age difference would be where the
                          man was determined to be responsible and make a living for himself
                          before taking a wife. As this could take till he was in his 30s, or
                          later, and he would want to have children, the wife would likely be
                          much younger than him. [I knew of a 30-year-old teacher in
                          Shropshire in 1970 who was proposed to by a 50 year old bachelor
                          farmer by this reasoning. She said No!]
                          >
                          > We have a case in the tree where the wife was over 10 years older
                          than the husband but haven't been able to work out what the
                          rationale was. True love??
                          >
                          > All things are possible and some of them are reasonable too!
                          >
                          > Best wishes
                          >
                          > Ray Hennessy
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: ssn_richmond
                          > To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 4:20 PM
                          > Subject: [Peterhead] Silmeen/Salmeen
                          >
                          >
                          > Hi Ray
                          >
                          > Thanks for the interesting info on the 1841 census. It explains
                          why
                          > two of my ancestors who are described as 55 and 40 may not
                          actually
                          > have an age gap of 15 years. It could in theory be just over 10
                          which
                          > seems more probable.
                          > Unfortunately I could not find my Webster family in the 1851
                          census so
                          > I am unable to double check.I'll never know if Williamina was a
                          twin!
                          >
                          > Regards
                          > Sue
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • Ray Hennessy
                          Sue Richmond wrote: Do you know about the naming customs of Scottish children? Was the firstborn traditionally named after the parents or the maternal or
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jul 30, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Sue Richmond wrote:

                            Do you know about the naming customs of Scottish children?
                            Was the firstborn traditionally named after the parents or the
                            maternal or paternal grandparents or was it just personal preference?
                            ___________________________________________________________

                            Hi Sue

                            Rather than repeat the Pattern here, you can see the detail on my website FAQ11, at http://www.whatsinaname.net/faq.html#11

                            There are also some links to other sites with the same information on my Links page.

                            But, take care. While the use of the Pattern was quite common across Scotland but it was by no means set in concrete. Many people either ignored it or used their own version. In other words, the Pattern is a guide which might help you unscramble some complex local family groups but won't by itself "prove" relationships.

                            Good luck

                            Ray

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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