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Re: Marion subject Auchleuchries

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  • mlarooij
    Hi Catherine, Many thanks! Looks like something happened in between David & John. I don t understand the shades of meaning of these sasine terms (heir of
    Message 1 of 3 , Jul 13, 2006
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      Hi Catherine,
      Many thanks! Looks like something happened in between David & John.
      I don't understand the shades of meaning of these sasine terms (heir
      of conquest, etc) but no doubt will in time. I have a reference to
      John being "of Leask" prior to his being "of Auquharnie" & he had a
      brother George. the solution looks so close but just can't get there!
      Nor do I quite see the Auchleuchries bit, isn't it a differnt place.
      No wonder we are all confused when a reference to one place suddenly
      becomes, or seems to become, a reference to another.
      Marion

      --- In Peterhead@yahoogroups.com, "Cci" <cci@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Marion,
      > I found this.
      > Good luck,
      > Catherine
      >
      > Either the creditors of Alexander Forbes of Ludquharn or the
      purchaser of Ludquharn, Sir John Guthrie, would appear to have paid
      in 1715 double Cess for the lands which had belonged in 1696 to Dr.
      Hay, heritor, Edinburgh. They were part of the Erroll property till
      sold early in the 18th century. John Hay, burgess of Aberdeen, had
      been served heir on 05 October 1653, as 'heir of conquest (as an
      elder) to George Hay of Aucharnie, his immediate younger brother, in
      Earlseat and Aquharnie, with the penicles thereof".
      >
      > Burial, Edinburgh
      > Hay, Sir David, Doctor, his son, Mr. David, Fowlis tomb, 17 Feb
      1693
      > Hay, Doctor, his lady, Dame Agnes Fleming, 17 Nov 1693
      >
      > Marriage Edingburgh
      > Hay, Mr David, doctor of medicine, Agnes Fleming 19th July 1655
      >
      > Burial Edinburgh
      > Hay, Mr David, doctor of medicine, herss, warant
      > Fowlis tomb, 09 Jan 1699
      >
      > Marriage Edinburgh
      > Kerr, Andrew, eldest lawful son of Sir William Kerr of Greenhead,
      knight, baronet, Mrs Helen Hay daughter of Sir David Hay, doctor of
      medicine, 22 May 1698 m 11 June 1698
      >
      > Burial Edinburgh
      > Hay, Sir David, Doctor of medicine, his daughter Christian
      > Fowlis tomb 20 May 1697
      >
      >
      > George Hay, son of Thomas Hay of Sandend and Agnes Gavin, was
      inheritor in 1696, with Isobel Leask, his spouce. The widow still
      had her liferent in 1715, but Alexander Gordon was the owner (the
      brother in law of Patrick Gordon of Auchleuchries and purchaser of
      that estate in 1722.
      >
      > In 1696 it was John Gordon of Auchleuchries, Elizabeth Grant, his
      lady, and Patrick Gordon, his son, Elizabeth was the daughter of
      William Grant of Crichie, and had sasine on the lands and manor of
      Auchleuchries in 1702, with Gilbert, John, Patrick, Margaret, Ann
      and Mary, her children.
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Ray Hennessy
      ... _______________________________________________________ Hi Marion I would guess that the land of Auchleuchries was the overriding estate that covered all
      Message 2 of 3 , Jul 13, 2006
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        Marion wrote:

        > Nor do I quite see the Auchleuchries bit, isn't it a different place?
        _______________________________________________________

        Hi Marion

        I would guess that the land of Auchleuchries was the overriding estate that covered all the area, judging by the 1702 comment : "... the lands and manor of Auchleuchries ...". This sounds a fairly up-market description.

        The early arrangement of renting lands was a multi-layered hierarchy. The land "belonged" to the King. He graciously allowed his favoured nobles to have certain areas - usually County-wide. They lived off the rent they got from major landowners. These then rented out smaller parcels to sub-tenant farmers and all these people had crofters who brought raw land into cultivation and paid their rent by produce or labour for the next level up. Below this was the Ag Lab hoard who were usually contracted for 6-monthly periods [= feeing, hence the "Feeing Fairs"], sometimes with accommodation provided. Some Census returns are full of references to "Outhouses" attached to farms. these were the workers and, occasionally, their families.

        All a somewhat feudal system but it worked in Aberdeenshire because the Earls were, in general, very considerate for their tenants and workers - after all, their income depended on the system working!! It continued for well over a century after the Industrial Revolution made investment in factories a paying concern - and still functions middling well in some areas today. Not that a farmer would ever admit it!

        Best wishes

        Ray

        PS Sorry I don't have the incredible sources that Catherine can call on to give chapter & verse.

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: mlarooij
        To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:18 PM
        Subject: [Peterhead] Re: Marion subject Auchleuchries


        Hi Catherine,
        Many thanks! Looks like something happened in between David & John.
        I don't understand the shades of meaning of these sasine terms (heir
        of conquest, etc) but no doubt will in time. I have a reference to
        John being "of Leask" prior to his being "of Auquharnie" & he had a
        brother George. the solution looks so close but just can't get there!
        Nor do I quite see the Auchleuchries bit, isn't it a differnt place.
        No wonder we are all confused when a reference to one place suddenly
        becomes, or seems to become, a reference to another.
        Marion

        --- In Peterhead@yahoogroups.com, "Cci" <cci@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Marion,
        > I found this.
        > Good luck,
        > Catherine
        >
        > Either the creditors of Alexander Forbes of Ludquharn or the
        purchaser of Ludquharn, Sir John Guthrie, would appear to have paid
        in 1715 double Cess for the lands which had belonged in 1696 to Dr.
        Hay, heritor, Edinburgh. They were part of the Erroll property till
        sold early in the 18th century. John Hay, burgess of Aberdeen, had
        been served heir on 05 October 1653, as 'heir of conquest (as an
        elder) to George Hay of Aucharnie, his immediate younger brother, in
        Earlseat and Aquharnie, with the penicles thereof".
        >
        > Burial, Edinburgh
        > Hay, Sir David, Doctor, his son, Mr. David, Fowlis tomb, 17 Feb
        1693
        > Hay, Doctor, his lady, Dame Agnes Fleming, 17 Nov 1693
        >
        > Marriage Edingburgh
        > Hay, Mr David, doctor of medicine, Agnes Fleming 19th July 1655
        >
        > Burial Edinburgh
        > Hay, Mr David, doctor of medicine, herss, warant
        > Fowlis tomb, 09 Jan 1699
        >
        > Marriage Edinburgh
        > Kerr, Andrew, eldest lawful son of Sir William Kerr of Greenhead,
        knight, baronet, Mrs Helen Hay daughter of Sir David Hay, doctor of
        medicine, 22 May 1698 m 11 June 1698
        >
        > Burial Edinburgh
        > Hay, Sir David, Doctor of medicine, his daughter Christian
        > Fowlis tomb 20 May 1697
        >
        >
        > George Hay, son of Thomas Hay of Sandend and Agnes Gavin, was
        inheritor in 1696, with Isobel Leask, his spouce. The widow still
        had her liferent in 1715, but Alexander Gordon was the owner (the
        brother in law of Patrick Gordon of Auchleuchries and purchaser of
        that estate in 1722.
        >
        > In 1696 it was John Gordon of Auchleuchries, Elizabeth Grant, his
        lady, and Patrick Gordon, his son, Elizabeth was the daughter of
        William Grant of Crichie, and had sasine on the lands and manor of
        Auchleuchries in 1702, with Gilbert, John, Patrick, Margaret, Ann
        and Mary, her children.
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >





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