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Re: Auqharney and Auchleuchries

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  • mlarooij
    Thanks Ray, Every little helps, if at least to sort out the mental picture..all I know if that a Sir David HAY, a doctor, was served heir to Auquharneypriot to
    Message 1 of 22 , Jul 12, 2006
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      Thanks Ray,
      Every little helps, if at least to sort out the mental picture..all
      I know if that a Sir David HAY, a doctor, was served heir to
      Auquharneypriot to 1696. He was then in Edinburgh though. Unless he
      had a previous marriage he had only daus. How the John HAY I am
      interested in got to take possession I have not discovered. Or the
      beginning date but until the mid 1750s. The current House might be a
      much later date.
      Marion

      --- In Peterhead@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Hennessy" <ray@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Marion
      >
      > Auquharney House doesn't show on Thomson's 1832 map. Although he
      was unreliable in naming locations and the routes of roads, he
      generally seems to have got major country houses right [with a
      pretty little picture of a stylised house]. There is nothing on his
      map between Oldtown/Earlseat and what is now Mains of Auquharney
      which shows a number of scattered buildings, labelled
      as "Aquharnies". This generally seems to be his way of showing
      crofts and cottages scattered over a farm with no attempt at a
      realistic portrayal of actual buildings.
      >
      > On the other hand, Thomson places Earlseat south of Oldtown which
      is the reverse of the relationship of their present locations!! So
      while Thomson suggests that Auquharney House is post 1832, it is a
      bit risky to assume this to be "fact". It may be that the main farm
      not the House was the site you are looking for - but it may not!!
      >
      > Confusing!! Sorry, but it illustrates how we have to be careful
      when trying to "locate" our ancestral homes.
      >
      > Ray
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: mlarooij
      > To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 1:07 AM
      > Subject: [Peterhead] Re: Auqharney and Auchleuchries
      >
      >
      >
      > I am confused too, but then I always have been.. I am interested
      in the
      > Auquharney House which was there c1750. Is that the one which is
      now a
      > nursing home? Or was another built? I have tried to find a photo
      on the
      > web with no luck. Thanks to this correspondence I am somewhat
      wiser!
      >
      > Marion
      >
      > --- In Peterhead@yahoogroups.com, MARGIE DAVIDSON
      <margiedavidson@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > .
      > >
      > > Hi Ray,
      > >
      > > Now I am confused! not an altogether unusual occurence these
      days. If
      > I travel from Hatton up the back road to the main Fraserburgh
      road then
      > I turn left for Ardallie- which makes the mills north- I think.
      However
      > Ardallie is not really a village - there is a pub and a couple of
      > houses- it is more of a district as Ardallie school is on the
      main
      > Fraserburgh road but north of the pub.
      > > The mill opposite the entrance to Auquharney House nursing
      home can be
      > clearly seen - I am surprised that it is listed as mill of
      Auchleuchries
      > as that is the name of the district on the other side of the main
      > Fraserburgh road. Waukmill Cottage is still there and I presume
      that is
      > where the mill was although I doubt it is the same mill as
      Waukmill,
      > Auchmacoy as Auchmacoy estate is further away on the other side
      of the
      > main Peterhead road. Auchmacoy House is the home of the head of
      the
      > Buchan clan - not sure who that is nowadays but it is still a
      large
      > productive estate set in a beautiful area - lot of shooting game
      and
      > fishing. You can't drive through the road from the turn off to
      > Collieston to the new roundabout at Ellon without seeing at
      least half a
      > dozen pheasant. But I digress. On my return home I will ensure
      that I
      > check my history notes then drive up to the mills and take some
      > photographs.
      > >
      > > I_,_._,___
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Margie
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Ray Hennessy
      ... Auquharneypriot to 1696. He was then in Edinburgh though. Unless he had a previous marriage he had only daus. How the John HAY I am interested in got to
      Message 2 of 22 , Jul 12, 2006
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        Marion [mlarooij] wrote:

        > I know if that a Sir David HAY, a doctor, was served heir to
        Auquharneypriot to 1696. He was then in Edinburgh though. Unless he
        had a previous marriage he had only daus. How the John HAY I am
        interested in got to take possession I have not discovered.

        Hi Marion

        Could John have been Sir David's nephew? With inheritance limited to the male line, this would be [for those dear dead days] a natural succession, much as we might regret it today! It might be worth digging back to Sir David's siblings?!?! ;-))

        Ray

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • mlarooij
        Hi Ray, I have tried to find who David;s parents were but there are a number of Davids & haven t placed him yet. Or John. I agree, likely there is a nephew or
        Message 3 of 22 , Jul 12, 2006
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          Hi Ray,
          I have tried to find who David;s parents were but there are a number
          of Davids & haven't placed him yet. Or John. I agree, likely there
          is a nephew or somesuch relationship. I shouldn't think estates were
          bought at that time, at least, not in this case as clearly they are
          some sort of family connection. I am waiting for a sasines disc
          also.. But I have found some indication the girls inherited, so not
          sure what happened then, maybe they assigned it. There is also no
          sign of John's marriage, or the christenings of his children. Not a
          co-operative guy.

          --- In Peterhead@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Hennessy" <ray@...> wrote:
          >
          > Marion [mlarooij] wrote:
          >
          > > I know if that a Sir David HAY, a doctor, was served heir to
          > Auquharneypriot to 1696. He was then in Edinburgh though. Unless
          he
          > had a previous marriage he had only daus. How the John HAY I am
          > interested in got to take possession I have not discovered.
          >
          > Hi Marion
          >
          > Could John have been Sir David's nephew? With inheritance limited
          to the male line, this would be [for those dear dead days] a natural
          succession, much as we might regret it today! It might be worth
          digging back to Sir David's siblings?!?! ;-))
          >
          > Ray
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Ray Hennessy
          Hi Marion Yes there are well documented cases of families in the nobility passing estates down through the female line but they were the exception. Your case
          Message 4 of 22 , Jul 13, 2006
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            Hi Marion

            Yes there are well documented cases of families in the nobility passing estates down through the female line but they were the exception. Your case looks like it might a male inheritance. However I've just thought of the other possibility that his eldest daughter married a bloke who agreed to change his name to hers [it is still legally permitted!!] and the estate stayed in the family name. I seem to remember there was some such arrangement in the history of the Spencer line [details lost in the dusty recesses of my brain cell].

            And doncha just love those uncoopertive ancestors who didn't register their life-events? Being a "Sir", there may be some old tome with details of him and his family hidden away somewhere. Keep trying, and good luck

            Ray


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: mlarooij
            To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 2:57 AM
            Subject: [Peterhead] Re: Auqharney and Auchleuchries


            Hi Ray,
            I have tried to find who David;s parents were but there are a number
            of Davids & haven't placed him yet. Or John. I agree, likely there
            is a nephew or somesuch relationship. I shouldn't think estates were
            bought at that time, at least, not in this case as clearly they are
            some sort of family connection. I am waiting for a sasines disc
            also.. But I have found some indication the girls inherited, so not
            sure what happened then, maybe they assigned it. There is also no
            sign of John's marriage, or the christenings of his children. Not a
            co-operative guy.

            --- In Peterhead@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Hennessy" <ray@...> wrote:
            >
            > Marion [mlarooij] wrote:
            >
            > > I know if that a Sir David HAY, a doctor, was served heir to
            > Auquharneypriot to 1696. He was then in Edinburgh though. Unless
            he
            > had a previous marriage he had only daus. How the John HAY I am
            > interested in got to take possession I have not discovered.
            >
            > Hi Marion
            >
            > Could John have been Sir David's nephew? With inheritance limited
            to the male line, this would be [for those dear dead days] a natural
            succession, much as we might regret it today! It might be worth
            digging back to Sir David's siblings?!?! ;-))
            >
            > Ray
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Margaret Hector
            A big thanks to all those amazing people who go to great lenghts to help paint pictures for me. The maps have been a great help and the accompanying
            Message 5 of 22 , Jul 13, 2006
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              A big thanks to all those amazing people who go to great lenghts to help paint pictures for me. The maps have been a great help and the accompanying information most useful.
              The discussion going on about the Hays is also fascinating.
              Our James Hay was born 1813-1815 and according to the Census, in Elgin. He was the son of James Hay and Euphemia Jamieson. I have yet to find where these people originated.
              As far as a marriage in 1910, I dont know if it was one of ours. I do know there was a John Hay who was born in 1854 at New Deer. In the 1881 census he was unmarried an living in Aberdeen. I don't know anything esle about him.
              Cheers
              Margaret



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jen
              Hi, Whilst we are on the subject of Hays, please can I add my interest in this name just in case anyone knows anything about my lot. I have an Alexander Hay
              Message 6 of 22 , Jul 13, 2006
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                Hi,

                Whilst we are on the subject of Hays, please can I add my interest in this name just in case anyone knows anything about my lot.

                I have an Alexander Hay who married Isabella Alexander in Peterhead in 1810. They had at least two daughters, Margaret and Isabella.
                I know that Alexander was a handloom weaver, in Cruden and that Isabella died in 1876 at Blackhill, Cruden at the age of 90. Must have been all that herring and oatmeal!

                I also have Daniels, Robertsons and Craigheads from the Cruden area so would welcome any information on them.

                Cheers,

                Jen



                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Margaret Hector
                To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 12:29 PM
                Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Mill of Auquharney


                A big thanks to all those amazing people who go to great lenghts to help paint pictures for me. The maps have been a great help and the accompanying information most useful.
                The discussion going on about the Hays is also fascinating.
                Our James Hay was born 1813-1815 and according to the Census, in Elgin. He was the son of James Hay and Euphemia Jamieson. I have yet to find where these people originated.
                As far as a marriage in 1910, I dont know if it was one of ours. I do know there was a John Hay who was born in 1854 at New Deer. In the 1881 census he was unmarried an living in Aberdeen. I don't know anything esle about him.
                Cheers
                Margaret

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Cci
                Hi Jen, You might already have this info. Isabella and Margaret were at the same address. 1841 census Isabella Hay age 50 occ Lab born abt 1791 address
                Message 7 of 22 , Jul 14, 2006
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                  Hi Jen,
                  You might already have this info.
                  Isabella and Margaret were at the same address.

                  1841 census
                  Isabella Hay
                  age 50
                  occ Lab
                  born abt 1791
                  address Blackhill

                  Margaret Hay
                  age 25
                  born abt 1816
                  address Blackhill

                  What christian names go with your Daniels, Robertsons and Craigheads, and dates.

                  Thanks,
                  Catherine





                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Jen
                  To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 6:36 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Mill of Auquharney


                  Hi,

                  Whilst we are on the subject of Hays, please can I add my interest in this name just in case anyone knows anything about my lot.

                  I have an Alexander Hay who married Isabella Alexander in Peterhead in 1810. They had at least two daughters, Margaret and Isabella.
                  I know that Alexander was a handloom weaver, in Cruden and that Isabella died in 1876 at Blackhill, Cruden at the age of 90. Must have been all that herring and oatmeal!

                  I also have Daniels, Robertsons and Craigheads from the Cruden area so would welcome any information on them.

                  Cheers,

                  Jen

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Margaret Hector
                  To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 12:29 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Mill of Auquharney

                  A big thanks to all those amazing people who go to great lenghts to help paint pictures for me. The maps have been a great help and the accompanying information most useful.
                  The discussion going on about the Hays is also fascinating.
                  Our James Hay was born 1813-1815 and according to the Census, in Elgin. He was the son of James Hay and Euphemia Jamieson. I have yet to find where these people originated.
                  As far as a marriage in 1910, I dont know if it was one of ours. I do know there was a John Hay who was born in 1854 at New Deer. In the 1881 census he was unmarried an living in Aberdeen. I don't know anything esle about him.
                  Cheers
                  Margaret

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                  No virus found in this incoming message.
                  Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                  Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.0/388 - Release Date: 7/13/2006


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Jen
                  Hi, Thanks, I didn t have that one as I haven t had time to devote to research since the 1841 cenus went online. Or, to be honest, because I have been finding
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jul 14, 2006
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                    Hi,

                    Thanks, I didn't have that one as I haven't had time to devote to research since the 1841 cenus went online. Or, to be honest, because I have been finding a friend's Westmorland ancestry instead of doing my own.

                    My Daniels go back to John Daniel who married Janet Robertson in 1763 in Cruden. He was a hand loom weaver. Their son, William, was born in 1772 in Port Errol and married Christian Robertson, born 1784, Cruden and daughter of James Robertson and Elizabeth (surname something illegible on Christian's death certificate). So I have two lots of Robertsons who may or may not have been brother and sister.

                    William Daniel ( occupation shoemaker) and Christian had a son, James, born 1810c and he married Margaret Hay. He was a farmer and he died 1892 at Willow Cottage, Coldwell, Cruden.

                    James Daniel and Margaret Hay had a daughter, Margaret who married Joseph Milne, which is almost as tricky to handle as my selection of John and William Smiths. The Milne branch also gives me Birnie, Mitchel, Walker and McKenzie mostly in the Strichen, Lonmay, Tyrie areas.

                    My Craigheads start ( well obviously not, but in my tree it's as far as I have gone) with Margaret Craighead who married Charles Alexander 1775, Cruden. Charles was a fisherman but that's absolutely all I know about them and that only because of their daughter Isabella living to such a grand old age and to the wonderful Scottish system of naming both parents and occupations on a death certificate. I can't tell you how much I wish the English did likewise.

                    Is that more than enough information? I'd love to hear from anyone who may be connected to these families.

                    Regards,

                    Jen

                    PS. There is something odd going on in the world - it is hot in Cumbria. That can't be right.




                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Cci
                    To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 12:49 PM
                    Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Mill of Auquharney


                    Hi Jen,
                    You might already have this info.
                    Isabella and Margaret were at the same address.

                    1841 census
                    Isabella Hay
                    age 50
                    occ Lab
                    born abt 1791
                    address Blackhill

                    Margaret Hay
                    age 25
                    born abt 1816
                    address Blackhill

                    What christian names go with your Daniels, Robertsons and Craigheads, and dates.

                    Thanks,
                    Catherine

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Jen
                    To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 6:36 AM
                    Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Mill of Auquharney

                    Hi,

                    Whilst we are on the subject of Hays, please can I add my interest in this name just in case anyone knows anything about my lot.

                    I have an Alexander Hay who married Isabella Alexander in Peterhead in 1810. They had at least two daughters, Margaret and Isabella.
                    I know that Alexander was a handloom weaver, in Cruden and that Isabella died in 1876 at Blackhill, Cruden at the age of 90. Must have been all that herring and oatmeal!

                    I also have Daniels, Robertsons and Craigheads from the Cruden area so would welcome any information on them.

                    Cheers,

                    Jen

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Margaret Hector
                    To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 12:29 PM
                    Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Mill of Auquharney

                    A big thanks to all those amazing people who go to great lenghts to help paint pictures for me. The maps have been a great help and the accompanying information most useful.
                    The discussion going on about the Hays is also fascinating.
                    Our James Hay was born 1813-1815 and according to the Census, in Elgin. He was the son of James Hay and Euphemia Jamieson. I have yet to find where these people originated.
                    As far as a marriage in 1910, I dont know if it was one of ours. I do know there was a John Hay who was born in 1854 at New Deer. In the 1881 census he was unmarried an living in Aberdeen. I don't know anything esle about him.
                    Cheers
                    Margaret

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    ----------------------------------------------------------

                    No virus found in this incoming message.
                    Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                    Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.0/388 - Release Date: 7/13/2006

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Shell Leo
                    1.2.1 Isabella KELMAN Illegitimate son by George MILNE: 1.2.1.1 John Alexander Kelman MILNE bpt St Fergus 25 April 1846 m Margaret HUTCHESON 1 May 1870
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jul 14, 2006
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                      1.2.1 Isabella KELMAN



                      Illegitimate son by George MILNE:



                      1.2.1.1 John Alexander Kelman MILNE bpt St Fergus 25
                      April 1846

                      m Margaret HUTCHESON 1 May
                      1870 Crimond


                      .2.1.1 John Alexander Kelman MILNE m Margaret
                      MUTCHESON 1 May 1870
                      Crimond



                      1.2.1.1.1 Robert HUTCHESON b 14 May 1868 Crimond
                      [illegitimate son of
                      Margaret HUTCHESON & unnamed father, known as Robert
                      MILNE]



                      1.2.1.1.2 John Kelman MILNE or HUTCHESON b 23 April
                      1870 Crimond



                      1.2.1.1.3 George Brown MILNE b 9 July 1873 Peterhead



                      1.2.1.1.4 Alexandrina MILNE born c. 1877 Peterhead



                      1.2.1.1.5 James MILNE born c. 1879 Inverurie



                      1851 census: Keyhead, St Fergus

                      John Kelman 60 b Crimond, farmer 4 ac & ag lab

                      wife Mary Kelman 50 b Cruden

                      daur Jean Kelman 13 b St Fergus

                      son James Kelman 9 b St Fergus

                      gson John A.K. Milne 5 b St Fergus

                      881 census: 67 West High Street, Inverurie

                      John A.K. Milne 35 shoemaker b Crimond

                      wife Margaret Milne 35 b Crimond

                      son Robert Milne 12 scholar b Crimond

                      son John Milne 10 scholar b Crimond

                      son George Milne 7 scholar b Peterhead

                      daur Alexandrina Milne 3 b Peterhead

                      son James Milne 1 b Inverurie


                      --- Jen <gannet@...> wrote:

                      > Hi,
                      >
                      > Thanks, I didn't have that one as I haven't had time
                      > to devote to research since the 1841 cenus went
                      > online. Or, to be honest, because I have been
                      > finding a friend's Westmorland ancestry instead of
                      > doing my own.
                      >
                      > My Daniels go back to John Daniel who married Janet
                      > Robertson in 1763 in Cruden. He was a hand loom
                      > weaver. Their son, William, was born in 1772 in Port
                      > Errol and married Christian Robertson, born 1784,
                      > Cruden and daughter of James Robertson and Elizabeth
                      > (surname something illegible on Christian's death
                      > certificate). So I have two lots of Robertsons who
                      > may or may not have been brother and sister.
                      >
                      > William Daniel ( occupation shoemaker) and Christian
                      > had a son, James, born 1810c and he married Margaret
                      > Hay. He was a farmer and he died 1892 at Willow
                      > Cottage, Coldwell, Cruden.
                      >
                      > James Daniel and Margaret Hay had a daughter,
                      > Margaret who married Joseph Milne, which is almost
                      > as tricky to handle as my selection of John and
                      > William Smiths. The Milne branch also gives me
                      > Birnie, Mitchel, Walker and McKenzie mostly in the
                      > Strichen, Lonmay, Tyrie areas.
                      >
                      > My Craigheads start ( well obviously not, but in my
                      > tree it's as far as I have gone) with Margaret
                      > Craighead who married Charles Alexander 1775,
                      > Cruden. Charles was a fisherman but that's
                      > absolutely all I know about them and that only
                      > because of their daughter Isabella living to such a
                      > grand old age and to the wonderful Scottish system
                      > of naming both parents and occupations on a death
                      > certificate. I can't tell you how much I wish the
                      > English did likewise.
                      >
                      > Is that more than enough information? I'd love to
                      > hear from anyone who may be connected to these
                      > families.
                      >
                      > Regards,
                      >
                      > Jen
                      >
                      > PS. There is something odd going on in the world -
                      > it is hot in Cumbria. That can't be right.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: Cci
                      > To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 12:49 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Mill of Auquharney
                      >
                      >
                      > Hi Jen,
                      > You might already have this info.
                      > Isabella and Margaret were at the same address.
                      >
                      > 1841 census
                      > Isabella Hay
                      > age 50
                      > occ Lab
                      > born abt 1791
                      > address Blackhill
                      >
                      > Margaret Hay
                      > age 25
                      > born abt 1816
                      > address Blackhill
                      >
                      > What christian names go with your Daniels,
                      > Robertsons and Craigheads, and dates.
                      >
                      > Thanks,
                      > Catherine
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: Jen
                      > To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 6:36 AM
                      > Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Mill of Auquharney
                      >
                      > Hi,
                      >
                      > Whilst we are on the subject of Hays, please can I
                      > add my interest in this name just in case anyone
                      > knows anything about my lot.
                      >
                      > I have an Alexander Hay who married Isabella
                      > Alexander in Peterhead in 1810. They had at least
                      > two daughters, Margaret and Isabella.
                      > I know that Alexander was a handloom weaver, in
                      > Cruden and that Isabella died in 1876 at Blackhill,
                      > Cruden at the age of 90. Must have been all that
                      > herring and oatmeal!
                      >
                      > I also have Daniels, Robertsons and Craigheads
                      > from the Cruden area so would welcome any
                      > information on them.
                      >
                      > Cheers,
                      >
                      > Jen
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: Margaret Hector
                      > To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 12:29 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Mill of Auquharney
                      >
                      > A big thanks to all those amazing people who go to
                      > great lenghts to help paint pictures for me. The
                      > maps have been a great help and the accompanying
                      > information most useful.
                      > The discussion going on about the Hays is also
                      > fascinating.
                      > Our James Hay was born 1813-1815 and according to
                      > the Census, in Elgin. He was the son of James Hay
                      > and Euphemia Jamieson. I have yet to find where
                      > these people originated.
                      > As far as a marriage in 1910, I dont know if it
                      > was one of ours. I do know there was a John Hay who
                      > was born in 1854 at New Deer. In the 1881 census he
                      > was unmarried an living in Aberdeen. I don't know
                      > anything esle about him.
                      > Cheers
                      > Margaret
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      > removed]
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      > removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      ----------------------------------------------------------
                      >
                      > No virus found in this incoming message.
                      > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                      > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.0/388 -
                      > Release Date: 7/13/2006
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      > removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      > removed]
                      >
                      >


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