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Re: [Peterhead] Imlay and Thom

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  • Ray Hennessy
    Margaret Hector wrote: I am interested in the Mill of Auquharney. On the night of the 1891 Census James HAY Head (76) Woolmill Manager, Jane HAY Wife (77), and
    Message 1 of 22 , Jul 10, 2006
      Margaret Hector wrote:

      I am interested in the Mill of Auquharney.

      On the night of the 1891 Census James HAY Head (76)
      Woolmill Manager, Jane HAY Wife (77), and their
      granddaughter, Elizabeth H RAMAGE (16) were living
      at Mill of Auquharney.

      Does anyone have any history of the Mill at that time?
      How far from Ardallie would the Mill be? Perhaps
      someone might even have some knowledge of this family!
      _________________________________________________

      Hi Margaret

      No knowledge of your family but you might like some map refs.

      Auquharney House is at OS Grid Ref NK023381 and Mains of
      Auquharney is at NK028366. There is a Mill about halfway
      between the two at NK021375. This is shown on multimap at
      http://tinyurl.com/grzfd which also shows the House and the Mains.
      This is all in Cruden parish.

      BUT this is on the Explorer map as "Mill of Auchleuchries", a
      reference to several places to the south & west. So I don't know
      if this is the Mill you seek. It's on the 1896 map but not named.

      Assuming it is the right one, it is about 1.5 miles south east of
      Ardallie just across the border with the parish of Old Deer.

      Hope this helps

      Best wishes

      Ray Hennessy
      www.whatsinaname.net

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • MARGIE DAVIDSON
      Hi, Don t have the information to hand as I am in the States at present however at one point the Water of Cruden drove 7 mills from the Mill of Auchleuchries
      Message 2 of 22 , Jul 10, 2006
        Hi,

        Don't have the information to hand as I am in the States at present however at one point the Water of Cruden drove 7 mills from the Mill of Auchleuchries to Nethermill in Cruden Bay.

        The Mill at Auqharney was a thread mill ( I think - but all my notes are at home - I will check on my return) and the building is now a dwelling house can stil be seen. It is situated just off the main Fraserburgh road about a mile north of Ardallie.It is on the right hand side of the road on a slight hill almost opposite the entrance to the nursing home at Auquharney.
        Mill of Auchleuchries was situated ( I think it was a carding mill but again I will check) on the other side of the main road almost in the bog of Auchleuchries howveer I am unsure how much of that building is still visible.






        Margie



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • David Davidson
        Here is a link to the Sharp family there is some interesting facts on the Auqharney area which is near Cruden Bay Best Regards Dave Davidson
        Message 3 of 22 , Jul 11, 2006
          Here is a link to the Sharp family there is some interesting facts on
          the Auqharney area which is near Cruden Bay

          Best Regards

          Dave Davidson


          MARGIE DAVIDSON wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > Hi,
          >
          > Don't have the information to hand as I am in the States at present
          > however at one point the Water of Cruden drove 7 mills from the Mill
          > of Auchleuchries to Nethermill in Cruden Bay.
          >
          > The Mill at Auqharney was a thread mill ( I think - but all my notes
          > are at home - I will check on my return) and the building is now a
          > dwelling house can stil be seen. It is situated just off the main
          > Fraserburgh road about a mile north of Ardallie.It is on the right
          > hand side of the road on a slight hill almost opposite the entrance to
          > the nursing home at Auquharney.
          > Mill of Auchleuchries was situated ( I think it was a carding mill but
          > again I will check) on the other side of the main road almost in the
          > bog of Auchleuchries howveer I am unsure how much of that building is
          > still visible.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Margie
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
        • David Davidson
          http://www.btinternet.com/~r.j.carson/Sharp/Sharp.htm
          Message 4 of 22 , Jul 11, 2006
            http://www.btinternet.com/~r.j.carson/Sharp/Sharp.htm


            David Davidson wrote:
            >
            > Here is a link to the Sharp family there is some interesting facts on
            > the Auqharney area which is near Cruden Bay
            >
            > Best Regards
            >
            > Dave Davidson
            >
            > MARGIE DAVIDSON wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Hi,
            > >
            > > Don't have the information to hand as I am in the States at present
            > > however at one point the Water of Cruden drove 7 mills from the Mill
            > > of Auchleuchries to Nethermill in Cruden Bay.
            > >
            > > The Mill at Auqharney was a thread mill ( I think - but all my notes
            > > are at home - I will check on my return) and the building is now a
            > > dwelling house can stil be seen. It is situated just off the main
            > > Fraserburgh road about a mile north of Ardallie.It is on the right
            > > hand side of the road on a slight hill almost opposite the entrance to
            > > the nursing home at Auquharney.
            > > Mill of Auchleuchries was situated ( I think it was a carding mill but
            > > again I will check) on the other side of the main road almost in the
            > > bog of Auchleuchries howveer I am unsure how much of that building is
            > > still visible.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Margie
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
          • Ray Hennessy
            Hi Margaret Further to my last, I ve had a look at Thomson s 1832 map. It is notoriously inaccurate but it does tend to get the burns and mills roughly in the
            Message 5 of 22 , Jul 11, 2006
              Hi Margaret

              Further to my last, I've had a look at Thomson's 1832 map. It is notoriously inaccurate but it does tend to get the burns and mills roughly in the right places.

              There is an area in NW Cruden called "Aquharnies" in the middle of which is a Mill symbol. I can't find it on the 1896 or 2002 maps. The mill opposite the place where Auquharney House has been built and another one to the west of it are at the two ends of a legend "Earlseat" but Thomson's legends are difficult to locate with any certainty.

              The mill opposite the Auquarnie House location is the one called "Mill of Auchleuchries" on the 2002 map. Of course the modern OS maps do occasionally - but rarely - mis-label places so it will need Margie to revisit the area when she returns. There is a Waulkmill - presumably Margie Davidson's carding mill - just a few hundred yards west of Auquharney House on the 2002 map, which is the location of Thomson's westerly mill..

              These places are all about a mile or so south to south-east of Ardallie on the 2002 map - not north of it. However, I don't know the area at all so there may be another Ardillie around that I can't identify. It's a bit hard from 600 miles away!!

              I can send you further locating map refs if you need them.

              Best wishes

              Ray

              PS Do remember that places can change their names - and place-names can change their locations - over the passage of time. So what is known by one name today could have been a quite different place or name back in the 19th century or earlier. In our project on Banffshire placenames we are finding quite a lot of such migrations, sometimes over distances of a mile or more.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • MARGIE DAVIDSON
              . Hi Ray, Now I am confused! not an altogether unusual occurence these days. If I travel from Hatton up the back road to the main Fraserburgh road then I turn
              Message 6 of 22 , Jul 11, 2006
                .

                Hi Ray,

                Now I am confused! not an altogether unusual occurence these days. If I travel from Hatton up the back road to the main Fraserburgh road then I turn left for Ardallie- which makes the mills north- I think. However Ardallie is not really a village - there is a pub and a couple of houses- it is more of a district as Ardallie school is on the main Fraserburgh road but north of the pub.
                The mill opposite the entrance to Auquharney House nursing home can be clearly seen - I am surprised that it is listed as mill of Auchleuchries as that is the name of the district on the other side of the main Fraserburgh road. Waukmill Cottage is still there and I presume that is where the mill was although I doubt it is the same mill as Waukmill, Auchmacoy as Auchmacoy estate is further away on the other side of the main Peterhead road. Auchmacoy House is the home of the head of the Buchan clan - not sure who that is nowadays but it is still a large productive estate set in a beautiful area - lot of shooting game and fishing. You can't drive through the road from the turn off to Collieston to the new roundabout at Ellon without seeing at least half a dozen pheasant. But I digress. On my return home I will ensure that I check my history notes then drive up to the mills and take some photographs.

                I_,_._,___




                Margie



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Allan Harrop
                Hi there, What a very small world. My Gr Grandfather, Alexander Kinghorn and his family were in Auquharney, Cotton of Oldtown, Ardally parish at the 1871
                Message 7 of 22 , Jul 11, 2006
                  Hi there,
                  What a very small world.
                  My Gr Grandfather, Alexander Kinghorn and his family were in Auquharney, Cotton of Oldtown, Ardally parish at the 1871 Census.
                  I have already made a neighbourly connection with Hester's family earlier in Logie Buchan.
                  I wonder just how many of our ancestors , who worked on the land , and who moved around so often, knew each other.?
                  Eileen
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Ray Hennessy
                  To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 10:37 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Imlay and Thom


                  Margaret Hector wrote:

                  I am interested in the Mill of Auquharney.

                  On the night of the 1891 Census James HAY Head (76)
                  Woolmill Manager, Jane HAY Wife (77), and their
                  granddaughter, Elizabeth H RAMAGE (16) were living
                  at Mill of Auquharney.

                  Does anyone have any history of the Mill at that time?
                  How far from Ardallie would the Mill be? Perhaps
                  someone might even have some knowledge of this family!
                  _________________________________________________

                  Hi Margaret

                  No knowledge of your family but you might like some map refs.

                  Auquharney House is at OS Grid Ref NK023381 and Mains of
                  Auquharney is at NK028366. There is a Mill about halfway
                  between the two at NK021375. This is shown on multimap at
                  http://tinyurl.com/grzfd which also shows the House and the Mains.
                  This is all in Cruden parish.

                  BUT this is on the Explorer map as "Mill of Auchleuchries", a
                  reference to several places to the south & west. So I don't know
                  if this is the Mill you seek. It's on the 1896 map but not named.

                  Assuming it is the right one, it is about 1.5 miles south east of
                  Ardallie just across the border with the parish of Old Deer.

                  Hope this helps

                  Best wishes

                  Ray Hennessy
                  www.whatsinaname.net

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • mlarooij
                  I am confused too, but then I always have been.. I am interested in the Auquharney House which was there c1750. Is that the one which is now a nursing home? Or
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jul 11, 2006
                    I am confused too, but then I always have been.. I am interested in the
                    Auquharney House which was there c1750. Is that the one which is now a
                    nursing home? Or was another built? I have tried to find a photo on the
                    web with no luck. Thanks to this correspondence I am somewhat wiser!

                    Marion


                    --- In Peterhead@yahoogroups.com, MARGIE DAVIDSON <margiedavidson@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > .
                    >
                    > Hi Ray,
                    >
                    > Now I am confused! not an altogether unusual occurence these days. If
                    I travel from Hatton up the back road to the main Fraserburgh road then
                    I turn left for Ardallie- which makes the mills north- I think. However
                    Ardallie is not really a village - there is a pub and a couple of
                    houses- it is more of a district as Ardallie school is on the main
                    Fraserburgh road but north of the pub.
                    > The mill opposite the entrance to Auquharney House nursing home can be
                    clearly seen - I am surprised that it is listed as mill of Auchleuchries
                    as that is the name of the district on the other side of the main
                    Fraserburgh road. Waukmill Cottage is still there and I presume that is
                    where the mill was although I doubt it is the same mill as Waukmill,
                    Auchmacoy as Auchmacoy estate is further away on the other side of the
                    main Peterhead road. Auchmacoy House is the home of the head of the
                    Buchan clan - not sure who that is nowadays but it is still a large
                    productive estate set in a beautiful area - lot of shooting game and
                    fishing. You can't drive through the road from the turn off to
                    Collieston to the new roundabout at Ellon without seeing at least half a
                    dozen pheasant. But I digress. On my return home I will ensure that I
                    check my history notes then drive up to the mills and take some
                    photographs.
                    >
                    > I_,_._,___
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Margie
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Ray Hennessy
                    Eileen [at a.harrop@btinternet.com ] wrote: My Gr Grandfather, Alexander Kinghorn and his family were in Auquharney, Cotton of Oldtown, Ardally parish at the
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jul 11, 2006
                      Eileen [at a.harrop@... ] wrote:

                      My Gr Grandfather, Alexander Kinghorn and his family were in Auquharney, Cotton of Oldtown, Ardally parish at the 1871 Census.

                      I wonder just how many of our ancestors , who worked on the land , and who moved around so often, knew each other.?
                      ________________________________________________________

                      Hi Eileen

                      Oldtown is shown on the 1832 map which is some time before the establishment of Auquharney House. There is, on the 2002 map, an "Oldtown Croft" which might have been your ancestor's "Cotton of Oldtown". You probably know this, but, for completeness, it can be found just north of Oldtown at NK017388. see multimap at http://tinyurl.com/kzluw where it is shown as an unnamed building.

                      Regarding how well the folk knew one another, we think each family might have had a very small circle of friends and neighbours. In researching my wife's family, nearly all from rural Aberdeenshire, we keep coming across the same names. There seems to be a very restricted gene-pool!!! Oddly, others researching in the same parishes have equally restricted name sets but there isn't much overlap.

                      This suggests that folk kept to the families they knew, by and large. And the half-yearly feeing system for Ag Labs might have meant that teams of workers who knew one another's strengths might have kept together if they moved round the farms. Some individuals and groups [or teams] seem to have settled on a farm for a number of decades. We have one family as farm workers on one farm in Methlick for about 130 years [1730-1860] and the same names of witnesses keep cropping up throughout that time.

                      Ray Hennessy

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Ray Hennessy
                      Hi Marion Auquharney House doesn t show on Thomson s 1832 map. Although he was unreliable in naming locations and the routes of roads, he generally seems to
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jul 11, 2006
                        Hi Marion

                        Auquharney House doesn't show on Thomson's 1832 map. Although he was unreliable in naming locations and the routes of roads, he generally seems to have got major country houses right [with a pretty little picture of a stylised house]. There is nothing on his map between Oldtown/Earlseat and what is now Mains of Auquharney which shows a number of scattered buildings, labelled as "Aquharnies". This generally seems to be his way of showing crofts and cottages scattered over a farm with no attempt at a realistic portrayal of actual buildings.

                        On the other hand, Thomson places Earlseat south of Oldtown which is the reverse of the relationship of their present locations!! So while Thomson suggests that Auquharney House is post 1832, it is a bit risky to assume this to be "fact". It may be that the main farm not the House was the site you are looking for - but it may not!!

                        Confusing!! Sorry, but it illustrates how we have to be careful when trying to "locate" our ancestral homes.

                        Ray


                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: mlarooij
                        To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 1:07 AM
                        Subject: [Peterhead] Re: Auqharney and Auchleuchries



                        I am confused too, but then I always have been.. I am interested in the
                        Auquharney House which was there c1750. Is that the one which is now a
                        nursing home? Or was another built? I have tried to find a photo on the
                        web with no luck. Thanks to this correspondence I am somewhat wiser!

                        Marion

                        --- In Peterhead@yahoogroups.com, MARGIE DAVIDSON <margiedavidson@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > .
                        >
                        > Hi Ray,
                        >
                        > Now I am confused! not an altogether unusual occurence these days. If
                        I travel from Hatton up the back road to the main Fraserburgh road then
                        I turn left for Ardallie- which makes the mills north- I think. However
                        Ardallie is not really a village - there is a pub and a couple of
                        houses- it is more of a district as Ardallie school is on the main
                        Fraserburgh road but north of the pub.
                        > The mill opposite the entrance to Auquharney House nursing home can be
                        clearly seen - I am surprised that it is listed as mill of Auchleuchries
                        as that is the name of the district on the other side of the main
                        Fraserburgh road. Waukmill Cottage is still there and I presume that is
                        where the mill was although I doubt it is the same mill as Waukmill,
                        Auchmacoy as Auchmacoy estate is further away on the other side of the
                        main Peterhead road. Auchmacoy House is the home of the head of the
                        Buchan clan - not sure who that is nowadays but it is still a large
                        productive estate set in a beautiful area - lot of shooting game and
                        fishing. You can't drive through the road from the turn off to
                        Collieston to the new roundabout at Ellon without seeing at least half a
                        dozen pheasant. But I digress. On my return home I will ensure that I
                        check my history notes then drive up to the mills and take some
                        photographs.
                        >
                        > I_,_._,___
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Margie
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • rsk4rivers
                        Hi Margaret and all those interested in the Mill The Mill of Auquharney was located on the creek immediately west of the farm, Mains of Auquharney. The farm
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jul 11, 2006
                          Hi Margaret and all those interested in the Mill
                          The Mill of Auquharney was located on the creek immediately west of the
                          farm, Mains of Auquharney. The farm remains and can be looked up on the
                          Ordinance web site under their "Get-a map" service. Remnants of the
                          mill wall and crofters house remain and are being preserved by the new
                          owner as he builds his new house nearby. I found its location by on a
                          historical map that I found on the Ordinance Survey website about a
                          year ago. I looked today but they seem to have redesigned the site and
                          the map itself did not display. One can order the map online though.

                          Margaret, I would be interested in information on the Hay family, as
                          there is a Rollo and Hay marriage at the turn of the century - 1910?




                          --- In Peterhead@yahoogroups.com, "Margaret Hector" <akoonah@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi all, and especially Bob,
                          > I am interested in the Mill of Auquharney.
                          > On the night of the 1891 Census James HAY Head (76) Woolmill Manager,
                          Jane HAY Wife (77), and their granddaughter, Elizabeth H RAMAGE (16)
                          were living at Mill of Auquharney.
                          > Does anyone have any history of the Mill at that time? How far from
                          Ardallie would the Mill be?
                          > Perhaps someone might even have some knowledge of this family!
                          > Cheers
                          > Margaret
                          > Western Australia
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • mlarooij
                          Thanks Ray, Every little helps, if at least to sort out the mental picture..all I know if that a Sir David HAY, a doctor, was served heir to Auquharneypriot to
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jul 12, 2006
                            Thanks Ray,
                            Every little helps, if at least to sort out the mental picture..all
                            I know if that a Sir David HAY, a doctor, was served heir to
                            Auquharneypriot to 1696. He was then in Edinburgh though. Unless he
                            had a previous marriage he had only daus. How the John HAY I am
                            interested in got to take possession I have not discovered. Or the
                            beginning date but until the mid 1750s. The current House might be a
                            much later date.
                            Marion

                            --- In Peterhead@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Hennessy" <ray@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi Marion
                            >
                            > Auquharney House doesn't show on Thomson's 1832 map. Although he
                            was unreliable in naming locations and the routes of roads, he
                            generally seems to have got major country houses right [with a
                            pretty little picture of a stylised house]. There is nothing on his
                            map between Oldtown/Earlseat and what is now Mains of Auquharney
                            which shows a number of scattered buildings, labelled
                            as "Aquharnies". This generally seems to be his way of showing
                            crofts and cottages scattered over a farm with no attempt at a
                            realistic portrayal of actual buildings.
                            >
                            > On the other hand, Thomson places Earlseat south of Oldtown which
                            is the reverse of the relationship of their present locations!! So
                            while Thomson suggests that Auquharney House is post 1832, it is a
                            bit risky to assume this to be "fact". It may be that the main farm
                            not the House was the site you are looking for - but it may not!!
                            >
                            > Confusing!! Sorry, but it illustrates how we have to be careful
                            when trying to "locate" our ancestral homes.
                            >
                            > Ray
                            >
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: mlarooij
                            > To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 1:07 AM
                            > Subject: [Peterhead] Re: Auqharney and Auchleuchries
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I am confused too, but then I always have been.. I am interested
                            in the
                            > Auquharney House which was there c1750. Is that the one which is
                            now a
                            > nursing home? Or was another built? I have tried to find a photo
                            on the
                            > web with no luck. Thanks to this correspondence I am somewhat
                            wiser!
                            >
                            > Marion
                            >
                            > --- In Peterhead@yahoogroups.com, MARGIE DAVIDSON
                            <margiedavidson@>
                            > wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > .
                            > >
                            > > Hi Ray,
                            > >
                            > > Now I am confused! not an altogether unusual occurence these
                            days. If
                            > I travel from Hatton up the back road to the main Fraserburgh
                            road then
                            > I turn left for Ardallie- which makes the mills north- I think.
                            However
                            > Ardallie is not really a village - there is a pub and a couple of
                            > houses- it is more of a district as Ardallie school is on the
                            main
                            > Fraserburgh road but north of the pub.
                            > > The mill opposite the entrance to Auquharney House nursing
                            home can be
                            > clearly seen - I am surprised that it is listed as mill of
                            Auchleuchries
                            > as that is the name of the district on the other side of the main
                            > Fraserburgh road. Waukmill Cottage is still there and I presume
                            that is
                            > where the mill was although I doubt it is the same mill as
                            Waukmill,
                            > Auchmacoy as Auchmacoy estate is further away on the other side
                            of the
                            > main Peterhead road. Auchmacoy House is the home of the head of
                            the
                            > Buchan clan - not sure who that is nowadays but it is still a
                            large
                            > productive estate set in a beautiful area - lot of shooting game
                            and
                            > fishing. You can't drive through the road from the turn off to
                            > Collieston to the new roundabout at Ellon without seeing at
                            least half a
                            > dozen pheasant. But I digress. On my return home I will ensure
                            that I
                            > check my history notes then drive up to the mills and take some
                            > photographs.
                            > >
                            > > I_,_._,___
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Margie
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • Ray Hennessy
                            ... Auquharneypriot to 1696. He was then in Edinburgh though. Unless he had a previous marriage he had only daus. How the John HAY I am interested in got to
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jul 12, 2006
                              Marion [mlarooij] wrote:

                              > I know if that a Sir David HAY, a doctor, was served heir to
                              Auquharneypriot to 1696. He was then in Edinburgh though. Unless he
                              had a previous marriage he had only daus. How the John HAY I am
                              interested in got to take possession I have not discovered.

                              Hi Marion

                              Could John have been Sir David's nephew? With inheritance limited to the male line, this would be [for those dear dead days] a natural succession, much as we might regret it today! It might be worth digging back to Sir David's siblings?!?! ;-))

                              Ray

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • mlarooij
                              Hi Ray, I have tried to find who David;s parents were but there are a number of Davids & haven t placed him yet. Or John. I agree, likely there is a nephew or
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jul 12, 2006
                                Hi Ray,
                                I have tried to find who David;s parents were but there are a number
                                of Davids & haven't placed him yet. Or John. I agree, likely there
                                is a nephew or somesuch relationship. I shouldn't think estates were
                                bought at that time, at least, not in this case as clearly they are
                                some sort of family connection. I am waiting for a sasines disc
                                also.. But I have found some indication the girls inherited, so not
                                sure what happened then, maybe they assigned it. There is also no
                                sign of John's marriage, or the christenings of his children. Not a
                                co-operative guy.

                                --- In Peterhead@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Hennessy" <ray@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Marion [mlarooij] wrote:
                                >
                                > > I know if that a Sir David HAY, a doctor, was served heir to
                                > Auquharneypriot to 1696. He was then in Edinburgh though. Unless
                                he
                                > had a previous marriage he had only daus. How the John HAY I am
                                > interested in got to take possession I have not discovered.
                                >
                                > Hi Marion
                                >
                                > Could John have been Sir David's nephew? With inheritance limited
                                to the male line, this would be [for those dear dead days] a natural
                                succession, much as we might regret it today! It might be worth
                                digging back to Sir David's siblings?!?! ;-))
                                >
                                > Ray
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                              • Ray Hennessy
                                Hi Marion Yes there are well documented cases of families in the nobility passing estates down through the female line but they were the exception. Your case
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jul 13, 2006
                                  Hi Marion

                                  Yes there are well documented cases of families in the nobility passing estates down through the female line but they were the exception. Your case looks like it might a male inheritance. However I've just thought of the other possibility that his eldest daughter married a bloke who agreed to change his name to hers [it is still legally permitted!!] and the estate stayed in the family name. I seem to remember there was some such arrangement in the history of the Spencer line [details lost in the dusty recesses of my brain cell].

                                  And doncha just love those uncoopertive ancestors who didn't register their life-events? Being a "Sir", there may be some old tome with details of him and his family hidden away somewhere. Keep trying, and good luck

                                  Ray


                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: mlarooij
                                  To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 2:57 AM
                                  Subject: [Peterhead] Re: Auqharney and Auchleuchries


                                  Hi Ray,
                                  I have tried to find who David;s parents were but there are a number
                                  of Davids & haven't placed him yet. Or John. I agree, likely there
                                  is a nephew or somesuch relationship. I shouldn't think estates were
                                  bought at that time, at least, not in this case as clearly they are
                                  some sort of family connection. I am waiting for a sasines disc
                                  also.. But I have found some indication the girls inherited, so not
                                  sure what happened then, maybe they assigned it. There is also no
                                  sign of John's marriage, or the christenings of his children. Not a
                                  co-operative guy.

                                  --- In Peterhead@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Hennessy" <ray@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Marion [mlarooij] wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > I know if that a Sir David HAY, a doctor, was served heir to
                                  > Auquharneypriot to 1696. He was then in Edinburgh though. Unless
                                  he
                                  > had a previous marriage he had only daus. How the John HAY I am
                                  > interested in got to take possession I have not discovered.
                                  >
                                  > Hi Marion
                                  >
                                  > Could John have been Sir David's nephew? With inheritance limited
                                  to the male line, this would be [for those dear dead days] a natural
                                  succession, much as we might regret it today! It might be worth
                                  digging back to Sir David's siblings?!?! ;-))
                                  >
                                  > Ray
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Margaret Hector
                                  A big thanks to all those amazing people who go to great lenghts to help paint pictures for me. The maps have been a great help and the accompanying
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Jul 13, 2006
                                    A big thanks to all those amazing people who go to great lenghts to help paint pictures for me. The maps have been a great help and the accompanying information most useful.
                                    The discussion going on about the Hays is also fascinating.
                                    Our James Hay was born 1813-1815 and according to the Census, in Elgin. He was the son of James Hay and Euphemia Jamieson. I have yet to find where these people originated.
                                    As far as a marriage in 1910, I dont know if it was one of ours. I do know there was a John Hay who was born in 1854 at New Deer. In the 1881 census he was unmarried an living in Aberdeen. I don't know anything esle about him.
                                    Cheers
                                    Margaret



                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Jen
                                    Hi, Whilst we are on the subject of Hays, please can I add my interest in this name just in case anyone knows anything about my lot. I have an Alexander Hay
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Jul 13, 2006
                                      Hi,

                                      Whilst we are on the subject of Hays, please can I add my interest in this name just in case anyone knows anything about my lot.

                                      I have an Alexander Hay who married Isabella Alexander in Peterhead in 1810. They had at least two daughters, Margaret and Isabella.
                                      I know that Alexander was a handloom weaver, in Cruden and that Isabella died in 1876 at Blackhill, Cruden at the age of 90. Must have been all that herring and oatmeal!

                                      I also have Daniels, Robertsons and Craigheads from the Cruden area so would welcome any information on them.

                                      Cheers,

                                      Jen



                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Margaret Hector
                                      To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 12:29 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Mill of Auquharney


                                      A big thanks to all those amazing people who go to great lenghts to help paint pictures for me. The maps have been a great help and the accompanying information most useful.
                                      The discussion going on about the Hays is also fascinating.
                                      Our James Hay was born 1813-1815 and according to the Census, in Elgin. He was the son of James Hay and Euphemia Jamieson. I have yet to find where these people originated.
                                      As far as a marriage in 1910, I dont know if it was one of ours. I do know there was a John Hay who was born in 1854 at New Deer. In the 1881 census he was unmarried an living in Aberdeen. I don't know anything esle about him.
                                      Cheers
                                      Margaret

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Cci
                                      Hi Jen, You might already have this info. Isabella and Margaret were at the same address. 1841 census Isabella Hay age 50 occ Lab born abt 1791 address
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Jul 14, 2006
                                        Hi Jen,
                                        You might already have this info.
                                        Isabella and Margaret were at the same address.

                                        1841 census
                                        Isabella Hay
                                        age 50
                                        occ Lab
                                        born abt 1791
                                        address Blackhill

                                        Margaret Hay
                                        age 25
                                        born abt 1816
                                        address Blackhill

                                        What christian names go with your Daniels, Robertsons and Craigheads, and dates.

                                        Thanks,
                                        Catherine





                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: Jen
                                        To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 6:36 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Mill of Auquharney


                                        Hi,

                                        Whilst we are on the subject of Hays, please can I add my interest in this name just in case anyone knows anything about my lot.

                                        I have an Alexander Hay who married Isabella Alexander in Peterhead in 1810. They had at least two daughters, Margaret and Isabella.
                                        I know that Alexander was a handloom weaver, in Cruden and that Isabella died in 1876 at Blackhill, Cruden at the age of 90. Must have been all that herring and oatmeal!

                                        I also have Daniels, Robertsons and Craigheads from the Cruden area so would welcome any information on them.

                                        Cheers,

                                        Jen

                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: Margaret Hector
                                        To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 12:29 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Mill of Auquharney

                                        A big thanks to all those amazing people who go to great lenghts to help paint pictures for me. The maps have been a great help and the accompanying information most useful.
                                        The discussion going on about the Hays is also fascinating.
                                        Our James Hay was born 1813-1815 and according to the Census, in Elgin. He was the son of James Hay and Euphemia Jamieson. I have yet to find where these people originated.
                                        As far as a marriage in 1910, I dont know if it was one of ours. I do know there was a John Hay who was born in 1854 at New Deer. In the 1881 census he was unmarried an living in Aberdeen. I don't know anything esle about him.
                                        Cheers
                                        Margaret

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                                        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                                        No virus found in this incoming message.
                                        Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                        Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.0/388 - Release Date: 7/13/2006


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Jen
                                        Hi, Thanks, I didn t have that one as I haven t had time to devote to research since the 1841 cenus went online. Or, to be honest, because I have been finding
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Jul 14, 2006
                                          Hi,

                                          Thanks, I didn't have that one as I haven't had time to devote to research since the 1841 cenus went online. Or, to be honest, because I have been finding a friend's Westmorland ancestry instead of doing my own.

                                          My Daniels go back to John Daniel who married Janet Robertson in 1763 in Cruden. He was a hand loom weaver. Their son, William, was born in 1772 in Port Errol and married Christian Robertson, born 1784, Cruden and daughter of James Robertson and Elizabeth (surname something illegible on Christian's death certificate). So I have two lots of Robertsons who may or may not have been brother and sister.

                                          William Daniel ( occupation shoemaker) and Christian had a son, James, born 1810c and he married Margaret Hay. He was a farmer and he died 1892 at Willow Cottage, Coldwell, Cruden.

                                          James Daniel and Margaret Hay had a daughter, Margaret who married Joseph Milne, which is almost as tricky to handle as my selection of John and William Smiths. The Milne branch also gives me Birnie, Mitchel, Walker and McKenzie mostly in the Strichen, Lonmay, Tyrie areas.

                                          My Craigheads start ( well obviously not, but in my tree it's as far as I have gone) with Margaret Craighead who married Charles Alexander 1775, Cruden. Charles was a fisherman but that's absolutely all I know about them and that only because of their daughter Isabella living to such a grand old age and to the wonderful Scottish system of naming both parents and occupations on a death certificate. I can't tell you how much I wish the English did likewise.

                                          Is that more than enough information? I'd love to hear from anyone who may be connected to these families.

                                          Regards,

                                          Jen

                                          PS. There is something odd going on in the world - it is hot in Cumbria. That can't be right.




                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: Cci
                                          To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 12:49 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Mill of Auquharney


                                          Hi Jen,
                                          You might already have this info.
                                          Isabella and Margaret were at the same address.

                                          1841 census
                                          Isabella Hay
                                          age 50
                                          occ Lab
                                          born abt 1791
                                          address Blackhill

                                          Margaret Hay
                                          age 25
                                          born abt 1816
                                          address Blackhill

                                          What christian names go with your Daniels, Robertsons and Craigheads, and dates.

                                          Thanks,
                                          Catherine

                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: Jen
                                          To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 6:36 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Mill of Auquharney

                                          Hi,

                                          Whilst we are on the subject of Hays, please can I add my interest in this name just in case anyone knows anything about my lot.

                                          I have an Alexander Hay who married Isabella Alexander in Peterhead in 1810. They had at least two daughters, Margaret and Isabella.
                                          I know that Alexander was a handloom weaver, in Cruden and that Isabella died in 1876 at Blackhill, Cruden at the age of 90. Must have been all that herring and oatmeal!

                                          I also have Daniels, Robertsons and Craigheads from the Cruden area so would welcome any information on them.

                                          Cheers,

                                          Jen

                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: Margaret Hector
                                          To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 12:29 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Mill of Auquharney

                                          A big thanks to all those amazing people who go to great lenghts to help paint pictures for me. The maps have been a great help and the accompanying information most useful.
                                          The discussion going on about the Hays is also fascinating.
                                          Our James Hay was born 1813-1815 and according to the Census, in Elgin. He was the son of James Hay and Euphemia Jamieson. I have yet to find where these people originated.
                                          As far as a marriage in 1910, I dont know if it was one of ours. I do know there was a John Hay who was born in 1854 at New Deer. In the 1881 census he was unmarried an living in Aberdeen. I don't know anything esle about him.
                                          Cheers
                                          Margaret

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                          ----------------------------------------------------------

                                          No virus found in this incoming message.
                                          Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                          Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.0/388 - Release Date: 7/13/2006

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Shell Leo
                                          1.2.1 Isabella KELMAN Illegitimate son by George MILNE: 1.2.1.1 John Alexander Kelman MILNE bpt St Fergus 25 April 1846 m Margaret HUTCHESON 1 May 1870
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Jul 14, 2006
                                            1.2.1 Isabella KELMAN



                                            Illegitimate son by George MILNE:



                                            1.2.1.1 John Alexander Kelman MILNE bpt St Fergus 25
                                            April 1846

                                            m Margaret HUTCHESON 1 May
                                            1870 Crimond


                                            .2.1.1 John Alexander Kelman MILNE m Margaret
                                            MUTCHESON 1 May 1870
                                            Crimond



                                            1.2.1.1.1 Robert HUTCHESON b 14 May 1868 Crimond
                                            [illegitimate son of
                                            Margaret HUTCHESON & unnamed father, known as Robert
                                            MILNE]



                                            1.2.1.1.2 John Kelman MILNE or HUTCHESON b 23 April
                                            1870 Crimond



                                            1.2.1.1.3 George Brown MILNE b 9 July 1873 Peterhead



                                            1.2.1.1.4 Alexandrina MILNE born c. 1877 Peterhead



                                            1.2.1.1.5 James MILNE born c. 1879 Inverurie



                                            1851 census: Keyhead, St Fergus

                                            John Kelman 60 b Crimond, farmer 4 ac & ag lab

                                            wife Mary Kelman 50 b Cruden

                                            daur Jean Kelman 13 b St Fergus

                                            son James Kelman 9 b St Fergus

                                            gson John A.K. Milne 5 b St Fergus

                                            881 census: 67 West High Street, Inverurie

                                            John A.K. Milne 35 shoemaker b Crimond

                                            wife Margaret Milne 35 b Crimond

                                            son Robert Milne 12 scholar b Crimond

                                            son John Milne 10 scholar b Crimond

                                            son George Milne 7 scholar b Peterhead

                                            daur Alexandrina Milne 3 b Peterhead

                                            son James Milne 1 b Inverurie


                                            --- Jen <gannet@...> wrote:

                                            > Hi,
                                            >
                                            > Thanks, I didn't have that one as I haven't had time
                                            > to devote to research since the 1841 cenus went
                                            > online. Or, to be honest, because I have been
                                            > finding a friend's Westmorland ancestry instead of
                                            > doing my own.
                                            >
                                            > My Daniels go back to John Daniel who married Janet
                                            > Robertson in 1763 in Cruden. He was a hand loom
                                            > weaver. Their son, William, was born in 1772 in Port
                                            > Errol and married Christian Robertson, born 1784,
                                            > Cruden and daughter of James Robertson and Elizabeth
                                            > (surname something illegible on Christian's death
                                            > certificate). So I have two lots of Robertsons who
                                            > may or may not have been brother and sister.
                                            >
                                            > William Daniel ( occupation shoemaker) and Christian
                                            > had a son, James, born 1810c and he married Margaret
                                            > Hay. He was a farmer and he died 1892 at Willow
                                            > Cottage, Coldwell, Cruden.
                                            >
                                            > James Daniel and Margaret Hay had a daughter,
                                            > Margaret who married Joseph Milne, which is almost
                                            > as tricky to handle as my selection of John and
                                            > William Smiths. The Milne branch also gives me
                                            > Birnie, Mitchel, Walker and McKenzie mostly in the
                                            > Strichen, Lonmay, Tyrie areas.
                                            >
                                            > My Craigheads start ( well obviously not, but in my
                                            > tree it's as far as I have gone) with Margaret
                                            > Craighead who married Charles Alexander 1775,
                                            > Cruden. Charles was a fisherman but that's
                                            > absolutely all I know about them and that only
                                            > because of their daughter Isabella living to such a
                                            > grand old age and to the wonderful Scottish system
                                            > of naming both parents and occupations on a death
                                            > certificate. I can't tell you how much I wish the
                                            > English did likewise.
                                            >
                                            > Is that more than enough information? I'd love to
                                            > hear from anyone who may be connected to these
                                            > families.
                                            >
                                            > Regards,
                                            >
                                            > Jen
                                            >
                                            > PS. There is something odd going on in the world -
                                            > it is hot in Cumbria. That can't be right.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > From: Cci
                                            > To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 12:49 PM
                                            > Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Mill of Auquharney
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Hi Jen,
                                            > You might already have this info.
                                            > Isabella and Margaret were at the same address.
                                            >
                                            > 1841 census
                                            > Isabella Hay
                                            > age 50
                                            > occ Lab
                                            > born abt 1791
                                            > address Blackhill
                                            >
                                            > Margaret Hay
                                            > age 25
                                            > born abt 1816
                                            > address Blackhill
                                            >
                                            > What christian names go with your Daniels,
                                            > Robertsons and Craigheads, and dates.
                                            >
                                            > Thanks,
                                            > Catherine
                                            >
                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > From: Jen
                                            > To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 6:36 AM
                                            > Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Mill of Auquharney
                                            >
                                            > Hi,
                                            >
                                            > Whilst we are on the subject of Hays, please can I
                                            > add my interest in this name just in case anyone
                                            > knows anything about my lot.
                                            >
                                            > I have an Alexander Hay who married Isabella
                                            > Alexander in Peterhead in 1810. They had at least
                                            > two daughters, Margaret and Isabella.
                                            > I know that Alexander was a handloom weaver, in
                                            > Cruden and that Isabella died in 1876 at Blackhill,
                                            > Cruden at the age of 90. Must have been all that
                                            > herring and oatmeal!
                                            >
                                            > I also have Daniels, Robertsons and Craigheads
                                            > from the Cruden area so would welcome any
                                            > information on them.
                                            >
                                            > Cheers,
                                            >
                                            > Jen
                                            >
                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > From: Margaret Hector
                                            > To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 12:29 PM
                                            > Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Mill of Auquharney
                                            >
                                            > A big thanks to all those amazing people who go to
                                            > great lenghts to help paint pictures for me. The
                                            > maps have been a great help and the accompanying
                                            > information most useful.
                                            > The discussion going on about the Hays is also
                                            > fascinating.
                                            > Our James Hay was born 1813-1815 and according to
                                            > the Census, in Elgin. He was the son of James Hay
                                            > and Euphemia Jamieson. I have yet to find where
                                            > these people originated.
                                            > As far as a marriage in 1910, I dont know if it
                                            > was one of ours. I do know there was a John Hay who
                                            > was born in 1854 at New Deer. In the 1881 census he
                                            > was unmarried an living in Aberdeen. I don't know
                                            > anything esle about him.
                                            > Cheers
                                            > Margaret
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                            > removed]
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                            > removed]
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            ----------------------------------------------------------
                                            >
                                            > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                            > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                            > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.0/388 -
                                            > Release Date: 7/13/2006
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                            > removed]
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                            > removed]
                                            >
                                            >


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