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Re: [Peterhead] Re: James Milne -- Census vs. OPR; REPLY

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  • jsethomson@aol.com
    Hello Hester: You and I may possibly be on to some real connections with your and my James Milne. My James Milne s parents did move around between
    Message 1 of 8 , Feb 12 8:14 AM
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      Hello Hester: You and I may possibly be on to some real connections with
      your and my James Milne. My James Milne' s parents did move around between
      parishes some. By the census of 1851, they were however living on Kirk Street in
      Peterhead.

      His mother was Margaret McWilliam. Her father William worked at a woolen
      mill operated by the Kilgour's at Kinmundy in the south side of Longside Parish.
      He had ten or more children. Daughter Margaret married a John Milne in
      1810. They lived in the north part of Longside parish not too far from another
      woolen mill operated by the Kilgours, and some of their sons were born in the
      Rora area. Probably they were cottars, and I suspect that one or more of the
      parents worked at the North mill. When it closed in 1828, it was a very
      disruptive financial tragedy for many who came from some distance to work there.
      Elizabeth Milne Chivas was born in 1823. Your James, being born in 1821 fits in
      the expected birth progressions. My great grandmother, Elspet Milne Thomson
      was born in 1828 in St. Fergus parish at Netherhill. Netherhill is still
      there and is on a bench of land, that overlooks the hugh British Gas plant that
      takes in oil from the North Sea and distributes it around GB.

      I do not know if you are aware that the parish of St.Fergus while being
      listed as being in Banffshire, was later incorporated into Aberdeenshire. It
      should have been in Aberdeenshire to begin with, but apparently there was some
      obscure politics that placed it by it self, almost in an island, surrounded
      entirely by Aberdeenshire parishes. St Fergus abuts both Longside and Peterhead
      parishes.

      I do not find it inconsistent that you could find no OPR record for the birth
      of your James. I could find birth records for every other child except
      James. I would not have known about the existence of James, if the records in
      Peterhead on the St. Peters burial lairs (plots) had not indicated that a son,
      James Milne, had purchased the cemetery lair in St. Peter's on the death of his
      mother in 1856, for her.

      If your James is our James, you should know that his mother's family, the
      McWilliams, has been researched extensively, particularly by our Webmaster, Wade
      Buchan, and myself.

      Best Regards, Jim Thomson


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Hester NicEilidh
      ... your and my James Milne. My James Milne s parents did move around between parishes some. By the census of 1851, they were however living on Kirk Street
      Message 2 of 8 , Feb 12 11:32 AM
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        Jim Thomson wrote:

        >>>You and I may possibly be on to some real connections with
        your and my James Milne. My James Milne' s parents did move around
        between parishes some. By the census of 1851, they were however
        living on Kirk Street in Peterhead.His mother was Margaret
        McWilliam. Her father William worked at a woolen mill operated by
        the Kilgour's at Kinmundy in the south side of Longside Parish. He
        had ten or more children. Elizabeth Milne Chivas was born in 1823.
        Your James, being born in 1821 fits in the expected birth
        progressions.<<<

        Hi, Jim:

        The tentative connection between "my" James Milne and "yours" is
        quite intriguing! Too bad we can't find a baptismal record for
        either of them to confirm that they're the same guy.

        I found my James Milne on the 1861 census living at 45 Kirk Street
        with his wife Elizabeth, 4 daughters and 2 sons (including the 4
        children that Catherine found baptism records for).

        Among those children was my GG GM, Mary(Ann).

        Now, another possible distant relation, the author Colin Milne:

        http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/nescotland/index.html

        ... just provided me with the marriage date for my James Milne and
        Elizabeth Walker, which I confirmed in the Scotland's People
        database. Elizabeth's parish of birth is given as Crimond.

        Anyhow, comparing the two dates that Colin and Catherine gave me, I
        see that my GG GM, Mary(Ann), was born just 7 months after her
        parent's marriage (again, I was able to confirm the info Catherine
        gave me via Scotland's People).

        Now, this type of "shot-gun" wedding was pretty common, I'm sure.
        What's odd, though, is that on the 1861 census, there is listed an
        older daughter, named Margaret, born in Peterhead, apparently two
        years before Mary Ann.

        I searched for this Margaret's baptism record but couldn't find it,
        even under her mom's maiden name. I did, however, find a record of
        a Margaret Milne born in Peterhead in the right time period to a
        different couple -- Robert Milne and Mary Lawson.

        So, I'm not sure if the Margaret listed as James Milne & Elizabeth's
        eldest daughter on the census was actually their own illegitimate
        daughter that they didn't bother to baptize, or if she was the
        daughter of Robert Milne (perhaps he was James' brother?) and was
        living with her uncle's family for some reason (maybe her parents
        had died?). But in that case, why tell the census taker that she
        was a daughter? Or did the census rules not make provision for the
        term "niece"? It's all very confusing!

        Also, along with James Milne, his wife & six children, 45 Kirk St.
        was at the same time also home to a 22-year-old Blacksmith named
        John Mafsie (? writing hard to read), his wife, his mother and 2
        babies, plus 2 unrelated elderly men in their late 70s whose
        occupations were both rather startling listed as "Labourer"
        (retired, one would fervently hope!).

        Yowza, that's 15 people living under one roof! When I visited
        Peterhead, I took a picture of Kirk Street, and the houses were
        three story row houses. So, I assume that one family lived on each
        floor. Still, it would have been cramped.

        >>>I suspect that one or more of the parents worked at the North
        mill. When it closed in 1828, it was a very
        disruptive financial tragedy for many who came from some distance to
        work there.<<<

        I think our North-East Scottish ancestors in the early 19th century
        led very hard lives. The pattern I've found with all the family
        lines I'm following is that they continually had to move away from
        home to find work. I'd term them "economic nomads". Those
        originally living in the countryside seemed to eventually
        get "sucked" into the industrial city of Peterhead. And what a grim
        place that must have seemed after the bucolic countryside that
        surrounds it!

        On my father's side, I see a similar pattern of economic hardship in
        industrial Yorkshire (my grandma worked in the woolen mills of
        Bradford from the age of 12!) and the slums of East London.
        Ironically, the generation that emigrated to Canada wound up
        repeating the same pattern here. They came to small rural mill
        towns at first, situated along pretty rivers in southern Ontario.
        But, as that economy foundered, they were drawn into the heavy
        industrial steel town of Hamilton (nearly as grim as Peterhead, but
        more polluted), just in time to live through the Great Depression.
        Yikes!

        [BTW, whenever there's a story about "pollution" on the news here,
        they show pictures of the steel mills in my hometown of Hamilton,
        like these:]

        http://image22.webshots.com/23/2/55/95/216425595yokWlQ_ph.jpg

        http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/2004/05/13/airpollution.php


        >>>Netherhill is still there and is on a bench of land that
        overlooks the hugh British Gas plant that takes in oil from the
        North Sea and distributes it around GB.<<<

        Oh dear, yes, what an eyesore the gas plant is! That was a bit
        shocking to me on my visit to the area. On that lovely stretch of
        beach too! And so near the ecological reserves of the Loch of
        Strathspey and the Sands of Forvie! I think the film "Local Hero"
        was a comment on that plant (partly filmed in Pennan just to the
        north). The movie had a much happier ending than real life, I think.

        It's shame that the economic engines that provide a livelihood for
        the working class (and the elites) have to be so ugly and
        destructive to the environment. Dark satanic mills, indeed!

        Cheers, Hester
      • jsethomson@aol.com
        Hi Hester: I have just read your long e-mail. I very much appreciate your efforts. I have always wondered about our James Milne . What you have further
        Message 3 of 8 , Feb 12 2:25 PM
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          Hi Hester: I have just read your long e-mail. I very much appreciate
          your efforts.
          I have always wondered about our "James Milne". What you have
          further indicated does not rule out that yours James, and mi ne, were not the same
          person. I could never figure out who the 'James" was that my ggrandmother
          named her first born son, James, after. She had 13 sons and 2 daughters. Her
          first three,all boys were born in Scotland...James at Rannieston in Logie
          Buchan parish, and Rob and George at Birness, also in Logie Buchan parish. Birness
          is very near the Tolls of Birness, which place is just southwest of Peterhead
          and is shown today on most good maps. It may that my grandfather was named
          after a James Milne.

          If you knew about when James Milne died, and that he died in Scotland, it is
          a good chance that his death certificate might have the information to solve
          the question. Fortunately, the webside, Scotlandspeople, can generally provide
          a subscriber with a printed image (copy) of a Scots death certificate on the
          Internet. If you can get even close to his date of death, let me know.

          If he is a relative, I can provide you with some interesting history of his
          grandfather, William McWilliam, and his career in the North Gordon Fencibles
          from 1778-83. He met Jane Ranie in Peterhead, and on September 2, 1782, they
          were married in a military wedding at Williams headquarters in Aberdeen. After
          service he relocated to Kinmundy in Longside Parish. He worked with the
          initial wool received. The Kilgours that were his employers were truly very fine
          and decent for the times. It has been suggested that is why they failed. The
          Longside minister in the First Statistical abstract so highly praises them
          that Maisie Stevens in her book on Eighteenth Century Scotland quotes him. Their
          second plant on the north side of Longside was located at Auchlee, just
          north of Longside village, today. Much of the help prior to its closing, for
          that plant, came from cottars places in the very boggy and swampy areas to the
          North. In 1823, one could have worked there, and have lived on the south west
          part of St. Fergus. I have photos of Wm McWilliams home in the highland -like
          area, just two miles south of Dufftown in Mortlach parish. The church
          records show the McWilliams were living on the Duke of Gordon's land there from
          the early 1700's. The McWilliams area is now owned by the Crown Estates, and
          since 1937. I also have beautiful colored plates of the various Highland
          uniformed North Gordon Fencibles including their pipers...the English reluctantly
          let Scots have their pipes if they served in their military units. I even
          have copies of some of Williams military records from the National Archives(Wade
          Buchan also furnished me William's service records). Williams brother,
          Robert, also served in the unit. The plates give any wall a brilliant spot of
          red for an interior decorator.

          I recall that 45 Kirk Street was very close to John and Margaret Milnes
          address. These were not fancy quarters, but were still much better than most
          farm servant cottages. Those were often small, one, or possibly two rooms,
          with thatched roofs, dirt or clay floors and one small window, two, if lucky. I
          have an enormous collection of materials on the situation that farm servants,
          married or single, experienced, and it covers most of the 19th century and
          particularly Aberdeenshire.

          I have been to Scotland four times. The first time I visited Peterhead was
          in April of 1946...enormous changes since then. The nineteenth century was a
          very difficult time for one-third of the Scottish population...Rosalind
          Mitchison says that for them them they were always on the verge of needing poor
          relief....a situation that was not very pretty. Many of the descendants became
          part of the Scottish diaspora...Scotland was a bittersweet experience for them
          but I find its social dynamics fascinating nevertheless, and more so than other
          countries social histories that I have studied. It was the most closely
          owned country in Europe both then and now.

          Please let me know if you find anything on your James Milne"s final days.

          Sincerely, Jim Thomson


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Hester NicEilidh
          ... small, one, or possibly two rooms, with thatched roofs, dirt or clay floors and one small window, two, if lucky. I have an enormous collection of
          Message 4 of 8 , Feb 13 6:33 AM
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            Jim Thomson wrote:

            >>>much better than most farm servant cottages. Those were often
            small, one, or possibly two rooms, with thatched roofs, dirt or clay
            floors and one small window, two, if lucky. I have an enormous
            collection of materials on the situation that farm servants,
            married or single, experienced, and it covers most of the 19th
            century and particularly Aberdeenshire.<<<

            Hi, Jim:

            I read your post with great interest.

            I was particularly intrigued by your mention of "farm servants".
            This is not a term I've come across before, but you've obviously
            done a lot of research on the topic and I'd like to learn more.

            At the time of her marriage in 1863, my GG GM Helen Mitchell was
            a "domestic servant" at Artrochie in Logie Buchan. I visited
            Artrochie in 2004, and it was quite a small farm. I spoke with the
            current tenant of the house, a diver on the North Sea oil rigs, and
            he suggested that it was unlikely that such a small place would have
            had "servants", but rather that my ancestor may have lived at
            Artrochie and worked as a maid at the nearby estate of Auchmacoy,
            either at the Laird's house or on the Home Farm.

            Since then, I've come across a 1881 census entry that showed that
            Helen was not originally from Logie Buchan, but had been born in Old
            Deer. That suggests to me that she moved to Artrochie looking for
            work.

            Also, I've just recently come across this description in Walter
            Gregor's _Notes on the Folk-lore of the North-East of Scotland_,
            written in 1881:

            >>>At the one corner of the hearth sat the father, and at the other
            the mother. Between the two sat the family, and it might be a
            servant or two, for all were on a footing of equality, the servant
            being a neighbour's son or daughter of exactly the same rank and
            means.<<<

            [Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/nes/nes13.htm ]

            Gregor seems to be describing a small, humble farm not unlike
            Artrochie would have been.

            So, do you think my GG GM was a "farm servant" then? Would this
            status have been described as "domestic servant" on a marriage
            certificate? Or was my ancestor more likely "daily help" at the
            Laird's house next door?

            Looking forward to your insights into this aspect of the social
            history of the area.

            Cheers, Hester
          • Allan Harrop
            Hi Hester, I have just read your message and realised that our ancestors were neighbours, and possibly knew each other. My gr grandmother, Elizabeth Clark,
            Message 5 of 8 , Feb 14 3:19 PM
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              Hi Hester,
              I have just read your message and realised that our ancestors were
              neighbours, and possibly knew each other.
              My gr grandmother, Elizabeth Clark, dau. of George Clark and Helen Geddes ,
              was a domestic servant at South Artrochie,
              Logie Buchan, when she married Alexander Kinghorn( from Peterhead) in 1868
              She had had an illegitimate son Alexander Sangster Clark at Bilbopark a
              few years previously and did not name the father.
              Her sister Bathia also had an illegitimate child and then later married an
              Alexander Sangster, Artrochie.
              Sounds like quite a love triangle, but I probably will never know the facts
              !!
              Wouldn't you just love to go back in time to see what their lives were like?
              Eileen
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Hester NicEilidh" <hesternic@...>
              To: <Peterhead@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 2:33 PM
              Subject: [Peterhead] Farm Servants


              > Jim Thomson wrote:
              >
              >>>>much better than most farm servant cottages. Those were often
              > small, one, or possibly two rooms, with thatched roofs, dirt or clay
              > floors and one small window, two, if lucky. I have an enormous
              > collection of materials on the situation that farm servants,
              > married or single, experienced, and it covers most of the 19th
              > century and particularly Aberdeenshire.<<<
              >
              > Hi, Jim:
              >
              > I read your post with great interest.
              >
              > I was particularly intrigued by your mention of "farm servants".
              > This is not a term I've come across before, but you've obviously
              > done a lot of research on the topic and I'd like to learn more.
              >
              > At the time of her marriage in 1863, my GG GM Helen Mitchell was
              > a "domestic servant" at Artrochie in Logie Buchan. I visited
              > Artrochie in 2004, and it was quite a small farm. I spoke with the
              > current tenant of the house, a diver on the North Sea oil rigs, and
              > he suggested that it was unlikely that such a small place would have
              > had "servants", but rather that my ancestor may have lived at
              > Artrochie and worked as a maid at the nearby estate of Auchmacoy,
              > either at the Laird's house or on the Home Farm.
              >
              > Since then, I've come across a 1881 census entry that showed that
              > Helen was not originally from Logie Buchan, but had been born in Old
              > Deer. That suggests to me that she moved to Artrochie looking for
              > work.
              >
              > Also, I've just recently come across this description in Walter
              > Gregor's _Notes on the Folk-lore of the North-East of Scotland_,
              > written in 1881:
              >
              >>>>At the one corner of the hearth sat the father, and at the other
              > the mother. Between the two sat the family, and it might be a
              > servant or two, for all were on a footing of equality, the servant
              > being a neighbour's son or daughter of exactly the same rank and
              > means.<<<
              >
              > [Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/nes/nes13.htm ]
              >
              > Gregor seems to be describing a small, humble farm not unlike
              > Artrochie would have been.
              >
              > So, do you think my GG GM was a "farm servant" then? Would this
              > status have been described as "domestic servant" on a marriage
              > certificate? Or was my ancestor more likely "daily help" at the
              > Laird's house next door?
              >
              > Looking forward to your insights into this aspect of the social
              > history of the area.
              >
              > Cheers, Hester
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Peterhead Genealogy at http://users.bigpond.net.au/phdgen/
              >
              > To unsubscribe send a messaged to: Peterhead-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Hester NicEilidh
              ... Helen Geddes ,was a domestic servant at South Artrochie, Logie Buchan, when she married Alexander Kinghorn( from Peterhead) in 1868 She had had an
              Message 6 of 8 , Feb 15 5:37 AM
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                Eileen wrote:

                >>> My gr grandmother, Elizabeth Clark, dau. of George Clark and
                Helen Geddes ,was a domestic servant at South Artrochie,
                Logie Buchan, when she married Alexander Kinghorn( from Peterhead)
                in 1868 She had had an illegitimate son Alexander Sangster Clark at
                Bilbopark a few years previously and did not name the father.
                Her sister Bathia also had an illegitimate child and then later
                married an Alexander Sangster, Artrochie. Sounds like quite a love
                triangle, but I probably will never know the facts !! Wouldn't you
                just love to go back in time to see what their lives were like?<<<


                Hi, Eileen:

                Yes, indeed, their lives do sound intriguing! Artrochie sounds like
                the mid-19th c. Scottish version of "Wisteria Lane"! [Now, there's
                an idea for a new TV soap opera!]

                I think for those of us who expected dour, repressed Presbyterians
                as our ancestors, that we're a bit bemused to find that they
                apparently had rather swinging sex lives, even by modern standards.

                Jim and Ray have emphasized that our ancestors, especially the farm
                servants and domestic servants, worked very hard. But obviously,
                with so many illegitimate births among the young servants, they also
                played very hard too.

                I'm wondering what the social life was like for the young servants
                on the farms. The young female domestic servants and male farm
                servants obviously "mixed", even if their duties were sharply
                delineated between inside and outside. And servants from
                neighbouring farms apparently had "contact" with each other too.
                What sort of social activities did they engage in together?

                Away from home and their parents' scrutiny, these farm servants seem
                to have had as much 'fun' as modern university students.

                I'm currently taking a course in Scottish Country Dancing. One of
                the instructors, to keep us looking at our partners instead of our
                feet, keeps emphasizing that SCD is all about flirting (continually
                shifting partners, holding hands, etc.). Would young servants on NE
                Scottish farms have had a place/time to dance like this?

                And where would the love affairs that led to the illeg. bairns have
                taken place? To quote the English folk song, "Underneath Her
                Apron":

                "Oh, was it in the kitchen got, or was it in the hall?
                Was it in the cow-shed or up again the wall?

                Whole song:

                http://tinyurl.com/8yan5

                [BTW, Anne Brigg does a wonderful version of this song!]

                Cheers, Hester
              • Phoebe
                ... I was really excited when I saw this posting ( as only a genealogist can be)My 3rd Gt Grandfather was John McWilliam from Peterhead area, born abt. 1790,
                Message 7 of 8 , Feb 17 3:51 AM
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                  --- In Peterhead@yahoogroups.com, jsethomson@... wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Jim,
                  I was really excited when I saw this posting ( as only a genealogist
                  can be)My 3rd Gt Grandfather was John McWilliam from Peterhead area,
                  born abt. 1790, he certainly was married to Elizabeth Robb 17 Aug
                  1813 at Peterhead, as a potential father to him I had William
                  McWilliam and Janet Rainie.
                  As I have no death of John, I am presuming he was drowned at sea as
                  he was a mariner, I only have one piece of evidence that his parents
                  were William and Janet Rainie and that is from the OPR.
                  I have his sister Margaret marrying a John Milne.
                  Does any of this ring bells, I have come to a dead end here as
                  nobody wants to appear on a census or die in a place I can find them.
                  Regards,
                  Fiona Poulton


                  I can provide you with some interesting history of his
                  > grandfather, William McWilliam, and his career in the North Gordon
                  Fencibles
                  > from 1778-83. He met Jane Ranie in Peterhead, and on September 2,
                  1782, they
                  > were married in a military wedding at Williams headquarters in
                  Aberdeen. After
                  > service he relocated to Kinmundy in Longside Parish. He worked
                  with the
                  > initial wool received. The Kilgours that were his employers were
                  truly very fine
                  > and decent for the times. It has been suggested that is why they
                  failed. The
                  > Longside minister in the First Statistical abstract so highly
                  praises them
                  > that Maisie Stevens in her book on Eighteenth Century Scotland
                  quotes him. Their
                  > second plant on the north side of Longside was located at
                  Auchlee, just
                  > north of Longside village, today. Much of the help prior to its
                  closing, for
                  > that plant, came from cottars places in the very boggy and swampy
                  areas to the
                  > North. In 1823, one could have worked there, and have lived on
                  the south west
                  > part of St. Fergus. I have photos of Wm McWilliams home in the
                  highland -like
                  > area, just two miles south of Dufftown in Mortlach parish. The
                  church
                  > records show the McWilliams were living on the Duke of Gordon's
                  land there from
                  > the early 1700's. The McWilliams area is now owned by the Crown
                  Estates, and
                  > since 1937. I also have beautiful colored plates of the various
                  Highland
                  > uniformed North Gordon Fencibles including their pipers...the
                  English reluctantly
                  > let Scots have their pipes if they served in their military
                  units. I even
                  > have copies of some of Williams military records from the
                  National Archives(Wade
                  > Buchan also furnished me William's service records). Williams
                  brother,
                  > Robert, also served in the unit. The plates give any wall a
                  brilliant spot of
                  > red for an interior decorator.
                  >
                  > I recall that 45 Kirk Street was very close to John and Margaret
                  Milnes
                  > address. These were not fancy quarters, but were still much
                  better than most
                  > farm servant cottages. Those were often small, one, or possibly
                  two rooms,
                  > with thatched roofs, dirt or clay floors and one small window,
                  two, if lucky. I
                  > have an enormous collection of materials on the situation that
                  farm servants,
                  > married or single, experienced, and it covers most of the 19th
                  century and
                  > particularly Aberdeenshire.
                  >
                  > I have been to Scotland four times. The first time I visited
                  Peterhead was
                  > in April of 1946...enormous changes since then. The nineteenth
                  century was a
                  > very difficult time for one-third of the Scottish
                  population...Rosalind
                  > Mitchison says that for them them they were always on the verge of
                  needing poor
                  > relief....a situation that was not very pretty. Many of the
                  descendants became
                  > part of the Scottish diaspora...Scotland was a bittersweet
                  experience for them
                  > but I find its social dynamics fascinating nevertheless, and more
                  so than other
                  > countries social histories that I have studied. It was the most
                  closely
                  > owned country in Europe both then and now.
                  >
                  > Please let me know if you find anything on your James Milne"s
                  final days.
                  >
                  > Sincerely, Jim Thomson
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Hester NicEilidh
                  ... ancestors were neighbours, and possibly knew each other. My gr grandmother, Elizabeth Clark, dau. of George Clark and Helen Geddes , was a domestic servant
                  Message 8 of 8 , Feb 19 12:03 PM
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                    Eileen wrote:

                    >>> Hi Hester, I have just read your message and realised that our
                    ancestors were neighbours, and possibly knew each other. My gr
                    grandmother, Elizabeth Clark, dau. of George Clark and Helen
                    Geddes , was a domestic servant at South Artrochie, Logie Buchan,
                    when she married Alexander Kinghorn( from Peterhead) in 1868. She
                    had had an illegitimate son Alexander Sangster Clark at Bilbopark a
                    few years previously and did not name the father. Her sister Bathia
                    also had an illegitimate child and then later married an Alexander
                    Sangster, Artrochie. Sounds like quite a love triangle, but I
                    probably will never know the facts!! Wouldn't you just love to go
                    back in time to see what their lives were like?<<<

                    Hi, Eileen:

                    That's a terrific story! Artrochie sounds like the 19th century
                    Scottish version of "Wisteria Lane"!

                    I'm sorry for the delay in my response. I did respond to your
                    message off-list, but I suspect my reply did not get through to your
                    e-mail account. Since my previous post, I have found some more
                    information about my ancestor at Artrochie. I also have pictures of
                    Artrochie farm and surrounding area from my visit in 2004 that I
                    could scan and e-mail to you.

                    If you're interested, please contact me directly by e-mail at

                    hesternic@...

                    Cheers, Hester
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