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Seamen

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  • fisherquine
    Anyone know what a lax fisher would be? there are several referneces to this in a book of mariners? entry John Craighead, lax fisher in Aberdeen 1696 John
    Message 1 of 20 , May 21, 2002
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      Anyone know what a lax fisher would be? there are several referneces
      to this in a book of mariners?

      entry
      John Craighead, lax fisher in Aberdeen 1696
      John Anderson, lax fisher, Bridge of Don 1664.


      There are white fishers red fishers and fishermen - have been able
      to work out all the differences but don't know what a lax fisher
      would be.
      And there are seamen, mariners, masters, skippers, burgesses and
      mariner burgesses- confusing somewhat!

      An awful lot of fishermen absconded in 1683 from the service of Sir
      William Keith of Ludquhairn (thats beside Longside just spelt
      differently nowadays) Wonder what happened around that time- could
      the Keiths have been on the wrong side again?
    • J Adams
      A Lax Fisherman is a Salmon Fisherman ... From: fisherquine To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 4:17 PM Subject: [Peterhead] Seamen
      Message 2 of 20 , May 21, 2002
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        A Lax Fisherman is a Salmon Fisherman
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: fisherquine
        To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 4:17 PM
        Subject: [Peterhead] Seamen




        Anyone know what a lax fisher would be? there are several referneces
        to this in a book of mariners?

        entry
        John Craighead, lax fisher in Aberdeen 1696
        John Anderson, lax fisher, Bridge of Don 1664.


        There are white fishers red fishers and fishermen - have been able
        to work out all the differences but don't know what a lax fisher
        would be.
        And there are seamen, mariners, masters, skippers, burgesses and
        mariner burgesses- confusing somewhat!

        An awful lot of fishermen absconded in 1683 from the service of Sir
        William Keith of Ludquhairn (thats beside Longside just spelt
        differently nowadays) Wonder what happened around that time- could
        the Keiths have been on the wrong side again?


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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Mmm16dav@aol.com
        OK so what is a red fisher? - I thought they were the salmon fishermen??? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 20 , May 21, 2002
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          OK so what is a red fisher? - I thought they were the salmon fishermen???


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • J Adams
          The red is the name given to a male salmon when it goes upstream to spawn, they turn a red colour. Red is also used to name the salmon where the word salmon is
          Message 4 of 20 , May 22, 2002
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            The red is the name given to a male salmon when it goes upstream to spawn, they turn a red colour. Red is also used to name the salmon where the word salmon is taboo.

            Jim Adams
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Mmm16dav@...
            To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 6:20 PM
            Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Seamen




            OK so what is a red fisher? - I thought they were the salmon fishermen???


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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            ADVERTISEMENT




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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Mmm16dav@aol.com
            Thanks Jim, I was aware of the superstition of mentioning red fish but was unaware that they were called lax fishermen . By the way we still have a salmon
            Message 5 of 20 , May 22, 2002
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              Thanks Jim, I was aware of the superstition of mentioning red fish but was
              unaware that they were called lax fishermen .

              By the way we still have a salmon fishery here in Cruden Bay and it is still
              run by one of the Bruce family,

              Margie


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Bruce Milne
              Margie Hi, Barb, my Jewish wife, says that salmon fishermen should be called lox fishermen. Any questions? Regards, Bruce
              Message 6 of 20 , May 23, 2002
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                Margie Hi,

                Barb, my Jewish wife, says that salmon fishermen should be called "lox"
                fishermen. Any questions?

                Regards, Bruce
              • Jean Cameron
                Hello: I have the list of Seamen with ticket numbers. I believe we have about a dozen names that could be ours. Is there a way to confirm parents. I am
                Message 7 of 20 , Sep 9, 2009
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                  Hello: I have the list of Seamen with ticket numbers. I believe we have about a dozen names that could be ours. Is there a way to confirm parents. I am working with the names Buchan, Bruce and Strachan. Hope to hear from you.

                  Jean Cameron
                  jeancameron-calif@...

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • william_scheyer
                  Jean: The Captain Robert Davidson I am related to had master s certificate number 32589. William Scheyer
                  Message 8 of 20 , Sep 15, 2009
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                    Jean:

                    The Captain Robert Davidson I am related to had master's certificate number 32589.

                    William Scheyer


                    --- In Peterhead@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Cameron" <jeancameron-calif@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello: I have the list of Seamen with ticket numbers. I believe we have about a dozen names that could be ours. Is there a way to confirm parents. I am working with the names Buchan, Bruce and Strachan. Hope to hear from you.
                    >
                    > Jean Cameron
                    > jeancameron-calif@...
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Mary Barnes
                    To Jean and William, Note that it s important to distinguish between Seamen s and Master s tickets (see http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/UK19thCSeamen.html). If
                    Message 9 of 20 , Sep 15, 2009
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                      To Jean and William,

                      Note that it's important to distinguish between Seamen's and Master's
                      tickets (see http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/UK19thCSeamen.html). If
                      Jean's list is of seamen and their ticket numbers, Robert Davidson's
                      Master's ticket will not be on it. From 1835, seamen had to be
                      registered and their certificate of registration was called a ticket.
                      But when an experienced seaman completed the process of qualifying as
                      a master, he was issued with a new certificate, with a different number.

                      I found out about my Peterhead shipmaster ancestors, first from Wade
                      Buchan's website (go to http://users.bigpond.net.au/phdgen/, choose
                      Miscellaneous Records and then Peterhead Seamen 1840s and 50s).
                      Incidentally, there's only one Robert Davidson listed, born in
                      Peterhead in 1791, seamen's ticket number 131108. If you think this is
                      your guy, contact Wade. He has copies of the actual tickets.

                      On a visit to Britain last year, I found out more about my shipmasters
                      from the Lloyd's Captains Register, held at the Guildhall Library in
                      London (see http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/capreg.htm). It has details of
                      each Shipmaster's career after gaining his master's ticket.
                      Unfortunately only the index is available online (see http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/capintro.htm
                      ), and even that is not yet complete. However, the Ds are complete,
                      and I notice that although there are many Robert Davidsons on it,
                      there is only one born in Peterhead (in 1839), with Master's
                      certificate of competency number C32589, changed to C32598, awarded at
                      London in 1875. I've no idea why the number might have been changed,
                      maybe just an error in the original entry. You need the number of the
                      master's ticket to find out more. At the library in the National
                      Maritime Museum in Greenwich I was able (armed with the number) to get
                      a copy of the actual "ticket" and, much more important, his
                      application for the ticket, which gave details of his career as a
                      mariner up till that time, including all the ships he had sailed on.
                      If you are not able to visit London, you could probably get a
                      researcher to look up the records for you, but it's not nearly as
                      exciting as going there in person and handling the actual records!

                      I hope this is of some help.


                      Mary Barnes
                      marysb@...
                    • Jean Cameron
                      To Mary Barnes: Thankyou for your imput about the seamen s tickets. I will be in touch with Wade. Jean ... From: Mary Barnes To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                      Message 10 of 20 , Sep 15, 2009
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                        To Mary Barnes: Thankyou for your imput about the seamen's tickets. I will be in touch with Wade. Jean
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Mary Barnes
                        To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 6:53 PM
                        Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Re: Seamen


                        To Jean and William,

                        Note that it's important to distinguish between Seamen's and Master's
                        tickets (see http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/UK19thCSeamen.html). If
                        Jean's list is of seamen and their ticket numbers, Robert Davidson's
                        Master's ticket will not be on it. From 1835, seamen had to be
                        registered and their certificate of registration was called a ticket.
                        But when an experienced seaman completed the process of qualifying as
                        a master, he was issued with a new certificate, with a different number.

                        I found out about my Peterhead shipmaster ancestors, first from Wade
                        Buchan's website (go to http://users.bigpond.net.au/phdgen/, choose
                        Miscellaneous Records and then Peterhead Seamen 1840s and 50s).
                        Incidentally, there's only one Robert Davidson listed, born in
                        Peterhead in 1791, seamen's ticket number 131108. If you think this is
                        your guy, contact Wade. He has copies of the actual tickets.

                        On a visit to Britain last year, I found out more about my shipmasters
                        from the Lloyd's Captains Register, held at the Guildhall Library in
                        London (see http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/capreg.htm). It has details of
                        each Shipmaster's career after gaining his master's ticket.
                        Unfortunately only the index is available online (see http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/capintro.htm
                        ), and even that is not yet complete. However, the Ds are complete,
                        and I notice that although there are many Robert Davidsons on it,
                        there is only one born in Peterhead (in 1839), with Master's
                        certificate of competency number C32589, changed to C32598, awarded at
                        London in 1875. I've no idea why the number might have been changed,
                        maybe just an error in the original entry. You need the number of the
                        master's ticket to find out more. At the library in the National
                        Maritime Museum in Greenwich I was able (armed with the number) to get
                        a copy of the actual "ticket" and, much more important, his
                        application for the ticket, which gave details of his career as a
                        mariner up till that time, including all the ships he had sailed on.
                        If you are not able to visit London, you could probably get a
                        researcher to look up the records for you, but it's not nearly as
                        exciting as going there in person and handling the actual records!

                        I hope this is of some help.

                        Mary Barnes
                        marysb@...





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • William E. Scheyer
                        Mary: Thanks for your help. My Robert Davidson was born on October 28, 1840 in Cruden. So, perhaps the Robert Davidson with ticket number 131108 was his father
                        Message 11 of 20 , Sep 16, 2009
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                          Mary:

                          Thanks for your help. My Robert Davidson was born on October 28, 1840 in
                          Cruden. So, perhaps the Robert Davidson with ticket number 131108 was his
                          father or grandfather. I can see this will take a lot more work although, I
                          do have many crew lists etc. from the national archives showing Captain
                          Robert Davidson Certificate number 32589. Perhaps I'll contact Wade also.

                          Regards,

                          William

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Peterhead@yahoogroups.com]On
                          Behalf Of Jean Cameron
                          Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:54 PM
                          To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Re: Seamen


                          To Mary Barnes: Thankyou for your imput about the seamen's tickets. I
                          will be in touch with Wade. Jean
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Mary Barnes
                          To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 6:53 PM
                          Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Re: Seamen

                          To Jean and William,

                          Note that it's important to distinguish between Seamen's and Master's
                          tickets (see http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/UK19thCSeamen.html). If
                          Jean's list is of seamen and their ticket numbers, Robert Davidson's
                          Master's ticket will not be on it. From 1835, seamen had to be
                          registered and their certificate of registration was called a ticket.
                          But when an experienced seaman completed the process of qualifying as
                          a master, he was issued with a new certificate, with a different number.

                          I found out about my Peterhead shipmaster ancestors, first from Wade
                          Buchan's website (go to http://users.bigpond.net.au/phdgen/, choose
                          Miscellaneous Records and then Peterhead Seamen 1840s and 50s).
                          Incidentally, there's only one Robert Davidson listed, born in
                          Peterhead in 1791, seamen's ticket number 131108. If you think this is
                          your guy, contact Wade. He has copies of the actual tickets.

                          On a visit to Britain last year, I found out more about my shipmasters
                          from the Lloyd's Captains Register, held at the Guildhall Library in
                          London (see http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/capreg.htm). It has details of
                          each Shipmaster's career after gaining his master's ticket.
                          Unfortunately only the index is available online (see
                          http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/capintro.htm
                          ), and even that is not yet complete. However, the Ds are complete,
                          and I notice that although there are many Robert Davidsons on it,
                          there is only one born in Peterhead (in 1839), with Master's
                          certificate of competency number C32589, changed to C32598, awarded at
                          London in 1875. I've no idea why the number might have been changed,
                          maybe just an error in the original entry. You need the number of the
                          master's ticket to find out more. At the library in the National
                          Maritime Museum in Greenwich I was able (armed with the number) to get
                          a copy of the actual "ticket" and, much more important, his
                          application for the ticket, which gave details of his career as a
                          mariner up till that time, including all the ships he had sailed on.
                          If you are not able to visit London, you could probably get a
                          researcher to look up the records for you, but it's not nearly as
                          exciting as going there in person and handling the actual records!

                          I hope this is of some help.

                          Mary Barnes
                          marysb@...

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Mary Barnes
                          William, I think it really would be worth your while to go (or get someone to go for you) to both the Guildhall Library and the National Maritime Museum,
                          Message 12 of 20 , Sep 16, 2009
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                            William,

                            I think it really would be worth your while to go (or get someone to
                            go for you) to both the Guildhall Library and the National Maritime
                            Museum, because between the two you would get the complete career
                            history of the Robert Davidson who had master's ticket C32589 /
                            C32598, who seems to be the one you're interested in (but better check
                            both numbers, as it's not clear when or why the number was changed).

                            Mary


                            Mary Barnes
                            marysb@...






                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • William E. Scheyer
                            Mary: You are quite correct. But, since I live in the USA I ll need to get someone to do the leg work for me. Do you have a list of such people? William ...
                            Message 13 of 20 , Sep 17, 2009
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                              Mary:

                              You are quite correct. But, since I live in the USA I'll need to get someone
                              to do the leg work for me. Do you have a list of such people?

                              William

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Peterhead@yahoogroups.com]On
                              Behalf Of Mary Barnes
                              Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 9:33 PM
                              To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Re: Seamen


                              William,

                              I think it really would be worth your while to go (or get someone to
                              go for you) to both the Guildhall Library and the National Maritime
                              Museum, because between the two you would get the complete career
                              history of the Robert Davidson who had master's ticket C32589 /
                              C32598, who seems to be the one you're interested in (but better check
                              both numbers, as it's not clear when or why the number was changed).

                              Mary

                              Mary Barnes
                              marysb@...

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Mary Barnes
                              On 18/09/2009, at 10:28 AM, William E. Scheyer wrote ... I don t have a list for London, but I know such people exist, and have used one in another city. Try
                              Message 14 of 20 , Sep 18, 2009
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                                On 18/09/2009, at 10:28 AM, William E. Scheyer wrote
                                > Mary:
                                >
                                > You are quite correct. But, since I live in the USA I'll need to get
                                > someone
                                > to do the leg work for me. Do you have a list of such people?
                                >
                                > William
                                >








                                I don't have a list for London, but I know such people exist, and have
                                used one in another city. Try googling something like "genealogical
                                researcher London" and see what you get.

                                Mary

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Jean Cameron
                                Can someone please tell me the requirements to get a seamen s ticket early 1800 s. Thanks. Jean Cameron [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                Message 15 of 20 , Sep 18, 2009
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                                  Can someone please tell me the requirements to get a seamen's ticket early 1800's. Thanks.

                                  Jean Cameron

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Mary Barnes
                                  Hi Jean, I don t think there were any requirements for a ticket except that the man would have had to be employed on a seagoing vessel. And I m not sure if
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Sep 18, 2009
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Hi Jean,

                                    I don't think there were any requirements for a "ticket" except that
                                    the man would have had to be employed on a seagoing vessel. And I'm
                                    not sure if it applied to all vessels in the coastal trade, maybe only
                                    to those visiting foreign ports. The Mates' and Master's tickets were
                                    a different matter. To get these, a seaman had to provide his record
                                    of experience and pass exams. The exceptioin was when the system was
                                    first introduced, when experienced seamen who had already been in
                                    command of vessels were granted master's certificates on the basis of
                                    their experience only.

                                    See http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/UK19thCSeamen.html.
                                    Organised service records of a seaman's career do not commence until
                                    1835.
                                    The Merchant Shipping Act of 1835 required masters of all ships to
                                    file Agreements and Crew Lists with the Registrar General of Shipping
                                    and Seamen.
                                    From 1844, any seaman leaving the UK was required to have a register
                                    ticket, details being entered in this series of registers. This
                                    register gives the name, place of birth and Register Ticket number.
                                    The ticket system was abandoned in 1857.

                                    See also The National Archives Research guide merchant Seaman
                                    Registers of Service 1835-1857 http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=127&j=1


                                    On 19/09/2009, at 10:32 AM, Jean Cameron wrote:

                                    > Can someone please tell me the requirements to get a seamen's ticket
                                    > early 1800's. Thanks.
                                    >
                                    > Jean Cameron,___
                                    >





                                    Mary Barnes
                                    marysb@...






                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Jean Cameron
                                    Hi Mary: Thanks so much for your information, one of these days I hope to pull it all together. Jean ... From: Mary Barnes To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Sep 19, 2009
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                                      Hi Mary: Thanks so much for your information, one of these days I hope to pull it all together. Jean
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Mary Barnes
                                      To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 6:40 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Seamen


                                      Hi Jean,

                                      I don't think there were any requirements for a "ticket" except that
                                      the man would have had to be employed on a seagoing vessel. And I'm
                                      not sure if it applied to all vessels in the coastal trade, maybe only
                                      to those visiting foreign ports. The Mates' and Master's tickets were
                                      a different matter. To get these, a seaman had to provide his record
                                      of experience and pass exams. The exceptioin was when the system was
                                      first introduced, when experienced seamen who had already been in
                                      command of vessels were granted master's certificates on the basis of
                                      their experience only.

                                      See http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/UK19thCSeamen.html.
                                      Organised service records of a seaman's career do not commence until
                                      1835.
                                      The Merchant Shipping Act of 1835 required masters of all ships to
                                      file Agreements and Crew Lists with the Registrar General of Shipping
                                      and Seamen.
                                      From 1844, any seaman leaving the UK was required to have a register
                                      ticket, details being entered in this series of registers. This
                                      register gives the name, place of birth and Register Ticket number.
                                      The ticket system was abandoned in 1857.

                                      See also The National Archives Research guide merchant Seaman
                                      Registers of Service 1835-1857 http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=127&j=1

                                      On 19/09/2009, at 10:32 AM, Jean Cameron wrote:

                                      > Can someone please tell me the requirements to get a seamen's ticket
                                      > early 1800's. Thanks.
                                      >
                                      > Jean Cameron,___
                                      >

                                      Mary Barnes
                                      marysb@...

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • William E. Scheyer
                                      Mary: I followed your advise and hired a researcher. It was well worth the cost as I now have not only a report but also photos of all my GGGrandfather s
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Dec 29, 2009
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                                        Mary:

                                        I followed your advise and hired a researcher. It was well worth the cost as
                                        I now have not only a report but also photos of all my GGGrandfather's
                                        certificates and applications for same.

                                        William

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Peterhead@yahoogroups.com]On
                                        Behalf Of Mary Barnes
                                        Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 9:33 PM
                                        To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Re: Seamen


                                        William,

                                        I think it really would be worth your while to go (or get someone to
                                        go for you) to both the Guildhall Library and the National Maritime
                                        Museum, because between the two you would get the complete career
                                        history of the Robert Davidson who had master's ticket C32589 /
                                        C32598, who seems to be the one you're interested in (but better check
                                        both numbers, as it's not clear when or why the number was changed).

                                        Mary

                                        Mary Barnes
                                        marysb@...

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Mary Barnes
                                        Good to hear from you again, William. I m glad that it worked out well for you. These certificates are full of information, aren t they? Mary ... Mary Barnes
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Jan 7, 2010
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Good to hear from you again, William. I'm glad that it worked out well for you. These certificates are full of information, aren't they?

                                          Mary

                                          On 30/12/2009, at 11:21 AM, William E. Scheyer wrote:

                                          > Mary:
                                          >
                                          > I followed your advise and hired a researcher. It was well worth the cost as
                                          > I now have not only a report but also photos of all my GGGrandfather's
                                          > certificates and applications for same.
                                          >
                                          > William
                                          >
                                          >

                                          Mary Barnes
                                          marysb@...






                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • William E. Scheyer
                                          Mary: Yes, the certificates hold plenty of information. I even learned about ships my gggfather captained I never knew about. Once again, thanks for your
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Jan 13, 2010
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Mary:

                                            Yes, the certificates hold plenty of information. I even learned about ships
                                            my gggfather captained I never knew about. Once again, thanks for your
                                            advice.

                                            William


                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Peterhead@yahoogroups.com]On
                                            Behalf Of Mary Barnes
                                            Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 2:34 AM
                                            To: Peterhead@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: Re: [Peterhead] Re: Seamen



                                            Good to hear from you again, William. I'm glad that it worked out well for
                                            you. These certificates are full of information, aren't they?

                                            Mary

                                            On 30/12/2009, at 11:21 AM, William E. Scheyer wrote:

                                            > Mary:
                                            >
                                            > I followed your advise and hired a researcher. It was well worth the
                                            cost as
                                            > I now have not only a report but also photos of all my GGGrandfather's
                                            > certificates and applications for same.
                                            >
                                            > William
                                            >
                                            >

                                            Mary Barnes
                                            marysb@...

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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