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Which chart sets are best and worst?

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  • jballgameca <j.r.horn1@shaw.ca>
    I was wondering what everyone thinks are the most and least accurate chart sets for SI Pro Football/Paydirt. Also, which are the most and least fun to play in
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 3, 2003
      I was wondering what everyone thinks are the most and least accurate
      chart sets for SI Pro Football/Paydirt. Also, which are the most and
      least fun to play in terms of the way the charts are set up? I have
      the 1969,70,71,72(both formats),78,79,80,83,84, and 87 sets and black
      and white photocopies of a few others.

      Personally, I don't care for the 1969 charts. I find them too
      defensively oriented. I've been playing a single knock-out
      tournament with this set for about three years now and I don't find
      it a fun chart set to use. The fact that 1-13 Pittsburgh beat
      Cleveland and 1-13 Chicago beat the Vikings to eliminate the NFL
      Championship Game opponents in the first round really turned me off.
      I should have been finished with this tourney a couple of years ago
      but I find it hard to get motivated to play.

      1970 and 1971 look good but I haven't used them yet because of my
      struggles with 1969. The bland 1972 charts look iffy. I purchased
      these in 1974 not knowing what season they represented so I made
      changes to the charts to reflect the 1974 season as it was
      unfolding. I've heard that 1976 is weak. I've never seen the 1977
      set. I believe that the 1978 to 1988 charts are the best to use. I
      have most of these sets and they all have good variety and give each
      team an individual appearance. I have played 1978 and 1979
      tournaments and I was pleased with the results.

      The 1989 to 1993 sets contained the new offensive result symbols on
      and very generic looking defensive results. I had the 1993 set for a
      short time but got rid of them because I knew that I would never use
      them. I don't like those charts at all, regardless of whether or not
      they would yield accurate replay results.

      It's been kind of quiet around here so I'm looking forward to
      everyone sharing their experiences.

      John
    • edwood3886 <dboyd@ikon.com>
      ... accurate ... and ... have ... black ... off. ... I ... each ... a ... use ... not ... Wow. I didn t even know they HAD 1969 charts (or 1970 charts for that
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 4, 2003
        --- In Paydirt@yahoogroups.com, "jballgameca <j.r.horn1@s...>"
        <j.r.horn1@s...> wrote:
        > I was wondering what everyone thinks are the most and least
        accurate
        > chart sets for SI Pro Football/Paydirt. Also, which are the most
        and
        > least fun to play in terms of the way the charts are set up? I
        have
        > the 1969,70,71,72(both formats),78,79,80,83,84, and 87 sets and
        black
        > and white photocopies of a few others.
        >
        > Personally, I don't care for the 1969 charts. I find them too
        > defensively oriented. I've been playing a single knock-out
        > tournament with this set for about three years now and I don't find
        > it a fun chart set to use. The fact that 1-13 Pittsburgh beat
        > Cleveland and 1-13 Chicago beat the Vikings to eliminate the NFL
        > Championship Game opponents in the first round really turned me
        off.
        > I should have been finished with this tourney a couple of years ago
        > but I find it hard to get motivated to play.
        >
        > 1970 and 1971 look good but I haven't used them yet because of my
        > struggles with 1969. The bland 1972 charts look iffy. I purchased
        > these in 1974 not knowing what season they represented so I made
        > changes to the charts to reflect the 1974 season as it was
        > unfolding. I've heard that 1976 is weak. I've never seen the 1977
        > set. I believe that the 1978 to 1988 charts are the best to use.
        I
        > have most of these sets and they all have good variety and give
        each
        > team an individual appearance. I have played 1978 and 1979
        > tournaments and I was pleased with the results.
        >
        > The 1989 to 1993 sets contained the new offensive result symbols on
        > and very generic looking defensive results. I had the 1993 set for
        a
        > short time but got rid of them because I knew that I would never
        use
        > them. I don't like those charts at all, regardless of whether or
        not
        > they would yield accurate replay results.
        >
        > It's been kind of quiet around here so I'm looking forward to
        > everyone sharing their experiences.
        >
        > John

        Wow. I didn't even know they HAD 1969 charts (or 1970 charts for that
        matter). Maybe some of our cohorts in our group can figure a way to
        rework them. I agree it IS ridiculous for the 69 Bears to beat the
        Vikings. The Vikings shouldn't have lost to ANYONE that year. I
        remember that season well. I have never seen 1976 so I cannot
        comment. I'd love to have a good set though. GREAT season, especially
        for you Raider fans. I don't know that the '77 season was ever
        available.
        I find the charts that I have from 1978-1993 to be playable and
        pretty accurate. Now that football is over I find myself extremely
        restless (until baseball starts) and need to fill the time with
        Paydirt tourney's.
      • jballgameca <j.r.horn1@shaw.ca>
        The first edition of SI Pro Football came out in 1970 and it was the most visually appealing of any game variation they ever released. It s a beautiful game
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 4, 2003
          The first edition of SI Pro Football came out in 1970 and it was the
          most visually appealing of any game variation they ever released.
          It's a beautiful game with very high quality charts but,
          unfortunately, the results on those chart don't seem to measure up.
          I'm all set for the AFL and NFL Championship Games with the Raiders
          playing the Chiefs (same as real life) and the Rams meeting the
          Cardinals (?!?!). My AFL results were actually right on with no
          upsets, but my NFL was a dog's breakfast.

          A 1977 set was definitely released but for some reason it and 1976 are
          very rare.

          John
        • Bodnar, Joseph
          Like I said previously, I have 1977 Paydirt Charts...I ordered them about 20+ years ago because that was the year my childhood team, the Dolphins, got screwed
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 4, 2003
            Like I said previously, I have 1977 Paydirt Charts...I ordered them about 20+ years ago because that was the year my childhood team, the Dolphins, got screwed out of the playoffs when the refs said Bert Jones didn't fumble against the Patriots (the first invocation of the Tuck Rule???)...so, if we are doing a big excel project, I guess Ican work on the 1977 season...like I said before, I can't make any promises of anymore than one per week, if that, due to other commitments, but I would be glad to do it as my part...
             

            Joe Bodnar

            -----Original Message-----
            From: jballgameca <j.r.horn1@...> [mailto:j.r.horn1@...]
            Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 2:35 PM
            To: Paydirt@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Paydirt] Re: Which chart sets are best and worst?

            The first edition of SI Pro Football came out in 1970 and it was the
            most visually appealing of any game variation they ever released. 
            It's a beautiful game with very high quality charts but,
            unfortunately, the results on those chart don't seem to measure up. 
            I'm all set for the AFL and NFL Championship Games with the Raiders
            playing the Chiefs (same as real life) and the Rams meeting the
            Cardinals (?!?!).  My AFL results were actually right on with no
            upsets, but my NFL was a dog's breakfast.

            A 1977 set was definitely released but for some reason it and 1976 are
            very rare.

            John


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          • Ron Jones <ganguy@yahoo.com>
            Thanks, Joe. As a suggestion, let s do the Super Bowl teams first. I am starting with the 1990 Bills and Giants (Giants win 20-19). Then I will work my way
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 4, 2003
              Thanks, Joe. As a suggestion, let's do the Super Bowl teams first. I
              am starting with the 1990 Bills and Giants (Giants win 20-19). Then
              I will work my way through the rest of the playoff teams. I am
              hoping that scanning with Omni Page Pro will save us a lot of time.

              Ron


              --- In Paydirt@yahoogroups.com, "Bodnar, Joseph" <jbodnar@m...>
              wrote:
              > Like I said previously, I have 1977 Paydirt Charts...I ordered
              them about
              > 20+ years ago because that was the year my childhood team, the
              Dolphins, got
              > screwed out of the playoffs when the refs said Bert Jones didn't
              fumble
              > against the Patriots (the first invocation of the Tuck
              Rule???)...so, if we
              > are doing a big excel project, I guess Ican work on the 1977
              season...like I
              > said before, I can't make any promises of anymore than one per
              week, if
              > that, due to other commitments, but I would be glad to do it as my
              part...
              >
              >
              > Joe Bodnar
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: jballgameca <j.r.horn1@s...> [mailto:j.r.horn1@s...]
              > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 2:35 PM
              > To: Paydirt@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [Paydirt] Re: Which chart sets are best and worst?
              >
              >
              > The first edition of SI Pro Football came out in 1970 and it was
              the
              > most visually appealing of any game variation they ever released.
              > It's a beautiful game with very high quality charts but,
              > unfortunately, the results on those chart don't seem to measure
              up.
              > I'm all set for the AFL and NFL Championship Games with the
              Raiders
              > playing the Chiefs (same as real life) and the Rams meeting the
              > Cardinals (?!?!). My AFL results were actually right on with no
              > upsets, but my NFL was a dog's breakfast.
              >
              > A 1977 set was definitely released but for some reason it and 1976
              are
              > very rare.
              >
              > John
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > Paydirt-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
              > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
            • mfloray63
              ... accurate ... and ... have ... black ... And another tardy reply from me. There are basically 4 sets of Paydirt charts and 3 sets of Bowlbound charts.
              Message 6 of 9 , Jan 27, 2004
                --- In Paydirt@yahoogroups.com, "jballgameca <j.r.horn1@s...>"
                <j.r.horn1@s...> wrote:
                > I was wondering what everyone thinks are the most and least
                accurate
                > chart sets for SI Pro Football/Paydirt. Also, which are the most
                and
                > least fun to play in terms of the way the charts are set up? I
                have
                > the 1969,70,71,72(both formats),78,79,80,83,84, and 87 sets and
                black
                > and white photocopies of a few others.
                >

                And another tardy reply from me. There are basically 4 sets of
                Paydirt charts and 3 sets of Bowlbound charts. Since this is a
                Paydirt group, here is the list.

                1969 - 1972 - Created by David Neft of Neft & Cohen fame. These
                charts play fine when played against each other, but not so good
                when played against other years.

                1975 - 1983 - Created by Dr. Thomas Nicely.

                1958, 1967 & 1984 - 1987 - Created by James Barnes, creator of the
                Statis Pro line of games. These are not good charts. Mr. Barnes
                was brought in at the last minute, without benefit of any formulas
                or knowledge. He did the best he could in a tight situation.

                1988 - 1993 - Created by Dr. Thomas Nicely. These charts were
                created using various modifications from his earlier work.

                All the charts, for all years, play better IF you use the Home Field
                Advantage / Power Rating / Yardage Factor rules as a complete set.

                I replayed the entire '69 season using the HFA/PR/YF. I see that
                people are trashing that set, but I enjoyed it! The Chiefs entered
                the Superbowl as the heavy favorites, only to lose to the upstart
                Cowboys, who barely made the postseason!

                I have complete stats if anyone is interested.

                In any event, the HFA/PR/YF makes all the difference in the world.
                Try it! It definately helps when playing one set against another.

                I have heard lots of people say that the Set 1 teams in Bowlbound
                can't compete with Sets 2 & 3, but in my current Bowlbound season,
                using the HFA/PR/YF, the Set 1 teams are doing just fine, thank you
                very much.

                Matt
              • jballgameca
                And another tardy reply from me. Hey, Matt. Better late than never! Welcome aboard! I finally finished a single elimination tournament with my 1969 set
                Message 7 of 9 , Jan 28, 2004
                  "And another tardy reply from me."

                  Hey, Matt. Better late than never! Welcome aboard!

                  I finally finished a single elimination tournament with my 1969 set
                  this fall. As beautiful as the first edition of the game is, I
                  didn't enjoy playing with these charts at all. It took me about
                  four years to play 24 measly games. My NFL results were terrible
                  but my AFL results were spot on. Go figure.

                  Oakland beat the Rams 42-10 in the Super Bowl, helped greatly by
                  three blocked punts on dice roll 29! What are the odds of that
                  happening? LA beat a bad St. Louis team (4-9-1 in real life) in the
                  NFL Championship Game and I also had disturbing results like 1-13
                  Chicago eliminating NFL champion Minnesota 17-3 and 1-13 Pittsburgh
                  knocking out NFL runner-up Cleveland 21-14. In the AFL, Oakland
                  beat actual Super Bowl champ KC 24-20 for the title, and every other
                  game was won by the favored team.

                  I'm now replaying the 1970 49'ers and I find these games to be much
                  more accurate and enjoyable.

                  Do you know the history behind the mystery 1975 chart set?

                  John
                • rupertsellsitall@aol.com
                  In a message dated 1/28/04 9:28:49 AM Pacific Standard Time, j.r.horn1@shaw.ca writes: I m now replaying the 1970 49 ers and I find these games to be much more
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jan 28, 2004
                    In a message dated 1/28/04 9:28:49 AM Pacific Standard Time, j.r.horn1@... writes:
                    I'm now replaying the 1970 49'ers and I find these games to be much
                    more accurate and enjoyable.
                    I played a pair of single-elimination tournaments using the 1970 set.  In the first, I seeded the 26 teams by won loss record (if they were tied, I used net points as a tiebreaker).  The top six teams got first round byes, and I played number seven against number 26, number 8 against number 25, and so on.  In later rounds, I would play the highest seed against lowest seed, second highest against second lowest, and so on, with the higher seeded team getting HFA.  In this tournament, Detroit defeated St. Louis in the Super Bowl.
                    I did the same thing in the second tournament, but seeded the AFC and NFC separately and played all AFC and all NFC until the Super Bowl, with the top three teams in each conference getting byes in the first round.  This time, San Francisco beat Cincinnati 20-17 with a FG as time expired.
                  • John Horn
                    Those are reasonable results. In 1970, St. Louis was 8-2-1 before they gassed their season by losing their last three and Cincy won their last seven to win
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jan 28, 2004
                      Those are reasonable results.  In 1970, St. Louis was 8-2-1 before they gassed their season by losing their last three and Cincy won their last seven to win the AFC Central before Baltimore shut them out 17-0 in the first round of the playoffs.  Have you played any other tournaments?  I've also played 1978, with Houston beating San Diego 17-14 in OT, and 1979, with the Bearsss topping Seattle 34-20.
                       
                      John
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 7:48 PM
                      Subject: Re: [Paydirt] Re: Which chart sets are best and worst?

                      In a message dated 1/28/04 9:28:49 AM Pacific Standard Time, j.r.horn1@... writes:
                      I'm now replaying the 1970 49'ers and I find these games to be much
                      more accurate and enjoyable.
                      I played a pair of single-elimination tournaments using the 1970 set.  In the first, I seeded the 26 teams by won loss record (if they were tied, I used net points as a tiebreaker).  The top six teams got first round byes, and I played number seven against number 26, number 8 against number 25, and so on.  In later rounds, I would play the highest seed against lowest seed, second highest against second lowest, and so on, with the higher seeded team getting HFA.  In this tournament, Detroit defeated St. Louis in the Super Bowl.
                      I did the same thing in the second tournament, but seeded the AFC and NFC separately and played all AFC and all NFC until the Super Bowl, with the top three teams in each conference getting byes in the first round.  This time, San Francisco beat Cincinnati 20-17 with a FG as time expired.


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