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Rules question: punt returns

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  • parcelofwrists
    Two related questions, actually. These have come up a few times in games and we re not sure how properly to resolve them. Case #1: I m returning a punt and my
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 2, 2006
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      Two related questions, actually. These have come up a few times in
      games and we're not sure how properly to resolve them.

      Case #1: I'm returning a punt and my result is "F." The defensive
      result is negative 2 yds. When/where did I fumble? The priority
      chart suggests it's a fumble at the "shorter" distance (if this were a
      "normal" offensive play that's what it would be), but there's no
      offensive distance. I fumbled the catch, right? Or do I reroll for a
      return, subtract the defensive number, and then fumble?

      Case #2: I'm returning a punt and my result is "FC." I roll on the FC
      chart and the result is "Let ball roll" and then I roll the yardage.
      Does the defensive result enter into this at all? I'd argue it does
      not because the defensive result is a modifier to my return yardage
      and in this case there's no return. And if the defensive result does
      enter into it, how do we resolve priority results? For example, if
      the defensive result is a priority 2 yard gain, does the ball roll
      only two yards? And which way, toward my goal line or theirs? Or if
      my FC roll says "Fair Catch" and the defensive result is negative 3
      yards, did they somehow knock me back 3 yards before I fair caught it?
      That doesn't make sense to me.

      My assumptions are that fumbles on punt returns are fumbles of the
      catch and that fair catch results essentially overrule any defensive
      modifier. Am I right?
    • Ron Pisarz, Jr.
      The RedZone PC software game implements these situations as follows (which I believe correctly interpret the intent): Case #1 RedZone Special Teams Defense
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 2, 2006
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        The RedZone PC software game implements these situations as follows (which I believe correctly interpret the intent):

        Case #1
        RedZone Special Teams Defense modifies return yardage.  In this case there is no return yardage, and the Fumble result is processed as is.  You fumbled the catch... that is the result, and the defensive result is not considered.

        Case #2
        The RedZone rules explicitly state that fair catch results are not combined when a Fair Catch is called:
        "Don’t combine punt return defense when fair catch is called."
        The software implements as such.

        You are correct in both cases.

        Ron Pisarz, Jr.
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 9:52 AM
        Subject: [Paydirt] Rules question: punt returns

        Two related questions, actually.  These have come up a few times in
        games and we're not sure how properly to resolve them. 

        Case #1: I'm returning a punt and my result is "F."  The defensive
        result is negative 2 yds.  When/where did I fumble?  The priority
        chart suggests it's a fumble at the "shorter" distance (if this were a
        "normal" offensive play that's what it would be), but there's no
        offensive distance.  I fumbled the catch, right?  Or do I reroll for a
        return, subtract the defensive number, and then fumble?

        Case #2: I'm returning a punt and my result is "FC."  I roll on the FC
        chart and the result is "Let ball roll" and then I roll the yardage.
        Does the defensive result enter into this at all?  I'd argue it does
        not because the defensive result is a modifier to my return yardage
        and in this case there's no return.  And if the defensive result does
        enter into it, how do we resolve priority results?  For example, if
        the defensive result is a priority 2 yard gain, does the ball roll
        only two yards?  And which way, toward my goal line or theirs?  Or if
        my FC roll says "Fair Catch" and the defensive result is negative 3
        yards, did they somehow knock me back 3 yards before I fair caught it?
        That doesn't make sense to me.

        My assumptions are that fumbles on punt returns are fumbles of the
        catch and that fair catch results essentially overrule any defensive
        modifier.  Am I right?




      • Darrin Hunter
        You are correct This years charts say Muff on any muffed balls, there is one case New Orleans punt return says fumble this is a fumble not a muff and can be
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 2, 2006
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          You are correct

          This years charts say Muff on any muffed balls, there is one case New
          Orleans punt return says fumble this is a fumble not a muff and can be
          returned by the defense

          Only combine special teams defense if there is yardage.

          I am playing the Super right now pittsburgh leads 14-10 at the start
          of the 4th quarter. Pittsburgh just picked off a pass on the goaline.

          Game started a punt fest then Seattle went down the field threw the
          air and scored taking 7-0 lead, Pittsburgh came right back on a couple
          of big pass plays and scored making it 7-7 then late in the 2nd
          quarter Pittsburgh got a 82 yard punt return then punched it in making
          it 14-7. Then Seattle takes 2nd half opening drive down for a 44 yard
          field goal making it 14-10.Pittsburgh misses a 25 yard field goal
          because of Seattle special teams defense late in the 3rd.



          >
          > Two related questions, actually. These have come up a few times in
          > games and we're not sure how properly to resolve them.
          >
          > Case #1: I'm returning a punt and my result is "F." The defensive
          > result is negative 2 yds. When/where did I fumble? The priority
          > chart suggests it's a fumble at the "shorter" distance (if this were a
          > "normal" offensive play that's what it would be), but there's no
          > offensive distance. I fumbled the catch, right? Or do I reroll for a
          > return, subtract the defensive number, and then fumble?
          >
          > Case #2: I'm returning a punt and my result is "FC." I roll on the FC
          > chart and the result is "Let ball roll" and then I roll the yardage.
          > Does the defensive result enter into this at all? I'd argue it does
          > not because the defensive result is a modifier to my return yardage
          > and in this case there's no return. And if the defensive result does
          > enter into it, how do we resolve priority results? For example, if
          > the defensive result is a priority 2 yard gain, does the ball roll
          > only two yards? And which way, toward my goal line or theirs? Or if
          > my FC roll says "Fair Catch" and the defensive result is negative 3
          > yards, did they somehow knock me back 3 yards before I fair caught it?
          > That doesn't make sense to me.
          >
          > My assumptions are that fumbles on punt returns are fumbles of the
          > catch and that fair catch results essentially overrule any defensive
          > modifier. Am I right?
          >
        • Bill O'Neal
          Thats pretty good Darrin, considering the Vegas odds makers have the Steelers as 4 point favorites. Let me know how your game finishes up. Bill From: Darrin
          Message 4 of 5 , Feb 2, 2006
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            Thats pretty good Darrin, considering the Vegas odds makers have the Steelers as 4 point favorites.  Let me know how your game finishes up.

            Bill


            From: "Darrin Hunter" <hunte0062000@...>
            Reply-To: Paydirt@yahoogroups.com
            To: Paydirt@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Paydirt] Re: Rules question: punt returns
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            You are correct

            This years charts say Muff on any muffed balls, there is one case New
            Orleans punt return says fumble this is a fumble not a muff and can be
            returned by the defense

            Only combine special teams defense if there is yardage.

            I am playing the Super right now pittsburgh leads 14-10 at the start
            of the 4th quarter. Pittsburgh just picked off a pass on the goaline.

            Game started a punt fest then Seattle went down the field threw the
            air and scored taking 7-0 lead, Pittsburgh came right back on a couple
            of big pass plays and scored making it 7-7 then late in the 2nd
            quarter Pittsburgh got a 82 yard punt return then punched it in making
            it 14-7. Then Seattle takes 2nd half opening drive down for a 44 yard
            field goal making it 14-10.Pittsburgh misses a 25 yard field goal
            because of Seattle special teams defense late in the 3rd.



            >
            > Two related questions, actually.  These have come up a few times in
            > games and we're not sure how properly to resolve them. 
            >
            > Case #1: I'm returning a punt and my result is "F."  The defensive
            > result is negative 2 yds.  When/where did I fumble?  The priority
            > chart suggests it's a fumble at the "shorter" distance (if this were a
            > "normal" offensive play that's what it would be), but there's no
            > offensive distance.  I fumbled the catch, right?  Or do I reroll for a
            > return, subtract the defensive number, and then fumble?
            >
            > Case #2: I'm returning a punt and my result is "FC."  I roll on the FC
            > chart and the result is "Let ball roll" and then I roll the yardage.
            > Does the defensive result enter into this at all?  I'd argue it does
            > not because the defensive result is a modifier to my return yardage
            > and in this case there's no return.  And if the defensive result does
            > enter into it, how do we resolve priority results?  For example, if
            > the defensive result is a priority 2 yard gain, does the ball roll
            > only two yards?  And which way, toward my goal line or theirs?  Or if
            > my FC roll says "Fair Catch" and the defensive result is negative 3
            > yards, did they somehow knock me back 3 yards before I fair caught it?
            >  That doesn't make sense to me.
            >
            > My assumptions are that fumbles on punt returns are fumbles of the
            > catch and that fair catch results essentially overrule any defensive
            > modifier.  Am I right?
            >







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          • Darrin Hunter
            Game finished like this with the score 14-10 Pittsburgh.Neither team could run the ball well then in the 4th quarter Seattle began to run the ball well if fact
            Message 5 of 5 , Feb 2, 2006
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              Game finished like this with the score 14-10 Pittsburgh.Neither team
              could run the ball well then in the 4th quarter Seattle began to run
              the ball well if fact with 6:20 on the clock they got the ball and
              began to pound it threw some short passes using up the clock. On 2nd
              and 8 from the 8 yardline Alexander ran for 7 yards to the 1 with 1:00
              left. On 3rd down Seattle calls line plunge but the result was -1
              knocking them back to the 2 yardline. Pitts burgh calls timeout again
              to save time with :40 on the clock and 4th and 3 Seattle calls short
              but hits a INC and Pittsburgh gets ball with :30 left Pittsburgh
              cannot take kneel downs because this would result in safety so on
              first down they lose 1 yard, but on the next run they get 6 yards and
              the victory.

              Overall I felt Seattle had the better team but pittsburgh defense made
              big plays a the right time. I would advoid betting on this game it is
              a true toss up.
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