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Re: [Paternosters] Over the shoulder

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  • CJ Baschal
    You bring up a very good point on the knotting, it is hard to document since artistic license is the thing in portraits. That said I have seen space between
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 18 8:36 AM
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      You bring up a very good point on the knotting, it is hard to document since artistic license is the thing in portraits. That said I have seen "space" between the beads as if they are floating on the string. I do not know for sure on the pearls but I do know other beads were knotted before 1600, This is from the Elizabethian Era Portrait of Gabrielle de Rochechouart 1574 
      http://www.wga.hu/art/c/corneill/rochecho.jpg

      Shows what I see as knots around each bead. Again this is not a paternoster but it does show knotted beads. 
      Not all Paternosters had the spacing for sliding the beads, just as many do not today. The beads may have had a tiny seed bead 
      http://www.culture24.org.uk/asset_arena/4/48/74/347844/v0_master.jpg

      This is an example of one that has no spacing. Portraits are full of them. I was looking for links and kept finding myself on your page. 

      Its hard to prove they did knot, I am going to keep looking for more than what I have found which is using pearls and knotting beads but for my long one, I am going to knot them just so I do not lose a third of them again. 

      Angharad


      ________________________________
      From: Chris Laning <claning@...>
      To: Paternosters@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2013 10:54 AM
      Subject: Re: [Paternosters] Over the shoulder



       
      On Jul 16, 2013, at 7:22 PM, CJ Baschal wrote:

      > Would freshwater pearls be appropriate? I know the two pictures show red, but I do not have many garnets and they are small.
      >
      > I have two reasons for wanting to use pearls. One is that I like them and know they were used in paternosters. The second is that I teach a class on how to knot a pearl (placing the knot where you want them) and plan to knot each pearl and garnet on. I recently had my citrine paternoster break and lost a third of the citrines and pearls from it. It was not fun and I am in the process of restringing it and knotting each and every one to make sure that never happens again.

      Note that pearls are at the very top of the "social status" hierarchy of paternoster beads, above the popular and expen$ive red coral and rock crystal and up there with gold and precious stones (such as sapphire or ruby). Truly something to treasure. The use of pearls seems to have got its start in the middle 1300s among royalty and the highest aristocracy, if I'm remembering what Lightbown says correctly (sorry, morning and in a rush to get to work, can't look it up right now).

      I'd be interested to know whether you can document knotting between pearls to before 1600. I asserted once that it was done, only to have someone ask me what my source for that information was, and had to admit it was hearsay and not actual evidence.

      I have knotted between beads on paternosters I've made in the past, but it doesn't, according to my research, seem to have been something that was done. Apparently the ability of the beads to slide along the thread was important to the use of the paternoster. Each bead was held as you said the prayer that went with it and then you slid it aside and picked up the next one..




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • George A.Trosper
      ... And THERE S what I was looking for, written before I asked. --George/Gerard
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 6, 2013
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        On 7/18/2013 8:54 AM, Chris Laning wrote:
        > I have knotted between beads on paternosters I've made in the past, but it doesn't, according to my research, seem to have been something that was done. Apparently the ability of the beads to slide along the thread was important to the use of the paternoster. Each bead was held as you said the prayer that went with it and then you slid it aside and picked up the next one.

        And THERE'S what I was looking for, written before I asked.

        --George/Gerard
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