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Re: [Paternosters] Black string necklaces

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  • fusilierlx
    Scapulars, FWIW-- the medal version was not recognized by the Holy See until 1910. AMDG jsa
    Message 1 of 8 , Feb 20, 2013
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      Scapulars, FWIW-- the medal version was not recognized by the Holy See until 1910.
      AMDG
      jsa
      ---- Chris Laning <claning@...> wrote:
      > On Feb 18, 2013, at 8:19 PM, <wheezul@...> <wheezul@...> wrote:
      >
      > > Some friends and I have been having a round table discussion about the
      > > black strings we see worn presumably as necklaces by women in Cranach
      > > paintings. Usually they disappear behind a bodice, but on a few nudes and
      > > visible behind a transparent shift, these cords are tied with a knot that
      > > has trailing ends - shaped into a cross-shape. In one case the cord holds
      > > a simple cross, and in another a child is wearing one. Oddly besides the
      > > occasional nudes, the cords are most frequent on women seen with Christ
      > > blessing the little children.
      > >
      > > What I was wondering is if anyone knew if there was a tradition of a
      > > confirmation necklace of black cord? Or some other occasion where such a
      > > simple cord might be worn for a religious reason along with a young fortune
      > > in the latest fashion in jewelry? It's puzzling!
      >
      >
      > Well, but remember too that Fashion Has No Reasons -- there are plenty of things that have no particular reason for being worn other than a desire to wear what the Cool Kids are wearing.
      >
      > I don't see any reason offhand to *start* by assuming that these black cords (and you're right, I've seen them) are religious in nature, especially if they don't have a pendant of some sort.
      >
      > That said, they of course *could* be religious -- especially those with a cross or religous pendant. But if the black cord itself had some particular significance, I'd want to see some evidence. I'll be very interested to see what turns up.
      >
      > I'm intrigued by the knot "with trailing ends in a cross shape" -- would like to see examples. I can certainly imagine cross-shaped *knots* -- I know how to tie at least one -- but having the loose ends shaped into a cross with no structure to hold them puzzles me and I'm having trouble visualizing it.
      >
      > As for scapulars, if I had to speculate on the basis of no evidence, I'd think that 15th- or 16th-century scapulars would likely be something like the first one I received -- two tabs of wool cloth connected by cords. The wool cloth is part of the symbolism -- the lay person's "scapular" is an abbreviated version of the original "scapular" which is an apron-like object -- originally an actual work apron -- worn over a monastic habit. It's essentially a very long narrow rectangle of wool cloth about the width of a person's shoulders, with a hole cut in the middle for the head, hanging down to somewhere between knee and ankle level both front and back.
      >
      > I believe -- though I'm speculating again -- that the metal "scapular medals" that take the place of a scapular are a modern innovation, probably popular at least partly because they don't require regular washing.
      >
      > Also, they don't itch ;)
      >
      > ____________________________________________________________
      >
      > O Chris Laning <claning@...> - Davis, California
      > + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com
      > ____________________________________________________________
      >
      >
      >
    • jillwheezul
      ... I report: In the way that these things are serendipitous, yesterday I checked out Die Grafen von Sulz und ihr Begräbnis in Tiengen am Hochrhein by Ilse
      Message 2 of 8 , Feb 26, 2013
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        Chris wrote:
        >
        > As for scapulars, if I had to speculate on the basis of no evidence,
        > I'd think that 15th- or 16th-century scapulars would likely be something
        > like the first one I received -- two tabs of wool cloth connected by
        > cords. The wool cloth is part of the symbolism -- the lay person's
        > "scapular" is an abbreviated version of the original "scapular" which is
        > an apron-like object -- originally an actual work apron -- worn over a
        > monastic habit. It's essentially a very long narrow rectangle of wool
        > cloth about the width of a person's shoulders, with a hole cut in the
        > middle for the head, hanging down to somewhere between knee and ankle
        > level both front and back.
        >
        > I believe -- though I'm speculating again -- that the metal "scapular
        > medals" that take the place of a scapular are a modern innovation,
        > probably popular at least partly because they don't require regular
        > washing.
        >
        > Also, they don't itch ;)

        I report:

        In the way that these things are serendipitous, yesterday I checked out
        "Die Grafen von Sulz und ihr Begräbnis in Tiengen am Hochrhein" by Ilse
        Fingerlin that came via Inter Library Loan. Interestingly I learned that
        there are 17 coffins investigated from the 16th and 17th century. Many of
        the remains had both clothing and other items recovered, including
        scapulars and rosaries of different sorts. Chris, I thought this might be
        of interest as several of the devotional beads are still on their original
        silk cords and they do vary in style. One of the scapulars has what may be
        an encrusted oval medallion sewn on and they seem to be made of dark felt
        squares and narrow-ware silk bands that hold them together.

        Katherine
      • silveroak@juno.com
        Greetings, ... There could be a stiffening wire inside it, or it could have been painted with a watered-down glue. Perhaps even starch?? ... I m also
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 1, 2013
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          Greetings,

          >I'm intrigued by the knot "with trailing ends in a cross shape" -- would like to see examples. I can certainly imagine cross-shaped *knots* -- I know how to tie at least one -- but having the loose ends shaped into a cross with no structure to hold them puzzles me and I'm having trouble visualizing it.

          There could be a stiffening wire inside it, or it could have been painted with a watered-down glue. Perhaps even starch??

          >I believe -- though I'm speculating again -- that the metal "scapular medals" that take the place of a scapular are a modern innovation, probably popular at least partly because they don't require regular washing. Also, they don't itch ;)

          I'm also speculating - what if the itch was part of the point? Thinking of the penitentes and such; a constant reminder of Christ's suffering?

          -Carowyn

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