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Nuns purses and beads and things

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  • Ruth Singer
    Hi All, Having been catching up on the archive with interest after having just found this list. Interesting discussion about nuns and purses and things. I
    Message 1 of 3 , Nov 24, 2002
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      Hi All,
      Having been catching up on the archive with interest
      after having just found this list.

      Interesting discussion about nuns and purses and
      things. I would agree with Chris that even without
      money something would be needed for carrying stuff
      around, as she suggests. Late medieval nuns certainly
      made purses, and as I recall they owned them as well -
      but were supposed to have linen not silk. But this is
      somewhat off the subject. I have refs hiding away, so
      contact me privately if you want.
      Anyhow, another thing i spotted was a mention of ivory
      beads. I've foind no reference or surviving example of
      ivory beads used in the later middle ages in England /
      Europe. Does anyone know better?
      I am also working on a list of materials for
      paternoster beads both extant and textual refs, so any
      refs would be very welcome.

      One other thing - I spotted (don't know how I missed
      it before) a set of wood paternoster beads (C14th??)
      on display at the Museum of London. No useful
      information with them, but I will be on the case soon
      to check them out and get a look at them off display.

      Oh, and another - I have an article published by the
      finds research group on paternoster beads made from
      fish vertebrae - some found in a fishing village in
      England and a painting showing them which is
      Protuguese I think. Will bring it in to the office and
      give you all a proper precis eventually.

      Best wishes

      Ruth Singer
      Soper Lane, Fifteenth Century Silkwomen
      www.soper-lane.co.uk

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    • Chris Laning
      ... Aha! I ran across one recently and had to re-think where I d seen it. I don t know whether the 15th century is late by your definition, however. ...From
      Message 2 of 3 , Dec 3, 2002
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        At 1:31 PM +0000 11/24/02, Ruth Singer wrote:
        >Anyhow, another thing i spotted was a mention of ivory
        >beads. I've foind no reference or surviving example of
        >ivory beads used in the later middle ages in England /
        >Europe. Does anyone know better?

        Aha! I ran across one recently and had to re-think where I'd seen it.
        I don't know whether the 15th century is "late" by your definition,
        however.

        "...From his pilgrimage in 1418-19 the great Gascon lord Nompar II de
        Caumont (1391-1446) brought back in a coffer of cypress-wood a whole
        quantity of jewels bought in Jerusalem. There were **a set of
        paternoster beads of white ivory,** six other sets of 'black musk',
        and fifteen cords of paternoster beads of cypress wood and one of
        aloe-wood....."

        This is from p.78 of _Medieval European Jewellery_ by Ronald
        Lightbown (1992, Victoria & Albert Museum, ISBN 0-9481-0787-1). This
        book has an excellent chapter on Paternosters, with more information
        on the actual beads than any other source I've seen in English. This
        is a huge, lovely book that I wish I owned!
        --
        _________________________________________________________
        O Chris Laning
        | <claning@...>
        + Davis, California
        _________________________________________________________
      • Ruth Singer
        Hi, Aha! I ran across one recently and had to re-think where I d seen it. I don t know whether the 15th century is lateby your definition, however. certainly
        Message 3 of 3 , Dec 8, 2002
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          Hi,

          Aha! I ran across one recently and had to re-think
          where I'd seen it. I don't know whether the 15th
          century is lateby your definition, however.

          certainly is. perfect for me.

          what a fantastic quote.
          ANy idea what black musk is? fascinating.


          is a huge, lovely book that I wish I owned!<BR>


          me too - and its out of print! very frustrating.


          Ruth

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