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Re: Extracting an equirectanglar from a MOV

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  • John Houghton
    ... While you can effectively pan left and right using Photoshop s offset filter to change the view, you cannot likewise pan up and down. There is no
    Message 1 of 29 , Jun 3, 2007
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      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans Nyberg" <hans@...> wrote:
      > I can not see the problem why you can not use your original
      > equirectangular image and change the view with the offset filter.

      While you can effectively pan left and right using Photoshop's offset
      filter to change the view, you cannot likewise pan up and down. There
      is no wraparound vertically in the equirectangular image as there is
      horizontally. i.e. unlike the left and right sides of the
      equirectangular, the nadir and zenith are not contiguous on the 360x180
      sphere.

      You can change the view by remapping the image in PTGui and using the
      numerical transform option to move the required feature to the centre
      of the output area. If that's all that's required, then the job is
      done. However, if a .mov file is generated from that remapped image,
      it will not behave at all like the original movie, although it may
      start by displaying the required view. It will exhibit all the faults
      of an unlevelled panorama.

      John
    • Sacha Griffin
      That s quite right now that I think about it. It s pointless to do what Pat wants. He only needs to extract the tilt information for viewer reference, and
      Message 2 of 29 , Jun 3, 2007
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        That's quite right now that I think about it. It's pointless to do what Pat
        wants. He only needs to extract the tilt information for viewer reference,
        and possibly the pan information if you want to do SOME orientation.

        Pan is easily done with the offset as everyone has suggested.



        I wonder however, if there couldn't be some standard extension in the IPTC
        or exif data for initial viewpoint.

        Sacha Griffin
        Southern Digital Solutions LLC
        www.southern-digital.com
        www.seeit360.net
        www.ezphotosafe.com
        404-551-4275
        404-731-7798

        _____

        From: John Houghton [mailto:j.houghton@...]
        Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 1:05 PM
        To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Extracting an equirectanglar from a MOV



        --- In PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
        "Hans Nyberg" <hans@...> wrote:
        > I can not see the problem why you can not use your original
        > equirectangular image and change the view with the offset filter.

        While you can effectively pan left and right using Photoshop's offset
        filter to change the view, you cannot likewise pan up and down. There
        is no wraparound vertically in the equirectangular image as there is
        horizontally. i.e. unlike the left and right sides of the
        equirectangular, the nadir and zenith are not contiguous on the 360x180
        sphere.

        You can change the view by remapping the image in PTGui and using the
        numerical transform option to move the required feature to the centre
        of the output area. If that's all that's required, then the job is
        done. However, if a .mov file is generated from that remapped image,
        it will not behave at all like the original movie, although it may
        start by displaying the required view. It will exhibit all the faults
        of an unlevelled panorama.

        John





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Mickael Therer
        20+ posts later I m still wondering why you d need to do that ? link and case-story would certainly help me understand and figure ways around -m ... don t
        Message 3 of 29 , Jun 3, 2007
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          20+ posts later I'm still wondering why you'd need to do that ?
          link and case-story would certainly help me understand and figure ways
          around

          -m

          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Pat Swovelin <Panoramas@...> wrote:
          >
          > Is there a way to extract an equirectangular image from a MOV?
          >
          > I need to be able to do this and maintain the initial view in the
          > repositioned MOV (that's very different from the original
          > equirectangular image). In effect I want to decompile the MOV. I
          don't
          > want to have to go back and regenerate the equirectangular image from
          > PTGui because ofttimes there is MAJOR post-production work that I don't
          > want to be forced to do all over again.
          >
          > I'm on a PC if that effects your answer.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Pat Swovelin
          > Cool Guy @ Large
          >
        • Pat Swovelin
          ... And therein lays the rub, virtually every time I set an initial view it includes both pan and tilt. I did a quick test with this concept and as promising
          Message 4 of 29 , Jun 3, 2007
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            Ingemar Bergmark wrote:
            >> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Pat Swovelin <Panoramas@...>
            >> wrote:
            >>
            >> *Aarrrgh!* There's got to be a way to be able to do it on a PC.
            >>
            >>> But it is easy to just open it in photoshop and change the view
            >>> with the offset filter.
            >> Not if the initial view is tilted up/down because that will wrap
            >> the distorted top and bottom edges to someplace in the middle of
            >> the image.
            >>
            >>> Hans
            >
            > Maybe this will help?
            >
            > o) Create and equirectangular image from the Cube-faces with Pano2QTVR.
            >
            > o) Use Photoshop and Panorama Tools like this:
            > - With PTAdjust Extract a 360 degree view (!)
            > Image settings:
            > HFOV: 360
            > Width and Height: = Same as original panorama Width and Height,
            > Format: PSphere
            > Yaw and Pitch: = Wherever you want your initial view
            >
            > Panorama Settings:
            > HFOV: 360
            > Format: PSphere
            >
            > After this I think you'll get the view that you want. However if you've
            > adjusted the Pitch, then you'll get a wavy horizon!

            And therein lays the rub, virtually every time I set an initial view it
            includes both pan and tilt.

            I did a quick test with this concept and as promising as it sounded it
            doesn't work because the bottom of the pano is now off to the side and
            it looked like it was shot with the new nauseacam (I was getting ill as
            I panned around). Darn it.

            > Regards,
            > Ingemar Bergmark
            > http://panoramas.bergmark.com
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >


            --
            Pat Swovelin
            Cool Guy @ Large
          • Pat Swovelin
            ... Exactly. The problem, as it turns out is that when you have a different equirectangular image (based on some pan and tilt numbers) the bottom of the pano
            Message 5 of 29 , Jun 3, 2007
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              Hans Nyberg wrote:
              > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Pat Swovelin <Panoramas@...> wrote:
              >> Hans Nyberg wrote:
              >>> You can only do this on Mac with Cubic Converter.
              >> *Aarrrgh!* There's got to be a way to be able to do it on a PC.
              >>
              >>> But it is easy to just open it in photoshop and change the view with
              >>> the offset filter.
              >> Not if the initial view is tilted up/down because that will wrap the
              >> distorted top and bottom edges to someplace in the middle of the image.
              >
              > I can not see the problem why you can not use your original
              > equirectangular image and
              > change the view with the offset filter. I do that all the time with
              > extracted images from the
              > movies I get.
              >
              > If I understand you right you want the center of the equirectangular
              > image to be at the
              > same initial center as the movie. I am not sure how Pano2QTVR does it
              > but I assume you
              > have done some settings in the conversion which have changed the
              > initial view.
              > That is just a setting in the movie and has nothing to do with the
              > cubefaces.
              >
              > Your extracted cubefaces will always be at zero tilt so you do not get
              > any changes like you
              > assume. Your reassembled equirectangular will be exactly as your original.

              Exactly. The problem, as it turns out is that when you have a different
              equirectangular image (based on some pan and tilt numbers) the bottom of
              the pano is now off to the side and the thing looks like it was shot
              with the new NauseaCam (it made me ill just to look at it). So the
              concept of having a new equirectangular image that's pre-tilted and
              panned won't work (darn it).

              > Hans




              Pat Swovelin
              Cool Guy @ Large
            • Pat Swovelin
              ... Thanks but as it turns out it won t work because a differently positioned equirectangular image will have the bottom off to the side and the verticals are
              Message 6 of 29 , Jun 3, 2007
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                Guillaume Fulchiron wrote:
                > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Pat Swovelin <Panoramas@...> wrote:
                >
                >> It doesn't have to be automated but I do want to be able to extract an
                >> equirectangular image from a MOV and be able to create, for example, a
                >> Flash pano with the same initial view as the MOV.
                >>
                >
                > Hi Pat,
                >
                > maybe one solution would be to use PanocubePlus which is able to
                > convert .mov file into equirectangular .tif file in a drag and drop
                > process.
                >
                > Then make a small copy of the .tif file (eg. 500x1000 px) and play
                > with it into Pano2qtvr to find quickly the same initial view as your
                > original .mov. Once you found it, launch Pano2qtvr with the big .tif file.
                >
                > http://www.panoshow.com/panocubeplus.htm
                >
                > Just my 2 cts.

                Thanks but as it turns out it won't work because a differently
                positioned equirectangular image will have the bottom off to the side
                and the verticals are all over the place.

                Darn it.

                > Rgds,
                >
                > G.




                Pat Swovelin
                Cool Guy @ Large
              • Pat Swovelin
                ... Clearly that s what I ll have to do. I don t know what I was thinking but clearly wasn t in the equation. I think I need a nap ... ... or a beer.
                Message 7 of 29 , Jun 3, 2007
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                  Bjørn K Nilssen wrote:
                  > On 3 Jun 2007 at 1:33, Pat Swovelin wrote:
                  >
                  >> Bjørn K Nilssen wrote:
                  >>> I'm not quite sure if I understand your problem?
                  >>>
                  >>> Are you simply trying to get an equirect with the center of it at the
                  >>> same pan value as
                  >>> in the original mov?
                  >> No, I need to be able to do it with the MOV's current initial view.
                  >>
                  >>> Can't you just do that very easily with the offset tool in PS?
                  >> No, because that will wrap the distorted top and bottom edges to
                  >> someplace in the middle of the image if the repositioned MOV's initial
                  >> view is looking up.
                  >
                  > Are you tryng to get an equirect that is tilted the same as the
                  > initial view in the .mov?
                  > You can do that in PTgui, but the result will be a very wavy horizon !
                  >
                  >>> Or use PTgui to do it (as
                  >>> well as assemble the cube faces)?
                  >>> But if you want this as an automated process, reading the initial view
                  >>> from the .mov and
                  >>> all, it's a totally different story...--
                  >> It doesn't have to be automated but I do want to be able to extract an
                  >> equirectangular image from a MOV and be able to create, for example, a
                  >> Flash pano with the same initial view as the MOV.
                  >
                  > I would think that most viewers allow you to set an initial view,
                  > regardless of the
                  > source image?

                  Clearly that's what I'll have to do. I don't know what I was thinking
                  but "clearly" wasn't in the equation. I think I need a nap ...

                  ... or a beer.

                  Probably both.




                  Pat Swovelin
                  Cool Guy @ Large
                • Pat Swovelin
                  ... Thanks, Milko. ... Pat Swovelin Cool Guy @ Large
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jun 3, 2007
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                    Milko Amorth wrote:
                    > Hi Pat,
                    >
                    >> *Aarrrgh!* There's got to be a way to be able to do it on a PC.
                    > The initial view has nothing to do with the tilings. What ever is 0,0 at
                    > the time of tiling will be tile 0 or 1. These 3Dcords get wired later
                    > upon
                    > input of wysiwyg or numerical setting.
                    >
                    > Panotools PTAdjust plugin will extract from your eq whatever cords you
                    > put
                    > in. You have to know the cords of the initial view. You could load the
                    > original movie into DevalVR viewer and show the camera infos to read the
                    > coords for tilt and pan.

                    Thanks, Milko.

                    > Cheers, Milko




                    Pat Swovelin
                    Cool Guy @ Large
                  • Pat Swovelin
                    ... Man, did it ever. It was making me ill just to look at it. ... Pat Swovelin Cool Guy @ Large
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jun 3, 2007
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                      John Houghton wrote:
                      > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans Nyberg" <hans@...> wrote:
                      >> I can not see the problem why you can not use your original
                      >> equirectangular image and change the view with the offset filter.
                      >
                      > While you can effectively pan left and right using Photoshop's offset
                      > filter to change the view, you cannot likewise pan up and down. There
                      > is no wraparound vertically in the equirectangular image as there is
                      > horizontally. i.e. unlike the left and right sides of the
                      > equirectangular, the nadir and zenith are not contiguous on the 360x180
                      > sphere.
                      >
                      > You can change the view by remapping the image in PTGui and using the
                      > numerical transform option to move the required feature to the centre
                      > of the output area. If that's all that's required, then the job is
                      > done. However, if a .mov file is generated from that remapped image,
                      > it will not behave at all like the original movie, although it may
                      > start by displaying the required view. It will exhibit all the faults
                      > of an unlevelled panorama.

                      Man, did it ever. It was making me ill just to look at it.

                      > John




                      Pat Swovelin
                      Cool Guy @ Large
                    • Pat Swovelin
                      An extracted equirect can t possibly work. *THANKS* for all of your help everyone and I m sorry I ve wasted your valuable time. Thankfully this IS the end of
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jun 3, 2007
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                        An extracted equirect can't possibly work. *THANKS* for all of your
                        help everyone and I'm sorry I've wasted your valuable time.

                        Thankfully this IS the end of the thread.




                        Pat Swovelin
                        Cool Guy @ Large
                      • Eric O'Brien
                        I think you are proceeding under a false assumption. The front cube face and the center (left-right) portion of the equirectangular image MIGHT correspond to
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jun 3, 2007
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                          I think you are proceeding under a false assumption.

                          The "front" cube face and the center (left-right) portion of the
                          equirectangular image MIGHT correspond to the Initial View values of
                          a QTVR movie, but there is nothing that says they MUST.

                          Further, neither the exacted cube faces, nor an extracted
                          equirectangular image contain information that corresponds to the
                          Initial View values for a QTVR movie. [It is true that the data
                          inside a QTVR movie, probably tiles, can be reordered so that tiles
                          "in front of" the viewer occur earlier in the file, but trying to
                          unravel THAT to figure out the initial view seems like far more work
                          than is necessary, especially since the initial view info is ALREADY
                          IN a QTVR movie.]

                          That is, you CANNOT reliably derive the initial angle of view (and
                          zoom, or window size) from the extracted cube faces. Assuming that's
                          what you're hoping to do. That information is not in there!

                          eo

                          On Jun 3, 2007, at 5:24 PM, Pat Swovelin wrote:

                          > Hans Nyberg wrote:
                          >> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Pat Swovelin <Panoramas@...>
                          >> wrote:
                          >>> Hans Nyberg wrote:
                          >>>> You can only do this on Mac with Cubic Converter.
                          >>> *Aarrrgh!* There's got to be a way to be able to do it on a PC.
                          >>>
                          >>>> But it is easy to just open it in photoshop and change the view
                          >>>> with
                          >>>> the offset filter.
                          >>> Not if the initial view is tilted up/down because that will wrap the
                          >>> distorted top and bottom edges to someplace in the middle of the
                          >>> image.
                          >>
                          >> I can not see the problem why you can not use your original
                          >> equirectangular image and
                          >> change the view with the offset filter. I do that all the time with
                          >> extracted images from the
                          >> movies I get.
                          >>
                          >> If I understand you right you want the center of the equirectangular
                          >> image to be at the
                          >> same initial center as the movie. I am not sure how Pano2QTVR does it
                          >> but I assume you
                          >> have done some settings in the conversion which have changed the
                          >> initial view.
                          >> That is just a setting in the movie and has nothing to do with the
                          >> cubefaces.
                          >>
                          >> Your extracted cubefaces will always be at zero tilt so you do not
                          >> get
                          >> any changes like you
                          >> assume. Your reassembled equirectangular will be exactly as your
                          >> original.
                          >
                          > Exactly. The problem, as it turns out is that when you have a
                          > different
                          > equirectangular image (based on some pan and tilt numbers) the
                          > bottom of
                          > the pano is now off to the side and the thing looks like it was shot
                          > with the new NauseaCam (it made me ill just to look at it). So the
                          > concept of having a new equirectangular image that's pre-tilted and
                          > panned won't work (darn it).
                          >
                          >> Hans
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