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CS3 software pricing disparity

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  • Steve Climpson
    If you use Adobe software, e.g. photoshop, and are thinking of upgrading to CS3 then you may be interested to learn of the huge price disparity if you buy
    Message 1 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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      If you use Adobe software, e.g. photoshop, and are thinking of upgrading to
      CS3 then you may be interested to learn of the huge price disparity if you
      buy outside of the USA.
      The Pro Imaging group (www.pro-imaging.org) of professional photographers is
      launching an email campaign against this starting at 4pm Monday to arrive in
      the morning in California.
      If interested then please send the letter (or write your own) below to the 4
      email addresses listed.

      There is a petition started at
      http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/fair-pricing-for-european-software.html


      Kind Regards

      Steve

      Steve Climpson

      Pro Imaging

      ---------------------------

      Bruce Chizen <bchizen@...>

      John Nack <jnack@...>

      Kevin Conner <kevin.connor@...>

      english-custserv@...


      Dear Adobe,

      As an avid and professional long term user of your products, I, like many
      professional colleagues in several countries outside of the USA, notably
      Britain and Europe, have finally been forced to write and say how absolutely
      appalled we are with the huge pricing anomalies of your Creative Suite
      products between our countries. There is no question about the sheer
      excellence of your products, so our grievance is purely and simply the
      extraordinary differences in pricing between the US and elsewhere which
      penalises thousands of users simply because of where we live.

      Most of us can now easily download upgrades from the web without any need
      for packaging, original CDs or posting. There is no high cost of doing
      e-commerce and electronic business with the UK or  the rest of the world
      when it is simply a matter of downloading from servers, USA or not. We
      simply make payment, subject to our own taxes of course and download from
      your servers. You simply bank the money, it makes no difference to Adobe
      whether we are in the US, the UK or anywhere else in the world.

      If the differences were only slight it could perhaps be due to certain trade
      laws but we are seeing enormous variations which are just too hard to
      understand let alone justify.

      Observed prices as follows:

      Here is the comparison - no sales tax and using Yahoo UK's up to date
      exchange calculator:


      Sterling Prices US UK

      CS3 Upgrade £224 £465
      CS3 Full £916 £1,409

      Dollar Prices US UK

      CS3 Upgrade $440 $912
      CS3 Full $1,799 $2,766

      Many of us have supported your company and products for years and many of us
      have also been free beta testers for your products to offer feedback and
      advice on bugs, needs and glitches.

      In this modern day and age, discrimination of any sort is frowned upon but
      as we all know is still goes on. However, with a company the size of yours
      it is very surprising that you so blatantly adopt such an attitude.

      On several world wide lists, there is a lot of talk about your unfair
      pricing policies and it is true to say that your public image is definitely
      being eroded by this latest fiasco.

      Many of us have continued to persuade friends, colleagues and students to
      buy full legal copies of your software but with such blatant and unnecessary
      discrimination like this, I start to understand why so many people go down
      the illegal route!

      Respect is two way, we have respect for your products and your intellectual
      property.  I believe we deserve much more respect in return and that Adobe
      should re-address this disgusting imbalance against Britain and it would
      seem several other countries.

      Yours faithfully
    • Ian Wood
      Steve, this information was already posted to the list yesterday by Paul Fawley. Ian
      Message 2 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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        Steve, this information was already posted to the list yesterday by
        Paul Fawley.

        Ian
      • Matthew Rogers
        Hi Ian, True, but not all emails sent to this list make it through for some reason. Quite often it s difficult to follow certain threads due to missing emails
        Message 3 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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          Hi Ian,

          True, but not all emails sent to this list make it through for some
          reason. Quite often it's difficult to follow certain threads due to
          missing emails or private replies. I know I'm missing emails because
          I can often read the emails I've missed as quotes in other replies. I
          think it's time the moderators seriously considered moving this list
          to a more stable platform.

          Matt

          On 1 Apr 2007, at 14:21, Ian Wood wrote:

          > Steve, this information was already posted to the list yesterday by
          > Paul Fawley.
          >
          > Ian
          >
          >
        • Erik Krause
          ... Strange enough, I get all mails. I d suggest that any user who gets the impression he didn t get all mails first checks the bouncing mail list at
          Message 4 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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            On Sunday, April 01, 2007 at 14:36, Matthew Rogers wrote:

            > I know I'm missing emails because
            > I can often read the emails I've missed as quotes in other replies. I
            > think it's time the moderators seriously considered moving this list
            > to a more stable platform.

            Strange enough, I get all mails. I'd suggest that any user who gets
            the impression he didn't get all mails first checks the bouncing mail
            list at
            http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/members?group=bounce
            and then looks whether eventually a spam filter ate up the mails or
            his/her mailbox was over quota.

            Since I check the bounce list on a regular basis I know that these
            are the most frequent reasons for bouncing mails - and there you find
            only the cases where the mail server responds and does not eat up the
            mail silently.

            I strongly recommend putting PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com on a white
            list if anything like that exists on your mail server. Another
            possibility is to read the list via NNTP newsreader, where you have
            the additional advantage of a nice threaded view. A detailed
            description how to use thunderbird for that task can be found on
            http://wiki.panotools.org/PanoTools:Newsreader

            Please don't reply to that message - the correct place for such
            discussions is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Panotools-List/

            best regards
            --
            Erik Krause
            PanotoolsNG and Panotools-List moderator
          • Hans Nyberg
            ... Well there is a difference but I advice you to check the prices. This guy does not seem to be able to read The US price for the Adobe Creative Suite 3
            Message 5 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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              On Apr 1, 2007, at 3:17 PM, Steve Climpson wrote:

              > If you use Adobe software, e.g. photoshop, and are thinking of
              > upgrading to
              > CS3 then you may be interested to learn of the huge price disparity
              > if you
              > buy outside of the USA.
              > The Pro Imaging group (www.pro-imaging.org) of professional
              > photographers is
              > launching an email campaign against this starting at 4pm Monday to
              > arrive in
              > the morning in California.
              > If interested then please send the letter (or write your own) below
              > to the 4
              > email addresses listed.
              >
              > There is a petition started at
              > http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/fair-pricing-for-european-
              > software.html


              Well there is a difference but I advice you to check the prices.

              This guy does not seem to be able to read

              The US price for the Adobe Creative Suite 3 Design Standard upgrade
              from Photoshop, Illustrator ETC. is not $599 but US $899.00
              Here are the UK and German prices.

              UK
              599pound +vat = 1179 USD

              Germany
              849 euro+VAT english = 1135 USD

              This makes the differences much smaller.
              Actually they always been this as long as I remember.
              Of course if you want a German or a Danish version you have to pay a
              little more but that has also always been the case.

              Hans

              Hans Nyberg
              Panoramas.dk<http://www.panoramas.dk> Features Fullscreen QTVR from
              the best VR Photographers
              email: hans@...
            • Hans Nyberg
              ... Yes and in addition the prices this guy is claiming are not correct. Hans
              Message 6 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Ian Wood <panolists@...> wrote:
                >
                > Steve, this information was already posted to the list yesterday by
                > Paul Fawley.
                >


                Yes and in addition the prices this guy is claiming are not correct.

                Hans
              • John Houghton
                ... upgrade ... Hans, The prices quoted in the letter seem to match the Adobe Creative Suite Premium and accurately reflect what I found on the UK and US
                Message 7 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Hans Nyberg <hans@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > This guy does not seem to be able to read
                  >
                  > The US price for the Adobe Creative Suite 3 Design Standard
                  upgrade
                  > from Photoshop, Illustrator ETC. is not $599 but US $899.00
                  > Here are the UK and German prices.
                  >
                  > UK
                  > 599pound +vat = 1179 USD

                  Hans, The prices quoted in the letter seem to match the Adobe
                  Creative Suite Premium and accurately reflect what I found on the UK
                  and US sites. You say the US price for Creative Suite 3 Design
                  Standard u/g is not $599 but $899. But there is no mention in the
                  letter that I can see of $599 anywhere. Furthermore, the price of
                  the Standard u/g product is given on the US site as $240, not $899.
                  Perhaps we are looking at different lists or not comparing like with
                  like. Maybe you could clarify your figures.

                  Also, 599 UKP +vat = 703 UKP = 1383 USD (vat @ 17.5%)

                  John
                • Steve Climpson
                  ... I m aware of that but Paul did not post the link to the online petition. I also think its worth pointing out that this is grossly unfair to the Europeans
                  Message 8 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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                    On 1/4/07 14:21, "Ian Wood" <panolists@...> wrote:

                    >> Steve, this information was already posted to the list yesterday by
                    >> Paul Fawley.
                    >>

                    I'm aware of that but Paul did not post the link to the online petition.
                    I also think its worth pointing out that this is grossly unfair to the
                    Europeans and shows a very strange attitude to a large user base.
                    >

                    On 1/4/07 16:15, "Hans Nyberg" <hans@...> wrote:

                    > Yes and in addition the prices this guy is claiming are not correct.

                    They are taken from the adobe UK & US site today and refer to Adobe Creative
                    Suite 3 Design Premium. The UK upgrade for this is 465 GBP ex vat whereas
                    the USA is 440 dollars.
                    The Adobe Creative Suite 3 Design Standard upgrade in the UK is 289 GBP ex
                    vat whereas in the USA its 240 USD
                    I'll let readers do the conversion from one currency to another.
                    I believe that the disparity is even worse in other counties.

                    Kind Regards

                    Steve

                    Steve Climpson

                    Pro Imaging
                  • Hans Nyberg
                    ... Sorry but that is not what he says Quote With new products comes new pricing... fair enough. However, prices for the same product (i.e. the mac design
                    Message 9 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Steve Climpson <steve@...> wrote:

                      > On 1/4/07 16:15, "Hans Nyberg" <hans@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > Yes and in addition the prices this guy is claiming are not correct.
                      >
                      > They are taken from the adobe UK & US site today and refer to Adobe Creative
                      > Suite 3 Design Premium. The UK upgrade for this is 465 GBP ex vat whereas
                      > the USA is 440 dollars.
                      > The Adobe Creative Suite 3 Design Standard upgrade in the UK is 289 GBP ex
                      > vat whereas in the USA its 240 USD
                      > I'll let readers do the conversion from one currency to another.
                      > I believe that the disparity is even worse in other counties.

                      Sorry but that is not what he says
                      Quote
                      With new products comes new pricing... fair enough. However, prices for the
                      same product (i.e. the mac design upgrade from CS2) go from 599$ for an
                      upgrade in the US to 1'057$ in Switzerland and 1'134$ in France and Germany,
                      the worse being 1'178 $ for the UK... not fair enough! (all prices excl. tax).

                      Prices in Europe have always been a little higher, but 190% is pushing i
                      End of Quote

                      As you can see this is not the premium.
                      The upgrade prices he quotes for Germany and UK are the same as i have found
                      UK
                      599pound +vat = 1179 USD +VAT
                      Germany
                      849 euro+VAT english = 1135 USD +VAT
                      However he claims that the US upgrade is $599 which is a large difference from the true
                      $899

                      The real differences are not at all 190% as he claims but 120-30% max

                      What you also has to remember is that the dolarr now is very cheap.
                      You can not calculate euro prices on that.
                      If the dollar just gains to the price it had a couple of months ago the difference will be
                      much less. Adobe is not changing price here in Europe because the dollar gains 10%
                      This is also the same the other way when european companies sell in US.

                      Hans
                    • Hans Nyberg
                      ... John I am referring to the website he is linking to. http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/fair-pricing-for-european-software.html Hans
                      Message 10 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "John Houghton" <j.houghton@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Hans Nyberg <hans@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > This guy does not seem to be able to read
                        > >
                        > > The US price for the Adobe Creative Suite 3 Design Standard
                        > upgrade
                        > > from Photoshop, Illustrator ETC. is not $599 but US $899.00
                        > > Here are the UK and German prices.
                        > >
                        > > UK
                        > > 599pound +vat = 1179 USD
                        >
                        > Hans, The prices quoted in the letter seem to match the Adobe
                        > Creative Suite Premium and accurately reflect what I found on the UK
                        > and US sites. You say the US price for Creative Suite 3 Design
                        > Standard u/g is not $599 but $899. But there is no mention in the
                        > letter that I can see of $599 anywhere. Furthermore, the price of
                        > the Standard u/g product is given on the US site as $240, not $899.
                        > Perhaps we are looking at different lists or not comparing like with
                        > like. Maybe you could clarify your figures.

                        John
                        I am referring to the website he is linking to.
                        http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/fair-pricing-for-european-software.html

                        Hans
                      • Paul F
                        ... Tis true, yahoo is not very reliable, with missing posts, bouncing accounts, multiple deliveries etc. Steve Climpson is one of the people who has put time
                        Message 11 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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                          On 1 Apr 2007, at 14:36, Matthew Rogers wrote:

                          > Hi Ian,
                          >
                          > True, but not all emails sent to this list make it through for some
                          > reason. Quite often it's difficult to follow certain threads due to
                          > missing emails or private replies. I know I'm missing emails because
                          > I can often read the emails I've missed as quotes in other replies. I
                          > think it's time the moderators seriously considered moving this list
                          > to a more stable platform.
                          >

                          Tis true,

                          yahoo is not very reliable, with missing posts, bouncing accounts,
                          multiple deliveries etc.

                          Steve Climpson is one of the people who has put time into this and
                          other campaigns with great results in the past.
                          Can I just add that anyone considering sending the adobe email also
                          cc it to bjp.editor@..., at least then someone will have
                          some indication of the
                          number of participants.

                          Cheers

                          P
                        • Steve Climpson
                          ... I m sorry but there is some confusion here. The petition I mentioned was not started by Pro Imaging and nothing to do with me and I should have pointed
                          Message 12 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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                            On 1/4/07 18:20, "Hans Nyberg" <hans@...> wrote:

                            > I am referring to the website he is linking to.
                            > http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/fair-pricing-for-european-software.html

                            I'm sorry but there is some confusion here. The petition I mentioned was not
                            started by Pro Imaging and nothing to do with me and I should have pointed
                            that out. I admit that the figures on the petition site are a little suspect
                            but in the letter I posted the figures are accurate as of todays Adobe
                            website.
                            I'll write to the person who started the petition and suggest that he checks
                            his figures.

                            Meanwhile the main thrust of the argument that Adobe has huge price
                            disparities between the USA and non USA and that this is unfair is correct.

                            Kind Regards

                            Steve

                            Steve Climpson

                            Pro Imaging
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