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PS C3 + Nadir patching

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  • Michael Quan
    What is the current best practice/work flow on nadir patching using the tools in Photoshop CS3? I ve exported my cube faces, and I need to patch the hole in
    Message 1 of 23 , Mar 29, 2007
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      What is the current best practice/work flow on nadir patching using
      the tools in Photoshop CS3?

      I've exported my cube faces, and I need to patch the hole in the nadir
      where the tripod was.

      I have a handheld "down" shop to fill in the hole.

      I 've tried patching the hole in the bottom cube face with Edit >
      AUTO-ALIGN LAYERS, and then AUTO-BLEND LAYERS.

      It seems to work OK, but I'm wondering if others have suggestions,
      tips, or bad jokes.

      Mike Quan

      http://conference.ivrpa.org
    • dmgalpha
      ... Mike, THis is not the best, but it is the way I do it (which I learnt from Bruno--it requires panotools): Generate a cassini projection of the original
      Message 2 of 23 , Mar 29, 2007
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        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Michael Quan <quantumvr@...> wrote:
        >
        > What is the current best practice/work flow on nadir patching using
        > the tools in Photoshop CS3?
        >
        > I've exported my cube faces, and I need to patch the hole in the nadir
        > where the tripod was.
        >
        > I have a handheld "down" shop to fill in the hole.
        >
        > I 've tried patching the hole in the bottom cube face with Edit >
        > AUTO-ALIGN LAYERS, and then AUTO-BLEND LAYERS.
        >
        > It seems to work OK, but I'm wondering if others have suggestions,
        > tips, or bad jokes.
        >
        > Mike Quan
        >
        > http://conference.ivrpa.org
        >


        Mike,

        THis is not the best, but it is the way I do it (which I learnt from
        Bruno--it requires panotools):

        Generate a cassini projection of the original scene.
        Load the cassini and the handheld into Hugin, set multiple control points
        and optimize only the handheld (all parameters). It needs a good
        number of control points because you are optimizing lots of values.
        This is a step that could be done with the autoalign in photoshop, but
        I don't know (I haven't used CS 3 yet)

        Then remap the handheld, load cassini and remapped into photoshop. do
        the automerge.

        Now the cassini can be used to generate whatever projection you want.

        dmg
      • Erik Krause
        ... The cassini is probably not necessary. I optimize the nadir directly in the ready optimized equirect: http://wiki.panotools.org/Stitching_Nadir_Shots But
        Message 3 of 23 , Mar 29, 2007
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          On Thursday, March 29, 2007 at 19:04, dmgalpha wrote:

          > THis is not the best, but it is the way I do it (which I learnt from
          > Bruno--it requires panotools):
          >
          > Generate a cassini projection of the original scene.
          > Load the cassini and the handheld into Hugin, set multiple control points
          > and optimize only the handheld (all parameters). It needs a good
          > number of control points because you are optimizing lots of values.
          > This is a step that could be done with the autoalign in photoshop, but
          > I don't know (I haven't used CS 3 yet)
          >
          > Then remap the handheld, load cassini and remapped into photoshop. do
          > the automerge.
          >
          > Now the cassini can be used to generate whatever projection you want.

          The cassini is probably not necessary. I optimize the nadir directly
          in the ready optimized equirect:
          http://wiki.panotools.org/Stitching_Nadir_Shots

          But the question was how to do it with CS3. Well I can't say much
          about that - only that I wouldn't use it. I doubt the auto align
          layer can apply any transformations other than shift, rotation and
          may be size. panotools is far better than that...

          best regards
          --
          Copyright (c) 2007 Erik Krause
          Verbatim copying and distribution strictly forbidden
          except those allowed in wiki.panotools.org/User_Guidelines
        • Andrey Ilyin
          I use similar technique, but align images manually - imo it lets to achieve more precise alighnment. The nadir patching never was so easy!
          Message 4 of 23 , Mar 29, 2007
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            I use similar technique, but align images manually - imo it lets to
            achieve more precise alighnment. The nadir patching never was so easy!
          • Jim Watters
            ... I believe Adobe is using the photomerge that is in Photoshop Elements which I believe can do more than shift and rotate. I think it does a bit of morphing
            Message 5 of 23 , Mar 29, 2007
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              Erik Krause wrote:
              > But the question was how to do it with CS3. Well I can't say much
              > about that - only that I wouldn't use it. I doubt the auto align
              > layer can apply any transformations other than shift, rotation and
              > may be size. panotools is far better than that...
              >
              > best regards
              >
              I believe Adobe is using the photomerge that is in Photoshop Elements
              which I believe can do more than shift and rotate. I think it does a
              bit of morphing to align the images. I too have not used CS3, so can
              not say for sure. I think the trick would be to create a masks. Mask
              so the patch replaces everything you want the patch to replace.

              But to quote Ken Turkoski

              The new Photoshop CS3 stitcher uses the latest techniques. The
              registration is sparse but robust. No longer do you need to find the
              best partition curve - PS CS3 does it for you. The blending is
              probably powerful enough to generate HDR. I'm sure you will like it.

              It currently doesn't do spheres or cubes, nor does it produce QTVR
              files directly.

              -Ken


              --
              Jim Watters

              jwatters @ photocreations . ca
              http://photocreations.ca
            • John Houghton
              ... The problem with auto-blending the bottom tiles is that it doesn t preserve the edges of the prime tile. This means it will not necessarily join
              Message 6 of 23 , Mar 30, 2007
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                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Michael Quan <quantumvr@...> wrote:
                >
                > I 've tried patching the hole in the bottom cube face with Edit >
                > AUTO-ALIGN LAYERS, and then AUTO-BLEND LAYERS.
                >
                > It seems to work OK,

                The problem with auto-blending the bottom tiles is that it doesn't
                preserve the edges of the prime tile. This means it will not
                necessarily join seamlessly with the other tiles when the full panorama
                image is re-assembled.

                John
              • Andrey Ilyin
                ... panorama ... Yes, I faced this problem a couple of times. The solution is simple - blend patch with the copy of background layer and after blending/
                Message 7 of 23 , Mar 30, 2007
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                  >
                  > The problem with auto-blending the bottom tiles is that it doesn't
                  > preserve the edges of the prime tile. This means it will not
                  > necessarily join seamlessly with the other tiles when the full
                  panorama
                  > image is re-assembled.
                  >
                  > John
                  >

                  Yes, I faced this problem a couple of times. The solution is simple
                  - blend patch with the copy of background layer and after blending/
                  merging insert only central part of patched layer with the help of
                  mask.

                  Andrey
                • Milko Amorth
                  Hello Micheal, ... See Eric Rougier s video tutorial: http://fromparis.com/html/technical_us_create_a_quicktime_vr_in_10mnts.php I have yet to see a smoother
                  Message 8 of 23 , Mar 30, 2007
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                    Hello Micheal,

                    > What is the current best practice/work flow on nadir patching using
                    > the tools in Photoshop CS3?

                    See Eric Rougier's video tutorial:
                    http://fromparis.com/html/technical_us_create_a_quicktime_vr_in_10mnts.php

                    I have yet to see a smoother or faster flow than that. PSCS2 will do it
                    too.
                    And he even has time to play guitar, doing it. :-))

                    Cheers, Milko



                    --
                    Milko Amorth
                    360° Immersive Imaging
                    Photographic Virtual Reality
                    VRCanada.ca
                    604.561.5101
                    Skype me @ vrdundee
                    Member of IVRPA.org
                    Contributor to the World Wide Panorama Project
                  • John Houghton
                    ... In effect, you have to blend twice: once automatically and once manually. John
                    Message 9 of 23 , Mar 30, 2007
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                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Andrey Ilyin" <andrey@...> wrote:
                      > Yes, I faced this problem a couple of times. The solution is simple
                      > - blend patch with the copy of background layer and after blending/
                      > merging insert only central part of patched layer with the help of
                      > mask.

                      In effect, you have to blend twice: once automatically and once
                      manually.

                      John
                    • Andrey Ilyin
                      ... Exactly! But the manual blend is very simple, a couple of touches with big brush more than enough. Andrey
                      Message 10 of 23 , Mar 30, 2007
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                        >
                        > In effect, you have to blend twice: once automatically and once
                        > manually.
                        >
                        > John
                        >

                        Exactly!

                        But the manual blend is very simple, a couple of touches with big
                        brush more than enough.

                        Andrey
                      • panovrx
                        ... using ... Mostly I have occasion to do nadir patching with tripod-shot interiors where the light level is not sufficient to do handheld down shots so I
                        Message 11 of 23 , Mar 30, 2007
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                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Michael Quan <quantumvr@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > What is the current best practice/work flow on nadir patching
                          using
                          > the tools in Photoshop CS3?

                          >
                          > Mike Quan
                          >
                          > http://conference.ivrpa.org

                          Mostly I have occasion to do nadir patching with tripod-shot
                          interiors where the light level is not sufficient to do handheld down
                          shots so I move the tripod off a bit to the side and shoot an oblique
                          shot from the tripod towards the nadir area (using a coin or similar
                          at the nadir as a target/reference). In this circumstance I dont
                          think calibration or auto-blending techniques have much utility. If
                          the nadir area is flat and horizontal, as it usually is, the main
                          thing I think is to warp that oblique nadir shot into one that
                          appears to be looking straight down. Then the geometry of the nadir
                          image will be the same as a vertically downward view of the actual
                          nadir area except the scale and rotation will be off.
                          Mostly I do this levelling of the oblique nadir shot by hand and eye
                          using the Panorama Editor component of PTGui. ie. I optimize the main
                          sequence, stitch this, add the oblique nadir image, delete all the
                          original images, set the panorama output to say 70*70 degrees
                          rectilinear, open the Panorama Editor, manually, visually level and
                          rotate the view so is is square on to the window. It is surprisingly
                          easy to do this quite accurately with most nadir areas. At least to
                          an apparent vertical view accuracy of a degree or less I would think.
                          Generate the panorama (nadir rectilinear view). Then extract a 70*70
                          view from the original panorama looking down, same rotation,
                          dimensions as the oblique nadir generated vertical view (trial and
                          error), then patch manually
                          etc ...

                          Peter
                          http://www.mediavr.com/blog
                        • Steve Climpson
                          If you use Adobe software, e.g. photoshop, and are thinking of upgrading to CS3 then you may be interested to learn of the huge price disparity if you buy
                          Message 12 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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                            If you use Adobe software, e.g. photoshop, and are thinking of upgrading to
                            CS3 then you may be interested to learn of the huge price disparity if you
                            buy outside of the USA.
                            The Pro Imaging group (www.pro-imaging.org) of professional photographers is
                            launching an email campaign against this starting at 4pm Monday to arrive in
                            the morning in California.
                            If interested then please send the letter (or write your own) below to the 4
                            email addresses listed.

                            There is a petition started at
                            http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/fair-pricing-for-european-software.html


                            Kind Regards

                            Steve

                            Steve Climpson

                            Pro Imaging

                            ---------------------------

                            Bruce Chizen <bchizen@...>

                            John Nack <jnack@...>

                            Kevin Conner <kevin.connor@...>

                            english-custserv@...


                            Dear Adobe,

                            As an avid and professional long term user of your products, I, like many
                            professional colleagues in several countries outside of the USA, notably
                            Britain and Europe, have finally been forced to write and say how absolutely
                            appalled we are with the huge pricing anomalies of your Creative Suite
                            products between our countries. There is no question about the sheer
                            excellence of your products, so our grievance is purely and simply the
                            extraordinary differences in pricing between the US and elsewhere which
                            penalises thousands of users simply because of where we live.

                            Most of us can now easily download upgrades from the web without any need
                            for packaging, original CDs or posting. There is no high cost of doing
                            e-commerce and electronic business with the UK or  the rest of the world
                            when it is simply a matter of downloading from servers, USA or not. We
                            simply make payment, subject to our own taxes of course and download from
                            your servers. You simply bank the money, it makes no difference to Adobe
                            whether we are in the US, the UK or anywhere else in the world.

                            If the differences were only slight it could perhaps be due to certain trade
                            laws but we are seeing enormous variations which are just too hard to
                            understand let alone justify.

                            Observed prices as follows:

                            Here is the comparison - no sales tax and using Yahoo UK's up to date
                            exchange calculator:


                            Sterling Prices US UK

                            CS3 Upgrade £224 £465
                            CS3 Full £916 £1,409

                            Dollar Prices US UK

                            CS3 Upgrade $440 $912
                            CS3 Full $1,799 $2,766

                            Many of us have supported your company and products for years and many of us
                            have also been free beta testers for your products to offer feedback and
                            advice on bugs, needs and glitches.

                            In this modern day and age, discrimination of any sort is frowned upon but
                            as we all know is still goes on. However, with a company the size of yours
                            it is very surprising that you so blatantly adopt such an attitude.

                            On several world wide lists, there is a lot of talk about your unfair
                            pricing policies and it is true to say that your public image is definitely
                            being eroded by this latest fiasco.

                            Many of us have continued to persuade friends, colleagues and students to
                            buy full legal copies of your software but with such blatant and unnecessary
                            discrimination like this, I start to understand why so many people go down
                            the illegal route!

                            Respect is two way, we have respect for your products and your intellectual
                            property.  I believe we deserve much more respect in return and that Adobe
                            should re-address this disgusting imbalance against Britain and it would
                            seem several other countries.

                            Yours faithfully
                          • Ian Wood
                            Steve, this information was already posted to the list yesterday by Paul Fawley. Ian
                            Message 13 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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                              Steve, this information was already posted to the list yesterday by
                              Paul Fawley.

                              Ian
                            • Matthew Rogers
                              Hi Ian, True, but not all emails sent to this list make it through for some reason. Quite often it s difficult to follow certain threads due to missing emails
                              Message 14 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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                                Hi Ian,

                                True, but not all emails sent to this list make it through for some
                                reason. Quite often it's difficult to follow certain threads due to
                                missing emails or private replies. I know I'm missing emails because
                                I can often read the emails I've missed as quotes in other replies. I
                                think it's time the moderators seriously considered moving this list
                                to a more stable platform.

                                Matt

                                On 1 Apr 2007, at 14:21, Ian Wood wrote:

                                > Steve, this information was already posted to the list yesterday by
                                > Paul Fawley.
                                >
                                > Ian
                                >
                                >
                              • Erik Krause
                                ... Strange enough, I get all mails. I d suggest that any user who gets the impression he didn t get all mails first checks the bouncing mail list at
                                Message 15 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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                                  On Sunday, April 01, 2007 at 14:36, Matthew Rogers wrote:

                                  > I know I'm missing emails because
                                  > I can often read the emails I've missed as quotes in other replies. I
                                  > think it's time the moderators seriously considered moving this list
                                  > to a more stable platform.

                                  Strange enough, I get all mails. I'd suggest that any user who gets
                                  the impression he didn't get all mails first checks the bouncing mail
                                  list at
                                  http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/members?group=bounce
                                  and then looks whether eventually a spam filter ate up the mails or
                                  his/her mailbox was over quota.

                                  Since I check the bounce list on a regular basis I know that these
                                  are the most frequent reasons for bouncing mails - and there you find
                                  only the cases where the mail server responds and does not eat up the
                                  mail silently.

                                  I strongly recommend putting PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com on a white
                                  list if anything like that exists on your mail server. Another
                                  possibility is to read the list via NNTP newsreader, where you have
                                  the additional advantage of a nice threaded view. A detailed
                                  description how to use thunderbird for that task can be found on
                                  http://wiki.panotools.org/PanoTools:Newsreader

                                  Please don't reply to that message - the correct place for such
                                  discussions is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Panotools-List/

                                  best regards
                                  --
                                  Erik Krause
                                  PanotoolsNG and Panotools-List moderator
                                • Hans Nyberg
                                  ... Well there is a difference but I advice you to check the prices. This guy does not seem to be able to read The US price for the Adobe Creative Suite 3
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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                                    On Apr 1, 2007, at 3:17 PM, Steve Climpson wrote:

                                    > If you use Adobe software, e.g. photoshop, and are thinking of
                                    > upgrading to
                                    > CS3 then you may be interested to learn of the huge price disparity
                                    > if you
                                    > buy outside of the USA.
                                    > The Pro Imaging group (www.pro-imaging.org) of professional
                                    > photographers is
                                    > launching an email campaign against this starting at 4pm Monday to
                                    > arrive in
                                    > the morning in California.
                                    > If interested then please send the letter (or write your own) below
                                    > to the 4
                                    > email addresses listed.
                                    >
                                    > There is a petition started at
                                    > http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/fair-pricing-for-european-
                                    > software.html


                                    Well there is a difference but I advice you to check the prices.

                                    This guy does not seem to be able to read

                                    The US price for the Adobe Creative Suite 3 Design Standard upgrade
                                    from Photoshop, Illustrator ETC. is not $599 but US $899.00
                                    Here are the UK and German prices.

                                    UK
                                    599pound +vat = 1179 USD

                                    Germany
                                    849 euro+VAT english = 1135 USD

                                    This makes the differences much smaller.
                                    Actually they always been this as long as I remember.
                                    Of course if you want a German or a Danish version you have to pay a
                                    little more but that has also always been the case.

                                    Hans

                                    Hans Nyberg
                                    Panoramas.dk<http://www.panoramas.dk> Features Fullscreen QTVR from
                                    the best VR Photographers
                                    email: hans@...
                                  • Hans Nyberg
                                    ... Yes and in addition the prices this guy is claiming are not correct. Hans
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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                                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Ian Wood <panolists@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Steve, this information was already posted to the list yesterday by
                                      > Paul Fawley.
                                      >


                                      Yes and in addition the prices this guy is claiming are not correct.

                                      Hans
                                    • John Houghton
                                      ... upgrade ... Hans, The prices quoted in the letter seem to match the Adobe Creative Suite Premium and accurately reflect what I found on the UK and US
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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                                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Hans Nyberg <hans@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > This guy does not seem to be able to read
                                        >
                                        > The US price for the Adobe Creative Suite 3 Design Standard
                                        upgrade
                                        > from Photoshop, Illustrator ETC. is not $599 but US $899.00
                                        > Here are the UK and German prices.
                                        >
                                        > UK
                                        > 599pound +vat = 1179 USD

                                        Hans, The prices quoted in the letter seem to match the Adobe
                                        Creative Suite Premium and accurately reflect what I found on the UK
                                        and US sites. You say the US price for Creative Suite 3 Design
                                        Standard u/g is not $599 but $899. But there is no mention in the
                                        letter that I can see of $599 anywhere. Furthermore, the price of
                                        the Standard u/g product is given on the US site as $240, not $899.
                                        Perhaps we are looking at different lists or not comparing like with
                                        like. Maybe you could clarify your figures.

                                        Also, 599 UKP +vat = 703 UKP = 1383 USD (vat @ 17.5%)

                                        John
                                      • Steve Climpson
                                        ... I m aware of that but Paul did not post the link to the online petition. I also think its worth pointing out that this is grossly unfair to the Europeans
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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                                          On 1/4/07 14:21, "Ian Wood" <panolists@...> wrote:

                                          >> Steve, this information was already posted to the list yesterday by
                                          >> Paul Fawley.
                                          >>

                                          I'm aware of that but Paul did not post the link to the online petition.
                                          I also think its worth pointing out that this is grossly unfair to the
                                          Europeans and shows a very strange attitude to a large user base.
                                          >

                                          On 1/4/07 16:15, "Hans Nyberg" <hans@...> wrote:

                                          > Yes and in addition the prices this guy is claiming are not correct.

                                          They are taken from the adobe UK & US site today and refer to Adobe Creative
                                          Suite 3 Design Premium. The UK upgrade for this is 465 GBP ex vat whereas
                                          the USA is 440 dollars.
                                          The Adobe Creative Suite 3 Design Standard upgrade in the UK is 289 GBP ex
                                          vat whereas in the USA its 240 USD
                                          I'll let readers do the conversion from one currency to another.
                                          I believe that the disparity is even worse in other counties.

                                          Kind Regards

                                          Steve

                                          Steve Climpson

                                          Pro Imaging
                                        • Hans Nyberg
                                          ... Sorry but that is not what he says Quote With new products comes new pricing... fair enough. However, prices for the same product (i.e. the mac design
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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                                            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Steve Climpson <steve@...> wrote:

                                            > On 1/4/07 16:15, "Hans Nyberg" <hans@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > > Yes and in addition the prices this guy is claiming are not correct.
                                            >
                                            > They are taken from the adobe UK & US site today and refer to Adobe Creative
                                            > Suite 3 Design Premium. The UK upgrade for this is 465 GBP ex vat whereas
                                            > the USA is 440 dollars.
                                            > The Adobe Creative Suite 3 Design Standard upgrade in the UK is 289 GBP ex
                                            > vat whereas in the USA its 240 USD
                                            > I'll let readers do the conversion from one currency to another.
                                            > I believe that the disparity is even worse in other counties.

                                            Sorry but that is not what he says
                                            Quote
                                            With new products comes new pricing... fair enough. However, prices for the
                                            same product (i.e. the mac design upgrade from CS2) go from 599$ for an
                                            upgrade in the US to 1'057$ in Switzerland and 1'134$ in France and Germany,
                                            the worse being 1'178 $ for the UK... not fair enough! (all prices excl. tax).

                                            Prices in Europe have always been a little higher, but 190% is pushing i
                                            End of Quote

                                            As you can see this is not the premium.
                                            The upgrade prices he quotes for Germany and UK are the same as i have found
                                            UK
                                            599pound +vat = 1179 USD +VAT
                                            Germany
                                            849 euro+VAT english = 1135 USD +VAT
                                            However he claims that the US upgrade is $599 which is a large difference from the true
                                            $899

                                            The real differences are not at all 190% as he claims but 120-30% max

                                            What you also has to remember is that the dolarr now is very cheap.
                                            You can not calculate euro prices on that.
                                            If the dollar just gains to the price it had a couple of months ago the difference will be
                                            much less. Adobe is not changing price here in Europe because the dollar gains 10%
                                            This is also the same the other way when european companies sell in US.

                                            Hans
                                          • Hans Nyberg
                                            ... John I am referring to the website he is linking to. http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/fair-pricing-for-european-software.html Hans
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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                                              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "John Houghton" <j.houghton@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Hans Nyberg <hans@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > This guy does not seem to be able to read
                                              > >
                                              > > The US price for the Adobe Creative Suite 3 Design Standard
                                              > upgrade
                                              > > from Photoshop, Illustrator ETC. is not $599 but US $899.00
                                              > > Here are the UK and German prices.
                                              > >
                                              > > UK
                                              > > 599pound +vat = 1179 USD
                                              >
                                              > Hans, The prices quoted in the letter seem to match the Adobe
                                              > Creative Suite Premium and accurately reflect what I found on the UK
                                              > and US sites. You say the US price for Creative Suite 3 Design
                                              > Standard u/g is not $599 but $899. But there is no mention in the
                                              > letter that I can see of $599 anywhere. Furthermore, the price of
                                              > the Standard u/g product is given on the US site as $240, not $899.
                                              > Perhaps we are looking at different lists or not comparing like with
                                              > like. Maybe you could clarify your figures.

                                              John
                                              I am referring to the website he is linking to.
                                              http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/fair-pricing-for-european-software.html

                                              Hans
                                            • Paul F
                                              ... Tis true, yahoo is not very reliable, with missing posts, bouncing accounts, multiple deliveries etc. Steve Climpson is one of the people who has put time
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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                                                On 1 Apr 2007, at 14:36, Matthew Rogers wrote:

                                                > Hi Ian,
                                                >
                                                > True, but not all emails sent to this list make it through for some
                                                > reason. Quite often it's difficult to follow certain threads due to
                                                > missing emails or private replies. I know I'm missing emails because
                                                > I can often read the emails I've missed as quotes in other replies. I
                                                > think it's time the moderators seriously considered moving this list
                                                > to a more stable platform.
                                                >

                                                Tis true,

                                                yahoo is not very reliable, with missing posts, bouncing accounts,
                                                multiple deliveries etc.

                                                Steve Climpson is one of the people who has put time into this and
                                                other campaigns with great results in the past.
                                                Can I just add that anyone considering sending the adobe email also
                                                cc it to bjp.editor@..., at least then someone will have
                                                some indication of the
                                                number of participants.

                                                Cheers

                                                P
                                              • Steve Climpson
                                                ... I m sorry but there is some confusion here. The petition I mentioned was not started by Pro Imaging and nothing to do with me and I should have pointed
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Apr 1, 2007
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                                                  On 1/4/07 18:20, "Hans Nyberg" <hans@...> wrote:

                                                  > I am referring to the website he is linking to.
                                                  > http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/fair-pricing-for-european-software.html

                                                  I'm sorry but there is some confusion here. The petition I mentioned was not
                                                  started by Pro Imaging and nothing to do with me and I should have pointed
                                                  that out. I admit that the figures on the petition site are a little suspect
                                                  but in the letter I posted the figures are accurate as of todays Adobe
                                                  website.
                                                  I'll write to the person who started the petition and suggest that he checks
                                                  his figures.

                                                  Meanwhile the main thrust of the argument that Adobe has huge price
                                                  disparities between the USA and non USA and that this is unfair is correct.

                                                  Kind Regards

                                                  Steve

                                                  Steve Climpson

                                                  Pro Imaging
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