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RE: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Speed up panotools - No masks

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  • Sacha Griffin
    That explains it nicely. Sacha Griffin Southern Digital Solutions LLC www.southern-digital.com www.seeit360.net www.ezphotosafe.com 404-551-4275 404-731-7798
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 1, 2007
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      That explains it nicely.



      Sacha Griffin
      Southern Digital Solutions LLC
      www.southern-digital.com
      www.seeit360.net
      www.ezphotosafe.com
      404-551-4275
      404-731-7798

      _____

      From: Erik Krause [mailto:erik.krause@...]
      Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 4:18 PM
      To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Speed up panotools - No masks



      On Thursday, March 01, 2007 at 15:09, Sacha Griffin wrote:

      > With cs3 masks aren't needed.
      > Output individual layers still creates masks.

      I don't understand fully. Which format do you output? TIFFs simply
      contain alpha channels which have to serve as a mask. PSDs contain
      both a clipping mask and a layer mask. The clipping mask is the limit
      of the single layer image and the layer mask can contain a feathered
      seam.

      If you use panotools for stitching you can output Photoshop without
      feather ("PSD_nomask") in which case the clipping mask and the layer
      mask are identical. No additional calculation step needed (but I
      don't know whether it is performed).

      Why should CS3 need no masks? It still needs to know where an image
      ends.

      best regards

      --
      Erik Krause
      Resources, not only for panorama creation:
      http://www.erik- <http://www.erik-krause.de/> krause.de/





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Hans Nyberg
      ... CS3 creates the masks it self. There is no need to have them in the layer saved from PTGui. Hans
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 1, 2007
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        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Sacha Griffin" <sachagriffin@...> wrote:
        >
        > Why should CS3 need no masks? It still needs to know where an image
        > ends.

        CS3 creates the masks it self.
        There is no need to have them in the layer saved from PTGui.

        Hans
      • Erik Krause
        ... You mean CS3 needs the clipping masks only and not the layer masks? This was the case for all other photoshop versions, too (except they didn t blend, of
        Message 3 of 12 , Mar 1, 2007
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          On Thursday, March 01, 2007 at 22:15, Hans Nyberg wrote:

          > CS3 creates the masks it self.
          > There is no need to have them in the layer saved from PTGui.

          You mean CS3 needs the clipping masks only and not the layer masks?
          This was the case for all other photoshop versions, too (except they
          didn't blend, of course).

          best regards
          --
          Erik Krause
          Resources, not only for panorama creation:
          http://www.erik-krause.de/
        • Sacha Griffin
          I am outputting psb With masks that I don t need the file size is 2.3 GB Without its 600 MB Sacha Griffin Southern Digital Solutions LLC
          Message 4 of 12 , Mar 1, 2007
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            I am outputting psb

            With masks that I don't need the file size is 2.3 GB

            Without its 600 MB



            Sacha Griffin
            Southern Digital Solutions LLC
            www.southern-digital.com
            www.seeit360.net
            www.ezphotosafe.com
            404-551-4275
            404-731-7798

            _____

            From: Erik Krause [mailto:erik.krause@...]
            Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 4:18 PM
            To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Speed up panotools - No masks



            On Thursday, March 01, 2007 at 15:09, Sacha Griffin wrote:

            > With cs3 masks aren't needed.
            > Output individual layers still creates masks.

            I don't understand fully. Which format do you output? TIFFs simply
            contain alpha channels which have to serve as a mask. PSDs contain
            both a clipping mask and a layer mask. The clipping mask is the limit
            of the single layer image and the layer mask can contain a feathered
            seam.

            If you use panotools for stitching you can output Photoshop without
            feather ("PSD_nomask") in which case the clipping mask and the layer
            mask are identical. No additional calculation step needed (but I
            don't know whether it is performed).

            Why should CS3 need no masks? It still needs to know where an image
            ends.

            best regards

            --
            Erik Krause
            Resources, not only for panorama creation:
            http://www.erik- <http://www.erik-krause.de/> krause.de/





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Klaus Hilsenbeck
            ... Hans, seems that I did nt get things right. To make it clearer for me, please advise me: which is the adequate PTGui output-format (or setting) to work
            Message 5 of 12 , Mar 1, 2007
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              > CS3 creates the masks it self.
              > There is no need to have them in the layer saved from PTGui.
              >
              > Hans
              >
              Hans,
              seems that I did'nt get things right.
              To make it clearer for me, please advise me:
              which is the adequate PTGui output-format (or setting) to work with
              the new CS3 autoblend-tool ?
              Thank you,
              Klaus
            • John Houghton
              ... Sacha, Could it be that you re not be comparing like with like? I generated a PSB layered file with PTGui and got a 31.149MB file. In CS2 I opened and
              Message 6 of 12 , Mar 2, 2007
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                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Sacha Griffin" <sachagriffin@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > With masks that I don't need the file size is 2.3 GB
                > Without its 600 MB
                >
                Sacha, Could it be that you're not be comparing like with like? I
                generated a PSB layered file with PTGui and got a 31.149MB file. In
                CS2 I opened and saved the file without any changes and got a 49.265MB
                file. I deleted the layer masks and saved again and the file size
                dropped to 48.887MB. I then output individual tiff files from PTGui and
                assembled the layered file manually with layer masks and saved the file
                at 49.223MB. After deleting the layer masks and saving again, the file
                size was 40.884MB.

                John
              • Sacha Griffin
                I am using no compression 16bit. You are probably using 8bit with compression which should do wonders on making small footprints for the masks. Unfortunately,
                Message 7 of 12 , Mar 2, 2007
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                  I am using no compression 16bit.

                  You are probably using 8bit with compression which should do wonders on
                  making small footprints for the masks.

                  Unfortunately, compression most of the time makes 16bit files larger.



                  This is not a HUGE deal, it only takes me less than a dozen right clicks to
                  delete all the masks.

                  But it is a waste of space and possible to waste of time to create the masks
                  and write the data to disk.



                  Sacha Griffin
                  Southern Digital Solutions LLC
                  www.southern-digital.com
                  www.seeit360.net
                  www.ezphotosafe.com
                  404-551-4275
                  404-731-7798

                  _____

                  From: John Houghton [mailto:j.houghton@...]
                  Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 4:00 AM
                  To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Speed up panotools - No masks



                  --- In PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
                  "Sacha Griffin" <sachagriffin@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > With masks that I don't need the file size is 2.3 GB
                  > Without its 600 MB
                  >
                  Sacha, Could it be that you're not be comparing like with like? I
                  generated a PSB layered file with PTGui and got a 31.149MB file. In
                  CS2 I opened and saved the file without any changes and got a 49.265MB
                  file. I deleted the layer masks and saved again and the file size
                  dropped to 48.887MB. I then output individual tiff files from PTGui and
                  assembled the layered file manually with layer masks and saved the file
                  at 49.223MB. After deleting the layer masks and saving again, the file
                  size was 40.884MB.

                  John





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Jim Watters
                  It was some time since I updated the code that creates the masks for layered Photoshop files. From what I remember many of the other imaging applications
                  Message 8 of 12 , Mar 2, 2007
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                    It was some time since I updated the code that creates the masks for
                    layered Photoshop files. From what I remember many of the other imaging
                    applications could not open the files if they did not have both the clip
                    mask and image mask.
                    Masks should only be necessary if feathering is used. They do compress
                    very well. I had to use some hack to determine at the time of creating
                    the image mask whether or not feathering was selected or not.

                    With the new PTMender we will have many more options. The file size
                    should be smaller.

                    It will need to be investigated again. It is likely that there is a
                    better way to implement the masking. At the time I was trying to not to
                    add the image mask if they were not needed. But unfortunately they were
                    needed by some imaging applications.

                    And if you are creating PSB files they are coming from PTGui not
                    PanoTools. PSB will not be an option included in PanoTools. Adobe's
                    license agreement does not allow it be used in open source software.

                    I have put a request into Adobe for an updated SDK several weeks ago. I
                    have not heard back yet. I have not tried CS3 yet. I will investigate
                    any improvements to the plug-ins first.

                    Jim

                    Sacha Griffin wrote:
                    > I am using no compression 16bit.
                    >
                    > You are probably using 8bit with compression which should do wonders on
                    > making small footprints for the masks.
                    >
                    > Unfortunately, compression most of the time makes 16bit files larger.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > This is not a HUGE deal, it only takes me less than a dozen right clicks to
                    > delete all the masks.
                    >
                    > But it is a waste of space and possible to waste of time to create the masks
                    > and write the data to disk.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Sacha Griffin
                    >
                    > From: John Houghton [mailto:j.houghton@...]
                    >
                    > "Sacha Griffin" <sachagriffin@...>
                    > wrote:
                    >
                    >> With masks that I don't need the file size is 2.3 GB
                    >> Without its 600 MB
                    >>
                    >>
                    > Sacha, Could it be that you're not be comparing like with like? I
                    > generated a PSB layered file with PTGui and got a 31.149MB file. In
                    > CS2 I opened and saved the file without any changes and got a 49.265MB
                    > file. I deleted the layer masks and saved again and the file size
                    > dropped to 48.887MB. I then output individual tiff files from PTGui and
                    > assembled the layered file manually with layer masks and saved the file
                    > at 49.223MB. After deleting the layer masks and saving again, the file
                    > size was 40.884MB.
                    >
                    > John
                    >

                    --
                    Jim Watters

                    jwatters @ photocreations . ca
                    http://photocreations.ca
                  • Erik Krause
                    ... Then apparently you use PTGui internal stitcher. ... I see. I wouldn t have thought that the difference is that large but who knows the internals of PSB
                    Message 9 of 12 , Mar 2, 2007
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                      On Thursday, March 01, 2007 at 17:29, Sacha Griffin wrote:

                      > I am outputting psb

                      Then apparently you use PTGui internal stitcher.

                      > With masks that I don't need the file size is 2.3 GB
                      >
                      > Without its 600 MB

                      I see. I wouldn't have thought that the difference is that large but
                      who knows the internals of PSB format ;-)

                      You should ask Joost directly - could well be he doesn't read here at
                      the moment.

                      best regards
                      --
                      Erik Krause
                      Resources, not only for panorama creation:
                      http://www.erik-krause.de/
                    • Klaus Hilsenbeck
                      Just want to repeat my question. Maybe it got lost somehow (no answer yet). Any advice appreciate. Klaus
                      Message 10 of 12 , Mar 4, 2007
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                        Just want to repeat my question.
                        Maybe it got lost somehow (no answer yet).
                        Any advice appreciate.
                        Klaus

                        > "Klaus Hilsenbeck" <kh@...> wrote:

                        > Hans,
                        > seems that I did'nt get things right.
                        > To make it clearer for me, please advise me:
                        > which is the adequate PTGui output-format (or setting) to work with
                        > the new CS3 autoblend-tool ?
                        > Thank you,
                        > Klaus

                        > >
                        > > CS3 creates the masks it self.
                        > > There is no need to have them in the layer saved from PTGui.
                        > >
                        > > Hans
                        > >
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