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Re: [PanoToolsNG] Beautiful Panoramas: Turkey Cinemascope: Another opinion

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  • Yuval Levy
    ... thank you for sharing this opinion. i think we need more of these comments. or at least: i would love to read more of this kind of comments when i post
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 28, 2007
      Margaret & Dean Graetz wrote:
      > Folks,
      > Here is another opinion about the panoramas from Turkey.

      thank you for sharing this opinion. i think we need more of these
      comments. or at least: i would love to read more of this kind of
      comments when i post links to images such as
      <http://www.photopla.net/060826boston/>

      it is very courageous of you, because in opposition to the technically
      minded comments this is based on subjective judgment and guts feeling
      rather than often measurable hard facts.

      so i follow your lead and express here my feeling when looking at these
      amazing images (thank you, Daniel, for sharing).


      > The photographer is repeatedly and powerfully telling a
      > simple but sad story.

      I agree with you that all of his cinemascopes have a powerful thread.
      They are a collection with a purpose. Individually they are strong and
      appealing through the framing and techniques, but they get much more
      power through the sequence. This is what IMO distinguishes art from
      technique.


      > His images convey the ignorance and squalor of rural and urban Turkey.

      I am not sure about this interpretation, but this is my personal opinon.

      Ishakpasa palace in the 41-50 section is everything but ignorant and
      squalid. I find that the background of most pictures tend to be dark and
      dramatic, which makes the subject (example: Motorcycle boy in Urfa on
      the first page) stand out.

      It is one of the challenges panorama photography, that there is seldom
      interesting / beautiful stuff on each single degree of FOV and I think
      he solves it in a powerful way that attracts attention to the subject.

      And while the country obviously has its problems, it is like every
      country in the world. It has pleasant and less pleasant sights. The
      human condition is, like in most other parts of the world, still
      characterized by ignorance and squalor, which I can find here in Canada
      too, just around the corner. Breath-taking view are ruined by misplaced
      industrial buildings. Run down residential neighborhood (suburbia)
      abounds, as does ignorance (one in five people here in Quebec are
      analphabet, although this is a province of a G7 country).


      > My choice of most telling image is that of donkey foreground
      > with the two women background dressed in black and lugging heavy
      > loads.

      mine is Girl on the railroad, on the previous page.


      > The root cause of the poverty and squalor, perhaps?

      she can't influence where she came from, but she has plenty of
      opportunity aheads, many of which we can't see. She does however first
      need to get off the track. There are obstacles left and right. On one
      side there is a house and on the other a road. Which one will she choose?

      Can't resist but to add also to the technical discussion - in a separate
      message.

      Yuv

      --
      Copyright © 2007 Yuval Levy
      Verbatim copying and distribution on other medium than YahooGroup
      strictly forbidden.
    • Fulvio Senore
      I visited Turkey in 1988, and I did not only visit the usual places: I traveled from Italy to the Turkey-Iran border in an old car, with my wife and my 8 month
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 28, 2007
        I visited Turkey in 1988, and I did not only visit the usual places: I
        traveled from Italy to the Turkey-Iran border in an old car, with my
        wife and my 8 month old daughter. The car got broken at the feet of
        Mount Ararat and a local mechanic fixed it with an old-style solution,
        but I was able to come back home without problems. That man asked us
        very little money, even if he could have asked us much more, since we
        had no other choice. He only spoke Turkish, I did not speak Turkish at
        all, but we understood each other.

        I liked the country very much, but I liked the people even more. They
        were kind, they always did everything they could to help us. It was like
        using a time-machine to move to my country in a past time: most people
        were poorer, but money is not the only way to measure people and the
        quality of their life.

        I do not recognize the Turkey that I visited in those photographs.

        Yes, I have been there 20 years ago, but I do not believe that the
        country can have changed so much. When I visited the country I also saw
        poor people (but not only), but I had a different feeling: I saw a
        growing country with opportunities. What I see in those photos is a
        desperate country.

        I think that we should remember that we are looking at images created by
        a photographer in order to sell them, and it seems that he wants to sell
        them to western customers. It would be difficult to sell images that
        look like they have been taken in any western country, it is surely
        easier to sell images with a dramatic look that seem taken in a
        desperate land. So buyers can think: "how am I lucky to live in my
        country!".

        Who knows, maybe 50 meters away from one of those desperate houses there
        is a tall steel-and-glass building :-) .
        In the end, when you are looking at those photographs you are not
        looking at a country, but you are looking at what the photographer has
        decided that you must see, and the two things are not necessarily the same.

        Last but not least, how can you measure the ignorance of people from
        some photographs?

        Fulvio Senore


        Margaret & Dean Graetz ha scritto:
        > Folks,
        > Here is another opinion about the panoramas from Turkey.
        >
        > All of you seem impressed by, and have focused on the
        > technology/technique.
        >
        > There has been almost no comment on the content - the point
        > of generating the images.
        >
        > The photographer is repeatedly and powerfully telling a
        > simple but sad story.
        >
        > His images convey the ignorance and squalor of rural and urban Turkey.
        >
        > For example, in one image the Roman infrastructure is
        > outstanding for its elegance compared with the near-decrepit urban
        > junk in another.
        >
        > Even under a snow cover you can see (and imagine) how
        > degraded and tired is the land.
        >
        > And almost every image is captured under brooding,
        > suffocating grey clouds.
        >
        > Turkey's future, perhaps?
        >
        > My choice of most telling image is that of donkey foreground
        > with the two women background dressed in black and lugging heavy
        > loads.
        >
        > The root cause of the poverty and squalor, perhaps?
        >
        > If I was a European, I would go somewhere else for my summer holidays.
        >
        > Cheers, Dean Graetz
        >
        >
      • David Sykes
        ... I do not think so, this is very dangerous ground that can quickly get out-of-hand. Consider my message 1690 :- Yuval Levy wrote:
        Message 3 of 6 , Mar 1, 2007
          Yuval Levy wrote:

          > thank you for sharing this opinion. i think we need more of these
          > comments.


          I do not think so, this is very dangerous ground that can quickly get
          out-of-hand.

          Consider my message 1690 :-

          "Yuval Levy wrote:

          <http://vrm.vrway.com/issue26/PEACEFUL_SCENES_OF_HAIFA_AND_THE_NORTHERN_ISRAELI_COAST.html>

          Very nice caves.

          Try a Google search for 'Lebanon bbc oil'.

          It may provide more up-to-date information about that attractive
          coastline"


          You did not respond and I could have said 'that once-attractive
          coastline before the actions by the "state" of Israel'.


          I would love to say a lot, lot more but it would not be appropriate,
          see what I mean :-)

          Best to stick with technicalities in this forum.



          David Sykes
        • yuval_levy
          ... There is a fine difference between artistic judgment and political statements and while I agree with you that it is dangerous ground and everyone is at
          Message 4 of 6 , Mar 2, 2007
            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "David Sykes" <killspammers2@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Yuval Levy wrote:
            >
            > > thank you for sharing this opinion. i think we need more of these
            > > comments.
            >
            >
            > I do not think so, this is very dangerous ground that can quickly
            > get out-of-hand.

            There is a fine difference between artistic judgment and political
            statements and while I agree with you that it is dangerous ground and
            everyone is at risk of feeling provoked and react at some point or
            another, it's no good reason to cover our eyes and refrain from
            expressing subjective judgment about composition, color, collection
            and, to a limited extent, interpretation.


            > Consider my message 1690 :-
            ...
            > You did not respond and I could have said 'that once-attractive
            > coastline before the actions by the "state" of Israel'.

            I did not ignore you. I decided to ignore my reaction that would have
            lead the thread way off-topic.


            > I would love to say a lot, lot more but it would not be appropriate,
            > see what I mean :-)

            Feel free to do so in *private*. And get ready for heated debate :-)


            > Best to stick with technicalities in this forum.

            Stick with panoramas. Technicalities are an important part. Artistic
            and aesthetic judgment too. Moderation (self or by the mods) ensures
            that debate does not get sidetracked by polarizing issues.

            Yuv


            --
            Copyright © 2007 Yuval Levy
            Verbatim copying and distribution on other medium than YahooGroup
            strictly forbidden.
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