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RE: [PanoToolsNG] Rokinon/Samyang 14mm lens settings

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  • Mark D. Fink
    Hi Thomas, That makes sense, since apparently those products aren t capable of the transformations of PTGui. This hasn t even been an issue in the past, since
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 2 9:28 AM
      Hi Thomas,

      That makes sense, since apparently those products aren't capable of the
      transformations of PTGui. This hasn't even been an issue in the past, since
      almost all of my VR images were from fisheye sources, and running lens
      corrections on those was clearly NOT what I wanted.

      I just realized that there have been a lot of mosaics that I have stitched
      for print where I HAVE done lens corrections in LR. Must remember not to do
      that for those either...

      Thanks!

      Mark

      -----Original Message-----
      From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Thomas Bredenfeld
      Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 11:06 AM
      To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Rokinon/Samyang 14mm lens settings

      hi mark,

      _never_ do lens corrections in LR or PS/CR for panorama images, only
      apply CA correction and sharpening before heading to PTGui.

      cheers
      tb


      Am 02.10.13 16:59, schrieb Mark D. Fink:
      > I have been reading Michel Thoby's excellent discourse on this lens -
      >
      http://michel.thoby.free.fr/Web_Gallery_&_Tests/Samyang%2014mm/Samyang_wide_
      14mm.html
      > - (by the way Michel - is that a drawing of the moon rocket from Tintin
      > Explorers on the Moon in the upper left corner of your test shots?), and
      > am trying to wrap my head around the best workflow. Do I apply any lens
      > profile correction in Adobe Lightroom other than CA, or export to TIFF
      > and let PTGui determine and apply the a, b, and c corrections? Is it
      > possible to have these corrections done in Lightroom now, or is that
      > really best left to PTGui?
      >
      >
      > Thanks,
      >
      >
      > Mark
      >
      >



      ------------------------------------

      --
    • Thomas Bredenfeld
      hi mark, ... ptgui is far better in correcting lenses as PS/CR/LR. tested this when lens profiling came from adobe. ... for flat mosaics adobe lens correction
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 2 9:40 AM
        hi mark,

        Am 02.10.13 18:28, schrieb Mark D. Fink:
        > Hi Thomas,
        >
        > That makes sense, since apparently those products aren't capable of the
        > transformations of PTGui.

        ptgui is far better in correcting lenses as PS/CR/LR. tested this when
        lens profiling came from adobe.

        > This hasn't even been an issue in the past, since
        > almost all of my VR images were from fisheye sources, and running lens
        > corrections on those was clearly NOT what I wanted.
        >
        > I just realized that there have been a lot of mosaics that I have stitched
        > for print where I HAVE done lens corrections in LR. Must remember not to do
        > that for those either...

        for flat mosaics adobe lens correction may be useful as it produced
        flat/undistorted images (when the profile is really good), which can be
        mounted as a flat stitch w/photomerge which works often better than with
        pgtui. turned out as the best way to deal with a 120 m graffiti wall.

        t

        > Thanks!
        >
        > Mark
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
        > Behalf Of Thomas Bredenfeld
        > Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 11:06 AM
        > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Rokinon/Samyang 14mm lens settings
        >
        > hi mark,
        >
        > _never_ do lens corrections in LR or PS/CR for panorama images, only
        > apply CA correction and sharpening before heading to PTGui.
        >
        > cheers
        > tb
        >
        > Am 02.10.13 16:59, schrieb Mark D. Fink:
        > > I have been reading Michel Thoby's excellent discourse on this lens -
        > >
        > http://michel.thoby.free.fr/Web_Gallery_&_Tests/Samyang%2014mm/Samyang_wide_
        > 14mm.html
        > > - (by the way Michel - is that a drawing of the moon rocket from Tintin
        > > Explorers on the Moon in the upper left corner of your test shots?), and
        > > am trying to wrap my head around the best workflow. Do I apply any lens
        > > profile correction in Adobe Lightroom other than CA, or export to TIFF
        > > and let PTGui determine and apply the a, b, and c corrections? Is it
        > > possible to have these corrections done in Lightroom now, or is that
        > > really best left to PTGui?
        > >
        > >
        > > Thanks,
        > >
        > >
        > > Mark
        > >
        > >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > --
        >
        >
      • Rodrigo Alarcon-Cielock
        Hi Thomas, Could you please elaborate as to why, we should not apply lens correction in LR or PS/CR. kind regards, Rodrigo ... From: Thomas Bredenfeld Sent:
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 2 12:41 PM
          Hi Thomas,

          Could you please elaborate as to why, we should not apply lens correction in
          LR or PS/CR.

          kind regards,

          Rodrigo

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Thomas Bredenfeld
          Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 4:05 PM
          To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Rokinon/Samyang 14mm lens settings

          hi mark,

          _never_ do lens corrections in LR or PS/CR for panorama images, only
          apply CA correction and sharpening before heading to PTGui.

          cheers
          tb


          Am 02.10.13 16:59, schrieb Mark D. Fink:
          > I have been reading Michel Thoby's excellent discourse on this lens -
          > http://michel.thoby.free.fr/Web_Gallery_&_Tests/Samyang%2014mm/Samyang_wide_14mm.html
          > - (by the way Michel - is that a drawing of the moon rocket from Tintin
          > Explorers on the Moon in the upper left corner of your test shots?), and
          > am trying to wrap my head around the best workflow. Do I apply any lens
          > profile correction in Adobe Lightroom other than CA, or export to TIFF
          > and let PTGui determine and apply the a, b, and c corrections? Is it
          > possible to have these corrections done in Lightroom now, or is that
          > really best left to PTGui?
          >
          >
          > Thanks,
          >
          >
          > Mark
          >
          >



          ------------------------------------

          --
        • Thomas Bredenfeld
          ... ... of course :-) 1. if you correct lens parameters in LR or PS/CR and later stitch them in PTGui, PTGui takes the lens parameters from (unchanged) EXIF
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 2 12:59 PM
            Am 02.10.13 21:41, schrieb Rodrigo Alarcon-Cielock:
            > Hi Thomas,
            >
            > Could you please elaborate as to why, we should not apply lens correction in
            > LR or PS/CR.

            ... of course :-)

            1. if you correct lens parameters in LR or PS/CR and later stitch them
            in PTGui, PTGui takes the lens parameters from (unchanged) EXIF data and
            tries to optimize the images which _are_ already corrected. sometimes
            you can really confuse PTGui with this.

            2. it's an unnecessary "double correction"

            3. image resampling algorithms in PTGui are derived from PanoTools which
            are known as far better than the usual PS bicubic.

            [4. you _can_ use lens corrections in LR PS/CR (only newer versions)
            before stitching to get rid of CA which is also included in the lens
            profile data. but be sure to set the lens distortion amount manually
            back to zero. but activating the CA correction checkbox alone (i.e.
            without using the lens profile) does the same job.]

            to sum up: doing CA correction (both directions with newer versions of
            the CR engine) and pre sharpening (mainly against the softness
            introduced by the anti aliasing low pass filter, which is non lens
            dependent but sensor plane oriented) _before_ stitching and correcting
            all other (lens dependent) parameters _during_ stitching gives you best
            treatments of both (adobe and PTGuis) worlds :-)

            hope this help
            cheers
            t

            > kind regards,
            >
            > Rodrigo
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Thomas Bredenfeld
            > Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 4:05 PM
            > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Rokinon/Samyang 14mm lens settings
            >
            > hi mark,
            >
            > _never_ do lens corrections in LR or PS/CR for panorama images, only
            > apply CA correction and sharpening before heading to PTGui.
            >
            > cheers
            > tb
            >
            >
            > Am 02.10.13 16:59, schrieb Mark D. Fink:
            >> I have been reading Michel Thoby's excellent discourse on this lens -
            >> http://michel.thoby.free.fr/Web_Gallery_&_Tests/Samyang%2014mm/Samyang_wide_14mm.html
            >> - (by the way Michel - is that a drawing of the moon rocket from Tintin
            >> Explorers on the Moon in the upper left corner of your test shots?), and
            >> am trying to wrap my head around the best workflow. Do I apply any lens
            >> profile correction in Adobe Lightroom other than CA, or export to TIFF
            >> and let PTGui determine and apply the a, b, and c corrections? Is it
            >> possible to have these corrections done in Lightroom now, or is that
            >> really best left to PTGui?
            >>
            >>
            >> Thanks,
            >>
            >>
            >> Mark
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
          • Jim Watters
            ... Also PTGui does a much better job at vignetting correction and lens distortion correction. But when a correction was already applied it will have a very
            Message 5 of 10 , Oct 2 1:10 PM
              On 2013-10-02 4:59 PM, Thomas Bredenfeld wrote:
              > Am 02.10.13 21:41, schrieb Rodrigo Alarcon-Cielock:
              >> Hi Thomas,
              >>
              >> Could you please elaborate as to why, we should not apply lens correction in
              >> LR or PS/CR.
              Also PTGui does a much better job at vignetting correction and lens distortion
              correction. But when a correction was already applied it will have a very hard
              time making it better and may make it worse.

              --
              Jim Watters
              http://photocreations.ca
            • Rodrigo Alarcon-Cielock
              Thanks Thomas and Jim for your kind response, kind regards, Rodrigo ... From: Jim Watters Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 9:10 PM To:
              Message 6 of 10 , Oct 2 2:00 PM
                Thanks Thomas and Jim for your kind response,

                kind regards,

                Rodrigo

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Jim Watters
                Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 9:10 PM
                To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Rokinon/Samyang 14mm lens settings

                On 2013-10-02 4:59 PM, Thomas Bredenfeld wrote:
                > Am 02.10.13 21:41, schrieb Rodrigo Alarcon-Cielock:
                >> Hi Thomas,
                >>
                >> Could you please elaborate as to why, we should not apply lens correction
                >> in
                >> LR or PS/CR.
                Also PTGui does a much better job at vignetting correction and lens
                distortion
                correction. But when a correction was already applied it will have a very
                hard
                time making it better and may make it worse.

                --
                Jim Watters
                http://photocreations.ca



                ------------------------------------

                --
              • richard_j_powell
                ... ... of course :-) 1. if you correct lens parameters in LR or PS/CR and later stitch them in PTGui, PTGui takes the lens parameters from (unchanged) EXIF
                Message 7 of 10 , Oct 7 5:17 AM

                  Correcting CA is best done in Camera Raw / Lightroom and distortion correction is best done in PTGui / Hugin,

                  But I have a different theory for vignetting.

                  It is hard to correctly recover the image details from the corners of the image because the Samyang 14mm lens has such strong vignetting. Using 16 bit TIFFs as the output file format might be enough,


                  I agree with your experience that Camera Raw doesn't do a perfect job of removing vignetting, and PTGui has to apply a slight additional lightening towards the corners to complete the correction, however I find this does the best job of preserving details in the dark parts of the image.


                  Even though I calibrated my Sanyang lens for Camera Raw, it still isn't accurate for vignetting. It is good for geometric distortion though.

                  For CA, I must be lucky because I can't detect any, even in the corners of the image.



                  ---In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, <panotoolsng@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  Am 02.10.13 21:41, schrieb Rodrigo Alarcon-Cielock:
                  > Hi Thomas,
                  >
                  > Could you please elaborate as to why, we should not apply lens correction in
                  > LR or PS/CR.

                  ... of course :-)

                  1. if you correct lens parameters in LR or PS/CR and later stitch them
                  in PTGui, PTGui takes the lens parameters from (unchanged) EXIF data and
                  tries to optimize the images which _are_ already corrected. sometimes
                  you can really confuse PTGui with this.

                  2. it's an unnecessary "double correction"

                  3. image resampling algorithms in PTGui are derived from PanoTools which
                  are known as far better than the usual PS bicubic.

                  [4. you _can_ use lens corrections in LR PS/CR (only newer versions)
                  before stitching to get rid of CA which is also included in the lens
                  profile data. but be sure to set the lens distortion amount manually
                  back to zero. but activating the CA correction checkbox alone (i.e.
                  without using the lens profile) does the same job.]

                  to sum up: doing CA correction (both directions with newer versions of
                  the CR engine) and pre sharpening (mainly against the softness
                  introduced by the anti aliasing low pass filter, which is non lens
                  dependent but sensor plane oriented) _before_ stitching and correcting
                  all other (lens dependent) parameters _during_ stitching gives you best
                  treatments of both (adobe and PTGuis) worlds :-)

                  hope this help
                  cheers
                  t

                  > kind regards,
                  >
                  > Rodrigo
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Thomas Bredenfeld
                  > Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 4:05 PM
                  > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Rokinon/Samyang 14mm lens settings
                  >
                  > hi mark,
                  >
                  > _never_ do lens corrections in LR or PS/CR for panorama images, only
                  > apply CA correction and sharpening before heading to PTGui.
                  >
                  > cheers
                  > tb
                  >
                  >
                  > Am 02.10.13 16:59, schrieb Mark D. Fink:
                  >> I have been reading Michel Thoby's excellent discourse on this lens -
                  >> http://michel.thoby.free.fr/Web_Gallery_&_Tests/Samyang%2014mm/Samyang_wide_14mm.html
                  >> - (by the way Michel - is that a drawing of the moon rocket from Tintin
                  >> Explorers on the Moon in the upper left corner of your test shots?), and
                  >> am trying to wrap my head around the best workflow. Do I apply any lens
                  >> profile correction in Adobe Lightroom other than CA, or export to TIFF
                  >> and let PTGui determine and apply the a, b, and c corrections? Is it
                  >> possible to have these corrections done in Lightroom now, or is that
                  >> really best left to PTGui?
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Thanks,
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Mark
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                • paul womack
                  ... This may well be pargmatically the best at the moment, given current software versions. Obviously, *in principle*, it s best to only have one sampling
                  Message 8 of 10 , Oct 8 1:24 AM
                    richard_j_powell@... wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Correcting CA is best done in Camera Raw / Lightroom and distortion correction is best done in PTGui / Hugin,

                    This may well be pargmatically the best at the moment, given current software versions.

                    Obviously, *in principle*, it's best to only have one sampling process,
                    which is one of Panotools strengths.

                    BugBear
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