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Rokinon/Samyang 14mm lens settings

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  • Mark D. Fink
    I have been reading Michel Thoby s excellent discourse on this lens - http://michel.thoby.free.fr/Web_Gallery_
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 2, 2013

      I have been reading Michel Thoby's excellent discourse on this lens - http://michel.thoby.free.fr/Web_Gallery_&_Tests/Samyang%2014mm/Samyang_wide_14mm.html - (by the way Michel - is that a drawing of the moon rocket from Tintin Explorers on the Moon in the upper left corner of your test shots?), and am trying to wrap my head around the best workflow. Do I apply any lens profile correction in Adobe Lightroom other than CA, or export to TIFF and let PTGui determine and apply the a, b, and c corrections? Is it possible to have these corrections done in Lightroom now, or is that really best left to PTGui?


      Thanks,


      Mark

       

       

       

    • Thomas Bredenfeld
      hi mark, _never_ do lens corrections in LR or PS/CR for panorama images, only apply CA correction and sharpening before heading to PTGui. cheers tb
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 2, 2013
        hi mark,

        _never_ do lens corrections in LR or PS/CR for panorama images, only
        apply CA correction and sharpening before heading to PTGui.

        cheers
        tb


        Am 02.10.13 16:59, schrieb Mark D. Fink:
        > I have been reading Michel Thoby's excellent discourse on this lens -
        > http://michel.thoby.free.fr/Web_Gallery_&_Tests/Samyang%2014mm/Samyang_wide_14mm.html
        > - (by the way Michel - is that a drawing of the moon rocket from Tintin
        > Explorers on the Moon in the upper left corner of your test shots?), and
        > am trying to wrap my head around the best workflow. Do I apply any lens
        > profile correction in Adobe Lightroom other than CA, or export to TIFF
        > and let PTGui determine and apply the a, b, and c corrections? Is it
        > possible to have these corrections done in Lightroom now, or is that
        > really best left to PTGui?
        >
        >
        > Thanks,
        >
        >
        > Mark
        >
        >
      • Mark D. Fink
        Hi Thomas, That makes sense, since apparently those products aren t capable of the transformations of PTGui. This hasn t even been an issue in the past, since
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 2, 2013
          Hi Thomas,

          That makes sense, since apparently those products aren't capable of the
          transformations of PTGui. This hasn't even been an issue in the past, since
          almost all of my VR images were from fisheye sources, and running lens
          corrections on those was clearly NOT what I wanted.

          I just realized that there have been a lot of mosaics that I have stitched
          for print where I HAVE done lens corrections in LR. Must remember not to do
          that for those either...

          Thanks!

          Mark

          -----Original Message-----
          From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Thomas Bredenfeld
          Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 11:06 AM
          To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Rokinon/Samyang 14mm lens settings

          hi mark,

          _never_ do lens corrections in LR or PS/CR for panorama images, only
          apply CA correction and sharpening before heading to PTGui.

          cheers
          tb


          Am 02.10.13 16:59, schrieb Mark D. Fink:
          > I have been reading Michel Thoby's excellent discourse on this lens -
          >
          http://michel.thoby.free.fr/Web_Gallery_&_Tests/Samyang%2014mm/Samyang_wide_
          14mm.html
          > - (by the way Michel - is that a drawing of the moon rocket from Tintin
          > Explorers on the Moon in the upper left corner of your test shots?), and
          > am trying to wrap my head around the best workflow. Do I apply any lens
          > profile correction in Adobe Lightroom other than CA, or export to TIFF
          > and let PTGui determine and apply the a, b, and c corrections? Is it
          > possible to have these corrections done in Lightroom now, or is that
          > really best left to PTGui?
          >
          >
          > Thanks,
          >
          >
          > Mark
          >
          >



          ------------------------------------

          --
        • Thomas Bredenfeld
          hi mark, ... ptgui is far better in correcting lenses as PS/CR/LR. tested this when lens profiling came from adobe. ... for flat mosaics adobe lens correction
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 2, 2013
            hi mark,

            Am 02.10.13 18:28, schrieb Mark D. Fink:
            > Hi Thomas,
            >
            > That makes sense, since apparently those products aren't capable of the
            > transformations of PTGui.

            ptgui is far better in correcting lenses as PS/CR/LR. tested this when
            lens profiling came from adobe.

            > This hasn't even been an issue in the past, since
            > almost all of my VR images were from fisheye sources, and running lens
            > corrections on those was clearly NOT what I wanted.
            >
            > I just realized that there have been a lot of mosaics that I have stitched
            > for print where I HAVE done lens corrections in LR. Must remember not to do
            > that for those either...

            for flat mosaics adobe lens correction may be useful as it produced
            flat/undistorted images (when the profile is really good), which can be
            mounted as a flat stitch w/photomerge which works often better than with
            pgtui. turned out as the best way to deal with a 120 m graffiti wall.

            t

            > Thanks!
            >
            > Mark
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
            > Behalf Of Thomas Bredenfeld
            > Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 11:06 AM
            > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Rokinon/Samyang 14mm lens settings
            >
            > hi mark,
            >
            > _never_ do lens corrections in LR or PS/CR for panorama images, only
            > apply CA correction and sharpening before heading to PTGui.
            >
            > cheers
            > tb
            >
            > Am 02.10.13 16:59, schrieb Mark D. Fink:
            > > I have been reading Michel Thoby's excellent discourse on this lens -
            > >
            > http://michel.thoby.free.fr/Web_Gallery_&_Tests/Samyang%2014mm/Samyang_wide_
            > 14mm.html
            > > - (by the way Michel - is that a drawing of the moon rocket from Tintin
            > > Explorers on the Moon in the upper left corner of your test shots?), and
            > > am trying to wrap my head around the best workflow. Do I apply any lens
            > > profile correction in Adobe Lightroom other than CA, or export to TIFF
            > > and let PTGui determine and apply the a, b, and c corrections? Is it
            > > possible to have these corrections done in Lightroom now, or is that
            > > really best left to PTGui?
            > >
            > >
            > > Thanks,
            > >
            > >
            > > Mark
            > >
            > >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > --
            >
            >
          • Rodrigo Alarcon-Cielock
            Hi Thomas, Could you please elaborate as to why, we should not apply lens correction in LR or PS/CR. kind regards, Rodrigo ... From: Thomas Bredenfeld Sent:
            Message 5 of 10 , Oct 2, 2013
              Hi Thomas,

              Could you please elaborate as to why, we should not apply lens correction in
              LR or PS/CR.

              kind regards,

              Rodrigo

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Thomas Bredenfeld
              Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 4:05 PM
              To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Rokinon/Samyang 14mm lens settings

              hi mark,

              _never_ do lens corrections in LR or PS/CR for panorama images, only
              apply CA correction and sharpening before heading to PTGui.

              cheers
              tb


              Am 02.10.13 16:59, schrieb Mark D. Fink:
              > I have been reading Michel Thoby's excellent discourse on this lens -
              > http://michel.thoby.free.fr/Web_Gallery_&_Tests/Samyang%2014mm/Samyang_wide_14mm.html
              > - (by the way Michel - is that a drawing of the moon rocket from Tintin
              > Explorers on the Moon in the upper left corner of your test shots?), and
              > am trying to wrap my head around the best workflow. Do I apply any lens
              > profile correction in Adobe Lightroom other than CA, or export to TIFF
              > and let PTGui determine and apply the a, b, and c corrections? Is it
              > possible to have these corrections done in Lightroom now, or is that
              > really best left to PTGui?
              >
              >
              > Thanks,
              >
              >
              > Mark
              >
              >



              ------------------------------------

              --
            • Thomas Bredenfeld
              ... ... of course :-) 1. if you correct lens parameters in LR or PS/CR and later stitch them in PTGui, PTGui takes the lens parameters from (unchanged) EXIF
              Message 6 of 10 , Oct 2, 2013
                Am 02.10.13 21:41, schrieb Rodrigo Alarcon-Cielock:
                > Hi Thomas,
                >
                > Could you please elaborate as to why, we should not apply lens correction in
                > LR or PS/CR.

                ... of course :-)

                1. if you correct lens parameters in LR or PS/CR and later stitch them
                in PTGui, PTGui takes the lens parameters from (unchanged) EXIF data and
                tries to optimize the images which _are_ already corrected. sometimes
                you can really confuse PTGui with this.

                2. it's an unnecessary "double correction"

                3. image resampling algorithms in PTGui are derived from PanoTools which
                are known as far better than the usual PS bicubic.

                [4. you _can_ use lens corrections in LR PS/CR (only newer versions)
                before stitching to get rid of CA which is also included in the lens
                profile data. but be sure to set the lens distortion amount manually
                back to zero. but activating the CA correction checkbox alone (i.e.
                without using the lens profile) does the same job.]

                to sum up: doing CA correction (both directions with newer versions of
                the CR engine) and pre sharpening (mainly against the softness
                introduced by the anti aliasing low pass filter, which is non lens
                dependent but sensor plane oriented) _before_ stitching and correcting
                all other (lens dependent) parameters _during_ stitching gives you best
                treatments of both (adobe and PTGuis) worlds :-)

                hope this help
                cheers
                t

                > kind regards,
                >
                > Rodrigo
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Thomas Bredenfeld
                > Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 4:05 PM
                > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Rokinon/Samyang 14mm lens settings
                >
                > hi mark,
                >
                > _never_ do lens corrections in LR or PS/CR for panorama images, only
                > apply CA correction and sharpening before heading to PTGui.
                >
                > cheers
                > tb
                >
                >
                > Am 02.10.13 16:59, schrieb Mark D. Fink:
                >> I have been reading Michel Thoby's excellent discourse on this lens -
                >> http://michel.thoby.free.fr/Web_Gallery_&_Tests/Samyang%2014mm/Samyang_wide_14mm.html
                >> - (by the way Michel - is that a drawing of the moon rocket from Tintin
                >> Explorers on the Moon in the upper left corner of your test shots?), and
                >> am trying to wrap my head around the best workflow. Do I apply any lens
                >> profile correction in Adobe Lightroom other than CA, or export to TIFF
                >> and let PTGui determine and apply the a, b, and c corrections? Is it
                >> possible to have these corrections done in Lightroom now, or is that
                >> really best left to PTGui?
                >>
                >>
                >> Thanks,
                >>
                >>
                >> Mark
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
              • Jim Watters
                ... Also PTGui does a much better job at vignetting correction and lens distortion correction. But when a correction was already applied it will have a very
                Message 7 of 10 , Oct 2, 2013
                  On 2013-10-02 4:59 PM, Thomas Bredenfeld wrote:
                  > Am 02.10.13 21:41, schrieb Rodrigo Alarcon-Cielock:
                  >> Hi Thomas,
                  >>
                  >> Could you please elaborate as to why, we should not apply lens correction in
                  >> LR or PS/CR.
                  Also PTGui does a much better job at vignetting correction and lens distortion
                  correction. But when a correction was already applied it will have a very hard
                  time making it better and may make it worse.

                  --
                  Jim Watters
                  http://photocreations.ca
                • Rodrigo Alarcon-Cielock
                  Thanks Thomas and Jim for your kind response, kind regards, Rodrigo ... From: Jim Watters Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 9:10 PM To:
                  Message 8 of 10 , Oct 2, 2013
                    Thanks Thomas and Jim for your kind response,

                    kind regards,

                    Rodrigo

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Jim Watters
                    Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 9:10 PM
                    To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Rokinon/Samyang 14mm lens settings

                    On 2013-10-02 4:59 PM, Thomas Bredenfeld wrote:
                    > Am 02.10.13 21:41, schrieb Rodrigo Alarcon-Cielock:
                    >> Hi Thomas,
                    >>
                    >> Could you please elaborate as to why, we should not apply lens correction
                    >> in
                    >> LR or PS/CR.
                    Also PTGui does a much better job at vignetting correction and lens
                    distortion
                    correction. But when a correction was already applied it will have a very
                    hard
                    time making it better and may make it worse.

                    --
                    Jim Watters
                    http://photocreations.ca



                    ------------------------------------

                    --
                  • richard_j_powell
                    ... ... of course :-) 1. if you correct lens parameters in LR or PS/CR and later stitch them in PTGui, PTGui takes the lens parameters from (unchanged) EXIF
                    Message 9 of 10 , Oct 7, 2013

                      Correcting CA is best done in Camera Raw / Lightroom and distortion correction is best done in PTGui / Hugin,

                      But I have a different theory for vignetting.

                      It is hard to correctly recover the image details from the corners of the image because the Samyang 14mm lens has such strong vignetting. Using 16 bit TIFFs as the output file format might be enough,


                      I agree with your experience that Camera Raw doesn't do a perfect job of removing vignetting, and PTGui has to apply a slight additional lightening towards the corners to complete the correction, however I find this does the best job of preserving details in the dark parts of the image.


                      Even though I calibrated my Sanyang lens for Camera Raw, it still isn't accurate for vignetting. It is good for geometric distortion though.

                      For CA, I must be lucky because I can't detect any, even in the corners of the image.



                      ---In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, <panotoolsng@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                      Am 02.10.13 21:41, schrieb Rodrigo Alarcon-Cielock:
                      > Hi Thomas,
                      >
                      > Could you please elaborate as to why, we should not apply lens correction in
                      > LR or PS/CR.

                      ... of course :-)

                      1. if you correct lens parameters in LR or PS/CR and later stitch them
                      in PTGui, PTGui takes the lens parameters from (unchanged) EXIF data and
                      tries to optimize the images which _are_ already corrected. sometimes
                      you can really confuse PTGui with this.

                      2. it's an unnecessary "double correction"

                      3. image resampling algorithms in PTGui are derived from PanoTools which
                      are known as far better than the usual PS bicubic.

                      [4. you _can_ use lens corrections in LR PS/CR (only newer versions)
                      before stitching to get rid of CA which is also included in the lens
                      profile data. but be sure to set the lens distortion amount manually
                      back to zero. but activating the CA correction checkbox alone (i.e.
                      without using the lens profile) does the same job.]

                      to sum up: doing CA correction (both directions with newer versions of
                      the CR engine) and pre sharpening (mainly against the softness
                      introduced by the anti aliasing low pass filter, which is non lens
                      dependent but sensor plane oriented) _before_ stitching and correcting
                      all other (lens dependent) parameters _during_ stitching gives you best
                      treatments of both (adobe and PTGuis) worlds :-)

                      hope this help
                      cheers
                      t

                      > kind regards,
                      >
                      > Rodrigo
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Thomas Bredenfeld
                      > Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 4:05 PM
                      > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Rokinon/Samyang 14mm lens settings
                      >
                      > hi mark,
                      >
                      > _never_ do lens corrections in LR or PS/CR for panorama images, only
                      > apply CA correction and sharpening before heading to PTGui.
                      >
                      > cheers
                      > tb
                      >
                      >
                      > Am 02.10.13 16:59, schrieb Mark D. Fink:
                      >> I have been reading Michel Thoby's excellent discourse on this lens -
                      >> http://michel.thoby.free.fr/Web_Gallery_&_Tests/Samyang%2014mm/Samyang_wide_14mm.html
                      >> - (by the way Michel - is that a drawing of the moon rocket from Tintin
                      >> Explorers on the Moon in the upper left corner of your test shots?), and
                      >> am trying to wrap my head around the best workflow. Do I apply any lens
                      >> profile correction in Adobe Lightroom other than CA, or export to TIFF
                      >> and let PTGui determine and apply the a, b, and c corrections? Is it
                      >> possible to have these corrections done in Lightroom now, or is that
                      >> really best left to PTGui?
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Thanks,
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Mark
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                    • paul womack
                      ... This may well be pargmatically the best at the moment, given current software versions. Obviously, *in principle*, it s best to only have one sampling
                      Message 10 of 10 , Oct 8, 2013
                        richard_j_powell@... wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Correcting CA is best done in Camera Raw / Lightroom and distortion correction is best done in PTGui / Hugin,

                        This may well be pargmatically the best at the moment, given current software versions.

                        Obviously, *in principle*, it's best to only have one sampling process,
                        which is one of Panotools strengths.

                        BugBear
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