Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

Expand Messages
  • Bob Masters
    Thanks Mark, no I didn t shoot multiples exposures and I d left that box unchecked for that reason. I did use the Optimize now feature though because I
    Message 1 of 28 , Aug 9, 2013
      Thanks Mark,  no I didn't shoot multiples exposures and I'd left that box unchecked for that reason. I did use the 'Optimize now' feature though because I thought it would even more of the vignetting/banding problems.

      Bob





      On 9 Aug 2013, at 15:47, Mark D. Fink wrote:

       

      MUCH better - congratulations, and great image too! One last question - you mention the Exposure/HDR tab. Did you shoot multiple exposures requiring HDR? If not, then make sure you uncheck "Enable HDR stitching" as it will give you less than optimal results.

       

      Mark

       


      From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
      Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 9:42 AM
      To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

       



      Gentlemen,

       

      I have had a good degree of success with a combination of all your suggestions, as follows:

       

      I converted all the RAWS to 16 bit TIFFS then corrected some of the vignetting, (which I knew caused vertical banding but wasn't sure about the horizontal banding). I then started a new project in PTGui stitching all the images again and outputting a 16bit .psb file.

       

      The resulting gigaphoto can be seen here:   http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/new_dh_test.jpg  ..the big Tiff looks much better as it has no compression artifacts, but at least one can see that the horizontal banding has been greatly reduced.

       

      In answer to Sacha's question, yes the Tiff did look the same as the Jpeg, although as you say due to compression artifacts the banding was more pronounced in the Jpeg image that I posted.

       

      I have posted a couple of PTGui screen grabs here: http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/screen_grabs.jpg  ...showing my settings to create the pan, they are the result of using the 'Optimize now' feature in the Exposure / HDR Tab and my final settings, I have used the Lanczos16 interpolator, ..is this a good choice? Any other observations where I may be going wrong would be appreciated

       

      BTW The images were shot on a Canon 5D MkII with a Canon 24-70mm f2.8L lens set at 70mm.

       

      Many thanks once again to all of you.

       

      Bob

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

      On 8 Aug 2013, at 19:00, Fulvio Senore wrote:



      You should try using the 16 bit files in a new PTGui project.

      I am not 100% sure but I remember that some years ago I did not pay
      attention and I converted some raw files to 8 bit tiffs, then I stitched
      them with PTGui. When I realized that the images where 8 bit I made a
      new raw conversion creating 16 bit tiff files with the same name, I
      overwrote the existing files, I opened PTGui and I stitched the panorama
      again.
      The resulting file did not increase in size and this was clearly a sign
      that the output file was still 8 bit.

      This happened years ago so maybe things have changed, but I suggest that
      you stich some 16 bit images in a new PTGui project to see if things get
      better.
      Using 8 bit images is a good reason to get banding in the sky.

      Fulvio Senore


      Il 08/08/2013 17.50, Bob Masters ha scritto:

       

       

      Hi Mark

       

      Yup I shot Raws.

       

      I did as you suggested and converted the images to 16 bit Tiffs in

      Photoshop then used the same.pts file as before. Sadly I still have the

      same banding effect. Do you think it would it help if I sent you the

      .pts (without images) to look at?

       

      Have you ever come across this problem before with clear blue skies?

      it's not the first time it's happened to me, perhaps I should just shoot

      on cloudy days in future.

       

      Bob

       

       

       

       

      On 8 Aug 2013, at 14:13, Mark D. Fink wrote:

       

       

      Hi Bob,

       

      Just to be sure, you are shooting in RAW, then converting to 8bit TIFF

      for stitching? If so, why 8bit instead of 16 bit? My suggestion would

      be to re-convert these images to 16bit TIFF, stitch again using the

      same pts file and see if that takes care of the banding.

       

      Mark

       

      ------------------------------------------------------------------------

       

      *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

      <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

      [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

      <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters

      *Sent:* Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:40 AM

      *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

      *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

       

       

       

       

      Hi Mark, Erik & Steve

       

      Here is the final stitched image:

      http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/dh_test.jpg

       

      The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in each row, they are all 8bit

      Tiffs, all shot at the same exposure and aperture.

       

      The banding is NOT visible in each individual image, it only becomes

      apparent in the final stitched image.

       

      The banding is not uniform across the whole stitched image, it would

      appear that each individual photo is producing it's own banding.

       

      Erik, I have sent the .pts file to your email address:

      erik.krause@... <mailto:erik.krause@...>

       

      If you guys need to see anything else, i.e individual adjacent sky

      images please let me know.

       

      Regards

       

      Bob

       

      ---------------------------------------

       

      On 7 Aug 2013, at 22:03, Steve Sheridan wrote:

       

       

       

      Mark Fink is right. If what you’re talking about is large horizontal

      bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It

      has nothing to do with your camera, its orientation, mount, or

      interpolators. Trace it back to the point where you can first see it

      and that’s where you will find the source of your problem. If you

      can’t see it in your RAW files or tiff conversions why would you think

      it’s camera related? If you are using uneven exposures going into

      PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It’s hard to say without

      seeing some examples. I honestly don’t know where people come up with

      some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait

      mode, really? I’m sure thousands of news, advertising, portrait, and

      architectural photographers would get a good laugh out of that one.

      I’ve been shooting with SLRs, rangefinders, twin lens reflex, and view

      cameras for over forty years and I’ve never heard of it or seen it. If

      it’s only apparent in panorama related situations then I would assume

      it has something to do with the panorama creation process. Please show

      us some samples.

       

      Steve Sheridan

       

      *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

      <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

      [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

      <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters

      *Sent:* Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:42 PM

      *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

      *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

       

      Canon 5D Mk II   ..OK I'll send you the .pts too.

       

      Thanks Erik

       

      On 7 Aug 2013, at 20:21, Erik Krause wrote:

       

       

       

       

      Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:

       

       

      The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR

       

         Drive.

       

       

      And what camera?

       

       

       

      Tom orrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so

       

         you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the

       

         individual images if that helps.

       

       

      That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file

      (just the .pts)?

       

      --

      Erik Krause

      http://www.erik-krause.de <http://www.erik-krause.de/>

       

       

      ------------------------------------

       

      --

      Yahoo! Groups Links

       

       

      PanoToolsNG-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

      <mailto:PanoToolsNG-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com>

       

       

       

       

       

       

      Reply via web post

      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyb25oYm5pBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MjI3ODQ4BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTAwNjQ5NgRtc2dJZAM1Njg2MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzNzU5NjQwMTM-?act=reply&messageNum=56862>

                  Reply to sender

      <mailto:markdfink@... ?subject=RE%3A%20%5BPanoToolsNG%5D%20Re%3A%20Horizontal%20banding%20in%20blue%20sky%20with%20PTGui>

                  Reply to group

      <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com ?subject=RE%3A%20%5BPanoToolsNG%5D%20Re%3A%20Horizontal%20banding%20in%20blue%20sky%20with%20PTGui>

                  Start a New Topic

      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmM2Z2cnY3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MjI3ODQ4BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTAwNjQ5NgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNzU5NjQwMTM->

                  Messages in this topic

      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/message/56845;_ylc=X3oDMTM3YnFiMnI3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MjI3ODQ4BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTAwNjQ5NgRtc2dJZAM1Njg2MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNzU5NjQwMTMEdHBjSWQDNTY4NDU->

      (14)

       

      Yahoo! Groups

      <http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcmJjdDE3BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE4MjI3ODQ4BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTAwNjQ5NgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTM3NTk2NDAxMw-->

       

      Switch to: Text-Only

      <mailto:PanoToolsNG-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change%20Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional>,

      Daily Digest

      <mailto:PanoToolsNG-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email%20Delivery:%20Digest>

      • Unsubscribe

      <mailto:PanoToolsNG-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> •

      Terms of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> • Send us Feedback

      <mailto:ygroupsnotifications@yahoogroups.com?subject=Feedback%20on%20the%20redesigned%20individual%20mail%20v1>

       

       

       

       

       

       



      ------------------------------------

      --
      <*> Wiki: http://wiki.panotools.org
      <*> User Guidelines: http://wiki.panotools.org/User_Guidelines
      <*> Nabble (Web) http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/
      <*> NG Member Map http://www.panomaps.com/ng
      <*> Moderators/List Admins: PanoToolsNG-owner@yahoogroups.com
      Yahoo! Groups Links

      <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
         http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/

      <*> Your email settings:
         Individual Email | Traditional

      <*> To change settings online go to:
         http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/join
         (Yahoo! ID required)

      <*> To change settings via email:
         PanoToolsNG-digest@yahoogroups.com
         PanoToolsNG-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

      <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
         PanoToolsNG-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

      <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
         http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

       

      Bob Masters fotógrafo
      Email: bob@... 
      Web:   http://www.bobmastersphotography.com

      Tel:     +34 93 428 4357

       




      Bob Masters fotógrafo
      Email: bob@... 
      Web:   http://www.bobmastersphotography.com
      Tel:     +34 93 428 4357

    • Steve Sheridan
      Nice work Bob! It looks like your hard work and troubleshooting paid off. Thank you for sharing the results and the screen grabs too. Steve From:
      Message 2 of 28 , Aug 9, 2013

        Nice work Bob! It looks like your hard work and troubleshooting paid off. Thank you for sharing the results and the screen grabs too.

        Steve

         

        From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
        Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 8:42 AM
        To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

         

         

        Gentlemen,

         

        I have had a good degree of success with a combination of all your suggestions, as follows:

         

        I converted all the RAWS to 16 bit TIFFS then corrected some of the vignetting, (which I knew caused vertical banding but wasn't sure about the horizontal banding). I then started a new project in PTGui stitching all the images again and outputting a 16bit .psb file.

         

        The resulting gigaphoto can be seen here:   http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/new_dh_test.jpg  ..the big Tiff looks much better as it has no compression artifacts, but at least one can see that the horizontal banding has been greatly reduced.

         

        In answer to Sacha's question, yes the Tiff did look the same as the Jpeg, although as you say due to compression artifacts the banding was more pronounced in the Jpeg image that I posted.

         

        I have posted a couple of PTGui screen grabs here: http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/screen_grabs.jpg  ...showing my settings to create the pan, they are the result of using the 'Optimize now' feature in the Exposure / HDR Tab and my final settings, I have used the Lanczos16 interpolator, ..is this a good choice? Any other observations where I may be going wrong would be appreciated

         

        BTW The images were shot on a Canon 5D MkII with a Canon 24-70mm f2.8L lens set at 70mm.

         

        Many thanks once again to all of you.

         

        Bob

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

        On 8 Aug 2013, at 19:00, Fulvio Senore wrote:



        You should try using the 16 bit files in a new PTGui project.

        I am not 100% sure but I remember that some years ago I did not pay
        attention and I converted some raw files to 8 bit tiffs, then I stitched
        them with PTGui. When I realized that the images where 8 bit I made a
        new raw conversion creating 16 bit tiff files with the same name, I
        overwrote the existing files, I opened PTGui and I stitched the panorama
        again.
        The resulting file did not increase in size and this was clearly a sign
        that the output file was still 8 bit.

        This happened years ago so maybe things have changed, but I suggest that
        you stich some 16 bit images in a new PTGui project to see if things get
        better.
        Using 8 bit images is a good reason to get banding in the sky.

        Fulvio Senore


        Il 08/08/2013 17.50, Bob Masters ha scritto:

         

         

        Hi Mark

         

        Yup I shot Raws.

         

        I did as you suggested and converted the images to 16 bit Tiffs in

        Photoshop then used the same.pts file as before. Sadly I still have the

        same banding effect. Do you think it would it help if I sent you the

        .pts (without images) to look at?

         

        Have you ever come across this problem before with clear blue skies?

        it's not the first time it's happened to me, perhaps I should just shoot

        on cloudy days in future.

         

        Bob

         

         

         

         

        On 8 Aug 2013, at 14:13, Mark D. Fink wrote:

         

         

        Hi Bob,

         

        Just to be sure, you are shooting in RAW, then converting to 8bit TIFF

        for stitching? If so, why 8bit instead of 16 bit? My suggestion would

        be to re-convert these images to 16bit TIFF, stitch again using the

        same pts file and see if that takes care of the banding.

         

        Mark

         

        ------------------------------------------------------------------------

         

        *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

        <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

        [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

        <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters

        *Sent:* Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:40 AM

        *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

        *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

         

         

         

         

        Hi Mark, Erik & Steve

         

        Here is the final stitched image:

        http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/dh_test.jpg

         

        The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in each row, they are all 8bit

        Tiffs, all shot at the same exposure and aperture.

         

        The banding is NOT visible in each individual image, it only becomes

        apparent in the final stitched image.

         

        The banding is not uniform across the whole stitched image, it would

        appear that each individual photo is producing it's own banding.

         

        Erik, I have sent the .pts file to your email address:

        erik.krause@... <mailto:erik.krause@...>

         

        If you guys need to see anything else, i.e individual adjacent sky

        images please let me know.

         

        Regards

         

        Bob

         

        ---------------------------------------

         

        On 7 Aug 2013, at 22:03, Steve Sheridan wrote:

         

         

         

        Mark Finkis right. If what you’re talking about is large horizontal

        bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It

        has nothing to do with your camera, its orientation, mount, or

        interpolators. Trace it back to the point where you can first see it

        and that’s where you will find the source of your problem. If you

        can’t see it in your RAW files or tiff conversions why would you think

        it’s camera related? If you are using uneven exposures going into

        PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It’s hard to say without

        seeing some examples. I honestly don’t know where people come up with

        some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait

        mode, really? I’m sure thousands of news, advertising, portrait, and

        architectural photographers would get a good laugh out of that one.

        I’ve been shooting with SLRs, rangefinders, twin lens reflex, and view

        cameras for over forty years and I’ve never heard of it or seen it. If

        it’s only apparent in panorama related situations then I would assume

        it has something to do with the panorama creation process. Please show

        us some samples.

         

        Steve Sheridan

         

        *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

        <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

        [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

        <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters

        *Sent:* Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:42 PM

        *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

        *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

         

        Canon 5D Mk II   ..OK I'll send you the .pts too.

         

        Thanks Erik

         

        On 7 Aug 2013, at 20:21, Erik Krause wrote:

         

         

         

         

        Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:

         

         

        The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR

         

           Drive.

         

         

        And what camera?

         

         

         

        Tomorrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so

         

           you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the

         

           individual images if that helps.

         

         

        That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file

        (just the .pts)?

         

        --

        Erik Krause

        http://www.erik-krause.de <http://www.erik-krause.de/>

         

         

        ------------------------------------

         

        --

        Yahoo! Groups Links

         

         

        PanoToolsNG-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

        <mailto:PanoToolsNG-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com>

         

         

         

         

         

         

        Reply via web post

        <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyb25oYm5pBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MjI3ODQ4BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTAwNjQ5NgRtc2dJZAM1Njg2MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzNzU5NjQwMTM-?act=reply&messageNum=56862>

                    Reply to sender

        <mailto:markdfink@...?subject=RE%3A%20%5BPanoToolsNG%5D%20Re%3A%20Horizontal%20banding%20in%20blue%20sky%20with%20PTGui>

                    Reply to group

        <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com?subject=RE%3A%20%5BPanoToolsNG%5D%20Re%3A%20Horizontal%20banding%20in%20blue%20sky%20with%20PTGui>

                    Start a New Topic

        <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmM2Z2cnY3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MjI3ODQ4BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTAwNjQ5NgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNzU5NjQwMTM->

                    Messages in this topic

        <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/message/56845;_ylc=X3oDMTM3YnFiMnI3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MjI3ODQ4BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTAwNjQ5NgRtc2dJZAM1Njg2MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNzU5NjQwMTMEdHBjSWQDNTY4NDU->

        (14)

         

        Yahoo! Groups

        <http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcmJjdDE3BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE4MjI3ODQ4BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTAwNjQ5NgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTM3NTk2NDAxMw-->

         

        Switch to: Text-Only

        <mailto:PanoToolsNG-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change%20Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional>,

        Daily Digest

        <mailto:PanoToolsNG-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email%20Delivery:%20Digest>

        • Unsubscribe

        <mailto:PanoToolsNG-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> •

        Terms of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> • Send us Feedback

        <mailto:ygroupsnotifications@yahoogroups.com?subject=Feedback%20on%20the%20redesigned%20individual%20mail%20v1>

         

         

         

         

         

         



        ------------------------------------

        --
        <*> Wiki: http://wiki.panotools.org
        <*> User Guidelines: http://wiki.panotools.org/User_Guidelines
        <*> Nabble (Web) http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/
        <*> NG Member Map http://www.panomaps.com/ng
        <*> Moderators/List Admins: PanoToolsNG-owner@yahoogroups.com
        Yahoo! Groups Links

        <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
           http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/

        <*> Your email settings:
           Individual Email | Traditional

        <*> To change settings online go to:
           http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/join
           (Yahoo! ID required)

        <*> To change settings via email:
           PanoToolsNG-digest@yahoogroups.com
           PanoToolsNG-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

        <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
           PanoToolsNG-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

        <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
           http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

         

        Bob Masters fotógrafo
        Email: bob@... 
        Web:   http://www.bobmastersphotography.com

        Tel:     +34 93 428 4357

         

      • David
        There are many reasons to get artifacts in clear blue skies that I have run into. I think they have all been mentioned in this thread, though I was not aware
        Message 3 of 28 , Aug 9, 2013
          There are many reasons to get artifacts in clear blue skies that I have run into. I think they have all been mentioned in this thread, though I was not aware of the shutter current one.

          I would think an appropriately intelligent person (not me) could write a special sky fixing filter that samples the sky and restores the smooth gradient and thereby fix all kinds of jpg, 8bit, shutter curtain sky banding/etc. This would be an awesome feature to go along with OnOne's masking tool. Any volunteers?

          There is still a problem with common sharing sites such as 360cities where you will get sky banding regardless of whether you had it in your originals or not. I assume due to compression they use on their site. It would be great if they could improve their sky compression quality.

          David B

          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Erik Krause <erik.krause@...> wrote:
          >
          > Am 07.08.2013 22:03, schrieb Steve Sheridan:
          > > If you are using uneven
          > > exposures going into PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It's hard
          > > to say without seeing some examples. I honestly don't know where people come
          > > up with some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait
          > > mode, really?
          >
          > Before you bash rewarded and very experienced photographers think of the
          > following: In a DSLR both shutter curtains don't necessarily travel at
          > the same speed. This is most noticeable at fast shutter speeds, when
          > only a narrow slit moves across the sensor. If stitched in a panorama
          > the brighter side of an image is adjacent to the darker one in the next
          > image. In bright blue sky this is most noticeable.
          >
          > That was what Ayrton was talking about. It is a well known and well
          > documented phenomenon. Hans Nyberg has some example images, but
          > unfortunately I can't find them ATM.
          >
          > If shot in portrait mode this causes vertically repeating lighter and
          > darker zones across the image which can be seen in lots of gigapixel
          > images, f.e. in this one: http://www.gigapan.com/gigapans/117457
          >
          > Consequently this structures would be horizontal if shot in landscape mode.
          >
          > --
          > Erik Krause
          > http://www.erik-krause.de
          >
        • Sacha Griffin
          You should correct all your vignetting in raw format. I donÆt think that lens/focal length combination will give you enough vignetting that it canÆt be
          Message 4 of 28 , Aug 9, 2013

            You should correct all your vignetting in raw format. I don’t think that lens/focal length combination will give you enough vignetting that it can’t be completely correcting in adobe raw convertor.

             

            The original chromatic banding does look like a combination of 8 bit image editing combined with a medium level jpg compression. Do all your editing in 16 bit always. Also the file path “lightbox” may indicate it’s been processed by your web server ie recompressed. If you’ve just gone from 16bit tiff, to JPG level 10 and nothing else. Then your new image still doesn’t look right. It looks like jpg level 6. For normal web delivery, this is just fine. It’s really unavoidable and there are more important things to worry about. For image archival/printing, you don’t want that of course.

             

            Best Regards,

             

            Sacha Griffin

            Southern Digital Solutions LLC  - Atlanta, Georgia

            http://www.seeit360.com

            http://twitter.com/SeeIt360

            http://www.facebook.com/SeeIt360

            IM: sachagriffin007@...

            Office: 404-551-4275

             

             

            From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
            Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 9:42 AM
            To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

             

             

            Gentlemen,

             

            I have had a good degree of success with a combination of all your suggestions, as follows:

             

            I converted all the RAWS to 16 bit TIFFS then corrected some of the vignetting, (which I knew caused vertical banding but wasn't sure about the horizontal banding). I then started a new project in PTGui stitching all the images again and outputting a 16bit .psb file.

             

            The resulting gigaphoto can be seen here:   http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/new_dh_test.jpg  ..the big Tiff looks much better as it has no compression artifacts, but at least one can see that the horizontal banding has been greatly reduced.

             

            In answer to Sacha's question, yes the Tiff did look the same as the Jpeg, although as you say due to compression artifacts the banding was more pronounced in the Jpeg image that I posted.

             

            I have posted a couple of PTGui screen grabs here: http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/screen_grabs.jpg  ...showing my settings to create the pan, they are the result of using the 'Optimize now' feature in the Exposure / HDR Tab and my final settings, I have used the Lanczos16 interpolator, ..is this a good choice? Any other observations where I may be going wrong would be appreciated

             

            BTW The images were shot on a Canon 5D MkII with a Canon 24-70mm f2.8L lens set at 70mm.

             

            Many thanks once again to all of you.

             

            Bob

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

            On 8 Aug 2013, at 19:00, Fulvio Senore wrote:



            You should try using the 16 bit files in a new PTGui project.

            I am not 100% sure but I remember that some years ago I did not pay
            attention and I converted some raw files to 8 bit tiffs, then I stitched
            them with PTGui. When I realized that the images where 8 bit I made a
            new raw conversion creating 16 bit tiff files with the same name, I
            overwrote the existing files, I opened PTGui and I stitched the panorama
            again.
            The resulting file did not increase in size and this was clearly a sign
            that the output file was still 8 bit.

            This happened years ago so maybe things have changed, but I suggest that
            you stich some 16 bit images in a new PTGui project to see if things get
            better.
            Using 8 bit images is a good reason to get banding in the sky.

            Fulvio Senore


            Il 08/08/2013 17.50, Bob Masters ha scritto:

             

             

            Hi Mark

             

            Yup I shot Raws.

             

            I did as you suggested and converted the images to 16 bit Tiffs in

            Photoshop then used the same.pts file as before. Sadly I still have the

            same banding effect. Do you think it would it help if I sent you the

            .pts (without images) to look at?

             

            Have you ever come across this problem before with clear blue skies?

            it's not the first time it's happened to me, perhaps I should just shoot

            on cloudy days in future.

             

            Bob

             

             

             

             

            On 8 Aug 2013, at 14:13, Mark D. Fink wrote:

             

             

            Hi Bob,

             

            Just to be sure, you are shooting in RAW, then converting to 8bit TIFF

            for stitching? If so, why 8bit instead of 16 bit? My suggestion would

            be to re-convert these images to 16bit TIFF, stitch again using the

            same pts file and see if that takes care of the banding.

             

            Mark

             

            ------------------------------------------------------------------------

             

            *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

            <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

            [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

            <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters

            *Sent:* Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:40 AM

            *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

            *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

             

             

             

             

            Hi Mark, Erik & Steve

             

            Here is the final stitched image:

            http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/dh_test.jpg

             

            The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in each row, they are all 8bit

            Tiffs, all shot at the same exposure and aperture.

             

            The banding is NOT visible in each individual image, it only becomes

            apparent in the final stitched image.

             

            The banding is not uniform across the whole stitched image, it would

            appear that each individual photo is producing it's own banding.

             

            Erik, I have sent the .pts file to your email address:

            erik.krause@... <mailto:erik.krause@...>

             

            If you guys need to see anything else, i.e individual adjacent sky

            images please let me know.

             

            Regards

             

            Bob

             

            ---------------------------------------

             

            On 7 Aug 2013, at 22:03, Steve Sheridan wrote:

             

             

             

            Mark Finkis right. If what you’re talking about is large horizontal

            bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It

            has nothing to do with your camera, its orientation, mount, or

            interpolators. Trace it back to the point where you can first see it

            and that’s where you will find the source of your problem. If you

            can’t see it in your RAW files or tiff conversions why would you think

            it’s camera related? If you are using uneven exposures going into

            PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It’s hard to say without

            seeing some examples. I honestly don’t know where people come up with

            some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait

            mode, really? I’m sure thousands of news, advertising, portrait, and

            architectural photographers would get a good laugh out of that one.

            I’ve been shooting with SLRs, rangefinders, twin lens reflex, and view

            cameras for over forty years and I’ve never heard of it or seen it. If

            it’s only apparent in panorama related situations then I would assume

            it has something to do with the panorama creation process. Please show

            us some samples.

             

            Steve Sheridan

             

            *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

            <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

            [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

            <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters

            *Sent:* Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:42 PM

            *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

            *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

             

            Canon 5D Mk II   ..OK I'll send you the .pts too.

             

            Thanks Erik

             

            On 7 Aug 2013, at 20:21, Erik Krause wrote:

             

             

             

             

            Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:

             

             

            The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR

             

               Drive.

             

             

            And what camera?

             

             

             

            Tomorrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so

             

               you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the

             

               individual images if that helps.

             

             

            That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file

            (just the .pts)?

             

            --

            Erik Krause

            http://www.erik-krause.de <http://www.erik-krause.de/>

             

             

            ------------------------------------

             

            --

            Yahoo! Groups Links

             

             

            PanoToolsNG-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

            <mailto:PanoToolsNG-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com>

             

             

             

             

             

             

            Reply via web post

            <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyb25oYm5pBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MjI3ODQ4BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTAwNjQ5NgRtc2dJZAM1Njg2MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzNzU5NjQwMTM-?act=reply&messageNum=56862>

                        Reply to sender

            <mailto:markdfink@...?subject=RE%3A%20%5BPanoToolsNG%5D%20Re%3A%20Horizontal%20banding%20in%20blue%20sky%20with%20PTGui>

                        Reply to group

            <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com?subject=RE%3A%20%5BPanoToolsNG%5D%20Re%3A%20Horizontal%20banding%20in%20blue%20sky%20with%20PTGui>

                        Start a New Topic

            <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmM2Z2cnY3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MjI3ODQ4BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTAwNjQ5NgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNzU5NjQwMTM->

                        Messages in this topic

            <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/message/56845;_ylc=X3oDMTM3YnFiMnI3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MjI3ODQ4BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTAwNjQ5NgRtc2dJZAM1Njg2MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNzU5NjQwMTMEdHBjSWQDNTY4NDU->

            (14)

             

            Yahoo! Groups

            <http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcmJjdDE3BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE4MjI3ODQ4BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTAwNjQ5NgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTM3NTk2NDAxMw-->

             

            Switch to: Text-Only

            <mailto:PanoToolsNG-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change%20Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional>,

            Daily Digest

            <mailto:PanoToolsNG-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email%20Delivery:%20Digest>

            • Unsubscribe

            <mailto:PanoToolsNG-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> •

            Terms of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> • Send us Feedback

            <mailto:ygroupsnotifications@yahoogroups.com?subject=Feedback%20on%20the%20redesigned%20individual%20mail%20v1>

             

             

             

             

             

             



            ------------------------------------

            --
            <*> Wiki: http://wiki.panotools.org
            <*> User Guidelines: http://wiki.panotools.org/User_Guidelines
            <*> Nabble (Web) http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/
            <*> NG Member Map http://www.panomaps.com/ng
            <*> Moderators/List Admins: PanoToolsNG-owner@yahoogroups.com
            Yahoo! Groups Links

            <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
               http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/

            <*> Your email settings:
               Individual Email | Traditional

            <*> To change settings online go to:
               http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/join
               (Yahoo! ID required)

            <*> To change settings via email:
               PanoToolsNG-digest@yahoogroups.com
               PanoToolsNG-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

            <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
               PanoToolsNG-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

            <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
               http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

             

            Bob Masters fotógrafo
            Email: bob@... 
            Web:   http://www.bobmastersphotography.com

            Tel:     +34 93 428 4357

             

          • Erik Krause
            ... If you want to avoid compression banding you can add some noise to sky only (or leave it there - Aggressive de-noising isn t recommended anyway). -- Erik
            Message 5 of 28 , Aug 9, 2013
              Am 09.08.2013 20:00, schrieb David:
              > There is still a problem with common sharing sites such as 360cities
              > where you will get sky banding regardless of whether you had it in
              > your originals or not. I assume due to compression they use on their
              > site. It would be great if they could improve their sky compression
              > quality.

              If you want to avoid compression banding you can add some noise to sky
              only (or leave it there - Aggressive de-noising isn't recommended anyway).

              --
              Erik Krause
              http://www.erik-krause.de
            • David
              I ve tried adding noise but so far not been real pleased with the results. I don t really like noise, or banding. David B
              Message 6 of 28 , Aug 10, 2013
                I've tried adding noise but so far not been real pleased with the results. I don't really like noise, or banding.

                David B


                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Erik Krause <erik.krause@...> wrote:
                >
                > Am 09.08.2013 20:00, schrieb David:
                > > There is still a problem with common sharing sites such as 360cities
                > > where you will get sky banding regardless of whether you had it in
                > > your originals or not. I assume due to compression they use on their
                > > site. It would be great if they could improve their sky compression
                > > quality.
                >
                > If you want to avoid compression banding you can add some noise to sky
                > only (or leave it there - Aggressive de-noising isn't recommended anyway).
                >
                > --
                > Erik Krause
                > http://www.erik-krause.de
                >
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.