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RE: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

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  • Steve Sheridan
    Mark Fink is right. If what you re talking about is large horizontal bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It has nothing to do
    Message 1 of 28 , Aug 7, 2013
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      Mark Fink is right. If what you’re talking about is large horizontal bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It has nothing to do with your camera, its orientation, mount, or interpolators. Trace it back to the point where you can first see it and that’s where you will find the source of your problem. If you can’t see it in your RAW files or tiff conversions why would you think it’s camera related? If you are using uneven exposures going into PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It’s hard to say without seeing some examples. I honestly don’t know where people come up with some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait mode, really? I’m sure thousands of news, advertising, portrait, and architectural photographers would get a good laugh out of that one. I’ve been shooting with SLRs, rangefinders, twin lens reflex, and view cameras for over forty years and I’ve never heard of it or seen it. If it’s only apparent in panorama related situations then I would assume it has something to do with the panorama creation process. Please show us some samples.

       

      Steve Sheridan

      From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
      Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:42 PM
      To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

       

       

      Canon 5D Mk II   ..OK I'll send you the .pts too. 

       

      Thanks Erik

       

       

       

      On 7 Aug 2013, at 20:21, Erik Krause wrote:



      Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:

      The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR

      Drive.


      And what camera?


      Tomorrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so

      you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the

      individual images if that helps.


      That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file
      (just the .pts)?

      --
      Erik Krause
      http://www.erik-krause.de


      ------------------------------------

      --
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    • Bob Masters
      Hi Mark, Erik & Steve Here is the final stitched image: http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/dh_test.jpg The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in
      Message 2 of 28 , Aug 8, 2013
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        Hi Mark, Erik & Steve



        The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in each row, they are all 8bit Tiffs, all shot at the same exposure and aperture.

        The banding is NOT visible in each individual image, it only becomes apparent in the final stitched image.

        The banding is not uniform across the whole stitched image, it would appear that each individual photo is producing it's own banding.

        Erik, I have sent the .pts file to your email address: erik.krause@...

        If you guys need to see anything else, i.e individual adjacent 
        sky images please let me know.

        Regards

        Bob


                                                    ---------------------------------------



        On 7 Aug 2013, at 22:03, Steve Sheridan wrote:

         

        Mark Fink is right. If what you’re talking about is large horizontal bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It has nothing to do with your camera, its orientation, mount, or interpolators. Trace it back to the point where you can first see it and that’s where you will find the source of your problem. If you can’t see it in your RAW files or tiff conversions why would you think it’s camera related? If you are using uneven exposures going into PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It’s hard to say without seeing some examples. I honestly don’t know where people come up with some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait mode, really? I’m sure thousands of news, advertising, portrait, and architectural photographers would get a good laugh out of that one. I’ve been shooting with SLRs, rangefinders, twin lens reflex, and view cameras for over forty years and I’ve never heard of it or seen it. If it’s only apparent in panorama related situations then I would assume it has something to do with the panorama creation process. Please show us some samples.

         

        Steve Sheridan

        From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
        Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:42 PM
        To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

         

         

        Canon 5D Mk II   ..OK I'll send you the .pts too. 

         

        Thanks Erik

         

         

         

        On 7 Aug 2013, at 20:21, Erik Krause wrote:



        Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:

        The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR

        Drive.


        And what camera?


        Tomorrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so

        you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the

        individual images if that helps.


        That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file
        (just the .pts)?

        --
        Erik Krause
        http://www.erik-krause.de


        ------------------------------------

        --
        <*> Wiki: http://wiki.panotools.org
        <*> User Guidelines: http://wiki.panotools.org/User_Guidelines
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        Bob Masters fotógrafo
        Email: bob@... 
        Web:   http://www.bobmastersphotography.com
        Tel:     +34 93 428 4357

      • Mark D. Fink
        Hi Bob, Just to be sure, you are shooting in RAW, then converting to 8bit TIFF for stitching? If so, why 8bit instead of 16 bit? My suggestion would be to
        Message 3 of 28 , Aug 8, 2013
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          Hi Bob,

           

          Just to be sure, you are shooting in RAW, then converting to 8bit TIFF for stitching? If so, why 8bit instead of 16 bit? My suggestion would be to re-convert these images to 16bit TIFF, stitch again using the same pts file and see if that takes care of the banding.

           

          Mark

           


          From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
          Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:40 AM
          To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

           




          Hi Mark, Erik & Steve

           

           

           

          The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in each row, they are all 8bit Tiffs, all shot at the same exposure and aperture.

           

          The banding is NOT visible in each individual image, it only becomes apparent in the final stitched image.

           

          The banding is not uniform across the whole stitched image, it would appear that each individual photo is producing it's own banding.

           

          Erik, I have sent the .pts file to your email address: erik.krause@...

           

          If you guys need to see anything else, i.e individual adjacent sky images please let me know.

           

          Regards

           

          Bob

           

           

                                                      ---------------------------------------

           

           

           

          On 7 Aug 2013, at 22:03, Steve Sheridan wrote:



           

           

          Mark Fink is right. If what you’re talking about is large horizontal bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It has nothing to do with your camera, its orientation, mount, or interpolators. Trace it back to the point where you can first see it and that’s where you will find the source of your problem. If you can’t see it in your RAW files or tiff conversions why would you think it’s camera related? If you are using uneven exposures going into PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It’s hard to say without seeing some examples. I honestly don’t know where people come up with some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait mode, really? I’m sure thousands of news, advertising, portrait, and architectural photographers would get a good laugh out of that one. I’ve been shooting with SLRs, rangefinders, twin lens reflex, and view cameras for over forty years and I’ve never heard of it or seen it. If it’s only apparent in panorama related situations then I would assume it has something to do with the panorama creation process. Please show us some samples.

           

          Steve Sheridan

          From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
          Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:42 PM
          To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

           

           

          Canon 5D Mk II   ..OK I'll send you the .pts too. 

           

          Thanks Erik

           

           

           

          On 7 Aug 2013, at 20:21, Erik Krause wrote:




          Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:


          The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR

          Drive.


          And what camera?



          Tom orrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so

          you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the

          individual images if that helps.


          That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file
          (just the .pts)?

          --
          Erik Krause
          http://www.erik-krause.de


          ------------------------------------

          --
          <*> Wiki: http://wiki.panotools.org
          <*> User Guidelines: http://wiki.panotools.org/User_Guidelines
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          Bob Masters fotógrafo
          Email: bob@... 
          Web:   http://www.bobmastersphotography.com

          Tel:     +34 93 428 4357

           


        • Bob Masters
          Hi Mark Yup I shot Raws. I did as you suggested and converted the images to 16 bit Tiffs in Photoshop then used the same.pts file as before. Sadly I still have
          Message 4 of 28 , Aug 8, 2013
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            Hi Mark

            Yup I shot Raws.

            I did as you suggested and converted the images to 16 bit Tiffs in Photoshop then used the same.pts file as before. Sadly I still have the same banding effect. Do you think it would it help if I sent you the .pts (without images) to look at? 

            Have you ever come across this problem before with clear blue skies? it's not the first time it's happened to me, perhaps I should just shoot on cloudy days in future.

            Bob




            On 8 Aug 2013, at 14:13, Mark D. Fink wrote:

             

            Hi Bob,

             

            Just to be sure, you are shooting in RAW, then converting to 8bit TIFF for stitching? If so, why 8bit instead of 16 bit? My suggestion would be to re-convert these images to 16bit TIFF, stitch again using the same pts file and see if that takes care of the banding.

             

            Mark

             


            From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
            Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:40 AM
            To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

             




            Hi Mark, Erik & Steve

             

             

             

            The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in each row, they are all 8bit Tiffs, all shot at the same exposure and aperture.

             

            The banding is NOT visible in each individual image, it only becomes apparent in the final stitched image.

             

            The banding is not uniform across the whole stitched image, it would appear that each individual photo is producing it's own banding.

             

            Erik, I have sent the .pts file to your email address: erik.krause@...

             

            If you guys need to see anything else, i.e individual adjacent sky images please let me know.

             

            Regards

             

            Bob

             

             

                                                        ---------------------------------------

             

             

             

            On 7 Aug 2013, at 22:03, Steve Sheridan wrote:



             

             

            Mark Fink is right. If what you’re talking about is large horizontal bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It has nothing to do with your camera, its orientation, mount, or interpolators. Trace it back to the point where you can first see it and that’s where you will find the source of your problem. If you can’t see it in your RAW files or tiff conversions why would you think it’s camera related? If you are using uneven exposures going into PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It’s hard to say without seeing some examples. I honestly don’t know where people come up with some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait mode, really? I’m sure thousands of news, advertising, portrait, and architectural photographers would get a good laugh out of that one. I’ve been shooting with SLRs, rangefinders, twin lens reflex, and view cameras for over forty years and I’ve never heard of it or seen it. If it’s only apparent in panorama related situations then I would assume it has something to do with the panorama creation process. Please show us some samples.

             

            Steve Sheridan

            From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
            Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:42 PM
            To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

             

             

            Canon 5D Mk II   ..OK I'll send you the .pts too. 

             

            Thanks Erik

             

             

             

            On 7 Aug 2013, at 20:21, Erik Krause wrote:




            Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:


            The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR

            Drive.


            And what camera?



            Tom orrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so

            you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the

            individual images if that helps.


            That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file
            (just the .pts)?

            --
            Erik Krause
            http://www.erik-krause.de


            ------------------------------------

            --
            <*> Wiki: http://wiki.panotools.org
            <*> User Guidelines: http://wiki.panotools.org/User_Guidelines
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          • Fulvio Senore
            You should try using the 16 bit files in a new PTGui project. I am not 100% sure but I remember that some years ago I did not pay attention and I converted
            Message 5 of 28 , Aug 8, 2013
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              You should try using the 16 bit files in a new PTGui project.

              I am not 100% sure but I remember that some years ago I did not pay
              attention and I converted some raw files to 8 bit tiffs, then I stitched
              them with PTGui. When I realized that the images where 8 bit I made a
              new raw conversion creating 16 bit tiff files with the same name, I
              overwrote the existing files, I opened PTGui and I stitched the panorama
              again.
              The resulting file did not increase in size and this was clearly a sign
              that the output file was still 8 bit.

              This happened years ago so maybe things have changed, but I suggest that
              you stich some 16 bit images in a new PTGui project to see if things get
              better.
              Using 8 bit images is a good reason to get banding in the sky.

              Fulvio Senore


              Il 08/08/2013 17.50, Bob Masters ha scritto:
              >
              >
              > Hi Mark
              >
              > Yup I shot Raws.
              >
              > I did as you suggested and converted the images to 16 bit Tiffs in
              > Photoshop then used the same.pts file as before. Sadly I still have the
              > same banding effect. Do you think it would it help if I sent you the
              > .pts (without images) to look at?
              >
              > Have you ever come across this problem before with clear blue skies?
              > it's not the first time it's happened to me, perhaps I should just shoot
              > on cloudy days in future.
              >
              > Bob
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > On 8 Aug 2013, at 14:13, Mark D. Fink wrote:
              >
              >>
              >> Hi Bob,
              >>
              >> Just to be sure, you are shooting in RAW, then converting to 8bit TIFF
              >> for stitching? If so, why 8bit instead of 16 bit? My suggestion would
              >> be to re-convert these images to 16bit TIFF, stitch again using the
              >> same pts file and see if that takes care of the banding.
              >>
              >> Mark
              >>
              >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >>
              >> *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
              >> <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>
              >> [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
              >> <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters
              >> *Sent:* Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:40 AM
              >> *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>
              >> *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> Hi Mark, Erik & Steve
              >>
              >> Here is the final stitched image:
              >> http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/dh_test.jpg
              >>
              >> The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in each row, they are all 8bit
              >> Tiffs, all shot at the same exposure and aperture.
              >>
              >> The banding is NOT visible in each individual image, it only becomes
              >> apparent in the final stitched image.
              >>
              >> The banding is not uniform across the whole stitched image, it would
              >> appear that each individual photo is producing it's own banding.
              >>
              >> Erik, I have sent the .pts file to your email address:
              >> erik.krause@... <mailto:erik.krause@...>
              >>
              >> If you guys need to see anything else, i.e individual adjacent sky
              >> images please let me know.
              >>
              >> Regards
              >>
              >> Bob
              >>
              >> ---------------------------------------
              >>
              >> On 7 Aug 2013, at 22:03, Steve Sheridan wrote:
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> Mark Finkis right. If what you’re talking about is large horizontal
              >> bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It
              >> has nothing to do with your camera, its orientation, mount, or
              >> interpolators. Trace it back to the point where you can first see it
              >> and that’s where you will find the source of your problem. If you
              >> can’t see it in your RAW files or tiff conversions why would you think
              >> it’s camera related? If you are using uneven exposures going into
              >> PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It’s hard to say without
              >> seeing some examples. I honestly don’t know where people come up with
              >> some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait
              >> mode, really? I’m sure thousands of news, advertising, portrait, and
              >> architectural photographers would get a good laugh out of that one.
              >> I’ve been shooting with SLRs, rangefinders, twin lens reflex, and view
              >> cameras for over forty years and I’ve never heard of it or seen it. If
              >> it’s only apparent in panorama related situations then I would assume
              >> it has something to do with the panorama creation process. Please show
              >> us some samples.
              >>
              >> Steve Sheridan
              >>
              >> *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
              >> <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>
              >> [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
              >> <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters
              >> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:42 PM
              >> *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>
              >> *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui
              >>
              >> Canon 5D Mk II ..OK I'll send you the .pts too.
              >>
              >> Thanks Erik
              >>
              >> On 7 Aug 2013, at 20:21, Erik Krause wrote:
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:
              >>
              >>
              >> The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR
              >>
              >> Drive.
              >>
              >>
              >> And what camera?
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> Tomorrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so
              >>
              >> you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the
              >>
              >> individual images if that helps.
              >>
              >>
              >> That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file
              >> (just the .pts)?
              >>
              >> --
              >> Erik Krause
              >> http://www.erik-krause.de <http://www.erik-krause.de/>
              >>
              >>
              >> ------------------------------------
              >>
              >> --
              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
              >>
              >>
              >> PanoToolsNG-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
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            • Mark D. Fink
              Hi Bob, One last question I should have posed earlier: are you outputting to 8bit or 16bit? If 8bit, change the output to 16bit and see if that clears up the
              Message 6 of 28 , Aug 8, 2013
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                Hi Bob,

                 

                One last question I should have posed earlier: are you outputting to 8bit or 16bit? If 8bit, change the output to 16bit and see if that clears up the banding. Ideally, you should have 16bit all the way through to the final stitch. Then, if you need a JPG for web publishing, use Photoshop or Lightroom to convert to 8bit.

                 

                Mark

                 


                From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
                Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 11:50 AM
                To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                 



                Hi Mark

                 

                Yup I shot Raws.

                 

                I did as you suggested and converted the images to 16 bit Tiffs in Photoshop then used the same.pts file as before. Sadly I still have the same banding effect. Do you think it would it help if I sent you the .pts (without images) to look at? 

                 

                Have you ever come across this problem before with clear blue skies? it's not the first time it's happened to me, perhaps I should just shoot on cloudy days in future.

                 

                Bob

                 

                 

                 

                 

                On 8 Aug 2013, at 14:13, Mark D. Fink wrote:



                 

                 

                Hi Bob,

                 

                Just to be sure, you are shooting in RAW, then converting to 8bit TIFF for stitching? If so, why 8bit instead of 16 bit? My suggestion would be to re-convert these images to 16bit TIFF, stitch again using the same pts file and see if that takes care of the banding.

                 

                Mark

                 


                From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
                Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:40 AM
                To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                 





                Hi Mark, Erik & Steve

                 

                 

                 

                The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in each row, they are all 8bit Tiffs, all shot at the same exposure and aperture.

                 

                The banding is NOT visible in each individual image, it only becomes apparent in the final stitched image.

                 

                The banding is not uniform across the whole stitched image, it would appear that each individual photo is producing it's own banding.

                 

                Erik, I have sent the .pts file to your email address: erik.krause@...

                 

                If you guys need to see anything else, i.e individual adjacent sky images please let me know.

                 

                Regards

                 

                Bob

                 

                 

                                                            ---------------------------------------

                 

                 

                 

                On 7 Aug 2013, at 22:03, Steve Sheridan wrote:




                 

                 

                Mark Fink is right. If what you’re talking about is large horizontal bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It has nothing to do with your camera, its orientation, mount, or interpolators. Trace it back to the point where you can first see it and that’s where you will find the source of your problem. If you can’t see it in your RAW files or tiff conversions why would you think it’s camera related? If you are using uneven exposures going into PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It’s hard to say without seeing some examples. I honestly don’t know where people come up with some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait mode, really? I’m sure thousands of news, advertising, portrait, and architectural photographers would get a good laugh out of that one. I’ve been shooting with SLRs, rangefinders, twin lens reflex, and view cameras for over forty years and I’ve never heard of it or seen it. If it’s only apparent in panorama related situations then I would assume it has something to do with the panorama creation process. Please show us some samples.

                 

                Steve Sheridan

                From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
                Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:42 PM
                To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                 

                 

                Canon 5D Mk II   ..OK I'll send you the .pts too. 

                 

                Thanks Erik

                 

                 

                 

                On 7 Aug 2013, at 20:21, Erik Krause wrote:





                Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:



                The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR

                Drive.


                And what camera?




                Tom orrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so

                you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the

                individual images if that helps.


                That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file
                (just the .pts)?

                --
                Erik Krause
                http://www.erik-krause.de


                ------------------------------------

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              • Steve Sheridan
                Hi Bob, Thanks for sending the link. This not what I expected to see when you described it as color banding. This is very subtle and looks more like
                Message 7 of 28 , Aug 8, 2013
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                  Hi Bob,

                  Thanks for sending the link. This not what I expected to see when you described it as color banding. This is very subtle and looks more like compression artifacts. Have tried out putting to tiff instead of jpeg? If not, what are your jpeg compression settings? If outputting to tiff looks good, I would recommend converting from tiff to jpeg in Photoshop at a quality setting of about 90. FYI. I always keep my images at the highest quality settings (16 bit tiff) and then convert to jpeg for web use if necessary. I also use Adobe RGB for the color space as it has wider gamut range. Very nice photo by the way.

                  Steve

                   

                   

                  From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
                  Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 3:40 AM
                  To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                   

                   

                  Hi Mark, Erik & Steve

                   

                   

                   

                  The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in each row, they are all 8bit Tiffs, all shot at the same exposure and aperture.

                   

                  The banding is NOT visible in each individual image, it only becomes apparent in the final stitched image.

                   

                  The banding is not uniform across the whole stitched image, it would appear that each individual photo is producing it's own banding.

                   

                  Erik, I have sent the .pts file to your email address: erik.krause@...

                   

                  If you guys need to see anything else, i.e individual adjacent sky images please let me know.

                   

                  Regards

                   

                  Bob

                   

                   

                                                              ---------------------------------------

                   

                   

                   

                  On 7 Aug 2013, at 22:03, Steve Sheridan wrote:



                   

                   

                  Mark Fink is right. If what you’re talking about is large horizontal bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It has nothing to do with your camera, its orientation, mount, or interpolators. Trace it back to the point where you can first see it and that’s where you will find the source of your problem. If you can’t see it in your RAW files or tiff conversions why would you think it’s camera related? If you are using uneven exposures going into PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It’s hard to say without seeing some examples. I honestly don’t know where people come up with some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait mode, really? I’m sure thousands of news, advertising, portrait, and architectural photographers would get a good laugh out of that one. I’ve been shooting with SLRs, rangefinders, twin lens reflex, and view cameras for over forty years and I’ve never heard of it or seen it. If it’s only apparent in panorama related situations then I would assume it has something to do with the panorama creation process. Please show us some samples.

                   

                  Steve Sheridan

                  From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
                  Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:42 PM
                  To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                   

                   

                  Canon 5D Mk II   ..OK I'll send you the .pts too. 

                   

                  Thanks Erik

                   

                   

                   

                  On 7 Aug 2013, at 20:21, Erik Krause wrote:




                  Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:


                  The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR

                  Drive.


                  And what camera?



                  Tomorrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so

                  you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the

                  individual images if that helps.


                  That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file
                  (just the .pts)?

                  --
                  Erik Krause
                  http://www.erik-krause.de


                  ------------------------------------

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                  Bob Masters fotógrafo
                  Email: bob@... 
                  Web:   http://www.bobmastersphotography.com

                  Tel:     +34 93 428 4357

                   

                • Sacha Griffin
                  Looks like your standard iberal jpg compression to me. I assume you stitched to a tif and then saved as a jpg. Does the tif look the same? Best Regards, Sacha
                  Message 8 of 28 , Aug 8, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment

                    Looks like your standard iberal jpg compression to me.

                    I assume you stitched to a tif and then saved as a jpg.

                    Does the tif look the same?

                     

                    Best Regards,

                     

                    Sacha Griffin

                    Southern Digital Solutions LLC  - Atlanta, Georgia

                    http://www.seeit360.com

                    http://twitter.com/SeeIt360

                    http://www.facebook.com/SeeIt360

                    IM: sachagriffin007@...

                    Office: 404-551-4275

                     

                     

                    From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
                    Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:40 AM
                    To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                     

                     

                    Hi Mark, Erik & Steve

                     

                     

                     

                    The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in each row, they are all 8bit Tiffs, all shot at the same exposure and aperture.

                     

                    The banding is NOT visible in each individual image, it only becomes apparent in the final stitched image.

                     

                    The banding is not uniform across the whole stitched image, it would appear that each individual photo is producing it's own banding.

                     

                    Erik, I have sent the .pts file to your email address: erik.krause@...

                     

                    If you guys need to see anything else, i.e individual adjacent sky images please let me know.

                     

                    Regards

                     

                    Bob

                     

                  • Erik Krause
                    ... Before you bash rewarded and very experienced photographers think of the following: In a DSLR both shutter curtains don t necessarily travel at the same
                    Message 9 of 28 , Aug 8, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Am 07.08.2013 22:03, schrieb Steve Sheridan:
                      > If you are using uneven
                      > exposures going into PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It's hard
                      > to say without seeing some examples. I honestly don't know where people come
                      > up with some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait
                      > mode, really?

                      Before you bash rewarded and very experienced photographers think of the
                      following: In a DSLR both shutter curtains don't necessarily travel at
                      the same speed. This is most noticeable at fast shutter speeds, when
                      only a narrow slit moves across the sensor. If stitched in a panorama
                      the brighter side of an image is adjacent to the darker one in the next
                      image. In bright blue sky this is most noticeable.

                      That was what Ayrton was talking about. It is a well known and well
                      documented phenomenon. Hans Nyberg has some example images, but
                      unfortunately I can't find them ATM.

                      If shot in portrait mode this causes vertically repeating lighter and
                      darker zones across the image which can be seen in lots of gigapixel
                      images, f.e. in this one: http://www.gigapan.com/gigapans/117457

                      Consequently this structures would be horizontal if shot in landscape mode.

                      --
                      Erik Krause
                      http://www.erik-krause.de
                    • Bob Masters
                      Gentlemen, I have had a good degree of success with a combination of all your suggestions, as follows: I converted all the RAWS to 16 bit TIFFS then corrected
                      Message 10 of 28 , Aug 9, 2013
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                        Gentlemen,

                        I have had a good degree of success with a combination of all your suggestions, as follows:

                        I converted all the RAWS to 16 bit TIFFS then corrected some of the vignetting, (which I knew caused vertical banding but wasn't sure about the horizontal banding). I then started a new project in PTGui stitching all the images again and outputting a 16bit .psb file.

                        The resulting gigaphoto can be seen here:   http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/new_dh_test.jpg  ..the big Tiff looks much better as it has no compression artifacts, but at least one can see that the horizontal banding has been greatly reduced.

                        In answer to Sacha's question, yes the Tiff did look the same as the Jpeg, although as you say due to compression artifacts the banding was more pronounced in the Jpeg image that I posted.

                        I have posted a couple of PTGui screen grabs here: http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/screen_grabs.jpg  ...showing my settings to create the pan, they are the result of using the 'Optimize now' feature in the Exposure / HDR Tab and my final settings, I have used the Lanczos16 interpolator, ..is this a good choice? Any other observations where I may be going wrong would be appreciated

                        BTW The images were shot on a Canon 5D MkII with a Canon 24-70mm f2.8L lens set at 70mm.

                        Many thanks once again to all of you.

                        Bob







                        On 8 Aug 2013, at 19:00, Fulvio Senore wrote:

                        You should try using the 16 bit files in a new PTGui project.

                        I am not 100% sure but I remember that some years ago I did not pay
                        attention and I converted some raw files to 8 bit tiffs, then I stitched
                        them with PTGui. When I realized that the images where 8 bit I made a
                        new raw conversion creating 16 bit tiff files with the same name, I
                        overwrote the existing files, I opened PTGui and I stitched the panorama
                        again.
                        The resulting file did not increase in size and this was clearly a sign
                        that the output file was still 8 bit.

                        This happened years ago so maybe things have changed, but I suggest that
                        you stich some 16 bit images in a new PTGui project to see if things get
                        better.
                        Using 8 bit images is a good reason to get banding in the sky.

                        Fulvio Senore


                        Il 08/08/2013 17.50, Bob Masters ha scritto:


                        Hi Mark

                        Yup I shot Raws.

                        I did as you suggested and converted the images to 16 bit Tiffs in
                        Photoshop then used the same.pts file as before. Sadly I still have the
                        same banding effect. Do you think it would it help if I sent you the
                        .pts (without images) to look at?

                        Have you ever come across this problem before with clear blue skies?
                        it's not the first time it's happened to me, perhaps I should just shoot
                        on cloudy days in future.

                        Bob




                        On 8 Aug 2013, at 14:13, Mark D. Fink wrote:


                        Hi Bob,

                        Just to be sure, you are shooting in RAW, then converting to 8bit TIFF
                        for stitching? If so, why 8bit instead of 16 bit? My suggestion would
                        be to re-convert these images to 16bit TIFF, stitch again using the
                        same pts file and see if that takes care of the banding.

                        Mark

                        ------------------------------------------------------------------------

                        *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                        <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>
                        [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                        <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters
                        *Sent:* Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:40 AM
                        *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>
                        *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui




                        Hi Mark, Erik & Steve

                        Here is the final stitched image:
                        http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/dh_test.jpg

                        The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in each row, they are all 8bit
                        Tiffs, all shot at the same exposure and aperture.

                        The banding is NOT visible in each individual image, it only becomes
                        apparent in the final stitched image.

                        The banding is not uniform across the whole stitched image, it would
                        appear that each individual photo is producing it's own banding.

                        Erik, I have sent the .pts file to your email address:
                        erik.krause@... <mailto:erik.krause@...>

                        If you guys need to see anything else, i.e individual adjacent sky
                        images please let me know.

                        Regards

                        Bob

                        ---------------------------------------

                        On 7 Aug 2013, at 22:03, Steve Sheridan wrote:



                        Mark Finkis right. If what you’re talking about is large horizontal
                        bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It
                        has nothing to do with your camera, its orientation, mount, or
                        interpolators. Trace it back to the point where you can first see it
                        and that’s where you will find the source of your problem. If you
                        can’t see it in your RAW files or tiff conversions why would you think
                        it’s camera related? If you are using uneven exposures going into
                        PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It’s hard to say without
                        seeing some examples. I honestly don’t know where people come up with
                        some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait
                        mode, really? I’m sure thousands of news, advertising, portrait, and
                        architectural photographers would get a good laugh out of that one.
                        I’ve been shooting with SLRs, rangefinders, twin lens reflex, and view
                        cameras for over forty years and I’ve never heard of it or seen it. If
                        it’s only apparent in panorama related situations then I would assume
                        it has something to do with the panorama creation process. Please show
                        us some samples.

                        Steve Sheridan

                        *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                        <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>
                        [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                        <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters
                        *Sent:* Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:42 PM
                        *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>
                        *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                        Canon 5D Mk II   ..OK I'll send you the .pts too.

                        Thanks Erik

                        On 7 Aug 2013, at 20:21, Erik Krause wrote:




                        Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:


                        The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR

                           Drive.


                        And what camera?



                        Tomorrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so

                           you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the

                           individual images if that helps.


                        That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file
                        (just the .pts)?

                        --
                        Erik Krause
                        http://www.erik-krause.de <http://www.erik-krause.de/>


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                        Bob Masters fotógrafo
                        Email: bob@... 
                        Web:   http://www.bobmastersphotography.com
                        Tel:     +34 93 428 4357

                      • Mark D. Fink
                        MUCH better - congratulations, and great image too! One last question - you mention the Exposure/HDR tab. Did you shoot multiple exposures requiring HDR? If
                        Message 11 of 28 , Aug 9, 2013
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                          MUCH better - congratulations, and great image too! One last question - you mention the Exposure/HDR tab. Did you shoot multiple exposures requiring HDR? If not, then make sure you uncheck "Enable HDR stitching" as it will give you less than optimal results.

                           

                          Mark

                           


                          From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
                          Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 9:42 AM
                          To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                           



                          Gentlemen,

                           

                          I have had a good degree of success with a combination of all your suggestions, as follows:

                           

                          I converted all the RAWS to 16 bit TIFFS then corrected some of the vignetting, (which I knew caused vertical banding but wasn't sure about the horizontal banding). I then started a new project in PTGui stitching all the images again and outputting a 16bit .psb file.

                           

                          The resulting gigaphoto can be seen here:   http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/new_dh_test.jpg  ..the big Tiff looks much better as it has no compression artifacts, but at least one can see that the horizontal banding has been greatly reduced.

                           

                          In answer to Sacha's question, yes the Tiff did look the same as the Jpeg, although as you say due to compression artifacts the banding was more pronounced in the Jpeg image that I posted.

                           

                          I have posted a couple of PTGui screen grabs here: http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/screen_grabs.jpg  ...showing my settings to create the pan, they are the result of using the 'Optimize now' feature in the Exposure / HDR Tab and my final settings, I have used the Lanczos16 interpolator, ..is this a good choice? Any other observations where I may be going wrong would be appreciated

                           

                          BTW The images were shot on a Canon 5D MkII with a Canon 24-70mm f2.8L lens set at 70mm.

                           

                          Many thanks once again to all of you.

                           

                          Bob

                           

                           

                           

                           

                           

                           

                           

                          On 8 Aug 2013, at 19:00, Fulvio Senore wrote:



                          You should try using the 16 bit files in a new PTGui project.

                          I am not 100% sure but I remember that some years ago I did not pay
                          attention and I converted some raw files to 8 bit tiffs, then I stitched
                          them with PTGui. When I realized that the images where 8 bit I made a
                          new raw conversion creating 16 bit tiff files with the same name, I
                          overwrote the existing files, I opened PTGui and I stitched the panorama
                          again.
                          The resulting file did not increase in size and this was clearly a sign
                          that the output file was still 8 bit.

                          This happened years ago so maybe things have changed, but I suggest that
                          you stich some 16 bit images in a new PTGui project to see if things get
                          better.
                          Using 8 bit images is a good reason to get banding in the sky.

                          Fulvio Senore


                          Il 08/08/2013 17.50, Bob Masters ha scritto:

                           

                           

                          Hi Mark

                           

                          Yup I shot Raws.

                           

                          I did as you suggested and converted the images to 16 bit Tiffs in

                          Photoshop then used the same.pts file as before. Sadly I still have the

                          same banding effect. Do you think it would it help if I sent you the

                          .pts (without images) to look at?

                           

                          Have you ever come across this problem before with clear blue skies?

                          it's not the first time it's happened to me, perhaps I should just shoot

                          on cloudy days in future.

                           

                          Bob

                           

                           

                           

                           

                          On 8 Aug 2013, at 14:13, Mark D. Fink wrote:

                           

                           

                          Hi Bob,

                           

                          Just to be sure, you are shooting in RAW, then converting to 8bit TIFF

                          for stitching? If so, why 8bit instead of 16 bit? My suggestion would

                          be to re-convert these images to 16bit TIFF, stitch again using the

                          same pts file and see if that takes care of the banding.

                           

                          Mark

                           

                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------

                           

                          *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                          <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                          [mailto: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                          <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters

                          *Sent:* Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:40 AM

                          *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                          *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                           

                           

                           

                           

                          Hi Mark, Erik & Steve

                           

                          Here is the final stitched image:

                          http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/dh_test.jpg

                           

                          The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in each row, they are all 8bit

                          Tiffs, all shot at the same exposure and aperture.

                           

                          The banding is NOT visible in each individual image, it only becomes

                          apparent in the final stitched image.

                           

                          The banding is not uniform across the whole stitched image, it would

                          appear that each individual photo is producing it's own banding.

                           

                          Erik, I have sent the .pts file to your email address:

                          erik.krause@... <mailto:erik.krause@...>

                           

                          If you guys need to see anything else, i.e individual adjacent sky

                          images please let me know.

                           

                          Regards

                           

                          Bob

                           

                          ---------------------------------------

                           

                          On 7 Aug 2013, at 22:03, Steve Sheridan wrote:

                           

                           

                           

                          Mark Fink is right. If what you’re talking about is large horizontal

                          bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It

                          has nothing to do with your camera, its orientation, mount, or

                          interpolators. Trace it back to the point where you can first see it

                          and that’s where you will find the source of your problem. If you

                          can’t see it in your RAW files or tiff conversions why would you think

                          it’s camera related? If you are using uneven exposures going into

                          PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It’s hard to say without

                          seeing some examples. I honestly don’t know where people come up with

                          some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait

                          mode, really? I’m sure thousands of news, advertising, portrait, and

                          architectural photographers would get a good laugh out of that one.

                          I’ve been shooting with SLRs, rangefinders, twin lens reflex, and view

                          cameras for over forty years and I’ve never heard of it or seen it. If

                          it’s only apparent in panorama related situations then I would assume

                          it has something to do with the panorama creation process. Please show

                          us some samples.

                           

                          Steve Sheridan

                           

                          *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                          <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                          [mailto: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                          <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters

                          *Sent:* Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:42 PM

                          *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                          *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                           

                          Canon 5D Mk II   ..OK I'll send you the .pts too.

                           

                          Thanks Erik

                           

                          On 7 Aug 2013, at 20:21, Erik Krause wrote:

                           

                           

                           

                           

                          Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:

                           

                           

                          The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR

                           

                             Drive.

                           

                           

                          And what camera?

                           

                           

                           

                          Tom orrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so

                           

                             you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the

                           

                             individual images if that helps.

                           

                           

                          That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file

                          (just the .pts)?

                           

                          --

                          Erik Krause

                          http://www.erik-krause.de <http://www.erik-krause.de/>

                           

                           

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                          (Message over 64 KB, truncated)
                        • Bob Masters
                          Thanks Mark, no I didn t shoot multiples exposures and I d left that box unchecked for that reason. I did use the Optimize now feature though because I
                          Message 12 of 28 , Aug 9, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Thanks Mark,  no I didn't shoot multiples exposures and I'd left that box unchecked for that reason. I did use the 'Optimize now' feature though because I thought it would even more of the vignetting/banding problems.

                            Bob





                            On 9 Aug 2013, at 15:47, Mark D. Fink wrote:

                             

                            MUCH better - congratulations, and great image too! One last question - you mention the Exposure/HDR tab. Did you shoot multiple exposures requiring HDR? If not, then make sure you uncheck "Enable HDR stitching" as it will give you less than optimal results.

                             

                            Mark

                             


                            From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
                            Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 9:42 AM
                            To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                             



                            Gentlemen,

                             

                            I have had a good degree of success with a combination of all your suggestions, as follows:

                             

                            I converted all the RAWS to 16 bit TIFFS then corrected some of the vignetting, (which I knew caused vertical banding but wasn't sure about the horizontal banding). I then started a new project in PTGui stitching all the images again and outputting a 16bit .psb file.

                             

                            The resulting gigaphoto can be seen here:   http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/new_dh_test.jpg  ..the big Tiff looks much better as it has no compression artifacts, but at least one can see that the horizontal banding has been greatly reduced.

                             

                            In answer to Sacha's question, yes the Tiff did look the same as the Jpeg, although as you say due to compression artifacts the banding was more pronounced in the Jpeg image that I posted.

                             

                            I have posted a couple of PTGui screen grabs here: http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/screen_grabs.jpg  ...showing my settings to create the pan, they are the result of using the 'Optimize now' feature in the Exposure / HDR Tab and my final settings, I have used the Lanczos16 interpolator, ..is this a good choice? Any other observations where I may be going wrong would be appreciated

                             

                            BTW The images were shot on a Canon 5D MkII with a Canon 24-70mm f2.8L lens set at 70mm.

                             

                            Many thanks once again to all of you.

                             

                            Bob

                             

                             

                             

                             

                             

                             

                             

                            On 8 Aug 2013, at 19:00, Fulvio Senore wrote:



                            You should try using the 16 bit files in a new PTGui project.

                            I am not 100% sure but I remember that some years ago I did not pay
                            attention and I converted some raw files to 8 bit tiffs, then I stitched
                            them with PTGui. When I realized that the images where 8 bit I made a
                            new raw conversion creating 16 bit tiff files with the same name, I
                            overwrote the existing files, I opened PTGui and I stitched the panorama
                            again.
                            The resulting file did not increase in size and this was clearly a sign
                            that the output file was still 8 bit.

                            This happened years ago so maybe things have changed, but I suggest that
                            you stich some 16 bit images in a new PTGui project to see if things get
                            better.
                            Using 8 bit images is a good reason to get banding in the sky.

                            Fulvio Senore


                            Il 08/08/2013 17.50, Bob Masters ha scritto:

                             

                             

                            Hi Mark

                             

                            Yup I shot Raws.

                             

                            I did as you suggested and converted the images to 16 bit Tiffs in

                            Photoshop then used the same.pts file as before. Sadly I still have the

                            same banding effect. Do you think it would it help if I sent you the

                            .pts (without images) to look at?

                             

                            Have you ever come across this problem before with clear blue skies?

                            it's not the first time it's happened to me, perhaps I should just shoot

                            on cloudy days in future.

                             

                            Bob

                             

                             

                             

                             

                            On 8 Aug 2013, at 14:13, Mark D. Fink wrote:

                             

                             

                            Hi Bob,

                             

                            Just to be sure, you are shooting in RAW, then converting to 8bit TIFF

                            for stitching? If so, why 8bit instead of 16 bit? My suggestion would

                            be to re-convert these images to 16bit TIFF, stitch again using the

                            same pts file and see if that takes care of the banding.

                             

                            Mark

                             

                            ------------------------------------------------------------------------

                             

                            *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                            <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                            [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                            <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters

                            *Sent:* Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:40 AM

                            *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                            *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                             

                             

                             

                             

                            Hi Mark, Erik & Steve

                             

                            Here is the final stitched image:

                            http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/dh_test.jpg

                             

                            The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in each row, they are all 8bit

                            Tiffs, all shot at the same exposure and aperture.

                             

                            The banding is NOT visible in each individual image, it only becomes

                            apparent in the final stitched image.

                             

                            The banding is not uniform across the whole stitched image, it would

                            appear that each individual photo is producing it's own banding.

                             

                            Erik, I have sent the .pts file to your email address:

                            erik.krause@... <mailto:erik.krause@...>

                             

                            If you guys need to see anything else, i.e individual adjacent sky

                            images please let me know.

                             

                            Regards

                             

                            Bob

                             

                            ---------------------------------------

                             

                            On 7 Aug 2013, at 22:03, Steve Sheridan wrote:

                             

                             

                             

                            Mark Fink is right. If what you’re talking about is large horizontal

                            bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It

                            has nothing to do with your camera, its orientation, mount, or

                            interpolators. Trace it back to the point where you can first see it

                            and that’s where you will find the source of your problem. If you

                            can’t see it in your RAW files or tiff conversions why would you think

                            it’s camera related? If you are using uneven exposures going into

                            PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It’s hard to say without

                            seeing some examples. I honestly don’t know where people come up with

                            some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait

                            mode, really? I’m sure thousands of news, advertising, portrait, and

                            architectural photographers would get a good laugh out of that one.

                            I’ve been shooting with SLRs, rangefinders, twin lens reflex, and view

                            cameras for over forty years and I’ve never heard of it or seen it. If

                            it’s only apparent in panorama related situations then I would assume

                            it has something to do with the panorama creation process. Please show

                            us some samples.

                             

                            Steve Sheridan

                             

                            *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                            <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                            [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                            <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters

                            *Sent:* Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:42 PM

                            *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                            *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                             

                            Canon 5D Mk II   ..OK I'll send you the .pts too.

                             

                            Thanks Erik

                             

                            On 7 Aug 2013, at 20:21, Erik Krause wrote:

                             

                             

                             

                             

                            Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:

                             

                             

                            The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR

                             

                               Drive.

                             

                             

                            And what camera?

                             

                             

                             

                            Tom orrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so

                             

                               you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the

                             

                               individual images if that helps.

                             

                             

                            That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file

                            (just the .pts)?

                             

                            --

                            Erik Krause

                            http://www.erik-krause.de <http://www.erik-krause.de/>

                             

                             

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                            Bob Masters fotógrafo
                            Email: bob@... 
                            Web:   http://www.bobmastersphotography.com

                            Tel:     +34 93 428 4357

                             




                            Bob Masters fotógrafo
                            Email: bob@... 
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                          • Steve Sheridan
                            Nice work Bob! It looks like your hard work and troubleshooting paid off. Thank you for sharing the results and the screen grabs too. Steve From:
                            Message 13 of 28 , Aug 9, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment

                              Nice work Bob! It looks like your hard work and troubleshooting paid off. Thank you for sharing the results and the screen grabs too.

                              Steve

                               

                              From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
                              Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 8:42 AM
                              To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                               

                               

                              Gentlemen,

                               

                              I have had a good degree of success with a combination of all your suggestions, as follows:

                               

                              I converted all the RAWS to 16 bit TIFFS then corrected some of the vignetting, (which I knew caused vertical banding but wasn't sure about the horizontal banding). I then started a new project in PTGui stitching all the images again and outputting a 16bit .psb file.

                               

                              The resulting gigaphoto can be seen here:   http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/new_dh_test.jpg  ..the big Tiff looks much better as it has no compression artifacts, but at least one can see that the horizontal banding has been greatly reduced.

                               

                              In answer to Sacha's question, yes the Tiff did look the same as the Jpeg, although as you say due to compression artifacts the banding was more pronounced in the Jpeg image that I posted.

                               

                              I have posted a couple of PTGui screen grabs here: http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/screen_grabs.jpg  ...showing my settings to create the pan, they are the result of using the 'Optimize now' feature in the Exposure / HDR Tab and my final settings, I have used the Lanczos16 interpolator, ..is this a good choice? Any other observations where I may be going wrong would be appreciated

                               

                              BTW The images were shot on a Canon 5D MkII with a Canon 24-70mm f2.8L lens set at 70mm.

                               

                              Many thanks once again to all of you.

                               

                              Bob

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                              On 8 Aug 2013, at 19:00, Fulvio Senore wrote:



                              You should try using the 16 bit files in a new PTGui project.

                              I am not 100% sure but I remember that some years ago I did not pay
                              attention and I converted some raw files to 8 bit tiffs, then I stitched
                              them with PTGui. When I realized that the images where 8 bit I made a
                              new raw conversion creating 16 bit tiff files with the same name, I
                              overwrote the existing files, I opened PTGui and I stitched the panorama
                              again.
                              The resulting file did not increase in size and this was clearly a sign
                              that the output file was still 8 bit.

                              This happened years ago so maybe things have changed, but I suggest that
                              you stich some 16 bit images in a new PTGui project to see if things get
                              better.
                              Using 8 bit images is a good reason to get banding in the sky.

                              Fulvio Senore


                              Il 08/08/2013 17.50, Bob Masters ha scritto:

                               

                               

                              Hi Mark

                               

                              Yup I shot Raws.

                               

                              I did as you suggested and converted the images to 16 bit Tiffs in

                              Photoshop then used the same.pts file as before. Sadly I still have the

                              same banding effect. Do you think it would it help if I sent you the

                              .pts (without images) to look at?

                               

                              Have you ever come across this problem before with clear blue skies?

                              it's not the first time it's happened to me, perhaps I should just shoot

                              on cloudy days in future.

                               

                              Bob

                               

                               

                               

                               

                              On 8 Aug 2013, at 14:13, Mark D. Fink wrote:

                               

                               

                              Hi Bob,

                               

                              Just to be sure, you are shooting in RAW, then converting to 8bit TIFF

                              for stitching? If so, why 8bit instead of 16 bit? My suggestion would

                              be to re-convert these images to 16bit TIFF, stitch again using the

                              same pts file and see if that takes care of the banding.

                               

                              Mark

                               

                              ------------------------------------------------------------------------

                               

                              *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                              <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                              [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                              <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters

                              *Sent:* Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:40 AM

                              *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                              *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                               

                               

                               

                               

                              Hi Mark, Erik & Steve

                               

                              Here is the final stitched image:

                              http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/dh_test.jpg

                               

                              The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in each row, they are all 8bit

                              Tiffs, all shot at the same exposure and aperture.

                               

                              The banding is NOT visible in each individual image, it only becomes

                              apparent in the final stitched image.

                               

                              The banding is not uniform across the whole stitched image, it would

                              appear that each individual photo is producing it's own banding.

                               

                              Erik, I have sent the .pts file to your email address:

                              erik.krause@... <mailto:erik.krause@...>

                               

                              If you guys need to see anything else, i.e individual adjacent sky

                              images please let me know.

                               

                              Regards

                               

                              Bob

                               

                              ---------------------------------------

                               

                              On 7 Aug 2013, at 22:03, Steve Sheridan wrote:

                               

                               

                               

                              Mark Finkis right. If what you’re talking about is large horizontal

                              bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It

                              has nothing to do with your camera, its orientation, mount, or

                              interpolators. Trace it back to the point where you can first see it

                              and that’s where you will find the source of your problem. If you

                              can’t see it in your RAW files or tiff conversions why would you think

                              it’s camera related? If you are using uneven exposures going into

                              PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It’s hard to say without

                              seeing some examples. I honestly don’t know where people come up with

                              some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait

                              mode, really? I’m sure thousands of news, advertising, portrait, and

                              architectural photographers would get a good laugh out of that one.

                              I’ve been shooting with SLRs, rangefinders, twin lens reflex, and view

                              cameras for over forty years and I’ve never heard of it or seen it. If

                              it’s only apparent in panorama related situations then I would assume

                              it has something to do with the panorama creation process. Please show

                              us some samples.

                               

                              Steve Sheridan

                               

                              *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                              <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                              [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                              <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters

                              *Sent:* Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:42 PM

                              *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                              *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                               

                              Canon 5D Mk II   ..OK I'll send you the .pts too.

                               

                              Thanks Erik

                               

                              On 7 Aug 2013, at 20:21, Erik Krause wrote:

                               

                               

                               

                               

                              Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:

                               

                               

                              The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR

                               

                                 Drive.

                               

                               

                              And what camera?

                               

                               

                               

                              Tomorrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so

                               

                                 you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the

                               

                                 individual images if that helps.

                               

                               

                              That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file

                              (just the .pts)?

                               

                              --

                              Erik Krause

                              http://www.erik-krause.de <http://www.erik-krause.de/>

                               

                               

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                            • David
                              There are many reasons to get artifacts in clear blue skies that I have run into. I think they have all been mentioned in this thread, though I was not aware
                              Message 14 of 28 , Aug 9, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                There are many reasons to get artifacts in clear blue skies that I have run into. I think they have all been mentioned in this thread, though I was not aware of the shutter current one.

                                I would think an appropriately intelligent person (not me) could write a special sky fixing filter that samples the sky and restores the smooth gradient and thereby fix all kinds of jpg, 8bit, shutter curtain sky banding/etc. This would be an awesome feature to go along with OnOne's masking tool. Any volunteers?

                                There is still a problem with common sharing sites such as 360cities where you will get sky banding regardless of whether you had it in your originals or not. I assume due to compression they use on their site. It would be great if they could improve their sky compression quality.

                                David B

                                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Erik Krause <erik.krause@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Am 07.08.2013 22:03, schrieb Steve Sheridan:
                                > > If you are using uneven
                                > > exposures going into PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It's hard
                                > > to say without seeing some examples. I honestly don't know where people come
                                > > up with some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait
                                > > mode, really?
                                >
                                > Before you bash rewarded and very experienced photographers think of the
                                > following: In a DSLR both shutter curtains don't necessarily travel at
                                > the same speed. This is most noticeable at fast shutter speeds, when
                                > only a narrow slit moves across the sensor. If stitched in a panorama
                                > the brighter side of an image is adjacent to the darker one in the next
                                > image. In bright blue sky this is most noticeable.
                                >
                                > That was what Ayrton was talking about. It is a well known and well
                                > documented phenomenon. Hans Nyberg has some example images, but
                                > unfortunately I can't find them ATM.
                                >
                                > If shot in portrait mode this causes vertically repeating lighter and
                                > darker zones across the image which can be seen in lots of gigapixel
                                > images, f.e. in this one: http://www.gigapan.com/gigapans/117457
                                >
                                > Consequently this structures would be horizontal if shot in landscape mode.
                                >
                                > --
                                > Erik Krause
                                > http://www.erik-krause.de
                                >
                              • Sacha Griffin
                                You should correct all your vignetting in raw format. I donÆt think that lens/focal length combination will give you enough vignetting that it canÆt be
                                Message 15 of 28 , Aug 9, 2013
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                                  You should correct all your vignetting in raw format. I don’t think that lens/focal length combination will give you enough vignetting that it can’t be completely correcting in adobe raw convertor.

                                   

                                  The original chromatic banding does look like a combination of 8 bit image editing combined with a medium level jpg compression. Do all your editing in 16 bit always. Also the file path “lightbox” may indicate it’s been processed by your web server ie recompressed. If you’ve just gone from 16bit tiff, to JPG level 10 and nothing else. Then your new image still doesn’t look right. It looks like jpg level 6. For normal web delivery, this is just fine. It’s really unavoidable and there are more important things to worry about. For image archival/printing, you don’t want that of course.

                                   

                                  Best Regards,

                                   

                                  Sacha Griffin

                                  Southern Digital Solutions LLC  - Atlanta, Georgia

                                  http://www.seeit360.com

                                  http://twitter.com/SeeIt360

                                  http://www.facebook.com/SeeIt360

                                  IM: sachagriffin007@...

                                  Office: 404-551-4275

                                   

                                   

                                  From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
                                  Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 9:42 AM
                                  To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                                   

                                   

                                  Gentlemen,

                                   

                                  I have had a good degree of success with a combination of all your suggestions, as follows:

                                   

                                  I converted all the RAWS to 16 bit TIFFS then corrected some of the vignetting, (which I knew caused vertical banding but wasn't sure about the horizontal banding). I then started a new project in PTGui stitching all the images again and outputting a 16bit .psb file.

                                   

                                  The resulting gigaphoto can be seen here:   http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/new_dh_test.jpg  ..the big Tiff looks much better as it has no compression artifacts, but at least one can see that the horizontal banding has been greatly reduced.

                                   

                                  In answer to Sacha's question, yes the Tiff did look the same as the Jpeg, although as you say due to compression artifacts the banding was more pronounced in the Jpeg image that I posted.

                                   

                                  I have posted a couple of PTGui screen grabs here: http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/screen_grabs.jpg  ...showing my settings to create the pan, they are the result of using the 'Optimize now' feature in the Exposure / HDR Tab and my final settings, I have used the Lanczos16 interpolator, ..is this a good choice? Any other observations where I may be going wrong would be appreciated

                                   

                                  BTW The images were shot on a Canon 5D MkII with a Canon 24-70mm f2.8L lens set at 70mm.

                                   

                                  Many thanks once again to all of you.

                                   

                                  Bob

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  On 8 Aug 2013, at 19:00, Fulvio Senore wrote:



                                  You should try using the 16 bit files in a new PTGui project.

                                  I am not 100% sure but I remember that some years ago I did not pay
                                  attention and I converted some raw files to 8 bit tiffs, then I stitched
                                  them with PTGui. When I realized that the images where 8 bit I made a
                                  new raw conversion creating 16 bit tiff files with the same name, I
                                  overwrote the existing files, I opened PTGui and I stitched the panorama
                                  again.
                                  The resulting file did not increase in size and this was clearly a sign
                                  that the output file was still 8 bit.

                                  This happened years ago so maybe things have changed, but I suggest that
                                  you stich some 16 bit images in a new PTGui project to see if things get
                                  better.
                                  Using 8 bit images is a good reason to get banding in the sky.

                                  Fulvio Senore


                                  Il 08/08/2013 17.50, Bob Masters ha scritto:

                                   

                                   

                                  Hi Mark

                                   

                                  Yup I shot Raws.

                                   

                                  I did as you suggested and converted the images to 16 bit Tiffs in

                                  Photoshop then used the same.pts file as before. Sadly I still have the

                                  same banding effect. Do you think it would it help if I sent you the

                                  .pts (without images) to look at?

                                   

                                  Have you ever come across this problem before with clear blue skies?

                                  it's not the first time it's happened to me, perhaps I should just shoot

                                  on cloudy days in future.

                                   

                                  Bob

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  On 8 Aug 2013, at 14:13, Mark D. Fink wrote:

                                   

                                   

                                  Hi Bob,

                                   

                                  Just to be sure, you are shooting in RAW, then converting to 8bit TIFF

                                  for stitching? If so, why 8bit instead of 16 bit? My suggestion would

                                  be to re-convert these images to 16bit TIFF, stitch again using the

                                  same pts file and see if that takes care of the banding.

                                   

                                  Mark

                                   

                                  ------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                   

                                  *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                                  <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                                  [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                                  <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters

                                  *Sent:* Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:40 AM

                                  *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                                  *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  Hi Mark, Erik & Steve

                                   

                                  Here is the final stitched image:

                                  http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/dh_test.jpg

                                   

                                  The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in each row, they are all 8bit

                                  Tiffs, all shot at the same exposure and aperture.

                                   

                                  The banding is NOT visible in each individual image, it only becomes

                                  apparent in the final stitched image.

                                   

                                  The banding is not uniform across the whole stitched image, it would

                                  appear that each individual photo is producing it's own banding.

                                   

                                  Erik, I have sent the .pts file to your email address:

                                  erik.krause@... <mailto:erik.krause@...>

                                   

                                  If you guys need to see anything else, i.e individual adjacent sky

                                  images please let me know.

                                   

                                  Regards

                                   

                                  Bob

                                   

                                  ---------------------------------------

                                   

                                  On 7 Aug 2013, at 22:03, Steve Sheridan wrote:

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  Mark Finkis right. If what you’re talking about is large horizontal

                                  bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It

                                  has nothing to do with your camera, its orientation, mount, or

                                  interpolators. Trace it back to the point where you can first see it

                                  and that’s where you will find the source of your problem. If you

                                  can’t see it in your RAW files or tiff conversions why would you think

                                  it’s camera related? If you are using uneven exposures going into

                                  PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It’s hard to say without

                                  seeing some examples. I honestly don’t know where people come up with

                                  some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait

                                  mode, really? I’m sure thousands of news, advertising, portrait, and

                                  architectural photographers would get a good laugh out of that one.

                                  I’ve been shooting with SLRs, rangefinders, twin lens reflex, and view

                                  cameras for over forty years and I’ve never heard of it or seen it. If

                                  it’s only apparent in panorama related situations then I would assume

                                  it has something to do with the panorama creation process. Please show

                                  us some samples.

                                   

                                  Steve Sheridan

                                   

                                  *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                                  <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                                  [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                                  <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters

                                  *Sent:* Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:42 PM

                                  *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                                  *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                                   

                                  Canon 5D Mk II   ..OK I'll send you the .pts too.

                                   

                                  Thanks Erik

                                   

                                  On 7 Aug 2013, at 20:21, Erik Krause wrote:

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:

                                   

                                   

                                  The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR

                                   

                                     Drive.

                                   

                                   

                                  And what camera?

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  Tomorrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so

                                   

                                     you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the

                                   

                                     individual images if that helps.

                                   

                                   

                                  That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file

                                  (just the .pts)?

                                   

                                  --

                                  Erik Krause

                                  http://www.erik-krause.de <http://www.erik-krause.de/>

                                   

                                   

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                                • Erik Krause
                                  ... If you want to avoid compression banding you can add some noise to sky only (or leave it there - Aggressive de-noising isn t recommended anyway). -- Erik
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Aug 9, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Am 09.08.2013 20:00, schrieb David:
                                    > There is still a problem with common sharing sites such as 360cities
                                    > where you will get sky banding regardless of whether you had it in
                                    > your originals or not. I assume due to compression they use on their
                                    > site. It would be great if they could improve their sky compression
                                    > quality.

                                    If you want to avoid compression banding you can add some noise to sky
                                    only (or leave it there - Aggressive de-noising isn't recommended anyway).

                                    --
                                    Erik Krause
                                    http://www.erik-krause.de
                                  • David
                                    I ve tried adding noise but so far not been real pleased with the results. I don t really like noise, or banding. David B
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Aug 10, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I've tried adding noise but so far not been real pleased with the results. I don't really like noise, or banding.

                                      David B


                                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Erik Krause <erik.krause@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Am 09.08.2013 20:00, schrieb David:
                                      > > There is still a problem with common sharing sites such as 360cities
                                      > > where you will get sky banding regardless of whether you had it in
                                      > > your originals or not. I assume due to compression they use on their
                                      > > site. It would be great if they could improve their sky compression
                                      > > quality.
                                      >
                                      > If you want to avoid compression banding you can add some noise to sky
                                      > only (or leave it there - Aggressive de-noising isn't recommended anyway).
                                      >
                                      > --
                                      > Erik Krause
                                      > http://www.erik-krause.de
                                      >
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