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Re: [PanoToolsNG] Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

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  • Robert Masters
    Thanks Ayrton I ll wait and see what Hans says then, hopefully he ll see my post or I ll contact him directly. I take it Erik is also on the list and might be
    Message 1 of 28 , Aug 7, 2013
      Thanks Ayrton

      I'll wait and see what Hans says then, hopefully he'll see my post or I'll contact him directly. I take it Erik is also on the list and might be able to help me, ..hopefully :-))


      Bob


      On 7 Aug 2013, at 17:05, AYRTON wrote:

       

      Robert


      hans Nyberg is on the list
      Yes, he found a solution
      and he has the explanation to this
      Erik Krause too, knows exactly what the problem is
      but it has to do with the way cameras are constructed

      I even showed this, in person, to the Nikon Director in Brazil and USA, but there's nothing they can do about it
      And it doesn't matter if it's Nikon, or Canon, or XPTO

      Best
      A



      On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:44 AM, Robert Masters <bob@...> wrote:


      Hi Ayrton

      Thanks for that. 

      Is Hans on this list or should I contact him directly? ..or maybe he has the solution posted somewhere?
      Did you ever get around the problem?

      Best

      Bob

      Incidentally, we met a couple of years back at the IVRPA gig in Palmela.




      On 7 Aug 2013, at 16:33, AYRTON wrote:

       

      Robert


      the problem is NOT with ptgui
      The problem is with your camera shooting in vertical position

      Hans Nyberg can explain it better to you.

      He found this problem a long time ago with some of my firsts gigapixels

      Cheers
      A



      "It's not WHAT you shoot. It's the WAY you shoot it."


      On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Robert Masters <bob@...> wrote:


      Hello everybody, 

      My name is Bob Masters, I'm new to the group and I'm a professional photographer in Barcelona.

      I have been having a problem with PTGui when stitching a gigapixel photo (about 160º - 180º FOV). The problem occurs or can be seen when I stitch a pano with clear blue sky, there is a lot of horizontal banding in the sky, I know that vignetting in each image can cause vertical banding between images, but horizontal banding??

      I have tried using different Interpolators (Default, Bicubic softer and Lanczos16), in 8bit and 16bit and also the 'Optimize now' feature in Exposure / HDR. I just can't figure it out and since we get a lot of blue skies here in Spain I'm in a bit of a pickle.

      Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

      Regards

      Bob Masters










      Bob Masters fotógrafo
      Email: bob@... 
      Web:   http://www.bobmastersphotography.com
      Tel:     +34 93 428 4357






      Bob Masters fotógrafo
      Email: bob@... 
      Web:   http://www.bobmastersphotography.com
      Tel:     +34 93 428 4357

    • Erik Krause
      ... I think Ayrton refers to the uneven shutter movement. This could indeed be the problem if the camera was used in landscape orientation. If it s used in
      Message 2 of 28 , Aug 7, 2013
        Am 07.08.2013 17:05, schrieb AYRTON:
        > Erik Krause too, knows exactly what the problem is
        > but it has to do with the way cameras are constructed

        I think Ayrton refers to the uneven shutter movement. This could indeed
        be the problem if the camera was used in landscape orientation. If it's
        used in portrait orientation it's unlikely, since it would imply that
        the shutter travels along the long side. This was the case for some
        ancient cameras which had a textile shutter.

        Robert, can you provide two or three vertically adjacent sky images for
        download somewhere? Jpeg would do. Also can you state how wide the
        banding is?

        --
        Erik Krause
        http://www.erik-krause.de
      • Robert Masters
        Hi Erik Thanks for answering :-) The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR Drive. Tomorrow I ll send you a link with the finished
        Message 3 of 28 , Aug 7, 2013
          Hi Erik

          Thanks for answering :-)

          The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR Drive.

          Tomorrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the individual images if that helps.

          Thanks again


          Bob





          On 7 Aug 2013, at 19:58, Erik Krause wrote:

           

          Am 07.08.2013 17:05, schrieb AYRTON:
          > Erik Krause too, knows exactly what the problem is
          > but it has to do with the way cameras are constructed

          I think Ayrton refers to the uneven shutter movement. This could indeed
          be the problem if the camera was used in landscape orientation. If it's
          used in portrait orientation it's unlikely, since it would imply that
          the shutter travels along the long side. This was the case for some
          ancient cameras which had a textile shutter.

          Robert, can you provide two or three vertically adjacent sky images for
          download somewhere? Jpeg would do. Also can you state how wide the
          banding is?

          --
          Erik Krause
          http://www.erik-krause.de


          Bob Masters fotógrafo
          Email: bob@... 
          Web:   http://www.bobmastersphotography.com
          Tel:     +34 93 428 4357

        • Erik Krause
          ... And what camera? ... That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file (just the .pts)? -- Erik Krause http://www.erik-krause.de
          Message 4 of 28 , Aug 7, 2013
            Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:
            > The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR
            > Drive.

            And what camera?

            > Tomorrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so
            > you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the
            > individual images if that helps.

            That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file
            (just the .pts)?

            --
            Erik Krause
            http://www.erik-krause.de
          • Bob Masters
            Canon 5D Mk II ..OK I ll send you the .pts too. Thanks Erik
            Message 5 of 28 , Aug 7, 2013
              Canon 5D Mk II   ..OK I'll send you the .pts too. 

              Thanks Erik



              On 7 Aug 2013, at 20:21, Erik Krause wrote:

              Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:
              The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR
              Drive.

              And what camera?

              Tomorrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so
              you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the
              individual images if that helps.

              That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file
              (just the .pts)?

              --
              Erik Krause
              http://www.erik-krause.de


              ------------------------------------

              --
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            • Steve Sheridan
              Mark Fink is right. If what you re talking about is large horizontal bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It has nothing to do
              Message 6 of 28 , Aug 7, 2013

                Mark Fink is right. If what you’re talking about is large horizontal bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It has nothing to do with your camera, its orientation, mount, or interpolators. Trace it back to the point where you can first see it and that’s where you will find the source of your problem. If you can’t see it in your RAW files or tiff conversions why would you think it’s camera related? If you are using uneven exposures going into PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It’s hard to say without seeing some examples. I honestly don’t know where people come up with some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait mode, really? I’m sure thousands of news, advertising, portrait, and architectural photographers would get a good laugh out of that one. I’ve been shooting with SLRs, rangefinders, twin lens reflex, and view cameras for over forty years and I’ve never heard of it or seen it. If it’s only apparent in panorama related situations then I would assume it has something to do with the panorama creation process. Please show us some samples.

                 

                Steve Sheridan

                From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
                Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:42 PM
                To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                 

                 

                Canon 5D Mk II   ..OK I'll send you the .pts too. 

                 

                Thanks Erik

                 

                 

                 

                On 7 Aug 2013, at 20:21, Erik Krause wrote:



                Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:

                The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR

                Drive.


                And what camera?


                Tomorrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so

                you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the

                individual images if that helps.


                That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file
                (just the .pts)?

                --
                Erik Krause
                http://www.erik-krause.de


                ------------------------------------

                --
                <*> Wiki: http://wiki.panotools.org
                <*> User Guidelines: http://wiki.panotools.org/User_Guidelines
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              • Bob Masters
                Hi Mark, Erik & Steve Here is the final stitched image: http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/dh_test.jpg The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in
                Message 7 of 28 , Aug 8, 2013
                  Hi Mark, Erik & Steve



                  The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in each row, they are all 8bit Tiffs, all shot at the same exposure and aperture.

                  The banding is NOT visible in each individual image, it only becomes apparent in the final stitched image.

                  The banding is not uniform across the whole stitched image, it would appear that each individual photo is producing it's own banding.

                  Erik, I have sent the .pts file to your email address: erik.krause@...

                  If you guys need to see anything else, i.e individual adjacent 
                  sky images please let me know.

                  Regards

                  Bob


                                                              ---------------------------------------



                  On 7 Aug 2013, at 22:03, Steve Sheridan wrote:

                   

                  Mark Fink is right. If what you’re talking about is large horizontal bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It has nothing to do with your camera, its orientation, mount, or interpolators. Trace it back to the point where you can first see it and that’s where you will find the source of your problem. If you can’t see it in your RAW files or tiff conversions why would you think it’s camera related? If you are using uneven exposures going into PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It’s hard to say without seeing some examples. I honestly don’t know where people come up with some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait mode, really? I’m sure thousands of news, advertising, portrait, and architectural photographers would get a good laugh out of that one. I’ve been shooting with SLRs, rangefinders, twin lens reflex, and view cameras for over forty years and I’ve never heard of it or seen it. If it’s only apparent in panorama related situations then I would assume it has something to do with the panorama creation process. Please show us some samples.

                   

                  Steve Sheridan

                  From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
                  Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:42 PM
                  To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                   

                   

                  Canon 5D Mk II   ..OK I'll send you the .pts too. 

                   

                  Thanks Erik

                   

                   

                   

                  On 7 Aug 2013, at 20:21, Erik Krause wrote:



                  Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:

                  The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR

                  Drive.


                  And what camera?


                  Tomorrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so

                  you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the

                  individual images if that helps.


                  That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file
                  (just the .pts)?

                  --
                  Erik Krause
                  http://www.erik-krause.de


                  ------------------------------------

                  --
                  <*> Wiki: http://wiki.panotools.org
                  <*> User Guidelines: http://wiki.panotools.org/User_Guidelines
                  <*> Nabble (Web) http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/
                  <*> NG Member Map http://www.panomaps.com/ng
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                  Yahoo! Groups Links

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                  Bob Masters fotógrafo
                  Email: bob@... 
                  Web:   http://www.bobmastersphotography.com
                  Tel:     +34 93 428 4357

                • Mark D. Fink
                  Hi Bob, Just to be sure, you are shooting in RAW, then converting to 8bit TIFF for stitching? If so, why 8bit instead of 16 bit? My suggestion would be to
                  Message 8 of 28 , Aug 8, 2013

                    Hi Bob,

                     

                    Just to be sure, you are shooting in RAW, then converting to 8bit TIFF for stitching? If so, why 8bit instead of 16 bit? My suggestion would be to re-convert these images to 16bit TIFF, stitch again using the same pts file and see if that takes care of the banding.

                     

                    Mark

                     


                    From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
                    Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:40 AM
                    To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                     




                    Hi Mark, Erik & Steve

                     

                     

                     

                    The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in each row, they are all 8bit Tiffs, all shot at the same exposure and aperture.

                     

                    The banding is NOT visible in each individual image, it only becomes apparent in the final stitched image.

                     

                    The banding is not uniform across the whole stitched image, it would appear that each individual photo is producing it's own banding.

                     

                    Erik, I have sent the .pts file to your email address: erik.krause@...

                     

                    If you guys need to see anything else, i.e individual adjacent sky images please let me know.

                     

                    Regards

                     

                    Bob

                     

                     

                                                                ---------------------------------------

                     

                     

                     

                    On 7 Aug 2013, at 22:03, Steve Sheridan wrote:



                     

                     

                    Mark Fink is right. If what you’re talking about is large horizontal bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It has nothing to do with your camera, its orientation, mount, or interpolators. Trace it back to the point where you can first see it and that’s where you will find the source of your problem. If you can’t see it in your RAW files or tiff conversions why would you think it’s camera related? If you are using uneven exposures going into PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It’s hard to say without seeing some examples. I honestly don’t know where people come up with some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait mode, really? I’m sure thousands of news, advertising, portrait, and architectural photographers would get a good laugh out of that one. I’ve been shooting with SLRs, rangefinders, twin lens reflex, and view cameras for over forty years and I’ve never heard of it or seen it. If it’s only apparent in panorama related situations then I would assume it has something to do with the panorama creation process. Please show us some samples.

                     

                    Steve Sheridan

                    From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
                    Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:42 PM
                    To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                     

                     

                    Canon 5D Mk II   ..OK I'll send you the .pts too. 

                     

                    Thanks Erik

                     

                     

                     

                    On 7 Aug 2013, at 20:21, Erik Krause wrote:




                    Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:


                    The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR

                    Drive.


                    And what camera?



                    Tom orrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so

                    you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the

                    individual images if that helps.


                    That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file
                    (just the .pts)?

                    --
                    Erik Krause
                    http://www.erik-krause.de


                    ------------------------------------

                    --
                    <*> Wiki: http://wiki.panotools.org
                    <*> User Guidelines: http://wiki.panotools.org/User_Guidelines
                    <*> Nabble (Web) http://panotoolsng.586017.n4.nabble.com/
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                    Bob Masters fotógrafo
                    Email: bob@... 
                    Web:   http://www.bobmastersphotography.com

                    Tel:     +34 93 428 4357

                     


                  • Bob Masters
                    Hi Mark Yup I shot Raws. I did as you suggested and converted the images to 16 bit Tiffs in Photoshop then used the same.pts file as before. Sadly I still have
                    Message 9 of 28 , Aug 8, 2013
                      Hi Mark

                      Yup I shot Raws.

                      I did as you suggested and converted the images to 16 bit Tiffs in Photoshop then used the same.pts file as before. Sadly I still have the same banding effect. Do you think it would it help if I sent you the .pts (without images) to look at? 

                      Have you ever come across this problem before with clear blue skies? it's not the first time it's happened to me, perhaps I should just shoot on cloudy days in future.

                      Bob




                      On 8 Aug 2013, at 14:13, Mark D. Fink wrote:

                       

                      Hi Bob,

                       

                      Just to be sure, you are shooting in RAW, then converting to 8bit TIFF for stitching? If so, why 8bit instead of 16 bit? My suggestion would be to re-convert these images to 16bit TIFF, stitch again using the same pts file and see if that takes care of the banding.

                       

                      Mark

                       


                      From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
                      Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:40 AM
                      To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                       




                      Hi Mark, Erik & Steve

                       

                       

                       

                      The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in each row, they are all 8bit Tiffs, all shot at the same exposure and aperture.

                       

                      The banding is NOT visible in each individual image, it only becomes apparent in the final stitched image.

                       

                      The banding is not uniform across the whole stitched image, it would appear that each individual photo is producing it's own banding.

                       

                      Erik, I have sent the .pts file to your email address: erik.krause@...

                       

                      If you guys need to see anything else, i.e individual adjacent sky images please let me know.

                       

                      Regards

                       

                      Bob

                       

                       

                                                                  ---------------------------------------

                       

                       

                       

                      On 7 Aug 2013, at 22:03, Steve Sheridan wrote:



                       

                       

                      Mark Fink is right. If what you’re talking about is large horizontal bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It has nothing to do with your camera, its orientation, mount, or interpolators. Trace it back to the point where you can first see it and that’s where you will find the source of your problem. If you can’t see it in your RAW files or tiff conversions why would you think it’s camera related? If you are using uneven exposures going into PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It’s hard to say without seeing some examples. I honestly don’t know where people come up with some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait mode, really? I’m sure thousands of news, advertising, portrait, and architectural photographers would get a good laugh out of that one. I’ve been shooting with SLRs, rangefinders, twin lens reflex, and view cameras for over forty years and I’ve never heard of it or seen it. If it’s only apparent in panorama related situations then I would assume it has something to do with the panorama creation process. Please show us some samples.

                       

                      Steve Sheridan

                      From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
                      Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:42 PM
                      To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                       

                       

                      Canon 5D Mk II   ..OK I'll send you the .pts too. 

                       

                      Thanks Erik

                       

                       

                       

                      On 7 Aug 2013, at 20:21, Erik Krause wrote:




                      Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:


                      The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR

                      Drive.


                      And what camera?



                      Tom orrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so

                      you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the

                      individual images if that helps.


                      That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file
                      (just the .pts)?

                      --
                      Erik Krause
                      http://www.erik-krause.de


                      ------------------------------------

                      --
                      <*> Wiki: http://wiki.panotools.org
                      <*> User Guidelines: http://wiki.panotools.org/User_Guidelines
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                    • Fulvio Senore
                      You should try using the 16 bit files in a new PTGui project. I am not 100% sure but I remember that some years ago I did not pay attention and I converted
                      Message 10 of 28 , Aug 8, 2013
                        You should try using the 16 bit files in a new PTGui project.

                        I am not 100% sure but I remember that some years ago I did not pay
                        attention and I converted some raw files to 8 bit tiffs, then I stitched
                        them with PTGui. When I realized that the images where 8 bit I made a
                        new raw conversion creating 16 bit tiff files with the same name, I
                        overwrote the existing files, I opened PTGui and I stitched the panorama
                        again.
                        The resulting file did not increase in size and this was clearly a sign
                        that the output file was still 8 bit.

                        This happened years ago so maybe things have changed, but I suggest that
                        you stich some 16 bit images in a new PTGui project to see if things get
                        better.
                        Using 8 bit images is a good reason to get banding in the sky.

                        Fulvio Senore


                        Il 08/08/2013 17.50, Bob Masters ha scritto:
                        >
                        >
                        > Hi Mark
                        >
                        > Yup I shot Raws.
                        >
                        > I did as you suggested and converted the images to 16 bit Tiffs in
                        > Photoshop then used the same.pts file as before. Sadly I still have the
                        > same banding effect. Do you think it would it help if I sent you the
                        > .pts (without images) to look at?
                        >
                        > Have you ever come across this problem before with clear blue skies?
                        > it's not the first time it's happened to me, perhaps I should just shoot
                        > on cloudy days in future.
                        >
                        > Bob
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > On 8 Aug 2013, at 14:13, Mark D. Fink wrote:
                        >
                        >>
                        >> Hi Bob,
                        >>
                        >> Just to be sure, you are shooting in RAW, then converting to 8bit TIFF
                        >> for stitching? If so, why 8bit instead of 16 bit? My suggestion would
                        >> be to re-convert these images to 16bit TIFF, stitch again using the
                        >> same pts file and see if that takes care of the banding.
                        >>
                        >> Mark
                        >>
                        >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        >>
                        >> *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                        >> <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>
                        >> [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                        >> <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters
                        >> *Sent:* Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:40 AM
                        >> *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>
                        >> *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> Hi Mark, Erik & Steve
                        >>
                        >> Here is the final stitched image:
                        >> http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/dh_test.jpg
                        >>
                        >> The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in each row, they are all 8bit
                        >> Tiffs, all shot at the same exposure and aperture.
                        >>
                        >> The banding is NOT visible in each individual image, it only becomes
                        >> apparent in the final stitched image.
                        >>
                        >> The banding is not uniform across the whole stitched image, it would
                        >> appear that each individual photo is producing it's own banding.
                        >>
                        >> Erik, I have sent the .pts file to your email address:
                        >> erik.krause@... <mailto:erik.krause@...>
                        >>
                        >> If you guys need to see anything else, i.e individual adjacent sky
                        >> images please let me know.
                        >>
                        >> Regards
                        >>
                        >> Bob
                        >>
                        >> ---------------------------------------
                        >>
                        >> On 7 Aug 2013, at 22:03, Steve Sheridan wrote:
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> Mark Finkis right. If what you’re talking about is large horizontal
                        >> bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It
                        >> has nothing to do with your camera, its orientation, mount, or
                        >> interpolators. Trace it back to the point where you can first see it
                        >> and that’s where you will find the source of your problem. If you
                        >> can’t see it in your RAW files or tiff conversions why would you think
                        >> it’s camera related? If you are using uneven exposures going into
                        >> PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It’s hard to say without
                        >> seeing some examples. I honestly don’t know where people come up with
                        >> some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait
                        >> mode, really? I’m sure thousands of news, advertising, portrait, and
                        >> architectural photographers would get a good laugh out of that one.
                        >> I’ve been shooting with SLRs, rangefinders, twin lens reflex, and view
                        >> cameras for over forty years and I’ve never heard of it or seen it. If
                        >> it’s only apparent in panorama related situations then I would assume
                        >> it has something to do with the panorama creation process. Please show
                        >> us some samples.
                        >>
                        >> Steve Sheridan
                        >>
                        >> *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                        >> <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>
                        >> [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                        >> <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters
                        >> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:42 PM
                        >> *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>
                        >> *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui
                        >>
                        >> Canon 5D Mk II ..OK I'll send you the .pts too.
                        >>
                        >> Thanks Erik
                        >>
                        >> On 7 Aug 2013, at 20:21, Erik Krause wrote:
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR
                        >>
                        >> Drive.
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> And what camera?
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> Tomorrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so
                        >>
                        >> you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the
                        >>
                        >> individual images if that helps.
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file
                        >> (just the .pts)?
                        >>
                        >> --
                        >> Erik Krause
                        >> http://www.erik-krause.de <http://www.erik-krause.de/>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> ------------------------------------
                        >>
                        >> --
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                      • Mark D. Fink
                        Hi Bob, One last question I should have posed earlier: are you outputting to 8bit or 16bit? If 8bit, change the output to 16bit and see if that clears up the
                        Message 11 of 28 , Aug 8, 2013

                          Hi Bob,

                           

                          One last question I should have posed earlier: are you outputting to 8bit or 16bit? If 8bit, change the output to 16bit and see if that clears up the banding. Ideally, you should have 16bit all the way through to the final stitch. Then, if you need a JPG for web publishing, use Photoshop or Lightroom to convert to 8bit.

                           

                          Mark

                           


                          From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
                          Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 11:50 AM
                          To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                           



                          Hi Mark

                           

                          Yup I shot Raws.

                           

                          I did as you suggested and converted the images to 16 bit Tiffs in Photoshop then used the same.pts file as before. Sadly I still have the same banding effect. Do you think it would it help if I sent you the .pts (without images) to look at? 

                           

                          Have you ever come across this problem before with clear blue skies? it's not the first time it's happened to me, perhaps I should just shoot on cloudy days in future.

                           

                          Bob

                           

                           

                           

                           

                          On 8 Aug 2013, at 14:13, Mark D. Fink wrote:



                           

                           

                          Hi Bob,

                           

                          Just to be sure, you are shooting in RAW, then converting to 8bit TIFF for stitching? If so, why 8bit instead of 16 bit? My suggestion would be to re-convert these images to 16bit TIFF, stitch again using the same pts file and see if that takes care of the banding.

                           

                          Mark

                           


                          From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
                          Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:40 AM
                          To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                           





                          Hi Mark, Erik & Steve

                           

                           

                           

                          The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in each row, they are all 8bit Tiffs, all shot at the same exposure and aperture.

                           

                          The banding is NOT visible in each individual image, it only becomes apparent in the final stitched image.

                           

                          The banding is not uniform across the whole stitched image, it would appear that each individual photo is producing it's own banding.

                           

                          Erik, I have sent the .pts file to your email address: erik.krause@...

                           

                          If you guys need to see anything else, i.e individual adjacent sky images please let me know.

                           

                          Regards

                           

                          Bob

                           

                           

                                                                      ---------------------------------------

                           

                           

                           

                          On 7 Aug 2013, at 22:03, Steve Sheridan wrote:




                           

                           

                          Mark Fink is right. If what you’re talking about is large horizontal bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It has nothing to do with your camera, its orientation, mount, or interpolators. Trace it back to the point where you can first see it and that’s where you will find the source of your problem. If you can’t see it in your RAW files or tiff conversions why would you think it’s camera related? If you are using uneven exposures going into PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It’s hard to say without seeing some examples. I honestly don’t know where people come up with some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait mode, really? I’m sure thousands of news, advertising, portrait, and architectural photographers would get a good laugh out of that one. I’ve been shooting with SLRs, rangefinders, twin lens reflex, and view cameras for over forty years and I’ve never heard of it or seen it. If it’s only apparent in panorama related situations then I would assume it has something to do with the panorama creation process. Please show us some samples.

                           

                          Steve Sheridan

                          From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
                          Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:42 PM
                          To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                           

                           

                          Canon 5D Mk II   ..OK I'll send you the .pts too. 

                           

                          Thanks Erik

                           

                           

                           

                          On 7 Aug 2013, at 20:21, Erik Krause wrote:





                          Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:



                          The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR

                          Drive.


                          And what camera?




                          Tom orrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so

                          you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the

                          individual images if that helps.


                          That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file
                          (just the .pts)?

                          --
                          Erik Krause
                          http://www.erik-krause.de


                          ------------------------------------

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                        • Steve Sheridan
                          Hi Bob, Thanks for sending the link. This not what I expected to see when you described it as color banding. This is very subtle and looks more like
                          Message 12 of 28 , Aug 8, 2013

                            Hi Bob,

                            Thanks for sending the link. This not what I expected to see when you described it as color banding. This is very subtle and looks more like compression artifacts. Have tried out putting to tiff instead of jpeg? If not, what are your jpeg compression settings? If outputting to tiff looks good, I would recommend converting from tiff to jpeg in Photoshop at a quality setting of about 90. FYI. I always keep my images at the highest quality settings (16 bit tiff) and then convert to jpeg for web use if necessary. I also use Adobe RGB for the color space as it has wider gamut range. Very nice photo by the way.

                            Steve

                             

                             

                            From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
                            Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 3:40 AM
                            To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                             

                             

                            Hi Mark, Erik & Steve

                             

                             

                             

                            The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in each row, they are all 8bit Tiffs, all shot at the same exposure and aperture.

                             

                            The banding is NOT visible in each individual image, it only becomes apparent in the final stitched image.

                             

                            The banding is not uniform across the whole stitched image, it would appear that each individual photo is producing it's own banding.

                             

                            Erik, I have sent the .pts file to your email address: erik.krause@...

                             

                            If you guys need to see anything else, i.e individual adjacent sky images please let me know.

                             

                            Regards

                             

                            Bob

                             

                             

                                                                        ---------------------------------------

                             

                             

                             

                            On 7 Aug 2013, at 22:03, Steve Sheridan wrote:



                             

                             

                            Mark Fink is right. If what you’re talking about is large horizontal bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It has nothing to do with your camera, its orientation, mount, or interpolators. Trace it back to the point where you can first see it and that’s where you will find the source of your problem. If you can’t see it in your RAW files or tiff conversions why would you think it’s camera related? If you are using uneven exposures going into PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It’s hard to say without seeing some examples. I honestly don’t know where people come up with some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait mode, really? I’m sure thousands of news, advertising, portrait, and architectural photographers would get a good laugh out of that one. I’ve been shooting with SLRs, rangefinders, twin lens reflex, and view cameras for over forty years and I’ve never heard of it or seen it. If it’s only apparent in panorama related situations then I would assume it has something to do with the panorama creation process. Please show us some samples.

                             

                            Steve Sheridan

                            From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
                            Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:42 PM
                            To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                             

                             

                            Canon 5D Mk II   ..OK I'll send you the .pts too. 

                             

                            Thanks Erik

                             

                             

                             

                            On 7 Aug 2013, at 20:21, Erik Krause wrote:




                            Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:


                            The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR

                            Drive.


                            And what camera?



                            Tomorrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so

                            you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the

                            individual images if that helps.


                            That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file
                            (just the .pts)?

                            --
                            Erik Krause
                            http://www.erik-krause.de


                            ------------------------------------

                            --
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                            Bob Masters fotógrafo
                            Email: bob@... 
                            Web:   http://www.bobmastersphotography.com

                            Tel:     +34 93 428 4357

                             

                          • Sacha Griffin
                            Looks like your standard iberal jpg compression to me. I assume you stitched to a tif and then saved as a jpg. Does the tif look the same? Best Regards, Sacha
                            Message 13 of 28 , Aug 8, 2013

                              Looks like your standard iberal jpg compression to me.

                              I assume you stitched to a tif and then saved as a jpg.

                              Does the tif look the same?

                               

                              Best Regards,

                               

                              Sacha Griffin

                              Southern Digital Solutions LLC  - Atlanta, Georgia

                              http://www.seeit360.com

                              http://twitter.com/SeeIt360

                              http://www.facebook.com/SeeIt360

                              IM: sachagriffin007@...

                              Office: 404-551-4275

                               

                               

                              From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
                              Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:40 AM
                              To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                               

                               

                              Hi Mark, Erik & Steve

                               

                               

                               

                              The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in each row, they are all 8bit Tiffs, all shot at the same exposure and aperture.

                               

                              The banding is NOT visible in each individual image, it only becomes apparent in the final stitched image.

                               

                              The banding is not uniform across the whole stitched image, it would appear that each individual photo is producing it's own banding.

                               

                              Erik, I have sent the .pts file to your email address: erik.krause@...

                               

                              If you guys need to see anything else, i.e individual adjacent sky images please let me know.

                               

                              Regards

                               

                              Bob

                               

                            • Erik Krause
                              ... Before you bash rewarded and very experienced photographers think of the following: In a DSLR both shutter curtains don t necessarily travel at the same
                              Message 14 of 28 , Aug 8, 2013
                                Am 07.08.2013 22:03, schrieb Steve Sheridan:
                                > If you are using uneven
                                > exposures going into PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It's hard
                                > to say without seeing some examples. I honestly don't know where people come
                                > up with some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait
                                > mode, really?

                                Before you bash rewarded and very experienced photographers think of the
                                following: In a DSLR both shutter curtains don't necessarily travel at
                                the same speed. This is most noticeable at fast shutter speeds, when
                                only a narrow slit moves across the sensor. If stitched in a panorama
                                the brighter side of an image is adjacent to the darker one in the next
                                image. In bright blue sky this is most noticeable.

                                That was what Ayrton was talking about. It is a well known and well
                                documented phenomenon. Hans Nyberg has some example images, but
                                unfortunately I can't find them ATM.

                                If shot in portrait mode this causes vertically repeating lighter and
                                darker zones across the image which can be seen in lots of gigapixel
                                images, f.e. in this one: http://www.gigapan.com/gigapans/117457

                                Consequently this structures would be horizontal if shot in landscape mode.

                                --
                                Erik Krause
                                http://www.erik-krause.de
                              • Bob Masters
                                Gentlemen, I have had a good degree of success with a combination of all your suggestions, as follows: I converted all the RAWS to 16 bit TIFFS then corrected
                                Message 15 of 28 , Aug 9, 2013
                                  Gentlemen,

                                  I have had a good degree of success with a combination of all your suggestions, as follows:

                                  I converted all the RAWS to 16 bit TIFFS then corrected some of the vignetting, (which I knew caused vertical banding but wasn't sure about the horizontal banding). I then started a new project in PTGui stitching all the images again and outputting a 16bit .psb file.

                                  The resulting gigaphoto can be seen here:   http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/new_dh_test.jpg  ..the big Tiff looks much better as it has no compression artifacts, but at least one can see that the horizontal banding has been greatly reduced.

                                  In answer to Sacha's question, yes the Tiff did look the same as the Jpeg, although as you say due to compression artifacts the banding was more pronounced in the Jpeg image that I posted.

                                  I have posted a couple of PTGui screen grabs here: http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/screen_grabs.jpg  ...showing my settings to create the pan, they are the result of using the 'Optimize now' feature in the Exposure / HDR Tab and my final settings, I have used the Lanczos16 interpolator, ..is this a good choice? Any other observations where I may be going wrong would be appreciated

                                  BTW The images were shot on a Canon 5D MkII with a Canon 24-70mm f2.8L lens set at 70mm.

                                  Many thanks once again to all of you.

                                  Bob







                                  On 8 Aug 2013, at 19:00, Fulvio Senore wrote:

                                  You should try using the 16 bit files in a new PTGui project.

                                  I am not 100% sure but I remember that some years ago I did not pay
                                  attention and I converted some raw files to 8 bit tiffs, then I stitched
                                  them with PTGui. When I realized that the images where 8 bit I made a
                                  new raw conversion creating 16 bit tiff files with the same name, I
                                  overwrote the existing files, I opened PTGui and I stitched the panorama
                                  again.
                                  The resulting file did not increase in size and this was clearly a sign
                                  that the output file was still 8 bit.

                                  This happened years ago so maybe things have changed, but I suggest that
                                  you stich some 16 bit images in a new PTGui project to see if things get
                                  better.
                                  Using 8 bit images is a good reason to get banding in the sky.

                                  Fulvio Senore


                                  Il 08/08/2013 17.50, Bob Masters ha scritto:


                                  Hi Mark

                                  Yup I shot Raws.

                                  I did as you suggested and converted the images to 16 bit Tiffs in
                                  Photoshop then used the same.pts file as before. Sadly I still have the
                                  same banding effect. Do you think it would it help if I sent you the
                                  .pts (without images) to look at?

                                  Have you ever come across this problem before with clear blue skies?
                                  it's not the first time it's happened to me, perhaps I should just shoot
                                  on cloudy days in future.

                                  Bob




                                  On 8 Aug 2013, at 14:13, Mark D. Fink wrote:


                                  Hi Bob,

                                  Just to be sure, you are shooting in RAW, then converting to 8bit TIFF
                                  for stitching? If so, why 8bit instead of 16 bit? My suggestion would
                                  be to re-convert these images to 16bit TIFF, stitch again using the
                                  same pts file and see if that takes care of the banding.

                                  Mark

                                  ------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                  *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                  <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>
                                  [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                  <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters
                                  *Sent:* Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:40 AM
                                  *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>
                                  *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui




                                  Hi Mark, Erik & Steve

                                  Here is the final stitched image:
                                  http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/dh_test.jpg

                                  The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in each row, they are all 8bit
                                  Tiffs, all shot at the same exposure and aperture.

                                  The banding is NOT visible in each individual image, it only becomes
                                  apparent in the final stitched image.

                                  The banding is not uniform across the whole stitched image, it would
                                  appear that each individual photo is producing it's own banding.

                                  Erik, I have sent the .pts file to your email address:
                                  erik.krause@... <mailto:erik.krause@...>

                                  If you guys need to see anything else, i.e individual adjacent sky
                                  images please let me know.

                                  Regards

                                  Bob

                                  ---------------------------------------

                                  On 7 Aug 2013, at 22:03, Steve Sheridan wrote:



                                  Mark Finkis right. If what you’re talking about is large horizontal
                                  bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It
                                  has nothing to do with your camera, its orientation, mount, or
                                  interpolators. Trace it back to the point where you can first see it
                                  and that’s where you will find the source of your problem. If you
                                  can’t see it in your RAW files or tiff conversions why would you think
                                  it’s camera related? If you are using uneven exposures going into
                                  PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It’s hard to say without
                                  seeing some examples. I honestly don’t know where people come up with
                                  some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait
                                  mode, really? I’m sure thousands of news, advertising, portrait, and
                                  architectural photographers would get a good laugh out of that one.
                                  I’ve been shooting with SLRs, rangefinders, twin lens reflex, and view
                                  cameras for over forty years and I’ve never heard of it or seen it. If
                                  it’s only apparent in panorama related situations then I would assume
                                  it has something to do with the panorama creation process. Please show
                                  us some samples.

                                  Steve Sheridan

                                  *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                  <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>
                                  [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                  <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters
                                  *Sent:* Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:42 PM
                                  *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>
                                  *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                                  Canon 5D Mk II   ..OK I'll send you the .pts too.

                                  Thanks Erik

                                  On 7 Aug 2013, at 20:21, Erik Krause wrote:




                                  Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:


                                  The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR

                                     Drive.


                                  And what camera?



                                  Tomorrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so

                                     you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the

                                     individual images if that helps.


                                  That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file
                                  (just the .pts)?

                                  --
                                  Erik Krause
                                  http://www.erik-krause.de <http://www.erik-krause.de/>


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                                  Bob Masters fotógrafo
                                  Email: bob@... 
                                  Web:   http://www.bobmastersphotography.com
                                  Tel:     +34 93 428 4357

                                • Mark D. Fink
                                  MUCH better - congratulations, and great image too! One last question - you mention the Exposure/HDR tab. Did you shoot multiple exposures requiring HDR? If
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Aug 9, 2013

                                    MUCH better - congratulations, and great image too! One last question - you mention the Exposure/HDR tab. Did you shoot multiple exposures requiring HDR? If not, then make sure you uncheck "Enable HDR stitching" as it will give you less than optimal results.

                                     

                                    Mark

                                     


                                    From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
                                    Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 9:42 AM
                                    To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                                     



                                    Gentlemen,

                                     

                                    I have had a good degree of success with a combination of all your suggestions, as follows:

                                     

                                    I converted all the RAWS to 16 bit TIFFS then corrected some of the vignetting, (which I knew caused vertical banding but wasn't sure about the horizontal banding). I then started a new project in PTGui stitching all the images again and outputting a 16bit .psb file.

                                     

                                    The resulting gigaphoto can be seen here:   http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/new_dh_test.jpg  ..the big Tiff looks much better as it has no compression artifacts, but at least one can see that the horizontal banding has been greatly reduced.

                                     

                                    In answer to Sacha's question, yes the Tiff did look the same as the Jpeg, although as you say due to compression artifacts the banding was more pronounced in the Jpeg image that I posted.

                                     

                                    I have posted a couple of PTGui screen grabs here: http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/screen_grabs.jpg  ...showing my settings to create the pan, they are the result of using the 'Optimize now' feature in the Exposure / HDR Tab and my final settings, I have used the Lanczos16 interpolator, ..is this a good choice? Any other observations where I may be going wrong would be appreciated

                                     

                                    BTW The images were shot on a Canon 5D MkII with a Canon 24-70mm f2.8L lens set at 70mm.

                                     

                                    Many thanks once again to all of you.

                                     

                                    Bob

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                    On 8 Aug 2013, at 19:00, Fulvio Senore wrote:



                                    You should try using the 16 bit files in a new PTGui project.

                                    I am not 100% sure but I remember that some years ago I did not pay
                                    attention and I converted some raw files to 8 bit tiffs, then I stitched
                                    them with PTGui. When I realized that the images where 8 bit I made a
                                    new raw conversion creating 16 bit tiff files with the same name, I
                                    overwrote the existing files, I opened PTGui and I stitched the panorama
                                    again.
                                    The resulting file did not increase in size and this was clearly a sign
                                    that the output file was still 8 bit.

                                    This happened years ago so maybe things have changed, but I suggest that
                                    you stich some 16 bit images in a new PTGui project to see if things get
                                    better.
                                    Using 8 bit images is a good reason to get banding in the sky.

                                    Fulvio Senore


                                    Il 08/08/2013 17.50, Bob Masters ha scritto:

                                     

                                     

                                    Hi Mark

                                     

                                    Yup I shot Raws.

                                     

                                    I did as you suggested and converted the images to 16 bit Tiffs in

                                    Photoshop then used the same.pts file as before. Sadly I still have the

                                    same banding effect. Do you think it would it help if I sent you the

                                    .pts (without images) to look at?

                                     

                                    Have you ever come across this problem before with clear blue skies?

                                    it's not the first time it's happened to me, perhaps I should just shoot

                                    on cloudy days in future.

                                     

                                    Bob

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                    On 8 Aug 2013, at 14:13, Mark D. Fink wrote:

                                     

                                     

                                    Hi Bob,

                                     

                                    Just to be sure, you are shooting in RAW, then converting to 8bit TIFF

                                    for stitching? If so, why 8bit instead of 16 bit? My suggestion would

                                    be to re-convert these images to 16bit TIFF, stitch again using the

                                    same pts file and see if that takes care of the banding.

                                     

                                    Mark

                                     

                                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                     

                                    *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                                    <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                                    [mailto: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                                    <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters

                                    *Sent:* Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:40 AM

                                    *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                                    *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                    Hi Mark, Erik & Steve

                                     

                                    Here is the final stitched image:

                                    http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/dh_test.jpg

                                     

                                    The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in each row, they are all 8bit

                                    Tiffs, all shot at the same exposure and aperture.

                                     

                                    The banding is NOT visible in each individual image, it only becomes

                                    apparent in the final stitched image.

                                     

                                    The banding is not uniform across the whole stitched image, it would

                                    appear that each individual photo is producing it's own banding.

                                     

                                    Erik, I have sent the .pts file to your email address:

                                    erik.krause@... <mailto:erik.krause@...>

                                     

                                    If you guys need to see anything else, i.e individual adjacent sky

                                    images please let me know.

                                     

                                    Regards

                                     

                                    Bob

                                     

                                    ---------------------------------------

                                     

                                    On 7 Aug 2013, at 22:03, Steve Sheridan wrote:

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                    Mark Fink is right. If what you’re talking about is large horizontal

                                    bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It

                                    has nothing to do with your camera, its orientation, mount, or

                                    interpolators. Trace it back to the point where you can first see it

                                    and that’s where you will find the source of your problem. If you

                                    can’t see it in your RAW files or tiff conversions why would you think

                                    it’s camera related? If you are using uneven exposures going into

                                    PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It’s hard to say without

                                    seeing some examples. I honestly don’t know where people come up with

                                    some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait

                                    mode, really? I’m sure thousands of news, advertising, portrait, and

                                    architectural photographers would get a good laugh out of that one.

                                    I’ve been shooting with SLRs, rangefinders, twin lens reflex, and view

                                    cameras for over forty years and I’ve never heard of it or seen it. If

                                    it’s only apparent in panorama related situations then I would assume

                                    it has something to do with the panorama creation process. Please show

                                    us some samples.

                                     

                                    Steve Sheridan

                                     

                                    *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                                    <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                                    [mailto: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                                    <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters

                                    *Sent:* Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:42 PM

                                    *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                                    *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                                     

                                    Canon 5D Mk II   ..OK I'll send you the .pts too.

                                     

                                    Thanks Erik

                                     

                                    On 7 Aug 2013, at 20:21, Erik Krause wrote:

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                    Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:

                                     

                                     

                                    The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR

                                     

                                       Drive.

                                     

                                     

                                    And what camera?

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                    Tom orrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so

                                     

                                       you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the

                                     

                                       individual images if that helps.

                                     

                                     

                                    That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file

                                    (just the .pts)?

                                     

                                    --

                                    Erik Krause

                                    http://www.erik-krause.de <http://www.erik-krause.de/>

                                     

                                     

                                    ------------------------------------

                                     

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                                  • Bob Masters
                                    Thanks Mark, no I didn t shoot multiples exposures and I d left that box unchecked for that reason. I did use the Optimize now feature though because I
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Aug 9, 2013
                                      Thanks Mark,  no I didn't shoot multiples exposures and I'd left that box unchecked for that reason. I did use the 'Optimize now' feature though because I thought it would even more of the vignetting/banding problems.

                                      Bob





                                      On 9 Aug 2013, at 15:47, Mark D. Fink wrote:

                                       

                                      MUCH better - congratulations, and great image too! One last question - you mention the Exposure/HDR tab. Did you shoot multiple exposures requiring HDR? If not, then make sure you uncheck "Enable HDR stitching" as it will give you less than optimal results.

                                       

                                      Mark

                                       


                                      From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
                                      Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 9:42 AM
                                      To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                                       



                                      Gentlemen,

                                       

                                      I have had a good degree of success with a combination of all your suggestions, as follows:

                                       

                                      I converted all the RAWS to 16 bit TIFFS then corrected some of the vignetting, (which I knew caused vertical banding but wasn't sure about the horizontal banding). I then started a new project in PTGui stitching all the images again and outputting a 16bit .psb file.

                                       

                                      The resulting gigaphoto can be seen here:   http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/new_dh_test.jpg  ..the big Tiff looks much better as it has no compression artifacts, but at least one can see that the horizontal banding has been greatly reduced.

                                       

                                      In answer to Sacha's question, yes the Tiff did look the same as the Jpeg, although as you say due to compression artifacts the banding was more pronounced in the Jpeg image that I posted.

                                       

                                      I have posted a couple of PTGui screen grabs here: http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/screen_grabs.jpg  ...showing my settings to create the pan, they are the result of using the 'Optimize now' feature in the Exposure / HDR Tab and my final settings, I have used the Lanczos16 interpolator, ..is this a good choice? Any other observations where I may be going wrong would be appreciated

                                       

                                      BTW The images were shot on a Canon 5D MkII with a Canon 24-70mm f2.8L lens set at 70mm.

                                       

                                      Many thanks once again to all of you.

                                       

                                      Bob

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      On 8 Aug 2013, at 19:00, Fulvio Senore wrote:



                                      You should try using the 16 bit files in a new PTGui project.

                                      I am not 100% sure but I remember that some years ago I did not pay
                                      attention and I converted some raw files to 8 bit tiffs, then I stitched
                                      them with PTGui. When I realized that the images where 8 bit I made a
                                      new raw conversion creating 16 bit tiff files with the same name, I
                                      overwrote the existing files, I opened PTGui and I stitched the panorama
                                      again.
                                      The resulting file did not increase in size and this was clearly a sign
                                      that the output file was still 8 bit.

                                      This happened years ago so maybe things have changed, but I suggest that
                                      you stich some 16 bit images in a new PTGui project to see if things get
                                      better.
                                      Using 8 bit images is a good reason to get banding in the sky.

                                      Fulvio Senore


                                      Il 08/08/2013 17.50, Bob Masters ha scritto:

                                       

                                       

                                      Hi Mark

                                       

                                      Yup I shot Raws.

                                       

                                      I did as you suggested and converted the images to 16 bit Tiffs in

                                      Photoshop then used the same.pts file as before. Sadly I still have the

                                      same banding effect. Do you think it would it help if I sent you the

                                      .pts (without images) to look at?

                                       

                                      Have you ever come across this problem before with clear blue skies?

                                      it's not the first time it's happened to me, perhaps I should just shoot

                                      on cloudy days in future.

                                       

                                      Bob

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      On 8 Aug 2013, at 14:13, Mark D. Fink wrote:

                                       

                                       

                                      Hi Bob,

                                       

                                      Just to be sure, you are shooting in RAW, then converting to 8bit TIFF

                                      for stitching? If so, why 8bit instead of 16 bit? My suggestion would

                                      be to re-convert these images to 16bit TIFF, stitch again using the

                                      same pts file and see if that takes care of the banding.

                                       

                                      Mark

                                       

                                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                       

                                      *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                                      <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                                      [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                                      <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters

                                      *Sent:* Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:40 AM

                                      *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                                      *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      Hi Mark, Erik & Steve

                                       

                                      Here is the final stitched image:

                                      http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/dh_test.jpg

                                       

                                      The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in each row, they are all 8bit

                                      Tiffs, all shot at the same exposure and aperture.

                                       

                                      The banding is NOT visible in each individual image, it only becomes

                                      apparent in the final stitched image.

                                       

                                      The banding is not uniform across the whole stitched image, it would

                                      appear that each individual photo is producing it's own banding.

                                       

                                      Erik, I have sent the .pts file to your email address:

                                      erik.krause@... <mailto:erik.krause@...>

                                       

                                      If you guys need to see anything else, i.e individual adjacent sky

                                      images please let me know.

                                       

                                      Regards

                                       

                                      Bob

                                       

                                      ---------------------------------------

                                       

                                      On 7 Aug 2013, at 22:03, Steve Sheridan wrote:

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      Mark Fink is right. If what you’re talking about is large horizontal

                                      bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It

                                      has nothing to do with your camera, its orientation, mount, or

                                      interpolators. Trace it back to the point where you can first see it

                                      and that’s where you will find the source of your problem. If you

                                      can’t see it in your RAW files or tiff conversions why would you think

                                      it’s camera related? If you are using uneven exposures going into

                                      PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It’s hard to say without

                                      seeing some examples. I honestly don’t know where people come up with

                                      some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait

                                      mode, really? I’m sure thousands of news, advertising, portrait, and

                                      architectural photographers would get a good laugh out of that one.

                                      I’ve been shooting with SLRs, rangefinders, twin lens reflex, and view

                                      cameras for over forty years and I’ve never heard of it or seen it. If

                                      it’s only apparent in panorama related situations then I would assume

                                      it has something to do with the panorama creation process. Please show

                                      us some samples.

                                       

                                      Steve Sheridan

                                       

                                      *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                                      <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                                      [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                                      <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters

                                      *Sent:* Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:42 PM

                                      *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                                      *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                                       

                                      Canon 5D Mk II   ..OK I'll send you the .pts too.

                                       

                                      Thanks Erik

                                       

                                      On 7 Aug 2013, at 20:21, Erik Krause wrote:

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:

                                       

                                       

                                      The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR

                                       

                                         Drive.

                                       

                                       

                                      And what camera?

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      Tom orrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so

                                       

                                         you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the

                                       

                                         individual images if that helps.

                                       

                                       

                                      That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file

                                      (just the .pts)?

                                       

                                      --

                                      Erik Krause

                                      http://www.erik-krause.de <http://www.erik-krause.de/>

                                       

                                       

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                                      Bob Masters fotógrafo
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                                      Tel:     +34 93 428 4357

                                       




                                      Bob Masters fotógrafo
                                      Email: bob@... 
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                                      Tel:     +34 93 428 4357

                                    • Steve Sheridan
                                      Nice work Bob! It looks like your hard work and troubleshooting paid off. Thank you for sharing the results and the screen grabs too. Steve From:
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Aug 9, 2013

                                        Nice work Bob! It looks like your hard work and troubleshooting paid off. Thank you for sharing the results and the screen grabs too.

                                        Steve

                                         

                                        From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
                                        Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 8:42 AM
                                        To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                                         

                                         

                                        Gentlemen,

                                         

                                        I have had a good degree of success with a combination of all your suggestions, as follows:

                                         

                                        I converted all the RAWS to 16 bit TIFFS then corrected some of the vignetting, (which I knew caused vertical banding but wasn't sure about the horizontal banding). I then started a new project in PTGui stitching all the images again and outputting a 16bit .psb file.

                                         

                                        The resulting gigaphoto can be seen here:   http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/new_dh_test.jpg  ..the big Tiff looks much better as it has no compression artifacts, but at least one can see that the horizontal banding has been greatly reduced.

                                         

                                        In answer to Sacha's question, yes the Tiff did look the same as the Jpeg, although as you say due to compression artifacts the banding was more pronounced in the Jpeg image that I posted.

                                         

                                        I have posted a couple of PTGui screen grabs here: http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/screen_grabs.jpg  ...showing my settings to create the pan, they are the result of using the 'Optimize now' feature in the Exposure / HDR Tab and my final settings, I have used the Lanczos16 interpolator, ..is this a good choice? Any other observations where I may be going wrong would be appreciated

                                         

                                        BTW The images were shot on a Canon 5D MkII with a Canon 24-70mm f2.8L lens set at 70mm.

                                         

                                        Many thanks once again to all of you.

                                         

                                        Bob

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                        On 8 Aug 2013, at 19:00, Fulvio Senore wrote:



                                        You should try using the 16 bit files in a new PTGui project.

                                        I am not 100% sure but I remember that some years ago I did not pay
                                        attention and I converted some raw files to 8 bit tiffs, then I stitched
                                        them with PTGui. When I realized that the images where 8 bit I made a
                                        new raw conversion creating 16 bit tiff files with the same name, I
                                        overwrote the existing files, I opened PTGui and I stitched the panorama
                                        again.
                                        The resulting file did not increase in size and this was clearly a sign
                                        that the output file was still 8 bit.

                                        This happened years ago so maybe things have changed, but I suggest that
                                        you stich some 16 bit images in a new PTGui project to see if things get
                                        better.
                                        Using 8 bit images is a good reason to get banding in the sky.

                                        Fulvio Senore


                                        Il 08/08/2013 17.50, Bob Masters ha scritto:

                                         

                                         

                                        Hi Mark

                                         

                                        Yup I shot Raws.

                                         

                                        I did as you suggested and converted the images to 16 bit Tiffs in

                                        Photoshop then used the same.pts file as before. Sadly I still have the

                                        same banding effect. Do you think it would it help if I sent you the

                                        .pts (without images) to look at?

                                         

                                        Have you ever come across this problem before with clear blue skies?

                                        it's not the first time it's happened to me, perhaps I should just shoot

                                        on cloudy days in future.

                                         

                                        Bob

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                        On 8 Aug 2013, at 14:13, Mark D. Fink wrote:

                                         

                                         

                                        Hi Bob,

                                         

                                        Just to be sure, you are shooting in RAW, then converting to 8bit TIFF

                                        for stitching? If so, why 8bit instead of 16 bit? My suggestion would

                                        be to re-convert these images to 16bit TIFF, stitch again using the

                                        same pts file and see if that takes care of the banding.

                                         

                                        Mark

                                         

                                        ------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                         

                                        *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                                        <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                                        [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                                        <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters

                                        *Sent:* Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:40 AM

                                        *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                                        *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                        Hi Mark, Erik & Steve

                                         

                                        Here is the final stitched image:

                                        http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/dh_test.jpg

                                         

                                        The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in each row, they are all 8bit

                                        Tiffs, all shot at the same exposure and aperture.

                                         

                                        The banding is NOT visible in each individual image, it only becomes

                                        apparent in the final stitched image.

                                         

                                        The banding is not uniform across the whole stitched image, it would

                                        appear that each individual photo is producing it's own banding.

                                         

                                        Erik, I have sent the .pts file to your email address:

                                        erik.krause@... <mailto:erik.krause@...>

                                         

                                        If you guys need to see anything else, i.e individual adjacent sky

                                        images please let me know.

                                         

                                        Regards

                                         

                                        Bob

                                         

                                        ---------------------------------------

                                         

                                        On 7 Aug 2013, at 22:03, Steve Sheridan wrote:

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                        Mark Finkis right. If what you’re talking about is large horizontal

                                        bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It

                                        has nothing to do with your camera, its orientation, mount, or

                                        interpolators. Trace it back to the point where you can first see it

                                        and that’s where you will find the source of your problem. If you

                                        can’t see it in your RAW files or tiff conversions why would you think

                                        it’s camera related? If you are using uneven exposures going into

                                        PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It’s hard to say without

                                        seeing some examples. I honestly don’t know where people come up with

                                        some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait

                                        mode, really? I’m sure thousands of news, advertising, portrait, and

                                        architectural photographers would get a good laugh out of that one.

                                        I’ve been shooting with SLRs, rangefinders, twin lens reflex, and view

                                        cameras for over forty years and I’ve never heard of it or seen it. If

                                        it’s only apparent in panorama related situations then I would assume

                                        it has something to do with the panorama creation process. Please show

                                        us some samples.

                                         

                                        Steve Sheridan

                                         

                                        *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                                        <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                                        [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                                        <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters

                                        *Sent:* Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:42 PM

                                        *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                                        *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                                         

                                        Canon 5D Mk II   ..OK I'll send you the .pts too.

                                         

                                        Thanks Erik

                                         

                                        On 7 Aug 2013, at 20:21, Erik Krause wrote:

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                        Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:

                                         

                                         

                                        The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR

                                         

                                           Drive.

                                         

                                         

                                        And what camera?

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                        Tomorrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so

                                         

                                           you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the

                                         

                                           individual images if that helps.

                                         

                                         

                                        That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file

                                        (just the .pts)?

                                         

                                        --

                                        Erik Krause

                                        http://www.erik-krause.de <http://www.erik-krause.de/>

                                         

                                         

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                                      • David
                                        There are many reasons to get artifacts in clear blue skies that I have run into. I think they have all been mentioned in this thread, though I was not aware
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Aug 9, 2013
                                          There are many reasons to get artifacts in clear blue skies that I have run into. I think they have all been mentioned in this thread, though I was not aware of the shutter current one.

                                          I would think an appropriately intelligent person (not me) could write a special sky fixing filter that samples the sky and restores the smooth gradient and thereby fix all kinds of jpg, 8bit, shutter curtain sky banding/etc. This would be an awesome feature to go along with OnOne's masking tool. Any volunteers?

                                          There is still a problem with common sharing sites such as 360cities where you will get sky banding regardless of whether you had it in your originals or not. I assume due to compression they use on their site. It would be great if they could improve their sky compression quality.

                                          David B

                                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Erik Krause <erik.krause@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Am 07.08.2013 22:03, schrieb Steve Sheridan:
                                          > > If you are using uneven
                                          > > exposures going into PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It's hard
                                          > > to say without seeing some examples. I honestly don't know where people come
                                          > > up with some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait
                                          > > mode, really?
                                          >
                                          > Before you bash rewarded and very experienced photographers think of the
                                          > following: In a DSLR both shutter curtains don't necessarily travel at
                                          > the same speed. This is most noticeable at fast shutter speeds, when
                                          > only a narrow slit moves across the sensor. If stitched in a panorama
                                          > the brighter side of an image is adjacent to the darker one in the next
                                          > image. In bright blue sky this is most noticeable.
                                          >
                                          > That was what Ayrton was talking about. It is a well known and well
                                          > documented phenomenon. Hans Nyberg has some example images, but
                                          > unfortunately I can't find them ATM.
                                          >
                                          > If shot in portrait mode this causes vertically repeating lighter and
                                          > darker zones across the image which can be seen in lots of gigapixel
                                          > images, f.e. in this one: http://www.gigapan.com/gigapans/117457
                                          >
                                          > Consequently this structures would be horizontal if shot in landscape mode.
                                          >
                                          > --
                                          > Erik Krause
                                          > http://www.erik-krause.de
                                          >
                                        • Sacha Griffin
                                          You should correct all your vignetting in raw format. I donÆt think that lens/focal length combination will give you enough vignetting that it canÆt be
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Aug 9, 2013

                                            You should correct all your vignetting in raw format. I don’t think that lens/focal length combination will give you enough vignetting that it can’t be completely correcting in adobe raw convertor.

                                             

                                            The original chromatic banding does look like a combination of 8 bit image editing combined with a medium level jpg compression. Do all your editing in 16 bit always. Also the file path “lightbox” may indicate it’s been processed by your web server ie recompressed. If you’ve just gone from 16bit tiff, to JPG level 10 and nothing else. Then your new image still doesn’t look right. It looks like jpg level 6. For normal web delivery, this is just fine. It’s really unavoidable and there are more important things to worry about. For image archival/printing, you don’t want that of course.

                                             

                                            Best Regards,

                                             

                                            Sacha Griffin

                                            Southern Digital Solutions LLC  - Atlanta, Georgia

                                            http://www.seeit360.com

                                            http://twitter.com/SeeIt360

                                            http://www.facebook.com/SeeIt360

                                            IM: sachagriffin007@...

                                            Office: 404-551-4275

                                             

                                             

                                            From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Masters
                                            Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 9:42 AM
                                            To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                                             

                                             

                                            Gentlemen,

                                             

                                            I have had a good degree of success with a combination of all your suggestions, as follows:

                                             

                                            I converted all the RAWS to 16 bit TIFFS then corrected some of the vignetting, (which I knew caused vertical banding but wasn't sure about the horizontal banding). I then started a new project in PTGui stitching all the images again and outputting a 16bit .psb file.

                                             

                                            The resulting gigaphoto can be seen here:   http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/new_dh_test.jpg  ..the big Tiff looks much better as it has no compression artifacts, but at least one can see that the horizontal banding has been greatly reduced.

                                             

                                            In answer to Sacha's question, yes the Tiff did look the same as the Jpeg, although as you say due to compression artifacts the banding was more pronounced in the Jpeg image that I posted.

                                             

                                            I have posted a couple of PTGui screen grabs here: http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/screen_grabs.jpg  ...showing my settings to create the pan, they are the result of using the 'Optimize now' feature in the Exposure / HDR Tab and my final settings, I have used the Lanczos16 interpolator, ..is this a good choice? Any other observations where I may be going wrong would be appreciated

                                             

                                            BTW The images were shot on a Canon 5D MkII with a Canon 24-70mm f2.8L lens set at 70mm.

                                             

                                            Many thanks once again to all of you.

                                             

                                            Bob

                                             

                                             

                                             

                                             

                                             

                                             

                                             

                                            On 8 Aug 2013, at 19:00, Fulvio Senore wrote:



                                            You should try using the 16 bit files in a new PTGui project.

                                            I am not 100% sure but I remember that some years ago I did not pay
                                            attention and I converted some raw files to 8 bit tiffs, then I stitched
                                            them with PTGui. When I realized that the images where 8 bit I made a
                                            new raw conversion creating 16 bit tiff files with the same name, I
                                            overwrote the existing files, I opened PTGui and I stitched the panorama
                                            again.
                                            The resulting file did not increase in size and this was clearly a sign
                                            that the output file was still 8 bit.

                                            This happened years ago so maybe things have changed, but I suggest that
                                            you stich some 16 bit images in a new PTGui project to see if things get
                                            better.
                                            Using 8 bit images is a good reason to get banding in the sky.

                                            Fulvio Senore


                                            Il 08/08/2013 17.50, Bob Masters ha scritto:

                                             

                                             

                                            Hi Mark

                                             

                                            Yup I shot Raws.

                                             

                                            I did as you suggested and converted the images to 16 bit Tiffs in

                                            Photoshop then used the same.pts file as before. Sadly I still have the

                                            same banding effect. Do you think it would it help if I sent you the

                                            .pts (without images) to look at?

                                             

                                            Have you ever come across this problem before with clear blue skies?

                                            it's not the first time it's happened to me, perhaps I should just shoot

                                            on cloudy days in future.

                                             

                                            Bob

                                             

                                             

                                             

                                             

                                            On 8 Aug 2013, at 14:13, Mark D. Fink wrote:

                                             

                                             

                                            Hi Bob,

                                             

                                            Just to be sure, you are shooting in RAW, then converting to 8bit TIFF

                                            for stitching? If so, why 8bit instead of 16 bit? My suggestion would

                                            be to re-convert these images to 16bit TIFF, stitch again using the

                                            same pts file and see if that takes care of the banding.

                                             

                                            Mark

                                             

                                            ------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                             

                                            *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                                            <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                                            [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                                            <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters

                                            *Sent:* Thursday, August 08, 2013 4:40 AM

                                            *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                                            *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                                             

                                             

                                             

                                             

                                            Hi Mark, Erik & Steve

                                             

                                            Here is the final stitched image:

                                            http://files.bobmastersphotography.com/lightbox/dh_test.jpg

                                             

                                            The gigaphoto has 4 rows, 11 images in each row, they are all 8bit

                                            Tiffs, all shot at the same exposure and aperture.

                                             

                                            The banding is NOT visible in each individual image, it only becomes

                                            apparent in the final stitched image.

                                             

                                            The banding is not uniform across the whole stitched image, it would

                                            appear that each individual photo is producing it's own banding.

                                             

                                            Erik, I have sent the .pts file to your email address:

                                            erik.krause@... <mailto:erik.krause@...>

                                             

                                            If you guys need to see anything else, i.e individual adjacent sky

                                            images please let me know.

                                             

                                            Regards

                                             

                                            Bob

                                             

                                            ---------------------------------------

                                             

                                            On 7 Aug 2013, at 22:03, Steve Sheridan wrote:

                                             

                                             

                                             

                                            Mark Finkis right. If what you’re talking about is large horizontal

                                            bands of color levels it is almost certainly is bit depth related. It

                                            has nothing to do with your camera, its orientation, mount, or

                                            interpolators. Trace it back to the point where you can first see it

                                            and that’s where you will find the source of your problem. If you

                                            can’t see it in your RAW files or tiff conversions why would you think

                                            it’s camera related? If you are using uneven exposures going into

                                            PTGUI, it might be caused by uneven blending. It’s hard to say without

                                            seeing some examples. I honestly don’t know where people come up with

                                            some of these theories. Color banding caused by shooting in portrait

                                            mode, really? I’m sure thousands of news, advertising, portrait, and

                                            architectural photographers would get a good laugh out of that one.

                                            I’ve been shooting with SLRs, rangefinders, twin lens reflex, and view

                                            cameras for over forty years and I’ve never heard of it or seen it. If

                                            it’s only apparent in panorama related situations then I would assume

                                            it has something to do with the panorama creation process. Please show

                                            us some samples.

                                             

                                            Steve Sheridan

                                             

                                            *From:*PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                                            <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                                            [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com

                                            <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Bob Masters

                                            *Sent:* Wednesday, August 07, 2013 1:42 PM

                                            *To:* PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>

                                            *Subject:* Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Horizontal banding in blue sky with PTGui

                                             

                                            Canon 5D Mk II   ..OK I'll send you the .pts too.

                                             

                                            Thanks Erik

                                             

                                            On 7 Aug 2013, at 20:21, Erik Krause wrote:

                                             

                                             

                                             

                                             

                                            Am 07.08.2013 20:18, schrieb Robert Masters:

                                             

                                             

                                            The camera was in portrait mode, mounted on a Seitz Roundshot VR

                                             

                                               Drive.

                                             

                                             

                                            And what camera?

                                             

                                             

                                             

                                            Tomorrow I'll send you a link with the finished gigaphoto image so

                                             

                                               you can see the banding in the sky. I'll also post a few of the

                                             

                                               individual images if that helps.

                                             

                                             

                                            That would help, yes. Perhaps you could also provide your project file

                                            (just the .pts)?

                                             

                                            --

                                            Erik Krause

                                            http://www.erik-krause.de <http://www.erik-krause.de/>

                                             

                                             

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                                            Bob Masters fotógrafo
                                            Email: bob@... 
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                                            Tel:     +34 93 428 4357

                                             

                                          • Erik Krause
                                            ... If you want to avoid compression banding you can add some noise to sky only (or leave it there - Aggressive de-noising isn t recommended anyway). -- Erik
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Aug 9, 2013
                                              Am 09.08.2013 20:00, schrieb David:
                                              > There is still a problem with common sharing sites such as 360cities
                                              > where you will get sky banding regardless of whether you had it in
                                              > your originals or not. I assume due to compression they use on their
                                              > site. It would be great if they could improve their sky compression
                                              > quality.

                                              If you want to avoid compression banding you can add some noise to sky
                                              only (or leave it there - Aggressive de-noising isn't recommended anyway).

                                              --
                                              Erik Krause
                                              http://www.erik-krause.de
                                            • David
                                              I ve tried adding noise but so far not been real pleased with the results. I don t really like noise, or banding. David B
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Aug 10, 2013
                                                I've tried adding noise but so far not been real pleased with the results. I don't really like noise, or banding.

                                                David B


                                                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Erik Krause <erik.krause@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Am 09.08.2013 20:00, schrieb David:
                                                > > There is still a problem with common sharing sites such as 360cities
                                                > > where you will get sky banding regardless of whether you had it in
                                                > > your originals or not. I assume due to compression they use on their
                                                > > site. It would be great if they could improve their sky compression
                                                > > quality.
                                                >
                                                > If you want to avoid compression banding you can add some noise to sky
                                                > only (or leave it there - Aggressive de-noising isn't recommended anyway).
                                                >
                                                > --
                                                > Erik Krause
                                                > http://www.erik-krause.de
                                                >
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