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Re: [PanoToolsNG] Panotour pro, KRpano and Kolor upgrade policy...

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  • Luca Vascon
    I guess I ve seen the editor, still in alpha?! It is THE kind of editor I like.. 2013/6/27 Sacha Griffin ... -- Luca
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 27, 2013
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      I guess I've seen the editor, still in alpha?!
      It is THE kind of editor I like..


      2013/6/27 Sacha Griffin <sachagriffin@...>


      Andrey who codes some amazing xml plugins and project has a free editor you may wish to take a look at.

      There is a recent thread where I believe he posted a link. He’s a coder and a user so most likely the xml is far better.

       

      However, I’m like you. I can code faster and cleaner by hand.. and the fact that there’s PHP everywhere eliminates using an editor for most things.

       

      Best Regards,

       

      Sacha Griffin

      Southern Digital Solutions LLC  - Atlanta, Georgia

      http://www.seeit360.com

      http://twitter.com/SeeIt360

      http://www.facebook.com/SeeIt360

      IM: sachagriffin007@...

      Office: 404-551-4275

       

       

      From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Luca Vascon
      Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 12:50 PM
      To: panotoolsng
      Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Panotour pro, KRpano and Kolor upgrade policy...

       

       

      I'm writing this more with my heart than with my brain, so take it as it is...

       

      I was wandering around Kolor website. I had news from friends that were in iceland that Panotour Pro 2.0 was coming out, and giving finally a good-and-clean krpano xml output.

      I had a project this spring that needed some virtualtours to be realized.

      I have to say, to make things clear, that I know how to code in KRpano, and I usually do that. I realize the whole things from scratches. I decided to put the money together and to buy Panotour pro, just to put together the things more easily, to save some time, and use the code it generates as base for the final tours.

      Ok, our output are usually made-to-measure things, so, our interfaces, ways of interact, graphics, are made to fullfill the actual needs of the customer.

      We do not change "skins", we project interfaces

      It ended up that the Panotour Pro is aimed for ready-made tours, and the code it pops out is a mess. All the resulting virtual tour will have the panotourpro inprinting, whoever will recognize bounduaries and presets, schemes and patterns... Ok, I agree, it is not possible to make it differently with a software.

      Well... in terms of xml?! Even the placing of elements in the map is something I'd prefer doing by hand. I could not make any use of Panotour Pro, at the end. XML usage is kinda messy and out  of my standards (that are copy of Klaus KRpano examples), completely.

      Using KRPano with its own tools is, for me, faster, less complicate etc.

      Ok, Panotour Pro stays on the drower, hoping next version will give me some reason to use it.

      Now I do not know if next version will be the thing I'll be looking for, but since the upgrade policy, and the rising price, it will be for the same price I gave for the version 1.8 just less than 60 days ago (I had KRpano, so I could use it as discount token)...

      Ok, I already did my idiocy. I bought a software I'll never have reason to use (the xml output is a real mess, it is disabled in the evaluation copy). My heart feeling, now, is that I won't upgrade. Even if it gives me a good code, in which I'll for sure have to put hours more to get things my own way, and I will not be able to see it if not thank to somebody who bought it... it will not justify that price tag.

      Said that, I do not think I can resell my licence (with KRpano discount etc) and I only throw my money out of the window...

       

      I'd add... buy KRpano licence itself, and learn how to code!

      That is the core! the most fantastic panoramic display softtware EVER, and it is so damm cheap! with no upgrade policies or surprises, till now. Ok, average upgrade is every 4-6 months, with GREAT plus and functionalities...

       

      :-)

       







      --
      Luca Vascon.
      --
      Questa è la mia mail privata, la guardo di tanto in tanto.
      Se volete parlarmi di lavoro, contattatemi attraverso i siti qui sotto.
    • jrgen_schrader
      I agree, Luca, but want to add that a) the headline is a bit misleading, because it is more about your own upgrading plans as with Kolor upgrade policy. b) PTP
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 28, 2013
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        I agree, Luca, but want to add that a) the headline is a bit misleading, because it is more about your own upgrading plans as with Kolor upgrade policy.

        b) PTP can be of great help for those that have no idea about tour building. For example I introduced it in my last workshop for photojournalists that wanted to learn about spherical panoramas.

        Taking the image is one thing, showing them is a completely different thing.

        It all depends on personal needs and how deep one wants to get into that matter, but I garee that for those who are already very familiar with XML coding the output from PTP can be a bit surprising :-)

        We will have to wait and see how far they can get with the version 2.0 and if any of the "issues" of the current version will at least be "smoothed".

        Cheers
        Jürgen

        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Luca Vascon <luca.vascon@...> wrote:
        >
        > I'm writing this more with my heart than with my brain, so take it as it
        > is...
        >
        > I was wandering around Kolor website. I had news from friends that were in
        > iceland that Panotour Pro 2.0 was coming out, and giving finally a
        > good-and-clean krpano xml output.
        > I had a project this spring that needed some virtualtours to be realized.
        > I have to say, to make things clear, that I know how to code in KRpano, and
        > I usually do that. I realize the whole things from scratches. I decided to
        > put the money together and to buy Panotour pro, just to put together the
        > things more easily, to save some time, and use the code it generates as
        > base for the final tours.
        > Ok, our output are usually made-to-measure things, so, our interfaces, ways
        > of interact, graphics, are made to fullfill the actual needs of the
        > customer.
        > We do not change "skins", we project interfaces
        > It ended up that the Panotour Pro is aimed for ready-made tours, and the
        > code it pops out is a mess. All the resulting virtual tour will have the
        > panotourpro inprinting, whoever will recognize bounduaries and presets,
        > schemes and patterns... Ok, I agree, it is not possible to make it
        > differently with a software.
        > Well... in terms of xml?! Even the placing of elements in the map is
        > something I'd prefer doing by hand. I could not make any use of Panotour
        > Pro, at the end. XML usage is kinda messy and out of my standards (that
        > are copy of Klaus KRpano examples), completely.
        > Using KRPano with its own tools is, for me, faster, less complicate etc.
        > Ok, Panotour Pro stays on the drower, hoping next version will give me some
        > reason to use it.
        > Now I do not know if next version will be the thing I'll be looking for,
        > but since the upgrade policy, and the rising price, it will be for the same
        > price I gave for the version 1.8 just less than 60 days ago (I had KRpano,
        > so I could use it as discount token)...
        > Ok, I already did my idiocy. I bought a software I'll never have reason to
        > use (the xml output is a real mess, it is disabled in the evaluation copy).
        > My heart feeling, now, is that I won't upgrade. Even if it gives me a good
        > code, in which I'll for sure have to put hours more to get things my own
        > way, and I will not be able to see it if not thank to somebody who bought
        > it... it will not justify that price tag.
        > Said that, I do not think I can resell my licence (with KRpano discount
        > etc) and I only throw my money out of the window...
        >
        > I'd add... buy KRpano licence itself, and learn how to code!
        > That is the core! the most fantastic panoramic display softtware EVER, and
        > it is so damm cheap! with no upgrade policies or surprises, till now. Ok,
        > average upgrade is every 4-6 months, with GREAT plus and functionalities...
        >
        > :-)
        >
        >
        >
        > --
        > Luca Vascon.
        > --
        > www.lucavascon.net
        > www.officinepanottiche.com
        > www.nuovostudio.it
        >
      • afrenyo
        Hey Luca, I feel the same way. When I saw the xml, and realized its shortcominfs, I wanted to return it, Within the firs couple of days, but, of course that
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 28, 2013
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          Hey Luca,

          I feel the same way. When I saw the xml, and realized its shortcominfs, I wanted to return it, Within the firs couple of days, but, of course that was not possible - never used it.

          And I sold an awful lotta tours in this time. None could I use the software for, this was clear to me right away, once I could see beyond its demo abilities.

          It's not a tool for someone who knows what they are doing, and want to just speed some part of the process up at times. It takes away reasonable control of your project through its messy , unoptimized code. Add the ironic difficulty with which you might wanna enable your tour with _current_ krpano features (i.e. improved, not even the added ones), which they simply don't keep up with . . . .

          It was a waste of money for me, but there are plenty of people who couldn't do without it,so it's hard to fault them for doing business as they do.

          As with me, it seems this was just a bad match for us, too bad we could have seen it coming before putting the money out. I do not fault the pricing, I fault the product itself, and the lack of transparency upon which I could have made a better educated decision at the start. NOT to buy it.

          Andras


          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Luca Vascon <luca.vascon@...> wrote:
          >
          > I'm writing this more with my heart than with my brain, so take it as it
          > is...
          >
          > I was wandering around Kolor website. I had news from friends that were in
          > iceland that Panotour Pro 2.0 was coming out, and giving finally a
          > good-and-clean krpano xml output.
          > I had a project this spring that needed some virtualtours to be realized.
          > I have to say, to make things clear, that I know how to code in KRpano, and
          > I usually do that. I realize the whole things from scratches. I decided to
          > put the money together and to buy Panotour pro, just to put together the
          > things more easily, to save some time, and use the code it generates as
          > base for the final tours.
          > Ok, our output are usually made-to-measure things, so, our interfaces, ways
          > of interact, graphics, are made to fullfill the actual needs of the
          > customer.
          > We do not change "skins", we project interfaces
          > It ended up that the Panotour Pro is aimed for ready-made tours, and the
          > code it pops out is a mess. All the resulting virtual tour will have the
          > panotourpro inprinting, whoever will recognize bounduaries and presets,
          > schemes and patterns... Ok, I agree, it is not possible to make it
          > differently with a software.
          > Well... in terms of xml?! Even the placing of elements in the map is
          > something I'd prefer doing by hand. I could not make any use of Panotour
          > Pro, at the end. XML usage is kinda messy and out of my standards (that
          > are copy of Klaus KRpano examples), completely.
          > Using KRPano with its own tools is, for me, faster, less complicate etc.
          > Ok, Panotour Pro stays on the drower, hoping next version will give me some
          > reason to use it.
          > Now I do not know if next version will be the thing I'll be looking for,
          > but since the upgrade policy, and the rising price, it will be for the same
          > price I gave for the version 1.8 just less than 60 days ago (I had KRpano,
          > so I could use it as discount token)...
          > Ok, I already did my idiocy. I bought a software I'll never have reason to
          > use (the xml output is a real mess, it is disabled in the evaluation copy).
          > My heart feeling, now, is that I won't upgrade. Even if it gives me a good
          > code, in which I'll for sure have to put hours more to get things my own
          > way, and I will not be able to see it if not thank to somebody who bought
          > it... it will not justify that price tag.
          > Said that, I do not think I can resell my licence (with KRpano discount
          > etc) and I only throw my money out of the window...
          >
          > I'd add... buy KRpano licence itself, and learn how to code!
          > That is the core! the most fantastic panoramic display softtware EVER, and
          > it is so damm cheap! with no upgrade policies or surprises, till now. Ok,
          > average upgrade is every 4-6 months, with GREAT plus and functionalities...
          >
          > :-)
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          > Luca Vascon.
          > --
          > www.lucavascon.net
          > www.officinepanottiche.com
          > www.nuovostudio.it
          >
        • Luca Vascon
          Agree Andras... LOTS of virtual tours? Can I work with you?! here in Italy I have lot of difficulties, uneducated customers, who do want work for free and are
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 28, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Agree Andras...
            LOTS of virtual tours? Can I work with you?! here in Italy I have lot of difficulties, uneducated customers, who do want work for free and are not able to appreciate quality, or more often do not know or are interested in panoramic pictures at all.

            Agree Jurgen too!
            It is one of the best choices, if not THE best if you want to be able to make a vtour out of the box. I'd say that what I dislike is the steppy increasing price, that will affect current users who will have no other choice than upgrade (Krpano, the real engine behind it, is proceding in large steps, addressing new issues and stuff).

            Taking pictures and showing them are two sides of the same coin. The value of what you do is so often connected in the balance of the two thing. If you want to take control you have to master both. "whoever is able to take pictures, it is just a click" is customers point... there are a lot of idiot newbies out there that use automated workflow to get what they call "3D pictures" or "streetviews" or "you know, that thing that google does" :-)
            ...And we were doing before Apple did QTVRAS, or Google knew the existence of panoramas. 
            We started to sell " a little" this year, after we were showing high-interaction (hard coded ) things. They do not percieve quality, they are hardly admitting any difference between an automated streetview and an high-def, well done 360, but can't compare our high-interaction things with anything else.



            2013/6/28 afrenyo <andras@...>
            Hey Luca,

            I feel the same way.  When I saw the xml, and realized its shortcominfs, I wanted to return it, Within the firs couple of days, but, of course that was not possible - never used it.

            And I sold an awful lotta tours in this time.   None could I use the software for, this was clear to me right away, once I could see beyond its demo abilities.

            It's not a tool for someone who knows what they are doing, and want to just speed some part of the process up at times.  It takes away reasonable control of your project through its messy , unoptimized code.  Add the ironic difficulty with which you might wanna enable your tour with _current_  krpano features (i.e. improved, not even the added ones), which they simply don't keep up with . . . .

            It was  a waste of money for me, but there are plenty of people who couldn't do without it,so  it's hard to fault them for doing business as they do.

            As with me, it seems this was just a bad match for us, too bad we could have seen it coming before putting the money out.  I do not fault the pricing, I fault the product itself, and the lack of transparency upon which I could have made a better educated decision at the start.  NOT to buy it.

            Andras


            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Luca Vascon <luca.vascon@...> wrote:
            >
            > I'm writing this more with my heart than with my brain, so take it as it
            > is...
            >
            > I was wandering around Kolor website. I had news from friends that were in
            > iceland that Panotour Pro 2.0 was coming out, and giving finally a
            > good-and-clean krpano xml output.
            > I had a project this spring that needed some virtualtours to be realized.
            > I have to say, to make things clear, that I know how to code in KRpano, and
            > I usually do that. I realize the whole things from scratches. I decided to
            > put the money together and to buy Panotour pro, just to put together the
            > things more easily, to save some time, and use the code it generates as
            > base for the final tours.
            > Ok, our output are usually made-to-measure things, so, our interfaces, ways
            > of interact, graphics, are made to fullfill the actual needs of the
            > customer.
            > We do not change "skins", we project interfaces
            > It ended up that the Panotour Pro is aimed for ready-made tours, and the
            > code it pops out is a mess. All the resulting virtual tour will have the
            > panotourpro inprinting, whoever will recognize bounduaries and presets,
            > schemes and patterns... Ok, I agree, it is not possible to make it
            > differently with a software.
            > Well... in terms of xml?! Even the placing of elements in the map is
            > something I'd prefer doing by hand. I could not make any use of Panotour
            > Pro, at the end. XML usage is kinda messy and out  of my standards (that
            > are copy of Klaus KRpano examples), completely.
            > Using KRPano with its own tools is, for me, faster, less complicate etc.
            > Ok, Panotour Pro stays on the drower, hoping next version will give me some
            > reason to use it.
            > Now I do not know if next version will be the thing I'll be looking for,
            > but since the upgrade policy, and the rising price, it will be for the same
            > price I gave for the version 1.8 just less than 60 days ago (I had KRpano,
            > so I could use it as discount token)...
            > Ok, I already did my idiocy. I bought a software I'll never have reason to
            > use (the xml output is a real mess, it is disabled in the evaluation copy).
            > My heart feeling, now, is that I won't upgrade. Even if it gives me a good
            > code, in which I'll for sure have to put hours more to get things my own
            > way, and I will not be able to see it if not thank to somebody who bought
            > it... it will not justify that price tag.
            > Said that, I do not think I can resell my licence (with KRpano discount
            > etc) and I only throw my money out of the window...
            >
            > I'd add... buy KRpano licence itself, and learn how to code!
            > That is the core! the most fantastic panoramic display softtware EVER, and
            > it is so damm cheap! with no upgrade policies or surprises, till now. Ok,
            > average upgrade is every 4-6 months, with GREAT plus and functionalities...
            >
            > :-)
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            > Luca Vascon.
            > --
            > www.lucavascon.net
            > www.officinepanottiche.com
            > www.nuovostudio.it
            >



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            --
            Luca Vascon.
            --
            Questa è la mia mail privata, la guardo di tanto in tanto.
            Se volete parlarmi di lavoro, contattatemi attraverso i siti qui sotto.
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