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14bit raw video from Canon 5d II/III

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  • panovrx
    As has been in the news lately the Magic Lantern developers have managed to get raw video from Canon DSLRs. For panorama makers this has a lot of potential for
    Message 1 of 11 , May 15, 2013
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      As has been in the news lately the Magic Lantern developers have managed to get raw video from Canon DSLRs. For panorama makers this has a lot of potential for video capture of panoramas as you have a lot more dynamic range, and you are not shortening your shutter life if you want to shoot thousands of panoramas (though it might kill your camera otherwise).

      You need fast cards to capture in the highest resolutions. I can get 24 fps at 1920 by 720 without dropping frames on my 5DmkIII but full 1080p HD is possible with more recent versions I think (this is with a 1000x CF card). You can choose custom croppings that give you eg. 1380 by 1280 pixel captures -- good for say getting most of a 10.5mm Nikkor on FF image circles. Or you can use very narrow formats eg. 360 by 1080 with higher frame rates.

      The DNGs you get (after processing the raw captures files) look and behave exactly like regular raw still images from Canon -- with all the color correction etc capabilities. I have been using Bridge to process the DNGs. The data rate is large with large file croppings -- like 15minutes on a 64Gb CF card -- though this would be not such a concern for pano makers probably

      PeterM
    • jimbo
      Peter, If your looking at video capture.. consider looking into an Atomos Ninja also.. I m not intimate with their use with a Canon except to say that they
      Message 2 of 11 , May 15, 2013
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        Peter,
        If your looking at video capture.. consider looking into an Atomos Ninja also.. I'm not intimate with their use with a Canon  except to say that they are being used widely with Canon DSLR's. I am with the D800's & D4's ..We are shooting uncompressed video directly into the Ninja bypassing the internal cards..What this also means is that were shooting directly into SSD's,  so size is not an issue anymore. The SSD's are getting fairly cost effective now and work excellant with video capture. The Ninja has a seperate viewing screen and provides many of the video options not presently availble for DSLR's.. The 5dmIII will capture 30fps at 1080P.. Canon released a model (EOS-1D C   last year that shoots 4k video.. (4096 x 2160) presently @ 24FPS.. which is quite a bit more then 1080P.. (1920 x 1080)... actually double +..
         
        jimbo ----- Original Message -----
        From: panovrx
        Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 4:56 PM
        Subject: [PanoToolsNG] 14bit raw video from Canon 5d II/III

         

        As has been in the news lately the Magic Lantern developers have managed to get raw video from Canon DSLRs. For panorama makers this has a lot of potential for video capture of panoramas as you have a lot more dynamic range, and you are not shortening your shutter life if you want to shoot thousands of panoramas (though it might kill your camera otherwise).

        You need fast cards to capture in the highest resolutions. I can get 24 fps at 1920 by 720 without dropping frames on my 5DmkIII but full 1080p HD is possible with more recent versions I think (this is with a 1000x CF card). You can choose custom croppings that give you eg. 1380 by 1280 pixel captures -- good for say getting most of a 10.5mm Nikkor on FF image circles. Or you can use very narrow formats eg. 360 by 1080 with higher frame rates.

        The DNGs you get (after processing the raw captures files) look and behave exactly like regular raw still images from Canon -- with all the color correction etc capabilities. I have been using Bridge to process the DNGs. The data rate is large with large file croppings -- like 15minutes on a 64Gb CF card -- though this would be not such a concern for pano makers probably

        PeterM

        No virus found in this message.
        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        Version: 2013.0.3336 / Virus Database: 3162/6325 - Release Date: 05/15/13

      • panovrx
        Yes but HDMI capture just gives you less compression, not raw dynamic range or raw color correction capability. HDMI capture is like going from jpg at Low
        Message 3 of 11 , May 15, 2013
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          Yes but HDMI capture just gives you less compression, not raw dynamic range or raw color correction capability. HDMI capture is like going from jpg at Low Quality to jpg at Maximum quality. Whereas raw capture is like going from jpg at Low Quality to Raw. There are some artifacts associated with the Raw capture currently but compared to the regular video quality it is a vast improvement
          eg
          http://vimeo.com/66203064

          PeterM


          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "jimbo" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:
          >
          > Peter,
          > If your looking at video capture.. consider looking into an Atomos Ninja also.. I'm not intimate with their use with a Canon except to say that they are being used widely with Canon DSLR's. I am with the D800's & D4's ..We are shooting uncompressed video directly into the Ninja bypassing the internal cards..What this also means is that were shooting directly into SSD's, so size is not an issue anymore. The SSD's are getting fairly cost effective now and work excellant with video capture. The Ninja has a seperate viewing screen and provides many of the video options not presently availble for DSLR's.. The 5dmIII will capture 30fps at 1080P.. Canon released a model (EOS-1D C last year that shoots 4k video.. (4096 x 2160) presently @ 24FPS.. which is quite a bit more then 1080P.. (1920 x 1080)... actually double +..
          >
          > jimbo ----- Original Message -----
          > From: panovrx
          > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 4:56 PM
          > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] 14bit raw video from Canon 5d II/III
          >
          >
          >
          > As has been in the news lately the Magic Lantern developers have managed to get raw video from Canon DSLRs. For panorama makers this has a lot of potential for video capture of panoramas as you have a lot more dynamic range, and you are not shortening your shutter life if you want to shoot thousands of panoramas (though it might kill your camera otherwise).
          >
          > You need fast cards to capture in the highest resolutions. I can get 24 fps at 1920 by 720 without dropping frames on my 5DmkIII but full 1080p HD is possible with more recent versions I think (this is with a 1000x CF card). You can choose custom croppings that give you eg. 1380 by 1280 pixel captures -- good for say getting most of a 10.5mm Nikkor on FF image circles. Or you can use very narrow formats eg. 360 by 1080 with higher frame rates.
          >
          > The DNGs you get (after processing the raw captures files) look and behave exactly like regular raw still images from Canon -- with all the color correction etc capabilities. I have been using Bridge to process the DNGs. The data rate is large with large file croppings -- like 15minutes on a 64Gb CF card -- though this would be not such a concern for pano makers probably
          >
          > PeterM
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > No virus found in this message.
          > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
          > Version: 2013.0.3336 / Virus Database: 3162/6325 - Release Date: 05/15/13
          >
        • jimbo
          Hi again Peter.. You are correct.. 14 bit Raw , I agree, would certainly be an incredible improvement over what technology is currently available. and yes from
          Message 4 of 11 , May 15, 2013
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            Hi again Peter..
            You are correct.. 14 bit Raw , I agree, would certainly be an incredible improvement over what technology is currently available. and yes from an adjustment standpoint it would be great.. I think, like you possibly, I see video as the next frontier. I mean it's been around for some time but it is really advancing to and I feel it will open new doors with other uses.. I mentioned the Atomos Ninja  only in the event you weren't familiar with them.. Atomos has other similar products also .. Canon has released a new version of their firmware 1.2.1 which allows uncompressed HDMI video capture and it works with the Ninja-2.. I would think that were not that far away from seeing some incredible video potential.. Anyway with Magic Lanterns version of the firmware you still should be able to record directly to a Ninja which uses SSD's as the recording media.. I have a couple 480GB Sandisk Extremes and these were well under 400.00 ea.. Recently I bought a few 240GB Sandisk SSD's on sale thru Amazon for 159.00 each.. 
             
            Anyway, in the event your not familiar with video implementations .. presently their are three specs beyond 1080P that could be achievable on a DSLR..  4k , 5k and 8K ...... 4k is 4096 x 2160, 5k is 5120 x 2700 & 8k is 8192 x4320.. It's worth keeping an eye on the development of these.. I think outfits to keep an eye on are of course both Canon & Nikon (Canon is clearly superior and Nikon is a late comer but it appears they are now taking video seriously or at least trying to) . Atomos is securely tied to the development of video technology being developed by Canon , Nikon and Red.. and of course Magic Lantern. I try to keep current on what Red is up to as it just help in an understanding of the barriers that High Resolution faces.. Writing the data is a huge issue.. both Atomos and Red work hard raising the bar there.. 
             
            Our DLSR's are not designed nor packaged to process data at the rates required.. The barrier is the often the camera buffer..  I look to see Atomos and or Red develop a small compact Stripped raid solution with a few SSD's to overcome this issue.. It's actually sort of exciting to watch all the changing going on.. but also kind of scary too. 
             
            A while back I had the opportunity to view a time lapse video done in 8k.. I will honesty say I was literally blown away.. even now as I recall it.. it  is still unbelievable to me.. That  seems to be where it's headed..
             
            Lastly is their any software out there now that can deal with 14 bit raw video???
             
            jimbo
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: panovrx
            Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 9:22 PM
            Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: 14bit raw video from Canon 5d II/III

             

            Yes but HDMI capture just gives you less compression, not raw dynamic range or raw color correction capability. HDMI capture is like going from jpg at Low Quality to jpg at Maximum quality. Whereas raw capture is like going from jpg at Low Quality to Raw. There are some artifacts associated with the Raw capture currently but compared to the regular video quality it is a vast improvement
            eg
            http://vimeo.com/66203064

            PeterM

            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "jimbo" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:
            >
            > Peter,
            > If your looking at video capture.. consider looking into an Atomos Ninja also.. I'm not intimate with their use with a Canon except to say that they are being used widely with Canon DSLR's. I am with the D800's & D4's ..We are shooting uncompressed video directly into the Ninja bypassing the internal cards..What this also means is that were shooting directly into SSD's, so size is not an issue anymore. The SSD's are getting fairly cost effective now and work excellant with video capture. The Ninja has a seperate viewing screen and provides many of the video options not presently availble for DSLR's.. The 5dmIII will capture 30fps at 1080P.. Canon released a model (EOS-1D C last year that shoots 4k video.. (4096 x 2160) presently @ 24FPS.. which is quite a bit more then 1080P.. (1920 x 1080)... actually double +..
            >
            > jimbo ----- Original Message -----
            > From: panovrx
            > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 4:56 PM
            > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] 14bit raw video from Canon 5d II/III
            >
            >
            >
            > As has been in the news lately the Magic Lantern developers have managed to get raw video from Canon DSLRs. For panorama makers this has a lot of potential for video capture of panoramas as you have a lot more dynamic range, and you are not shortening your shutter life if you want to shoot thousands of panoramas (though it might kill your camera otherwise).
            >
            > You need fast cards to capture in the highest resolutions. I can get 24 fps at 1920 by 720 without dropping frames on my 5DmkIII but full 1080p HD is possible with more recent versions I think (this is with a 1000x CF card). You can choose custom croppings that give you eg. 1380 by 1280 pixel captures -- good for say getting most of a 10.5mm Nikkor on FF image circles. Or you can use very narrow formats eg. 360 by 1080 with higher frame rates.
            >
            > The DNGs you get (after processing the raw captures files) look and behave exactly like regular raw still images from Canon -- with all the color correction etc capabilities. I have been using Bridge to process the DNGs. The data rate is large with large file croppings -- like 15minutes on a 64Gb CF card -- though this would be not such a concern for pano makers probably
            >
            > PeterM
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > No virus found in this message.
            > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
            > Version: 2013.0.3336 / Virus Database: 3162/6325 - Release Date: 05/15/13
            >

            No virus found in this message.
            Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
            Version: 2013.0.3336 / Virus Database: 3162/6327 - Release Date: 05/15/13

          • panovrx
            Here is an example video with a 10.5mm Nikkor at f2.8 1/30th on a 5DmkIII at 1280ISO http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwuSb2uur0Q If you want to try this I think
            Message 5 of 11 , May 17, 2013
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              Here is an example video with a 10.5mm Nikkor at f2.8 1/30th on a 5DmkIII at 1280ISO
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwuSb2uur0Q

              If you want to try this I think these are the best instructions so far
              http://www.eoshd.com/content/10352/easier-5d-mark-iii-raw-guide-in-4-steps

              You need 1000X CF cards for fast frame rates/high resolutions

              I processed the DNG files with Bridge


              Warning: may destroy your camera!

              PeterM
            • panovrx
              There are a couple of features of the Magic Lantern raw-capable firmware versions of particular relevance to panoramists. In the interface you can specify the
              Message 6 of 11 , May 21, 2013
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                There are a couple of features of the Magic Lantern raw-capable firmware versions of particular relevance to panoramists. In the interface you can specify the dimensions of the captured sensor area to a certain extent. eg. You can choose a horizontal resolution of 1920 and a vertical resolution of say 360. This gives you much greater frame rate choice as the data rate is now much less (or you can use slow cards). So with the camera in vertical orientation you can shoot lots of panoramas in raw without too much data or at very high frame rates.

                Also there is a "panning mode" option. This enables you to choose a resolution -- say 360H 1280V -- and then use the "multi-controller" Canon button to move the capture window to the left or right of frame. So you can capture horizontally offset areas of the sensor. And you can use the multicontroller to move the area during the shot giving you in-camera pans.

                Being able to have offset capture areas is good for slice assembly single camera stereo panorama capture scenarios too. Even better for this would be to be able to specify dual vertically adjustable slice areas.

                PeterM

                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <mediavr@...> wrote:
                >
                > Here is an example video with a 10.5mm Nikkor at f2.8 1/30th on a 5DmkIII at 1280ISO
                > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwuSb2uur0Q
                >
                > If you want to try this I think these are the best instructions so far
                > http://www.eoshd.com/content/10352/easier-5d-mark-iii-raw-guide-in-4-steps
                >
                > You need 1000X CF cards for fast frame rates/high resolutions
                >
                > I processed the DNG files with Bridge
                >
                >
                > Warning: may destroy your camera!
                >
                > PeterM
                >
              • Daniel Reetz
                Thanks, PeterM - with respect to the high frame rate modes, is there a table somewhere that shows the possible rates/resolutions? ... -- Daniel Reetz
                Message 7 of 11 , May 23, 2013
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                  Thanks, PeterM - with respect to the high frame rate modes, is there a table somewhere that shows the possible rates/resolutions?


                  On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 3:28 PM, panovrx <mediavr@...> wrote:
                   

                  There are a couple of features of the Magic Lantern raw-capable firmware versions of particular relevance to panoramists. In the interface you can specify the dimensions of the captured sensor area to a certain extent. eg. You can choose a horizontal resolution of 1920 and a vertical resolution of say 360. This gives you much greater frame rate choice as the data rate is now much less (or you can use slow cards). So with the camera in vertical orientation you can shoot lots of panoramas in raw without too much data or at very high frame rates.

                  Also there is a "panning mode" option. This enables you to choose a resolution -- say 360H 1280V -- and then use the "multi-controller" Canon button to move the capture window to the left or right of frame. So you can capture horizontally offset areas of the sensor. And you can use the multicontroller to move the area during the shot giving you in-camera pans.

                  Being able to have offset capture areas is good for slice assembly single camera stereo panorama capture scenarios too. Even better for this would be to be able to specify dual vertically adjustable slice areas.

                  PeterM



                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <mediavr@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Here is an example video with a 10.5mm Nikkor at f2.8 1/30th on a 5DmkIII at 1280ISO
                  > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwuSb2uur0Q
                  >
                  > If you want to try this I think these are the best instructions so far
                  > http://www.eoshd.com/content/10352/easier-5d-mark-iii-raw-guide-in-4-steps
                  >
                  > You need 1000X CF cards for fast frame rates/high resolutions
                  >
                  > I processed the DNG files with Bridge
                  >
                  >
                  > Warning: may destroy your camera!
                  >
                  > PeterM
                  >




                  --
                  Daniel Reetz

                   
                • panovrx
                  There are two video modes -- normal and magnified (5X or 10X). http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5441.0 Magnified gives you more resolutions but
                  Message 8 of 11 , May 23, 2013
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                    There are two video modes -- normal and magnified (5X or 10X).
                    http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5441.0

                    Magnified gives you more resolutions but Liveview display when recording is not accurate. In magnified mode you can get the full H width of the sensor (5760 pixels) with small V resolutions. I havent tested this much.

                    Magnified mode Raws are sharper than regular raws (not rescaled, exactly like sections of full size raw stills).
                    http://www.slashcam.de/tools/ml-raw-calc.html
                    http://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Tips/Magic-Lantern-Canon-RAW-FAQ---Teil-2-RAW-Crop-Kalkulationen--Was-ist-1-1-Crop-RAW--63-.html

                    with more recent ML versions your card is tested as the camera starts and you have color coded text showing data rates, and indicating (by the colors as well has the text content) if you are dropping frames.

                    PeterM

                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Reetz <danreetz@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Thanks, PeterM - with respect to the high frame rate modes, is there a
                    > table somewhere that shows the possible rates/resolutions?
                    >
                    >
                    > On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 3:28 PM, panovrx <mediavr@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > **
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > There are a couple of features of the Magic Lantern raw-capable firmware
                    > > versions of particular relevance to panoramists. In the interface you can
                    > > specify the dimensions of the captured sensor area to a certain extent. eg.
                    > > You can choose a horizontal resolution of 1920 and a vertical resolution of
                    > > say 360. This gives you much greater frame rate choice as the data rate is
                    > > now much less (or you can use slow cards). So with the camera in vertical
                    > > orientation you can shoot lots of panoramas in raw without too much data or
                    > > at very high frame rates.
                    > >
                    > > Also there is a "panning mode" option. This enables you to choose a
                    > > resolution -- say 360H 1280V -- and then use the "multi-controller" Canon
                    > > button to move the capture window to the left or right of frame. So you can
                    > > capture horizontally offset areas of the sensor. And you can use the
                    > > multicontroller to move the area during the shot giving you in-camera pans.
                    > >
                    > > Being able to have offset capture areas is good for slice assembly single
                    > > camera stereo panorama capture scenarios too. Even better for this would be
                    > > to be able to specify dual vertically adjustable slice areas.
                    > >
                    > > PeterM
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <mediavr@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Here is an example video with a 10.5mm Nikkor at f2.8 1/30th on a
                    > > 5DmkIII at 1280ISO
                    > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwuSb2uur0Q
                    > > >
                    > > > If you want to try this I think these are the best instructions so far
                    > > >
                    > > http://www.eoshd.com/content/10352/easier-5d-mark-iii-raw-guide-in-4-steps
                    > > >
                    > > > You need 1000X CF cards for fast frame rates/high resolutions
                    > > >
                    > > > I processed the DNG files with Bridge
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Warning: may destroy your camera!
                    > > >
                    > > > PeterM
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Daniel Reetz
                    > www.danreetz.com
                    >
                  • panovrx
                    Magic Lantern has a realtime dewarping preview option too for fisheye users. This is currently set for a Samyang 8mm on aps-c DSLRs I think, but it works well
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jun 7, 2013
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                      Magic Lantern has a realtime dewarping preview option too for fisheye users.

                      This is currently set for a Samyang 8mm on aps-c DSLRs I think, but it works well with a 10.5mm Nikkor on full frame, or a Canon 8-15mm at about 10.5mm too. There are two dewarping options -- rectilinear or Panini. It works really well. The frame rate of the camera display (5DmKIII) is almost as fast as normal and the corrections look accurate. It is an extremely handy feature for shooting video or stills that you anticipate being rendered as rectilinear or Panini (or stereographic or equi, or cylindrical) video or stills. The camera just renders the display not the saved movie (stills).

                      Both preview options make it much easier to level shots handheld while monitoring the display than using the normal uncorrected preview.

                      This previewing feature works with Raw capture too.

                      You can compile the source I think to calibrate the correction for different lenses.

                      http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Fisheye_Support

                      PeterM



                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <mediavr@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Here is an example video with a 10.5mm Nikkor at f2.8 1/30th on a 5DmkIII at 1280ISO
                      > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwuSb2uur0Q
                      >
                      > If you want to try this I think these are the best instructions so far
                      > http://www.eoshd.com/content/10352/easier-5d-mark-iii-raw-guide-in-4-steps
                      >
                      > You need 1000X CF cards for fast frame rates/high resolutions
                      >
                      > I processed the DNG files with Bridge
                      >
                      >
                    • Erik Krause
                      ... It s not actually necessary to compile the source but to create a .lut (look-up table) file: http://wiki.magiclantern.fm/userguide?s[]=fisheye#defishing --
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jun 8, 2013
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                        Am 08.06.2013 00:44, schrieb panovrx:

                        > You can compile the source I think to calibrate the correction for different lenses.

                        It's not actually necessary to compile the source but to create a .lut
                        (look-up table) file:
                        http://wiki.magiclantern.fm/userguide?s[]=fisheye#defishing

                        --
                        Erik Krause
                        http://www.erik-krause.de
                      • panovrx
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRjd7iO7drM&hd=1 here is a Mercator perspective video shot handheld using the Panini preview option -- 10mm on 8-15 canon
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jun 8, 2013
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                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRjd7iO7drM&hd=1

                          here is a Mercator perspective video shot handheld using the Panini preview option -- 10mm on 8-15 canon

                          PeterM
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