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Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: I miss Superrune!

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  • Roger D Williams
    Thank you, Mark. I am rather overwhelmed by the help I am getting with this problem I have run into. Today is cold, rainy and windy here in Tokyo and my wife
    Message 1 of 24 , Apr 2 9:42 PM
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      Thank you, Mark. I am rather overwhelmed by the help I am getting with this problem I have run into. Today is cold, rainy and windy here in Tokyo and my wife said "Don't even STEP outside," so I will be at home watching videos and reading PDFs, etc., as recommended.

      I found the video tutorial on nadir patching at the Pano2VR site but I am so deaf I couldn't follow the fast and chirpy commentary and got dizzy following the cursor leaping from one unfamiliar pull-down menu to another. I tried using the freeze frame control, but this further fragmented the commentary so I understood even less of it.

      Hope I can follow yours!

      Roger W

      Sent from my iPad

      On Apr 2, 2013, at 9:16 PM, "Mark D. Fink" <markdfink@...> wrote:

      > Hi Roger,
      >
      > I put together two videos on nadir patching and stitching. Patching is for
      > those times when you didn't shoot a nadir, and stitching is when you did
      > shoot the nadir.
      >
      > Patching: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owq7kaXMTTk
      >
      > Stitching: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trYQ61_bOb0
      >
      > If anyone is interested, I can send along the PTGui templates that I use. I
      > have separate ones for the different image sizes that I typically shoot.
      >
      > Hope this helps!
      >
      > Mark
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
      > Behalf Of Roger D Williams
      > Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 6:49 AM
      > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: I miss Superrune!
      >
      > Thanks! Found it and proved that it works...
      >
      > Roger
      >
      > Sent from my iPad
      >
      > On Apr 2, 2013, at 7:11 PM, "John Houghton" <j.houghton@...> wrote:
      >
      >> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Roger D Williams <roger@...> wrote:
      >>>
      >>> Thanks, John, but there's a problem with the GIF,
      >>
      >> Roger, Try this instead: http://www.johnhpanos.com/cubes.gif
      >>
      >> John
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> ------------------------------------
      >>
      >> --
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > --
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > --
      >
      >
      >
    • Roger D Williams
      Thank you Erik. I don t have a template folder but I will (for the VERY FIRST TIME) save a template from a recent panorama and assume that the appropriate
      Message 2 of 24 , Apr 2 9:49 PM
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        Thank you Erik. I don't have a template folder but I will (for the VERY FIRST TIME) save a template from a recent panorama and assume that the appropriate folder will be created in the right place for me to put your templates....

        Roger

        Sent from my iPad

        On Apr 3, 2013, at 2:33 AM, Erik Krause <erik.krause@...> wrote:

        > Am 02.04.2013 10:26, schrieb Roger D Williams:
        >> Although I have been using PTgui since v2.0 I must confess I only use
        >> the bits I know and have never come to a good overall understanding
        >> of the program's more opaque functions and features
        >
        > Download my PTGui templates from
        > http://erik-krause.de/ttt/#Bodenbild_extrahieren
        > put them in your templates folder and follow the instructions.
        >
        > --
        > Erik Krause
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > --
        >
        >
        >
      • Roger D Williams
        Thanks, Mark. I found these clear and well-paced. In fact I have often made successful use of the perspective changing approach to nadir stitching, but when
        Message 3 of 24 , Apr 2 10:21 PM
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          Thanks, Mark. I found these clear and well-paced. In fact I have often made successful use of the perspective changing approach to nadir stitching, but when you have a far-from-flat floor it doesn't work, and of course there are a number of "gotchas" along the way to success, and I must have encountered most of them.

          I am not at all familiar with PS actions and how to create them, so will spend my time trying to follow the first video.

          Roger

          Sent from my iPad

          On Apr 2, 2013, at 9:16 PM, "Mark D. Fink" <markdfink@...> wrote:

          > Hi Roger,
          >
          > I put together two videos on nadir patching and stitching. Patching is for
          > those times when you didn't shoot a nadir, and stitching is when you did
          > shoot the nadir.
          >
          > Patching: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owq7kaXMTTk
          >
          > Stitching: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trYQ61_bOb0
          >
          > If anyone is interested, I can send along the PTGui templates that I use. I
          > have separate ones for the different image sizes that I typically shoot.
          >
          > Hope this helps!
          >
          > Mark
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
          > Behalf Of Roger D Williams
          > Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 6:49 AM
          > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: I miss Superrune!
          >
          > Thanks! Found it and proved that it works...
          >
          > Roger
          >
          > Sent from my iPad
          >
          > On Apr 2, 2013, at 7:11 PM, "John Houghton" <j.houghton@...> wrote:
          >
          >> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Roger D Williams <roger@...> wrote:
          >>>
          >>> Thanks, John, but there's a problem with the GIF,
          >>
          >> Roger, Try this instead: http://www.johnhpanos.com/cubes.gif
          >>
          >> John
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> ------------------------------------
          >>
          >> --
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > --
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > --
          >
          >
          >
        • pedro_silva58
          hi roger! i m not sure the following helps, but i hope so: http://www.ptgui.com/support.html#2_13 In Tools/Options/Folders&Files, a folder can be configured
          Message 4 of 24 , Apr 2 10:32 PM
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            hi roger!

            i'm not sure the following helps, but i hope so:

            http://www.ptgui.com/support.html#2_13
            In Tools/Options/Folders&Files, a folder can be configured where you store your templates (on Mac go to the PTGui menu, Preferences, Folders&Files). Then, the template selection dialog will by default open in this folder. There's a little triangle button next to the 'Apply Template' button on the toolbar, which shows a drop down list of all templates in the configured template directory, for quick access.

            cheers,
            pedro

            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Roger D Williams <roger@...> wrote:
            >
            > Thank you Erik. I don't have a template folder but I will (for the VERY FIRST TIME) save a template from a recent panorama and assume that the appropriate folder will be created in the right place for me to put your templates....
            >
            > Roger
            >
            > Sent from my iPad
            >
            > On Apr 3, 2013, at 2:33 AM, Erik Krause <erik.krause@...> wrote:
            >
            > > Am 02.04.2013 10:26, schrieb Roger D Williams:
            > >> Although I have been using PTgui since v2.0 I must confess I only use
            > >> the bits I know and have never come to a good overall understanding
            > >> of the program's more opaque functions and features
            > >
            > > Download my PTGui templates from
            > > http://erik-krause.de/ttt/#Bodenbild_extrahieren
            > > put them in your templates folder and follow the instructions.
            > >
            > > --
            > > Erik Krause
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------
            > >
            > > --
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
          • Roger D Williams
            It was very helpful. Now I can be sure of getting things to work properly... Thanks! Roger W Sent from my iPad
            Message 5 of 24 , Apr 2 10:45 PM
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              It was very helpful. Now I can be sure of getting things to work properly... Thanks!

              Roger W

              Sent from my iPad

              On Apr 3, 2013, at 2:32 PM, "pedro_silva58" <pedro_silva58@...> wrote:

              > hi roger!
              >
              > i'm not sure the following helps, but i hope so:
              >
              > http://www.ptgui.com/support.html#2_13
              > In Tools/Options/Folders&Files, a folder can be configured where you store your templates (on Mac go to the PTGui menu, Preferences, Folders&Files). Then, the template selection dialog will by default open in this folder. There's a little triangle button next to the 'Apply Template' button on the toolbar, which shows a drop down list of all templates in the configured template directory, for quick access.
              >
              > cheers,
              > pedro
              >
              > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Roger D Williams <roger@...> wrote:
              >>
              >> Thank you Erik. I don't have a template folder but I will (for the VERY FIRST TIME) save a template from a recent panorama and assume that the appropriate folder will be created in the right place for me to put your templates....
              >>
              >> Roger
              >>
              >> Sent from my iPad
              >>
              >> On Apr 3, 2013, at 2:33 AM, Erik Krause <erik.krause@...> wrote:
              >>
              >>> Am 02.04.2013 10:26, schrieb Roger D Williams:
              >>>> Although I have been using PTgui since v2.0 I must confess I only use
              >>>> the bits I know and have never come to a good overall understanding
              >>>> of the program's more opaque functions and features
              >>>
              >>> Download my PTGui templates from
              >>> http://erik-krause.de/ttt/#Bodenbild_extrahieren
              >>> put them in your templates folder and follow the instructions.
              >>>
              >>> --
              >>> Erik Krause
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> ------------------------------------
              >>>
              >>> --
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > --
              >
              >
              >
            • Christian Bloch
              Hi Roger, You can get the exact same superrune behavior with Flexify in Photoshop. Equirect to zenith/nadir patch in the same image dimensions, side by side.
              Message 6 of 24 , Apr 2 11:30 PM
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                Hi Roger,

                You can get the exact same superrune behavior with Flexify in Photoshop. Equirect to zenith/nadir patch in the same image dimensions, side by side. And back. I recorded it as Photoshop Action once (including the make new layer), and now it's just a blind firing of the action. Not even the Flexify interface gets in the way anymore.

                Pano2VR has the PatchTool for exactly that purpose, so here you wouldn't need to do a full cubic conversion either.

                Both of these nadir patching workflows are described in full, with step-by-step tutorial and screenshots and example images in my HDRI Handbook 2.0. (pages 490 to 495).

                Cheers
                Blochi
              • Roger D Williams
                Thanks, Blochi. I have your HDR handbook and will see if I can follow your description of how to use the Pano2VR patch tool. The on-site video tutorial didn t
                Message 7 of 24 , Apr 3 2:05 AM
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                  Thanks, Blochi. I have your HDR handbook and will see if I can follow your description of how to use the Pano2VR patch tool. The on-site video tutorial didn't work for me. I doubt that a purchase of Flexify for this alone would worth it, but I'll find out what it costs before dismissing it.

                  Roger W

                  Sent from my iPad

                  On Apr 3, 2013, at 3:30 PM, Christian Bloch <Blochi@...> wrote:

                  > Hi Roger,
                  >
                  > You can get the exact same superrune behavior with Flexify in Photoshop. Equirect to zenith/nadir patch in the same image dimensions, side by side. And back. I recorded it as Photoshop Action once (including the make new layer), and now it's just a blind firing of the action. Not even the Flexify interface gets in the way anymore.
                  >
                  > Pano2VR has the PatchTool for exactly that purpose, so here you wouldn't need to do a full cubic conversion either.
                  >
                  > Both of these nadir patching workflows are described in full, with step-by-step tutorial and screenshots and example images in my HDRI Handbook 2.0. (pages 490 to 495).
                  >
                  > Cheers
                  > Blochi
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > --
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Roger D Williams
                  I see that Flexify is US$54, so for now I ll stick with my recently purchased upgrade of Pano2VR. I found your description of how to patch very clear, although
                  Message 8 of 24 , Apr 3 2:37 AM
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                    I see that Flexify is US$54, so for now I'll stick with my recently purchased upgrade of Pano2VR. I found your description of how to patch very clear, although you seem to have a lot more trust in content-aware fill than is justified by my limited experience. I must try it again, as it may have improved in the meantime.

                    Roger W

                    Sent from my iPad

                    On Apr 3, 2013, at 6:05 PM, Roger D Williams <roger@...> wrote:

                    > Thanks, Blochi. I have your HDR handbook and will see if I can follow your description of how to use the Pano2VR patch tool. The on-site video tutorial didn't work for me. I doubt that a purchase of Flexify for this alone would worth it, but I'll find out what it costs before dismissing it.
                    >
                    > Roger W
                    >
                    > Sent from my iPad
                    >
                    > On Apr 3, 2013, at 3:30 PM, Christian Bloch <Blochi@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >> Hi Roger,
                    >>
                    >> You can get the exact same superrune behavior with Flexify in Photoshop. Equirect to zenith/nadir patch in the same image dimensions, side by side. And back. I recorded it as Photoshop Action once (including the make new layer), and now it's just a blind firing of the action. Not even the Flexify interface gets in the way anymore.
                    >>
                    >> Pano2VR has the PatchTool for exactly that purpose, so here you wouldn't need to do a full cubic conversion either.
                    >>
                    >> Both of these nadir patching workflows are described in full, with step-by-step tutorial and screenshots and example images in my HDRI Handbook 2.0. (pages 490 to 495).
                    >>
                    >> Cheers
                    >> Blochi
                    >>
                    >> ------------------------------------
                    >>
                    >> --
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > --
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Luca Vascon
                    So, Roger, you are in a 6 plus 2 workflow. I do have a copy of the exact same lens, as you know my illness. I? must have them all. I also do have the 17-28mm
                    Message 9 of 24 , Apr 3 2:14 PM
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                      So, Roger, you are in a 6 plus 2 workflow.
                      I do have a copy of the exact same lens, as you know my illness. I? must have them all. I also do have the 17-28mm Pentax fisheye zoom..
                      I use it in Tokina version on Canon, so I do have some degrees less, due to the smaller Canon APSC sensor.
                      On all my 6+2 workflows, and I speak of workflows, because they are my pride and babies ( reason why I can take and stich whatever and in whatever number a day...) They are so even if they are handheld ( workflAws). I was saying... on thiskind of case I always try to take  the 6 pictures drum with a -15 degrees pitch, and have a smaller nadir, as small as the tripod indeed, or even less ( 15mm Sigma on full frame, 7.5 Sammy on Olympus Pen) so taking away the nadir is trivial.

                      With 10-17 you have some degree less. So you pitch a bit less than 15degrees and the hole remains a bit bigger.
                      Or you can switch to a 4+4 shots ( you may need a tripod, because you need the first drum  to be shot, let's say @-30 pitch, 0-90-180-270, but when you make the upper drum (keep it @+25 more than +30) you should start your 90 degrees steps from 45 and not from 8. You need a 8 clicks rotator.

                      Of course you can shoot 6 shots and 6 shots, with a total of 12, keeping your monopod system like it is, but you will also have too much overlap in zenit and nadir areas. Better make a template with maskings! ;-)

                      Here it is late and I'm stitching 5meter pole handheld interiors, so I hope it is all clear, if it is not, pleade feel free to ask as many times as you want, my friend!!




                      2013/4/3 Roger D Williams <roger@...>
                      I see that Flexify is US$54, so for now I'll stick with my recently purchased upgrade of Pano2VR. I found your description of how to patch very clear, although you seem to have a lot more trust in content-aware fill than is justified by my limited experience. I must try it again, as it may have improved in the meantime.

                      Roger W

                      Sent from my iPad

                      On Apr 3, 2013, at 6:05 PM, Roger D Williams <roger@...> wrote:

                      > Thanks, Blochi. I have your HDR handbook and will see if I can follow your description of how to use the Pano2VR patch tool. The on-site video tutorial didn't work for me. I doubt that a purchase of Flexify for this alone would worth it, but I'll find out what it costs before dismissing it.
                      >
                      > Roger W
                      >
                      > Sent from my iPad
                      >
                      > On Apr 3, 2013, at 3:30 PM, Christian Bloch <Blochi@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >> Hi Roger,
                      >>
                      >> You can get the exact same superrune behavior with Flexify in Photoshop. Equirect to zenith/nadir patch in the same image dimensions, side by side. And back. I recorded it as Photoshop Action once (including the make new layer), and now it's just a blind firing of the action. Not even the Flexify interface gets in the way anymore.
                      >>
                      >> Pano2VR has the PatchTool for exactly that purpose, so here you wouldn't need to do a full cubic conversion either.
                      >>
                      >> Both of these nadir patching workflows are described in full, with step-by-step tutorial and screenshots and example images in my HDRI Handbook 2.0. (pages 490 to 495).
                      >>
                      >> Cheers
                      >> Blochi
                      >>
                      >> ------------------------------------
                      >>
                      >> --
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > --
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      ------------------------------------

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                      --
                      Luca Vascon.
                      --
                      Questa è la mia mail privata, la guardo di tanto in tanto.
                      Se volete parlarmi di lavoro, contattatemi attraverso i siti qui sotto.
                    • Roger D. Williams
                      On Thu, 04 Apr 2013 06:14:58 +0900, Luca Vascon ... Yes, reluctantly. I really REALLY prefer the four around of a tilted 8mm fisheye
                      Message 10 of 24 , Apr 3 9:38 PM
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                        On Thu, 04 Apr 2013 06:14:58 +0900, Luca Vascon <luca.vascon@...> wrote:

                        So, Roger, you are in a 6 plus 2 workflow.

                        Yes, reluctantly. I really REALLY prefer the four around of a tilted 8mm fisheye like the Sigma on a full, i.e., non-Canon, SPS-C sensor. (Sigh) And I will never get rid of my Peleng.

                        I do have a copy of the exact same lens, as you know my illness. I? must have them all. I also do have the 17-28mm Pentax fisheye zoom..
                        I use it in Tokina version on Canon, so I do have some degrees less, due to the smaller Canon APSC sensor.
                        On all my 6+2 workflows, and I speak of workflows, because they are my pride and babies ( reason why I can take and stich whatever and in whatever number a day...) They are so even if they are handheld ( workflAws). I was saying... on thiskind of case I always try to take  the 6 pictures drum with a -15 degrees pitch, and have a smaller nadir, as small as the tripod indeed, or even less ( 15mm Sigma on full frame, 7.5 Sammy on Olympus Pen) so taking away the nadir is trivial.

                        Aha. That is helpful. I will try -10 or -12.5 degrees and see how that works out.

                        With 10-17 you have some degree less. So you pitch a bit less than 15degrees and the hole remains a bit bigger.
                        Or you can switch to a 4+4 shots ( you may need a tripod, because you need the first drum  to be shot, let's say @-30 pitch, 0-90-180-270, but when you make the upper drum (keep it @+25 more than +30) you should start your 90 degrees steps from 45 and not from 8. You need a 8 clicks rotator.

                        You may remember I told the list that I would be beta testing a camera rotator that appeared on Kickstarter? There have been various delays with design and manufacturing changes (I believe they are significant improvements well worth waiting for) that were made possible by the multiple over-funding. The much-delayed launch of manufacturing prototypes, which I expect to be beta testing, is scheduled for early next month. The small units, not much larger than a mechanical rotator, can be programmed using iOS and/or Android apps, and two of them can be used together to offer synchronized or successive pan AND tilt functions! You put the camera on a bracket that places the NPP at the center of rotation of one device, and then use another bracket to mount this device on a second device. One turns the camera around, the other points it up or down. It provides a really cool way of taking, say, six around, alternately pointing up and down, or indeed any other combination. Of course this is in theory. That is why I will be beta testing!

                        Of course you can shoot 6 shots and 6 shots, with a total of 12, keeping your monopod system like it is, but you will also have too much overlap in zenit and nadir areas. Better make a template with maskings! ;-)

                        Here it is late and I'm stitching 5meter pole handheld interiors, so I hope it is all clear, if it is not, pleade feel free to ask as many times as you want, my friend!!

                        That is for the future. For now, I will simply take my panoramas with the camera pointing 10 degrees down and see (a) how small the nadir gets and (b) for large the zenith gets and (c) how much trouble I have filling the various sized holes.

                        I really appreciate your offer of help. Don't forget that I offered help with the final English editing of anything you might need in that area! I am now fully retired and have LOTS of time on my hands.

                        Roger


                        --
                        Business: www.adex-japan.com
                        Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
                        Panorama: Rogerama at photosynth.net
                      • Luca Vascon
                        ;-) WellI hope we will recieve together our robotic rotators!!! I plan to use them on the PEN camera. 2013/4/4 Roger D. Williams ... --
                        Message 11 of 24 , Apr 4 2:02 AM
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                          ;-)
                          WellI hope we will recieve together our robotic rotators!!!
                          I plan to use them on the PEN camera.



                          2013/4/4 Roger D. Williams <roger@...>
                          On Thu, 04 Apr 2013 06:14:58 +0900, Luca Vascon <luca.vascon@...> wrote:

                          So, Roger, you are in a 6 plus 2 workflow.

                          Yes, reluctantly. I really REALLY prefer the four around of a tilted 8mm fisheye like the Sigma on a full, i.e., non-Canon, SPS-C sensor. (Sigh) And I will never get rid of my Peleng.

                          I do have a copy of the exact same lens, as you know my illness. I? must have them all. I also do have the 17-28mm Pentax fisheye zoom..
                          I use it in Tokina version on Canon, so I do have some degrees less, due to the smaller Canon APSC sensor.
                          On all my 6+2 workflows, and I speak of workflows, because they are my pride and babies ( reason why I can take and stich whatever and in whatever number a day...) They are so even if they are handheld ( workflAws). I was saying... on thiskind of case I always try to take  the 6 pictures drum with a -15 degrees pitch, and have a smaller nadir, as small as the tripod indeed, or even less ( 15mm Sigma on full frame, 7.5 Sammy on Olympus Pen) so taking away the nadir is trivial.

                          Aha. That is helpful. I will try -10 or -12.5 degrees and see how that works out.

                          With 10-17 you have some degree less. So you pitch a bit less than 15degrees and the hole remains a bit bigger.
                          Or you can switch to a 4+4 shots ( you may need a tripod, because you need the first drum  to be shot, let's say @-30 pitch, 0-90-180-270, but when you make the upper drum (keep it @+25 more than +30) you should start your 90 degrees steps from 45 and not from 8. You need a 8 clicks rotator.

                          You may remember I told the list that I would be beta testing a camera rotator that appeared on Kickstarter? There have been various delays with design and manufacturing changes (I believe they are significant improvements well worth waiting for) that were made possible by the multiple over-funding. The much-delayed launch of manufacturing prototypes, which I expect to be beta testing, is scheduled for early next month. The small units, not much larger than a mechanical rotator, can be programmed using iOS and/or Android apps, and two of them can be used together to offer synchronized or successive pan AND tilt functions! You put the camera on a bracket that places the NPP at the center of rotation of one device, and then use another bracket to mount this device on a second device. One turns the camera around, the other points it up or down. It provides a really cool way of taking, say, six around, alternately pointing up and down, or indeed any other combination. Of course this is in theory. That is why I will be beta testing!

                          Of course you can shoot 6 shots and 6 shots, with a total of 12, keeping your monopod system like it is, but you will also have too much overlap in zenit and nadir areas. Better make a template with maskings! ;-)

                          Here it is late and I'm stitching 5meter pole handheld interiors, so I hope it is all clear, if it is not, pleade feel free to ask as many times as you want, my friend!!

                          That is for the future. For now, I will simply take my panoramas with the camera pointing 10 degrees down and see (a) how small the nadir gets and (b) for large the zenith gets and (c) how much trouble I have filling the various sized holes.

                          I really appreciate your offer of help. Don't forget that I offered help with the final English editing of anything you might need in that area! I am now fully retired and have LOTS of time on my hands.

                          Roger


                          --
                          Business: www.adex-japan.com
                          Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
                          Panorama: Rogerama at photosynth.net



                          --
                          Luca Vascon.
                          --
                          Questa è la mia mail privata, la guardo di tanto in tanto.
                          Se volete parlarmi di lavoro, contattatemi attraverso i siti qui sotto.
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