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RE: [PanoToolsNG] HDR tools for Large Panos

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  • Yazan Sboul
    Have you tried using Photomatix Pro? I don t usually tone map but it has all the tone mapping features. Excellent for batch processing and you can make
    Message 1 of 26 , Mar 2 5:32 AM
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      Have you tried using Photomatix Pro?  I don't usually tone map but it has all the tone mapping features. Excellent for batch processing and you can make templates for similar images once you get the effects you want. 




      To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
      From: kilgore661@...
      Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 11:36:29 +0000
      Subject: [PanoToolsNG] HDR tools for Large Panos

       
      I'm looking for some software to tone map/fuse large panoramic images. I have been using Photomatix but in my experience that is limited to images of about 30,000 x 15,000 pixels and my images can be lot larger than this.

      I'm looking at alternative progams (Oleono HDREngine, TuFuse, Photoshop CS5) but they all seem to assume your image will e.g. fit into 32 bits, and I was hoping someone may already have better knowledge about what's out there.


    • Hans
      ... For fusing you should work with your original images. This is much faster and produces better results. Hans
      Message 2 of 26 , Mar 2 5:38 AM
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        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "kilgore661@..." <kilgore661@...> wrote:
        >
        > I'm looking for some software to tone map/fuse large panoramic images. I have been using Photomatix but in my experience that is limited to images of about 30,000 x 15,000 pixels and my images can be lot larger than this.
        >
        > I'm looking at alternative progams (Oleono HDREngine, TuFuse, Photoshop CS5) but they all seem to assume your image will e.g. fit into 32 bits, and I was hoping someone may already have better knowledge about what's out there.
        >

        For fusing you should work with your original images. This is much faster and produces better results.

        Hans
      • Mark Fink
        I highly recommend looking at SNS HDR. Mark Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless ... From: kilgore661@btinternet.com To:
        Message 3 of 26 , Mar 2 6:51 AM
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          I highly recommend looking at SNS HDR.

          Mark

          Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless


          -----Original message-----
          From: "kilgore661@..." <kilgore661@...>
          To:
          PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
          Sent:
          Sat, Mar 2, 2013 11:36:29 GMT+00:00
          Subject:
          [PanoToolsNG] HDR tools for Large Panos

          I'm looking for some software to tone map/fuse large panoramic images. I have been using Photomatix but in my experience that is limited to images of about 30,000 x 15,000 pixels and my images can be lot larger than this.

          I'm looking at alternative progams (Oleono HDREngine, TuFuse, Photoshop CS5) but they all seem to assume your image will e.g. fit into 32 bits, and I was hoping someone may already have better knowledge about what's out there.



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        • Erik Krause
          ... - http://www.sns-hdr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1467 I think like Hans that fusing (or using SNS-HDR) before stitching is better. -- Erik Krause
          Message 4 of 26 , Mar 2 8:17 AM
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            Am 02.03.2013 15:51, schrieb Mark Fink:
            > I highly recommend looking at SNS HDR.

            -> http://www.sns-hdr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1467

            I think like Hans that fusing (or using SNS-HDR) before stitching is
            better.

            --
            Erik Krause
            http://www.erik-krause.de
          • Ben Thompson
            I wasn t aware of SNS HDR but it seems to have the same problems as Photomatix in that it is limited by the amount of memory available. Other people have
            Message 5 of 26 , Mar 2 10:41 AM
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              I wasn't aware of SNS HDR but it seems to have the same problems as
              Photomatix in that it is limited by the amount of memory available.

              Other people have suggested that I merge before stitching I am aware of
              this technique but it isn't what my question is about, but thanks for
              sguggesting it.

              The question of whether one should merge before stitching or stitch
              before merging is an interesting one and I would be interested in any
              well-informed articles about the subject, but it is not one I want to
              discuss in this thread.
            • Erik Krause
              ... There are no articles I am aware of (and I currently don t have the time to write one ;-). All the knowledge is here... -- Erik Krause
              Message 6 of 26 , Mar 2 1:56 PM
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                Am 02.03.2013 19:41, schrieb Ben Thompson:
                > The question of whether one should merge before stitching or stitch
                > before merging is an interesting one and I would be interested in any
                > well-informed articles about the subject, but it is not one I want to
                > discuss in this thread.

                There are no articles I am aware of (and I currently don't have the time
                to write one ;-). All the knowledge is here...

                --
                Erik Krause
                http://www.erik-krause.de
              • Christian Bloch
                I ve been doing some extensive testing on working with very large EXR panos (50K and higher) and tonemapping them. Most software makers don t even have such
                Message 7 of 26 , Mar 3 12:50 PM
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                  I've been doing some extensive testing on working with very large EXR panos (50K and higher) and tonemapping them. Most software makers don't even have such big images, and so I have continuously been sending them large files for testing purpose.

                  It is indicated in my book, on the huge two-page HDR software comparison (pages 106/107), under a "Large File Handling". Three points mean it can do well, and the only programs so far are: FastPictureViewer CodecPack, Bridge, Photoshop, Picturenaut, Photomatix Pro, SNS-HDR Pro.

                  - Photoshop is stable with large images in 32bit, but of course limited in what you can do with tonemapping. But works great for cleaning up large panos and manual dodge-and-burn techniques.

                  - Picturenaut is rather straight-forward, just works, although with very large images tonemapping is faster when you turn off the Preview.

                  - In Photomatix the best workflow is to first tonemap a scaled down version (8K) to find the right settings, and then use the menu "Automate/Batch Single Photos" to apply this to the full-size image. Photomatix can also read PSB files (must be flattened), but I found it performs best when you save your big pano as Radiance HDR file.

                  Blochi
                • Alan Shaw
                  Is PTGui a contender?
                  Message 8 of 26 , Mar 3 5:11 PM
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                    Is PTGui a contender?

                    On Mar 3, 2013 12:50 PM, "Christian Bloch" <Blochi@...> wrote:
                     

                    I've been doing some extensive testing on working with very large EXR panos (50K and higher) and tonemapping them. Most software makers don't even have such big images, and so I have continuously been sending them large files for testing purpose.

                    It is indicated in my book, on the huge two-page HDR software comparison (pages 106/107), under a "Large File Handling". Three points mean it can do well, and the only programs so far are: FastPictureViewer CodecPack, Bridge, Photoshop, Picturenaut, Photomatix Pro, SNS-HDR Pro.

                    - Photoshop is stable with large images in 32bit, but of course limited in what you can do with tonemapping. But works great for cleaning up large panos and manual dodge-and-burn techniques.

                    - Picturenaut is rather straight-forward, just works, although with very large images tonemapping is faster when you turn off the Preview.

                    - In Photomatix the best workflow is to first tonemap a scaled down version (8K) to find the right settings, and then use the menu "Automate/Batch Single Photos" to apply this to the full-size image. Photomatix can also read PSB files (must be flattened), but I found it performs best when you save your big pano as Radiance HDR file.

                    Blochi

                  • kilgore661@btinternet.com
                    PTGui (and Autopano) can certainly be used to make large HDR panos but my question is about how to apply HDR techniques to panos that exist independently of
                    Message 9 of 26 , Mar 3 5:27 PM
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                      PTGui (and Autopano) can certainly be used to make large HDR panos but my question is about how to apply HDR techniques to panos that exist independently of stitching programs.

                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Alan Shaw <nodename@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Is PTGui a contender?
                      > On Mar 3, 2013 12:50 PM, "Christian Bloch" <Blochi@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > **
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > I've been doing some extensive testing on working with very large EXR
                      > > panos (50K and higher) and tonemapping them. Most software makers don't
                      > > even have such big images, and so I have continuously been sending them
                      > > large files for testing purpose.
                      > >
                      > > It is indicated in my book, on the huge two-page HDR software comparison
                      > > (pages 106/107), under a "Large File Handling". Three points mean it can do
                      > > well, and the only programs so far are: FastPictureViewer CodecPack,
                      > > Bridge, Photoshop, Picturenaut, Photomatix Pro, SNS-HDR Pro.
                      > >
                      > > - Photoshop is stable with large images in 32bit, but of course limited in
                      > > what you can do with tonemapping. But works great for cleaning up large
                      > > panos and manual dodge-and-burn techniques.
                      > >
                      > > - Picturenaut is rather straight-forward, just works, although with very
                      > > large images tonemapping is faster when you turn off the Preview.
                      > >
                      > > - In Photomatix the best workflow is to first tonemap a scaled down
                      > > version (8K) to find the right settings, and then use the menu
                      > > "Automate/Batch Single Photos" to apply this to the full-size image.
                      > > Photomatix can also read PSB files (must be flattened), but I found it
                      > > performs best when you save your big pano as Radiance HDR file.
                      > >
                      > > Blochi
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • kilgore661@btinternet.com
                      Thanks for the information on a whole bunch of programs I wasn t aware of. What do you mean by 50k ? Do you mean images whose width is 50,000 pixels? I am
                      Message 10 of 26 , Mar 3 5:39 PM
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                        Thanks for the information on a whole bunch of programs I wasn't aware of.

                        What do you mean by "50k"? Do you mean images whose width is 50,000 pixels?

                        I am interested to hear you say that Photomatix Pro and Photoshop can tonemap large images because my experience is that is not true. I use PM Pro a lot and talk to the development team regularly about why PM is still crashing on images that are around the 30,000 x 15,000 pixel mark. Photoshop doesn't even recognise HDR files that are over a certain size (in my experience). I looked at SNS but it said that it was limited by memory so my expectation is that it will also fail on large images. Here's why I think that: let's call an image "big" if it contains 1.25Gpix (because 1.25G = 50,000 x 25,0000 and I think that's quite big).The SNS page on memory requirements says it needs 60 bytes per pixel so a big image would need 75GB of memory.

                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Christian Bloch <Blochi@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I've been doing some extensive testing on working with very large EXR panos (50K and higher) and tonemapping them. Most software makers don't even have such big images, and so I have continuously been sending them large files for testing purpose.
                        >
                        > It is indicated in my book, on the huge two-page HDR software comparison (pages 106/107), under a "Large File Handling". Three points mean it can do well, and the only programs so far are: FastPictureViewer CodecPack, Bridge, Photoshop, Picturenaut, Photomatix Pro, SNS-HDR Pro.
                        >
                        > - Photoshop is stable with large images in 32bit, but of course limited in what you can do with tonemapping. But works great for cleaning up large panos and manual dodge-and-burn techniques.
                        >
                        > - Picturenaut is rather straight-forward, just works, although with very large images tonemapping is faster when you turn off the Preview.
                        >
                        > - In Photomatix the best workflow is to first tonemap a scaled down version (8K) to find the right settings, and then use the menu "Automate/Batch Single Photos" to apply this to the full-size image. Photomatix can also read PSB files (must be flattened), but I found it performs best when you save your big pano as Radiance HDR file.
                        >
                        > Blochi
                        >
                      • David
                        Did you look at Lightroom (4.1+) which now supports developing of 32bit tiff files?
                        Message 11 of 26 , Mar 4 4:53 PM
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                          Did you look at Lightroom (4.1+) which now supports developing of 32bit tiff files?

                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "kilgore661@..." <kilgore661@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I'm looking for some software to tone map/fuse large panoramic images. I have been using Photomatix but in my experience that is limited to images of about 30,000 x 15,000 pixels and my images can be lot larger than this.
                          >
                          > I'm looking at alternative progams (Oleono HDREngine, TuFuse, Photoshop CS5) but they all seem to assume your image will e.g. fit into 32 bits, and I was hoping someone may already have better knowledge about what's out there.
                          >
                        • kilgore661@btinternet.com
                          I don t have Lightroom but as I understand it, there isn t anything you can do in Lightroom that you can t do in Photoshop which I do have. Thanks for the idea
                          Message 12 of 26 , Mar 5 3:16 AM
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                            I don't have Lightroom but as I understand it, there isn't anything you can do in Lightroom that you can't do in Photoshop which I do have.

                            Thanks for the idea though.

                            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dburton97128@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Did you look at Lightroom (4.1+) which now supports developing of 32bit tiff files?
                            >
                            > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "kilgore661@" <kilgore661@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > I'm looking for some software to tone map/fuse large panoramic images. I have been using Photomatix but in my experience that is limited to images of about 30,000 x 15,000 pixels and my images can be lot larger than this.
                            > >
                            > > I'm looking at alternative progams (Oleono HDREngine, TuFuse, Photoshop CS5) but they all seem to assume your image will e.g. fit into 32 bits, and I was hoping someone may already have better knowledge about what's out there.
                            > >
                            >
                          • Thomas Bredenfeld
                            to be precise: there isn t anything you can do in lightroom you can t do in camera raw as they re using the same engine. so 32-bit treatment works very fine
                            Message 13 of 26 , Mar 5 3:59 AM
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                              to be precise: there isn't anything you can do in lightroom you can't
                              do in camera raw as they're using the same engine.

                              so 32-bit treatment works very fine from camera raw 7.1+. just force
                              photoshop to open tiffs and psd/psb files in camera raw instead of
                              directly opening them in photoshop.

                              what you can't do in photoshop is the new light/shadow editing in LR/CR
                              which is superior to any photoshop internal color/contrast tools
                              especially for 32 bit images. the clarity adjustment in LR/CR can only
                              partly replaced in photoshop by high radius unsharp masking.

                              Am 05.03.13 12:16, schrieb kilgore661@...:
                              > I don't have Lightroom but as I understand it, there isn't anything you
                              > can do in Lightroom that you can't do in Photoshop which I do have.
                              >
                              > Thanks for the idea though.
                              >
                              > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                              > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>, "David" wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Did you look at Lightroom (4.1+) which now supports developing of
                              > 32bit tiff files?
                              > >
                              > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                              > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>, "kilgore661@" wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > I'm looking for some software to tone map/fuse large panoramic
                              > images. I have been using Photomatix but in my experience that is
                              > limited to images of about 30,000 x 15,000 pixels and my images can be
                              > lot larger than this.
                              > > >
                              > > > I'm looking at alternative progams (Oleono HDREngine, TuFuse,
                              > Photoshop CS5) but they all seem to assume your image will e.g. fit into
                              > 32 bits, and I was hoping someone may already have better knowledge
                              > about what's out there.
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                            • kilgore661@btinternet.com
                              I may have given you the impression that I know more about Adobe products that I in fact do (next to nothing), but I m afraid I don t really understand what
                              Message 14 of 26 , Mar 5 7:07 AM
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                                I may have given you the impression that I know more about Adobe products that I in fact do (next to nothing), but I'm afraid I don't really understand what you are saying.

                                My files are in the .hdr format which Lightroom doesn't recognise. I am aware that there is a 32-bit photoshop file format but this is not the format my files are in. I haven't heard of 32-bit tiff files unless you mean what I know as BigTiff files.

                                It seems to me the ways forward are either (1) re-make my HDR files as 32-bit .psb files which means days of re-work or (2) find a way of converting my .hdr files to 32-bit .psb/.tif.

                                Is that right?

                                Thanks for your help by the way!

                                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Bredenfeld <mailinglist@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > to be precise: there isn't anything you can do in lightroom you can't
                                > do in camera raw as they're using the same engine.
                                >
                                > so 32-bit treatment works very fine from camera raw 7.1+. just force
                                > photoshop to open tiffs and psd/psb files in camera raw instead of
                                > directly opening them in photoshop.
                                >
                                > what you can't do in photoshop is the new light/shadow editing in LR/CR
                                > which is superior to any photoshop internal color/contrast tools
                                > especially for 32 bit images. the clarity adjustment in LR/CR can only
                                > partly replaced in photoshop by high radius unsharp masking.
                                >
                                > Am 05.03.13 12:16, schrieb kilgore661@...:
                                > > I don't have Lightroom but as I understand it, there isn't anything you
                                > > can do in Lightroom that you can't do in Photoshop which I do have.
                                > >
                                > > Thanks for the idea though.
                                > >
                                > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                > > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>, "David" wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Did you look at Lightroom (4.1+) which now supports developing of
                                > > 32bit tiff files?
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                > > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>, "kilgore661@" wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I'm looking for some software to tone map/fuse large panoramic
                                > > images. I have been using Photomatix but in my experience that is
                                > > limited to images of about 30,000 x 15,000 pixels and my images can be
                                > > lot larger than this.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I'm looking at alternative progams (Oleono HDREngine, TuFuse,
                                > > Photoshop CS5) but they all seem to assume your image will e.g. fit into
                                > > 32 bits, and I was hoping someone may already have better knowledge
                                > > about what's out there.
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • Thomas Bredenfeld
                                you can do this simply in a batch via bridge and image processor. just select your hdr-files (works with *.exr and *.hdr) in bridge and run photoshops image
                                Message 15 of 26 , Mar 5 8:02 AM
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                                  you can do this simply in a batch via bridge and image processor.

                                  just select your hdr-files (works with *.exr and *.hdr) in bridge and
                                  run photoshops image processor via "tools" menu in bridge just to open
                                  the hdrs and save them as 32-bit tiffs.

                                  Am 05.03.13 16:07, schrieb kilgore661@...:
                                  > I may have given you the impression that I know more about Adobe
                                  > products that I in fact do (next to nothing), but I'm afraid I don't
                                  > really understand what you are saying.
                                  >
                                  > My files are in the .hdr format which Lightroom doesn't recognise. I am
                                  > aware that there is a 32-bit photoshop file format but this is not the
                                  > format my files are in. I haven't heard of 32-bit tiff files unless you
                                  > mean what I know as BigTiff files.
                                  >
                                  > It seems to me the ways forward are either (1) re-make my HDR files as
                                  > 32-bit .psb files which means days of re-work or (2) find a way of
                                  > converting my .hdr files to 32-bit .psb/.tif.
                                  >
                                  > Is that right?
                                  >
                                  > Thanks for your help by the way!
                                  >
                                  > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                  > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>, Thomas Bredenfeld wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > to be precise: there isn't anything you can do in lightroom you can't
                                  > > do in camera raw as they're using the same engine.
                                  > >
                                  > > so 32-bit treatment works very fine from camera raw 7.1+. just force
                                  > > photoshop to open tiffs and psd/psb files in camera raw instead of
                                  > > directly opening them in photoshop.
                                  > >
                                  > > what you can't do in photoshop is the new light/shadow editing in LR/CR
                                  > > which is superior to any photoshop internal color/contrast tools
                                  > > especially for 32 bit images. the clarity adjustment in LR/CR can only
                                  > > partly replaced in photoshop by high radius unsharp masking.
                                  > >
                                  > > Am 05.03.13 12:16, schrieb kilgore661@...:
                                  > > > I don't have Lightroom but as I understand it, there isn't anything you
                                  > > > can do in Lightroom that you can't do in Photoshop which I do have.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Thanks for the idea though.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                  > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > > > , "David" wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Did you look at Lightroom (4.1+) which now supports developing of
                                  > > > 32bit tiff files?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                  > <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > > > , "kilgore661@" wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > I'm looking for some software to tone map/fuse large panoramic
                                  > > > images. I have been using Photomatix but in my experience that is
                                  > > > limited to images of about 30,000 x 15,000 pixels and my images can be
                                  > > > lot larger than this.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > I'm looking at alternative progams (Oleono HDREngine, TuFuse,
                                  > > > Photoshop CS5) but they all seem to assume your image will e.g. fit
                                  > into
                                  > > > 32 bits, and I was hoping someone may already have better knowledge
                                  > > > about what's out there.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • David
                                  Yes, that s why I m excited about processing in LR4. I certainly get way better results with LR than I could achieve in DPP, even using the lens specific
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Mar 5 3:41 PM
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                                    Yes, that's why I'm excited about processing in LR4. I certainly get way better results with LR than I could achieve in DPP, even using the lens specific corrections from Canon. And CA and fringing correction is superb, which is a big plus for fisheye lenses.

                                    As stated many these are features of new Adobe Camera Raw which is what the raw processor/importer in LR4 (as well as PS CS6) is. LR4 does add some nice touches beyond ACR though, and it's WAY cheaper than Photoshop. I've seen it on sale/promotion for <$100USD.

                                    David B

                                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Bredenfeld <mailinglist@...> wrote:
                                    >

                                    > what you can't do in photoshop is the new light/shadow editing in LR/CR
                                    > which is superior to any photoshop internal color/contrast tools
                                    > especially for 32 bit images. the clarity adjustment in LR/CR can only
                                    > partly replaced in photoshop by high radius unsharp masking.
                                    >
                                  • David
                                    One more comment on this. LR4 brings many new features that I don t think can be done in ACR. The LR develop adjustments are also brushable for local
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Mar 5 3:50 PM
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                                      One more comment on this. LR4 brings many new features that I don't think can be done in ACR. The LR develop adjustments are also brushable for local application. In addition the photo manangemnt features are very extensive and are really helping me get a grip on my thousands of images. I do find LR spot repair festures to be more awkward than I would like. I would like to have PS, but can't quite justify the cost for that for the 5% of features I don't have apps for already. Do I sound like a fan of LR4?

                                      Why can't I edit these posts after pushing the send button too soon?

                                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Bredenfeld <mailinglist@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > to be precise: there isn't anything you can do in lightroom you can't
                                      > do in camera raw as they're using the same engine.
                                      >
                                    • Keith Martin
                                      ... Because this is email! ... k
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Mar 5 4:03 PM
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                                        > Why can't I edit these posts after pushing the send button too soon?

                                        Because this is email!
                                        :)

                                        k
                                      • Ben Thompson
                                        Thanks for the more detailed instructions. Unfortunately, whilst I got this to work on a 1GB .hdr file it didn t work on a 6GB file. The file isn t corrupted
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Mar 5 8:44 PM
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                                          Thanks for the more detailed instructions.

                                          Unfortunately, whilst I got this to work on a 1GB .hdr file it didn't
                                          work on a 6GB file. The file isn't corrupted because loads OK into
                                          Photomatix, but when it is processed by Photshop it shows up as a
                                          10000x20000 image when it is in fact 80000x23000.

                                          Back to the old cutting and pasting technique I guess :-)

                                          On 05/03/2013 16:02, Thomas Bredenfeld wrote:
                                          > you can do this simply in a batch via bridge and image processor.
                                          >
                                          > just select your hdr-files (works with *.exr and *.hdr) in bridge and
                                          > run photoshops image processor via "tools" menu in bridge just to open
                                          > the hdrs and save them as 32-bit tiffs.
                                          >
                                          > Am 05.03.13 16:07, schrieb kilgore661@...:
                                          >> I may have given you the impression that I know more about Adobe
                                          >> products that I in fact do (next to nothing), but I'm afraid I don't
                                          >> really understand what you are saying.
                                          >>
                                          >> My files are in the .hdr format which Lightroom doesn't recognise. I am
                                          >> aware that there is a 32-bit photoshop file format but this is not the
                                          >> format my files are in. I haven't heard of 32-bit tiff files unless you
                                          >> mean what I know as BigTiff files.
                                          >>
                                          >> It seems to me the ways forward are either (1) re-make my HDR files as
                                          >> 32-bit .psb files which means days of re-work or (2) find a way of
                                          >> converting my .hdr files to 32-bit .psb/.tif.
                                          >>
                                          >> Is that right?
                                          >>
                                          >> Thanks for your help by the way!
                                          >>
                                          >> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                          >> <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>, Thomas Bredenfeld wrote:
                                          >> >
                                          >> > to be precise: there isn't anything you can do in lightroom you can't
                                          >> > do in camera raw as they're using the same engine.
                                          >> >
                                          >> > so 32-bit treatment works very fine from camera raw 7.1+. just force
                                          >> > photoshop to open tiffs and psd/psb files in camera raw instead of
                                          >> > directly opening them in photoshop.
                                          >> >
                                          >> > what you can't do in photoshop is the new light/shadow editing in LR/CR
                                          >> > which is superior to any photoshop internal color/contrast tools
                                          >> > especially for 32 bit images. the clarity adjustment in LR/CR can only
                                          >> > partly replaced in photoshop by high radius unsharp masking.
                                          >> >
                                          >> > Am 05.03.13 12:16, schrieb kilgore661@...:
                                          >> > > I don't have Lightroom but as I understand it, there isn't anything you
                                          >> > > can do in Lightroom that you can't do in Photoshop which I do have.
                                          >> > >
                                          >> > > Thanks for the idea though.
                                          >> > >
                                          >> > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                          >> <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                                          >> > > , "David" wrote:
                                          >> > > >
                                          >> > > > Did you look at Lightroom (4.1+) which now supports developing of
                                          >> > > 32bit tiff files?
                                          >> > > >
                                          >> > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                          >> <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                                          >> > > , "kilgore661@" wrote:
                                          >> > > > >
                                          >> > > > > I'm looking for some software to tone map/fuse large panoramic
                                          >> > > images. I have been using Photomatix but in my experience that is
                                          >> > > limited to images of about 30,000 x 15,000 pixels and my images can be
                                          >> > > lot larger than this.
                                          >> > > > >
                                          >> > > > > I'm looking at alternative progams (Oleono HDREngine, TuFuse,
                                          >> > > Photoshop CS5) but they all seem to assume your image will e.g. fit
                                          >> into
                                          >> > > 32 bits, and I was hoping someone may already have better knowledge
                                          >> > > about what's out there.
                                          >> > > > >
                                          >> > > >
                                          >> > >
                                          >> > >
                                          >> >
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ------------------------------------
                                          >
                                        • Hans
                                          ... Obviously you never used ACR. The tools in ACR have maybe a different interface but they are the same. The local adjustment brush has been in ACR for
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Mar 5 11:47 PM
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dburton97128@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > One more comment on this. LR4 brings many new features that I don't think can be done in ACR. The LR develop adjustments are also brushable for local application. In addition the photo manangemnt features are very extensive and are really helping me get a grip on my thousands of images. I do find LR spot repair festures to be more awkward than I would like. I would like to have PS, but can't quite justify the cost for that for the 5% of features I don't have apps for already. Do I sound like a fan of LR4?
                                            >

                                            Obviously you never used ACR. The tools in ACR have maybe a different interface but they are the same.
                                            The local adjustment brush has been in ACR for several years. I have CS4 - CS 5 and CS6 installed and can use them all at same time. The adjustment brush is already in CS4 ACR.

                                            Hans

                                            > Why can't I edit these posts after pushing the send button too soon?
                                            >
                                            > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Bredenfeld <mailinglist@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > to be precise: there isn't anything you can do in lightroom you can't
                                            > > do in camera raw as they're using the same engine.
                                            > >
                                            >
                                          • Erik Krause
                                            ... Because this is a mailing list. The mail has gone out... If you want to edit your posts use your mail reader and configure it to send mail later. Erik
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Mar 6 3:30 AM
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Am 06.03.2013 00:50, schrieb David:

                                              > Why can't I edit these posts after pushing the send button too soon?

                                              Because this is a mailing list. The mail has gone out...

                                              If you want to edit your posts use your mail reader and configure it to
                                              send mail later.

                                              Erik Krause
                                            • David
                                              Actually I was posting on the forum page. It must send out the emails as soon as the post is submitted. Other forums I use allow editing and don t send
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Mar 6 11:36 AM
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Actually I was posting on the forum page. It must send out the emails as soon as the post is submitted. Other forums I use allow editing and don't send instant emails out (only once per day or so) so a preson gets a chance to fix speeling , etc.

                                                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Erik Krause <erik.krause@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Am 06.03.2013 00:50, schrieb David:
                                                >
                                                > > Why can't I edit these posts after pushing the send button too soon?
                                                >
                                                > Because this is a mailing list. The mail has gone out...
                                                >
                                                > If you want to edit your posts use your mail reader and configure it to
                                                > send mail later.
                                                >
                                                > Erik Krause
                                                >
                                              • David
                                                I have used older versions of ACR, but not for a while, and not what is current. Admonition accepted :-)
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Mar 6 11:38 AM
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  I have used older versions of ACR, but not for a while, and not what is current. Admonition accepted :-)

                                                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans" <hans@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dburton97128@> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > One more comment on this. LR4 brings many new features that I don't think can be done in ACR. The LR develop adjustments are also brushable for local application. In addition the photo manangemnt features are very extensive and are really helping me get a grip on my thousands of images. I do find LR spot repair festures to be more awkward than I would like. I would like to have PS, but can't quite justify the cost for that for the 5% of features I don't have apps for already. Do I sound like a fan of LR4?
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  > Obviously you never used ACR. The tools in ACR have maybe a different interface but they are the same.
                                                  > The local adjustment brush has been in ACR for several years. I have CS4 - CS 5 and CS6 installed and can use them all at same time. The adjustment brush is already in CS4 ACR.
                                                  >
                                                  > Hans
                                                  >
                                                  > > Why can't I edit these posts after pushing the send button too soon?
                                                  > >
                                                  > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Bredenfeld <mailinglist@> wrote:
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > to be precise: there isn't anything you can do in lightroom you can't
                                                  > > > do in camera raw as they're using the same engine.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                • Erik Krause
                                                  ... This is no forum, it s a *mailing list*. There is a web frontend, but it s main purpose is to deliver mails to all members. -- Erik Krause
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Mar 6 11:45 AM
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Am 06.03.2013 20:36, schrieb David:
                                                    > Actually I was posting on the forum page. It must send out the
                                                    > emails as soon as the post is submitted. Other forums I use allow
                                                    > editing and don't send instant emails out (only once per day or so)
                                                    > so a preson gets a chance to fix speeling , etc.

                                                    This is no forum, it's a *mailing list*. There is a web frontend, but
                                                    it's main purpose is to deliver mails to all members.

                                                    --
                                                    Erik Krause
                                                    http://www.erik-krause.de
                                                  • AYRTON
                                                    ... David Yahoo Groups is NOT a forum !!! Completely different solutions ... best A
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , Mar 7 6:37 AM
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:36 PM, David <dburton97128@...> wrote:
                                                      Actually I was posting on the forum page.  It must send out the emails as soon as the post is submitted.  Other forums I use allow editing  and don't send instant emails out (only once per day or so) so a preson gets a chance to fix speeling , etc.

                                                      David

                                                      Yahoo Groups is NOT a forum !!!

                                                      Completely different solutions
                                                      :-)

                                                      best
                                                      A
                                                       

                                                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Erik Krause <erik.krause@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > Am 06.03.2013 00:50, schrieb David:
                                                      >
                                                      > > Why can't I edit these posts after pushing the send button too soon?
                                                      >
                                                      > Because this is a mailing list. The mail has gone out...
                                                      >
                                                      > If you want to edit your posts use your mail reader and configure it to
                                                      > send mail later.
                                                      >
                                                      > Erik Krause
                                                      >




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