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Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Next step?

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  • Robert C. Fisher
    Scott the Samyang 8mm is a full frame fisheye not a circular fisheye. ... Robert C. Fisher VR Photographer / Cinematographer http://www.rcfisher.com
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 12, 2013
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      Scott the Samyang 8mm is a full frame fisheye not a circular fisheye.

      On Jan 12, 2013, at 9:58 AM, Scott Highton wrote:
       

      Your Nikon D90 has a 12 megapixel DX (or APS-C) sized sensor.  Using a Samyang 8mm with this camera, you would probably shoot four images (panning every 90° between shots) to capture a full 360°X180° panorama.  Upgrading to a Nikkor 10.5mm should mean you're shooting eight images per panorama (every 60° horizontally, plus zenith and nadir shots) for the same 360°x180° coverage.  You should see a noticeable difference in your results between the to lenses.


      Robert C. Fisher
      VR Photographer / Cinematographer
      http://www.rcfisher.com
      bob@...


    • Uri
      ... The Nikon 10.5mm appears to be the best choice for FX type DSLR s since it delivers very good performance and lets you shoot a complete panorama with 4 or
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 12, 2013
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        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "harrypanorama" wrote:

        > At the moment I do my panoramas with a Nikon D90, Samyang 8mm, NN4 + RD8.
        > I want to improve the overall quality.
        > My Nikkor 10.5 mm test last weekend has a little bit disappointing outcome.
        > It doesn't brings me that giant step forward I was hoping for.
        > It is sharper at the edges but you have to pixelpeep panoramas shoot with the Samyang or Nikkor to see the difference.

        The Nikon 10.5mm appears to be the best choice for FX type DSLR's since it delivers very good performance and lets you shoot a complete panorama with 4 or even 3 shots (6 shots on a DX body). It's sharpness appears to be perfectly good for panoramas that are intended for web display.

        To optimize it's performance, it will help to find it's focus "sweet spot" (mine is at f6.3 - f8) and process the image for CA removal, etc.

        To improve quality you may want to consider the Nikon 16mm fish-eye (6 shots with FX) or for the ultimate (?) try the Nikon 14-24 mm zoom lens at 14mm, 6 shots @ 30° down, plus 6 shots @ 30° up plus 1 shot to zenith and 1 shot for nadir (14 shots per pano!). That lens is insanely sharp, heavy, and quite expensive. It requires a large and solid pano head.
      • harrypanorama
        So, firstly thanks for all the overwhelming responses. I have the Nikkor 10.5mm, which I had rented for a weekend, compared with the Samyang 8mm under excact
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 13, 2013
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          So, firstly thanks for all the overwhelming responses.

          I have the Nikkor 10.5mm, which I had rented for a weekend, compared with the Samyang 8mm under excact same conditions.
          And as I said, I see some differences but not great.
          For example, the Nikkor 10.5mm is a bit sharper at the edges.
          But the Nikkor has significantly more CA.
          After postprocessing, the differences are not shocking.
          Nikkor yielded higher resolution result, approximately 12000x6000 vs. 10000x5000 for Samyang

          Yes indeed, I too would like to improve my sharpness and/or resolution.
          (or, if I downsample a higher resolution the result is sharper, right?)
          I would also like a higher / better dynamic range.
          Pulling details from the shadows.
          Outdoors I have to apply bracketing quite quickly.
          The bracketing capabilities of the D90 are often insufficient for indoor shots with daylight through the windows.

          The numbers on the internet make me believe that even if I downgrade to a lower class camera dynamic range will increase. less noise and more ability to pull detail out of the shadows?
          It is a pity only very expensive cameras have adequate bracketing possibilities.

          I hope this clarifies something.
          and I'm curious about your opinions.
        • Hans
          ... The Samyang 8mm has a special projection which means it is similar to a 9mm in resolution so the difference to the 10.5mm is not large. You usually shoot 6
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 13, 2013
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            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "harrypanorama" wrote:
            >
            > Hallo,
            >
            > At the moment I do my panoramas with a Nikon D90, Samyang 8mm, NN4 + RD8.
            > I want to improve the overall quality.
            > My Nikkor 10.5 mm test last weekend has a little bit disappointing outcome.
            > It doesn't brings me that giant step forward I was hoping for.
            > It is sharper at the edges but you have to pixelpeep panoramas shoot with the Samyang or Nikkor to see the difference.
            >
            > What do you advice to make a noticeable step forward?


            The Samyang 8mm has a special projection which means it is similar to a 9mm in resolution so the difference to the 10.5mm is not large. You usually shoot 6 around + zenith with both but you can actually do it with just 4+1 with the Samyang on a Nikon APS size camera like yours.

            However there are some other differences to the 10.5mm which favors the 10.5.
            The Nikkor 10.5mm has practically no flare and you can shoot directly into the sun. You just get a beautiful star. You can not do this with the Samyang.

            Also you have to stop down the samyang to at least 5.6 to get usable sharpness all over.
            With the 10,5mm you can shoot at full aperture 2.8 which is a great advantage in lowlight environments.

            If you want more resolution than the 10-11000 pixels you get with the Samyang8/Nikkor 10.5 you need to get a rectilinear 18-20mm and shoot 3 rows with 10 in each for a full spherical. This will give you around 26000-30000 pixels width.

            Hans
          • harrypanorama
            So, firstly thanks for all the overwhelming responses. I have the Nikkor 10.5mm, which I had rented for a weekend, compared with the Samyang 8mm under excact
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 13, 2013
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              So, firstly thanks for all the overwhelming responses.

              I have the Nikkor 10.5mm, which I had rented for a weekend, compared with the Samyang 8mm under excact same conditions.
              And as I said, I see some differences but not great.
              For example, the Nikkor 10.5mm is a bit sharper at the edges.
              But the Nikkor has significantly more CA.
              After postprocessing, the differences are not shocking.
              Nikkor yielded higher resolution result, approximately 12000x6000 vs. 10000x5000 for Samyang

              Yes indeed, I too would like to improve my sharpness and/or resolution.
              (or, if I downsample a higher resolution the result is sharper, right?)
              I would also like a higher / better dynamic range.
              Pulling details from the shadows.
              Outdoors I have to apply bracketing quite quickly.
              The bracketing capabilities of the D90 are often insufficient for indoor shots with daylight through the windows.

              The numbers on the internet make me believe that even if I downgrade to a lower class camera dynamic range will increase. less noise and more ability to pull detail out of the shadows?
              It is a pity only very expensive cameras have adequate bracketing possibilities.

              I hope this clarifies something.
              and I'm curious about your opinions.
            • Erik Krause
              ... That was to be expected. Read Hans message. ... How do you develop your raws? I found that ACR (lightroom or PS) give far better sharpness than f.e. Canon
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 13, 2013
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                Am 13.01.2013 12:46, schrieb harrypanorama:
                > Nikkor yielded higher resolution result, approximately 12000x6000 vs. 10000x5000 for Samyang

                That was to be expected. Read Hans' message.

                > Yes indeed, I too would like to improve my sharpness and/or resolution.

                How do you develop your raws? I found that ACR (lightroom or PS) give
                far better sharpness than f.e. Canon DPP. I dont't know for nikon though...

                > (or, if I downsample a higher resolution the result is sharper, right?)
                > I would also like a higher / better dynamic range.

                Well, this would require a new camera. DxO-Mark has a nice komparison of
                camera dynamic range: http://tinyurl.com/a3jm78e

                > The bracketing capabilities of the D90 are often insufficient for indoor shots with daylight through the windows.

                Perhaps external bracketing control would help:
                http://wiki.panotools.org/Extended_bracketing_control

                --
                Erik Krause
                http://www.erik-krause.de
              • harrypanorama
                Thanks for your reply and links. My raw process: - import raw into LR4 - do general sharping and CA correction - export 16bit tiff - if bracketing, fuse
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 13, 2013
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                  Thanks for your reply and links.

                  My raw process:
                  - import raw into LR4
                  - do general sharping and CA correction
                  - export 16bit tiff
                  - if bracketing, fuse exposures with Photomatix Pro
                  - stitch with PTGui Pro, save as 16bit tiff
                  - overall adjustments (like WB, contrast, sharping etc.) PS
                  - export 8bit jpeg


                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Erik Krause wrote:
                  >
                  > Am 13.01.2013 12:46, schrieb harrypanorama:
                  > > Nikkor yielded higher resolution result, approximately 12000x6000 vs. 10000x5000 for Samyang
                  >
                  > That was to be expected. Read Hans' message.
                  >
                  > > Yes indeed, I too would like to improve my sharpness and/or resolution.
                  >
                  > How do you develop your raws? I found that ACR (lightroom or PS) give
                  > far better sharpness than f.e. Canon DPP. I dont't know for nikon though...
                  >
                  > > (or, if I downsample a higher resolution the result is sharper, right?)
                  > > I would also like a higher / better dynamic range.
                  >
                  > Well, this would require a new camera. DxO-Mark has a nice komparison of
                  > camera dynamic range: http://tinyurl.com/a3jm78e
                  >
                  > > The bracketing capabilities of the D90 are often insufficient for indoor shots with daylight through the windows.
                  >
                  > Perhaps external bracketing control would help:
                  > http://wiki.panotools.org/Extended_bracketing_control
                  >
                  > --
                  > Erik Krause
                  > http://www.erik-krause.de
                  >
                • Erik Krause
                  ... I found that Photomatix blurs the images slightly. Try PTGui Pro exposure fusion or enfuse / EnfuseGUI or (even better IMHO): SNS-HDR The rest of your
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 13, 2013
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                    Am 13.01.2013 17:24, schrieb harrypanorama:

                    > - if bracketing, fuse exposures with Photomatix Pro

                    I found that Photomatix blurs the images slightly. Try PTGui Pro
                    exposure fusion or enfuse / EnfuseGUI or (even better IMHO): SNS-HDR

                    The rest of your workflow seems perfect. LR4 uses ACR7 as well. Using
                    Process 2012 there seems to give better dynamic range and you can also
                    play with highlights and shadows restoration, which is pretty good.

                    --
                    Erik Krause
                    http://www.erik-krause.de
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