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Re: [PanoToolsNG] Further development of stitchless technique

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  • A Kielcz
    Dorin, you are genius and should get Nobel prize for your work. I m not joking.   A Kielcz Cincinnati, Ohio, U.S.A. ________________________________ From:
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 5 6:55 AM
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      Dorin,
      you are genius and should get Nobel prize for your work. I'm not joking.
       
      A Kielcz
      Cincinnati, Ohio, U.S.A.


      From: Roger D Williams <roger@...>
      To: "PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com" <PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2012 9:23 AM
      Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Further development of stitchless technique

       
      On Sep 4, 2012, at 6:20 PM, "dorindxn" <Dorin@...> wrote:

      > Hi all, if is anyone curoius about my stitchless techique developping toward rectiliniar lens, kindly reffer to this link
      > http://www.panoguide.com/forums/galleries/10621/
      > at certain point it will cover gigapixell pano and, say, infinite resolution pano, I will explain that at right time.

      Very VERY impressive. Quite impossible to detect any seams. And if you created this from rectilinear images, you must have had a lot of them!

      > As is not easy for me to write these in English I choosed the Panoguide as it easier to me to follow and mantain a thread there.

      Your English is much better than my Romanian.

      > I'll try to keep an eye here too, if there is interes on this.

      There is a LOT of interest on my part. I didn't feel like joining Panoguide just to follow your remarks but will be fascinated by anything you post here.

      I will soon be beta-testing a prototype time-lapse and panorama motorized drive, and two of them can be combined to give full control over most of 360 x180 degrees, I.e., both round and round AND up and down. If I have suitable cameras and lenses I would be interested to test your technique with these motorized drives. They might be very convenient for it.

      Roger W


    • dorindxn
      Tanhk you all for the replies and for the kind words. @Roger About the number of photos, deppending where you look. The park pano was with regular required
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 6 3:50 AM
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        Tanhk you all for the replies and for the kind words.

        @Roger
        About the number of photos, deppending where you look.
        The park pano was with regular required 10x3 rows + Top and Nadir
        The square pano:

        This link
        http://www.livepanoramas.com/dorin/31c/try/31c.html

        uses only 30 photos (again 10x3 rows and was given as example of how one can "fix" some missaligments the photos are at plain 0°, 36°.. yaw 0°, +/-45° pitch ant 0° roll at oppening and the user is invited to fix, there is a guide there at panoguide and a analogy with a Rubik Cube, one can get the idea by these simply steps
        You need have Num Lock ON and have numeric pad on keyboard (migh not work on notebooks, though)
        open the link then click on the pano so it can receive the keys
        press the "h" key and will show only the middle row, the press and hold 7 or 9 then 8 or 2, on numeric pad.
        Each photo will be adjusted with the same amount in tilt and pitch. Please read more there if you're interested.

        Then, this link
        http://www.livepanoramas.com/dorin/31c/unirii/31c.html
        has some extra inserts taken with 55mm over the sphere taken with 18mm (I used a Canon 350D camera) pressing "e" key will show those extra inserts only, pressing "r" will show all.

        This link is the same as above and has some simple blending, the same alpha channel applied to the jpegs.
        http://www.livepanoramas.com/dorin/31c/unirii2/31c.html
        it requires a powerfull computer to pan it, for example on my computer I experience like 1 frame/sec so don't be surprised if you cannot pan in this last.
        The blending will be better and I'll try to have some content aware blending.

        Thanks for reading,
        Dorin




        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, A Kielcz <roblee007@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dorin,
        > you are genius and should get Nobel prize for your work. I'm not joking.
        >
        > A Kielcz
        > Cincinnati, Ohio, U.S.A.
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Roger D Williams <roger@...>
        > To: "PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com" <PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2012 9:23 AM
        > Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Further development of stitchless technique
        >
        >
        >
        > On Sep 4, 2012, at 6:20 PM, "dorindxn" <Dorin@...> wrote:
        >
        > > Hi all, if is anyone curoius about my stitchless techique developping toward rectiliniar lens, kindly reffer to this link
        > > http://www.panoguide.com/forums/galleries/10621/
        > > at certain point it will cover gigapixell pano and, say, infinite resolution pano, I will explain that at right time.
        >
        > Very VERY impressive. Quite impossible to detect any seams. And if you created this from rectilinear images, you must have had a lot of them!
        >
        > > As is not easy for me to write these in English I choosed the Panoguide as it easier to me to follow and mantain a thread there.
        >
        > Your English is much better than my Romanian.
        >
        > > I'll try to keep an eye here too, if there is interes on this.
        >
        > There is a LOT of interest on my part. I didn't feel like joining Panoguide just to follow your remarks but will be fascinated by anything you post here.
        >
        > I will soon be beta-testing a prototype time-lapse and panorama motorized drive, and two of them can be combined to give full control over most of 360 x180 degrees, I.e., both round and round AND up and down. If I have suitable cameras and lenses I would be interested to test your technique with these motorized drives. They might be very convenient for it.
        >
        > Roger W
        >
      • dorindxn
        Hello everybody, I posted some new stuff at the panoguide in the related thread http://www.panoguide.com/forums/galleries/10621/?page=3#msg77486 it involves
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 8 3:22 AM
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          Hello everybody, I posted some new stuff at the panoguide in the related thread
          http://www.panoguide.com/forums/galleries/10621/?page=3#msg77486
          it involves stitchless with reclininiar lenses and 3D (two cameras), I hope it could be of some interes for some of you.

          thanks for reading,
          Dorin

          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "dorindxn" <Dorin@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > Tanhk you all for the replies and for the kind words.
          >
          > @Roger
          > About the number of photos, deppending where you look.
          > The park pano was with regular required 10x3 rows + Top and Nadir
          > The square pano:
          >
          > This link
          > http://www.livepanoramas.com/dorin/31c/try/31c.html
          >
          > uses only 30 photos (again 10x3 rows and was given as example of how one can "fix" some missaligments the photos are at plain 0°, 36°.. yaw 0°, +/-45° pitch ant 0° roll at oppening and the user is invited to fix, there is a guide there at panoguide and a analogy with a Rubik Cube, one can get the idea by these simply steps
          > You need have Num Lock ON and have numeric pad on keyboard (migh not work on notebooks, though)
          > open the link then click on the pano so it can receive the keys
          > press the "h" key and will show only the middle row, the press and hold 7 or 9 then 8 or 2, on numeric pad.
          > Each photo will be adjusted with the same amount in tilt and pitch. Please read more there if you're interested.
          >
          > Then, this link
          > http://www.livepanoramas.com/dorin/31c/unirii/31c.html
          > has some extra inserts taken with 55mm over the sphere taken with 18mm (I used a Canon 350D camera) pressing "e" key will show those extra inserts only, pressing "r" will show all.
          >
          > This link is the same as above and has some simple blending, the same alpha channel applied to the jpegs.
          > http://www.livepanoramas.com/dorin/31c/unirii2/31c.html
          > it requires a powerfull computer to pan it, for example on my computer I experience like 1 frame/sec so don't be surprised if you cannot pan in this last.
          > The blending will be better and I'll try to have some content aware blending.
          >
          > Thanks for reading,
          > Dorin
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, A Kielcz <roblee007@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Dorin,
          > > you are genius and should get Nobel prize for your work. I'm not joking.
          > >
          > > A Kielcz
          > > Cincinnati, Ohio, U.S.A.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ________________________________
          > > From: Roger D Williams <roger@>
          > > To: "PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com" <PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>
          > > Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2012 9:23 AM
          > > Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Further development of stitchless technique
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > On Sep 4, 2012, at 6:20 PM, "dorindxn" <Dorin@> wrote:
          > >
          > > > Hi all, if is anyone curoius about my stitchless techique developping toward rectiliniar lens, kindly reffer to this link
          > > > http://www.panoguide.com/forums/galleries/10621/
          > > > at certain point it will cover gigapixell pano and, say, infinite resolution pano, I will explain that at right time.
          > >
          > > Very VERY impressive. Quite impossible to detect any seams. And if you created this from rectilinear images, you must have had a lot of them!
          > >
          > > > As is not easy for me to write these in English I choosed the Panoguide as it easier to me to follow and mantain a thread there.
          > >
          > > Your English is much better than my Romanian.
          > >
          > > > I'll try to keep an eye here too, if there is interes on this.
          > >
          > > There is a LOT of interest on my part. I didn't feel like joining Panoguide just to follow your remarks but will be fascinated by anything you post here.
          > >
          > > I will soon be beta-testing a prototype time-lapse and panorama motorized drive, and two of them can be combined to give full control over most of 360 x180 degrees, I.e., both round and round AND up and down. If I have suitable cameras and lenses I would be interested to test your technique with these motorized drives. They might be very convenient for it.
          > >
          > > Roger W
          > >
          >
        • Mike Sinclair
          On a slightly different topic but one involving the generation of 3D (stereo) panoramas, I have produced many by rotating a single HD video camera well off the
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 8 10:28 AM
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            On a slightly different topic but one involving the generation of 3D (stereo) panoramas, I have produced many by rotating a single HD video camera well off the NPP  through 360 degrees. Recent experiments involve rotating a portrait oriented DSLR with a wide angle rectilinear lens well in front of the NPP while videoing in HD. A simple program processes the video by extracting two 1920 pixel lines (vertical) equidistant to the left and right of the optic axis. These L & R vertical image lines represent two instantaneous, horizontally disparate but parallel image planes. The separation distance ("pupil distance" for sereo) and verge angle are variabe. They are then merged together to form two V x 360 degree pans to be viewed in 3D. This is also a stitchless technique. Because it is a continuous process, the panoramas don't usually suffer from image boundary problems.

             

            A few colleagues have written later about this http://research.microsoft.com/apps/pubs/default.aspx?id=68819 called "Concentric Mosaics".

             

            I have also had good luck making a normal 2D pan using a fisheye lens rotating on the NPP, extracting the 1920 pixel line on the optic axis (using the "sweet spot" of the lens). The down side is the resulting pan is only 1920 pixels tall and you're stuck with whatever auto/fixed exposure you camera gives you. The up side is you have less problems w parallax, image boundary stitching and object movement. That last one is a two sided coin as objects that move are rendered smoothly but can be distorted. Also, leaving auto-exposure enabled gives you (some) ability to smoothly exposure compensate (over many stops) as you're rotating, much like the RoundShot pan cameras allow.

             

            Cheers,

             

            Mike

          • dorindxn
            Hi Mike, thanks for posting, interesting informations, yes, videoing and rotating around NPP offset opens some ways, but only for static scenes as those two
            Message 5 of 11 , Sep 8 11:23 AM
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              Hi Mike, thanks for posting, interesting informations, yes, videoing and rotating around NPP offset opens some ways, but only for static scenes as those two lines have a time gap, though can be situations when moving features can excape from scanning and so toremain with frozen backround, then, as you kindly noticed, there ise the other side, the unwanded one, when scans catch parts of moving objects.

              For action scene and journalistic VR, I have an already veriffied method, with thousands of pano made, but using fish eye lens, like in this event.
              http://www.livepanoramas.com/event/2012-uefa-europa-league-final-hd-2/?pano=001a_y=16.96_p=25.83_f=65.00

              thanks again for the interes, really appreciate your reply.
              Dorin

              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sinclair <sinclair@...> wrote:
              >
              > On a slightly different topic but one involving the generation of 3D (stereo) panoramas, I have produced many by rotating a single HD video camera well off the NPP through 360 degrees. Recent experiments involve rotating a portrait oriented DSLR with a wide angle rectilinear lens well in front of the NPP while videoing in HD. A simple program processes the video by extracting two 1920 pixel lines (vertical) equidistant to the left and right of the optic axis. These L & R vertical image lines represent two instantaneous, horizontally disparate but parallel image planes. The separation distance ("pupil distance" for sereo) and verge angle are variabe. They are then merged together to form two V x 360 degree pans to be viewed in 3D. This is also a stitchless technique. Because it is a continuous process, the panoramas don't usually suffer from image boundary problems.
              >
              > A few colleagues have written later about this http://research.microsoft.com/apps/pubs/default.aspx?id=68819 called "Concentric Mosaics".
              >
              > I have also had good luck making a normal 2D pan using a fisheye lens rotating on the NPP, extracting the 1920 pixel line on the optic axis (using the "sweet spot" of the lens). The down side is the resulting pan is only 1920 pixels tall and you're stuck with whatever auto/fixed exposure you camera gives you. The up side is you have less problems w parallax, image boundary stitching and object movement. That last one is a two sided coin as objects that move are rendered smoothly but can be distorted. Also, leaving auto-exposure enabled gives you (some) ability to smoothly exposure compensate (over many stops) as you're rotating, much like the RoundShot pan cameras allow.
              >
              > Cheers,
              >
              > Mike
              >
            • panovrx
              about stereo panoramas -- there is a thread on the recent suit by Humaneyes against Sony for single camera sweep stereo capture technologies here
              Message 6 of 11 , Sep 8 3:16 PM
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                about stereo panoramas -- there is a thread on the recent suit by Humaneyes against Sony for single camera sweep stereo capture technologies here
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/photo-3d/message/89311

                about Concentric Panoramas -- this has always interested me -- the idea is you can sweep a video camera in a circle looking in a direction tangent to the circumference -- doing multiple records at different radii. From this set of data you can freely view (in stereo or mono) from virtual viewpoints in a horizontal annular zone around the centre of rotation. An important first step at generalising the qtvr concept.
                For a while there was a realtime viewer and sample scene you could try. Vertical coverage was not very good when I tried it -- maybe 7 or 8 years ago --
                Microsoft have been regularly patenting related concepts ---
                https://www.google.com/?tbm=pts#q=concentric+panoramas+microsoft&hl=en&safe=images&tbas=0&tbm=pts&source=lnt&tbs=sbd:1&sa=X&ei=9I8-ULnAD8zPmAXPl4CAAg&ved=0CCkQpwUoATgU&fp=1&biw=1920&bih=1083&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&cad=b

                Sony Streetview type patenting is getting very hectic lately btw eg.
                https://www.google.com/?tbm=pts#hl=en&safe=images&tbs=sbd:1&tbm=pts&sclient=psy-ab&q=panorama+sony&oq=panorama+sony&gs_l=serp.3..0j0i30l3.133593.137265.8.137789.23.18.5.0.0.0.300.3960.2-17j1.18.0...0.0...1c.dgbM87Yiwpg&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=3613f7d88d311b7e&biw=1920&bih=1083

                PeterM



                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "dorindxn" <Dorin@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Mike, thanks for posting, interesting informations, yes, videoing and rotating around NPP offset opens some ways, but only for static scenes as those two lines have a time gap, though can be situations when moving features can excape from scanning and so toremain with frozen backround, then, as you kindly noticed, there ise the other side, the unwanded one, when scans catch parts of moving objects.
                >
                > For action scene and journalistic VR, I have an already veriffied method, with thousands of pano made, but using fish eye lens, like in this event.
                > http://www.livepanoramas.com/event/2012-uefa-europa-league-final-hd-2/?pano=001a_y=16.96_p=25.83_f=65.00
                >
                > thanks again for the interes, really appreciate your reply.
                > Dorin
                >
                > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sinclair <sinclair@> wrote:
                > >
                > > On a slightly different topic but one involving the generation of 3D (stereo) panoramas, I have produced many by rotating a single HD video camera well off the NPP through 360 degrees. Recent experiments involve rotating a portrait oriented DSLR with a wide angle rectilinear lens well in front of the NPP while videoing in HD. A simple program processes the video by extracting two 1920 pixel lines (vertical) equidistant to the left and right of the optic axis. These L & R vertical image lines represent two instantaneous, horizontally disparate but parallel image planes. The separation distance ("pupil distance" for sereo) and verge angle are variabe. They are then merged together to form two V x 360 degree pans to be viewed in 3D. This is also a stitchless technique. Because it is a continuous process, the panoramas don't usually suffer from image boundary problems.
                > >
                > > A few colleagues have written later about this http://research.microsoft.com/apps/pubs/default.aspx?id=68819 called "Concentric Mosaics".
                > >
                > > I have also had good luck making a normal 2D pan using a fisheye lens rotating on the NPP, extracting the 1920 pixel line on the optic axis (using the "sweet spot" of the lens). The down side is the resulting pan is only 1920 pixels tall and you're stuck with whatever auto/fixed exposure you camera gives you. The up side is you have less problems w parallax, image boundary stitching and object movement. That last one is a two sided coin as objects that move are rendered smoothly but can be distorted. Also, leaving auto-exposure enabled gives you (some) ability to smoothly exposure compensate (over many stops) as you're rotating, much like the RoundShot pan cameras allow.
                > >
                > > Cheers,
                > >
                > > Mike
                > >
                >
              • dorindxn
                Hi Peter, sorry that I didn t specified that my 3D panos from around 2009 until present were with using of two cameras, for a 3D pano with a single camera I
                Message 7 of 11 , Sep 8 11:32 PM
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                  Hi Peter, sorry that I didn't specified that my 3D panos from around 2009 until present were with using of two cameras, for a 3D pano with a single camera I still use my method posted in several forums like here
                  http://www.3dphoto.net/forum/index.php/topic,1238.0.html

                  Thank you for the inters in this.

                  cheers,
                  Dorin

                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "panovrx" <mediavr@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > about stereo panoramas -- there is a thread on the recent suit by Humaneyes against Sony for single camera sweep stereo capture technologies here
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/photo-3d/message/89311
                  >
                  > about Concentric Panoramas -- this has always interested me -- the idea is you can sweep a video camera in a circle looking in a direction tangent to the circumference -- doing multiple records at different radii. From this set of data you can freely view (in stereo or mono) from virtual viewpoints in a horizontal annular zone around the centre of rotation. An important first step at generalising the qtvr concept.
                  > For a while there was a realtime viewer and sample scene you could try. Vertical coverage was not very good when I tried it -- maybe 7 or 8 years ago --
                  > Microsoft have been regularly patenting related concepts ---
                  > https://www.google.com/?tbm=pts#q=concentric+panoramas+microsoft&hl=en&safe=images&tbas=0&tbm=pts&source=lnt&tbs=sbd:1&sa=X&ei=9I8-ULnAD8zPmAXPl4CAAg&ved=0CCkQpwUoATgU&fp=1&biw=1920&bih=1083&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&cad=b
                  >
                  > Sony Streetview type patenting is getting very hectic lately btw eg.
                  > https://www.google.com/?tbm=pts#hl=en&safe=images&tbs=sbd:1&tbm=pts&sclient=psy-ab&q=panorama+sony&oq=panorama+sony&gs_l=serp.3..0j0i30l3.133593.137265.8.137789.23.18.5.0.0.0.300.3960.2-17j1.18.0...0.0...1c.dgbM87Yiwpg&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=3613f7d88d311b7e&biw=1920&bih=1083
                  >
                  > PeterM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "dorindxn" <Dorin@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi Mike, thanks for posting, interesting informations, yes, videoing and rotating around NPP offset opens some ways, but only for static scenes as those two lines have a time gap, though can be situations when moving features can excape from scanning and so toremain with frozen backround, then, as you kindly noticed, there ise the other side, the unwanded one, when scans catch parts of moving objects.
                  > >
                  > > For action scene and journalistic VR, I have an already veriffied method, with thousands of pano made, but using fish eye lens, like in this event.
                  > > http://www.livepanoramas.com/event/2012-uefa-europa-league-final-hd-2/?pano=001a_y=16.96_p=25.83_f=65.00
                  > >
                  > > thanks again for the interes, really appreciate your reply.
                  > > Dorin
                  > >
                  > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sinclair <sinclair@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > On a slightly different topic but one involving the generation of 3D (stereo) panoramas, I have produced many by rotating a single HD video camera well off the NPP through 360 degrees. Recent experiments involve rotating a portrait oriented DSLR with a wide angle rectilinear lens well in front of the NPP while videoing in HD. A simple program processes the video by extracting two 1920 pixel lines (vertical) equidistant to the left and right of the optic axis. These L & R vertical image lines represent two instantaneous, horizontally disparate but parallel image planes. The separation distance ("pupil distance" for sereo) and verge angle are variabe. They are then merged together to form two V x 360 degree pans to be viewed in 3D. This is also a stitchless technique. Because it is a continuous process, the panoramas don't usually suffer from image boundary problems.
                  > > >
                  > > > A few colleagues have written later about this http://research.microsoft.com/apps/pubs/default.aspx?id=68819 called "Concentric Mosaics".
                  > > >
                  > > > I have also had good luck making a normal 2D pan using a fisheye lens rotating on the NPP, extracting the 1920 pixel line on the optic axis (using the "sweet spot" of the lens). The down side is the resulting pan is only 1920 pixels tall and you're stuck with whatever auto/fixed exposure you camera gives you. The up side is you have less problems w parallax, image boundary stitching and object movement. That last one is a two sided coin as objects that move are rendered smoothly but can be distorted. Also, leaving auto-exposure enabled gives you (some) ability to smoothly exposure compensate (over many stops) as you're rotating, much like the RoundShot pan cameras allow.
                  > > >
                  > > > Cheers,
                  > > >
                  > > > Mike
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • dorindxn
                  Another one from today. Made from 2x93 photos taken with two cameras with 18-55mm @55mm, red-cyan anaglyph (red over the left eye). Is a large download (44mb)
                  Message 8 of 11 , Sep 9 7:11 AM
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                    Another one from today.
                    Made from 2x93 photos taken with two cameras with 18-55mm @55mm,
                    red-cyan anaglyph (red over the left eye).
                    Is a large download (44mb) !

                    http://www.livepanoramas.com/dorin/61c/Unirii3D-2/61c.html

                    thanks for the visit,
                    Dorin
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